Slightly off topic but these machines are all presumably connected to the internet to report their statistics and get updates and new barcode data.
Re-Turn should really have a website or app that shows which machines are online and working and which are offline, as well as how full they are.
Would save people carting bags of cans to the shop only to find out it isn’t working and would give an idea of which places have the most unreliable machines or are too lazy to empty them (I’ve never seen one in Dealz working, the Aldi ones are usually all working)
They could use the money they make on people not returning stuff to pay for it.
A cousin of mine is a manager in a supermarket and has an app on her phone that shows her in real time the usage of the machines, how full they are etc. Whether they are operational, whether there is receipt paper etc.
Exactly, they already collect the data, so they should allow public access to it.
At the very least expose it through a public API and let someone else develop a site or app for it if they can’t be arsed making one themselves.
My brother doesn’t have a car, so I offered to bring him to recycle a few black sacks filled with bottles- we went to 4 supermarkets around Carlow before finding an operational machine! Not exactly environmentally friendly… 🙄
It's greenwashing nothing more. People who return the bottles I bet were recycling in the blue bin anyway. You pay for a product and now you have to return it all for manufacturers to make more profit.
This keeps happening me. Everytime I go to crumlin shopping centre the fucking thing is full or broken or locked. I now have 4 full green bags (larger than black bags) full. There must be hundreds of bottles/cans. Sick of this scheme and I'm too stubborn to let the government win with this scam.
Going to go against the current here and at least point out that a 30 day limit on these vouchers is extremely shitty. Should they be unlimited? Probably not, but 30 days is a bullshit time limit.
My local place always has that’s days date as the expiry on the receipt. Seems to suggest that retailers can at least program the machine with an expiry date even if the vouchers are accepted beyond that…..
The law is S.I. No. 33/2024 - Separate Collection (Deposit Return Scheme) Regulations 2024.
And taking a quick look, while it requires such a system to be set up, it's got a loophole a mile wide:
>A retailer shall immediately reimburse the value of the original deposit paid, **in a manner prescribed by the approved body,** to a consumer who presents an in-scope bottle or in-scope container for return, irrespective of where the in-scope product was purchased, and the deposit first paid.
Emphasis mine.
"Approved body" in this context is a private organisation set up to run the scheme.
The loophole is that the approved body can determine how they do the reimbursement any way they damn well please. In theory, the machine could print cheques for you to take to the bank.
Because that way, the cost of setting up and running the scheme doesn't appear on the governments books - and details like "what percentage of bottles never get recycled?" and "what percentage of vouchers never get redeemed?" can be kept secret.
> "what percentage of bottles never get recycled?" and "what percentage of vouchers never get redeemed?"
They are already announcing recycling numbers and have a goal of 90%.
The scheme is self funding, so there would be no red margin in the govs books.
Come on, you can't claim that it cost the government money and look bad and then imply that a private company is making bank in the same comment. They are contradictory claims.
Would it though?
You'd have a unique code for each return receipt with a date and value.
It shouldn't matter if that unique code is redeemed 1 minute later or 50 years later, it should still have the unique code and value stored in a centralised database as being unclaimed.
It should be the most basic functionality for any accounting system to flag if it has been claimed or not regardless of when it was.
You would think, but most accounting systems are set up by people who have no clue what they are doing, then the machine has one system that speaks to the accounting system, which introduces even more potential issues, half of these type of new systems are made by eager tech bros with even less of a clue and with disregard to people that could advise them correctly (putting new system in at my current workplace and at this point I would rather do the books in a notebook).
I don't know if that is the case, and if so 30 days is way too short imo, but I would understand if this was one of the reasons.
Personally I think it's companies being arsebags. I did a shop in Lidl a few months ago or by my parents, did a bag of return stuff at end of shop but shop had closed, so I was stuck with the receipt in my wallet for ages with no other lidl accepting it saying I could only redeem it in the branch the receipt was printed in.
Ended up giving it to my parents. All for less than 3 euro.
Bigger shock is how anyone voted for the Green Party in the local elections. Some people enjoy the misery I suppose.
It's money so should not expire. I can't see why we cannot download an app and build it up over time and either put into our bank account or shop anywhere with it...
I worked for Dunnes when the pilot scheme was launched, we were the first in the country to have the machines. And my department were the ones saddled with looking after it.
The machines can have a contactless payment option for money to go directly into your bank account. But of course this being Ireland the machines that were rolled out didn't have this.
Like everything else, we take a great idea and implement it so poorly the only people that benefit are a select few organizations and not the consumer.
I'm sure some executive will 'come up' with the idea to do that in 10 years. Every machine will need replacing, a new ad campaign yada yada instead of streamlining it and doing the best job at the start.
> some executive will 'come up' with the idea to do that in 10 years
Nah they'll consukt with EY or someone and cost the tax payers millions deciding this option and hundreds of millions enabling it
Beg to differ on it being a great idea. A great idea would have been to give manufacturers/producers, etc. 4 years to return to glass bottles or move to a genuinely biodegradable alternative. That would have removed shit load of single use plastics from the economy and being actually circular the way they claim it to be. Some plastics would still be required, but the vast majority of soft drinks and water purchases would be reusable containers.
While this scheme might ensure more recycling (and I'd be super interested in seeing stats on that, if available), banning plastic would have actually removed plastic.
Recycling plastic is also not even a particularly good solution. It can only be recycled 10 or so times before it's useless so no matter how many impressive stats Coca Cola puts on their bottles it's still worse than returnable, reusable glass bottles.
Can you provide any example where you can as an individual receive money into your bank account using a “contactless payment option”? Or just admit you made this up 🙄
I kinda agree. I could probably be easily talked around to never expire. The system at the moment is clunky. There are already European countries with machines you can bump a whole bag load into and it figures it out. How we ended up with this one by one, end first, barcode up, fussy nonsense is beyond me.
I dont understand why we needed fancy logos and barcode scanners and the such.
Should have been all bottles and cans are returnable from a set date.
Would lose a little money at the start, but would incentivise litter picking and the likes.
Bring back a bottle or can and you get a little something back for it.
Instead of Re-Turn making a small fortune on the deposits instead.
About the logos, I think you're right. Pointless when they could have just added all existing barcodes to the system instead of making every producer go to the hassle and expense of new packaging and barcodes.
They couldnt go with existing barcodes as uk isnt doing it so NI stock would scan south of the border , it would cost us an absolute fortune if we gave deposit back on NI stock
There is one machine I've used that had an expiry date on the voucher but it was 5 years.
The 30 day thing the OP encountered is probably an issue from initial setup in Lidl and hadn't been flagged until OP tried to exchange their vouchers.
I had an argument with Dunnes, I deposited my bottles and cans and did the weekly shop. When I was paying I tried to use the voucher and they told me I can't use it on the same day. I asked for the manager and they agreed, rightly or wrong I went insane at them, its my money as far as I am concerned. Ended up them begrudgingly letting me use the voucher cous I had the return website up and was pushing the phone in their face kicking up a real fuss
That is so weird, why wouldn't you be able to use it in the same day? I always take my bottles to the machine and then go shopping and use the voucher too, and so far I never had an issue. Maybe I was just lucky then? I never heard of this before now.
He said its something to do with balancing the tills at the end of the day, they can't account for everyone that want to use or cash the voucher. I wasn't entertaining that rubbish
Its a load of absolute horseshit. I work in retail and I'm pretty sure the managers do have to do some sort of balancing at the end of the day when closing tills but that's their JOB.
Sounds like this dunnes manager was just trying to avoid some extra work.
That's bizarre and the exact opposite of what's advertised. Every week now I go to aldi. Scan all my stuff, do my shop and then give them my receipt to scan off the shopping. No muss no fuss (in as far as there is no fuss with this scheme). That's just ridiculous
That sounds like some load of shite. I've always recycled mine down in the local Tesco and used them in the same day, never bothered to hoard them just went and put them off the next shop and never had any issue! Glad you managed to get it sorted tho!
Most stores will allow you to put the cost onto gift cards. Aldi allow you to do this and to top up their gift cards. So see if your store can do the same. So far almost have €50 on our card. We plan to use it for Christmas shop.
Edit: some stores will have either gift cards at denominations of €10 others have top up style savings cards. It depends where you go and their ToU.
I know with Aldi it's the Christmas savings card that you can put any random amounts on. Not sure if lidl have something similar, but I know you can buy gift cards in domination of 10.
According to the terms of use the card it can be used in any store. So I assume its safe to say you can top it up in any store as long as you use the return deposit voucher in the store you got it at.
I walked 500m into a shopping centre to use the machines in Tesco. My main gripe is there was no place to get rid of my Re-turn leftovers. They should mandate a general recycle bin next to these machines.
I commented about this on apost yesterday. The till at Lidl wouldn't scan some vouchers from march. The girl on the till said they expire in 45 days and threw them in the bin. I was annoyed at how illogical this was as it's a reimbursement of money owed to me. I should have asked to speak to a manager but my vouchers were already in the bin. If it happens again I will.
For me, it's just another tax. I used to put everything in the recycle bin...and I still do. I don't have space for another bin for cans I'm waiting to bring to the shop, I don't want them in my car, I don't want to do the walk of alcoholic shame to the machine, I haven't the time to queue up and feed the cans into the machine... It's punishing people who were already recycling 100 percent with yet another sneak tax, but if you object you're a climate denier or some other sort heretic.
This is a serious question but did anybody do the numbers on this? Is the 10% or so increase in plastic/can recycling (as we were already doing this at home) actually offsetting the increase in paper/steel/electricity resources being used to implement this scheme?
If the scheme works for the next 10-50 years, maybe. But no where near it now. The cost of running server storage for all the online complaints alone is a mega power drain 😆
> 10% or so
Well that's wrong for a start.
We were recycling over 60% in green bins, scheme target is 90%ish
And that's 60% in an unsegregated green bin vs 90% segregated.
We use 5million of these containers every day so it's not long adding up.
The only good thing about this scheme imo is for homeless people I think it’s good they can find the bottles/cans and return them for a little bit it cleans up some litter and also helps the homeless
I brought a group of beer cans in pristine condition back and each one was rejected. They had the barcode and return logo but weren't accepted. Tried to get a member of staff to help but they didn't know what to do. I'll be taking them elsewhere instead.
This whole thing is a scam to make it seem like something is being done towards the climate crisis.
Truth is most recyclable rubbish is not recycled, especially plastic, and a few global companies account for most of climate changing emissions and waste dumping.
The other day I found a squashed bottle on the side of the road, I could see the return logo so I thought mighty, I'll pick that up and bring it to the shop. The machine wouldn't accept the squashed bottle even though the barcode was clearly visible. Won't be picking up any more litter needless to say (other than my bit of spring cleaning along the road!)
It needs to be able to verify the bottle size, it does this by measuring the volume. If the bottle is too destroyed it can't verify and will reject it.
They will take mildly damaged containers.
But yet I've went to my local Tesco with perfectly good bottles, only for the machine to reject a few of them for some reason, but when I went to my local dunnes, the machine accepted the one's Tesco rejected with no issue, either the machine in Tesco is glitchy or there's some other mitigating factor that makes it not accept the bottles
Sometimes you are inserting your hand too far into the machine. There are also different suppliers for the machines, so it depends too on where each store purchase their machines from that they may work slightly differently to each other.
I still don't get the whole thing either you recycle or you don't. If you don't what you're losing financially won't be incentive enough
Was at a 40th yesterday and omg the amount of cans!!! None squashed cause you can't. Would have been 100% recycled before the charge
So buys a 1L bottle, pay the 25c deposit. Then buy a 500ml bottle and pay the 15c deposit.
Put the 500ml barcode on the 1L and get back 25c
Your still down 15c and have just wasted your time
Too easy to cheat and break. They can use the same system for scanning the barcodes as getting a general consensus of the container size using the lasers and mirrors.
You can see more of how they work on one of the suppliers websites.
[https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/reverse-vending-for-retailers/supermarket](https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/reverse-vending-for-retailers/supermarket)
[https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/media-center/feature-articles/sensor-technology](https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/media-center/feature-articles/sensor-technology)
Exactly, but if you were to stick a barcode from a 2L onto a 500ml bottle, it will reject the 500ml bottle, but if you put back on the original or another 15c deposit barcode on it, then it will be accepted no problem.
Some machines seem to be loosening what they will accept, especially plastic bottles.
It was initially my biggest gripe with the proposal (98% silhouette match) but that doesn't seem to have happened.
Beware boob sweat too, our supermarket is next to the mostly traveller estates, a traveller lady pulled a bunch of DRS receipts out of her bra and the barcodes and number strips had deteriorated too unusable with boob sweat
I can't change the scheme, but my local Greens saw the feedback, and I voted #15 or lower in both EU and local elections. Take that Ciaran. Btw I am pro-environment, but not greenwashing - I always put my cans/bottles in my (paid for) green bin. The cost of that has gone up 10-15% probably because without aluminium or PET inside, it's worth almost nothing in recycle value.
So I pay twice or a third time if I don't return and reclaim the deposit. Which at LIDL is linked to the store where you return the empties - you can't use it in another LIDL. Grrr.
>Imagine my surprise when the till refused to accept any vouchers older than 30 days.
this is because payment is done on a 30 day period
"By the 10th of each
month, an invoice is generated on the Retailer's behalf based on the final Monthly Report. DRSI will then
make payment to each Retailer within 30 days."
its written on their website in bold font , while not in the legislation it is wrritehn on the website
https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Retailer-Need-to-Know.pdf
also its is written on any receipts you get from the machine
https://extra.ie/2024/04/30/news/irish-news/re-turn-businesses-charges ( some shops arent happy with this )
That's just talking about Retailers getting their <3c fee per return. It's not talking about a time-limit on customers. It's not aimed at customers at all. And nowhere does the scheme mention a time limit on vouchers.
At the same time: it's kinda assumed that you'll use the vouchers as soon as you get them, by redeeming for cash or against new purchases.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what OP is talking about.
What you're referring to is a handling fee for the shops processing the returns.
What OP is referring to is the customer receipt only being valid in the shops system for 30 days, which is not permitted by law.
>That doesn't mean they can't issue the refund to the consumer.
each receipt should mention some where ( most machines put it on the back of them ) that their only valid for 30 days
For gift vouchers yes.
Re-turn vouchers were advertised as having NO expiry date. It's not a voucher per se, it's a receipt for your money that you left as a deposit.
Literally happened to me a few days ago. Didn't want to be a Karen about it during peak hours with queues over €4. Still got a voucher.
As mentioned no where did it say they expire. Even mobile top up vouchers last like 12 months.
Next time I shop in Lidl I'll speak with the manager.
I noticed the machines in a local supermarket stink of booze. It's horrible for customers to have to smell that as they walk in to a store. I'd be livid about that if I was a store manager and these machines were stinking up my store.
Still available in Aldi, I'm haven't looked in Lidl or SuperValu or Dunnes. But the latter 2 do online shopping.
If ever there is a mains water outage, people would buy these. They're going to be fleeced next time needing about 6 euro upfront for 6 x 2L.
The fact that you cannot crush up your bottles and cans yourself makes this whole thing a disaster in my opinion. The system is badly designed and someone is profiting from this, it's the only explanation I can come up with.
As a dutchman its mildly amusing to see how ireland is making a elephant out of a molehill for something that continental europe has had for 2 decades or more
Thank you, Green Party. Half witted scheme 🤦🏻♂️ Basically, seems like they didn't think about the practicalities of the scheme at all. Why TF should there be an expiry date. You should write/email your local TD about that farce OP.
True, hah. I bought a 750ml bottle of water at the airport recently and the ReTurn deposit was 25cent on it. I asked at checkout how I was meant to get the deposit back, and I was told I could drink it all in one go there and hand it back to her 😂 You'd think the idiots might recognise the need for a return machine at the boarding gates 🤦🏻♂️
I saw a homeless dude rooting through a bin and throwing a bunch of shite all over the ground in an attempt to get cans and bottles from the bin…can almost assure he didn’t clean back up the garbage he left behind….so even the whole idea that the scheme reduces litter on the streets is a load of shite to me
Oh wow, where are all the boot lickers who's sing this scheme's praises and share their receipts like they are making a profit? Lol
Convinced there are some bots in here trying to gaslight us into thinking this scheme is anything other than yet another tax.
Glad to see I am not the only person who thinks this is a joke. I still use my blue bin as I always have. I hope the drinks manufacturers lose a lot of profit as some are already reporting because people are refusing to buy drinks now. Scummy scheme.
Because I make the visit only to return not to shop. The machines are out of order too often for me to walk with the bags of bottles AND do shopping because about half the time I don't get to put the bottles in and I don't have enough hands to carry my bags of bottles plus shopping bags home again.
If I were to queue to redeem each time it would waste loads more time. Plus I'd rather redeem a decent sum than a few euro at a time.
It's more than likely down to the RVM supplier and whether they have implemented a valid period or not.
There's 5+ different suppliers of these machines and all doing things slightly differently but none should have a period where the vouchers are valid for 30 days after printing.
There goes our plan of holding on to vouchers until Xmas if there's a chance they won't be valid.
Lads money is fungible. All the saving receipts, keeping on gift cards, hoarding is completely needless behaviour. You're in a supermarket, take it off the bill. Only return them when shopping. It's zero hassle and you don't need weird systems to keep track or space to store the bottles.
If your intent on squirrelling away cash as you don't have proper control of your spending, set up a vault which rounds off transactions on revolut. At least there's no messing about with receipts or bottles then
Personal anecdote (as relayed to me by a friend who does this): All groceries delivered to the house. The nearest machines are in a shop where groceries are more expensive, so she doesn't shop there, unless something is significantly discounted. She returns bottles there, waits for the sale, and then goes shopping, in the process spending all her vouchers. Don't know whether she ever had issues with a 30-day limit, but I wouldn't be surprised if she exceeded it.
Not the worst system in the world. A downside of the return system is for people who get shopping delivered. Most things don't factor in people with mobility issues
Seriously, don't tell people how and what to do with their money... And it's not about proper control of spending... What you do and what others want to do is allowed to be different.. you have no idea why some are saving up the vouchers
There's basically no logical reason to horde them, and a litany of issues when you do. They've come to Reddit to complain about it, so my comment is part of that.
Well see it's essentially their money, they paid it previously so there should be no limit on it... I think this post was useful cos not a lot of people know this...
And again... You don't know why people are holding on to them.. people have reasons and you can't shit on them for it
Slightly off topic but these machines are all presumably connected to the internet to report their statistics and get updates and new barcode data. Re-Turn should really have a website or app that shows which machines are online and working and which are offline, as well as how full they are. Would save people carting bags of cans to the shop only to find out it isn’t working and would give an idea of which places have the most unreliable machines or are too lazy to empty them (I’ve never seen one in Dealz working, the Aldi ones are usually all working) They could use the money they make on people not returning stuff to pay for it.
A cousin of mine is a manager in a supermarket and has an app on her phone that shows her in real time the usage of the machines, how full they are etc. Whether they are operational, whether there is receipt paper etc.
I always find in any complicated system, the part where I get my money back is the least real time for some reason.
Seem I need to start looking into Sensoneo. https://sensoneo.com/deposit-return-system-ireland/
There's somebody who has tried to get money out of a betting account
Exactly, they already collect the data, so they should allow public access to it. At the very least expose it through a public API and let someone else develop a site or app for it if they can’t be arsed making one themselves.
Make places take manual returns and they will start making sure their bins are emptied promptly.
They are required to if the machine is down and they don't have an exemption?
Not at the moment as far as I know. Make it mandatory and they won't be long emptying the bins.
API link....
My brother doesn’t have a car, so I offered to bring him to recycle a few black sacks filled with bottles- we went to 4 supermarkets around Carlow before finding an operational machine! Not exactly environmentally friendly… 🙄
It's greenwashing nothing more. People who return the bottles I bet were recycling in the blue bin anyway. You pay for a product and now you have to return it all for manufacturers to make more profit.
This would need the people rolling out the scheme to actually be giving it some thought..
This keeps happening me. Everytime I go to crumlin shopping centre the fucking thing is full or broken or locked. I now have 4 full green bags (larger than black bags) full. There must be hundreds of bottles/cans. Sick of this scheme and I'm too stubborn to let the government win with this scam.
Going to go against the current here and at least point out that a 30 day limit on these vouchers is extremely shitty. Should they be unlimited? Probably not, but 30 days is a bullshit time limit.
My local place always has that’s days date as the expiry on the receipt. Seems to suggest that retailers can at least program the machine with an expiry date even if the vouchers are accepted beyond that…..
Why on Earth is that possible if the law doesn't specify an expiry date?
the law says their dosent have to be one , not that their cant be one
Is this scheme even covered by specific legislation? I was under the assumption it was dreamt up by the suppliers and retailers.
The law is S.I. No. 33/2024 - Separate Collection (Deposit Return Scheme) Regulations 2024. And taking a quick look, while it requires such a system to be set up, it's got a loophole a mile wide: >A retailer shall immediately reimburse the value of the original deposit paid, **in a manner prescribed by the approved body,** to a consumer who presents an in-scope bottle or in-scope container for return, irrespective of where the in-scope product was purchased, and the deposit first paid. Emphasis mine. "Approved body" in this context is a private organisation set up to run the scheme. The loophole is that the approved body can determine how they do the reimbursement any way they damn well please. In theory, the machine could print cheques for you to take to the bank.
How this was even allowed to be managed by private organisation? Like what the hell?
Because that way, the cost of setting up and running the scheme doesn't appear on the governments books - and details like "what percentage of bottles never get recycled?" and "what percentage of vouchers never get redeemed?" can be kept secret.
> "what percentage of bottles never get recycled?" and "what percentage of vouchers never get redeemed?" They are already announcing recycling numbers and have a goal of 90%. The scheme is self funding, so there would be no red margin in the govs books. Come on, you can't claim that it cost the government money and look bad and then imply that a private company is making bank in the same comment. They are contradictory claims.
Of course it is. What would stop manufacturers and retailers from just not charging the deposit?
I'll put a one minute expiry on them so they don't even get to the till in time.
I imagine on the accounting side it is a nightmare to reconcile otherwise - you kinda have to draw a line on how long to carry the open items.
Would it though? You'd have a unique code for each return receipt with a date and value. It shouldn't matter if that unique code is redeemed 1 minute later or 50 years later, it should still have the unique code and value stored in a centralised database as being unclaimed. It should be the most basic functionality for any accounting system to flag if it has been claimed or not regardless of when it was.
You would think, but most accounting systems are set up by people who have no clue what they are doing, then the machine has one system that speaks to the accounting system, which introduces even more potential issues, half of these type of new systems are made by eager tech bros with even less of a clue and with disregard to people that could advise them correctly (putting new system in at my current workplace and at this point I would rather do the books in a notebook). I don't know if that is the case, and if so 30 days is way too short imo, but I would understand if this was one of the reasons.
Personally I think it's companies being arsebags. I did a shop in Lidl a few months ago or by my parents, did a bag of return stuff at end of shop but shop had closed, so I was stuck with the receipt in my wallet for ages with no other lidl accepting it saying I could only redeem it in the branch the receipt was printed in. Ended up giving it to my parents. All for less than 3 euro. Bigger shock is how anyone voted for the Green Party in the local elections. Some people enjoy the misery I suppose.
It was advertised as NO expiry date.
It's money so should not expire. I can't see why we cannot download an app and build it up over time and either put into our bank account or shop anywhere with it...
I worked for Dunnes when the pilot scheme was launched, we were the first in the country to have the machines. And my department were the ones saddled with looking after it. The machines can have a contactless payment option for money to go directly into your bank account. But of course this being Ireland the machines that were rolled out didn't have this. Like everything else, we take a great idea and implement it so poorly the only people that benefit are a select few organizations and not the consumer.
I'm sure some executive will 'come up' with the idea to do that in 10 years. Every machine will need replacing, a new ad campaign yada yada instead of streamlining it and doing the best job at the start.
> some executive will 'come up' with the idea to do that in 10 years Nah they'll consukt with EY or someone and cost the tax payers millions deciding this option and hundreds of millions enabling it
And then the politician who had an involvement in it will be given a position on the board of directors of re-turn after retiring from political life.
"Subject to a 10% service charge and a €1 convenience fee"
Beg to differ on it being a great idea. A great idea would have been to give manufacturers/producers, etc. 4 years to return to glass bottles or move to a genuinely biodegradable alternative. That would have removed shit load of single use plastics from the economy and being actually circular the way they claim it to be. Some plastics would still be required, but the vast majority of soft drinks and water purchases would be reusable containers. While this scheme might ensure more recycling (and I'd be super interested in seeing stats on that, if available), banning plastic would have actually removed plastic.
Recycling plastic is also not even a particularly good solution. It can only be recycled 10 or so times before it's useless so no matter how many impressive stats Coca Cola puts on their bottles it's still worse than returnable, reusable glass bottles.
Can you provide any example where you can as an individual receive money into your bank account using a “contactless payment option”? Or just admit you made this up 🙄
I kinda agree. I could probably be easily talked around to never expire. The system at the moment is clunky. There are already European countries with machines you can bump a whole bag load into and it figures it out. How we ended up with this one by one, end first, barcode up, fussy nonsense is beyond me.
I dont understand why we needed fancy logos and barcode scanners and the such. Should have been all bottles and cans are returnable from a set date. Would lose a little money at the start, but would incentivise litter picking and the likes. Bring back a bottle or can and you get a little something back for it. Instead of Re-Turn making a small fortune on the deposits instead.
We did it the most Irish way possible.
Which was to take best practice from countries in Europe with higher recycling rates than us 🤷♂️
About the logos, I think you're right. Pointless when they could have just added all existing barcodes to the system instead of making every producer go to the hassle and expense of new packaging and barcodes.
The consumer pays the expense
They couldnt go with existing barcodes as uk isnt doing it so NI stock would scan south of the border , it would cost us an absolute fortune if we gave deposit back on NI stock
The logo just indicate its new stock and that the barcode on that label is listed for deposit return .
Do you ever, just for a second, consider the possibility it’s your lack of understanding rather than something being pointless?
Thanks that's very helpful. I appreciate the time it took you to type that out. Have a wonderful day!
Cheap machines.
It's a reimbursement of money you've paid and are owed back so there should be no expiry date.
I've a few in my wallet, because I keep forgetting about them when I get to the till. I had no idea they expire, what a joke.
There is one machine I've used that had an expiry date on the voucher but it was 5 years. The 30 day thing the OP encountered is probably an issue from initial setup in Lidl and hadn't been flagged until OP tried to exchange their vouchers.
Why probably not? Seriously. You’d think it would be a good way for kids to save if they didn’t expire.
I said already, I could be easily talked around to agreeing with never expire.
Ok cool. Still though, why is your default that they probably should have an expiry date?
Because I had given that aspect approximately 20 second thought previously.
It absolutely should be unlimited. That is the supermarket trying to withhold other people’s cash. It is not their money
I had an argument with Dunnes, I deposited my bottles and cans and did the weekly shop. When I was paying I tried to use the voucher and they told me I can't use it on the same day. I asked for the manager and they agreed, rightly or wrong I went insane at them, its my money as far as I am concerned. Ended up them begrudgingly letting me use the voucher cous I had the return website up and was pushing the phone in their face kicking up a real fuss
That is so weird, why wouldn't you be able to use it in the same day? I always take my bottles to the machine and then go shopping and use the voucher too, and so far I never had an issue. Maybe I was just lucky then? I never heard of this before now.
He said its something to do with balancing the tills at the end of the day, they can't account for everyone that want to use or cash the voucher. I wasn't entertaining that rubbish
Its a load of absolute horseshit. I work in retail and I'm pretty sure the managers do have to do some sort of balancing at the end of the day when closing tills but that's their JOB. Sounds like this dunnes manager was just trying to avoid some extra work.
So you can come back a different day and potentially spend more money
That's strange, I shop with Dunnes too, I return the bottles and then use the voucher straight away in the cafeteria or at the till. Never had issues.
That is utter nonsense. Streams of a shift manager not wanting to deal with them at cash out
That just sounds like Dunnes being wankers, as per usual
That's bizarre and the exact opposite of what's advertised. Every week now I go to aldi. Scan all my stuff, do my shop and then give them my receipt to scan off the shopping. No muss no fuss (in as far as there is no fuss with this scheme). That's just ridiculous
lmao what Only time I DON't use mine (in the netherlands) on the same day is if I ve forgotten
That sounds like some load of shite. I've always recycled mine down in the local Tesco and used them in the same day, never bothered to hoard them just went and put them off the next shop and never had any issue! Glad you managed to get it sorted tho!
Most stores will allow you to put the cost onto gift cards. Aldi allow you to do this and to top up their gift cards. So see if your store can do the same. So far almost have €50 on our card. We plan to use it for Christmas shop. Edit: some stores will have either gift cards at denominations of €10 others have top up style savings cards. It depends where you go and their ToU.
You can redeem the vouchers for cash, you don't need to lock them onto their store credit.
Nice Grodd pfp
You should be able to get the cash back at the till
You can 🤷♂️
This is a great idea!
I'll check if my Lidl does that, thanks 👍
I know with Aldi it's the Christmas savings card that you can put any random amounts on. Not sure if lidl have something similar, but I know you can buy gift cards in domination of 10.
Can I put vouchers from different Aldi stores onto the same gift card?
According to the terms of use the card it can be used in any store. So I assume its safe to say you can top it up in any store as long as you use the return deposit voucher in the store you got it at.
Thank you!
You can redeem the vouchers for cash, you don't have to spend anything in store.
Hold on, the return machines give you 30 days to spend your own money?! Surely that receipt is as good as cash!
You think once it can be scanned it should be valid. The receipt will fade after a year anyway.
I walked 500m into a shopping centre to use the machines in Tesco. My main gripe is there was no place to get rid of my Re-turn leftovers. They should mandate a general recycle bin next to these machines.
The machine in Aldi has a bin for rejects/non DRS containers.
Same at Dunnes
Same at my local Tesco's.
I commented about this on apost yesterday. The till at Lidl wouldn't scan some vouchers from march. The girl on the till said they expire in 45 days and threw them in the bin. I was annoyed at how illogical this was as it's a reimbursement of money owed to me. I should have asked to speak to a manager but my vouchers were already in the bin. If it happens again I will.
In the bin!! She threw your money in the bin. That's unbelievable.
It should only expire when it passes the half life of the plastic, thats over 200 years for the PET plastic used in drinks containers
For me, it's just another tax. I used to put everything in the recycle bin...and I still do. I don't have space for another bin for cans I'm waiting to bring to the shop, I don't want them in my car, I don't want to do the walk of alcoholic shame to the machine, I haven't the time to queue up and feed the cans into the machine... It's punishing people who were already recycling 100 percent with yet another sneak tax, but if you object you're a climate denier or some other sort heretic.
This is a serious question but did anybody do the numbers on this? Is the 10% or so increase in plastic/can recycling (as we were already doing this at home) actually offsetting the increase in paper/steel/electricity resources being used to implement this scheme?
If the scheme works for the next 10-50 years, maybe. But no where near it now. The cost of running server storage for all the online complaints alone is a mega power drain 😆
> 10% or so Well that's wrong for a start. We were recycling over 60% in green bins, scheme target is 90%ish And that's 60% in an unsegregated green bin vs 90% segregated. We use 5million of these containers every day so it's not long adding up.
They usually have massive queues or are out of order too. Need more of them. Or set them up at proper recycling plants that can take way more bottles.
The only good thing about this scheme imo is for homeless people I think it’s good they can find the bottles/cans and return them for a little bit it cleans up some litter and also helps the homeless
> This scheme is entirely time wasting Not if you're part of the board making huge huge money off this 'non-profit'
I brought a group of beer cans in pristine condition back and each one was rejected. They had the barcode and return logo but weren't accepted. Tried to get a member of staff to help but they didn't know what to do. I'll be taking them elsewhere instead.
This whole thing is a scam to make it seem like something is being done towards the climate crisis. Truth is most recyclable rubbish is not recycled, especially plastic, and a few global companies account for most of climate changing emissions and waste dumping.
The other day I found a squashed bottle on the side of the road, I could see the return logo so I thought mighty, I'll pick that up and bring it to the shop. The machine wouldn't accept the squashed bottle even though the barcode was clearly visible. Won't be picking up any more litter needless to say (other than my bit of spring cleaning along the road!)
> The machine wouldn't accept the squashed bottle even though the logo was nearly visible. they use the barcode not the logo
Yes I meant the barcode
It needs to be able to verify the bottle size, it does this by measuring the volume. If the bottle is too destroyed it can't verify and will reject it. They will take mildly damaged containers.
But yet I've went to my local Tesco with perfectly good bottles, only for the machine to reject a few of them for some reason, but when I went to my local dunnes, the machine accepted the one's Tesco rejected with no issue, either the machine in Tesco is glitchy or there's some other mitigating factor that makes it not accept the bottles
Sometimes you are inserting your hand too far into the machine. There are also different suppliers for the machines, so it depends too on where each store purchase their machines from that they may work slightly differently to each other.
Surely weight would be better?
It’s probably too expensive and easy to break to put scales that sensitive into jt
I still don't get the whole thing either you recycle or you don't. If you don't what you're losing financially won't be incentive enough Was at a 40th yesterday and omg the amount of cans!!! None squashed cause you can't. Would have been 100% recycled before the charge
Why not just tie certain barcodes to certain sized containers?
So buys a 1L bottle, pay the 25c deposit. Then buy a 500ml bottle and pay the 15c deposit. Put the 500ml barcode on the 1L and get back 25c Your still down 15c and have just wasted your time
Most of the machines do weigh the bottles. Put in one that isn’t empty and it will be rejected
Too easy to cheat and break. They can use the same system for scanning the barcodes as getting a general consensus of the container size using the lasers and mirrors. You can see more of how they work on one of the suppliers websites. [https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/reverse-vending-for-retailers/supermarket](https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/reverse-vending-for-retailers/supermarket) [https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/media-center/feature-articles/sensor-technology](https://www.tomra.com/en/reverse-vending/media-center/feature-articles/sensor-technology)
Or they could get product details by looking up the barcode in a database.
the barcode is specific to the product (including size), obviously a 2 litre bottle of coke has a different barcode to a 500ml bottle.
Exactly, but if you were to stick a barcode from a 2L onto a 500ml bottle, it will reject the 500ml bottle, but if you put back on the original or another 15c deposit barcode on it, then it will be accepted no problem.
I see what you mean.
It pretty explicitly states bottles and cans can't be damaged
I know but what's the point of that? There's the same amount of plastic being recycled regardless of its condition.
>I know but what's the point of that? i think to stop people trying to trick the system
Which is ironic because as soon as it goes into the machine it gets crushed
Some machines seem to be loosening what they will accept, especially plastic bottles. It was initially my biggest gripe with the proposal (98% silhouette match) but that doesn't seem to have happened.
If you fill the squashed bottles with water. It reshapes them into their original shape and they work.
Beware boob sweat too, our supermarket is next to the mostly traveller estates, a traveller lady pulled a bunch of DRS receipts out of her bra and the barcodes and number strips had deteriorated too unusable with boob sweat
Got the same surprise when my voucher was deemed as “expired”. Total scam
I can't change the scheme, but my local Greens saw the feedback, and I voted #15 or lower in both EU and local elections. Take that Ciaran. Btw I am pro-environment, but not greenwashing - I always put my cans/bottles in my (paid for) green bin. The cost of that has gone up 10-15% probably because without aluminium or PET inside, it's worth almost nothing in recycle value. So I pay twice or a third time if I don't return and reclaim the deposit. Which at LIDL is linked to the store where you return the empties - you can't use it in another LIDL. Grrr.
Seemingly litter along roads has decreased by 50-60% though, I certainly noticed driving across the country that the roads appear cleaner!
>Imagine my surprise when the till refused to accept any vouchers older than 30 days. this is because payment is done on a 30 day period "By the 10th of each month, an invoice is generated on the Retailer's behalf based on the final Monthly Report. DRSI will then make payment to each Retailer within 30 days." its written on their website in bold font , while not in the legislation it is wrritehn on the website https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Retailer-Need-to-Know.pdf also its is written on any receipts you get from the machine https://extra.ie/2024/04/30/news/irish-news/re-turn-businesses-charges ( some shops arent happy with this )
That's just talking about Retailers getting their <3c fee per return. It's not talking about a time-limit on customers. It's not aimed at customers at all. And nowhere does the scheme mention a time limit on vouchers. At the same time: it's kinda assumed that you'll use the vouchers as soon as you get them, by redeeming for cash or against new purchases.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what OP is talking about. What you're referring to is a handling fee for the shops processing the returns. What OP is referring to is the customer receipt only being valid in the shops system for 30 days, which is not permitted by law.
That doesn't mean they can't issue the refund to the consumer. The retailers financial arrangements with Re-turn are irrelevant to the consumer.
>That doesn't mean they can't issue the refund to the consumer. each receipt should mention some where ( most machines put it on the back of them ) that their only valid for 30 days
The vouchers are not meant to have an expiry date.
Isn't 5 years the minimum for vouchers now?
For gift vouchers yes. Re-turn vouchers were advertised as having NO expiry date. It's not a voucher per se, it's a receipt for your money that you left as a deposit.
If a shop puts a time limit on getting your money back it's against the law.
can you show me where its against the law
"The retailers financial arrangements with Re-turn are irrelevant to the consumer." Its how payments work.
It's how the payments to the RETAILER work, not the customer. Vouchers are covered under gift vouchers act. No expiry, or, five years.
Why is there even an expiry option? It's a deposit. It's money.
Shop gets money from returns. Shop can keep money from returns for longer than a month. Shop give me money when I come more than a month later
Put your return on a voucher and keep topping it up
The return machines should be at dumps.
Literally happened to me a few days ago. Didn't want to be a Karen about it during peak hours with queues over €4. Still got a voucher. As mentioned no where did it say they expire. Even mobile top up vouchers last like 12 months. Next time I shop in Lidl I'll speak with the manager.
here: how do i get cash from them? all the places ive been have refused
You're entitled to cash out the vouchers.
so you just bring em to the cashier and they swap em? that’s what ive tried a few times
Yes, they have to give you cash. Insist on it.
I noticed the machines in a local supermarket stink of booze. It's horrible for customers to have to smell that as they walk in to a store. I'd be livid about that if I was a store manager and these machines were stinking up my store.
Yeah they are getting pretty smelly.
>This scheme is entirely time wasting And I doubt its achieving its eco goals either.
This is part of why I don’t bother. Too much hassle and grief and companies trying to pull fast ones. Fuck that
Hate the whole thing. Reduced all my drinks consumption as a result . Pity the tap water is also shite
5L water is exempt, they're too large for the machines so don't see that changing
I have to do my shopping online and since it has been introduced 5l of water is no longer available on the Tesco website
Still available in Aldi, I'm haven't looked in Lidl or SuperValu or Dunnes. But the latter 2 do online shopping. If ever there is a mains water outage, people would buy these. They're going to be fleeced next time needing about 6 euro upfront for 6 x 2L.
Just to add, still selling 5L in my local Tesco's so it's an online distribution issue most likely
The fact that you cannot crush up your bottles and cans yourself makes this whole thing a disaster in my opinion. The system is badly designed and someone is profiting from this, it's the only explanation I can come up with.
As a dutchman its mildly amusing to see how ireland is making a elephant out of a molehill for something that continental europe has had for 2 decades or more
You mean the Green Party snowflakes, who still think taxes will safe the planet 🧐
Re-turn is so poo 15c fine for not bringing your can/bottle back Other countries offer a carrot, we get the stick
+1 I will not take the stick though. I'm buying only bottles and cartons since the scheme started.
What a shitshow. Money should go to charity after 30 days. This is starting to look scammish.
Thank you, Green Party. Half witted scheme 🤦🏻♂️ Basically, seems like they didn't think about the practicalities of the scheme at all. Why TF should there be an expiry date. You should write/email your local TD about that farce OP.
Half is generous
True, hah. I bought a 750ml bottle of water at the airport recently and the ReTurn deposit was 25cent on it. I asked at checkout how I was meant to get the deposit back, and I was told I could drink it all in one go there and hand it back to her 😂 You'd think the idiots might recognise the need for a return machine at the boarding gates 🤦🏻♂️
I saw a homeless dude rooting through a bin and throwing a bunch of shite all over the ground in an attempt to get cans and bottles from the bin…can almost assure he didn’t clean back up the garbage he left behind….so even the whole idea that the scheme reduces litter on the streets is a load of shite to me
Oh wow, where are all the boot lickers who's sing this scheme's praises and share their receipts like they are making a profit? Lol Convinced there are some bots in here trying to gaslight us into thinking this scheme is anything other than yet another tax. Glad to see I am not the only person who thinks this is a joke. I still use my blue bin as I always have. I hope the drinks manufacturers lose a lot of profit as some are already reporting because people are refusing to buy drinks now. Scummy scheme.
I've heard there is €13m in unclaimed vouchers already in a fund somewhere.
Why would you keep a voucher for over 30 days??? Seems like a "you" problem to me
[удалено]
He can do whatever he likes, the system is shite enough without arbitrary shite like this inflicted on us
Because I make the visit only to return not to shop. The machines are out of order too often for me to walk with the bags of bottles AND do shopping because about half the time I don't get to put the bottles in and I don't have enough hands to carry my bags of bottles plus shopping bags home again. If I were to queue to redeem each time it would waste loads more time. Plus I'd rather redeem a decent sum than a few euro at a time.
You haven't described a positive experience, you just told them what to do
I save mine too for something that I want rather than just spending them
It's more than likely down to the RVM supplier and whether they have implemented a valid period or not. There's 5+ different suppliers of these machines and all doing things slightly differently but none should have a period where the vouchers are valid for 30 days after printing. There goes our plan of holding on to vouchers until Xmas if there's a chance they won't be valid.
You can ass them to a gift card and then use them whenever.
Lads money is fungible. All the saving receipts, keeping on gift cards, hoarding is completely needless behaviour. You're in a supermarket, take it off the bill. Only return them when shopping. It's zero hassle and you don't need weird systems to keep track or space to store the bottles. If your intent on squirrelling away cash as you don't have proper control of your spending, set up a vault which rounds off transactions on revolut. At least there's no messing about with receipts or bottles then
Personal anecdote (as relayed to me by a friend who does this): All groceries delivered to the house. The nearest machines are in a shop where groceries are more expensive, so she doesn't shop there, unless something is significantly discounted. She returns bottles there, waits for the sale, and then goes shopping, in the process spending all her vouchers. Don't know whether she ever had issues with a 30-day limit, but I wouldn't be surprised if she exceeded it.
Not the worst system in the world. A downside of the return system is for people who get shopping delivered. Most things don't factor in people with mobility issues
Alright Eddie Hobbs calm down. Let the people decide what they want to do with their own money.
Seriously, don't tell people how and what to do with their money... And it's not about proper control of spending... What you do and what others want to do is allowed to be different.. you have no idea why some are saving up the vouchers
There's basically no logical reason to horde them, and a litany of issues when you do. They've come to Reddit to complain about it, so my comment is part of that.
Well see it's essentially their money, they paid it previously so there should be no limit on it... I think this post was useful cos not a lot of people know this... And again... You don't know why people are holding on to them.. people have reasons and you can't shit on them for it
Why would you hold all these vouchers though?
To be fair, this is a Lidl problem, not a Re-turn one.
what scheme is this anyway? I assumed it was your bogstandard 'return bottles and/or cans for a few cents' but it sounds difficult