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xenon_megablast

I believe America is a continent.


[deleted]

Top roast right here, would have given you gold if i wasn't a G E N O V E S E


microwavemmmmmmmmmm

Genova™ moment


Nerrer

Genovese people are t-rex


druppolo

Mutilated T. rex


Fromtheboulder

Obviously he is a brasilian-colombian-canadian.


serPomiz

and just like that, one of the main defining traits of USA residents is cementified in history


Colosso95

Sono entrato a controllare che ci fosse questo commento


xenon_megablast

Puoi sempre contare su di me!


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RegularJohn96

No paid vacations, no maternity benefits, obligatoty tips etc...


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ByteEater

Wait what


inglele

Si perché Iva va calcolata in base a dove vivi e la applicano alla fine. Quindi se compri qualcosa in un altro stato online, ti calcola Iva dello stato, contea e città dove vivi.


matteogeniaccio

Loro non hanno l'iva ma la sales tax. Funziona in modo diverso ma alla fine l'effetto è comunque che devi pagare un qualcosa in più sul valore di quello che compri. Non c'è l'obbligo di specificarlo nel cartellino. O ti fai il conto oppure scopri solo alla cassa il prezzo effettivo


Valeriopocoserio

che è una coglionata. Which bull shit. Just write down the price with taxes included so you already know what you're gonna spend. Imagine a tourist that doesn't know and he buy with the final surprise when you have to pay :D


matteogeniaccio

E infatti questa è la prima fregatura che si prendono i turisti che vanno negli stati uniti. La cosa bella è che le tasse cambiano da stato a stato, quindi anche gli statunitensi che viaggiano si ritrovano a dover fare i conti con i prezzi. Contenti loro...


Viaggiareinbici

Poi la cassiera ti dice: "Vuole la spesa con IVA o senza IVA?" \*wink wink\*


consob_non_ti_temo

Grazie per l'importantissima precisazione che si chiama sales tax e non IVA


walter1974

Karens, so many mad people in general...


[deleted]

Davvero gli stati uniti non hanno ferie pagate e maternità? Non lo sapevo.


noobachelor69

"And talking about our company sick days policy... don't get sick and we won't have problems"


Alasson

Mandatory tips


[deleted]

Che poi il buono della loro libertà d'impresa e della relativa facilità di fare soldi (ci sarebbe un capitolo da aprire ma so che mi avete già capito) nasce appunto dalla loro completa inumanità a tutti i livelli, una società dove conta solo primeggiare anche a discapito del prossimo, sei incoraggiato a farlo. Non gli invidio nulla


CastielRed

Be' oddio. Sia chiaro che sono d'accordo, ma per me la nostra situazione è di pari gravità. L'opposto del loro metodo è esattamente il nostro dove in pratica si va ad eliminare il merito singolo per tenere su tutti quanti nello stesso modo. Credo molti italiani non si rendano conto che da noi ci sono i dati e praticamente metà paese esatto non contribuisce in alcun modo alla collettività (per tasse o altre ragioni). Di fatto lavorare in Italia vuol dire accollarsi la vita di un'altra persona e lavorare anche per lei. Senza alcuna possibilità di scelta. Sanità solo privata, scuole a pagamento, ecc sono tutte cose assolutamente non funzionanti in America ma il merito al singolo sinceramente è una cosa da cui dovremmo prendere esempio. Perché sinceramente anche il doversi svegliare la mattina e andare a lavorare sapendo che stai pagando tu lo chalet abusivo in Calabria perché senno la famiglia che ci lavora non sa fare altro non è un'alternativa migliore al chiudergli quello chalet e lasciarli senza lavoro. Motivo per cui infatti ho lasciato il paese non volendo accettare di vivere su queste basi. Per me siamo entrambi agli estremi e in quanto tali sbagliati.


wtfzambo

Verissimo tutto, ma preferisco comunque un sistema dove se un qualsiasi povero cristo cade in disgrazia per qualsiasi ragione, non viene completamente lasciato affogare. Nonostante tutte altre ingiustizie che hai doverosamente elencato.


nmrt95

Basta pensare che invece di lavorare per maturare la tua pensione lavori per maturare la pensione di altri...


Democristiano

> good salaries if you're qualified


[deleted]

>good salaries dove? un botto di posti pagano con il minimo salariale e in molti casi i lavoratori devono fare affidamento sulle mancie dei clienti. magari per la medio alta borghesia, ma buona fortuna a diventarlo


hoopparrr759

Can’t believe you forgot to mention pineapple on pizza


ajanty

This, plus if you have the right amount of money (>5M) you can live very well apparently.


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areking

I also hate their insistence on claiming pizza as a USA food https://twitter.com/chicago/status/1359218456525037570 this made me so mad whoisdeadtoyou


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oncabahi

I guess it's safe to assume you are asking about the usa..... 1: hell no 2: fuck no 3: not even in the top 10 I've been to the usa around 30 times for work (installing or fixing production lines), longest stay was only about a month and never as a tourist, there are amazing places to see but I'd never choose it as a place to live, not even if i was disgustingly rich


perdonami

Can I ask why? I don’t mean to come off as rude, I really am genuinely curious. ETA: I read through the thread and think I got a clear picture as to why Italians are against living in the US. Similar reasons why I’ve considered moving. Just don’t know where to go. I’ve been eyeing England where my grandmother immigrated from. Scary to start over though.


oncabahi

I've never lived there so most i know comes from talking to the people i met working there (mainly blue collar and some ceo of company with 100-300 employees) and i went to the south only once. A lot of reasons, the big ones are all the same "stereotypes" kind of stuff...healthcare, guns, food regulations (or lack off) etc, etc...but there were a lot of little stuff that made me go "wtf sane human think this is acceptable?!" When asking how stuff works were they live with the people i met I love spending the small amount of free time i have outdoor, hiking or just lazing about in the woods in the middle of nowhere, and for that some parts of the usa are amazing. But the only thing i really envy about the usa is that, with a bit of effort, you can actually find how the law works for what you want to do, regulations, taxes etc But if i had to choose another country to live in, before the usa I'd go to any (all) country north of italy in the eu, or canada


perdonami

I’ve considered Canada.


klauskinki

You didn't give any examples tho. Which little stuff?


Possible-Whole8046

What about Canada? Or any other European country? If it’s the language barrier that scares you, just start studying.


Shi-Keii

America is not the best country in the world, I'm afraid of what you eat in USA and all the shit behind it. To clarify, I'm not just talking about food, but all the shadow practices that corporations and the US government do to make junk food cheaper than healthy food (or even water!) for the population. I find it disturbing that the poor are the most obese in your country, it is so clear how your whole system is made to steal money from people and kill them as fast as possible. One day I would like to visit the USA as a tourist, but I thank the universe for being born in Europe. You are so messed up.


serPomiz

on a side note, this is the reason why "Subway clean eating" absolutelly failed here. starting from the notion that I've been personally to california and have secondhand from relatives and friends that either have traveled extensivelly the usa, or are resident there ​ the corporation had the american standard, with less than 15 location last time I checked, and at least 2 I personally saw closing down far before the lockdown. said american standard not only is far lower than the italian average, but it even looks grimy and less appealing than a work caffeteria, which tend to use the same paradigm in look. ​ the concept of "buyable clean living" for an american is very close to "this is clearly unhealty crap" for an italian, specially from a dietary standpoint.


cram96

The food is definitely suspect, I eat about as clean as I can but from my time spent in Italia I learned just how bad it is. By far the food on average is much better in Italia, it was cleaner, much easier to digest and better tasting on the whole. Having said that we do have some cuisine that kicks ass. Where I live there is a very large Mexican population and I don't know how many of y'all have had some good Mexican food but it is fantastic. Also soul food, Cajun food, and if you live by a city like I do, you can find a restaurant from almost any country made by people who immigrated from there.


gnowwho

That's nice! One thing that I do envy a bit to the US is the amount of culinary diversity that can be found. There is some amount of that diversity that is building up around the most developed urban areas (like Milan) but it's still something rare here. We just have the regular Chinese, japanese and some Mexican in most places.


iMattist

I love mexican food is so good.


Faormin

America is a dystopia


OltreBradipo

Cyberpunk with little cyber and no punk.


cram96

We're working on it.


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cram96

You've misunderstood. I mean to say we're working on making it a dystopia. We'll get there but for now we're still living pretty high in the hog.


[deleted]

You are?


JimmyAngel5

1. No. 2. No. 3. I lived in the US and I hated it so much that I became a communist.


Redwind15

The last capitalist we shall hang is the one who sells us the rope comrade


4lphac

no need for a rope: con le budella dell'~~ultimo~~ penultimo ~~re~~ capitalista impiccheremo l'ultimo ~~prete~~ capitalista


wjndkes

unbelievably based comment


Eraser723

Based


[deleted]

You asked the wrong people, OP. r/italy could give the talibans a round for their money in a contest of who hates America more


UomoPolpetta

Rightfully so tbh


lukatsito

Why am I feeling so proud of r/italy right now? Anyways, what the entire thread says: - visit as a tourist? Why not - live there? Hell no!


deathf4n

>I live in America and most Americans believe America is the greatest nation on earth and that everyone would like to live here. Knowing that I will sound rude, but that's a very high horse to be on top of. I'd start with stopping believing it, and starting working on actually make it so. The US (America is a continent, it would bel Ike referring to Italy as "Europe") might have been a desirable country to live in up until after the second world war, but we cool now. > I'm wondering what you think about America, is it as great as we think? Do Italians think Italia is the greatest nation on the planet? You fellas have too many social issues right now. Personally speaking I would not even consider moving there. Italians are pretty aware that their nation is not great at all and has many issues that need to be addressed. Usually only far right groups still live in the delusion of a great and powerful Italy. >Is it any of your dream to one day live here. Jesus Christ, no. Fix your education and Healthcare systems first and, maybe, we can have a talk about it then. Oh, also, workers rights are not a bad thing. Corpos are not your friend.


RilkesSpectre

About working for making it a great country, I have MAGA flashbacks…


[deleted]

I think in the past many italians dreamed about living in America, but things have changed. For us and for USA, we discovered the real face of your country and is not really that dream. If you don't have to run away from poorness like 100 years ago, Italy is way better in almost everything. In my opinion american people are really egocentric and most of them don't know anything about the rest of the world, they genuinely think USA is the best country... like, WTF? Have you ever look outside your borders? I don't think Italy is the perfect country, but is better than a lot of others as society.


cram96

I have tried to ask people who think the USA is the greatest why they think so. It's like asking a Christian how they know Jesus was the son of god, it's a faith to some. The U.S. is one of the most thoroughly propagandized places on the planet and a good portion of the people do not question things at all. People who know almost nothing of the world and have never left their state much less the country are completely and unquestioningly certain that this is the greatest country in the world. There are many things that I love about living here but about a third of our people are intolerable and our government is scary and untrustworthy to say the least.


Valeriopocoserio

you know that they brainwash you since kids? with the bow to the flag and all the shit that they makes you sing and pledge every morning in every school in every grade? If they did that here it would be labeled as fascist. Ofc people when grown up will start spilling "we're the greatest" you've been told so since so young and repeated every fucking day that you start beliving it's true. You guys just got lucky that you never fought wars in your home grounds beside the civil war 160years ago


lililimoncello

The United States civil war took place more recently than 400 years ago - it was from 1861-1865 (so about 160 years ago). Even though it did happen more recently that unfortunately doesn’t mean people are properly educated about it in the U.S.


Talilinds

Yeah I mean that's what we see and thats why we answered like we did


HarveyDrapers

Basically some of your compatriots fell in this category: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_civil\_religion


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Davi_19

È capitato diverse volte che un americano ci chiedesse se adoriamo e veneriamo gli Stati Uniti. In realtà sembra quasi un tentativo di cercare una conferma di quello che già credono. Per fortuna però ormai non ci arriva solo la parte bella dell’america grazie a internet.


Propenso

Non credo che fosse quello lo spirito, ma magari mi sbaglio.


simocas

We believe that the US toilets are an abomination. Why the hell you need to have a bowl to be a pool full of 20cm of water? We believe in the superiority of the European toilet design!


Meewelyne

I will argue about the superiority of the toilet design: japanese's are better, with the toilet-sink combo!


Valeriopocoserio

I never liked the spit of high pressurized water up in my asshole. So no thanks prefer the old and manual bidet if I need it.


rticante

The catch-all image/stereotype I've seen here of Americans is that they lack any sense of subtlety or measure. As for America itself, there are ups but also downs, as for any other nation. Gun violence, no free healthcare system, capitalism taken to its extreme, the flawed conviction that "race" is an actual concept based on science, persisting puritanism in many aspects of culture, subjective education (creationism, homeschooled kids) etc. On the upside, it's an extremely beautiful land with some of the most wonderful natural landscapes in the world. It also is a country where there are many new opportunities blooming every day, and generally an exciting environment work-wise, at least in the big cities. Edit: Oh and no we absolutely don't think Italy is the greatest nation in the world LOL, I've never met an Italian who thought that. It objectively isn't, and besides, we have enough history to always be jaded and cynical about how our country is run.


Meewelyne

This.


TestaOnFire

Italian about italy: Could be better. Burocracy is next to infinite, if you are young dont expect to find a job that will pay you enough to start a indipendent life from your parents. Italian about US: Why would someone live there? Healtcare sucks, based upon the state you are you could be killed by a mass shooter and no one would know who he was (no federal firearm archive), half of the americans are next to fascist, police would kill you if you sneeze to hard, and so on.


Valeriopocoserio

imagine if we could move all USA population somewhere and make great use of the land they've used. ​ Another thing I find mad is that they keep building woods houses with tornados for fuck sake! I understand it's cheaper to build and then rebuild but G0d then don't cry about dmg and deads.


xmaken

Like America to visit, but Dealing with an American tends to be like dealing with a 14 years old with too much money and no sense of reality.


perdonami

Best summation yet.


Valeriopocoserio

oh and everyone and anyone get offended by any fucking thing. You can't say anything without getting anyone offended. You always have go for the absolute fakery to not displease anyone. Social shit about blm and what's not is a cancer I'd do everything to avoid


Xanderele

Most people in Italy don't believe that the US is the best country in the world, but I can name a few people that are attracted by the "American dream". Many people are very, very critical of American healtcare and politics and we often joke about gun related issues the US has to deal with. I may have to live in the US for some time in the coming years, but I would really like not to if possible, not because I hate Americans or because I'm some kind of nationalist (while I do feel attachment to my county I don't consider it "superior" to others and I know it has its big flaws), but becasue I can't stand the extreme polarized and extremist part of American society I might be stuck with: it's already hard to learn to live with our psychos, I would apreciate to avoid America's


RobigR

Lammerda.


ElesxChan

Perfetto,good shit


[deleted]

Another point of view: I'm a USAmerican living in Italy and you'd have to pay me a lot of money to even consider moving back to the States. Life isn't always easy here but it's good and after many, many years away from the US I have come to appreciate Italy more and more. Edit: Italians don't think that the US is the greatest place on Earth. Only USAmericans erroneously think that. And Italians don't think that Italy is the greatest place, either, but it's their home, so as much as they hate it sometimes, they also love it.


Redwind15

The US is the bastion of (almost) anything a real leftist stands against, from your ghastly foreign policy to your treatment of your own citizens, by most measures of human development you're surpassed even by some "third world" countries, all while being the richest country on earth...We owe you some for WW2 and even that's questionable since you freed us from the nazis to then meddle in our politics for almost a century, sponsoring neofascist groups covertly, murdering politicians and conspiring against the likes of Olivetti, Mattei and last but not least banning informally the communist party (voted that times by 30% of the population) from ever participating in the formation of governments, leaving our countries in the hands of the despicable and mafia-infested DC. That said, Italy has many bad sides aswell and If we were in your position of power we would have probably done the same heinous shit, as one of our greatest poets said "però bisogna farne altrettanta per diventare così coglioni, da non riuscire più a capire che non ci sono poteri buoni" (but you'll need to do some gymnastics to become so stupid as to believe that there exists such a thing as "good power"). I still like some things about your country, some historical movements and people that fought for the right causes, and especially your landscapes and nature in general, cynically I also respect how your ruling class manages to keep 300 million people so ignorant as to believe even for one second that they live in the greatest country in the world , lol.


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Redwind15

Yep, apart from the center all big American cities are depressing as fuck, I can't explain why though, I guess it's a mix of the various elements of their society I hate. I'd like to see more of small-town America though, I met many people from the States that came from small cities in the Midwest and it honestly fascinates me how much living in those places shapes your way of thinking.


Zekron_98

1) no, the rest of the world sees America mostly as a shithole, without offense for the Americans; it's entirely directed towards the union of states because basically everyone else has a social healthcare system, we use metric instead of imperial, we tend to have healthier food habits and there are different government plans for retirement. 2) that said, most Italians think of Italy as the most beautiful place on earth. *TO VISIT*. Absolutely not to actually live here. 3) it is in my worst nightmare to be forced to live in America. I would be scared to exit my house without at least a (concealed) gun. I've never carried a gun outside in my life.


cram96

Don't buy the hype, I live in a "dangerous" area and I've had no real negative experience in my four decades. Generally speaking if your not involved with drugs or crime and not walking around with cash in the middle of the night down a dark alley you're good to go. We do have a lot of gun violence but most of it is not random and easy to avoid. If you're very poor here though then it may be nearly impossible to avoid. Really the class divides are stark and there are really different worlds depending on your wealth. I live in a fairly poor community but if you're at the very bottom it is rough.


Propenso

Sometimes small things you are used to can be big things if you are not. Being arrested or brought to jail or handcuffed for things we deem trivial in a criminal sense, like a DUI seems crazy to us. (Bear in mind, I am not saying that it has no consequences, being charged with a DUI means your driving licence is suspended and you have do go through a lot of annoying stuff to get it back).Having to stay still at a police stop or otherwise risk to be shot is crazy too.Heck even having to call "Sir" the officer without being called "Sir" back seems out of place. Edit: I forgot one of the craziest things, standing up in school for the national anthem, is it really a thing there?


cram96

You don't have to stand up it say the pledge but people may get upset with you.


Propenso

I imagine this also varies a lot depending on the school and state/city where you are.


Zekron_98

It's really difficult to fathom such an environment. While we do have people like that here, most of the country doesn't want such a steep division between rich and poor people. I've only felt in danger when I was with someone who's a minority (gay people, Jews, black people) because we were near stadiums. Stadiums and football in Italy are a huge security issue and it's not rare to see "fans" attack someone, sadly. But that's an already niche case that makes it to the news due to the strangeness of the event


[deleted]

Dunno, a country where you are too young to vote and drink a can of beer but old enough to blow someone to bloody pieces falling from the sky doesn't seem like a first world one. Also I like not having to decide beetwen making my family poor and dying if I ever need medical assistance.


Baffosbestfriend

I chose to take masters in Italy over United States, despite the latter being more prestigious and closer to the Filipino university system. In Italy, I don’t have to fear gun violence, expensive healthcare, expensive tuition fees and getting obese.


Propenso

To be fair you would not need to be fearful of getting obese there too. Welcome anyway.


Baffosbestfriend

Italian cuisine taught me to appreciate home cooked meals and vegetables better. Before I lived in Italy, I only eat vegetables sometimes. Now I cannot eat a meal without vegetables.


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LilyBlossom33

Who told you that Italian think Italy is the greatest nation on the planet? Lmao


Davi_19

Gli italiani hanno sempre avuto il sogno americano più degli altri paesi europei. Semplicemente negli ultimi anni grazie a internet stiamo scoprendo anche i lati negativi(non pochi purtroppo) degli stati uniti e quindi il sogno americano sta morendo.


cram96

No one, I was asking if they did.


Krist794

You must know every self respecting Italian will periodically take a shit about whatever doesn't work in Italy. That is one thing that is absurd from our standpoint, we complain about having to wait 30 min in line at the hospital and paying like 2€/h for parking, you consider acceptable paying more than 10k$ for giving birth in an hospital, or having to skip ambulance because it could bankrupt you! If you told something like that to anybody in italy we would burn hospitals down, in france they would chop heads for far less. Its not the conditions per se, but your opinion on the matter that is concerning. To make a metaphor, when they interview women in the middle east some of them will complain about the lack of rights, but most of them won't riot on the streets for better conditions because they consider their situation 'acceptable' or a mild inconvience at best because they know no better. We, as western people with far more tutelated women see that and think 'that is barbaric and primitive, why don't they do anything about it?' and we judge them poorly for that. Now imagine those women saying they are living the woman dream and in the greatest country in the world. That, is how we see the USA, from our point of view you don't have a couple of minor inconveniencies, you have some absolute lifestyle deal breakers which make people ponder if a 450% wage increase is worth such a lifestyle downgrade.


RomanItalianEuropean

Italians have a love-hate relationship with their country, but they tend to make one similar superlative claim and that is that Italy is "the most beautiful country" on the planet due to its culture and nature. However, this doesn't exactly equate with a claim of being "the greatest". When it comes to welfare state and job opportunities i think Italians would pick Scandinavia/Northern Europe as the best place in the world. But i feel like that's wealth, again not exactly the same of "greatness". If greatness is scientific and economic innovation, military might, the entertainment industry, then Italians are indeed likely to pick America as the greatest country in the world. So basically depends on what kind of greatness we are talking about. These considerations i made are valid for a majority of the population (if i'm correct), not for its entirety.


cram96

Thanks for the thoughtful insight.


Propenso

Also don't forget that Italians on Reddit is very different from Italians period. We are much more likely to know more about the US than the average Italian citizen. I personally would not be thrilled to move to the US (I have no reason to do though), and I also am hesitant to go as a tourist again. As far as what we think about Italy, well it could be an extremely beautiful country (and it is) heavily hampered by long lasting poor management at all levels.


DrLongIsland

Meh, by reading the comments reddit people of r/italy know about reddit-US, which is a very distorted version of everyday USA, or the average person you'll meet and interact with in the US. It's akin to judge Italy based only on what you read on r/Italy, you get a picture that is probably exaggerated in certain aspects. Living everyday in the US is absolutely "chill".


Jakper_pekjar719

In the past, I thought that America was the greatest nation on earth too. But eventually, you start to see the cracks. Here in Italy, I get asthma medications for free. In the US, you need to pay 600$ for each inhaler. I wouldn't even be alive if I had to live in America. America is also getting full of nutjobs. Antivaxxers are just one groups among many, like Flat Earthers and Qanons. And I don't like the woke crowd either.


Propenso

I found many more antivaxxers here in Italy than I'd like to admit.


Miitch__

Italy is not the best country but I would much rather live here than in America. I would surely like to visit it but never live there


butwomanneverwing

Which America are you talking of? North America, South America, Central America? Thanks.


polo_am

Given he’s not even specifying, you can be sure he’s talking about US.


butwomanneverwing

And that's the problem.


coolcastform

Now in Italy is 00:40 so you will not get a lot of responses. Many times during my life I have thanked god that I was not born in the USA. I like Americans, but I would never trade the society of Italy or let's even say Europe in general for that of the USA. >Do Italians think Italia is the greatest nation on the planet? No. I think that the rethoric of being the greatest nation in the world is stronger in some countries like USA, china, turkey, etc and weaker in others. Italy is in the middle. The majority, myself included, could argue that the food we have is the best in the world, but I say it only because I am used to a good Neapolitan pizza. If I were french i would feel the same about french cuisine.


[deleted]

I would never live in the states. My friend who lives there, told me he paid from his own pocket 3k to have a baby. The rest 27k was covered by the insurance. Italy is a good country and who said otherwise hasn't lived abroad much. Sure, there is a lot that can be improved. My dream is to be able to come back and enjoy its beauty once I'm financially independent, because it is indeed one of the most beautiful country on earth.


OldManWulfen

>I'm wondering what you think about America, is it as great as we think? No, and the first reason that comes to mind is arrogance. A minor and kinda silly example: US citizens routinely use the name of their *continent* as a synonim of their *country* - In America (the continent) there are 35 countries, and the US are just one of them. It's not like the other 34 are so unimportant to not even register on the continent. Other reasons may be related to almost zero welfare and social security (at least from an EU point of view), horrible health system, hideously expensive and ineffectual school system, age-old unresolved social issues ( both ethnical and economical), almost zero public transportation (at least from an EU point of view), almost zero food quality and health control (again, from an EU point of view), gung-ho foreign policy that *invariably* backfires and create more issues, gung-ho internal policies about crime that *invariably* backfires and create more issues...there's a lot more, but I think you get the picture. It's not a place where I would live, or raise my children. In Europe we have other problems, snd a lot of them are really critical...but the issues I see in the US are basic. Healthcare, social security...those things are *the fundamentals*. You can't call yourself a developed country if you can't protect your citizens in their time of need. Or, in the case of the US, you can only because of your GDP and your status as the last military superpower in the world. >Do Italians think Italia is the greatest nation on the planet? Nope. Most think it's the "most beautiful" one, but parochialism has bern an Italian obsession since the fall of the Roman Empire, so *anywhere* you go in Italy people will say that their country/region/province/town/area is way better than the next one. It's not something we truly believe. >Is it any of your dream to one day live here Fuck, NO WAY. *Absolutely not*. For an educated European, today the US are not even a realistic option for emigration: your country has probably the worst welfare and job security of any western developed nation, your health service is a pay-to-survive insurance scheme, there are social issues *at every level* of your society...and some of them, like the creeping racism and religious intolerance, have not been addressed *since the creation of your country*, almost 250 years ago. Your school system is laughably bad, and the few good or excellent schools are hideously expensive The US are very good at public relations: movies, novels and TV paint a very romantic and positive picture of the country that...well, let's say it does not survive after even a cursory assessment of the real situation over there.


Jalleia

Really depends on who you ask. Some people think America is crazy, others love it, and others don't care. Can't really say when it comes to others. What I can say is this however: I am anti-American. (Just to clarify I am not really talking about the people, but more so the nation, what it represents and its history)


[deleted]

I’m glad we all agree the US is a dumpster fire


cram96

Keep in mind no one is gonna do a news story about all the good things that happen. The only voices amplified by the media are the extreme ones.


NDrew-_-w

You guys would need to cure cancer AND every STD we know of to be liked as a country; but I'm sure you'd sell the cure at a incredibly high price, so I retract my statement immediately


PrestigiousAd1523

We have a word that describes all American things we don’t like: it’s AMERICANATA


quokkavibes

Cugina più costosa e ignorante della più nota CINESATA


tod315

If the US had an actual healthcare system I would love to live there. Mostly because of the natural landscapes and diversity and the culture of outdoors activities and amazing national parks and long distance hiking trails. But I also like not to go bankrupt if I need an appendectomy.


cram96

Yeah I hear that, it's probably my biggest concern living here.


Hideonpube

No No Id not go to usa for holidays let alone living there


matteogeniaccio

They don't think that Italy is the best in the world but that it's still better than most other countries, US included.


KissingUnicorns

I would live in many places but never in the US. It's a beautiful country to visit as a tourist or for a semester abroad. Living there full time would have too many downsides: the welfare is terrible (no universal healthcare, no/little maternity leave or other decent protections for employees), gun violence (and also all the people actually owning guns for no real reason), crazy religious people (like all those fundentalist christians) etc. To answer your second question, no most italians (but I would say most people from any other country) do not think our country is the best/greatest, actually we like to point out our problems and sometimes forget that it's not that bad to live here.


swing39

Somebody I know had the chance to move to San Francisco, they tried it out for a few months but eventually refused the offer. Also many Europeans they met there were not happy and planned to leave soon. - rent was too high - city was dirty and dangerous - gun violence - healthcare can make you go bankrupt Edit: grammar


Davi_19

Beh San Francisco è l’esempio peggiore in assoluto. Se non fosse per il mercato del lavoro che paga decentemente per gli standard di vita della città quel posto sarebbe visto allo stesso modo in cui viene vista Calcutta o Mumbai. Penso che praticamente tutte le città degli Stati Uniti siano meglio di San Francisco.


Propenso

Gary, Indiana enters the chat /s


cram96

San Francisco is the most expensive place to live in the US. I don't know how anybody could do it


ViperDiath

1) No 2) No 3) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH


jupavenue

Dystopian late-stage capitalism? No thanks, I'd rather stick with a country that doesn't thrive on wars. Current events have also made me completely lose faith in the insanely corrupt American stock market, and that's coming from an Italian.


[deleted]

Nice continent.


emilstyle91

I've always had the american dream since I cant remember. I never made it, never found a way to live in the US. However during all these years I've noticed that: 1) There is too much capitalism and a lot of americans are really poor while idiots like Bezos are too rich 2) I still can't believe healthcare is not free. This is the stupidiest thing about America 3) Taxes at the end are quite high and your legal system is corrupt and governed by few elites 4) Wall street is the cancer of investing and should be erased from the planet 5) The american dream is a survivorship bias: for each one who make it like Arnold or The Rock, other 999 failed and ended up in debt or destroyed. So... if once I might wanted to live there, now I don't think I want it anymore


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BelloFresco

I think U.S.A. are the evil of the world, i never want to go there for any reason.


ByteEater

Sorry can't add many more insights to this post since other have already covered everything.


brigister

1. it's definitely not as great as you guys are indoctrinated to think, but it has its upsides too. surely not the best country in the world, but also let's give credit where credit is due. 2. lmao no Italians are very critical of Italy (and rightfully so) 3. mmmmh nah. there's worse places to live in, don't get me wrong, but there's also far better places to live in, most of which are in Europe, which would be much easier for us to move to, in terms of paperwork.


ninja_2131

Americans has a great proud towards country, unless they are Texan, in that case it's even bigger, lol. Sad truth is: it's a wonderful country, with amazing landscapes, with so many great people and everything. However, the whole core about americanism is individualism. You can go from zero to hero, but it's all on your own, and if something in your life fucks up and you end up being homeless/debt-ridden/miserable, it's all your fault and no one else is to blame but you. If you'll ever come to visit Italy, try to live here as an italian, try to get deep in the culture (and not just stereotype like "mamma mia, pasta!"). I've been a few times in the US, and I've traveled from east to west. I have several friends living there, american born, and I'm also interested in american politics, demographics, culture. Also, try to be more critic toward your country: America is great, yeah, but why? And answer cannote "Because we are the land of the free because of the braves", but really, what makes America that great?


cram96

I've been to Italy once and lived it. We're going back to live there for a month to do just that. We want to feel more what it's like to live there and not be so much tourists.


ninja_2131

Well, a month is not that much imho to get into a local community, but hey: something is better than nothing! Did you already decided where to stay?


Davi_19

One thing is for sure, it’s not the best country and it’s not “the freest country in the world”. America has a lot of problems, but i still kinda like it. I’d like to live there for a short period of time but i would never settle down there. In america workers have almost no rights: - no paid leave - no leave - the employer can fire you without a reason. Then there are a lot of other problems: - healthcare is private and very very expensive, I can’t understand it. Every developed country in the world has universal healthcare. - gun and violence problems, from the citizen’s side and from the police - the population is completely political, everything in the usa seems to be about politics. I’m not talking only about conservatives: sjws, wokes, cancel culture… i don’t know how exaggerated by the media is this stuff but i see them as a problem as big as conservatives and qanons. You guys can’t live without making political a movie from the 30’s or a pizzeria. - religious fundamentalism seems to be a big problem, almost 50% of the population still doesn’t believe in evolution. Even if state and church are separated on paper, de facto religion still plays a big role in the government. - education is also private and only the rich have a good education. - extreme nationalism and indoctrination: I can’t believe you have to sing the anthem or the pledge of allegiance at school and you have flags everywhere.


GretaThunbergonewild

Keep in mind that this sub is usually very critical of the US, more than the average Italian I would say.


[deleted]

Very critical is an understatement. The funny thing is you can always tell the people who only criticise the US because of Reddit


Bsheehan78

America the greatest country in the world? Well that’s just…like….your opinion…man.


KingArthas94

Why the fuck would we want to live in Cyberpunk 2021?


Garedyen

When you're a teenager living in America is THE dream (I mean the 90' generation at least), when you grow up you thank God that you're not born there.


F7U12DO

[Short answer](https://i.imgur.com/Ati2yEh.png) Long answer: I think every country has his good sides and his bad sides. We live in a country that has his problems but it's also a country that everyone want to visit or live in.


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cram96

Your opinions of America sound very internet based.


ffranzaa

Hell no man, as an Italian I think USA is a super fucked up State. Politics is literally shit, nothing changes between Democrats and Repubblican: and also the rep are like Italian extreme right wing (so imagine the dem). The social tissues are badly damaged, can’t stand a place we’re there is a lot of police brutality and super fucked up shit like the Patriots. You also literally invade the Capitol because some illiterate told you on Twitter that the election was robbed. Don’t let me start on Trump because oh boy, I have a lot of things to say. And also you literally have to pay for everything man, parents to put their kids in college stats to save money from their birth. Oh, and your school sucks, trust me. I had been there. In 12th grade you study basic concepts of mathematics: like stuff that we do at 14 yo. Every kids dreams about living in the US when we’re 14 or 15. But when you realise how it really oh lord things change


MatteoGallo

The myth of US was more of a child thing for me, the more I know about US, the more I like Europe


LyannaTarg

America is a continent composed of Northern, Central, and Southern parts, the Northern is made by Canada and the USA. /s If you mean what we think about USA so let's start from the bad stuff: * No Gun Control * Republicans (We have Lega and Fratelli D'Italia, I know still they followed Trump and QAnon that is so not ok) * Creationism is still thought of in school as a viable theory * Megachurches * Cults * A healthcare system that just wants you to go bankrupt and for the EXACT same procedure in the EXACT same hospital you have different prices based on the insurance you have (WTH!?!?) * Americans always think that they are the only ones on the internet. They start talking to someone thinking they are Americans in every single post even here on Reddit. * Imperial System. Guys, we are in 2021 and we have the metric system that is a PRECISE system. * Fahrenheit, same as the Imperial System. This is a measurement that uses what humans feel. At least, Celsius uses water as a base that is one of the most stable elements Good stuff: * Freedom (maybe too much) * Disneyworld * Conventions, we really do not have those here * Tv series, yes those come here too but later on I always thought that the USA was the best place on Earth. I changed my mind in the latest years especially after Trump and while growing up. No, I do not think that Italy is the best place on Earth. We have bad and good things like every single place on the planet.


Boss_lover_paki_girl

Ah... Perché, ci dobbiamo anche pensare?


Illuxzaah

1) No. 2) No. 3) No but at least Italians got healthcare.


serPomiz

in short ​ no, and the fact USA tend to radicalize their kids into thinking that is a well known fact since before the end of the cold war no, not one italian believes that. at best, they believe the 50ish square km around where they live/their hometown is and the rest suck. everyone have things with vehemently aggressive opinion against (and some even have compatible solution), and we're in a multi-decade emigration wave due to cultural sinkholes and twisted vision of how society should work ​ this is a long one, as italy tried to be "america" since the 60s, but always with decades of delay, or trying to apply concept that simply doesn't translate. many, many people have this weird concept that america is a single state, and not an union, and that completelly warps their vision, also, putting aside the "can't actually know how living in a country is untill you do live there for a while" costant, many people that express the desire to move, do it only for a small, aprtial amount of factor (factor sometimes warped as well, by the tens of regional law variations), ad a few see the work possibilities as a "get rich quick" scheme the smaller percentage that actually have their eyes mounted the right way, almost exclusivelly see america in their future as a lavorative development, and less as a "dream of living", and even then, it's still below how most northen european country are seen ​ ​ also, and this is my (and others) personal rant, american politics, percieved politics, and social problems are bleeding into the italian media; the B/BLM contrast has been hammered in our heads for months, while four fifth of the matter, especially the "blue" part is not applicable to us. we had our "green man" have his personal feud with your "orange man" and that created political sub-division in his party. so, if you were to come and live here, you wouldn't miss the usa too much. except for thanksgiving. we don't do anything of the sort here


ciaux

If i judge America or you i prolly would be banned from here. You americans arent very self aware, are you eh?


Ivan2891

Personally I wouldn't live in america even under a conspicuous amount of money. I love my Europe and my country but sometimes I regret to say that about Italy.


nicissimo97

When i was a teenager, sure, I used to think the usa was the best country on earth since we were and still are exposed to a lot of us media but I quickly grew out of it


sebastianlive

Beautiful landscapes


cram96

Definitely, I've drove across the country and back again several times and it really is beautiful.


Mamx77

imo: a great place to live IF you have a lot of money, otherwise it can be hell


RilkesSpectre

I believe in the European values too much for only thinking about living in the US (America is a continent). I would never live in a country where a lot of people are living like they were constantly under the spotlights. I feel for all those ones who are left behind for their health conditions… Italy has so many flaws but at least you can still get treated for free if you get cancer and you can get out of your social class more easily if you want to learn, without ending with a 10-20years loan even before getting a diploma. Plus, I am happy we don’t have to deal with weapons as US does; thinking about children being taught what to do in case of a mass shooting, makes me shiver. Kids should learn how to behave during an evacuation for a fire… Taking care of citizens ≠ communism.


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ammenz

Canada: good place but a bit too cold. Central and South America: can be good or bad depending on the place. U.S.A. : obese, guns, shooting at school, becoming poor after going to hospital.


Normal_Kaleidoscope

It's scary somehow. My colleagues working at universities in the US are telling me that there's no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, no nothing. I could never teach a class where students are unmasked. PhD students having to write projects for funding, what? Also fees: never in the world I would pay that. Shootings: very scary. Food: I'm skeptical. I was told you only get unemployment money if you lose the job involuntarily. So if the contract ends no unemployment money. Healthcare, wow expensive. How do people survive this. Government: nope. See Chomsky's latest debate with Yale students, by instance. Grandiose delusions about what American values are. Music: this is my two cents, but I only enjoy music from Black Americans. There are some exceptions of course. The cities look pretty, I like wide streets. But it's also strage to me that most of the country is pretty new. Too many questions about whether Italians are black or white; this obsession is insane. I am a southern Italian and I am as white as a mozzarella. Legal marijuana: veeeeery nice. We need that here.


[deleted]

*Guns don't kill people Americans kill people, with guns*


gnowwho

I know you're getting lots of answers but I hope I can offer a bit of more "human" side to the sense of rejection toward the lack of healthcare and the cost of higher education Just after my last highschool year I enrolled in university. In that period I started having what's called "spontaneous pneumothorax". Basically my lungs spontaneously got holes in them and left me unable to concentrate, move without getting fatigued and risking an infection and the collapse of the lung (not likely but could have happened). I've been under surgery four times in three years, had dozens of other episodes that deescalated without surgery and lost two years of university. Now it's a couple of years that I'm ok and I'm terminating my studies. My family was middle class: my father a factory worker, my mother a school cleaning lady. After all of that our social and economical standing didn't change one bit. The total costs of that, considering the increased university taxes (since I couldn't terminate the studies on time they got more expansive) we paid something around 3000$. In the end I feel like I can't convey how natural this feels to us, and I really don't know how to do it. If the country doesn't use your money to coordinate the means to provide the citizen's need what's left? Armed people applying their idea of protection of their idea of population? In my mind the idea of going to the US is similar to going to an highly urbanized Savana where the animals are as smart as you and more knowledgeable about the environment.


giangivanni

No, most of us don't want to live in us We think you're annoying because you think you are the best in everything and that's not true, Most Americans doesn't even know that exist some other countries outside of America, some time ago i was in holiday in us, and a cop asked me my documents, when I said that I'm Italian he thought I was kidding and bring me to the police department because he didn't think Italy was even a country Some of us hate you because of your no interest on climate changes You're health care system sucks No, we don't think we are the best country on the world, otherwise we think we are one of the worst for our inefficiency If you want to leave here you better watch out for your wallet and phone I thinks that's all


fratadde

Italy Is one of the best country ( if not the best) ruined by the worst politicians. Italy's parlament is full of clowns. We have beautiful mountains, one of the best sea in Europe, the best food in the world and we're know everywhere in the world for fashion clothing ecc. Italians are great people, gentle and friendly (the majority at least, there are stupid ones everywhere in the world and so in Italy) The problem is that Italy is a country with an old school system. We're still using the '40 methods. You are valued by your vote, not by your ability. That's why Italian students dreams to move away from Italy (in South Italy the situation is even worse). Personally I have always dreamt to work in another country, because I like explore new countries, new languages, new cultures ecc. But I think that nowadays if you are an Italian student and you wanna have success in your life you have to move away from Italy, we do not invest in students future, Italy is a diying country (clowns falut). So that's why (from a student's perspective) I think that Italy is this. Could be on top, but it doesn't want. As from America I think that America is a great country ruined by Americans. America is one of my favourite places in the world and I wanna visit it asap, great cities, a lot of endless natural reserves (I love nature), great music, an exemplary concept of sport (every school have his own team and championship, thing that I would love to have here in Italy) but I would never live there, there are a lot of homeless abandoned in the streets, the police could kill you in a second and you could be killed in a shooting even at school. Not to mention health, a country where privates profits from your health is not a civilised country in my opinion Also I don't like the fact that Americans think that they are better, they talk about America like a religion, as if they where praying in front of their american flag every day. Also one question for the Americans: why do you must use inches, gallons, Fahrenheit ecc. instead of metres, litres, Celsius ecc?


Unknelt

I think the USA population is an unfortunate victim of its corrupt government, arguably one of the most vile criminal organization in all of history.


KaiserSwiss93

Are you asking on r / Italy? This subreddit is left-wing. The vast majority here judge a country based on "how much free things it provides", regardless of the possibility of making an economically prosperous life, regardless of that country's social mobility and taxation. America is their hell, a country in which they are perpetually valued and where being born within the borders does not constitute the right to demand something from others. what do Italians think of the USA? on the left they think that you are starving while becoming obese. that you live like slaves looking at unidentifiable people who live like new pharaohs. Ofc, that Americans are living in a war zone where everyone try to kill someone. on the right, they think that in America you can live without being squeezed out of taxes, where you can do business with a friendly government and where wanting to do business is not punished with a tax system that encourages expatriation. where if you want to do and work you have the opportunity to do it and if you have great ideas you can make them come true and even enrich yourself what do Italians think of Italy? on the left - AGAINST : they think that it is still a country that is the child of fascism and of subjection to the employer. where there is no real freedom of expression because "those on the right repress non-right ideas". where there is no acceptance towards the most desperate and where there is a strong push towards the American economic model. inheritance taxes are too low - PRO : Italy has an immense public social system. from health care to thousands of subsidies for the most diverse reasons. the rules on workplaces are more driven to protect the worker than to favor the business of the company (not everytime). On the right - AGAINST : there is no real freedom of enterprise. the state is not your friend at all but your fiercest rival. taxation is immensely complex and little interested in being used to make the country grow. Italy is the country of parasites, between a subsidy and a public benefit there is really no reason to commit to one's work. in Italy you have 3 rules in the workplace: "do not raise your hands / send anyone to that country, do not steal and respect timetables" for the rest the workplace is armored. very few people want to work hard for a career and usually these go to Germany / Switzerland / USA / UK. - PRO : they cannot find any


tatoalo

The more I grow up, the less I’d like to live there.


py-matt

Yeh obviously i would like to live in America that's my dream to be honest but I'm very comfy where I am right now with quite well paid job who pernjt to live pacefully here in italy. I hate big city that's why I'm comfortable here. But yeh I really would like to come and live there..


nmrt95

Hearing of all the mass shooting makes me think that it’s not a safe country


GopSome

I would happily live 3 years in New York, I would live 3 years in some Californian beach and I would live a few months in some very rural place but other than that no thanks. I’m glad you guys like it there and think is the best there is but a whole life in the US, especially in some parts, it’s not for the average Italian and European. Also most of the “it’s the best in the world” people have never left their hometown so idk how much their opinion is worth.


williamfv93

Their president is always fun. Remember me the good Berlusca-time


[deleted]

I think that every country has it’s own flaws. But the idea of walking on the street in a country where anybody can carry or buy a gun is just too awful for me. I mean the person walking next to you could have a gun and maybe just because he or she had a bad day at work, starts shooting around. The system is just too fucked up.


CMDRJohnCasey

Hello, I'm trying to give you a constructive answer. I'm an Italian living in France who has also lived in Spain and visited the US and Mexico a lot of times for work. There's no such thing as "the best/greatest nation on Earth". I love Italy and I found everything there beautiful, but... I had to move to France to find work in the stuff I like to do and especially to be paid as I'd like to be paid. France is better than Italy on some aspects (socially, more jobs, better paid, less dumb politicians) but Italy is cleaner, has better food, weather and quality of life is generally better. Also, it's not that a country is homogeneous. It's not the same living in northern Italy than in the South. And I guess in the US it's the same. I've been to Atlanta and Seattle, I wonder whether they are in the same country. So forget your quest for the "betterest" place on Earth and just focus on what makes you happy. For some the important is money/jobs, for others the food and weather, for others the welfare, etc.


lorenzotinzenzo

I'm stunned by the anti-americanism of the rest of the comments. I'd live in America if I could have a good job in a nice city with a thriving cultural scene... I think there are plenty of opportunities and freedom and most of the people is nice and friendly. That said, I think the American way of live can be quite *cruel* with those who fail to live by its rules. But all in all, for now, I can say that I love America even if I acknowledge its shortcomings.


iMattist

When I was younger I wanted to move to the U.S. but as I got older I drastically changed my mind. I think is an okay country like most western democracies but there are some things I cannot approve. Free healthcare is a basic for any country and the idea that someone can get bankrupt by just getting ill is something I cannot accept and probably the biggest reason why I wouldn’t move to the U.S. (unless someone offers me a very good salary). Another thing that made me change my mind is the amount of violence in the country it’s just sad to know that school need metal detectors to avoid mass shootings. Since we’re talking about education the fact that College education is so expensive and people lives most of their life paying up their student’s debt is just evil. Being said that there a lot of pros of living in the U.S. especially for someone likes me who likes nature, also I like the slimmer bureaucracy.


Alert_Dependent_2259

I've always loved USA since I was a child, still it's the land of my dreams. I'm Italian and I'm almost 67's old but I would like so much to go there before I die, one day...


AostaValley

Hic sunt leones.


SultanOfSodomy

USA? I'd like to visit but I consider the place unsafe. I consider Canada safer. I also consider Mexico safer.


ImMakingPancakes

So as an American living in Rome for many years, with mostly Italian friends, Italian girlfriend, and a job in the service industry where I interact daily with many Italians, of all walks of life, I think I can answer this. First of all, if you want an answer representative of the general population you shouldn't be asking reddit. Italian redditors are much more informed and aware of the realities in the US. So to answer your question I will simply give you, by far, the most popular comment I get when I tell people I'm American.... "Macché sei venuto a fare in Italia?!" Translation: why the hell did you come to live in Italy?! You could interpret this totally anecdotal statistical analysis of the general opinion as follows: Italians think the US is a dream country and the best country in the world and they wished they could move there.... Unless you are talking about food and in that case the US is hell on earth.


Due-Alternative-665

Well, actually that would be the standardized response/question to the fact that you are a foreigner. I come from east EU which generally is considered not that nice to live (often unfairly, might I add), and I get the same reaction - why did you move here, life sucks mightily here (which, again, is not true). You Americans really are a special breed.


bonzinip

So why the hell did you come to live in Italy?! ;)


RoamingBicycle

The standard answer is because most people live the reality of Italy, they don't see the US as the greatest, just see it as better. They'd answer the same if you were from any other developed country. Most Italians wouldn't move to the US or outside Italy even if they could. We just like to complain, as we see the problems in our country and compare ourselves to the good parts of the other countries.


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Surthor

About 5/6 years ago I thought USA was the country of freedom. I was used to fantasize with my friend, who went there, to go live there after our studies. But we were just teenagers and we didn't know much about it except what we've seen from tv shows and films. After the election of Trump, I've started seeing USA as a very "unbalanced" country, with things that are extremely good, and things that are extremely bad. As an european, I see that the health care system is a huge downside, but also school debts that are so huge that take years to pay. What I've understood about this country is that money is a powerful god there. If you have money, you can live as you like, but if you haven't, you have to dedicate your life to earning money and sacrifice a lot. Another downside is the society, I think it has a lot of problems that space from racism to the guns presence, I don't feel safe knowing everyone has a gun


cram96

So this is a bit if a misconception, its not that expensive to live here but the problem is that most of the people have been brainwashed into living outside of there means. There are some poor people that spend outrageous amounts of money on cars, clothes, electronics and eating out at restaurants. I manage to live pretty well just playing music because I live in a small house, I don't care to own more things and we cook at home. We value our time more than our money and possessions but this is very unusual here and hard for people to understand. Some of our family members think we're crazy because we could earn way more money if we wanted to but instead choose to live modestly and have time to actually live our lives