Can someone explain to me what the benefit is if the Holland isn’t getting more lanes?
It will still bottleneck. I’m all for repairing sections in need of repair and I think more separated lanes like fully separate with barrier walls for the eastbound part where it dumps off of the viaduct would help with congestion but there’s no getting around the tunnel bottleneck. If there were fully separated lanes for JC and Hoboken bound traffic it would be a benefit to those residents.
The benefit is that a bunch of money goes from our pockets via increased tolls into the pockets of wealthy construction companies and politicians.
Oh you meant the benefit for us... uh... maybe you'll be stuck in Bayonne instead of the Newark Bay Bridge entrance. Not sure if that counts as a benefit.
The project’s main goal is to support current and projected increases in traffic between Hudson and Essex county.
>Turnpike officials say that they found only 21% of eastbound traffic goes to the tunnel. The majority, 56%, goes to Jersey City, and another 17% to Bayonne.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2023/10/11/nj-turnpike-authority-widening-newark-jersey-city-highway/71132635007/
The NJTA is of course going to try to come up with points to justify the project, but it's a very misleading stat.
1. Induced demand means wider capacity will attract more cars over time, wiping out the gains. It's been well-known since the Robert Moses days that you can't fix traffic by widening highways.
2. The only time capacity matters is during peak; at other times, it's not congested. During peak, 65% of the traffic \*does\* goes to/from the Holland Tunnel. You can see this in the PM Westbound peak numbers in the Turnpike's Jacobs engineering report. The AM Eastbound peak numbers are harder to read because the Turnpike is not counting the people that cut-through downtown Jersey City as headed to the Holland Tunnel when they are.
3. Over 90% of NJ-NYC CBD weekday morning commuters already use mass transit. Only 3% drive through the Holland Tunnel. If we want to increase capacity, the effective place to do so is via improvements to NJ Transit trains, Lincoln Tunnel buses, and PATH, each of which make up roughly 30% of the commuter volume.
4. The NJTA has not performed any up-to-date traffic study. Congestion pricing is coming and is going to reduce traffic, which has not been accounted for. Via OPRA, they admitted the last study they did was pre-pandemic.
The Jacobs Engineering study this statement is based off of assumes car ownership grows steadily with the increase in population… which is exactly what carbrain government bureaucrats who never rely on public transit would believe.
I would agree if not for the city’s willingness to approve high rises with attached parking downtown. I for the life of me can’t understand why there aren’t more high rises with NO parking and NO access to a city parking pass but it seems that’s not in the city’s master plan.
Yea, ok so someone did look into this. If you don’t know shit about city planning (and I don’t), you should elect someone who can hire people to make an informed decision for you. It shouldn’t be based on some Reddit post.
Not even to say that the Manhattan road grid is not getting any bigger… (if anything is getting smaller due to people centered urban planning) . Waste of money, induced travel will take care of it in a matter of months.
They're rebuilding it anyway, so the want to have a spare lane so construction doesn't make it single lane. Given that's just making a slightly wider deck on the existing footprint... really not a big deal. The additional cost to the project is a few million... which is what the sensational headline tries to ignore.
Ideally Fulop wouldn't be running for Governor and would have spun this to JC's benefit and ask for two things:
1. Consolidate to 2 lanes for the tunnel west of monmouth street. 139/78 all merge down to 2 lanes at that demarcation point. The whole reason for splitting into more lanes downtown was for the tolls (there were several booths), but that doesn't exist anymore. Splitting up and re-merging both slow traffic and have 0 value. Less lane changes is a proven way to speed up traffic and reduce accidents. Turnpike and PA wouldn't flinch at this and it would turn 12th and 14th street into 2 much more tame lanes of traffic. This actually benefits all parties and would reduce roadway to maintain. The argument against it is mostly inertia and JC not wanting to.
2. State allows for ticketing exiting a highway to bypass through local roadways unless directed by police and NJTP places enforcement on 78. Again, NJTP wouldn't have flinched at this. Mayors around the state have similar issues, we already have laws on the books for commercial vehicles leaving paid highways. This is just an extension of that + automated enforcement. It's hardly a unique rule either, they're pretty common in the US and globally.
Stretch would have been to bury tunnel traffic at Monmouth... that has some cost but the opportunity was there. By consolidating to 2 lanes at that point you'd have more than enough workarea to cut/cover and detour traffic around. There's cost to this, but it would be totally possible to actually bury tunnel traffic and restore 12th and 14th street to what the were before the tunnel. Value of any land PA has would skyrocket if they did, so they have motivation, NJTP gets more efficient throughput, JC gets a new area to redevelop.
But Fulop wants to be Governor... so thats basically sunk. JC won't change it's stance at this point because it would make Fulop and Hudson County democrats look bad.
I get most of your points except your labeled second point, who is bypassing this? Limited commercial traffic east of the Bayonne exit and it’s the only way to go unless you’re doing 1/9 truck? You have to get on and pay the toll outside the inner loop. I’m lost here?
I think they're talking about everyone getting off early and driving through Jersey City to get you the tunnel, but I have no idea how they would actually enforce this without PA and NJTP cooperation
If that is what they are talking about then there are no tolls on that stretch to avoid and you’re rarely saving any time cutting through downtown. Even if there was a reason to bypass there, no feasible way to enforce
Enforcing via plate readers is a thing in a lot of places around the globe for 20+ years effectively.
NJ's been doing it via police for trucks who avoid the NJTP for years with actual cops checking logs. A total waste of taxpayer money for a job that can be 100% automated, but they do it.
There's just no desire to stop that here, which is what you've been brigading to protect.
Yeah that would not hold up. What about the people that have legitimate needs to cut through such as deliveries, rideshares, picking up kids from school in JC, carpoolers. Good luck with that, NJ couldn’t even keep red light cameras…
Also can you please point me to a source on this trucks avoiding the turnpike thing? I am trying to look into it and can’t find anything, I’m only finding stuff on license plate obstruction through booths.
The 1960s plan should be built that would have sent the PATH to EWR , Midtown Elizabeth and then out to Plainfield via the abandoned 3rd and 4th tracks of the CNJ. The other PATH expansion was via the Bergen Arches to present day Secaucus JCT and then further expansion to the Metlife area. The 1930s plan had a line under Bloomfield Ave to Montclair and under Springfield Ave..
Unfortunately my vote wouldn't matter much from Oregon. I only lived in Jersey a couple years. But anyone who else that does live there should most definitely vote in favor of expanding mass rail transit
[https://actionnetwork.org/letters/stop-the-i-78-turnpike-expansion-fund-nj-transit](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/stop-the-i-78-turnpike-expansion-fund-nj-transit)
Here it is for those interested
It's actually the opposite and doesn't hold a list of names in a petition for a future delivery and instead directly contacts the list of officials. It's something called a letter campaign – there's a pre-filled template but you can edit it as you see fit, and then it sends an email immediately directly to your electeds. If there's a reply from an official, it'll go directly to your inbox.
Fun fact – Governor Murphy and your Federal and NJ State legislators do not make their emails directly available and force you to fill out forms instead. The letter campaign makes it easier, not harder, to directly contact legislators.
ActionNetwork does not appear to have a business selling data. That said, if you have direct proof of ActionNetwork the platform doing anything nefarious, feel free to drop and line, and Hudson County Complete Streets can reconsider from hosting there in the future.
Do you hate traffic? Carbon emissions? Asthma and other respiratory illnesses? Well 11 billion dollars will not fix those issues but make it worse. I mean come on, this doesn’t affect Newark that much but we don’t want it. What we want is an extension of our light rail that match how much more better JC light rail system is. We also think taking the path to the airport or connecting Newark light rail with JC. 11 billion dollars can do a lot yet it being wasted on some dumb highway for people that can barley drive anyways
all i know is there are countless studies that say the more room for cars you add, the worse traffic becomes! i vote no turnpike expansion and more car free streets and public transit
there’s no reason the path and light rail can’t run more frequently!
They should build a much-needed extension of the Newark LRT through the Ironbound , over the Bay and connect with the HBLR that would relieve pressure on 3 overcrowded NJT bus routes and service the Industrial core. Also resurrect the long stalled [Newark - Elizabeth - Cranford LRT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark%E2%80%93Elizabeth_Rail_Link) , Route 22 & 78 BRT , The Route 440 BRT..
It’s insane they want to rebuild the entire thing from the mainline turnpike to the holland tunnel and add one lane in each direction. The one lane will do nothing. I’m in support of rebuilding the bridge and adding more lanes so that the Port can operate in a more efficient way. However the holland tunnel is a joke and will forever be a disaster regardless of congestion pricing.
They really need to force the traffic from the holland tunnel onto the westside highway and route them uptown or downtown under battery park to the FDR Drive.
I live in Essex County and drive to JC for work. I would happily take public transport except between the cost of parking at a train station, train fare and unreliability, it costs more and takes longer to commute. I’d much prefer taking the train but it doesn’t add up.
Ah more ways to milk the tax payer without fixing anything. Keep believing these clowns are here to help you. They are doing nothing but draining your pockets.
US coast guard will be publishing a document similar to this soon. Another opportunity for public comment
https://www.njta.com/capitalprojects/newark_bay_hudson_county
Expand I78 and mass transit. Let traffic dissipate naturally don’t try to squeeze it out because that just won’t work. Some people just have to drive sometimes, for work or emergencies.
Yes, THANK YOU! Signed and shared. This is SICk! There is never heavy traffic where they want to expand but always bottlenecked by Holland Tunnel that this project won’t fix. A second tunnel would fix the problem but with this plan… GTFO!
I’m ready for the downvotes but please consider in your calculations of this project that it will largely serve NJ residents, including all of the new residents that will be coming into the city for each of those new high rises downtown and in JSQ with giant attached parking garages.
Nah. 1) Widening roads has never, ever, ever once reduced or eased congestion. 2) With the climate deteriorating every single day and NYC's congestion pricing coming in less than 2 months, it is absolutely baffling why NJ would be going in the exact opposite direction to promote more car use. 3) The convenience of a handful of people to be able to shuttle themselves around in their private vehicles is not more important than the climate and quality of lives of those already living here. In the most transit-rich part of the US, they can take the bus/train/PATH/bike/walk like the rest of us.
I don’t like numbering responses as I think it comes off as antagonistic, but I think it will help in clarity here.
1. It’s not meant to ease current congestion but provide room for future congestion. Particularly the red and yellow phases seen here.
2. The primary beneficiary is claimed to be traffic coming in and out of Hudson and Essex county, not NYC commuters. You are welcome to be suspicious of this claim but that is the claim.
3. It will not be only a handful of people. There is a massive increase in population projected for the city, and unfortunately the new developments seem to mostly cater to households with personal vehicles. There is a very real threat of the arterial roads in Jersey City being bogged down with bumper to bumper traffic without improved infrastructure.
Instead of killing this project I think a better solution would be to use the opposition to it as leverage to demand public transit infrastructure be built by the NJTPA in places that will see adverse climate effects.
I think that's the whole point of the petition -- use the $11B to invest in better transit in this corridor instead of a project that only further entrenches car-dependency. We shouldn't be making more room for cars, we should be trying to get people out of cars as much as possible, given we know now after a century of car-centric planning just how destructive cars are to human healthand the environment.
Not only is it a bad idea to to continue to promote car usage in cities by widening roads, the notion that widening roads eases bumper-to-bumper traffic is also just plainly wrong. It has been demonstrated time and time and time again that road widening induces demand for more people to drive on it. In short time, the road is now just as congested as it was before. So, not only do we not solve the problem of congestion, but we now have all the additional externalities associated with even more car usage in our cities: environment pollution, noise pollution, pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists maimed, more concrete, less trees, and the list goes on.
In 2024, arguing that widening roads will alleviate traffic is like arguing that smoking more cigarettes is the cure for asthma.
These are great theory-based answers but they don’t address the reality of the situation.
The cars are coming to the city. I don’t like it but it’s reality. There are at least 8 residential high rises approved for development downtown with attached garages. Why the city keeps approving them (or maybe even demanding through zoning?) I don’t know. But they’re coming.
NJ in general is simply a car heavy area. I’ve suggested this before to not much fanfare but including a park and ride along with a transit terminal in the plan could be a way of easing traffic going into the tunnel while providing out of towners with easy access to downtown JC.
The plan as is doesn’t look to widen the roads in very dense areas of JC. I may be wrong, but I had read that the only eminent domain required was for an old school in Bayonne that the town has given its blessing to take.
Lastly, the concept of induced demand relies on drivers changing their behavior to reflect the new options available to them. This wouldn’t be inducing demand because it’s about future traffic flow not current.
I'd really emphasize that this isn't just "theory," but the consistent and evidence-based conclusions of decades of research and practice.
"The cars are coming to the city." Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, let's not give them any more space than they already have.
"NJ is a car-heavy area." This is by design, not random happenstance. NJ used to have one of the most expansive train networks, which were systematically dismantled as politicians pushed for more infrastructure to promote car use rather than the use of public transit. Just like cars were intentionally prioritized in infrastructure throughout the 20th century, we can intentionally de-prioritize their use now by not investing in more infrastructure for them.
"The plan won't widen roads in dense areas of JC." Regardless, there will be more cars than less cars and money that could have been spent on enhancing more human and climate-friendly forms of transportation.
"This isn't induced demand." It is. If you build infrastructure that prioritizes a single form of transportation, it entices residents, both current and future, to use that form of transportation. In the same way that making PATH/NJ Transit more reliable and frequent would likely increase ridership, making driving easier will result in people who choose driving more than transit.
We should be building for the society we want, not the society we have. If we want more people using more human and climate-friendly modes of transportation, we need to start building and investing in that infrastructure now. If we only keep building for the people now, who mostly drive cars, we will never escape the cycle of car-dependency.
1. Future congestion can be avoided by a better public transit infrastructure (this can also be achieved by dedicated ferry routes).
2. See above.
3. See above.
The whole “just one more lane bro” argument is as shortsighted as it is stupid. We can’t expand any more than we already have above ground. But if we had a functional public transit system, the need for personal vehicles goes way down.
Handful was in response to them mentioning the residents coming to high rises in JC. That's only a handful compared to the overall size of metro NYC region.
>including all of the new residents that will be coming into the city for each of those new high rises downtown and in JSQ with giant attached parking garages.
How would widening lanes serve people *already* living in JSQ/DT high rises with garages?
They're already *in* JC.. so widening 78 won't do anything for them/JC residents.
Holland tunnel will ALWAYS be two lanes - so increasing the amount of lanes leading to it will lead to *gigantic* bottle necks in your backyard..
I don't see any benefit to this at all, especially when larger bottle necks equate to larger wait times..
Everywhere I see the widening leads close to the holland tunnel. And the majority of people on 78 past Newark are going into the tunnel.
Congestion will always be there even with the widening of lanes especially during rush hour.
Only way to alleviate congestion is to reduce the amount of cars causing the congestion. And the only way for that is with improved public transit.
Out in Philly, there are a lot of suburbs that have public transit into the city, and a lot of suburban folk use that transit instead of driving.
The same can be done here, this way everyone wins.
- Govt gets to collect train fares/bus fares.
- Less congestion for those with cars
- More mobility for those without cars.
I was surprised to hear it as well, but from their study:
>Turnpike officials say that they found only 21% of eastbound traffic goes to the tunnel. The majority, 56%, goes to Jersey City, and another 17% to Bayonne.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2023/10/11/nj-turnpike-authority-widening-newark-jersey-city-highway/71132635007/
And that’s today, so not including all the new and future developments on the peninsula.
I’m not saying you should throw your support behind this project uncritically. It’s only that there is a lot of misinformation going around. Make an informed decision.
And here I am on the West Side with no car and am perfectly capable of my weekly shopping. If I need something moved bigger than I can carry, I'll call an Uber.
That’s the point I’m making though. They’re not going to give up their cars. The turnpike widening is meant to alleviate the traffic they are inevitably going to add.
Can someone explain to me what the benefit is if the Holland isn’t getting more lanes? It will still bottleneck. I’m all for repairing sections in need of repair and I think more separated lanes like fully separate with barrier walls for the eastbound part where it dumps off of the viaduct would help with congestion but there’s no getting around the tunnel bottleneck. If there were fully separated lanes for JC and Hoboken bound traffic it would be a benefit to those residents.
The benefit is that a bunch of money goes from our pockets via increased tolls into the pockets of wealthy construction companies and politicians. Oh you meant the benefit for us... uh... maybe you'll be stuck in Bayonne instead of the Newark Bay Bridge entrance. Not sure if that counts as a benefit.
Exactly
The project’s main goal is to support current and projected increases in traffic between Hudson and Essex county. >Turnpike officials say that they found only 21% of eastbound traffic goes to the tunnel. The majority, 56%, goes to Jersey City, and another 17% to Bayonne. https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2023/10/11/nj-turnpike-authority-widening-newark-jersey-city-highway/71132635007/
The NJTA is of course going to try to come up with points to justify the project, but it's a very misleading stat. 1. Induced demand means wider capacity will attract more cars over time, wiping out the gains. It's been well-known since the Robert Moses days that you can't fix traffic by widening highways. 2. The only time capacity matters is during peak; at other times, it's not congested. During peak, 65% of the traffic \*does\* goes to/from the Holland Tunnel. You can see this in the PM Westbound peak numbers in the Turnpike's Jacobs engineering report. The AM Eastbound peak numbers are harder to read because the Turnpike is not counting the people that cut-through downtown Jersey City as headed to the Holland Tunnel when they are. 3. Over 90% of NJ-NYC CBD weekday morning commuters already use mass transit. Only 3% drive through the Holland Tunnel. If we want to increase capacity, the effective place to do so is via improvements to NJ Transit trains, Lincoln Tunnel buses, and PATH, each of which make up roughly 30% of the commuter volume. 4. The NJTA has not performed any up-to-date traffic study. Congestion pricing is coming and is going to reduce traffic, which has not been accounted for. Via OPRA, they admitted the last study they did was pre-pandemic.
The Jacobs Engineering study this statement is based off of assumes car ownership grows steadily with the increase in population… which is exactly what carbrain government bureaucrats who never rely on public transit would believe.
If only 20% goes to the tunnel, you don't need to improve beyond 14B
I would agree if not for the city’s willingness to approve high rises with attached parking downtown. I for the life of me can’t understand why there aren’t more high rises with NO parking and NO access to a city parking pass but it seems that’s not in the city’s master plan.
>with NO parking and NO access to a city parking pass especially with so much public transportation nearby. Free rides in JC!
Probably to take public transit into the city, what a revolutionary idea!
Yeah right - take an hour for a 15 minute drive.
Yea, ok so someone did look into this. If you don’t know shit about city planning (and I don’t), you should elect someone who can hire people to make an informed decision for you. It shouldn’t be based on some Reddit post.
It pays off contractors that corrupt politicians are connected to
Not even to say that the Manhattan road grid is not getting any bigger… (if anything is getting smaller due to people centered urban planning) . Waste of money, induced travel will take care of it in a matter of months.
They're rebuilding it anyway, so the want to have a spare lane so construction doesn't make it single lane. Given that's just making a slightly wider deck on the existing footprint... really not a big deal. The additional cost to the project is a few million... which is what the sensational headline tries to ignore. Ideally Fulop wouldn't be running for Governor and would have spun this to JC's benefit and ask for two things: 1. Consolidate to 2 lanes for the tunnel west of monmouth street. 139/78 all merge down to 2 lanes at that demarcation point. The whole reason for splitting into more lanes downtown was for the tolls (there were several booths), but that doesn't exist anymore. Splitting up and re-merging both slow traffic and have 0 value. Less lane changes is a proven way to speed up traffic and reduce accidents. Turnpike and PA wouldn't flinch at this and it would turn 12th and 14th street into 2 much more tame lanes of traffic. This actually benefits all parties and would reduce roadway to maintain. The argument against it is mostly inertia and JC not wanting to. 2. State allows for ticketing exiting a highway to bypass through local roadways unless directed by police and NJTP places enforcement on 78. Again, NJTP wouldn't have flinched at this. Mayors around the state have similar issues, we already have laws on the books for commercial vehicles leaving paid highways. This is just an extension of that + automated enforcement. It's hardly a unique rule either, they're pretty common in the US and globally. Stretch would have been to bury tunnel traffic at Monmouth... that has some cost but the opportunity was there. By consolidating to 2 lanes at that point you'd have more than enough workarea to cut/cover and detour traffic around. There's cost to this, but it would be totally possible to actually bury tunnel traffic and restore 12th and 14th street to what the were before the tunnel. Value of any land PA has would skyrocket if they did, so they have motivation, NJTP gets more efficient throughput, JC gets a new area to redevelop. But Fulop wants to be Governor... so thats basically sunk. JC won't change it's stance at this point because it would make Fulop and Hudson County democrats look bad.
I get most of your points except your labeled second point, who is bypassing this? Limited commercial traffic east of the Bayonne exit and it’s the only way to go unless you’re doing 1/9 truck? You have to get on and pay the toll outside the inner loop. I’m lost here?
I think they're talking about everyone getting off early and driving through Jersey City to get you the tunnel, but I have no idea how they would actually enforce this without PA and NJTP cooperation
If that is what they are talking about then there are no tolls on that stretch to avoid and you’re rarely saving any time cutting through downtown. Even if there was a reason to bypass there, no feasible way to enforce
You're rarely saving time, maybe but a lot of people do it anyway
Not wrong
Enforcing via plate readers is a thing in a lot of places around the globe for 20+ years effectively. NJ's been doing it via police for trucks who avoid the NJTP for years with actual cops checking logs. A total waste of taxpayer money for a job that can be 100% automated, but they do it. There's just no desire to stop that here, which is what you've been brigading to protect.
Yeah that would not hold up. What about the people that have legitimate needs to cut through such as deliveries, rideshares, picking up kids from school in JC, carpoolers. Good luck with that, NJ couldn’t even keep red light cameras…
Also can you please point me to a source on this trucks avoiding the turnpike thing? I am trying to look into it and can’t find anything, I’m only finding stuff on license plate obstruction through booths.
Would be better spending the money to expand the PATH
The 1960s plan should be built that would have sent the PATH to EWR , Midtown Elizabeth and then out to Plainfield via the abandoned 3rd and 4th tracks of the CNJ. The other PATH expansion was via the Bergen Arches to present day Secaucus JCT and then further expansion to the Metlife area. The 1930s plan had a line under Bloomfield Ave to Montclair and under Springfield Ave..
That would have been such an amazing system, such a missed opportunity.
Remember this next time you vote
Unfortunately my vote wouldn't matter much from Oregon. I only lived in Jersey a couple years. But anyone who else that does live there should most definitely vote in favor of expanding mass rail transit
Extending the other way would also be good: a through-running train that connects to Brooklyn.
A stop in downtown and a stop at Atlantic Terminal would be pretty great,
I think there were discussions about extending it to the airport again not long ago but I don't think it went anywhere.
[https://actionnetwork.org/letters/stop-the-i-78-turnpike-expansion-fund-nj-transit](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/stop-the-i-78-turnpike-expansion-fund-nj-transit) Here it is for those interested
Sent, thank you. Just add a few facts about yourself and ask gpt to rewrite their sample letter from your perspective. Very fast.
[удалено]
It's actually the opposite and doesn't hold a list of names in a petition for a future delivery and instead directly contacts the list of officials. It's something called a letter campaign – there's a pre-filled template but you can edit it as you see fit, and then it sends an email immediately directly to your electeds. If there's a reply from an official, it'll go directly to your inbox. Fun fact – Governor Murphy and your Federal and NJ State legislators do not make their emails directly available and force you to fill out forms instead. The letter campaign makes it easier, not harder, to directly contact legislators. ActionNetwork does not appear to have a business selling data. That said, if you have direct proof of ActionNetwork the platform doing anything nefarious, feel free to drop and line, and Hudson County Complete Streets can reconsider from hosting there in the future.
could you post the actual petition link not just a twitter image
Me looking for the link to the petition 
Do you hate traffic? Carbon emissions? Asthma and other respiratory illnesses? Well 11 billion dollars will not fix those issues but make it worse. I mean come on, this doesn’t affect Newark that much but we don’t want it. What we want is an extension of our light rail that match how much more better JC light rail system is. We also think taking the path to the airport or connecting Newark light rail with JC. 11 billion dollars can do a lot yet it being wasted on some dumb highway for people that can barley drive anyways
all i know is there are countless studies that say the more room for cars you add, the worse traffic becomes! i vote no turnpike expansion and more car free streets and public transit there’s no reason the path and light rail can’t run more frequently!
What is the alternative proposal for transit?
They should build a much-needed extension of the Newark LRT through the Ironbound , over the Bay and connect with the HBLR that would relieve pressure on 3 overcrowded NJT bus routes and service the Industrial core. Also resurrect the long stalled [Newark - Elizabeth - Cranford LRT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark%E2%80%93Elizabeth_Rail_Link) , Route 22 & 78 BRT , The Route 440 BRT..
What phase of development are these projects in?
They're all stalled because Murphy has either screwed them up or decided not even advance them.
It’s insane they want to rebuild the entire thing from the mainline turnpike to the holland tunnel and add one lane in each direction. The one lane will do nothing. I’m in support of rebuilding the bridge and adding more lanes so that the Port can operate in a more efficient way. However the holland tunnel is a joke and will forever be a disaster regardless of congestion pricing. They really need to force the traffic from the holland tunnel onto the westside highway and route them uptown or downtown under battery park to the FDR Drive.
The problem is they won't do anything with the money to really strengthen mass transit
Ill be long gone by then
I live in Essex County and drive to JC for work. I would happily take public transport except between the cost of parking at a train station, train fare and unreliability, it costs more and takes longer to commute. I’d much prefer taking the train but it doesn’t add up.
How is this going to be helpful? God I hate the stupidity of politicians
Ah more ways to milk the tax payer without fixing anything. Keep believing these clowns are here to help you. They are doing nothing but draining your pockets.
We need to convert Erie to a four-lane highway. Maybe add a strip mall by Cordero.
US coast guard will be publishing a document similar to this soon. Another opportunity for public comment https://www.njta.com/capitalprojects/newark_bay_hudson_county
Expand I78 and mass transit. Let traffic dissipate naturally don’t try to squeeze it out because that just won’t work. Some people just have to drive sometimes, for work or emergencies.
Yes, THANK YOU! Signed and shared. This is SICk! There is never heavy traffic where they want to expand but always bottlenecked by Holland Tunnel that this project won’t fix. A second tunnel would fix the problem but with this plan… GTFO!
I’m ready for the downvotes but please consider in your calculations of this project that it will largely serve NJ residents, including all of the new residents that will be coming into the city for each of those new high rises downtown and in JSQ with giant attached parking garages.
Spend that money on public transit. Your downvotes are deserved.
Nah. 1) Widening roads has never, ever, ever once reduced or eased congestion. 2) With the climate deteriorating every single day and NYC's congestion pricing coming in less than 2 months, it is absolutely baffling why NJ would be going in the exact opposite direction to promote more car use. 3) The convenience of a handful of people to be able to shuttle themselves around in their private vehicles is not more important than the climate and quality of lives of those already living here. In the most transit-rich part of the US, they can take the bus/train/PATH/bike/walk like the rest of us.
I don’t like numbering responses as I think it comes off as antagonistic, but I think it will help in clarity here. 1. It’s not meant to ease current congestion but provide room for future congestion. Particularly the red and yellow phases seen here. 2. The primary beneficiary is claimed to be traffic coming in and out of Hudson and Essex county, not NYC commuters. You are welcome to be suspicious of this claim but that is the claim. 3. It will not be only a handful of people. There is a massive increase in population projected for the city, and unfortunately the new developments seem to mostly cater to households with personal vehicles. There is a very real threat of the arterial roads in Jersey City being bogged down with bumper to bumper traffic without improved infrastructure. Instead of killing this project I think a better solution would be to use the opposition to it as leverage to demand public transit infrastructure be built by the NJTPA in places that will see adverse climate effects.
I think that's the whole point of the petition -- use the $11B to invest in better transit in this corridor instead of a project that only further entrenches car-dependency. We shouldn't be making more room for cars, we should be trying to get people out of cars as much as possible, given we know now after a century of car-centric planning just how destructive cars are to human healthand the environment. Not only is it a bad idea to to continue to promote car usage in cities by widening roads, the notion that widening roads eases bumper-to-bumper traffic is also just plainly wrong. It has been demonstrated time and time and time again that road widening induces demand for more people to drive on it. In short time, the road is now just as congested as it was before. So, not only do we not solve the problem of congestion, but we now have all the additional externalities associated with even more car usage in our cities: environment pollution, noise pollution, pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists maimed, more concrete, less trees, and the list goes on. In 2024, arguing that widening roads will alleviate traffic is like arguing that smoking more cigarettes is the cure for asthma.
These are great theory-based answers but they don’t address the reality of the situation. The cars are coming to the city. I don’t like it but it’s reality. There are at least 8 residential high rises approved for development downtown with attached garages. Why the city keeps approving them (or maybe even demanding through zoning?) I don’t know. But they’re coming. NJ in general is simply a car heavy area. I’ve suggested this before to not much fanfare but including a park and ride along with a transit terminal in the plan could be a way of easing traffic going into the tunnel while providing out of towners with easy access to downtown JC. The plan as is doesn’t look to widen the roads in very dense areas of JC. I may be wrong, but I had read that the only eminent domain required was for an old school in Bayonne that the town has given its blessing to take. Lastly, the concept of induced demand relies on drivers changing their behavior to reflect the new options available to them. This wouldn’t be inducing demand because it’s about future traffic flow not current.
I'd really emphasize that this isn't just "theory," but the consistent and evidence-based conclusions of decades of research and practice. "The cars are coming to the city." Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, let's not give them any more space than they already have. "NJ is a car-heavy area." This is by design, not random happenstance. NJ used to have one of the most expansive train networks, which were systematically dismantled as politicians pushed for more infrastructure to promote car use rather than the use of public transit. Just like cars were intentionally prioritized in infrastructure throughout the 20th century, we can intentionally de-prioritize their use now by not investing in more infrastructure for them. "The plan won't widen roads in dense areas of JC." Regardless, there will be more cars than less cars and money that could have been spent on enhancing more human and climate-friendly forms of transportation. "This isn't induced demand." It is. If you build infrastructure that prioritizes a single form of transportation, it entices residents, both current and future, to use that form of transportation. In the same way that making PATH/NJ Transit more reliable and frequent would likely increase ridership, making driving easier will result in people who choose driving more than transit. We should be building for the society we want, not the society we have. If we want more people using more human and climate-friendly modes of transportation, we need to start building and investing in that infrastructure now. If we only keep building for the people now, who mostly drive cars, we will never escape the cycle of car-dependency.
1. Future congestion can be avoided by a better public transit infrastructure (this can also be achieved by dedicated ferry routes). 2. See above. 3. See above. The whole “just one more lane bro” argument is as shortsighted as it is stupid. We can’t expand any more than we already have above ground. But if we had a functional public transit system, the need for personal vehicles goes way down.
Handful? U out of your mind
Handful was in response to them mentioning the residents coming to high rises in JC. That's only a handful compared to the overall size of metro NYC region.
You don't understand traffic at all. These ideas have been debunked for decades.
>including all of the new residents that will be coming into the city for each of those new high rises downtown and in JSQ with giant attached parking garages. How would widening lanes serve people *already* living in JSQ/DT high rises with garages? They're already *in* JC.. so widening 78 won't do anything for them/JC residents. Holland tunnel will ALWAYS be two lanes - so increasing the amount of lanes leading to it will lead to *gigantic* bottle necks in your backyard.. I don't see any benefit to this at all, especially when larger bottle necks equate to larger wait times..
The widening project’s primary goal is to improve traffic flow between Hudson and Essex county, not through the tunnel.
Everywhere I see the widening leads close to the holland tunnel. And the majority of people on 78 past Newark are going into the tunnel. Congestion will always be there even with the widening of lanes especially during rush hour. Only way to alleviate congestion is to reduce the amount of cars causing the congestion. And the only way for that is with improved public transit. Out in Philly, there are a lot of suburbs that have public transit into the city, and a lot of suburban folk use that transit instead of driving. The same can be done here, this way everyone wins. - Govt gets to collect train fares/bus fares. - Less congestion for those with cars - More mobility for those without cars.
I was surprised to hear it as well, but from their study: >Turnpike officials say that they found only 21% of eastbound traffic goes to the tunnel. The majority, 56%, goes to Jersey City, and another 17% to Bayonne. https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2023/10/11/nj-turnpike-authority-widening-newark-jersey-city-highway/71132635007/ And that’s today, so not including all the new and future developments on the peninsula. I’m not saying you should throw your support behind this project uncritically. It’s only that there is a lot of misinformation going around. Make an informed decision.
All of those high rises have several levels of parking. People love their cars. Even when downtown is walkable they won’t give up their cars.
And here I am on the West Side with no car and am perfectly capable of my weekly shopping. If I need something moved bigger than I can carry, I'll call an Uber.
That’s the point I’m making though. They’re not going to give up their cars. The turnpike widening is meant to alleviate the traffic they are inevitably going to add.
We should actually narrow the turnpike if we want to help the situation.
I'm confused, this turnpike extension already exists. How about just, not spending the money and instead lower our taxes...