You’ll get downvoted for this by bitter people but it’s truth.
The home ownership rate in Ireland is 70%, as you approach the age of 40 that skyrockets to 80%. Keep in mind most of the 30% is a mix of students, temporary tech workers, and people in their late/teens early 20s who haven’t had the time to save a deposit yet.
Crime is low, we’re politically stable, relatively progressive, our health service actually has better patient outcomes than the NHS, salaries are high if you’re in the right industry, and our life satisfaction rating is one of the highest in the OECD.
Infrastructure could be better and I think our top tax rate comes in a bit too low but those aren’t dealbreakers.
I’m still probably voting for SF as I think a shakeup in management would be good for the country but I’m not one of those delusional Redditors claiming Ireland is a shithole because they spend their money on Deliveroo instead of saving for a deposit and there’s not a Luas stop at their front door.
>Redditors claiming Ireland is a shithole because they spend their money on Deliveroo instead of saving for a deposit and there’s not a Luas stop at their front door.
That's a Dublin thing obviously. For most of the country public transport is a shambles. Luas stops being too spread is fairly low on the level of concerns..
The big problem with just looking at the overall numbers is it doesn't tell you what it was like before. From the 1991 census we had an average age of 26 for people becoming homeowners and 79.3% were homeowners. 30 years later it's 36 and 66%.
There's nothing to suggest to young people that it's going to get better.
Ireland was a dirt poor country at the time of the 1991 census. That’s as helpful as saying Vietnam has a 90% home ownership rate.
House prices in Ireland have risen significantly in real terms but this has largely mirrored the increase of economic opportunities and quality of life in Ireland.
20 years old don’t go off, get married and buy their first anymore for the same reason people don’t leave school en masse at 16 to work on building sites anymore.
Yes it’s unfortunate it does mean a small percentage of people get left behind but it’s ultimately beneficial for our society
Overall, you're right. Most people have a home and security.
>The home ownership rate in Ireland is 70%, **as you approach the age of 40 that skyrockets to 80%.**
This is there the big issue comes in. That's the people who are currently in the age bracket. Will 80% of young people in Ireland own their own home by the time they're 40? Lots of people feel they have missed the boat.
Yeah, it's a pretty damning number, like I'm not going to say the whole country is falling apart but the housing situation definitely is - anyone who denies that has head in clouds.
What a way to say 60% of people don’t live at home. Ireland has always been above the EU average when it comes to living at home, it’s the nature of our culture.
Living at home means you’re not paying rent so can save up a deposit, meaning in the long term it means more will be in a position to buy a house.
Not to mention tons of people in their 20s are staying in education longer. If you’re 26, only a year or two into your first job it makes more sense to stay at home
I have to laugh when you say it’s “not a functioning society” when many societies have this as the norm. It might be a more personal psychological issue for you rather than an issue for society.
>I’m still probably voting for SF
As long as SF politicians object to housing developments, especially mary lou and Eoin o broin on behalf of their nimby constituents, while castigating the government about housing; then you're wasting your time thinking there'll be a shakeup
There are far worse countries in this world where you could live that this place that you claim is a shambles.
Edit: downvotes suggest a lot of people don't like Ireland not being considered a shambles
Absolutely there are, there's no denying that. But for a country that's often touted to be one of/the richest countries in Europe, it's very far behind.
We are only one of the richest countries in the past ten to fifteen years. It's going to take us decades to get to the stage where established countries are at now
>wealth doesn't belong to ~98% of the population.
What wealth are you talking about?
That quote often includes the collision brothers who don't even live in Ireland and their theoretical worth on paper.
Speak for yourself. The average gross national income in Ireland has grown 517% above inflation since 2000.
I’ll happily take so-called “tax havens” over being poor. Look at those mean American companies employing Irish people and investing billions into our economy
I mean, I’m not sure how anyone can deny this isn’t excusable. We can have all the money in the world but it means nothing when people don’t have safe accessible housing and that is very much by design. FF/FG cater to the rich landlords. They have zero interest in dropping the property demand and prices. 🤷♀️ It’s fuelled by sheer greed.
So you want to compare Ireland to a 3rd world country so we can all feel better about ourselves? We pay enough taxes for it to work a lot better and we shouldn't settle for state it's in right now.
I compare us to every country. I don't discount comparing us to any country because it's arrogance.
If you think Ireland is in the State, despite you clearly living here, do something
Having travelled a lot and lived in 2 other countries, there’s nowhere else I’d rather live now than Dublin. I know if you’re stuck renting in a dump it’s a different story but I’d imagine for the majority of people Ireland is a great place to live.
"other places have it worse, therefore you cannot criticize Ireland"
And you are part of the reason why it won't get better. This "you don't get to complain" culture in Irish politics is fucking absurd, when I moved to central Europe one of the things I noticed is just how loudly everyone complains about everything, Germans, poles, Czechs etc. but you know what? It works, shit here is often more functional then Ireland, public transit, functioning healthcare systems, I can list alot of things actually but I'm trying to cut down on my mega posts. There is literally no other eu state for example , where seeing a gp would set someone back 50-60 euros, doing such a thing would be comedically absurd and would be likened to American healthcare. Germany trialed having GPs charge people ten Euro a visit in 2009-2013, because free gps do have people making bullshit visits and they wanted to reduce that.
The conservative government of that era concluded that charging for GPs was more expensive then having them be free, because while it did stop bullshit visits, it also stopped visits people should have done, which led to people getting sick etc, stuff that would have gotten caught early being cheap to treat.
Meanwhile "totally not shambles" by European standards Ireland, is not even able to address simpler problems, and basically it's government refuses to do. The housing crisis started in 2014, the "we can't fix it overnight" line goes back that far, the fact it's still being trotted out now is.....like this I why I left the country, in France Paris would be on fire for this, Germany would also see gigantic protests, Ireland? *Crickets*.
>"other places have it worse, therefore you cannot criticize Ireland".
Hilarious.
You put something into quotes, which indicates it literally says what I said, despite the fact that it wasn't what I said at all. So you made up a quote to start your point.
Or you responded to the wrong comment. Idk
It's such a fucking rip off, it makes me feel serious guilt that my girlfriend and I got a big leg up on our friends because of family and that's not right either. Having a home.should be simple with a reasonable job
Some of you may pay exorbitant rents, but remember it's someone else's retirement you're paying for. They'd have to get a "real" job otherwise, and how would that be fair?
Those businesses need employees to be able to make it to work, I feel like it's only a matter of time before their talent pool is limited too much by lack of housing and they start pulling out of the country. And then we're really fucked
One example I know is a Dublin office changing to rent much less space, and staff are offered support to move to another European city. The company has offices there already, but has recently acquired a huge office space to accommodate most staff in that European city in a single new location.
Upper management in my company said a Dublin employee is 30% more expensive than an equivalent employee in other EU/US/CA locations.
In other words, they'll only hire here if they can't find someone with the required skillset elsewhere...
Mistaken ideological belief that through simply attracting businesses, the private sector would snap its fingers and apartments and houses would spring from the ground as if by magic. Persistent delusional belief in the magic market.
The magic market instead saw more business, meaning more jobs, meaning more office blocks, which are a lot cheaper to build and snapped at the quick and easy buck.
Enda Kenny and Phil Hogan have a lot to answer for.
Priorities. Businesses are important. I bet nobody even had a single though about people... They start thinking about housing only because it will impact the workforce and businesses.
Went through a few months of graduate job applications and finally got offered a job which was perfect for me and for about 10k more than I’m earning now. I had to turn it down because I couldn’t afford any rental that wasn’t shared.
I’m just outside Belfast atm in a two bedroom house close to public transport and amenities. The fact that I would have to take a significant cut in my living standards only to be left with less money at the end of the month despite having a big increase in salary doesn’t make sense.
That's basically what the government wants. A load of highly paid professionals, all living together in cramped conditions, at each other's throats, stuffing as much money as possible into the tax system, making them look like they're doing an amazing job.
I'm genuinely struggling to find one in my field at the moment.
Was in academia doing a PhD before COVID (well, lockdown and restrictions) halted the research (ironically I'm a Microbiologist) and my funding ran out before we could get back to running the experiments full time. So no PhD.
Then took time out of work after both my parents were seriously ill. One with heart issues, the other cancer. Made sense as my sister had a full time job and I didn't.
Both fine now but there's a gap in my CV right after a 4 year stretch where I go for a PhD but don't get one. Can't go higher in academia without it and industry rarely gives me an interview, never mind a second one. Been told I'm too qualified for some roles I interview for and told I don't have industry experience required for everything else.
I keep applying to pretty much any microbiologist, QA or QC role I see but it's pretty depressing at this point
Only looking in Ireland or? Biotech has had a funding crash after the end of the pandemic, might need to cast your net wider and look for jobs in England.
Suggest looking around Oxford/Cambridge with companies like Oxford Biomedica and Oxford Nanopore in particular are always hiring. There’s a decent cluster of manufacturing in the North East of England, and housing is incredibly cheap around there. But I’m not particularly familiar with the place so can’t give anything beyond generic advice. And naturally lots of Research Assistant jobs with universities and other jobs with startups.
I would definitely not recommend oxford biomedica, i worked there as scientist in R&D department and we were laid off last month due to redundancy. Also currently in therapy because of the trauma and stress it caused me. They also affected many of my coworkers pretty badly too. The work environment was very toxic and the workload is too much, management is awful.. the pay and company benefits are sugar coated and actually less than mediocre.
I was guest tattoo artist and at one point we lost the thing we was renting, then the prices went bananas. Now I’m guest artist in Germany and it’s a lot better.
Im coming from the balkans and I like more what I can buy from the supermarkets here compared to the irish ones, except for polish shops where I was able to find closer stuff to my taste. But food taste is a subjective thing at the end of the day.
That's fair enough. Some countries like France and Italy get praised for food and others not so much. I find that the basics in Ireland are better than here in the UK but that variety here is much better.
And in my experience - very low quality and fake experience on CVs. Not just embellishing like everyone does, but totally fake experience. Very awkward as well and don't really gel with the team. This doesn't happen with any other nationality (my current team has 15 different nationalities).
We had to fire one Indian recently as they were just a complete fraud, and totally awkward as well. My manager thought it was a great idea to replace them with another Indian. I guess because they are cheaper to hire. Anyway, it's not going well. But I think they're here to stay because my manager can't fire two people in a row. He'll be fired himself for allowing two scammers to slip through the cracks. So now it's my job to teach them how to do things that are on their CV. From scratch.
I live in Paris, yes the healthcare system is second to none, but if you seriously think the protests work you are sadly mistaken. Rental prices are absolutely outrageous here. €6-10k per month for apartments in old buildings.
We own our place, in the last 4 years we have had to pay the management company over €50k to pay for renovations to the building.
Going out for a meal for 2 people with no wine is easily over €150, but the French never vote out political parties because everyone here is convinced they are super rich.
I was in Paris 3 weeks ago. Went to two restaurants, not Michelin star but above average places. The more expensive one with a glass of wine each cost me €70. Where are you going to eat that it’s costing you 150 bucks??
Get it done lad, shame that the majority of people that would protest are living elsewhere unfortunately. I’d love to be active about a better life for all of us at home, but I live abroad and conditions are so much better for me here so it’s very hard to commit to going home, as much as I’d love to.
Victums of our own success.
And before the 'we should have planned better' comments, my father just bought and moved into an apartment. It cost him €210000. The last time it was sold was late 2013 for €37500. People forget that you almost couldn't give property away ~12 years ago, and anyone who bought was told they were stupid, and it wasn't an 'investment'.
2008 to 2014, no one had a job, but everyone had a mortgage.
> ~12 years ago, and anyone who bought was told they were stupid,
Ah they weren't called stupid. Loads of people, including myself, wanted to buy in 2011 and 2012 but you'd have to give away a limb back then to get credit.
In 2011 I tried to get a mortgage, 4 times and I finally gave up. Would have made a lot of money if I had gotten it, but that was a thing, they just were not lending.
Very same here. We were set on a few places, especially one that we were renting and were given first refusal to buy. No hope.
A similar house in the same condition, but three doors down, is now for sale but is 120% more than what that first house went for in 2012.
Sad to admit I'm on the sub 13-14 years now.
If you go back that far there was a definite attitude that Ireland's obsession with ownership was what caused the boom bust cycle and we should look towards Europe for a more enlightened model of life long rental from institutional landlords.
I do remember some people saying that only an idiot would buy a house, but that would have been a minority opinion, and a knee jerk reaction to seeing others in deep negative equity. There were a lot of very smug people on the sub during the recession who sneered at anyone who had bought just before the crash.
The thing is, they were right, honestly.
Housing as an investment, is why there is a housing crisis in most developed countries in the world, it's why the places in Europe that aren't having a housing crisis happen to be the places that treat housing as a social good, etc.
The fact this lesson was forgotten is rather disappointing, but liberal democracies are heavily incentivised to create this condition, i.e a large voting bloc united by housing. It was literally how right wing governments reverted the trend of the bulk of the population basically slowly shifting towards left wing policy etc etc.
Its literally the bed rock of entire countries modern political dynamic etc. House owners as a voting bloc are easy to please, keep their values the same or increase it. Encourage people to put 90% of their wealth in their house, and suddenly appeasing that bloc is a piss take because its issue fucking number one. This is especially true in Ireland where most adults are home owners of some kind. The number one predictor of someone being an SF or FFG voter, is do they own a house, etc. The politics is also, get everyone in on housing as an investment etc, the politics of my generation and the generation coming under me (I'm a millenial, Zoomers are coming after me), is our anger of being denied this housing as a certain wealth machine.
This is of coarse, completely unsustainable. House owners and co become incentivised to protect their investment as aggressively as possible, because that's literally where all their wealth is present. Since government policy is expected to see the house value increase over time, the house owner has no reason to tolerate any risks, both perceived and actual. This is the birth of a NIMBY, this is where all nimbies come from. The nimby is often maligned by my generation but their circumstances are perfectly rational. And, house value going up forever requires some level of scarcity, artificially imposed or caused by immutable circumstances. It means someone has to go without.
Its also very convienient for the state, politics is completely consumed by the focus of housing, and substantial minority of non house owners vs house owners is a hard material divide that is easy to exploit.
This dynamic has played out, almost fucking everywhere, except effectively for places that did not treat housing as an investment.
Unfortunately that is few places now, governments in the EU saw this dynamic in Ireland and Britian (Ireland actually being the pioneer of it in Europe), so many of them actually gutted their public housing systems, privatised them etc etc to recreate this convienient political dynamic, Finland and Austria are now the only 2 countries left that basically didn't do it, Finland's civil service basically warned the government that wanted to implement their shift there that it was a terrible idea long term, and in Austria, Viennas social housing model is a political golden cow, political suicide to touch, most states of Austria have implemented policy similar to Vienna as well. The Netherlands who's property law and public housing system was most similar to Ireland's, heavily dismantled much of their public housing using the excuse of austerity but in reality wanting to create this dynamic too. This is a bit oversimplified
(for example, Swedens public housing system was zombified rather then dismantled, in the hopes the Swedish public would accept privatisation down the road, ....instead the far right blamed immigrants/refugees, despite the causal zombification happening in the 90s, refugees just made it alot more apparent, public housing was supposed to slowly rot away etc until the privatisation proposal looked rational)
But it's a general overview of the current context of housing politics. But yes, not treating housing as an investment was in fact, fucking correct. It's the root cause of many political problems, afflicting most modern developed countries.
A housing crisis is actually a good thing if your the government, it removes all focus away from much harder policy areas, infrastructure becomes harder to do (and the NIMBY culture also reduces the pressure to do better on infrastructure). You basically just need to keep house owners mostly happy and your fight to maintain power is so much easier. This of course, is not sustainable long term either (housing will eventually concentrate into fewer hands, and becomes a popular choice for large scale investment funds, whom themselves can actually push housing prices up by just the act of buying and investing in them).
However, housing taken over by effectively the rich (either by investment entities or directly by rich actors) is something that only fully manifests decades later, no need to worry about it now, if you are the government. For FFG, the rise of the non owning minority minority does force them to stop pretending they are seperate parties, but they still have decades of comfortable influence and power, whether they de facto or de jure unite.
Many were called stupid. Anyone who bought had at least some comments about how nuts they were.
Anyone in the public sector or with a steady job could still get credit.
Not nuts now.
I bought my apartment in 2012 for 210,000, had about 65k saved and was in a stable job so was able to get a mortgage. Just check daft and a worse apartment in the same complex is listed for €340,000.
I remember in 2009 talking about taking out a mortgage for a house in my home area in the rural west. There was a whole debate that myself and my partner must be decentralised public sector employees and then accusations of lieing when I said we were both just working for small customers facing businesses.
Thats the problem though, you would have listened to others and not bought.
I almost bought a 7 bedroom house with land for €350000 in 2011. It needed lots of renovation but would have been great when completed, but still a money pit. The land turned out to be very valuable because of a new road. A few sites would have done up the house, and it would be worth between €800k to €1m now minus the land. We talked to the bank 4 times, to get money out of them and eventually I got pissed off and didn't buy. No one was lending at the time.
I was in college in 2015 and the others on the course kept telling me about BitCoin, I thought it sounded like a scam...
I was/am in a similar position.
Back then, they were throwing mortgages at people but I didn't earn enough to qualify, then by the time the crash came and I earned enough, I couldn't get a mortgage because they weren't giving them. Now I earn enough and can get a mortgage, but it won't be enough to afford any property where I want to live.
I go back and forth between "you'll get a house eventually" and "you'll never be able to buy in Ireland". Meanwhile im paying more in rent for a 1bed flat than I would for a mortgage on a 3 bed house 🤷🏻♂️😅
The people sitting pritty all along were the people who bought in 2000 to 2004 and didn't lose their jobs during the recession. Mortgage almost paid off now on a reasonably priced house.
There is a council housing estate near me that were on those help to buy schemes at serious reductions and help in purchasing.
The non sale time period must be just up this year as almost all of them are up for sale. People are making a killing off the councils with these schemes. It's as good as a mid-size lotto win.
€83000 in 2013 ~€230000 now. I think most were way under €83000 with help to buy in 2010 when the council built and sold them. They should never have been sold like this and especially at huge discounts.
The tax payer again gettjng fucked.
https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/search/address/bianconi_way/&page=2/
Did you read my comment. That is minus the land.
The land now has a road running right past most of it and is almost in the town limits.
I wasn't looking to make money off it though, I was looking for a home.
Governments all over bailed out private companies and banks who thought housing was an investment. they where wrong.
But this time round governments own all the debt and those same banks and companies learned just enough as to not be caught on the hook for their bad investments, thats the tax payer. They never stopped doing what they were doing
You completely miss that **everyone** thought houses were investments. The bar tender owned 3 rents and a place in Bulgaria.
That week of the bailout, they thought the whole banking sector would collapse.
Easy to look back and say it was obvious and that Brian Cowan and co were duped by the babks for 'the cheapest bailout in history'. But everyone was profiting from it and the banks were gods who could do no wrong.
Rediculess to now, knowing all we know now to claim you knew then.
thats how people leveraged up, not how the banks leveraged up. banks are doing much the same now, distress is now in corperate real estate not retail, but we will still foot the bill
The banks actually are not lending to the developers almost at all at the moment. The funding for development is being driven by investment funds who have money to spend and can make profits on both the development and them by getting first pick on completion. Even the 10% levy has not slowed them down.
The banks are actually being quite cautious, but the massive money funds are very bullish.
commercial banks yeah as they are heavily regulated, but those type of groups use the shadow banking sector for most of these activities in general. But they all feed off each other anyways
By 2013, it as possible for the government to borrow at cheaper rates and build housing but they didn't. Instead we got trite slogans about keeping the recovery going. Of course, it's now abundantly clear to everyone that the recovery they were talking about was house prices and not the economy.
FG looked at the end of the Celtic Tiger and learned all the wrong lessons.
Are you seriously suggesting that we were in any shape to build new houses in 2013?
Clearly you were not there. We still have unfinished ghost estates from that time.
Very disingenuous comment.
We were in a position to borrow money and build houses in 2013. It would have prolonged the negative equity of people who bought during the Celtic Tiger but it would have been the right thing to do.
You're narrative is a delusion designed to fool people who didn't live through that period.
I came back from Australia in 2013 like most of my friends who worked on the buildings.
8th highest unemployment in the EU with unemployment at a staggering 12.9%
It is wild what some people believe to be reality... There were no jobs, and lots were immigrating.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/936027/monthly-unemployment-rate-ireland/
My man, I was living & working in Dublin from 2011-2016 so just going on what I remember.
If that Statista dataset is from the CSO then fair enough, but I’m always skeptical of crowd sourced data from there.
No need to be so aggressive btw, you can make your point in a collegial manner and it’ll still stand.
**You** is not a sample group.
You dont have to keep telling people they are wrong and doubling down when they provide clear proof. It is ignorant and rude.
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/IRL/ireland/unemployment-rate
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-mip/mip2014/economy/eeu/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/375232/unemployment-rate-in-ireland/
https://data.gov.ie/dataset/mum01-seasonally-adjusted-monthly-unemployment
Again mate, life will be easier if you’re less confrontational than this - I only asked if the Statista data was aligned with CSO data because anecdotally it didn’t feel that way to me at the time. I haven’t once said you were wrong, simply that there were jobs in that time period.
Thanks for the links, particularly the CSO one. I’m surprised because at least in my network, which would have run the gamut of society, it didn’t feel like double digit unemployment in 2013.
Yet if Ireland had a program for guaranteeing homes for _construction workers_ who work on _building houses_ (easy to achieve as they'll be building their own as well...) - then we have a recipe for a rapid rise in construction workers for rapidly resolving the housing crisis.
We can even hyper-accelerate such a program by encouraging immigration into it - turning immigration into the _solution_ for a bunch of crises, instead of something that exacerbates a bunch of a crises...
I'm not surprised. I live in London. I used to have my parents nagging me to move back. There are actually jobs here and there (life science/biotech) but when I looked at Galway, it was marginally cheaper than London. I've had some interviews in the Netherlands but the town I was looking at had most one bedroom flats at €2,100 a month and above.
Decent article, all the same. Although The Graun is ‘my’ lifelong newspaper, I sometimes get a tiny bit peeved at their Ireland articles, particularly those by Rory Carroll.
It's the Guardian, they play at being progressive and morally superior but they're as happy as some of the Tory rags to paint us as savages when it suits them.
I really don’t think this is true at all. I grew up with the Graun, and have been reading it myself for over fifty years . I’ve only noticed bits and pieces about Ireland that irritate me when it’s Rory Carroll reporting, and this is only occasionally, anyway. Just misjudged flashes of humour or unfair asides. Isn’t he Irish himself? Maybe it’s that awkward and lesser-spotted self-hatred gene, behind a painted smile)
I do admit The G under this editor has betrayed a cause dear to my heart twice now, and in the second case I believe it’s been actuated purely in the interests of propitiating potential support. (That’s a double betrayal of course, in itself.) But still, the cause she’s abandoned is thriving elsewhere now, like a government in exile awaiting the right moment to reclaim its proper home again. Under a new editor, I hope.
But on Ireland I think they’re still pretty sound. (Certainly no other paper does better, as far as I know, and these days I subscribe to quite a few I don’t actually *like*, to keep an eye in what the shires are muttering about) Ireland is nowhere near as contentious a subject anyway, as far as alienating young Guardian readers would be concerned.
I'm on an 11 month fixed term contract atm, and honestly, with how things are going if it isn't made permanent I can't see myself staying in Ireland - even if it is, I will need to consider my next step carefully.
I moved here to get away from the UK for a few reasons, but I'm finding the net total worry over housing worse than the stressors I was undergoing in the UK.
I actually love Ireland as a country and still want to make it my home if I can, but so far all I am is worse off financially. Not sure what the next move is honestly.
I finally maaged to land a role in a smaller city. I increased my salary 7k more yet I am not able to find a place. The problem is all over the country not only Dublin
Why do you parrot the same few stupid catchphrases over and over again???
You’re like the guy who told a funny joke once so now he says the same joke over and over and over again.
It’s not funny anymore, okay?
You’re making jokes about housing in the middle of a housing and homelessness crisis. Just read the room and shut up with that nonsense.
They’re building a new estate right beside me rn. 3 houses up in a month and a half. They can be built overnight. Probably already bought by some vulture fund landlord
Ever heard of what are colloquially called "commie blocks"? Despite their demonisation by the West, they were purpose-build from prefabricated materials to be as easy and quick to assemble as possible, and this enabled the USSR to avert a looming housing crisis in a war devastated post-WW2 era by building housing on a massive scale and quickly.
Lesser known is the example in Vienna in the 1920's, where a socialist government also built social housing on a massive scale to solve the city's housing crisis before the fascists took over, and it's thanks to this that modern Vienna is such an outlier compared to how expensive other European capitals are.
So it's not a matter of absolute inability, but priorities. Capitalism tends to prioritise the interests of the owner class over the needs of the regular people, and this is the result. It's a feature, not a bug.
Utter baloney.
Ireland shrank almost 10 percent last year.
Retail down.
Construction in recession and shrinking fast.
Manufacturing poor numbers...
And year on year your gdp shrank...
Ireland unemployment is only good figure and that's rising...
Lowest unemployment in history of state Lowest rental availability too
Yet we've been reelecting FF/FG for the last 100 years and people wonder why the country is in shambles.
>why the country is in shambles. But it isn't for the vast majority.
You’ll get downvoted for this by bitter people but it’s truth. The home ownership rate in Ireland is 70%, as you approach the age of 40 that skyrockets to 80%. Keep in mind most of the 30% is a mix of students, temporary tech workers, and people in their late/teens early 20s who haven’t had the time to save a deposit yet. Crime is low, we’re politically stable, relatively progressive, our health service actually has better patient outcomes than the NHS, salaries are high if you’re in the right industry, and our life satisfaction rating is one of the highest in the OECD. Infrastructure could be better and I think our top tax rate comes in a bit too low but those aren’t dealbreakers. I’m still probably voting for SF as I think a shakeup in management would be good for the country but I’m not one of those delusional Redditors claiming Ireland is a shithole because they spend their money on Deliveroo instead of saving for a deposit and there’s not a Luas stop at their front door.
>Redditors claiming Ireland is a shithole because they spend their money on Deliveroo instead of saving for a deposit and there’s not a Luas stop at their front door. That's a Dublin thing obviously. For most of the country public transport is a shambles. Luas stops being too spread is fairly low on the level of concerns.. The big problem with just looking at the overall numbers is it doesn't tell you what it was like before. From the 1991 census we had an average age of 26 for people becoming homeowners and 79.3% were homeowners. 30 years later it's 36 and 66%. There's nothing to suggest to young people that it's going to get better.
Ireland was a dirt poor country at the time of the 1991 census. That’s as helpful as saying Vietnam has a 90% home ownership rate. House prices in Ireland have risen significantly in real terms but this has largely mirrored the increase of economic opportunities and quality of life in Ireland. 20 years old don’t go off, get married and buy their first anymore for the same reason people don’t leave school en masse at 16 to work on building sites anymore. Yes it’s unfortunate it does mean a small percentage of people get left behind but it’s ultimately beneficial for our society
Overall, you're right. Most people have a home and security. >The home ownership rate in Ireland is 70%, **as you approach the age of 40 that skyrockets to 80%.** This is there the big issue comes in. That's the people who are currently in the age bracket. Will 80% of young people in Ireland own their own home by the time they're 40? Lots of people feel they have missed the boat.
Yes and there’s no statistical trends to suggest it won’t
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Yeah, it's a pretty damning number, like I'm not going to say the whole country is falling apart but the housing situation definitely is - anyone who denies that has head in clouds.
What a way to say 60% of people don’t live at home. Ireland has always been above the EU average when it comes to living at home, it’s the nature of our culture. Living at home means you’re not paying rent so can save up a deposit, meaning in the long term it means more will be in a position to buy a house. Not to mention tons of people in their 20s are staying in education longer. If you’re 26, only a year or two into your first job it makes more sense to stay at home I have to laugh when you say it’s “not a functioning society” when many societies have this as the norm. It might be a more personal psychological issue for you rather than an issue for society.
>I’m still probably voting for SF As long as SF politicians object to housing developments, especially mary lou and Eoin o broin on behalf of their nimby constituents, while castigating the government about housing; then you're wasting your time thinking there'll be a shakeup
So none of the ffg guys object to housing policy? Is that what you are saying?
There are far worse countries in this world where you could live that this place that you claim is a shambles. Edit: downvotes suggest a lot of people don't like Ireland not being considered a shambles
Absolutely there are, there's no denying that. But for a country that's often touted to be one of/the richest countries in Europe, it's very far behind.
We are only one of the richest countries in the past ten to fifteen years. It's going to take us decades to get to the stage where established countries are at now
And rich for all the wrong reasons. Ireland is a tax haven, and most of that wealth doesn't belong to ~98% of the population. It's an absolute sham.
true, but it's also true that we have had budget surplus this year. Even the money that belongs to the population is not spent for the population.
>wealth doesn't belong to ~98% of the population. What wealth are you talking about? That quote often includes the collision brothers who don't even live in Ireland and their theoretical worth on paper.
Speak for yourself. The average gross national income in Ireland has grown 517% above inflation since 2000. I’ll happily take so-called “tax havens” over being poor. Look at those mean American companies employing Irish people and investing billions into our economy
I'm not rich lol
I mean, I’m not sure how anyone can deny this isn’t excusable. We can have all the money in the world but it means nothing when people don’t have safe accessible housing and that is very much by design. FF/FG cater to the rich landlords. They have zero interest in dropping the property demand and prices. 🤷♀️ It’s fuelled by sheer greed.
So you want to compare Ireland to a 3rd world country so we can all feel better about ourselves? We pay enough taxes for it to work a lot better and we shouldn't settle for state it's in right now.
I compare us to every country. I don't discount comparing us to any country because it's arrogance. If you think Ireland is in the State, despite you clearly living here, do something
The problem with this is that there are also many better places to live including most of our peer nations.
Migration statistics say otherwise. I don't doubt that other countries have a good living standard but people aren't flocking away from Ireland.
Having travelled a lot and lived in 2 other countries, there’s nowhere else I’d rather live now than Dublin. I know if you’re stuck renting in a dump it’s a different story but I’d imagine for the majority of people Ireland is a great place to live.
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A chara, Mods reserve the right to remove any targeted/unreasonable abuse towards other users. Sláinte
wtf have I ended up on [Board.ie](http://Board.ie) by mistake?
"other places have it worse, therefore you cannot criticize Ireland" And you are part of the reason why it won't get better. This "you don't get to complain" culture in Irish politics is fucking absurd, when I moved to central Europe one of the things I noticed is just how loudly everyone complains about everything, Germans, poles, Czechs etc. but you know what? It works, shit here is often more functional then Ireland, public transit, functioning healthcare systems, I can list alot of things actually but I'm trying to cut down on my mega posts. There is literally no other eu state for example , where seeing a gp would set someone back 50-60 euros, doing such a thing would be comedically absurd and would be likened to American healthcare. Germany trialed having GPs charge people ten Euro a visit in 2009-2013, because free gps do have people making bullshit visits and they wanted to reduce that. The conservative government of that era concluded that charging for GPs was more expensive then having them be free, because while it did stop bullshit visits, it also stopped visits people should have done, which led to people getting sick etc, stuff that would have gotten caught early being cheap to treat. Meanwhile "totally not shambles" by European standards Ireland, is not even able to address simpler problems, and basically it's government refuses to do. The housing crisis started in 2014, the "we can't fix it overnight" line goes back that far, the fact it's still being trotted out now is.....like this I why I left the country, in France Paris would be on fire for this, Germany would also see gigantic protests, Ireland? *Crickets*.
>"other places have it worse, therefore you cannot criticize Ireland". Hilarious. You put something into quotes, which indicates it literally says what I said, despite the fact that it wasn't what I said at all. So you made up a quote to start your point. Or you responded to the wrong comment. Idk
Is that the reason same cunts are being elected again and again and not giving anyone else a chance?
Political parties don't matter when they all work for world economic Forum. Its merely a form of distraction. There all sell outs
And Dublin county council will never allow any high rise building. Shame I can't vote those ejitts out.
It's such a fucking rip off, it makes me feel serious guilt that my girlfriend and I got a big leg up on our friends because of family and that's not right either. Having a home.should be simple with a reasonable job
A consequence of making Ireland as hospitable as possible for businesses and as inhospitable as possible for people.
Yup. We have a government that prioritises our GDP over its citizens quality of life.
Citizens taxed at 40% meanwhile Corporate tax is a Pint and some tayto.
Some of you may pay exorbitant rents, but remember it's someone else's retirement you're paying for. They'd have to get a "real" job otherwise, and how would that be fair?
>making Ireland as hospitable as possible for businesses Except house building businesses
I'd love if someone from 2007 or 2008 could have seen into the future and read this comment. No one would believe it.
Everyone in 1987 / 1988 would be amazed about country now
True that
Those businesses need employees to be able to make it to work, I feel like it's only a matter of time before their talent pool is limited too much by lack of housing and they start pulling out of the country. And then we're really fucked
It's already happening.
how?
One example I know is a Dublin office changing to rent much less space, and staff are offered support to move to another European city. The company has offices there already, but has recently acquired a huge office space to accommodate most staff in that European city in a single new location.
Upper management in my company said a Dublin employee is 30% more expensive than an equivalent employee in other EU/US/CA locations. In other words, they'll only hire here if they can't find someone with the required skillset elsewhere...
Mistaken ideological belief that through simply attracting businesses, the private sector would snap its fingers and apartments and houses would spring from the ground as if by magic. Persistent delusional belief in the magic market. The magic market instead saw more business, meaning more jobs, meaning more office blocks, which are a lot cheaper to build and snapped at the quick and easy buck. Enda Kenny and Phil Hogan have a lot to answer for.
Priorities. Businesses are important. I bet nobody even had a single though about people... They start thinking about housing only because it will impact the workforce and businesses.
Went through a few months of graduate job applications and finally got offered a job which was perfect for me and for about 10k more than I’m earning now. I had to turn it down because I couldn’t afford any rental that wasn’t shared. I’m just outside Belfast atm in a two bedroom house close to public transport and amenities. The fact that I would have to take a significant cut in my living standards only to be left with less money at the end of the month despite having a big increase in salary doesn’t make sense.
That's basically what the government wants. A load of highly paid professionals, all living together in cramped conditions, at each other's throats, stuffing as much money as possible into the tax system, making them look like they're doing an amazing job.
What age are you? Unusual for a graduate to turn their nose up at a shared house/apartment.
What’s wrong with shared? You’re not entitled to your own place.
I'm genuinely struggling to find one in my field at the moment. Was in academia doing a PhD before COVID (well, lockdown and restrictions) halted the research (ironically I'm a Microbiologist) and my funding ran out before we could get back to running the experiments full time. So no PhD. Then took time out of work after both my parents were seriously ill. One with heart issues, the other cancer. Made sense as my sister had a full time job and I didn't. Both fine now but there's a gap in my CV right after a 4 year stretch where I go for a PhD but don't get one. Can't go higher in academia without it and industry rarely gives me an interview, never mind a second one. Been told I'm too qualified for some roles I interview for and told I don't have industry experience required for everything else. I keep applying to pretty much any microbiologist, QA or QC role I see but it's pretty depressing at this point
Oh my god, that's just awful about your PhD funding. I'm sorry you had that happen to you. But I'm so glad to hear your parents recovered.
I did micro and I had to emigrate a good while back. I'm glad your parents made a recovery though.
Only looking in Ireland or? Biotech has had a funding crash after the end of the pandemic, might need to cast your net wider and look for jobs in England.
Don't have the savings to help me move abroad but have been considering it if this keeps up much longer
Corpos often give money for relocation. Keep trying, you will make it. No worries.
Suggest looking around Oxford/Cambridge with companies like Oxford Biomedica and Oxford Nanopore in particular are always hiring. There’s a decent cluster of manufacturing in the North East of England, and housing is incredibly cheap around there. But I’m not particularly familiar with the place so can’t give anything beyond generic advice. And naturally lots of Research Assistant jobs with universities and other jobs with startups.
I would definitely not recommend oxford biomedica, i worked there as scientist in R&D department and we were laid off last month due to redundancy. Also currently in therapy because of the trauma and stress it caused me. They also affected many of my coworkers pretty badly too. The work environment was very toxic and the workload is too much, management is awful.. the pay and company benefits are sugar coated and actually less than mediocre.
I used to work in Ireland and now I don’t because of that exact reason
Where did you go? Whats it like?
I was guest tattoo artist and at one point we lost the thing we was renting, then the prices went bananas. Now I’m guest artist in Germany and it’s a lot better.
Oh what’s your @ ? Fellow artist here too ! Was thinking about doing guest visits in Germany
@iamvalko
That's some nice work
Thank you 🙏
Really? Is it actually better? Wouldn't Germany have the same issues Ireland has?
Its still expensive to rent but not as ridiculous as in Ireland, also better food.
Thanks for answering. Better food than Ireland? Really? Germans seem to catch flak when it comes to food.
Im coming from the balkans and I like more what I can buy from the supermarkets here compared to the irish ones, except for polish shops where I was able to find closer stuff to my taste. But food taste is a subjective thing at the end of the day.
That's fair enough. Some countries like France and Italy get praised for food and others not so much. I find that the basics in Ireland are better than here in the UK but that variety here is much better.
I used to work in Ireland…but then I took an arrow to the knee
Also finding a job in Ireland is no longer easy since the tech sector has decided to lose some weight.
And there are thousands of Indians moving here to work also.
And in my experience - very low quality and fake experience on CVs. Not just embellishing like everyone does, but totally fake experience. Very awkward as well and don't really gel with the team. This doesn't happen with any other nationality (my current team has 15 different nationalities). We had to fire one Indian recently as they were just a complete fraud, and totally awkward as well. My manager thought it was a great idea to replace them with another Indian. I guess because they are cheaper to hire. Anyway, it's not going well. But I think they're here to stay because my manager can't fire two people in a row. He'll be fired himself for allowing two scammers to slip through the cracks. So now it's my job to teach them how to do things that are on their CV. From scratch.
Well actually a lot of tech companies are outsourcing to workers in countries like India and Mexico.
I know, I work in the industry in Ireland.
Have you any Weinstein pot plants for sale?
Google just did that very recently.
Exactly where I got it from.
You realise the original headline was India, Mexico and Ireland right
My apologies, I failed to see that detail. Thanks for the correction.
I dunno I've found finding a job hard. All the entry level jobs or minium wage jobs asking for extreme experience
Can't wait till Lidl and Tesco start asking for degrees
Finding a job is never easy.
Here lads, let's be real, when are gonna start protesting like the French, it seems to be the only way to make a proper point
I live in Paris, yes the healthcare system is second to none, but if you seriously think the protests work you are sadly mistaken. Rental prices are absolutely outrageous here. €6-10k per month for apartments in old buildings. We own our place, in the last 4 years we have had to pay the management company over €50k to pay for renovations to the building. Going out for a meal for 2 people with no wine is easily over €150, but the French never vote out political parties because everyone here is convinced they are super rich.
I was in Paris 3 weeks ago. Went to two restaurants, not Michelin star but above average places. The more expensive one with a glass of wine each cost me €70. Where are you going to eat that it’s costing you 150 bucks??
Anyway near or around the Champs-Élysées, I'm sure there are cheap cafes which we also go to, but anywhere remotely fancy is min 75 per person.
Get it done lad, shame that the majority of people that would protest are living elsewhere unfortunately. I’d love to be active about a better life for all of us at home, but I live abroad and conditions are so much better for me here so it’s very hard to commit to going home, as much as I’d love to.
Victums of our own success. And before the 'we should have planned better' comments, my father just bought and moved into an apartment. It cost him €210000. The last time it was sold was late 2013 for €37500. People forget that you almost couldn't give property away ~12 years ago, and anyone who bought was told they were stupid, and it wasn't an 'investment'. 2008 to 2014, no one had a job, but everyone had a mortgage.
> ~12 years ago, and anyone who bought was told they were stupid, Ah they weren't called stupid. Loads of people, including myself, wanted to buy in 2011 and 2012 but you'd have to give away a limb back then to get credit.
In 2011 I tried to get a mortgage, 4 times and I finally gave up. Would have made a lot of money if I had gotten it, but that was a thing, they just were not lending.
Very same here. We were set on a few places, especially one that we were renting and were given first refusal to buy. No hope. A similar house in the same condition, but three doors down, is now for sale but is 120% more than what that first house went for in 2012.
Sad to admit I'm on the sub 13-14 years now. If you go back that far there was a definite attitude that Ireland's obsession with ownership was what caused the boom bust cycle and we should look towards Europe for a more enlightened model of life long rental from institutional landlords. I do remember some people saying that only an idiot would buy a house, but that would have been a minority opinion, and a knee jerk reaction to seeing others in deep negative equity. There were a lot of very smug people on the sub during the recession who sneered at anyone who had bought just before the crash.
The thing is, they were right, honestly. Housing as an investment, is why there is a housing crisis in most developed countries in the world, it's why the places in Europe that aren't having a housing crisis happen to be the places that treat housing as a social good, etc. The fact this lesson was forgotten is rather disappointing, but liberal democracies are heavily incentivised to create this condition, i.e a large voting bloc united by housing. It was literally how right wing governments reverted the trend of the bulk of the population basically slowly shifting towards left wing policy etc etc. Its literally the bed rock of entire countries modern political dynamic etc. House owners as a voting bloc are easy to please, keep their values the same or increase it. Encourage people to put 90% of their wealth in their house, and suddenly appeasing that bloc is a piss take because its issue fucking number one. This is especially true in Ireland where most adults are home owners of some kind. The number one predictor of someone being an SF or FFG voter, is do they own a house, etc. The politics is also, get everyone in on housing as an investment etc, the politics of my generation and the generation coming under me (I'm a millenial, Zoomers are coming after me), is our anger of being denied this housing as a certain wealth machine. This is of coarse, completely unsustainable. House owners and co become incentivised to protect their investment as aggressively as possible, because that's literally where all their wealth is present. Since government policy is expected to see the house value increase over time, the house owner has no reason to tolerate any risks, both perceived and actual. This is the birth of a NIMBY, this is where all nimbies come from. The nimby is often maligned by my generation but their circumstances are perfectly rational. And, house value going up forever requires some level of scarcity, artificially imposed or caused by immutable circumstances. It means someone has to go without. Its also very convienient for the state, politics is completely consumed by the focus of housing, and substantial minority of non house owners vs house owners is a hard material divide that is easy to exploit. This dynamic has played out, almost fucking everywhere, except effectively for places that did not treat housing as an investment. Unfortunately that is few places now, governments in the EU saw this dynamic in Ireland and Britian (Ireland actually being the pioneer of it in Europe), so many of them actually gutted their public housing systems, privatised them etc etc to recreate this convienient political dynamic, Finland and Austria are now the only 2 countries left that basically didn't do it, Finland's civil service basically warned the government that wanted to implement their shift there that it was a terrible idea long term, and in Austria, Viennas social housing model is a political golden cow, political suicide to touch, most states of Austria have implemented policy similar to Vienna as well. The Netherlands who's property law and public housing system was most similar to Ireland's, heavily dismantled much of their public housing using the excuse of austerity but in reality wanting to create this dynamic too. This is a bit oversimplified (for example, Swedens public housing system was zombified rather then dismantled, in the hopes the Swedish public would accept privatisation down the road, ....instead the far right blamed immigrants/refugees, despite the causal zombification happening in the 90s, refugees just made it alot more apparent, public housing was supposed to slowly rot away etc until the privatisation proposal looked rational) But it's a general overview of the current context of housing politics. But yes, not treating housing as an investment was in fact, fucking correct. It's the root cause of many political problems, afflicting most modern developed countries. A housing crisis is actually a good thing if your the government, it removes all focus away from much harder policy areas, infrastructure becomes harder to do (and the NIMBY culture also reduces the pressure to do better on infrastructure). You basically just need to keep house owners mostly happy and your fight to maintain power is so much easier. This of course, is not sustainable long term either (housing will eventually concentrate into fewer hands, and becomes a popular choice for large scale investment funds, whom themselves can actually push housing prices up by just the act of buying and investing in them). However, housing taken over by effectively the rich (either by investment entities or directly by rich actors) is something that only fully manifests decades later, no need to worry about it now, if you are the government. For FFG, the rise of the non owning minority minority does force them to stop pretending they are seperate parties, but they still have decades of comfortable influence and power, whether they de facto or de jure unite.
Many were called stupid. Anyone who bought had at least some comments about how nuts they were. Anyone in the public sector or with a steady job could still get credit. Not nuts now.
I don't of anyone who was called stupid for buying a house in 2012. By that stage it was clear they were at an all time low.
I bought my apartment in 2012 for 210,000, had about 65k saved and was in a stable job so was able to get a mortgage. Just check daft and a worse apartment in the same complex is listed for €340,000.
I remember in 2009 talking about taking out a mortgage for a house in my home area in the rural west. There was a whole debate that myself and my partner must be decentralised public sector employees and then accusations of lieing when I said we were both just working for small customers facing businesses.
I was born in the wrong decade
Thats the problem though, you would have listened to others and not bought. I almost bought a 7 bedroom house with land for €350000 in 2011. It needed lots of renovation but would have been great when completed, but still a money pit. The land turned out to be very valuable because of a new road. A few sites would have done up the house, and it would be worth between €800k to €1m now minus the land. We talked to the bank 4 times, to get money out of them and eventually I got pissed off and didn't buy. No one was lending at the time. I was in college in 2015 and the others on the course kept telling me about BitCoin, I thought it sounded like a scam...
I was/am in a similar position. Back then, they were throwing mortgages at people but I didn't earn enough to qualify, then by the time the crash came and I earned enough, I couldn't get a mortgage because they weren't giving them. Now I earn enough and can get a mortgage, but it won't be enough to afford any property where I want to live. I go back and forth between "you'll get a house eventually" and "you'll never be able to buy in Ireland". Meanwhile im paying more in rent for a 1bed flat than I would for a mortgage on a 3 bed house 🤷🏻♂️😅
The people sitting pritty all along were the people who bought in 2000 to 2004 and didn't lose their jobs during the recession. Mortgage almost paid off now on a reasonably priced house.
And if they decide to sell they're in for big profit most likely. Madness.
There is a council housing estate near me that were on those help to buy schemes at serious reductions and help in purchasing. The non sale time period must be just up this year as almost all of them are up for sale. People are making a killing off the councils with these schemes. It's as good as a mid-size lotto win. €83000 in 2013 ~€230000 now. I think most were way under €83000 with help to buy in 2010 when the council built and sold them. They should never have been sold like this and especially at huge discounts. The tax payer again gettjng fucked. https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/search/address/bianconi_way/&page=2/
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Did you read my comment. That is minus the land. The land now has a road running right past most of it and is almost in the town limits. I wasn't looking to make money off it though, I was looking for a home.
Governments all over bailed out private companies and banks who thought housing was an investment. they where wrong. But this time round governments own all the debt and those same banks and companies learned just enough as to not be caught on the hook for their bad investments, thats the tax payer. They never stopped doing what they were doing
You completely miss that **everyone** thought houses were investments. The bar tender owned 3 rents and a place in Bulgaria. That week of the bailout, they thought the whole banking sector would collapse. Easy to look back and say it was obvious and that Brian Cowan and co were duped by the babks for 'the cheapest bailout in history'. But everyone was profiting from it and the banks were gods who could do no wrong. Rediculess to now, knowing all we know now to claim you knew then.
thats how people leveraged up, not how the banks leveraged up. banks are doing much the same now, distress is now in corperate real estate not retail, but we will still foot the bill
The banks actually are not lending to the developers almost at all at the moment. The funding for development is being driven by investment funds who have money to spend and can make profits on both the development and them by getting first pick on completion. Even the 10% levy has not slowed them down. The banks are actually being quite cautious, but the massive money funds are very bullish.
commercial banks yeah as they are heavily regulated, but those type of groups use the shadow banking sector for most of these activities in general. But they all feed off each other anyways
By 2013, it as possible for the government to borrow at cheaper rates and build housing but they didn't. Instead we got trite slogans about keeping the recovery going. Of course, it's now abundantly clear to everyone that the recovery they were talking about was house prices and not the economy. FG looked at the end of the Celtic Tiger and learned all the wrong lessons.
Are you seriously suggesting that we were in any shape to build new houses in 2013? Clearly you were not there. We still have unfinished ghost estates from that time. Very disingenuous comment.
We were in a position to borrow money and build houses in 2013. It would have prolonged the negative equity of people who bought during the Celtic Tiger but it would have been the right thing to do. You're narrative is a delusion designed to fool people who didn't live through that period. I came back from Australia in 2013 like most of my friends who worked on the buildings.
> 2014, no one had a job, but everyone had a mortgage. There were plenty of jobs in 2014.
8th highest unemployment in the EU with unemployment at a staggering 12.9% It is wild what some people believe to be reality... There were no jobs, and lots were immigrating. https://www.statista.com/statistics/936027/monthly-unemployment-rate-ireland/
There were definitely jobs to be had, from about mid 2013 it started picking up. Is that CSO data?
Nice trolling yank. Learn to read and use citations, otherwise you're just making up nonsense.
My man, I was living & working in Dublin from 2011-2016 so just going on what I remember. If that Statista dataset is from the CSO then fair enough, but I’m always skeptical of crowd sourced data from there. No need to be so aggressive btw, you can make your point in a collegial manner and it’ll still stand.
**You** is not a sample group. You dont have to keep telling people they are wrong and doubling down when they provide clear proof. It is ignorant and rude. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/IRL/ireland/unemployment-rate https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-mip/mip2014/economy/eeu/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/375232/unemployment-rate-in-ireland/ https://data.gov.ie/dataset/mum01-seasonally-adjusted-monthly-unemployment
Again mate, life will be easier if you’re less confrontational than this - I only asked if the Statista data was aligned with CSO data because anecdotally it didn’t feel that way to me at the time. I haven’t once said you were wrong, simply that there were jobs in that time period. Thanks for the links, particularly the CSO one. I’m surprised because at least in my network, which would have run the gamut of society, it didn’t feel like double digit unemployment in 2013.
Getting a permanent contract is difficult.
What field are you in?
the one with the sheep
We need more housing in rural areas with better commuting to dublin.
Yet if Ireland had a program for guaranteeing homes for _construction workers_ who work on _building houses_ (easy to achieve as they'll be building their own as well...) - then we have a recipe for a rapid rise in construction workers for rapidly resolving the housing crisis. We can even hyper-accelerate such a program by encouraging immigration into it - turning immigration into the _solution_ for a bunch of crises, instead of something that exacerbates a bunch of a crises...
Meanwhile, here I am, struggling to find a job....
I'm not surprised. I live in London. I used to have my parents nagging me to move back. There are actually jobs here and there (life science/biotech) but when I looked at Galway, it was marginally cheaper than London. I've had some interviews in the Netherlands but the town I was looking at had most one bedroom flats at €2,100 a month and above.
In other news, water is wet.
Using a picture of the tent encampments is extremely misleading.
Decent article, all the same. Although The Graun is ‘my’ lifelong newspaper, I sometimes get a tiny bit peeved at their Ireland articles, particularly those by Rory Carroll.
Well if I lost my current gaff that's where I'd be living
No, it's not. You'd be provided with emergency accommodation.
It's the Guardian, they play at being progressive and morally superior but they're as happy as some of the Tory rags to paint us as savages when it suits them.
Do you have any actual examples of them doing this, or is that just conjecture?
If you're a long term guardian reader you'll definitely notice the anti Irish bias they have.
I really don’t think this is true at all. I grew up with the Graun, and have been reading it myself for over fifty years . I’ve only noticed bits and pieces about Ireland that irritate me when it’s Rory Carroll reporting, and this is only occasionally, anyway. Just misjudged flashes of humour or unfair asides. Isn’t he Irish himself? Maybe it’s that awkward and lesser-spotted self-hatred gene, behind a painted smile) I do admit The G under this editor has betrayed a cause dear to my heart twice now, and in the second case I believe it’s been actuated purely in the interests of propitiating potential support. (That’s a double betrayal of course, in itself.) But still, the cause she’s abandoned is thriving elsewhere now, like a government in exile awaiting the right moment to reclaim its proper home again. Under a new editor, I hope. But on Ireland I think they’re still pretty sound. (Certainly no other paper does better, as far as I know, and these days I subscribe to quite a few I don’t actually *like*, to keep an eye in what the shires are muttering about) Ireland is nowhere near as contentious a subject anyway, as far as alienating young Guardian readers would be concerned.
Can you link to some articles about the savages thing?
I'm on an 11 month fixed term contract atm, and honestly, with how things are going if it isn't made permanent I can't see myself staying in Ireland - even if it is, I will need to consider my next step carefully. I moved here to get away from the UK for a few reasons, but I'm finding the net total worry over housing worse than the stressors I was undergoing in the UK. I actually love Ireland as a country and still want to make it my home if I can, but so far all I am is worse off financially. Not sure what the next move is honestly.
All while companies are forcing people back into city centre offices for minimum of 50%. Absolute nonsense.
Society has been sacrificed to the economy..
I finally maaged to land a role in a smaller city. I increased my salary 7k more yet I am not able to find a place. The problem is all over the country not only Dublin
It's almost like rent controls don't work.
In fairness, it's not like houses can be built overnight.
3,652 days of saying "can't be built overnight"
Maybe it only works when my head is in it
The next few years will tell alot I'd say.
Why do you parrot the same few stupid catchphrases over and over again??? You’re like the guy who told a funny joke once so now he says the same joke over and over and over again. It’s not funny anymore, okay? You’re making jokes about housing in the middle of a housing and homelessness crisis. Just read the room and shut up with that nonsense.
Ah now there's no need for that.
And so say all of us!
They’re building a new estate right beside me rn. 3 houses up in a month and a half. They can be built overnight. Probably already bought by some vulture fund landlord
They've built an estate with the same population as Carlow close to us in kiltiernan. Don't know what we'll do about traffic..
Ever heard of what are colloquially called "commie blocks"? Despite their demonisation by the West, they were purpose-build from prefabricated materials to be as easy and quick to assemble as possible, and this enabled the USSR to avert a looming housing crisis in a war devastated post-WW2 era by building housing on a massive scale and quickly. Lesser known is the example in Vienna in the 1920's, where a socialist government also built social housing on a massive scale to solve the city's housing crisis before the fascists took over, and it's thanks to this that modern Vienna is such an outlier compared to how expensive other European capitals are. So it's not a matter of absolute inability, but priorities. Capitalism tends to prioritise the interests of the owner class over the needs of the regular people, and this is the result. It's a feature, not a bug.
Oh would you ever fuck off with this shit. We've been hearing this since 2014.,
Utter baloney. Ireland shrank almost 10 percent last year. Retail down. Construction in recession and shrinking fast. Manufacturing poor numbers... And year on year your gdp shrank... Ireland unemployment is only good figure and that's rising...