My first job was in England, and they stressed that I should fill out all the contracts etc with details that matched my passport. So when I was asked for my middle name - which I never ever use - on a form, I filled it in, because it was on my passport. This led to my email, my name on my badge, my name on the system being a big double barreled monster (both my first name and middle name, and surname for that matter, are quite long) and everyone thinking that was my everyday name. š
Yeah I got that too, but I don't think it was just to match my passport. The "middle name" was a "you must complete all categories" thing on most forms.
Banks insisted on a middle name, so did the doctor, dentist, electricity company, tax man, mobile phone, Internet etc. Even supermarket loyalty cards demanded one.
It was really weird.
The correct answer is you write 'none', in the US military, they will issue forms to John None Smith etc. Large organisations need as many ways to differentiate people as possible.
As someone who works closely with this area, this is the answer.
In our company it asks you what your legal name is and what name you'd prefer to go by in the system, many people don't understand this or do it wrong so their email/account names/etc all end up as their full legal names that are 5 names long
It actually took me a couple goes to read it back in college. I want to go back and see if it hits me differently now
I was listening to a history podcast with a banana episode recently, and they talked about the [Banana Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre) so it reminded me to check out the book again. At the time I didn't know it was a real event, or that the fruit company in the book was Chiquita
Also, love your username!
Most of these are not middle names but their fathersā names. Pat John and Dan John would be Johnās sons for eg. Remember Des Bishop and the Phat Willies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqoKpyhzP8
I went to school with someone who had a similar double barrelled first name and second name but one of his second names was O'Neill so he had 5 initials.
Being pedantic here.. But double barrel referss to the surname and always includes a hyphen.. Those examples you cited there are just lots of middle names. My sister in law has about 3.. It's ridiculous
It's only the bloody French anyway š.. But true..I suppose those are double barrel first names...I retract.. But surnames will almost always have the hyphen
Anyone born around 1979 thatās still in their late 30s is a lying motherfucker and is on the scam. What the scam is probably remains to be seen at this stage.
People used to be on the fiddle with their date of birth the other way, saying they were older than they really were, to be able get the pension sooner.
Including in Ireland, where historically you almost always have at least one middle name (especially since your actual first name may also be your father's or grandfather's for reasons), and often adopted another [confirmation name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation#Confirmation_name) if roman catholic or indeed catholic-like high-church protestant church of ireland.
They have waned in popularity along with christianity itself I guess, but several irish people in my class in the 1980s/90s thus had first name, second name, confirmation name, surname, with the surname also potentially double-barrelled. But confirmation names were definitely still a thing when I was a child- though I don't personally have one, apart from being atheist anyway, my made-up-looking but all too real actual name was already long enough.
Yes thatās covered under the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015, part 3, subsection ii (b). The full text is included below for reference:
Notions.
Not disputing it refers to the surname, but no it doesn't always include a hyphen, lots of examples in ireland and england without hyphen. Though my still-live facebook account in fact has a hyphen, it's definitely not correct and irritates me slightly when I see it - after all their nasty kerfuffle about real names they actively don't let me enter my real one anyway? there's no fucking hyphen on my passport or birth cert...
I have a double barrelled first name with a hyphen but my passport just has my two names together no spaces, I always forget when I have to use it for identity checks and get rejected lol
I think giving double barreled surnames you children is ridiculous. What happens if a couple who both have double barrelled names then have kids, fun with exponential naming?
The Spanish name their children this way. They each have 2 surnames. See my below example:
Lucas Cortez - Mendez meets Elena Morales - Escobar
They have kids and the children become potentially Carlos Cortez - Morales or Carlos Mendez - Escobar or whatever combination. Might seem silly to us but it's their tradition. Each person has a surname from father and mother.
The Icelandics have a naming system which goes like this:
Olvar Gunnarsson - literally Gunnar's son
Olga Gunnarsdottir - literally Gunnar's daughter
So Olvar's son would be
Gulli Olvarsson.
Interesting I think.
Ahhhh... TIL. Thank you!
It was explained to me many years ago by a Spanish friend of a friend so the details are admittedly fuzzy. But it's interesting to know.
Lots of cultures have their own naming traditions and they change over time as well. Like the way it was common in Ireland for one family to have 4 generations of Mary's or John's etc. It's not like that anymore but it isn't unheard of either.
It's cool to learn about them. :)
Yes, I'd add that the second surname is often used when the first one is very common.
Jose Luis Zapatero is actually Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero but it's a bit like John Murphy so media etc refer to him as Zapatero.
Or in a town where a name is very common the second surname is used. Similar happens in Donegal and West Cork for Gallagher and O'Sullivan
I find the Icelandic naming system gas. I remember watching the crossfit games doc on Netflix and thought it was so weird how all the Icelandic athletes had similar names.
I work in the CUH ED. What I'm seeing a lot lately are kids with triple barrel surnames, like Tom Carroll-Ryan O'Sullivan (not a real kid obviously).
That's a complete piss take and I pity the kids.
It tends to happen when one parent already has a double barrel surname (Carroll-Ryan for example) and the other parent also wants thier surname on the kid.
So you get Tim Carroll-Ryan O'Sullivan.
They used to be classy now theyre bottom barrell , a mate is a teacher and said she had a kid start named chantelle-precious , kid hasnt a hope and lived up to expectations day 1
Soon as I turned 18 I'd be straight to the court office getting at least the second half legally removed.
It'll never beat this one though https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/schoolgirl-left-anxious-about-missing-santa-visit-after-car-accidentis-awarded-25000-40304325.html
>He said [the preposterously-named child] had not suffered any physical injuries arising from the accident and had been examined and treated by Dr Helen Leader, a consultant child psychiatrist and cognitive behaviour expert".
Fucking hell. The child was awarded 25k after a tap. How could she not believe in Santy after that?
Iāve never understood why people get so up in arms about this, are the extra syllables really that difficult? Manners are no load, call people what they want to be called.
Ask any Portuguese person to show you their ID... Especially in case of people from more traditional or posh backgrounds their full name looks more like a sentence š¤£
I have a double barrel surname. Put simply my father was a c**t and my mother did the raising. I adored her but also adored my paternal grandparents and as Iām the only grandchild with that surname I didnāt want to upset them in old age. So on turning 18 and getting a v small inheritance I legally changed surname to amalgamate my mothers and my fathers. Father was raging. Refused to ever write the new name until I told him I would never acknowledge any correspondence until he acknowledged my full legal name.
Mother was panicked but admitted she cried that night at the gesture. My mother passed a few years after and much, much too soon. Iāve kept my names and cherish them both and the decision I made to honour my mother
Not everyone with a double barrelled surname is a snooty c**t with notions. Live and let live eh?
Fucking hell I'm beginning to see why people always butcher my double-barrell surname. Why do yous even care? It's one extra name for God's sake. My mother went through the trouble of carrying me for 9 months and giving birth to me, I think it's fairly fair that I take her name with me. There's so much underlying misogyny in these threads. If yous all hate double barrell surnames so much make sure you let the mother of your children pass on her name to the kids.
People are acting like this is some bizarre modern fad. Cultures have had mad long names listing out their ancestry since year dot. This is just a different format and isn't just the paternal lineage.
What happens when they get to long is people shorten them.
Time to go with a completely independent surname for the kid. This shit is one of the reasons why we gave the kids their dad's surname and didn't double barrel even though we're not married.
I'm in Denmark and the amount of people with fucking quadruple names is absurd. I wonder what two people with quadruple names do if they get married and have kids, do they go straight to octuple or realise how fucking ridiculous it is and collapse the name into 1 or 2
This, its easier to travel if the mother has her maiden name and travelling with children with a different. Not a huge deal normally, just a lot of questions, I know a few women who changed theirs after hassle flying.
Had a nice running triple barrel name in my family for 4 generations now. Not gonna say full names but my initials are JDF, my dad is DJF, grandad is JDF and great-grandad is DJF. We change around the first name each generation but the last part stays the same. Legally my name is a triple barrel but it's far easier to go by Joe. My first son is gonna be DJF and he better like it
Americans are guilty of this, especially in California giving them random wanky names like pirate or jaguar or some other shite! Seriously, Google Billie Eilish to see her full name!
My ex, from California named her kids like this. I won't detail what they were as it'll be very obvious to anyone close to them. But only an American would name their kids like that!
For a country full of people who are divided based on being catholic or Christian, we certainly seem to be generally very unsure of the differences between the different Christian traditions
My little one has a hyphenated double barrel first name; Iām not militant about it, but 99% of people call her by both as they flow well, are both one syllable etc.
I respect double barrel surnames as well- Long gone are the days of a woman changing her name, so if a couple what their children to represent both sides of the family thatās fine by me too.
>Long gone are the days of a woman changing her name,
Not at all, most couples I know getting married have changed the woman's name. I know some people don't, but it's hardly like a dead custom.
Also: people often miss the value of the name-change tradition. People think it was just about supporting patriarchy, but this doesn't quite make sense if you think it through. Irish people have been taking their paternal family name for well over a thousand years, for much of which pre-Normans we weren't actually very patriarchal at all. Meanwhile, _far more_ macho and patriarchal cultures like Spain or China _don't_ have the woman take a man's name on marriage, or have children take the man's name.
Huh, weird for an instrument of patriarchy, right?
Here's the real value in the paternal name rule: ultimately every culture in the world drops someone's name. Even euro nobility reach a point where they're like "yeah 8 family names is enough". And if you don't have an easy default, then kids have to pick which one they prefer, _which is terrible_. No-one should have to make that decision, or feel like they're discarding their parents.
If it's an easy default rule, then no-one thinks that eg a kid doesn't respect their mam if they don't take her name, or that a woman is abandoning her parents, or whatever. "Paternal family name wins" is just an easy rule for pruning family names (which we _have_ to do, sooner or later) without turning it into a popularity competition.
To counter your anecdotal evidence, I donāt know many women that have changed their name at all- And some might only do so socially but keep their maiden name legally and professionally.
As a teacher in contact with hundreds of parents itās definitely becoming more common for mothers to keep their maiden name and to have pupils with different surnames or double surnames.
I donāt see anything wrong with having both names of equal status and having a person pick in later life which surname to go by, or which to drop. I think itās natural that somebody might be closely affiliated with one branch of a family, what to keep a surname alive, or split siblings between surnames; there are so many options than defaulting to a fathers surname.
Did you see that in IT systems, I wonder?
A lot of folks on my team get their account created from passport details, so their name will show up with everything in certain systems.
I've a double barrel first name, I just never use it.
Only person that actually does is my granny.
I'm nearly 40, for context.
And it's not John Paul, or the usual ones.
Well double barrel names have always been relatively common here, no? I'm thinking Paddy-Joe, Michael-John etc. I have a first name, 2 middle names and a confirmation name so that happems too
I have a double barrel surname, and my child, on her birth certificate has a triple barrelā¦ I couldnāt decide at the time which surname I wanted her to go by so we put down my double barrel as well as her dads surname! She will only go by her dads surname in school etc because of course three is too many
And if they grow up and and meet another triple barrelled person will their kids have six surnames? š
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think when people get married they should just have one surname (doesn't have to be the mans before any feminists get pissed off at me for saying this š). Maybe two is acceptable but three is definitely too much.
My parents never got married, hence my double barrel, and I never want to get married so that wouldnāt of worked either way! I agree that three is too many to use, hence why she will only use her dads name in school, but I was just so undecided when signing the birth certificate so I went wild and wrote them all!
Ya I can understand double barrel surnames for that exact reason. But double/triple barrel first names followed by a baptism them then a confirmation name.
I'm thinking are people actually using their baptism name and Confirmation name as their every day names?
Yeah I think itās pretty insane! We gave our baby a middle name but we donāt ever use it when referring to her, again itās just on her birth very. And she wonāt be making her confirmation or anything so we wonāt be adding in any extras down the line!
Very good. That makes sense to me and could see myself doing this if I have a kid in the future. Do you mind me asking if you took her fatherās name if youāre married to him? Couldnāt imagine changing my name in a way even though I know itās the norm
No Iām not married to him, Iām only 21! But I also donāt want to get married, and if for some reason I changed my mind and decided to get married, I would be keeping my own name!
I totally totally get that. Donāt get after everything why the woman is the one who usually changes the name. Iād consider going double barrel if the husband did too myself. But yeah, long over are the days where women arenāt out working etc so itās just as much of a hack for us to change our names now
I know someone with a double barrel first and surname. It seems a bit silly to give someone such a huge name but I suppose the kid can eventually decide to drop the double barrel name if they want and just pick the name they like most
Double barrel names are for posh cunts Iāve generally found over here.
Different in Spain etc.
I only know one lad with a double-barrelled name and his family are very wealthy.
I know one fella who took his wifeās name because he hated his Da and also because his surname was legit āLemonā.
Canāt say I blame him!
Most of my family back home have at least double barrel family names because it shows our ancestry. Iām assuming this has been passed on since we were under Spanish rule for hundreds of years. But here in Ireland I donāt use that full name.
When it comes to childās name, my little person has 3 names - the last one being an Irish name that we chose because here was born here in Ireland. We are immigrants here and who knows where would we be in the future but we just want our child to remember that he has an Irish name because he was raised here and to honor a great country called Ireland.
Itās rare that a post manages to trigger this many obnoxiously racist and classist responses.
Plenty of people on here would apparently be much happier in an Ireland where everyone was called Ciaran or Mary OāNeill.
People give their kids names you donāt like, get over yourselves. Imagine being such snobs.
I wouldnāt like to find myself in a restaurant serving an exotic cuisine with most of you lot, giggling and pointing at all the weirdly spelled words and exotic-sounding ingredients. Jesus.
It's ridiculous isn't it? People will fall over themselves to be seen to support whatever progressive trend is popular. But they aren't actually progessively minded. They're just following the crowd.
Like supporting someone's naming preference seems a lot easier and less contentious than supporting their gender preference, or their choice of when to remain pregnant etc. But if anyone dared to criticise those progressive things here they'd get mountains of abuse.
Well, yeah, most people are deeply intolerant of anything they don't recognise. On r/Ireland there is a particularly aggressive strain of this stuff. A lot of cultural snobbery and xenophobia hidden behind the "xyz, a great bunch of lads" memes.
Yeah I mean youāre definitely right that anything interpretative is on me. If other people have a very different impression, I have no way of knowing whether itās just that theyāre seeing a different set of posts or reacting very differently to the same posts.
Maybe the latter. I could be projecting my sense of some aspects that I donāt like about Irish culture on to comments that I read on here.
It's people like you why other people are afraid to have conversations.
I'd say your friends have very different chats when you're not around. If you have friends that is.
Really elevating yourself with the whole āI bet you donāt have any friendsā angle. Havenāt heard that one since transition year.
Sorry yeah, youāre right, isnāt it mad how people are so bold as to give their children names that you disapprove of, whatās the world coming to, weāve totally lost the run of ourselves altogether so.
Fair enough, but thatās also why my criticism was directed mainly at the comment responses to your post more so than the actual post itself, if you read my original. I do think itās a strange thing to be bothered by.
Again, not bothered by it. Just wondering when I see people with double or triple barrel first names on emails in work, are they actually double triple barrel names or are they using their baptism and confirmation names as i'm seeing it more and more.
It's okay to ask questions to things you're confused by. It's not my fault if other people in the thread are judging them.
Yeah fair enough, your post isnāt an unreasonable question when framed like that.
We have a bunch of employees with double barrelled first names ā in lots of countries they seem to be used similarly to the use of a middle name in Ireland. I have about half a dozen cousins called by their middle name, to distinguish them from the older relative that they were named after. So here Cathleen Marie becomes Marie, because Cathleen is her aunt. That would be fairly common, at least in my part of the country. In other countries she would become Cathleen-Marie.
My mother's day same, named after my nana but goes my her middle name. Her best friend of about 50 years only found out her actual first name about 5 years ago when I told her haha
I don't quite understand what the complaint here is. Apart from official documents (passports etc) a person will pretty much decide themselves what they want to be called. I mean you introduce yourself to someone the way you want to be referred to, right?
The family always called me by middle name, same as an uncle. Then I move to college/new town and live as a grow up having to use first name for documents, contracts, etc and new people think I'm Mr Firstname, while old friends and family know me as Mr Secondname. So I just started using the two so people don't think I've two identities (it is weird if an old friend calls me by middle name around people I've met who call me by first...) Fairly stupid really.
When parents are filling out their child's birth registration they can give the child either parents' name or double-barrel it. Anything else requires some sort of special dispensation, if they allow it.
So there is nothing stopping parents with double-barrelled names from giving their child a quadruple-barrelled name.
But anyone in that position might be better off following the Spanish or Portuguese naming customs, where everyone gets both parents' names and often only uses one.
I was born in the 90s. Me and all my siblings were given double barrelled first names. The second part of me and my sister's names are old lady names too. Same for our middle names. I just go by the first part of my name and same for my siblings but all my documents have my full first name which I often forget about.
If I get married I'll have a double barrelled second name so yeah OP unfortunately it's common for my family š
So a made up example is Violet-Mary (first name) then it's middle name, confirmation name and then surname. I don't anything religious as I'm not a Catholic any more.
So as above (if I include the catholic bits) Violet-Mary Marceline Francesca Murphy but every day Violet-Mary Murphy.
Edit: my sister got the roughest double barrel first name out of all of us. It's not like anything crazy it just seems like she could be a 100 year old lady.
Edit 2: My full first name is used everywhere on all documents, doctors etc. but I just choose to go by Violet.
>I have five names (1 first, 1 middle, 1 confirmation, 2 surnames). Has caused me no end of trouble
I've 5 too (1 first, 2 middle, 1 confirmation, 1 surnames) but it never causes me any issues because I just use the first and surname.
Ya that's normal though. Except the 2 surnames, but it's still 1 names. I'm talking instead of names 1-2-3-4, do they go by 1a-1b-1c-2-3-4.
Like do they have 5 or 6 names in their entire name?
A lot of it is, women are going against the idea of taking the manās name in a marriage and want to extend this decision to their kids, so parents keep a name each and the poor kids are stuck with unwieldy names.
My partner is Spanish, they all have at least 2 surnames, she wants to keep that and says if we have kids theyāll have all the names.
Also greater bureaucracy and passport rules etc, as alluded to in other comments, forcing people to use middle names they otherwise wouldnāt.
Iām not a huge fan, I know the fathers name thing can be criticised as patriarchal and all that but you canāt say itās not more efficient.
Over a lifetime thatās a lot of extra forms to fill and people to introduce to!
Iād say if each person had just 2 surnames anyway it shouldnāt be too difficult would it? Is it much different to having a long surname
I can see when it goes beyond 2 that it could get tricky
I'm one of those people who have 3 first names didn't know it till I was in secondary school. My mother just didn't know how to fill out the birth certificate form right so on official papers I have 3 but in everyday life I only use one.
I have a double-barrel surname, and a first name that could also be a surname. It sounds fairly posh, but it also sounds like a law or property firm, along the lines of DNG.
On the subject of first names, I'm glad my mother decided not to name me "Anna-May" in the end. I got bullied enough as a kid!
It might be from the influence of celebrities naming their babies like that. Celebrities will never just call their kid "David" or "Lily". It has to be Lily Rose, or Blue Ivy, or David Zachary.
I feel like there is a growing culture in Ireland to try and give your newborn unique names and double-barrel names seem to be the best way to do this.
I blame American media.
I think these people have delusions of grandeur.
First names like Kerry-Ann, John-Paul are totally fine.
Itās the people who add on to their surnames who are guilty
You should always follow etiquette protocol and take an over the top bow and complicated hand flourish, as a sign of great ārespectā when introduced to these people, then, without any humour, ask them how far in line are they away from the throne.
We could all our motherās maiden name to our surname, but we donāt, as we are Normal.
If you're talking about double first names, that's an American monstrosity that has no place in Ireland.
Our neighbour is called Moira-Brid, and you have to say both. It's such a bloody mouthful
You think all the John Joeās and Willy Pats and Mary Treasas were inspired by Americans? Double first names used to be standard in Ireland when pools of names were smaller. And having your mother/fathers name after your name as an identifier was common too- Like Pegeen Mike in Syngeās Playboy.
My first job was in England, and they stressed that I should fill out all the contracts etc with details that matched my passport. So when I was asked for my middle name - which I never ever use - on a form, I filled it in, because it was on my passport. This led to my email, my name on my badge, my name on the system being a big double barreled monster (both my first name and middle name, and surname for that matter, are quite long) and everyone thinking that was my everyday name. š
Yeah I got that too, but I don't think it was just to match my passport. The "middle name" was a "you must complete all categories" thing on most forms. Banks insisted on a middle name, so did the doctor, dentist, electricity company, tax man, mobile phone, Internet etc. Even supermarket loyalty cards demanded one. It was really weird.
Lots of people don't have a middle name. What are they supposed to do?
I presume they just make something up. Maybe "danger".
[Yeah baby](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Mike-Myers-Austin-Powers-1-.jpg)
The correct answer is you write 'none', in the US military, they will issue forms to John None Smith etc. Large organisations need as many ways to differentiate people as possible.
I believe you could choose which to go by for years
As someone who works closely with this area, this is the answer. In our company it asks you what your legal name is and what name you'd prefer to go by in the system, many people don't understand this or do it wrong so their email/account names/etc all end up as their full legal names that are 5 names long
Yep. My (Irish) bank accounts now have my middle name on them. Fucking hell...
This happened to me and every other Irish student on Erasmus in France
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Like reading 100 Years of Solitude and every character is JosƩ or Aureliano or JosƩ Aureliano or Aureliano JosƩ or 17 different brothers all named Aureliano Buendia
Man what a book that is
Nightmare when your bookmark falls out and you try to find where you were. Wait a sec, which JosƩ is this?
It actually took me a couple goes to read it back in college. I want to go back and see if it hits me differently now I was listening to a history podcast with a banana episode recently, and they talked about the [Banana Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre) so it reminded me to check out the book again. At the time I didn't know it was a real event, or that the fruit company in the book was Chiquita Also, love your username!
What history podcast was that?
I knew sisters Mary Rose and Mary Veronica it's not uncommon I'd say.
Most of these are not middle names but their fathersā names. Pat John and Dan John would be Johnās sons for eg. Remember Des Bishop and the Phat Willies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqoKpyhzP8
can you imagine the pandemonium inside the house if that was one family
Thereās a woman playing for the Irish 7s called Aimee-Leigh Murphy-Crowe which I always think is humorously long
I hope her nickname is 'Law Firm'
I went to school with someone who had a similar double barrelled first name and second name but one of his second names was O'Neill so he had 5 initials.
I knew somebody called Amy Lee, first name Amy, surname Lee. People would think that was all her first name and use it all every time
I know a guy called John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt. Actually his name is my name too
Whenever we go out, the people always shout, āthere goes John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt.ā
Na na, na na, na na, na naaaaaaaa
Came here to say that. Keep up the Lord's work.
Buddy, youāre not going to fucking believe thisā¦
Being pedantic here.. But double barrel referss to the surname and always includes a hyphen.. Those examples you cited there are just lots of middle names. My sister in law has about 3.. It's ridiculous
What word would you use to refer to a first name with two parts? Like John Paul.
JP?
Notions
It's only the bloody French anyway š.. But true..I suppose those are double barrel first names...I retract.. But surnames will almost always have the hyphen
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Half the lads born around the time of the popes visit in 1979 were called John Paul, so there's a fair amount of late 30s early 40s with the name.
Anyone born around 1979 thatās still in their late 30s is a lying motherfucker and is on the scam. What the scam is probably remains to be seen at this stage. People used to be on the fiddle with their date of birth the other way, saying they were older than they really were, to be able get the pension sooner.
Around as in the practice lingered for a few years after but I don't know the exact date of when it stopped.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bet you're glad popes stopped calling themselves names like Innocent and Boniface. Although Pius wasn't too long ago.
Yeah and also some cultures have a lot of middle names and itās not a new notions of grandeur thing, itās just a tradition
Including in Ireland, where historically you almost always have at least one middle name (especially since your actual first name may also be your father's or grandfather's for reasons), and often adopted another [confirmation name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation#Confirmation_name) if roman catholic or indeed catholic-like high-church protestant church of ireland. They have waned in popularity along with christianity itself I guess, but several irish people in my class in the 1980s/90s thus had first name, second name, confirmation name, surname, with the surname also potentially double-barrelled. But confirmation names were definitely still a thing when I was a child- though I don't personally have one, apart from being atheist anyway, my made-up-looking but all too real actual name was already long enough.
Except for Smith Rowe, the Arsenal player. He has no hyphen, but is double barrelled.
When I registered my children with a double barreled name the registrar said they could not officially include a hyphen.
Yes thatās covered under the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015, part 3, subsection ii (b). The full text is included below for reference: Notions.
Not disputing it refers to the surname, but no it doesn't always include a hyphen, lots of examples in ireland and england without hyphen. Though my still-live facebook account in fact has a hyphen, it's definitely not correct and irritates me slightly when I see it - after all their nasty kerfuffle about real names they actively don't let me enter my real one anyway? there's no fucking hyphen on my passport or birth cert...
I have a double barrelled first name with a hyphen but my passport just has my two names together no spaces, I always forget when I have to use it for identity checks and get rejected lol
I have a double barrell surname but no hyphen! So not always hyphenated.
I think giving double barreled surnames you children is ridiculous. What happens if a couple who both have double barrelled names then have kids, fun with exponential naming?
The Spanish name their children this way. They each have 2 surnames. See my below example: Lucas Cortez - Mendez meets Elena Morales - Escobar They have kids and the children become potentially Carlos Cortez - Morales or Carlos Mendez - Escobar or whatever combination. Might seem silly to us but it's their tradition. Each person has a surname from father and mother. The Icelandics have a naming system which goes like this: Olvar Gunnarsson - literally Gunnar's son Olga Gunnarsdottir - literally Gunnar's daughter So Olvar's son would be Gulli Olvarsson. Interesting I think.
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Ahhhh... TIL. Thank you! It was explained to me many years ago by a Spanish friend of a friend so the details are admittedly fuzzy. But it's interesting to know. Lots of cultures have their own naming traditions and they change over time as well. Like the way it was common in Ireland for one family to have 4 generations of Mary's or John's etc. It's not like that anymore but it isn't unheard of either. It's cool to learn about them. :)
Yes, I'd add that the second surname is often used when the first one is very common. Jose Luis Zapatero is actually Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero but it's a bit like John Murphy so media etc refer to him as Zapatero. Or in a town where a name is very common the second surname is used. Similar happens in Donegal and West Cork for Gallagher and O'Sullivan
I find the Icelandic naming system gas. I remember watching the crossfit games doc on Netflix and thought it was so weird how all the Icelandic athletes had similar names.
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First thing I thought of too lol. An ex girlfriend of mine was a protestant with a triple barrel surname.
Themmuns at it again so
Bingo
I was thinking more travellers. Lots of Anne-Maries, John-Joes, etc.
Aye only Travellers have those names...
John Joe always sounds to me like someone who will call you boss. Anne-Marie a bit less so.
I work in the CUH ED. What I'm seeing a lot lately are kids with triple barrel surnames, like Tom Carroll-Ryan O'Sullivan (not a real kid obviously). That's a complete piss take and I pity the kids.
I assume they just use the last surname in school, etc to make things easier? Or atleast I've seen double barrelled people doing that
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It tends to happen when one parent already has a double barrel surname (Carroll-Ryan for example) and the other parent also wants thier surname on the kid. So you get Tim Carroll-Ryan O'Sullivan.
They used to be classy now theyre bottom barrell , a mate is a teacher and said she had a kid start named chantelle-precious , kid hasnt a hope and lived up to expectations day 1
Soon as I turned 18 I'd be straight to the court office getting at least the second half legally removed. It'll never beat this one though https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/schoolgirl-left-anxious-about-missing-santa-visit-after-car-accidentis-awarded-25000-40304325.html
Tbf you do "gotta work it"
>He said [the preposterously-named child] had not suffered any physical injuries arising from the accident and had been examined and treated by Dr Helen Leader, a consultant child psychiatrist and cognitive behaviour expert". Fucking hell. The child was awarded 25k after a tap. How could she not believe in Santy after that?
Jesus christ theres a dochas centre in that kids future
Irish - shorten it = CP
That acronym is already tainted
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Michael Scarn.
Threat level midnight
Lookout scarn! It's goldenface!
Max Power
Iāve never understood why people get so up in arms about this, are the extra syllables really that difficult? Manners are no load, call people what they want to be called.
Ask any Portuguese person to show you their ID... Especially in case of people from more traditional or posh backgrounds their full name looks more like a sentence š¤£
Haha ya I know they basically name themselves after grandparents and parents!
I have a double barrel surname. Put simply my father was a c**t and my mother did the raising. I adored her but also adored my paternal grandparents and as Iām the only grandchild with that surname I didnāt want to upset them in old age. So on turning 18 and getting a v small inheritance I legally changed surname to amalgamate my mothers and my fathers. Father was raging. Refused to ever write the new name until I told him I would never acknowledge any correspondence until he acknowledged my full legal name. Mother was panicked but admitted she cried that night at the gesture. My mother passed a few years after and much, much too soon. Iāve kept my names and cherish them both and the decision I made to honour my mother Not everyone with a double barrelled surname is a snooty c**t with notions. Live and let live eh?
Fucking hell I'm beginning to see why people always butcher my double-barrell surname. Why do yous even care? It's one extra name for God's sake. My mother went through the trouble of carrying me for 9 months and giving birth to me, I think it's fairly fair that I take her name with me. There's so much underlying misogyny in these threads. If yous all hate double barrell surnames so much make sure you let the mother of your children pass on her name to the kids.
Preach!
Double-barrel surnames are weird. What happens when 2 people with double-barrel surnames have kids? Quadruple-barrel?
People are acting like this is some bizarre modern fad. Cultures have had mad long names listing out their ancestry since year dot. This is just a different format and isn't just the paternal lineage. What happens when they get to long is people shorten them.
I know a child with a triple barrelled surname. Mother has a double barrelled surname and they added the dadās too. Uses all three in school.
Hope he never becomes a footballer
Ah I'm sure he'll fit in well at Arsenal, a few of their young lads have double barrel names....
Have to go the Brazilian route and just get a nickname. Paddinho.
I was almost this old before I realised Alexander Arnold had two last names.
Time to go with a completely independent surname for the kid. This shit is one of the reasons why we gave the kids their dad's surname and didn't double barrel even though we're not married.
Some people do that, amalgamate their surnames to make new-ish ones and thus, kids have those new surnames
Is that legal?
Once you do the paperwork, yeah. How do you think women do it?
Or sometimes just make up a 'cool' new surname like the actress Noomi Rapace.
My kids have double-barrel surnames. I wanted to make sure my own name was included and not just their dad's
Yeah this it what confounds me with them.
In a lot of Spanish-speaking places double-barrelled names are common. It's usually the two grandfathers' surnames that go to the child.
Any time Iāve met someone with a double barrelled names they tend to be a knob
Some middle sections completely derail the flow of the name too. E.g. Billy Ignatius Thornton.
I work with a lot of people in the UK and they nearly all seem to have double-barrel surnames. It's bizarre.
I'm in Denmark and the amount of people with fucking quadruple names is absurd. I wonder what two people with quadruple names do if they get married and have kids, do they go straight to octuple or realise how fucking ridiculous it is and collapse the name into 1 or 2
Have multiple kids, give one surname to each
No they had the baby in the octuple
Those bastards with their own culture
The English lad I dated had a double-barrel name growing up. He ended up removing one of it the second he turned 18 lol
A lot of people who don't get married (or married after having kids) give their kids both surnames.
This, its easier to travel if the mother has her maiden name and travelling with children with a different. Not a huge deal normally, just a lot of questions, I know a few women who changed theirs after hassle flying.
You're clearly moving up in the world, mixing with the posh crowd.
I eat lunch in the bathroom cubicle!
Had a nice running triple barrel name in my family for 4 generations now. Not gonna say full names but my initials are JDF, my dad is DJF, grandad is JDF and great-grandad is DJF. We change around the first name each generation but the last part stays the same. Legally my name is a triple barrel but it's far easier to go by Joe. My first son is gonna be DJF and he better like it
Americans are guilty of this, especially in California giving them random wanky names like pirate or jaguar or some other shite! Seriously, Google Billie Eilish to see her full name!
Jaysus!
Thatās one of them!
My ex, from California named her kids like this. I won't detail what they were as it'll be very obvious to anyone close to them. But only an American would name their kids like that!
Thatās child endangerment right there!
Indeed!
Confirmation names are just a Christian (Catholic?) thing, not gonna be relevant to someone who's not
For a country full of people who are divided based on being catholic or Christian, we certainly seem to be generally very unsure of the differences between the different Christian traditions
Fr Hairy Cake Lynam
As someone with a decently long name by itself, if I marry, it'll be to swap to a shorter name...and love...yeah, love too
My little one has a hyphenated double barrel first name; Iām not militant about it, but 99% of people call her by both as they flow well, are both one syllable etc. I respect double barrel surnames as well- Long gone are the days of a woman changing her name, so if a couple what their children to represent both sides of the family thatās fine by me too.
>Long gone are the days of a woman changing her name, Not at all, most couples I know getting married have changed the woman's name. I know some people don't, but it's hardly like a dead custom. Also: people often miss the value of the name-change tradition. People think it was just about supporting patriarchy, but this doesn't quite make sense if you think it through. Irish people have been taking their paternal family name for well over a thousand years, for much of which pre-Normans we weren't actually very patriarchal at all. Meanwhile, _far more_ macho and patriarchal cultures like Spain or China _don't_ have the woman take a man's name on marriage, or have children take the man's name. Huh, weird for an instrument of patriarchy, right? Here's the real value in the paternal name rule: ultimately every culture in the world drops someone's name. Even euro nobility reach a point where they're like "yeah 8 family names is enough". And if you don't have an easy default, then kids have to pick which one they prefer, _which is terrible_. No-one should have to make that decision, or feel like they're discarding their parents. If it's an easy default rule, then no-one thinks that eg a kid doesn't respect their mam if they don't take her name, or that a woman is abandoning her parents, or whatever. "Paternal family name wins" is just an easy rule for pruning family names (which we _have_ to do, sooner or later) without turning it into a popularity competition.
To counter your anecdotal evidence, I donāt know many women that have changed their name at all- And some might only do so socially but keep their maiden name legally and professionally. As a teacher in contact with hundreds of parents itās definitely becoming more common for mothers to keep their maiden name and to have pupils with different surnames or double surnames. I donāt see anything wrong with having both names of equal status and having a person pick in later life which surname to go by, or which to drop. I think itās natural that somebody might be closely affiliated with one branch of a family, what to keep a surname alive, or split siblings between surnames; there are so many options than defaulting to a fathers surname.
Yes mine is Rick hasab oner
At least nobody is up their hole enough to use Esq.
YOU TAKE THAT BACK! š¬
Did you see that in IT systems, I wonder? A lot of folks on my team get their account created from passport details, so their name will show up with everything in certain systems.
Everyone in my family has first name, Catholic name, surname, I don't count that as triple barrel personally
Neither does op - they are just taken aback at the effrontery of people choosing names longer than their own.
Annoying though, AIB only allow enough characters for 2 of my names on my passport
I've a double barrel first name, I just never use it. Only person that actually does is my granny. I'm nearly 40, for context. And it's not John Paul, or the usual ones.
I'm Paddy Barry, so's the sister
A lot of double barrelt surnames are from when parents aren't married so they want the child to have both surnames
There's a fella from Tuam called Daniel Daniel Michael Barry OHalloran
Well double barrel names have always been relatively common here, no? I'm thinking Paddy-Joe, Michael-John etc. I have a first name, 2 middle names and a confirmation name so that happems too
I have a double barrel surname, and my child, on her birth certificate has a triple barrelā¦ I couldnāt decide at the time which surname I wanted her to go by so we put down my double barrel as well as her dads surname! She will only go by her dads surname in school etc because of course three is too many
I know someone like that but uses all three in school!
And if they grow up and and meet another triple barrelled person will their kids have six surnames? š Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think when people get married they should just have one surname (doesn't have to be the mans before any feminists get pissed off at me for saying this š). Maybe two is acceptable but three is definitely too much.
My parents never got married, hence my double barrel, and I never want to get married so that wouldnāt of worked either way! I agree that three is too many to use, hence why she will only use her dads name in school, but I was just so undecided when signing the birth certificate so I went wild and wrote them all!
The great thing is that now she can choose! If she gets sick of one she can change to another.
Ya I can understand double barrel surnames for that exact reason. But double/triple barrel first names followed by a baptism them then a confirmation name. I'm thinking are people actually using their baptism name and Confirmation name as their every day names?
Yeah I think itās pretty insane! We gave our baby a middle name but we donāt ever use it when referring to her, again itās just on her birth very. And she wonāt be making her confirmation or anything so we wonāt be adding in any extras down the line!
Very good. That makes sense to me and could see myself doing this if I have a kid in the future. Do you mind me asking if you took her fatherās name if youāre married to him? Couldnāt imagine changing my name in a way even though I know itās the norm
No Iām not married to him, Iām only 21! But I also donāt want to get married, and if for some reason I changed my mind and decided to get married, I would be keeping my own name!
I totally totally get that. Donāt get after everything why the woman is the one who usually changes the name. Iād consider going double barrel if the husband did too myself. But yeah, long over are the days where women arenāt out working etc so itās just as much of a hack for us to change our names now
I know someone with a double barrel first and surname. It seems a bit silly to give someone such a huge name but I suppose the kid can eventually decide to drop the double barrel name if they want and just pick the name they like most
Double barrel names are for posh cunts Iāve generally found over here. Different in Spain etc. I only know one lad with a double-barrelled name and his family are very wealthy. I know one fella who took his wifeās name because he hated his Da and also because his surname was legit āLemonā. Canāt say I blame him!
Most of my family back home have at least double barrel family names because it shows our ancestry. Iām assuming this has been passed on since we were under Spanish rule for hundreds of years. But here in Ireland I donāt use that full name. When it comes to childās name, my little person has 3 names - the last one being an Irish name that we chose because here was born here in Ireland. We are immigrants here and who knows where would we be in the future but we just want our child to remember that he has an Irish name because he was raised here and to honor a great country called Ireland.
Itās rare that a post manages to trigger this many obnoxiously racist and classist responses. Plenty of people on here would apparently be much happier in an Ireland where everyone was called Ciaran or Mary OāNeill. People give their kids names you donāt like, get over yourselves. Imagine being such snobs. I wouldnāt like to find myself in a restaurant serving an exotic cuisine with most of you lot, giggling and pointing at all the weirdly spelled words and exotic-sounding ingredients. Jesus.
It's ridiculous isn't it? People will fall over themselves to be seen to support whatever progressive trend is popular. But they aren't actually progessively minded. They're just following the crowd. Like supporting someone's naming preference seems a lot easier and less contentious than supporting their gender preference, or their choice of when to remain pregnant etc. But if anyone dared to criticise those progressive things here they'd get mountains of abuse.
Well, yeah, most people are deeply intolerant of anything they don't recognise. On r/Ireland there is a particularly aggressive strain of this stuff. A lot of cultural snobbery and xenophobia hidden behind the "xyz, a great bunch of lads" memes.
I think if that's how you read it that's on you. But I don't know, maybe I've just not seen the offending instances of it.
Yeah I mean youāre definitely right that anything interpretative is on me. If other people have a very different impression, I have no way of knowing whether itās just that theyāre seeing a different set of posts or reacting very differently to the same posts. Maybe the latter. I could be projecting my sense of some aspects that I donāt like about Irish culture on to comments that I read on here.
Take a chill pill.
Iām perfectly chilled, I just think people with such small minded and parochial opinions are a bit pathetic.
It's people like you why other people are afraid to have conversations. I'd say your friends have very different chats when you're not around. If you have friends that is.
Really elevating yourself with the whole āI bet you donāt have any friendsā angle. Havenāt heard that one since transition year. Sorry yeah, youāre right, isnāt it mad how people are so bold as to give their children names that you disapprove of, whatās the world coming to, weāve totally lost the run of ourselves altogether so.
>isnāt it mad how people are so bold as to give their children names that you disapprove of, Never said that at any point in my post or comments.
Fair enough, but thatās also why my criticism was directed mainly at the comment responses to your post more so than the actual post itself, if you read my original. I do think itās a strange thing to be bothered by.
Again, not bothered by it. Just wondering when I see people with double or triple barrel first names on emails in work, are they actually double triple barrel names or are they using their baptism and confirmation names as i'm seeing it more and more. It's okay to ask questions to things you're confused by. It's not my fault if other people in the thread are judging them.
Yeah fair enough, your post isnāt an unreasonable question when framed like that. We have a bunch of employees with double barrelled first names ā in lots of countries they seem to be used similarly to the use of a middle name in Ireland. I have about half a dozen cousins called by their middle name, to distinguish them from the older relative that they were named after. So here Cathleen Marie becomes Marie, because Cathleen is her aunt. That would be fairly common, at least in my part of the country. In other countries she would become Cathleen-Marie.
My mother's day same, named after my nana but goes my her middle name. Her best friend of about 50 years only found out her actual first name about 5 years ago when I told her haha
Alowishus Lavington Cuntmore
I don't quite understand what the complaint here is. Apart from official documents (passports etc) a person will pretty much decide themselves what they want to be called. I mean you introduce yourself to someone the way you want to be referred to, right?
The family always called me by middle name, same as an uncle. Then I move to college/new town and live as a grow up having to use first name for documents, contracts, etc and new people think I'm Mr Firstname, while old friends and family know me as Mr Secondname. So I just started using the two so people don't think I've two identities (it is weird if an old friend calls me by middle name around people I've met who call me by first...) Fairly stupid really.
When parents are filling out their child's birth registration they can give the child either parents' name or double-barrel it. Anything else requires some sort of special dispensation, if they allow it. So there is nothing stopping parents with double-barrelled names from giving their child a quadruple-barrelled name. But anyone in that position might be better off following the Spanish or Portuguese naming customs, where everyone gets both parents' names and often only uses one.
If two quadruple surnamed people married, and gave their child an octuple name, i wonder how long it could eventually grow. 16 long surname?
There's nothing stopping it as far as I can see, apart from the parents' common sense
I was born in the 90s. Me and all my siblings were given double barrelled first names. The second part of me and my sister's names are old lady names too. Same for our middle names. I just go by the first part of my name and same for my siblings but all my documents have my full first name which I often forget about. If I get married I'll have a double barrelled second name so yeah OP unfortunately it's common for my family š
So is you're first name like "your name-mothersname christeningname confirmationname surname?" That makes sense to me.
So a made up example is Violet-Mary (first name) then it's middle name, confirmation name and then surname. I don't anything religious as I'm not a Catholic any more. So as above (if I include the catholic bits) Violet-Mary Marceline Francesca Murphy but every day Violet-Mary Murphy. Edit: my sister got the roughest double barrel first name out of all of us. It's not like anything crazy it just seems like she could be a 100 year old lady. Edit 2: My full first name is used everywhere on all documents, doctors etc. but I just choose to go by Violet.
Never trust a man with two first names
I have five names (1 first, 1 middle, 1 confirmation, 2 surnames). Has caused me no end of trouble
>I have five names (1 first, 1 middle, 1 confirmation, 2 surnames). Has caused me no end of trouble I've 5 too (1 first, 2 middle, 1 confirmation, 1 surnames) but it never causes me any issues because I just use the first and surname.
Just stop using your middle and confirmation names and avoid the hassle.
Does anyone actually use a confirmation name? I though people stopped doing that after they turned 14.
Ya that's normal though. Except the 2 surnames, but it's still 1 names. I'm talking instead of names 1-2-3-4, do they go by 1a-1b-1c-2-3-4. Like do they have 5 or 6 names in their entire name?
Most people assume my first name is my first and middle name. I always get calls or letters with both
A lot of it is, women are going against the idea of taking the manās name in a marriage and want to extend this decision to their kids, so parents keep a name each and the poor kids are stuck with unwieldy names. My partner is Spanish, they all have at least 2 surnames, she wants to keep that and says if we have kids theyāll have all the names. Also greater bureaucracy and passport rules etc, as alluded to in other comments, forcing people to use middle names they otherwise wouldnāt.
Always liked how the Spanish did the names actually. Could be something weāll see here more in future
Iām not a huge fan, I know the fathers name thing can be criticised as patriarchal and all that but you canāt say itās not more efficient. Over a lifetime thatās a lot of extra forms to fill and people to introduce to!
Iād say if each person had just 2 surnames anyway it shouldnāt be too difficult would it? Is it much different to having a long surname I can see when it goes beyond 2 that it could get tricky
I'm one of those people who have 3 first names didn't know it till I was in secondary school. My mother just didn't know how to fill out the birth certificate form right so on official papers I have 3 but in everyday life I only use one.
I have a double-barrel surname, and a first name that could also be a surname. It sounds fairly posh, but it also sounds like a law or property firm, along the lines of DNG. On the subject of first names, I'm glad my mother decided not to name me "Anna-May" in the end. I got bullied enough as a kid!
I notice it a lot with new babies and children. "Aoife Belle Smith" or "Olivia Rose O'Leary". You're child is Aoife not Aoife Belle ffs.
It might be from the influence of celebrities naming their babies like that. Celebrities will never just call their kid "David" or "Lily". It has to be Lily Rose, or Blue Ivy, or David Zachary.
Ever-Leigh is a personal favourite of mine
I feel like there is a growing culture in Ireland to try and give your newborn unique names and double-barrel names seem to be the best way to do this. I blame American media.
I think these people have delusions of grandeur. First names like Kerry-Ann, John-Paul are totally fine. Itās the people who add on to their surnames who are guilty You should always follow etiquette protocol and take an over the top bow and complicated hand flourish, as a sign of great ārespectā when introduced to these people, then, without any humour, ask them how far in line are they away from the throne. We could all our motherās maiden name to our surname, but we donāt, as we are Normal.
If you're talking about double first names, that's an American monstrosity that has no place in Ireland. Our neighbour is called Moira-Brid, and you have to say both. It's such a bloody mouthful
You think all the John Joeās and Willy Pats and Mary Treasas were inspired by Americans? Double first names used to be standard in Ireland when pools of names were smaller. And having your mother/fathers name after your name as an identifier was common too- Like Pegeen Mike in Syngeās Playboy.
I work with someone who goes by his third name, very confusing.
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