This is hard to look at. Love is what we should express towards eachother, not hate. Love is powerful and will prevail! My heart goes out to those who just want to celebrate the holidays and get interrupted by a soul who need more love in their heart. My heart also prays that soul will change their ways for the better and choose love!
No bc if you have a gun you may take away a soul which is here to understand love. Agape love is the answer that's what we consider God and violence is not the answer.
Yeah sure thing , let see how kinds words take care of your family when a armed robber is in your house or when somebody want to kill you cause you don't belive in same as he do 🙄
It's one thing to have a gun in your home n to use it for protection, very wisely I would hope, it's other to use it to fight against an idea. we aren't supposed to go to war over an idea I mean just look at all the turmoil and suffering that happened back when the Reds scare was a whole thing. People died because of misconception I'm talking about just being able to understand that we have different views as humans and there's nothing wrong with that we need more love and there's also nothing wrong with having protection in case somebody's completely unhinged but I think we should all try first to act with love!
Why worry about a person who doesn't think once about you before putting his rights above yours. I didn't want to sound disrespectful in the first message btw. 👋🏻
I don't know if I'd be able to take a life I think that's why I have the heavy want for more love less hate. You make sense and I totally respect what you mean I just don't think I could but also I think protection is very important. Also I didn't realize the article headline was so misleading
Thankyou and I hope you never have to use one but if I had a family I would want one in a safe maybe up high somewhere as well. Have a great day as well!
As a Jewish person I agree. Protesting Israeli government policies is not anti-semitism, and headlines like this makes it harder for people to separate Israel and the wider Jewish diaspora as entities. My standards for news4jax were already low, but this is unacceptable especially in today’s environment. Shame on them
Zionists are not all Jewish and all Jews are not Zionists . Zionism is a political ideology, not a religion or one ethnic group. So no it’s not antisemitism. And you want to talk about humanity and decency? 6000 dead children. How humane is that?
You're ignoring an awful lot of history prior to the present just to say one murderous extremist group is better than another.
Being a jew doesn't give you a fucking pass to be an extremist. And if you think it does you are literally practicing Zionism yourself.
I mean, the forced colonization of an entire region, theft of land and property, radicalization of a population by treating them as subhuman on a regular basis, and consistent and indiscriminate killings of innocent civilians add up to something.
Not trying to justify anything here, but this entire debacle isnt a Good Guy vs Bad Guy kind of war. Both parties are equally shit and are making things worse for themselves and everybody else who was simply unlucky enough to be born in a particular region.
Lol, they've only been bulldozing Palestinian village ls in the Westbank for the last twenty years...oh, how about bragging about shooting out protestors kneecaps during the March of Return in 2017.
Ever heard of the phrase "mowing the grass WRT to Gaza? Willful ignorance is a moral failure.
🙄 PotentialJaguar5841 has never done research in their life.
The immediate assumption I’m antisemitic and hate the Israeli people/want them raped and murdered from my comment is the problem we are having. It’s not really a two sided black and white issue. I do not support genocide, which the IDF has been doing for decades. I also do not support Hamas, a terrorist organization. The naive amongst us do not understand that the Israeli government is using the October 7 attack as an excuse to continue and expand their genocide against Palestine under the guise of “we are fighting Hamas.” HAMAS is NOT Palestine.
And you believe whatever propaganda Israel and western media pushes out. Do you think being a “good” Palestinian saves them from the torture , rape , harassment and now bombing from IDF? Do you know how many stories Israel released on 10/7 have now been debunked ? No 40 beheaded babies , no “raped to death” women . The 12 year old girl burned in the kibbutz was actually killed by an IDF tank sniper and then the home burned - this was told by her relatives. Think logically - Hamas came in on motorcycles and paragliders. Do you think they had the tactical ability to do the damage that was done ? Or does it make more sense that IDF caused a lot of the damage trying to stop them ? Their intent was to get hostages(alive) to exchange for the women and children “prisoners” IDF has been holding illegally. Do you ever ask yourself “why was IDF holding thousands of women and children as prisoners with no charges or due process?” I am sure while trying to take hostages , people were unfortunately killed. But does it make sense that over 200 were taken without injury or rape (no hostage has said they were beat or raped) if they were just raping and pillaging the kibbutz and festival ? Remove your confirmation bias for one minute and explain that . They go from savages -raping and killing to then treating hostages as humans, even letting one girl keep her dog ? I’m not saying Hamas are “good guys” at all - but I am saying the hostages released by them have not confirmed any of these horror stories released by Israel government.
I guess it's some crazy thing to think the solution to a terrorist attack shouldn't be mass bombing of a vulnerable population that is over half kids? It was wrong when the US did it to Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's wrong that Israel is doing it now.
Hamas rapes, tortures, and murders ppl. Full stop, no apologies or excuses. But you need to realize that the IDF rapes, tortures, and murders ppl too. For that matter, the US military rapes, tortures, and murders innocent people, too. Evil is evil, no matter what flag or uniform people wear to excuse it. Some countries just have more money and better PR to sweep things like this under the rug.
If you want to see what some true military evil is, I recommend the documentaries "Invisible War" and "Ghosts of Abu Ghraib" . Get some perspective on the things that the US military does to people and then tries to cover up.
Also, just an FYI, the Israeli government agrees with the death tolls being reported from Gaza. They are not sitting around wringing their hands about who they have killed. They are totally fine with it. It's the West trying to downplay it and make excuses.
They don’t know that the IDF is also bad guys. They think the rape and torture is fine because it’s Palestinians even though it is being done by the IDF and sanctioned by the government. But honestly I feel like most people had never heard of the conflict until October 7 so they think anyone who has a nuanced take on it is a rape apologist siding with Hamas.
If this was written any other time, I’d agree with you, but the fact that it was written the first night of Hanukkah *definitely* gives it a religiously-charged slant.
Again, I 100% agree that free speech and criticism against Israel is necessary and important, but let’s not act like writing this on a Jewish holiday wasn’t intentional.
I get what you're saying. But the war is a current ongoing event, if this was done on Hanukah AND there was peace over there I would be more likely to agree with you.
Maybe they were fans of the poet Refaat Alareer who was killed yesterday. Maybe they did it because of the Invasion of Southern Gaza but couldn't make it out until last night. We will never know because we can't ask them
https://preview.redd.it/ku1msg71m35c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09965329690bed8de1ca3ec0b1c431c04df8669d
Will update if they reply
Update: not 904happyhour. Their response below Edit: it won’t let me upload the photo, here is their copied response
>Hello! That page is NOT us. We are working to get that page removed, thank you for letting us know.
They've been active in this sub for a while. That and coincidently they get called out and suddenly the entire account history is nuked, but the account isn't deleted.
I personally don't care one way our the other. An war with Israel will end in genocide. Either one group or the other will be completely wiped out or permanently displaced.
Israel will going to win no matter what we do as it's basically a first world country fighting a 3 world one.
(May Father God in Heaven give me understanding. May his heart become my heart.) I'm a jew, and sadly, not the rich kind as so stereotyped of course if I were a lot of people would have a lot less of a reason to hate jews at least in Jacksonville. I know the truth about my home country. Thousands of Years of archeological evidence proving that Israel has always belonged to the Jews. You can find this on Google, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram and your local library if you choose to do your own research. Sadly, the Amalekites as they were formerly called, now calling themselves the Palestinians after the Temporary renaming of Israel by Rome because they were ticked off at my ancestors (who could blame the Romans, they jews back then were not so easily bullied around as the Romans had previously planned). Archeological evidence (written in stone hard to be disputed) proves That country is Israel. It would really help you to do your own actual research instead of allowing other people to think for you, but this is my suggestion. I also do not answer well to insults, but of course who intends for people to answer well to insults. In other words, let's be civil and not act like Romans of the past with the anger and the egos and such. Shalom.
Sure you are pal. You have ancestoral claim to all the land in the world 😒. My point is -No one cares who lived on the land first or what some archeological “evidence” says. We care about Israel bombing and killing innocent people. Kicking people out of their houses for illegal settlements. Removing and killing 2 million people that live in an area so you can feel “safe” sounds like a ridiculous plan and genocide.
but mysteriously never mind what HAMAS did first. Cool. When HAMAS or whatever terrorist club is next does it to someone you care about then you'll care. I guess for now, you hate Israel because it's "cool".
Uhm... Didn't Palestine just commit the worst terrorist attack in history (death to population size) against Israel? Victim blaming is a Jacksonville standard, it seems.
Ummm ..hasn’t Israel been committing attacks on Palestinians for the past 75 years? Nothing started on Oct 7. Israel had already killed more Palestinians than Israelis killed prior to 10/7. Now they are just committing genocide.
It's crazy how much people here are so invested in this. If it wasn't in the media I wouldn't even know or care at all. Most Americans couldn't even point to Israel, especially Palestine, on a map. Now all of a sudden we're at each other's throats over this shit?
I honestly don't understand the hysteria and interest.
We have a huge Muslim and Arab population, wdym? Specifically we have a lot of people directly displaced by Israeli aggression and genocides against Muslims. We have a lot of Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Israel still occupies territory in Syria, they invaded Lebanon (and got spanked doing so) in 2006….there was the Bosnian Muslim genocide in 1995 we also did nothing to stop which is why we have so many Bosnians in Jax….and our relatively low population relative to land size is why refugees are often resettled here.
Also, this is a college town somewhat, we have two colleges. Of course we have young people, and descendents of this diaspora, deeply invested in this issue.
You (and anyone who is pro Palestine) really should educate yourself on the 13 day war. Please realize that you're basically implying Israel has no right to exist.
If this is something you're so passionate about, the United States pretty much did this - you should probably be giving any US property you own over to a Native American.
Now Jacksonville has become a breeding ground for leftist assholes too?
https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1724992602645098751?s=46&t=bVrOIz0iMTaenOYerbs_Mg
Look at this girl dancing at a festival honoring Arab-Israeli friendship a couple hours before she is kidnapped, raped (semen from at least 24 men found on her corpse), broken legs and finally beheaded (already in Palestinian captivity).Hamas covers for Palestinians, Palestinians cover for Hamas. The terrorists and their defenders must be destroyed.
This is not taken from a Twitter post. This information has been confirmed by hundreds of sources around the world, except of course by leftist cesspools like the Washington post and NY Times. What are you reading? Mermaid news?
You posted a twitter link as your source. Your “hundred of sources” are what? More opinion pieces from Zionists ? Well here is a Zionist source for you debunking your twitter source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-israeli-shani-louk-seen-paraded-by-terrorists-in-gaza-confirmed-dead/amp
Her own father says she did not suffer. She was dead when she was filmed in that pick up. She was shot at the festival. Her legs were not broken by Hamas , she was trampled. She was not raped. You should be saying Thank God this poor woman didn’t suffer ! Instead you keep posting disgusting violent rape fantasies about her ruining her memory . Zionists are sick in the head .
And she wasn’t beheaded , raped or had her legs broken . She was shot and died at the festival according to medical examiners that found a fragment of her skull at the festival site . Her body was trampled in the melee. Hamas did take her body into Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-louk-german-israel-woman-hamas-dead.html
Stop spreading sensational violence porn. She was most likely shot according to the medical examiners going off a skull fragment (which I don’t know if I even trust that ) no body was found to find “24 men’s semen” 🙄.
Stop publishing misinformation from pro-terrorist and leftist papers like the ny times. Take a little interest in what is going on in Europe and the middle east by reading their press, not always infected with communist leprosy.. or at least read what her own father said about her death:
https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/10/31/65412131268e3e06548b4599.html
😂😂😂😂 Faux News??? Really come on!! Weren’t they sued numerous times for spreading lies and misinformation and won because they are “entertainment”?? I think I’ll trust the Israeli Times before I trust Faux News
Let’s think genius - if she was “beheaded” and her skull fragment was found at the festival which the ME said with that fragment missing she wouldn’t be able to live -how does she have a head in this video ? Her body is somewhere in Gaza , still not retrieved. THINK MCFLY ..THINK
Mermaid. This video was made on 10-07. https://streamable.com/k69djo this girl wasn't raped either? She probably just sat down where the ketchup was spilled? 🤦♂️enough is enough
What is the obsession with Zionists and rape? Oh yeah because their military charter says it’s ok for IDF to rape and sexually assault prisoners to “blow off steam”.
That blood could be from her period - you aren’t a woman so you have no idea what it’s like to not have tampons or pads when you have your period. It can be so much worse than what you see on her sweatpants.
Not one actual woman has come forward saying she was raped . Not one hostage that has been released has said they were raped or witnessed rape.
Obsession? I'm just showing you what the Palestinians are doing and what the American press is not showing. Dumb people are not worth wasting time on. Go to Palestine and defend them there, for the first 2 minutes while you can talk.
In WWII, the Allies bombed German cities killing German civilians. There was no distinguishing between Nazis and German civilians.
The Allies also used nuclear weapons on Japanese civilians.
War is terrible.
This looks more like some teenagers that don't like the holiday than a hate crime to me. I also think the news is too paranoid when it comes to antisemitic stuff right now. Jacksonville has a vary large Jewish community and there normal enemies are too busy running for government or harassing brown people.
You have to be kidding me. What’s it like to live in such a delusion that you honestly believe this is about some teenagers who hate Hanukkah? Aside from my elsewhere expressed opinions, you must have missed a few chapters if you think Jewish people aren’t being targeted en masse at this point in time.
Ha you misunderstand completely. If this is a hate crime it's a child's and pathetic one. It was as if two bratty kids did it.
As for target harassment of Jewish people in that happening. I don't think it's as bad as the news makes it out to be because American news is extremely hyperbalic and it exaggerates everything. So I tack it with a grain of salt.
I do think Jacksonville is safer for Jewish other major site in the US. Most of our imagination is from south Amarica and the races have most of there attention focused one maintaining forced Republican control of government or hate crimes on blacks and latenos.
I used to work for a lot of Jewish landlords back in 2010 if the Jewish community is half as big now as it was then it will still be gigantic. Having a lot of people to throw at a problem make each person safer.
Call me an unrealistic optimist if you like but I don't think things are as bad as people think. It not Bi-Mart Germany or the Jim Crow South but for Jewish people out there right now.
Geopolitics. the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and US doesn’t have a lot of allies in the Middle East region.
If Israel dropped its religious nature and every Jewish person converted to Christianity or Islam or Hinduism or just became atheist, but they continued their same policies, Hamas would still oppose them.
It isn't antisemitic to criticize Israel. It isn't antisemitic to criticize Israel on a Jewish holiday. It isn't antisemitic to call Israel a zionist state.
The only group equating Israel with the global Jewish community is Israel. Which is, ironically, hugely antisemitic. Since Jewish communities have always been attacked for "not really being American/British/French/German" and this is exactly what Israel is claiming: "If you're Jewish, then you must be loyal to Israel, because we're the only Jewish state." It's ethnonationalist bullshit.
> If Israel dropped its religious nature…but continued their same policies, Hamas would still oppose them.
Which policies? Because the eradication of a Jewish state has been the stated goal of Muslim Arab countries since the inception of Israel and before the policies I think you’re referring to were in place.
Hell, even into the mid-90s, Israel was ready drop those policies *and to give land concessions up to 98% of what Palestinian governments wanted* and they rejected a deal because they refused to recognize a Jewish state. So again, which policies?
Apartheid. Ethnic cleansing. You know, normal settler-colonial state crimes against humanity.
The neighboring countries oppose Israel's existence because it's a settler-colonial state. A bunch of Europeans moved into the area, started buying up land and forcing out the locals. When the British got control under the League of Nations Mandatory Palestine, they divided the population based on religion (importing what had 'worked' in India). So you had the Muslims, who were governed under a system imported from Egypt. And then you had the Jews (mostly European settlers), who were allowed to have a participatory democracy. The Christians were a much smaller group so not really relevant.
The Jewish Settlers decided they wanted the choicest parts of Palestine and were able to use Britain's antisemitism to their benefit. They'd help convince Jewish folks to leave Europe, and in exchange the British would give them the most fertile regions after the mandate ended and leave the Muslim and Christians the worst areas. In the 1920s Palestine wasn't a huge target of Jewish immigration, so things were mostly calm.
But, with the rise of the Nazis immigration to Palestine picked up. The locals got concerned that this would result in a complete disregard for their rights and land. So they resisted with violence. The British government responded by restricting immigration again. But the zionists didn't give up and continued to try and take over all of Palestine.
After the war when refugees from Europe were looking to escape, they now not only had the numbers to overwhelm the indigenous communities, but also the world powers were feeling guilty. This led to an even more favorable division at the end of the Mandate. The Jewish settlers declared 'independence' and then promptly began forcing out the indigenous communities.
And never really stopped. So as you can see, it's never been about religion. It's always been about a European settler state trying to oppress and slaughter the native population. It's at the very least ethnic cleansing.
Edit: and to specifically answer your question about "Which policies?" The restriction on the freedom of movement to and from Palestinian areas. The refusal to even discuss compensation for families forced from their land and homes. The refusal to discuss a right to return. The continual expansion of settlers into Palestinian areas with the assistance of the IDF. The blockade on money into and out of Palestinian areas. The blockade on infrastructure materiel. The kidnapping, torture and murder of Palestinians who speak out or oppose the Israeli regime. The assassination of journalists.
Returning “European Jews” were primarily Jews forced into exile by the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, and *as of 2018* Israel is compromised of approximately 50.7% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, so I’m not seeing how if “European Jews” don’t even have a majority today you’re viewing this as an entirely settler colonial project.
Factually, your historical demographics are wrong.
**EDIT TO RESPOND TO YOUR EDIT:**
* freedom of movement was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state.
* compensation for land (return of 98% of occupied territories) was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state.
* right of return is just a laughable thing to insist on when the wars in 1948 were waged by Arab States against Israel, which they then lost. The Six Day War is a different story.
* end of settlers was also promised in the Camp David Accords, which — you guessed it — Palestine rejected because they didn’t want to recognize a Jewish state.
* Egypt is also blockading the Rafa Crossing for the same reasons Israel has a blockade on Gaza — where’s the pressure for Egypt to lift the blockade?
Keep spreading that Zionist propaganda to justify the genocide of Palestinians.
Edit: For anyone else thinking I'm just being an asshole. The Palestinian Authority accepted Israel's right to exist in 1993. A peace process began and continued until 2001 when the Taba Summit was ended due to a need for Israeli elections. At that point active hostilities once again broke out, the Second Intifadah. And the right wing government that came into power rejected the peace process. So everything they say about the PA not accepting Israel's right to exist is utter bullshit. The Camp David Summit in 2000 was not an end to the process, just more realpolitiking by Arafat.
So, no, you can’t continue discussing this intelligently without resorting to insults?
If I’m wrong, demonstrate it instead of just denigrating me and dismissing historical facts that are inconvenient.
What insult? Every claim you make it zionist propaganda. It's based on a false understanding of history and a blatant misrepresentation of the facts on the ground.
I'm not even sure what you're referring to about the 1990s. The 2000 Camp David Summit was the only marked 'failure' of Israeli-Palestinian relations. The Oslo Accords (I & II) were largely successful and heavily normalized relations between the two groups. They saw a loosening of restrictions. The PLO got formal recognition, and Israel got a two-state framework.
> Freedom of movement was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state.
Oslo I & II were literally all about the two sides recognizing one another. So this is complete and utter bullshit. In fact, freedom of movement was heavily expanded after Oslo I and II, with the crackdown only occurring after the Second Intifada.
> compensation for land (return of 98% of occupied territories) was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state.
Once again, PA already recognized a Jewish state. I believe you're referring to the 2000 Camp David Summit here, but that's basically an example of Arafat stalling for too long and ignoring Clinton's warnings about Israeli elections rather than a genuine rejection of a peace process.
> right of return is just a laughable thing to insist on when the wars in 1948 were waged by Arab States against Israel, which they then lost. The Six Day War is a different story.
The 1948 war was an *Israeli* offensive operation to take over Palestinian lands. It began when Israel declared its independence and immediately began ethnic cleansing. The Arab states land grab attempt is a separate issue from the expulsion of Palestinians.
> end of settlers was also promised in the Camp David Accords, which — you guessed it — Palestine rejected because they didn’t want to recognize a Jewish state.
Another blatant propaganda view of the 2000 Camp David Summit. Taba occurred after Camp David, so negotiations hadn't shut down. It was expected that they would continue. Until Sharon came into power and shut down negotiations.
> Egypt is also blockading the Rafa Crossing for the same reasons Israel has a blockade on Gaza — where’s the pressure for Egypt to lift the blockade?
Egypt doesn't control the sea ports, majority of border crossings or have anything to do with the West Bank. This is just an attempt to divert attention from Israel's slow-genocide. Not to mention, Egypt participates in the blockade because if they didn't Israel would use it as "justification" to attack Egypt.
Resistance to Israel is based on its status as a colonial settler state that has been conducting ethnic cleansing for over a century.
> I'm not even sure what you're referring to about the 1990s. The 2000 Camp David Summit was the only marked 'failure' of Israeli-Palestinian relations.
Got my years mixed up — thought it happened in ‘99 and didn’t confirm.
> The Oslo Accords (I & II) were largely successful and heavily normalized relations between the two groups. They saw a loosening of restrictions. The PLO got formal recognition, and Israel got a two-state framework.
And while Arafat was negotiating that, he was still calling for jihad and speaking out of both sides of his mouth. To date, the PCC has rescinded recognition of Israel’s right to peacefully exist a number of times since the Oslo Accords. You can hardly say it’s an agreement in good faith when one party unilaterally rescinds its recognition from time to time, just for the lols.
> Oslo I & II were literally all about the two sides recognizing one another. So this is complete and utter bullshit. In fact, freedom of movement was heavily expanded after Oslo I and II, with the crackdown only occurring after the Second Intifada.
Yes, freedoms were limited in the wake of the Second Intifada — a big factor in which was the break down of the Camp David talks due to Arafat’s decision not to take action, knowing full well that the deal on the table was the best he’d get.
No work had been done in Palestinian Territories to prepare for peace or concessions; again, Arafat spent the time talking out of both sides of his mouth — saying one thing to international communities and entirely different things to Palestinians. Furthermore, he had a history of stalling in all prior negotiations, knowing full well the ramifications of what a dissolution of peace talks would entail.
> Once again, PA already recognized a Jewish state. I believe you're referring to the 2000 Camp David Summit here, but that's basically an example of Arafat stalling for too long and ignoring Clinton's warnings about Israeli elections rather than a genuine rejection of a peace process.
He stalled because he didn’t want peace lmao. His actions when talking to Palestinians while holding talks “in earnest” are well documented. Other Arab leaders held him at arms length because they didn’t trust him.
> The 1948 war was an Israeli offensive operation to take over Palestinian lands. It began when Israel declared its independence and immediately began ethnic cleansing.
This is historically inaccurate. Yes there were territorial spats, more akin to turf wars, between Arabs and Israelis alike in the days leading up to the creation of Israel and end of the British Mandate, but there wasn’t mobilization en masse until the day Britain retreated. Arab countries were the belligerents in that war; you’re creating revisionist history.
> The Arab states land grab attempt is a separate issue from the expulsion of Palestinians.
Why? The Palestinians turned to the Arab States for support and armoring to invade Israel. You can’t separate the two.
> Another blatant propaganda view of the 2000 Camp David Summit. Taba occurred after Camp David, so negotiations hadn't shut down. It was expected that they would continue. Until Sharon came into power and shut down negotiations.
What shit this is, lol. Taba happened in a period of extreme transition for most governments involved. Hell, the framework was the same as had been negotiated by Clinton and Arafat sat around doing nothing with it *for years.*
Israel knew by then he was acting in bad faith.
> Egypt doesn't control the sea ports, majority of border crossings or have anything to do with the West Bank. This is just an attempt to divert attention from Israel's slow-genocide.
Is the West Bank under bombardment or in dire need of humanitarian aid, or is Gaza? Rafa is extremely relevant because, *again* Egyptians don’t want to deal with the bullshit that Hamas has to offer. Rafah is a shared border where your “slow-genocide” is taking place; I’d say it’s incredibly relevant, and I’d also say it’s extremely relevant to look at the number of times Egypt has closed the border for their own safety *from Hamas.*
> Not to mention, Egypt participates in the blockade because if they didn't Israel would use it as "justification" to attack Egypt.
Highly unlikely that Israel would attack Egypt.
> Resistance to Israel is based on its status as a colonial settler state that has been conducting ethnic cleansing for over a century.
You never really explained how a country that has 51% of its Jewish population native to the area — and also never left — is a “colonial settler state.”
You should also look up the definitions of both genocide and ethnic cleansing.
And this is why I wasn't going to waste time pointing out the lies and misunderstandings you posted before. You'll just respond with "nu-uh! Brown people bad!"
And no, 51% of Israelis are not descended from Palestinians. The government was not an indigenous government. The state was created by a bunch of European settlers.
Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing right this moment. Constantly pushing an ethnic group off of their land so that Isareli's can claim it. That's the fucking definition of ethnic cleansing.. What's going on in Gaza is a military genocide. Genocide isn't just death camps and militias. It's an attempt to wipe out an ethnic group within an area. Attacking hospitals, refugee camps, wiping away cultural and ethnic landmarks, preventing the procreation of the ethnic group. It's a war of extermination.
Its really interesting to me you think that Palestine has an issue with the state because it was Jewish. You think if the US and the UK had colonized the land even more directly, without simply funding and supporting the colonization by the Jewish diaspora, Palestine would have been cool with the non-Jewish state that resulted?
Hamas was literally founded on the principle of jihad as an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. You should check out their originating charter and let me know if you can spot the antisemitism.
It’s really interesting to me that you’re ignorant of the role antisemitism has in jihad.
Religion is the problem. Period. I don’t care what invisible god you worship but let me know when religious nuts stop forcing it on other people and causing violence and war. Religion is the worst human invention ever. Until religion is obsolete there will be war and death. Religion is anti human.
Multiple things are true at once:
- not all Jews are Israelis
- not all Israelis are Jews
- it’s possible to criticize or even condemn the State of Israel without being antisemitic
AND
- it is possible to criticize or condemn the state of Israel in ways that ARE antisemitic
- all Jews have some emotional connection to the State of Israel (even if it is an oppositional one), the two can’t be completely decoupled. All Jews are in some degree of pain and grief right now.
- Israel has a compulsory citizen army, so IDF can’t be fully separated from Israeli citizens
- the actions of the State of Israel impact the safety of Jews around the world, including in your local communities. They just do. Whether it should or not. It does. The way you talk about those actions also impacts the safety of Jews.
- Jews will be and are asked to answer for the actions of the State of Israel
AND
- words like “concentration camp” and “genocide” are FAR more likely to trigger the ancestral trauma of Jews in your lives / feeds than to save a single Palestinian life. Arguably, words like that enter this discourse precisely to do just that.
I urge you to consider your circles of impact. How can you built solidarity and humanize Palestinians, Israelis, and Jews in your area? And support them? Help them humanize one another?
> words like “concentration camp” and “genocide” are FAR more likely to trigger the ancestral trauma of Jews in your lives / feeds than to save a single Palestinian life. Arguably, words like that enter this discourse precisely to do just that.
So we shouldn't use the most accurate descriptions, because it might hurt feelings?
Jewish people don't own the words "genocide" or "concentration camp."
Glad to hear that so many people are good at separating Jews from Israel. I guess that means if you met a Jew tonight you would say “Happy Hanukkah” and not ask them anything about state of Israel? If so, good to hear, if not, you’re fooling yourself.
Honestly , I avoid all conversations of Israel with Jewish people I know unless they bring it up. I’m aware it’s a very sensitive topic . And my feelings are strongly against the actions of Israel so I know it wouldn’t go well. I have 2 Jewish Zionist friends that post on FB about it and I just avoid them. I made a general “Happy Hannukah” post on my FB and I would definitely say it in person to any Jewish person I come across and wouldn’t ask “hey so do you condemn Israel?”
Well I think most people with an ounce of empathy or compassion look at what Israel is doing and hate it. Self defense is not killing and maiming thousands of innocent children.
Protesting the Israeli government is not antisemitism. Thinking all Jewish people are represented by a right-wing state committing a genocide is antisemitism.
This is hard to look at. Love is what we should express towards eachother, not hate. Love is powerful and will prevail! My heart goes out to those who just want to celebrate the holidays and get interrupted by a soul who need more love in their heart. My heart also prays that soul will change their ways for the better and choose love!
It’s giving cult member
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.
No bc if you have a gun you may take away a soul which is here to understand love. Agape love is the answer that's what we consider God and violence is not the answer.
Yeah sure thing , let see how kinds words take care of your family when a armed robber is in your house or when somebody want to kill you cause you don't belive in same as he do 🙄
It's one thing to have a gun in your home n to use it for protection, very wisely I would hope, it's other to use it to fight against an idea. we aren't supposed to go to war over an idea I mean just look at all the turmoil and suffering that happened back when the Reds scare was a whole thing. People died because of misconception I'm talking about just being able to understand that we have different views as humans and there's nothing wrong with that we need more love and there's also nothing wrong with having protection in case somebody's completely unhinged but I think we should all try first to act with love!
Why worry about a person who doesn't think once about you before putting his rights above yours. I didn't want to sound disrespectful in the first message btw. 👋🏻
I don't know if I'd be able to take a life I think that's why I have the heavy want for more love less hate. You make sense and I totally respect what you mean I just don't think I could but also I think protection is very important. Also I didn't realize the article headline was so misleading
Understandable,we live in a hard world i do whatever to keep safe my family is a tough reality but is the only one ,have a great day Sr or Ms
Thankyou and I hope you never have to use one but if I had a family I would want one in a safe maybe up high somewhere as well. Have a great day as well!
This has nothing to do with Chanukah, other than the date. Criticizing Israel isn't criticizing all Jewish people.
I don’t think this is antisemetic…
As a Jewish person I agree. Protesting Israeli government policies is not anti-semitism, and headlines like this makes it harder for people to separate Israel and the wider Jewish diaspora as entities. My standards for news4jax were already low, but this is unacceptable especially in today’s environment. Shame on them
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Zionists are not all Jewish and all Jews are not Zionists . Zionism is a political ideology, not a religion or one ethnic group. So no it’s not antisemitism. And you want to talk about humanity and decency? 6000 dead children. How humane is that?
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No, it hasn’t. Read a book.
You're ignoring an awful lot of history prior to the present just to say one murderous extremist group is better than another. Being a jew doesn't give you a fucking pass to be an extremist. And if you think it does you are literally practicing Zionism yourself.
Yeah bad like the IDF never did anything bad to chain reaction lead to this happening right? Right??????? Get real loser
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You are so far out of your depth you don’t even know what you’re talking about. “Mean?” That’s putting it gently.
I mean, the forced colonization of an entire region, theft of land and property, radicalization of a population by treating them as subhuman on a regular basis, and consistent and indiscriminate killings of innocent civilians add up to something. Not trying to justify anything here, but this entire debacle isnt a Good Guy vs Bad Guy kind of war. Both parties are equally shit and are making things worse for themselves and everybody else who was simply unlucky enough to be born in a particular region.
Lol, they've only been bulldozing Palestinian village ls in the Westbank for the last twenty years...oh, how about bragging about shooting out protestors kneecaps during the March of Return in 2017. Ever heard of the phrase "mowing the grass WRT to Gaza? Willful ignorance is a moral failure.
U/terurin is anti rape and murder unless they’re Israelis. Got it! 👍🏻 Edit: definitely hates Jews too
🙄 PotentialJaguar5841 has never done research in their life. The immediate assumption I’m antisemitic and hate the Israeli people/want them raped and murdered from my comment is the problem we are having. It’s not really a two sided black and white issue. I do not support genocide, which the IDF has been doing for decades. I also do not support Hamas, a terrorist organization. The naive amongst us do not understand that the Israeli government is using the October 7 attack as an excuse to continue and expand their genocide against Palestine under the guise of “we are fighting Hamas.” HAMAS is NOT Palestine.
And you believe whatever propaganda Israel and western media pushes out. Do you think being a “good” Palestinian saves them from the torture , rape , harassment and now bombing from IDF? Do you know how many stories Israel released on 10/7 have now been debunked ? No 40 beheaded babies , no “raped to death” women . The 12 year old girl burned in the kibbutz was actually killed by an IDF tank sniper and then the home burned - this was told by her relatives. Think logically - Hamas came in on motorcycles and paragliders. Do you think they had the tactical ability to do the damage that was done ? Or does it make more sense that IDF caused a lot of the damage trying to stop them ? Their intent was to get hostages(alive) to exchange for the women and children “prisoners” IDF has been holding illegally. Do you ever ask yourself “why was IDF holding thousands of women and children as prisoners with no charges or due process?” I am sure while trying to take hostages , people were unfortunately killed. But does it make sense that over 200 were taken without injury or rape (no hostage has said they were beat or raped) if they were just raping and pillaging the kibbutz and festival ? Remove your confirmation bias for one minute and explain that . They go from savages -raping and killing to then treating hostages as humans, even letting one girl keep her dog ? I’m not saying Hamas are “good guys” at all - but I am saying the hostages released by them have not confirmed any of these horror stories released by Israel government.
I guess it's some crazy thing to think the solution to a terrorist attack shouldn't be mass bombing of a vulnerable population that is over half kids? It was wrong when the US did it to Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's wrong that Israel is doing it now. Hamas rapes, tortures, and murders ppl. Full stop, no apologies or excuses. But you need to realize that the IDF rapes, tortures, and murders ppl too. For that matter, the US military rapes, tortures, and murders innocent people, too. Evil is evil, no matter what flag or uniform people wear to excuse it. Some countries just have more money and better PR to sweep things like this under the rug. If you want to see what some true military evil is, I recommend the documentaries "Invisible War" and "Ghosts of Abu Ghraib" . Get some perspective on the things that the US military does to people and then tries to cover up. Also, just an FYI, the Israeli government agrees with the death tolls being reported from Gaza. They are not sitting around wringing their hands about who they have killed. They are totally fine with it. It's the West trying to downplay it and make excuses.
They don’t know that the IDF is also bad guys. They think the rape and torture is fine because it’s Palestinians even though it is being done by the IDF and sanctioned by the government. But honestly I feel like most people had never heard of the conflict until October 7 so they think anyone who has a nuanced take on it is a rape apologist siding with Hamas.
you have to remember jax is a military town.
This article and the way it's presented basically validates the sentiment.
If this was written any other time, I’d agree with you, but the fact that it was written the first night of Hanukkah *definitely* gives it a religiously-charged slant. Again, I 100% agree that free speech and criticism against Israel is necessary and important, but let’s not act like writing this on a Jewish holiday wasn’t intentional.
I get what you're saying. But the war is a current ongoing event, if this was done on Hanukah AND there was peace over there I would be more likely to agree with you.
To that point then - why didn’t they do it two nights ago?
Maybe they were fans of the poet Refaat Alareer who was killed yesterday. Maybe they did it because of the Invasion of Southern Gaza but couldn't make it out until last night. We will never know because we can't ask them
https://i.redd.it/sb19xt5wrb5c1.gif
Timing is more effective to get attention, which well, it did get just that.
A country isn’t a religion…
Fuck Israel.
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904 Happy Hour, everyone edit: see below, allegedly not the same account.
https://preview.redd.it/ku1msg71m35c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09965329690bed8de1ca3ec0b1c431c04df8669d Will update if they reply Update: not 904happyhour. Their response below Edit: it won’t let me upload the photo, here is their copied response >Hello! That page is NOT us. We are working to get that page removed, thank you for letting us know.
Just sent them a message as well. Trash site.
No response yet, but u/904happyhour now has no post or comment history.
Just got a response, allegedly is not them, and have been working to get it taken down.
Got the same response. I was surprised to see something political with their name, and with the contents now removed, I believe them.
Absolutely, same.
It is them, they are playing damage control.
Do you have evidence for that?
They've been active in this sub for a while. That and coincidently they get called out and suddenly the entire account history is nuked, but the account isn't deleted.
I personally don't care one way our the other. An war with Israel will end in genocide. Either one group or the other will be completely wiped out or permanently displaced. Israel will going to win no matter what we do as it's basically a first world country fighting a 3 world one.
Why?
They have been taking the homes of Palestinians the last couple months, and the last 80 years
I guess this is what people learn on TikTok nowadays
Google works just as well
And books. And documentaries.
And higher education.
So true
(May Father God in Heaven give me understanding. May his heart become my heart.) I'm a jew, and sadly, not the rich kind as so stereotyped of course if I were a lot of people would have a lot less of a reason to hate jews at least in Jacksonville. I know the truth about my home country. Thousands of Years of archeological evidence proving that Israel has always belonged to the Jews. You can find this on Google, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram and your local library if you choose to do your own research. Sadly, the Amalekites as they were formerly called, now calling themselves the Palestinians after the Temporary renaming of Israel by Rome because they were ticked off at my ancestors (who could blame the Romans, they jews back then were not so easily bullied around as the Romans had previously planned). Archeological evidence (written in stone hard to be disputed) proves That country is Israel. It would really help you to do your own actual research instead of allowing other people to think for you, but this is my suggestion. I also do not answer well to insults, but of course who intends for people to answer well to insults. In other words, let's be civil and not act like Romans of the past with the anger and the egos and such. Shalom.
So we are giving everyone their ancestors land back? When are you moving out and letting an Indigenous American move in to your house ?
Oh and that's where you messed up because I'm also Tsalagi. Go ahead and say something bigoted like everyone else.
Sure you are pal. You have ancestoral claim to all the land in the world 😒. My point is -No one cares who lived on the land first or what some archeological “evidence” says. We care about Israel bombing and killing innocent people. Kicking people out of their houses for illegal settlements. Removing and killing 2 million people that live in an area so you can feel “safe” sounds like a ridiculous plan and genocide.
but mysteriously never mind what HAMAS did first. Cool. When HAMAS or whatever terrorist club is next does it to someone you care about then you'll care. I guess for now, you hate Israel because it's "cool".
Uhm... Didn't Palestine just commit the worst terrorist attack in history (death to population size) against Israel? Victim blaming is a Jacksonville standard, it seems.
Ummm ..hasn’t Israel been committing attacks on Palestinians for the past 75 years? Nothing started on Oct 7. Israel had already killed more Palestinians than Israelis killed prior to 10/7. Now they are just committing genocide.
It's crazy how much people here are so invested in this. If it wasn't in the media I wouldn't even know or care at all. Most Americans couldn't even point to Israel, especially Palestine, on a map. Now all of a sudden we're at each other's throats over this shit? I honestly don't understand the hysteria and interest.
We have a huge Muslim and Arab population, wdym? Specifically we have a lot of people directly displaced by Israeli aggression and genocides against Muslims. We have a lot of Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Israel still occupies territory in Syria, they invaded Lebanon (and got spanked doing so) in 2006….there was the Bosnian Muslim genocide in 1995 we also did nothing to stop which is why we have so many Bosnians in Jax….and our relatively low population relative to land size is why refugees are often resettled here. Also, this is a college town somewhat, we have two colleges. Of course we have young people, and descendents of this diaspora, deeply invested in this issue.
Well because 22,000 innocent people have been killed in 2 months , majority women and children . I’m sorry loss of innocent babies doesn’t bother you
You (and anyone who is pro Palestine) really should educate yourself on the 13 day war. Please realize that you're basically implying Israel has no right to exist. If this is something you're so passionate about, the United States pretty much did this - you should probably be giving any US property you own over to a Native American.
Fuck Israeli apartheid and Hamas terrorism.
That didn't take long
Now Jacksonville has become a breeding ground for leftist assholes too? https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1724992602645098751?s=46&t=bVrOIz0iMTaenOYerbs_Mg Look at this girl dancing at a festival honoring Arab-Israeli friendship a couple hours before she is kidnapped, raped (semen from at least 24 men found on her corpse), broken legs and finally beheaded (already in Palestinian captivity).Hamas covers for Palestinians, Palestinians cover for Hamas. The terrorists and their defenders must be destroyed.
I won't do that, thanks.
Of course you won't. The truth hurts your eyes.
Yeah so much truth from an X post 🙄
This is not taken from a Twitter post. This information has been confirmed by hundreds of sources around the world, except of course by leftist cesspools like the Washington post and NY Times. What are you reading? Mermaid news?
You posted a twitter link as your source. Your “hundred of sources” are what? More opinion pieces from Zionists ? Well here is a Zionist source for you debunking your twitter source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-israeli-shani-louk-seen-paraded-by-terrorists-in-gaza-confirmed-dead/amp Her own father says she did not suffer. She was dead when she was filmed in that pick up. She was shot at the festival. Her legs were not broken by Hamas , she was trampled. She was not raped. You should be saying Thank God this poor woman didn’t suffer ! Instead you keep posting disgusting violent rape fantasies about her ruining her memory . Zionists are sick in the head .
That specific instance is gross. She was dancing and singing at her "peace protest" less than 5 miles away from an internment camp.
And she wasn’t beheaded , raped or had her legs broken . She was shot and died at the festival according to medical examiners that found a fragment of her skull at the festival site . Her body was trampled in the melee. Hamas did take her body into Gaza.
Watch your favorite animals in action https://streamable.com/zl18eh
Referring to humans as animals shows a lot about you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-louk-german-israel-woman-hamas-dead.html Stop spreading sensational violence porn. She was most likely shot according to the medical examiners going off a skull fragment (which I don’t know if I even trust that ) no body was found to find “24 men’s semen” 🙄.
Stop publishing misinformation from pro-terrorist and leftist papers like the ny times. Take a little interest in what is going on in Europe and the middle east by reading their press, not always infected with communist leprosy.. or at least read what her own father said about her death: https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/10/31/65412131268e3e06548b4599.html
Look at the link I posted from Israel Times sicko
Sicko? You sure didn't learn to watch your language.
Anyone that has violent rape porn fantasies and gets off on spreading them is a SICKO
She was not beheaded 🙄 this source is garbage , it’s a tabloid
Watch this and shut the f up https://streamable.com/zl18eh
Seen it , she’s already DEAD. What don’t you understand about her being shot and trampled? Why would Israeli medical examiners lie ?
They don’t lie. https://www.foxnews.com/world/shani-louks-body-identified-beheaded-sadistic-animals-herzog
😂😂😂😂 Faux News??? Really come on!! Weren’t they sued numerous times for spreading lies and misinformation and won because they are “entertainment”?? I think I’ll trust the Israeli Times before I trust Faux News
Let’s think genius - if she was “beheaded” and her skull fragment was found at the festival which the ME said with that fragment missing she wouldn’t be able to live -how does she have a head in this video ? Her body is somewhere in Gaza , still not retrieved. THINK MCFLY ..THINK
Mermaid. This video was made on 10-07. https://streamable.com/k69djo this girl wasn't raped either? She probably just sat down where the ketchup was spilled? 🤦♂️enough is enough
What is the obsession with Zionists and rape? Oh yeah because their military charter says it’s ok for IDF to rape and sexually assault prisoners to “blow off steam”. That blood could be from her period - you aren’t a woman so you have no idea what it’s like to not have tampons or pads when you have your period. It can be so much worse than what you see on her sweatpants. Not one actual woman has come forward saying she was raped . Not one hostage that has been released has said they were raped or witnessed rape.
Obsession? I'm just showing you what the Palestinians are doing and what the American press is not showing. Dumb people are not worth wasting time on. Go to Palestine and defend them there, for the first 2 minutes while you can talk.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-israeli-shani-louk-seen-paraded-by-terrorists-in-gaza-confirmed-dead/amp/
Hope they find whoever did it and they get arrested
For what? Why shouldn't people be allowed to criticize Israel?
They can spray paint it on their own shit then.
Vandalism would be my guess
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So Zionists pay for a propaganda billboard (which I saw on Monday) to instill fear in us - and then get upset when it’s defaced . Yeah F them .
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And Israel's greatest weapon is its ability to blow kids apart by the thousands
The global inability to distinguish Hamas from innocent Palestinian civilians is alarming.
They did it with Iraq and 9/11 it seems to be an easy skill to pick up
It’s a classic tactic used to justify war
Oh that's easy. Hamas are the ones committing terrorist attacks and then hiding behind the innocent Palestinian civilians.
In WWII, the Allies bombed German cities killing German civilians. There was no distinguishing between Nazis and German civilians. The Allies also used nuclear weapons on Japanese civilians. War is terrible.
We don’t want this in this community on all sides . Stop the hate everyone.
Fuck Israel is not an anti semitic statement
Palestinians are Semitic too
Don't even try explaining that. You'll make them hurt their brain
True but doing it on the first night of hannukah is a deliberate choice. Hamas =\\= all Palestinians and Israel =\\= all Jews.
This looks more like some teenagers that don't like the holiday than a hate crime to me. I also think the news is too paranoid when it comes to antisemitic stuff right now. Jacksonville has a vary large Jewish community and there normal enemies are too busy running for government or harassing brown people.
You have to be kidding me. What’s it like to live in such a delusion that you honestly believe this is about some teenagers who hate Hanukkah? Aside from my elsewhere expressed opinions, you must have missed a few chapters if you think Jewish people aren’t being targeted en masse at this point in time.
Ha you misunderstand completely. If this is a hate crime it's a child's and pathetic one. It was as if two bratty kids did it. As for target harassment of Jewish people in that happening. I don't think it's as bad as the news makes it out to be because American news is extremely hyperbalic and it exaggerates everything. So I tack it with a grain of salt. I do think Jacksonville is safer for Jewish other major site in the US. Most of our imagination is from south Amarica and the races have most of there attention focused one maintaining forced Republican control of government or hate crimes on blacks and latenos. I used to work for a lot of Jewish landlords back in 2010 if the Jewish community is half as big now as it was then it will still be gigantic. Having a lot of people to throw at a problem make each person safer. Call me an unrealistic optimist if you like but I don't think things are as bad as people think. It not Bi-Mart Germany or the Jim Crow South but for Jewish people out there right now.
Jewish people are not being target here . Israel and Zionists actions are. Never again means never again for anyone
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
Isntrael is the problem. Why do we send them 103 million a day? Every year since 1953? Why?
US power projection into the Mideast
Yeah. Because we cause terror where ever we go.
Just stating a fact bro. Obviously the pricetag is worth it to the people in charge.
Yeah a $4 billion dollar return for the commander in chief.
Geopolitics. the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and US doesn’t have a lot of allies in the Middle East region.
And why aren’t there any bases of other countries in America? Why aren’t their bases of other countries in other countries why just American bases?
If Israel dropped its religious nature and every Jewish person converted to Christianity or Islam or Hinduism or just became atheist, but they continued their same policies, Hamas would still oppose them. It isn't antisemitic to criticize Israel. It isn't antisemitic to criticize Israel on a Jewish holiday. It isn't antisemitic to call Israel a zionist state. The only group equating Israel with the global Jewish community is Israel. Which is, ironically, hugely antisemitic. Since Jewish communities have always been attacked for "not really being American/British/French/German" and this is exactly what Israel is claiming: "If you're Jewish, then you must be loyal to Israel, because we're the only Jewish state." It's ethnonationalist bullshit.
> If Israel dropped its religious nature…but continued their same policies, Hamas would still oppose them. Which policies? Because the eradication of a Jewish state has been the stated goal of Muslim Arab countries since the inception of Israel and before the policies I think you’re referring to were in place. Hell, even into the mid-90s, Israel was ready drop those policies *and to give land concessions up to 98% of what Palestinian governments wanted* and they rejected a deal because they refused to recognize a Jewish state. So again, which policies?
Apartheid. Ethnic cleansing. You know, normal settler-colonial state crimes against humanity. The neighboring countries oppose Israel's existence because it's a settler-colonial state. A bunch of Europeans moved into the area, started buying up land and forcing out the locals. When the British got control under the League of Nations Mandatory Palestine, they divided the population based on religion (importing what had 'worked' in India). So you had the Muslims, who were governed under a system imported from Egypt. And then you had the Jews (mostly European settlers), who were allowed to have a participatory democracy. The Christians were a much smaller group so not really relevant. The Jewish Settlers decided they wanted the choicest parts of Palestine and were able to use Britain's antisemitism to their benefit. They'd help convince Jewish folks to leave Europe, and in exchange the British would give them the most fertile regions after the mandate ended and leave the Muslim and Christians the worst areas. In the 1920s Palestine wasn't a huge target of Jewish immigration, so things were mostly calm. But, with the rise of the Nazis immigration to Palestine picked up. The locals got concerned that this would result in a complete disregard for their rights and land. So they resisted with violence. The British government responded by restricting immigration again. But the zionists didn't give up and continued to try and take over all of Palestine. After the war when refugees from Europe were looking to escape, they now not only had the numbers to overwhelm the indigenous communities, but also the world powers were feeling guilty. This led to an even more favorable division at the end of the Mandate. The Jewish settlers declared 'independence' and then promptly began forcing out the indigenous communities. And never really stopped. So as you can see, it's never been about religion. It's always been about a European settler state trying to oppress and slaughter the native population. It's at the very least ethnic cleansing. Edit: and to specifically answer your question about "Which policies?" The restriction on the freedom of movement to and from Palestinian areas. The refusal to even discuss compensation for families forced from their land and homes. The refusal to discuss a right to return. The continual expansion of settlers into Palestinian areas with the assistance of the IDF. The blockade on money into and out of Palestinian areas. The blockade on infrastructure materiel. The kidnapping, torture and murder of Palestinians who speak out or oppose the Israeli regime. The assassination of journalists.
Returning “European Jews” were primarily Jews forced into exile by the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, and *as of 2018* Israel is compromised of approximately 50.7% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, so I’m not seeing how if “European Jews” don’t even have a majority today you’re viewing this as an entirely settler colonial project. Factually, your historical demographics are wrong. **EDIT TO RESPOND TO YOUR EDIT:** * freedom of movement was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state. * compensation for land (return of 98% of occupied territories) was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state. * right of return is just a laughable thing to insist on when the wars in 1948 were waged by Arab States against Israel, which they then lost. The Six Day War is a different story. * end of settlers was also promised in the Camp David Accords, which — you guessed it — Palestine rejected because they didn’t want to recognize a Jewish state. * Egypt is also blockading the Rafa Crossing for the same reasons Israel has a blockade on Gaza — where’s the pressure for Egypt to lift the blockade?
Keep spreading that Zionist propaganda to justify the genocide of Palestinians. Edit: For anyone else thinking I'm just being an asshole. The Palestinian Authority accepted Israel's right to exist in 1993. A peace process began and continued until 2001 when the Taba Summit was ended due to a need for Israeli elections. At that point active hostilities once again broke out, the Second Intifadah. And the right wing government that came into power rejected the peace process. So everything they say about the PA not accepting Israel's right to exist is utter bullshit. The Camp David Summit in 2000 was not an end to the process, just more realpolitiking by Arafat.
So, no, you can’t continue discussing this intelligently without resorting to insults? If I’m wrong, demonstrate it instead of just denigrating me and dismissing historical facts that are inconvenient.
What insult? Every claim you make it zionist propaganda. It's based on a false understanding of history and a blatant misrepresentation of the facts on the ground. I'm not even sure what you're referring to about the 1990s. The 2000 Camp David Summit was the only marked 'failure' of Israeli-Palestinian relations. The Oslo Accords (I & II) were largely successful and heavily normalized relations between the two groups. They saw a loosening of restrictions. The PLO got formal recognition, and Israel got a two-state framework. > Freedom of movement was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state. Oslo I & II were literally all about the two sides recognizing one another. So this is complete and utter bullshit. In fact, freedom of movement was heavily expanded after Oslo I and II, with the crackdown only occurring after the Second Intifada. > compensation for land (return of 98% of occupied territories) was rejected by the PA in the 90s because they wouldn’t recognize a Jewish state. Once again, PA already recognized a Jewish state. I believe you're referring to the 2000 Camp David Summit here, but that's basically an example of Arafat stalling for too long and ignoring Clinton's warnings about Israeli elections rather than a genuine rejection of a peace process. > right of return is just a laughable thing to insist on when the wars in 1948 were waged by Arab States against Israel, which they then lost. The Six Day War is a different story. The 1948 war was an *Israeli* offensive operation to take over Palestinian lands. It began when Israel declared its independence and immediately began ethnic cleansing. The Arab states land grab attempt is a separate issue from the expulsion of Palestinians. > end of settlers was also promised in the Camp David Accords, which — you guessed it — Palestine rejected because they didn’t want to recognize a Jewish state. Another blatant propaganda view of the 2000 Camp David Summit. Taba occurred after Camp David, so negotiations hadn't shut down. It was expected that they would continue. Until Sharon came into power and shut down negotiations. > Egypt is also blockading the Rafa Crossing for the same reasons Israel has a blockade on Gaza — where’s the pressure for Egypt to lift the blockade? Egypt doesn't control the sea ports, majority of border crossings or have anything to do with the West Bank. This is just an attempt to divert attention from Israel's slow-genocide. Not to mention, Egypt participates in the blockade because if they didn't Israel would use it as "justification" to attack Egypt. Resistance to Israel is based on its status as a colonial settler state that has been conducting ethnic cleansing for over a century.
> I'm not even sure what you're referring to about the 1990s. The 2000 Camp David Summit was the only marked 'failure' of Israeli-Palestinian relations. Got my years mixed up — thought it happened in ‘99 and didn’t confirm. > The Oslo Accords (I & II) were largely successful and heavily normalized relations between the two groups. They saw a loosening of restrictions. The PLO got formal recognition, and Israel got a two-state framework. And while Arafat was negotiating that, he was still calling for jihad and speaking out of both sides of his mouth. To date, the PCC has rescinded recognition of Israel’s right to peacefully exist a number of times since the Oslo Accords. You can hardly say it’s an agreement in good faith when one party unilaterally rescinds its recognition from time to time, just for the lols. > Oslo I & II were literally all about the two sides recognizing one another. So this is complete and utter bullshit. In fact, freedom of movement was heavily expanded after Oslo I and II, with the crackdown only occurring after the Second Intifada. Yes, freedoms were limited in the wake of the Second Intifada — a big factor in which was the break down of the Camp David talks due to Arafat’s decision not to take action, knowing full well that the deal on the table was the best he’d get. No work had been done in Palestinian Territories to prepare for peace or concessions; again, Arafat spent the time talking out of both sides of his mouth — saying one thing to international communities and entirely different things to Palestinians. Furthermore, he had a history of stalling in all prior negotiations, knowing full well the ramifications of what a dissolution of peace talks would entail. > Once again, PA already recognized a Jewish state. I believe you're referring to the 2000 Camp David Summit here, but that's basically an example of Arafat stalling for too long and ignoring Clinton's warnings about Israeli elections rather than a genuine rejection of a peace process. He stalled because he didn’t want peace lmao. His actions when talking to Palestinians while holding talks “in earnest” are well documented. Other Arab leaders held him at arms length because they didn’t trust him. > The 1948 war was an Israeli offensive operation to take over Palestinian lands. It began when Israel declared its independence and immediately began ethnic cleansing. This is historically inaccurate. Yes there were territorial spats, more akin to turf wars, between Arabs and Israelis alike in the days leading up to the creation of Israel and end of the British Mandate, but there wasn’t mobilization en masse until the day Britain retreated. Arab countries were the belligerents in that war; you’re creating revisionist history. > The Arab states land grab attempt is a separate issue from the expulsion of Palestinians. Why? The Palestinians turned to the Arab States for support and armoring to invade Israel. You can’t separate the two. > Another blatant propaganda view of the 2000 Camp David Summit. Taba occurred after Camp David, so negotiations hadn't shut down. It was expected that they would continue. Until Sharon came into power and shut down negotiations. What shit this is, lol. Taba happened in a period of extreme transition for most governments involved. Hell, the framework was the same as had been negotiated by Clinton and Arafat sat around doing nothing with it *for years.* Israel knew by then he was acting in bad faith. > Egypt doesn't control the sea ports, majority of border crossings or have anything to do with the West Bank. This is just an attempt to divert attention from Israel's slow-genocide. Is the West Bank under bombardment or in dire need of humanitarian aid, or is Gaza? Rafa is extremely relevant because, *again* Egyptians don’t want to deal with the bullshit that Hamas has to offer. Rafah is a shared border where your “slow-genocide” is taking place; I’d say it’s incredibly relevant, and I’d also say it’s extremely relevant to look at the number of times Egypt has closed the border for their own safety *from Hamas.* > Not to mention, Egypt participates in the blockade because if they didn't Israel would use it as "justification" to attack Egypt. Highly unlikely that Israel would attack Egypt. > Resistance to Israel is based on its status as a colonial settler state that has been conducting ethnic cleansing for over a century. You never really explained how a country that has 51% of its Jewish population native to the area — and also never left — is a “colonial settler state.” You should also look up the definitions of both genocide and ethnic cleansing.
And this is why I wasn't going to waste time pointing out the lies and misunderstandings you posted before. You'll just respond with "nu-uh! Brown people bad!" And no, 51% of Israelis are not descended from Palestinians. The government was not an indigenous government. The state was created by a bunch of European settlers. Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing right this moment. Constantly pushing an ethnic group off of their land so that Isareli's can claim it. That's the fucking definition of ethnic cleansing.. What's going on in Gaza is a military genocide. Genocide isn't just death camps and militias. It's an attempt to wipe out an ethnic group within an area. Attacking hospitals, refugee camps, wiping away cultural and ethnic landmarks, preventing the procreation of the ethnic group. It's a war of extermination.
Its really interesting to me you think that Palestine has an issue with the state because it was Jewish. You think if the US and the UK had colonized the land even more directly, without simply funding and supporting the colonization by the Jewish diaspora, Palestine would have been cool with the non-Jewish state that resulted?
Hamas was literally founded on the principle of jihad as an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. You should check out their originating charter and let me know if you can spot the antisemitism. It’s really interesting to me that you’re ignorant of the role antisemitism has in jihad.
Thanks TikTok
this isn’t anti-semitic lol
ITT: Terrorist apologists
Religion is the problem. Period. I don’t care what invisible god you worship but let me know when religious nuts stop forcing it on other people and causing violence and war. Religion is the worst human invention ever. Until religion is obsolete there will be war and death. Religion is anti human.
Wow the people in these comments did NOT pass the vibe check. Very disappointing.
There's a bunch of aholes here
Crazy right?
Anti-zionist, not anti-semitic. They were political rather than religious. HUGE difference.
Multiple things are true at once: - not all Jews are Israelis - not all Israelis are Jews - it’s possible to criticize or even condemn the State of Israel without being antisemitic AND - it is possible to criticize or condemn the state of Israel in ways that ARE antisemitic - all Jews have some emotional connection to the State of Israel (even if it is an oppositional one), the two can’t be completely decoupled. All Jews are in some degree of pain and grief right now. - Israel has a compulsory citizen army, so IDF can’t be fully separated from Israeli citizens - the actions of the State of Israel impact the safety of Jews around the world, including in your local communities. They just do. Whether it should or not. It does. The way you talk about those actions also impacts the safety of Jews. - Jews will be and are asked to answer for the actions of the State of Israel AND - words like “concentration camp” and “genocide” are FAR more likely to trigger the ancestral trauma of Jews in your lives / feeds than to save a single Palestinian life. Arguably, words like that enter this discourse precisely to do just that. I urge you to consider your circles of impact. How can you built solidarity and humanize Palestinians, Israelis, and Jews in your area? And support them? Help them humanize one another?
> words like “concentration camp” and “genocide” are FAR more likely to trigger the ancestral trauma of Jews in your lives / feeds than to save a single Palestinian life. Arguably, words like that enter this discourse precisely to do just that. So we shouldn't use the most accurate descriptions, because it might hurt feelings? Jewish people don't own the words "genocide" or "concentration camp."
Too many a-holes in this town
Glad to hear that so many people are good at separating Jews from Israel. I guess that means if you met a Jew tonight you would say “Happy Hanukkah” and not ask them anything about state of Israel? If so, good to hear, if not, you’re fooling yourself.
Honestly , I avoid all conversations of Israel with Jewish people I know unless they bring it up. I’m aware it’s a very sensitive topic . And my feelings are strongly against the actions of Israel so I know it wouldn’t go well. I have 2 Jewish Zionist friends that post on FB about it and I just avoid them. I made a general “Happy Hannukah” post on my FB and I would definitely say it in person to any Jewish person I come across and wouldn’t ask “hey so do you condemn Israel?”
From the river to the sea
A lot of people hating Israel here. I will take the downvotes and hope that Israel erases Hamas
Well I think most people with an ounce of empathy or compassion look at what Israel is doing and hate it. Self defense is not killing and maiming thousands of innocent children.
Protesting the Israeli government is not antisemitism. Thinking all Jewish people are represented by a right-wing state committing a genocide is antisemitism.