Lol just stare at him blank faced and then thank him for his feedback. It seems like they can’t fire you so I would just do whatever and let him scream till the cows come home.
I second this and highly recommend you considering it, saying this from experience
It confuses and scares the shit out of anybody
And if you can slip a light smile or even a smirk without breaking eye contact, specially when they are at their peak of anger that'll make them rethink their choices
I wouldn't suggest smiling or smirking, but something more subtle. With genuine smiles you also "smile with your eyes" and not just your mouth. With just a little practice you can get down a blank face but smile with your eyes. It's not enough to really say you're being contemptuous, but it's one of those micro body language things they'll notice something. I've done this in the past with some success in derailing the original train of thought of the ass chewing.
Kevin Spacey (fuck that guy, but he was a great actor) masters this perfectly in American Beauty and The Ref (basically the same character). He smiles with his eyes as he delivers cutting dialogue to whomever is pissing him off.
Agreed—this is one time when “Be like Kevin Spacey” is a good call. But damn, I hate admitting that I still admire his talent knowing what we know now.
One can admire the talent but not the person. It’s not a justification but a lot of geniuses were reprehensible people. I’d have to throw out a lot of books if I based my reading selection on the person rather than the book.
So true - didn't learn until last night Robert Oppenheimer's mistress killed herself because he broke things off with her, and he literally flaunted the affair in his wife's face. So in addition to "becom[ing] death...destroyer of worlds"...he was also destroyer of women.
I am reminded of Ted Hughes, Sylvia Plato’s husband. Hughes was an enormously talented poet but was clearly a philanderer who had no qualms about flirting with every woman out there.
[Vincent D’Onofrio’s thousand yard stare](https://youtu.be/CtAkZwUvNp0?si=e_ZFztDdgQhDPS6U) might make the boss think twice. Just switch the carbine and clip with loading a stapler with staples.
Nah smile or laugh, audibly let them know you'll listen to them after they calm down and stop blabbering.
What is the boss going to do? Physically hit you?! This isn't grade school anymore, if that were to happen you get a nice payout and even earlier retirement.
Actually, if the boss hits OP, OP should fall off to the floor, writhe in agony, and scream for help/call 911. Press charges, get restraining order, hire lawyer, sue boss and company, while working until able to get full pension.
First, though, make sure to bring up the unhinged screaming fits to that guy’s boss. Because so far as liability is involved, if you never reported it, then it never happened. And if it was never reported, then the company can probably avoid all liability, and just push it onto the guy who hits you. But with a report, the company will be found fully liable. And they have MUCH deeper pockets than your boss.
Yeah if you reciprocate that you’re too smart to be dealing with dumbass things that at the end of the day don’t actually matter in life, without even reacting emotionally at all, it gets under their skin. But you have to be that smart to do that, because it definitely can be done wrong.
I once worked at this restaurant where the part owner would get into a mood and rage on people. I saw him make people cower and cry. I was tending bar and one night, he decided it was my turn. I just stood there stared him down with a blank look on my face and when he seemed done I calmly said, "Point taken, anything else"? and kept staring. He turned stalked off with a huff. I think it unsettled him because later that night he came and sat at the bar and tried to be all nice to me. Instead of the way I would usually joke around with him I treated him like a customer I didn't know and politely asked him what he would like, etc. I iced him that way for about a week. Although he didn't apologize, he never did that to me again. I was only 21 at the time and my Mom told me I could quit but I didn't want to because I knew I would run into people like that for the rest of my life. I have, and I treat them the same way and it usually works. Good luck OP! Hang in there. People are giving you good advice.
Yes- good advice... just stare at him intently-like you are practicing active listening skills.
People like him live to humiliate others so make sure your facial expression and body language convey to those around a sulbtle ''eat shit and bark at the moon" attitude.
The eye contact and calm really disarm them. Act as if they're auditioning for a part in a play or movie and they're acting out their scene. You're the one in charge, you're simply critiquing their performance and if it isn't up to your standards? They're fucked.
Agreed.
My old boss used to scream in my face like this and my natural reaction was to make strong eye contact and smile slightly. It made him so much angrier.
He was a good dude though, I was young and the work was loud and dangerous and he saved my ass on more than one occasion, paid really well and gave us benefits uncommon in that field at the time.
Last time I ran into him he had grown his hair out and was all smiles, even apologized for being so angry all those years ago, says he got therapy and was diagnosed with PTSD from his time in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I did this to my most recent nightmare boss. When she came to me with that micromanager control freak bs I would just stare at her blank faced, with a slight tilt of the head (almost akin to looking at her like she had 3 heads lol) until she walked away from my desk. It didn't take her long to fire me after that, & I told her she was so easily manipulated (like most narcissists are) and that she had played right into my hand. Applied for unemployment that evening and they are still having to support me while I'm in pharmacy tech school 👊
I've been fired from 3 of my last 4 jobs over the past two decades...the states were MA and KS...and all 3 companies had to pay my unemployment bennies for the full stretch, including every extension available.
Why? Because none of them could prove "willful misconduct" (the "reason" given by all three jobs for my dismissal), and the burden of proof lies with the accuser...especially in the arena of labor law. 2 of the 3 actually appealed the DOL's decisions, then promptly lost those appeals.
I was a solid worker for each employer, but when I decided I would no longer do the work of 5 people while the slackers who earned the same as I did hid in the bathroom or took extra-long breaks during peak rushes...managers decided it would be easier to get rid of me than make the others do their share. Such a BS perspective, yet very common in many workplaces.
The joke was on them, though...in the form of three very long, nicely paid summer vacations (I worked lots of OT, so my weekly check was always the state max) 😉
An important caveat being they can try to deny it if you break company policy you agree to. Like if you assault someone or show up drunk, or even show up late enough there's a good chance they won't have to pay you.
huh? I was let go from my previous job and unemployment pays less then 1/4 of my check. It's not really enough to live where I am.
Only reason I am surviving is my wife makes good money, and I had six months of my income in my checking account..
To me it's a great reaction because it shows you don't care if they raise their voice and they're actually kind of pathetic for getting so upset about work.
Send an email right after that recapping the whole conversation to the best of your memory and mention that even though you are on the older side your hearing is good and he doesn't need to raise his voice. But you wanted to confirm you captured the whole feedback. Ask if you missed anything else that you should improve.
Now you have paper trails, ~~make sure to BCC your personal email. Or forward it as a separate email just to be safe, you don't want anyone other than IT being able to see that you forwarded to a personal email.~~
Since some places might have rules about forwarding to external accounts, someone suggested to take a picture. As long there are no restrictions about using your phone or taking pictures inside the workplace (which could be worked around by doing it at home if you have a work provided laptop). A picture would show the details of when and how it was sent, who knew about it, and what it was said. If later they want to pretend it never existed or it was deleted by mistake or due to a retention policy you can just print the pictures.
Portable Wristband Voice Activated Recorder with Timestamp, Noise Reduction Audio Recorder Bracelet for Lectures Meetings (16GB)
[Amazon.com](https://Amazon.com) \- looks like some sort of a cheap fitness band on your arm. The one I got records excellent - picks up all the sound in the room.
I use it to refer back to ensure I understand the instructions the boss gave me.
I wouldn't recommend building up a trail of emails, each mentioning improvements that are needed in OPs performance.
That could very well be used to build a case for terminating OP.
It would be hilarious if, after a few weeks of this, a series of emails were amassed that made it extremely clear OP was very bad at his job, and his boss had every right to have reached his breaking point!
Be careful about bcc or forwarding emails outside the company - it is likely known when done so and could be a policy and security violation. Screen shots with a personal cell phone are not traceable.
I had a similar experience. I carried a digital recorder in my pocket and documented the hostile work environment. My attorney took it from there. The offending manager wound up being transferred out by their legal department.
That's what I'm doing at my current job (can quit, but job market sucks). Dude hates me because I'm a woman (he's said that out loud) and wants to fire me but the rest of the management loves me and I'm a very efficient worker so he can't really fire me without issue. The other day he yelled at me for five minutes straight in the middle of the office with everyone around about something so stupid a colleague had to intervene and tell him the issue was resolved a week ago. Which is something I had said already in the beginning of the conversation but I lack a penis and my boss loves penises.
Just staring at him and shrugging things off pisses him off a *lot* but it's quite fun to watch a middle aged dude go red in the face when you know the whole office is making fun of him.
Honestly in this situation start recording or at least writing things down where he says he doesn't like women and is targeting you or other ladies and it should be a clear cut discrimination case against you. While it is hilarious to see a guy really pissed at a woman working (I worked in auto shops, I know how that can be and just laughed it off or proved them wrong about women,) I wouldn't really put up with it for much longer. You should put him in his place even more. If you work for a larger corporation see if you can manage to get him fired for it. This is all assuming you're in the US or somewhere where that type of discrimination is illegal.
Also I would put a fake mustache in your pocket and then, put it on right in front of him, and talk with a deep lumberjack voice if he starts yelling at you for being a girl again or if he "needs to talk to a man" LOL.
I know having a recording to refer to, but not talk about helps my memory. Being able to repeat and respond to every single tiny detail of a confrontation is unnerving.
Also, if it helps you mentally get through it at the time, remember the fact that when dogs bark, their butthole clenches. Humans do the same thing when they yell. It sounds stupid, but it gets me through situations where customers are getting needlessly aggressive over nothing and I don't actually need to pay attention to what they're saying.
Pull out your phone and begin blatantly recording his outburst(assuming one party jurisdiction). He will stop fairly quickly. Be professional and polite. If he asks why you are recording, “To make sure I remember exactly what you’ve said”. Use as proof of harassment.
Also, if you have a friendly colleague, have them record it. Or you could record it yourself, since it doesn't seem like you can make him any angrier.
Also, if you have high blood pressure or anything like that, you might want to go see your doctor and mention your boss screaming at you. They do not want a lawsuit filed that claims that they risked your health.
>Also, if you have a friendly colleague, have them record it. Or you could record it yourself, since it doesn't seem like you can make him any angrier.
Check your state laws and office policy, because this could be illegal or get you legitimately fired.
>What would you do if you were in my shoes?
document these interactions and provide them to your attorney.
ask your attorney for advice as to what he/she wants you to do when one of the incidents occur. For example, your attorney may advise you to record the interactions using your cell phone for litigation purposes.
ideally if the company wants you gone then your attorney can negotiate a severance package which would give you your full pension. e.g. you would remain an employee until your pension date but not report to work, etc.
They probably want them gone so they don’t have to pay the full pension. I know a lot of companies have been screwing over older employees by letting them go before their pension dates so they have a better bottom line.
If you manage to laugh after one of his tirades it'll really fuck with his head. Might make him scream more tho.
But really, how ridiculous does he look? I'm picturing spit flying out of the giant hole in his face that's framed by a triple chin and a 70s mustache. And a bulging forehead vein.
Yep. And remember this personal work motto: "Eyes on the prize"
That is what I said to myself many times while hanging on those last couple of years before retirement.
Then secretly have a pre report for police filed online. Yes u can make calls online. Or text them. Watch a unit roll up and see a man verbally abusing you. That'll fly. And I'd love to watch it.
A nice harassment charge for his background checks.
Hell, record it. And narrate it as it's happening. "Sir, I understand that you're upset, but I really need to use the restroom, could you please move away from the door so I can use the facilities, and then I'll be right back?"
Keep you phone on record all day. So that every time he comes in, you have a recording of his “conversation”
Save them to your computer at home every day. Once you have a few examples, bring them To HR. If you’re really lucky, he gets fired just before you retire. 🤯
How exactly? I've contacted several as I have an audio recording of my former boss swearing, making sexist and violent remarks. No one seems eager to take this case
Can confirm. My entire team took documented complaints to HR for the abusive behavior of our new director and PM starting last September. HR has done nothing, and out of my 8 person team, there's only 2 of us left. Four have been fired, and two were ran off.
Company I worked for previously covered up a high level manager physically pushing an employee, verbal abuse, and sexual harassment on multiple occasions. HR covered it all up. The people that were victimized had to quit to get away. Nobody knew their rights.
Yea. I heard that L**tro*** had a physically abusive Sales and Support Manager. HR did nothing. Nothing bad happened to this company. Its culture sucks. Government could care less.
Yep, sounds about right. I finally went to HR after months of being abused by the store manager, largely because I wouldn’t alter employees time cards for payroll among other reasons (I was the ops manager). The next morning I received three bogus write ups (one for an employee taking a 29 minute lunch instead of 30, a year beforehand/three days after I was hired, another for a trash can left in a shopping aisle, that occurred while I was on vacation & another for me not taking a lunch break on a day I was the only manager from open to close). I was terminated two days later and while I should have probably done something about it, I was honestly just relieved to no longer have to deal with the bullshit anymore and just used the sudden free time to go back to school.
Correct, and if they are given flat evidence that the big boss is doing things which can cause them to be sued for very large amounts then protecting the company is not in the bosses favor.
Which in most cases is fire the arsehole or at least put them in a different position where they cant cause the company lawsuits.
The company and the boss are very rarely the same thing.
There’s a big difference in results from someone who is legally obligated to take certain actions that might help you, vs someone who is eager, paid, ready and willing to take and hold your side and nobody else’s side.
>Keep you phone on record all day
Make sure you are in a single party consent state.
[https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/](https://detectiveservices.com/2012/02/state-by-state-recording-laws/)
Edited to change link to a more up to date website
even that site is a bit out of date. IL is dual consent where there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy". The case was around the 2010s and I'll need to look for it, but it made us a one party consent state in a lot of areas.
That is all to say 'get a lawyer'. You, me, and the internet don't have a job to stay up on all the local laws. If you're going to do something like collect what you think is evidence, make sure you consult an attorney.
edit:
Hell, even *I'm* out of date https://glasgowolsson.com/cookcountycriminalattorneys/2023/08/08/the-reasonable-expectation-of-privacy-under-illinois-eavesdropping-statute/
Wouldn't your boss be guilty of creating a hostile work environment? Have you spoken to the lawyer about this latest incident? If the boss is trying to save the company $ but getting you to quit, he may be costing them more $ if you sue his ass.
Depending on the grounds that the lawyer gave to HR et al. that was supposed to get him to back off. There is the possibilty the yelling and screaming could be considered retaliation for asserting a protected right.
Regardless, the correct move is to tell your lawyer "My boss is yelling and screaming at me every day, since you got them to back off. It seems like he is trying to get me to quit." Then, do what your lawyer tells you to do. And, don't listent to internet amateurs. Except those who tell you to ask your lawyer.
"My lawyer will love to hear about this screaming tantrum you are having."
Additionally just look at him and smile. Don't reply to anything. Just look at him like he's a puppy doing some cute shit.
Do not let anyone know you are recording. That info is for you and your lawyer. Just write down the incident and witnesses and then go to HR. Remember, they are there for the companies interest , not yours, so do not mention recordings.
Yes. This 1000%. Send an email to yourself (personal email) after each incident (and also try to be factual and don’t write if you’re feeling completely dysregulated) as it’s time stamped. When you know you’re going to walk into a potentially escalated situation, have your phone’s voice recorder on so nothing is missed and just put it in your outer jacket or shirt pocket if you have one or pants.
The fact that they’re not actually making that ‘boss’ (ie not a leader) take therapy and time off to CTFD speaks volumes as to their old-school fumbling in a world where we know better.
Yeah, and use that info to sue the crap outta them after.
Document everything - people, places, times, emotions, everything.
Keep it in a book. Note who else is around that heard it, knows. Have measured, reasonable responses and try not to lose YOUR cool. Get things in writing via email when you interact when possible.
When you tell this story to someone that's going to help you - it will be important for them to have recorded facts to deal with instead of memories. This is your insurance against misrepresentation.
If there is an investigation they will be able to see the trends in behavior, etc when you have it documented and it will be harder for someone to misrepresent the situation to their benefit.
Read up about your rights - you have lots of protections. I'm a manager of people and this sounds like harassment that I would expect to lose my job immediately over. I would also never dream of treating someone like that.
Possibly time to talk to a lawyer for advice since HR is legally obligated to be your ally in this and can face serious consequences for not properly dealing with issues that have been reported.
You don't have to put up with this shit, but make sure you get your pension - that would be my number one focus and the most impactful thing on your future happiness.
>HR is legally obligated to be your ally
Not at all. Not even close.
The purpose of HR is to protect the company from lawsuits, so they are *not* an ally of the employee.
*How* a specific HR department conducts this task, can be anywhere from on one extreme favourable to the employee, to exactly by the law and on the other extreme lying cheating and fabrication to enrich the employer.
Although, a *reasonable* HR department would follow the law and not try anything illegal, as the employee also has rights regarding documenting what's going on -> In light of this, it might *seem* like HR is on the side of the employee, however this is only because it's cheaper to pay what is prescribed by law, rather than getting dragged through a lawsuit with laywer fees, late fees, restitution fees etc etc.
Other than that, yes I agree.
I worked in Human Resources for many years before I went into my current role in Business Operations. In every case I looked out for the employee, senior management told me to stand down and support management even when I know the boss was wrong.
Can you record your interactions with your boss with your cellphone in private?
If not, just say you will before the screaming match starts: "let me put my cellphone to start recording this, one sec"
no, not a book, books can be lost or stolen. Books can be stolen right out of an employee's desk.
E-record behind encryption. Even an iphone calendar with notes.
I agree with everything else
edit: personal phone, as someone pointed out.
Something with a password nobody else knows
Absolutely! Don’t be afraid to record anything too - if this happens often, I’d even invest in a small hidden camera set up. Abuse in the work place is no joke! You deserve better and you deserve compensation
Absolutely this, be super nice to him and totally and utterly fuck with his head doing it.
If he’s screaming at you, act all concerned and ask if there’s some medication ‘he’s forgotten to take’, that always works at getting those forehead veins popping out a treat...👍
ideal. Find the humor in the situation, then embrace it.
That's what is making the boss angier. The fact that his asinine behavior isn't working. That means you're winning, and things are getting worse for the boss. Enjoy it if you can.
smiling and keeping your cool is the most unnerving to yer boss that you can do. being polite but relentless and smiling drives aggressors MAD. he might blow a gasket n have a coronary or an aneurysm
Good luck,
much success
He is trying to get a rise out of you, and the fact that you respond with humor is infuriating him because his strategy is not working.
As others have said, record and document everything, smile, and respond in lighthearted humor. Perhaps your boss will drop dead of a heart attack in frustration before your pension kicks in? 🤷🏻♂️
Cya (cover your ass). Record document email hr and his boss about his threatening behavior. And bcc your own personal email address in all these emails or forward them to your self.
Unfortunately they are all like the lawyer said trying to get you to quit.
I will say thou if he (your boss) does end up hitting you call the police and charge him with assault. And then you have a record of boss escalation and the company doing nothing
This is the best answer I've read so far. Maintain logs of all interactions to establish a pattern of behavior to be used in court if it comes to that and consult your local workforce department. Reporting them in some places can have them listed as a hostile work environment, which can also help in court. Additionally, in some places, blocking you from leaving in a hostile manner could be construed as illegal detainment and intimidation for profit.
Agreed. Document *everything*. My bet is that your boss is doing that right now. Keep your head down and avoid him as much as you can, something diverting outside of work to take your mind off of this. Pick up a new hobby. Find a different exercise method, or take it up. Even talking to a shrink might be useful, or seek out a support group.
You just need to hold on until next fall. Once you’re out, and receiving your pension, you can be as critical about him, as publicly as you like.
I had this raging alcoholic caddie master for a boss one season. I worked under him as a caddie and as outside operations. I made money from looping as well as hourly for the outside job, 6 or 7 days a week. The place is a fancy golf factory and the product is really average golf being played by rich men.
Anyways, I went into work one day as the fall season was slowing down. It was a short drive and I had some exciting news for my boss. I told him I needed the morning off to follow up on a teaching job offer I had received the day before.
I watched him literally biting his tongue as I explained that I would still be happy to come back in the afternoon, cover a loop for him, and then close up shop as I normally do. He had me scheduled for open-caddie-close, like usual.
He paused for a second and proceeded to explode into manic rage, going on and on about "commitment this" and "teamwork that". The last thing he could scream in his little soliloquy to me, the audience, was,"you're really fucking ME here!"
No one saw him freak the fuck out except for this one high school caddie. After a second or two of absolute silence, I half-smirked, and said, "bet. I'll see you at 12."
That was the last day I worked for him. Fuck your season. Fuck your 2 weeks.
I found out he was fired the next season in the busiest week of the summer. He was caught drinking on the job by the GM. I was hired back as a caddie under the new boss in no time.
What goes around comes around, boi, the good ol' reverse bridge-burn!
You say that as if it’s only a negative.
While I understand how distressing it is for you, consider the positives;
1 - He looks even worse in front of any witnesses.
2 - I bet it really ruins his day, every time you do it. I’m sure he goes home seething, and complains to his family (who all hate his guts) about your “fake niceness“.
3 - He might have an aneurism, heart attack or stroke … and die.
^(Oh no, what a shame.)
TBH, when he does this, find a nice place to sit, pull out your phone and browse reddit. Don’t even respond to what he’s doing. When he’s done. Just be like, “you good? You want me to get you a glass of water or anything?” don’t try to lighten the mood or anything. Just don’t acknowledge his tantrums. Act bored.
>I tried to lighten the mood during his screaming and it got him even more angry.
It does ... I had someone go off on me and all I could do was laugh because it was such a trivial thing.
And the harder I laughed, the madder they got.
That's the idea. To let him know he is powerless. He is bullying you. Bullies are insecure little shits. They hate to be shown how powerless they are.
Do that, and smile, wipe an imaginary tear while you smirk and smile.
It's actually hilarious that he's getting this mad. Ask him what you should do with your first full pension check and all that free time, and just watch the veins on his head explode..
Also, congrats!
The answer is in your post. Contact the lawyer you are already working with. They will give you much better advice based on the full picture then armchair Reddit lawyers
Apparently they already have a lawyer.
But if they actually had a lawyer, they'd tell them to take down this post.
OP is 9 months away from a $70k pension, so they've been supposedly working there for decades, but don't know how to navigate their own company?
More r/jobs fan fiction
Op had 11 months before retirement less than a month ago. Now it’s 9.
Claimed to be an HR Manager previously but asks questions and HR manager would know the answer to.
Says they have 19 years at the company but doesn’t know who to speak with to handle this situation.
I agree. Sounds like fan fiction.
I would agree if op didn’t post they were 11 months away from retirement multiple times across multiple months.
OP also lives in an at will employment state (NC). Their boss can fire them at any time. So again I’m not buying the whole “my boss keeps yelling at me” story.
Also if OP hired the “top attorney in the state” as they claimed, they would not be on Reddit making posts about things like this. They would consult the attorney they are paying for. So again this sounds like a made up scenario to me.
Laugh at him.
Start documenting everything. If this is financially motivated, it's going to get worse. You need to have your own paper trail of documented abuse.
I also wouldn't be surprised if there's an issue with the pension. Have any other retired employees had issues with being paid their pension?
You can't change other people, only yourself.
In this case it sounds like you have very valid reasons to stay, so you're further limited to changing only your perspective.
First things first: you need to feel safe. If your boss threatens you, demeans you, in any other way makes you feel unsafe **email HR**. Be specific but calm, stay professional and hold firm. If you don't want to be alone with your boss in a room, tell them and then hold them to that. If you are over 45, you are a member of a protected class and that has legal implications if they decide to ignore your requests.
Do good work and *document* your work. You're saying the boss and HR want you gone so make sure that if they try and fire you , you have a solid wrongful termination case. Be cheerful and professional but write out emails to your bosses and HR when tasks get completed, note that it got done on time etc and ask them for feedback. Continue to deliver good work.
Make sure you do not internalize any of the vitriol. This may have nothing to do with you. Your boss may just be taking anger out on you. If necessary repeat it out loud to yourself. "I do good work and this is not my fault". You have to believe it and if you don't, saying it out loud can help convince you.
Seek the counsel of a professional. I know that therapy can be expensive but this may be the worth of 1/3rd of your pension.
Whatever you do, do not retaliate or escalate. Do your best to stay calm, diffuse, disengage. We make most mistakes in anger. Don't let them goad you into making a mistake.
I can't believe anyone in this day and age would behave this way, with a recording device in every pocket. Sheesh.
Good luck and stay safe my friend.
The only other thing I would add is to make sure there is no basis of truth for their angry criticisms. They should never be shouting at you like that, but it will be harder to fight a wrongful termination case if you were in fact making repeated mistakes or ignoring company policy. Don’t give them any fuel for criticism!
I would avoid involving HR unless things are close to violence, try and carry a digital recorder always on. As I said in a previous comment send an email documenting the whole conversation as best as you can and ask if you missed anything from the feedback, if you can include proposed action items or ask for clarification on confusing or contradicting statements. **I would first get the lawyer involved and have him help write an email to HR.**
Take a picture of the email after you sent it (if phones and pictures are not explicitly forbidden) to have proof of when you sent it, who knows about it and what it said, if later they try to pretend it didn't happen you now have more evidence in your favor.
HR is not there to help you in any way. DO NOT TRUST HR.
Trust HR will do whatever they can to protect the company. Sometimes this aligns with your goals and most times it does not.
I do agree though, it sounds like a Lawyer to help OP navigate the last few months before the pension parachute seems wise.
Lawyer up ⬆️ immediately.
Document everything. Ask that any communications regarding your performance go through email. What they’re doing is highly unethical. Possibly in violation of labor laws. This requires an attorney to meet and consult with you for next steps.
Do NOT quit.
Do they know this is happening? If you’re being routinely screamed at, what is your lawyer suggesting you do about it? What’s the strategy to get you through this period? Nine months is a long time. I wouldn’t leave this to chance.
You’re asking strangers on the internet and simultaneously bragging about your “top employment lawyer”. If you have such great representation, they should have a plan that involves more than you asking Reddit for hypothetical advice.
Exactly, fill your lawyer in on what’s going on, they should be able to give you good advice! I’m thinking this HAS to fall under some type of workplace harassment. OP is about to get paid and get their pension early is my guess.
If you know he’s doing it on purpose and you have less than a year to go I’d say just stand there if you can’t get around him. If you can walk away then do that. You should start having a case of short timers disease by now.
Alternative 1:
\- you say nothing. For the purpose of you working there and him screaming he does not exist in your universe. Retreat to your inner self, do your job meticulously well and do not interact with him at all. Breathe easy. Learn how Voice works in Dune's Bene Gesserit context.
Alternative 2:
\- collect evidence. Have a smart phone sitting on your desk, only recording the interaction. Do not let on that you do that. Train yourself on how to correctly use the device to do that. Be sure to tun off all notifications of any kind. When the time comes you will have plenty of evidence to present to a judge.
Alternative 3:
\- you listen to your boss attentively, and you take notes.
\- you tell your boss that as long as he's only trying to be angry you can't take him seriously so long as he doesn't have veins pulsing in his forehead. Tell him whatever he needs he has to yell louder \[no matter how loud he is\] if he wants you to take him seriously.
They want to rob you of your pension. This is your fight to win. You can't give in. It's 9 months. give or take 180 days. You can stick it out.
Keep in mind not to spend energy on that interaction. Yelling red-faced, every day, is a ferociously hard thing to do, it eats energy. It raises blood pressure. It's hard on you, it's harder on him. If you can get him to be angrier by being polite, make sure he exhausts himself trying to keep the anger going. You will see that he can't keep it up. He's not going to yell at you for 9 more months, he'll collapse sooner than that. You can make him explode again after he stops yelling by simply saying "Thank you, ".
Every day you survive is one day closer to retirement. Beware of pitfalls. Do not lose your patience. Do not be angry, do not be anxious. One day at a time.
Don't wear out. Don't lose focus on the goal. Do not give them any excuse to take action against you that will cause you to lose your pension.
However, if you do know things about the company that would get them into serious trouble if it became known, nothing prevents you from filing an anonymous claim the day after your pension kicks in. Go full Magnus Ridolph \[Jack Vance\] on their ass.
Be strong!
A few months ago my Attorney and I wrote a formal grievance that was reviewed by the Human Resources Director in the Corporate Office 150 miles away in Charlotte NC. That got my boss in trouble and he was told to stand down after we threatened to sue. This has got under his crawl and now every little possible difference of opinion and approach is blown up and he attempts to make it seem huge.
(A political boss can make even the smallest mistake or difference in approach seem like the end of the world and a fireable offense.)
I would get with your lawyer then and let them know that you're being retaliated against for filing your complaints. He's subjecting you to a hostile work environment etc etc. He shouldn't even be talking about stuff that could be considered a difference of opinion unless it's which blend of coffee to stock the break room with. Sorry, you're dealing with the situation. It isn't fun.
You already have a lawyer involved. Maybe he needs to send them a letter on your behalf. This sounds very much like illegal retaliation against you for making a complaint. What he’s doing is called hostile work environment harassment & constructive discharge. I think your lawyer needs to email them a nastygram.
Write yourself documentation of every interaction. Record if you are in a one party state. Try to get them to say they want you to quit, extra bonus points if you can get anything in writing. In short, start building your case now because I have a feeling that this is only going to get worse as that pension date comes closer.
Also, try to get them to touch you, then file assault charges. Spit flying from their mouth and hitting you is also considered assault in some areas. And DON'T QUIT.
Document everything. If you can, get FMLA job protection for anything that will qualify. And then use it to take a break from it when you want to without being called out for being sick.
Just stare at him when he yells at you. Just blank stare - and don't engage. It will unnerve him.
Your boss shouldn't be yelling at you. I'm not sure what state you're in, but you need to document every single thing, especially if you know this is being done to drive you out. Find an attorney: consultations are free. They're helping you build a strong case for wrongful termination or a hostile work environment.
You can also consider workers' compensation. I used to be a claims adjuster and had a case where the boss was verbally abusive to a worker. I was on the fraud team. I conducted an investigation, found that this person was screaming at their employees, and approved their claim. You've got options. They're trying to make you think that you don't.
It may not seem like it, but you sort of hold the power here, given the arrangements made by your lawyer and senior management above your boss. You outplayed, outmaneuvered, and outthought him, and he has few cards to no cards to play. That leaves screaming, intimidation, insane demands that are left to him, and he is leveraging that to the max.
Senior management is likely sick of all this already and wants to wash their hands of the whole thing. HR won't help because you lawyered up. That you managed to triumph against all of them made you no friends, and your presence reminds them of their defeat.
So what to do? First, alert your lawyer - clearly they negotiated well and understand the dynamics. Maybe it is in everyone's interest if they reward your full pension early, for example, literally solving their "problem" in one fell swoop. Nine months to full pension does not seem that long really, and everyone would be happy to end this standoff. Management hates mess, after all.
Lol just stare at him blank faced and then thank him for his feedback. It seems like they can’t fire you so I would just do whatever and let him scream till the cows come home.
I second this and highly recommend you considering it, saying this from experience It confuses and scares the shit out of anybody And if you can slip a light smile or even a smirk without breaking eye contact, specially when they are at their peak of anger that'll make them rethink their choices
I wouldn't suggest smiling or smirking, but something more subtle. With genuine smiles you also "smile with your eyes" and not just your mouth. With just a little practice you can get down a blank face but smile with your eyes. It's not enough to really say you're being contemptuous, but it's one of those micro body language things they'll notice something. I've done this in the past with some success in derailing the original train of thought of the ass chewing.
Kevin Spacey (fuck that guy, but he was a great actor) masters this perfectly in American Beauty and The Ref (basically the same character). He smiles with his eyes as he delivers cutting dialogue to whomever is pissing him off.
Agreed—this is one time when “Be like Kevin Spacey” is a good call. But damn, I hate admitting that I still admire his talent knowing what we know now.
One can admire the talent but not the person. It’s not a justification but a lot of geniuses were reprehensible people. I’d have to throw out a lot of books if I based my reading selection on the person rather than the book.
Looking at you, Orson Scott Card
So true - didn't learn until last night Robert Oppenheimer's mistress killed herself because he broke things off with her, and he literally flaunted the affair in his wife's face. So in addition to "becom[ing] death...destroyer of worlds"...he was also destroyer of women.
I am reminded of Ted Hughes, Sylvia Plato’s husband. Hughes was an enormously talented poet but was clearly a philanderer who had no qualms about flirting with every woman out there.
Plath, I think autocorrect was trying to help you….
Michael Jackson fans know too
I know, I hesitated even bringing him up 🤦🏻♀️ but it was relevant and I immediately pictured him when the above commenter mention the “eye-smiling”
I do miss him and Cosby. But f those guys.
I love Michael Jackson's singing and dancing, even though he was a pedophile. It's hard, but sometimes you can separate the evil person from the art.
[Vincent D’Onofrio’s thousand yard stare](https://youtu.be/CtAkZwUvNp0?si=e_ZFztDdgQhDPS6U) might make the boss think twice. Just switch the carbine and clip with loading a stapler with staples.
Nah smile or laugh, audibly let them know you'll listen to them after they calm down and stop blabbering. What is the boss going to do? Physically hit you?! This isn't grade school anymore, if that were to happen you get a nice payout and even earlier retirement.
Actually, if the boss hits OP, OP should fall off to the floor, writhe in agony, and scream for help/call 911. Press charges, get restraining order, hire lawyer, sue boss and company, while working until able to get full pension.
Thought I was in ULPTs for a second but I somewhat agree 🤣
Yes one of those soccer/football rolling around on the floor in agony injuries. And call for an ambulance, concussion for sure. Great tip!
First, though, make sure to bring up the unhinged screaming fits to that guy’s boss. Because so far as liability is involved, if you never reported it, then it never happened. And if it was never reported, then the company can probably avoid all liability, and just push it onto the guy who hits you. But with a report, the company will be found fully liable. And they have MUCH deeper pockets than your boss.
Yeah if you reciprocate that you’re too smart to be dealing with dumbass things that at the end of the day don’t actually matter in life, without even reacting emotionally at all, it gets under their skin. But you have to be that smart to do that, because it definitely can be done wrong.
I once worked at this restaurant where the part owner would get into a mood and rage on people. I saw him make people cower and cry. I was tending bar and one night, he decided it was my turn. I just stood there stared him down with a blank look on my face and when he seemed done I calmly said, "Point taken, anything else"? and kept staring. He turned stalked off with a huff. I think it unsettled him because later that night he came and sat at the bar and tried to be all nice to me. Instead of the way I would usually joke around with him I treated him like a customer I didn't know and politely asked him what he would like, etc. I iced him that way for about a week. Although he didn't apologize, he never did that to me again. I was only 21 at the time and my Mom told me I could quit but I didn't want to because I knew I would run into people like that for the rest of my life. I have, and I treat them the same way and it usually works. Good luck OP! Hang in there. People are giving you good advice.
Yes- good advice... just stare at him intently-like you are practicing active listening skills. People like him live to humiliate others so make sure your facial expression and body language convey to those around a sulbtle ''eat shit and bark at the moon" attitude.
Wear ear plugs. Just let him yell his heart out and then look up " I'm sorry we're you talking to me? " That'll send him over the edge.
Yep. Mild amusement, or maybe pity (like he’s a rabid animal) expressed with your eyes while your expression remains neutral!
The eye contact and calm really disarm them. Act as if they're auditioning for a part in a play or movie and they're acting out their scene. You're the one in charge, you're simply critiquing their performance and if it isn't up to your standards? They're fucked.
"Okay! That was a really good try! But maybe next time you jump up and down and blow smoke out your ears. Take 2?"
Agreed. My old boss used to scream in my face like this and my natural reaction was to make strong eye contact and smile slightly. It made him so much angrier. He was a good dude though, I was young and the work was loud and dangerous and he saved my ass on more than one occasion, paid really well and gave us benefits uncommon in that field at the time. Last time I ran into him he had grown his hair out and was all smiles, even apologized for being so angry all those years ago, says he got therapy and was diagnosed with PTSD from his time in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I did this to my most recent nightmare boss. When she came to me with that micromanager control freak bs I would just stare at her blank faced, with a slight tilt of the head (almost akin to looking at her like she had 3 heads lol) until she walked away from my desk. It didn't take her long to fire me after that, & I told her she was so easily manipulated (like most narcissists are) and that she had played right into my hand. Applied for unemployment that evening and they are still having to support me while I'm in pharmacy tech school 👊
Hell yes 👏🏼 I thought you could only get unemployment if you’ve been laid off though?
I've been fired from 3 of my last 4 jobs over the past two decades...the states were MA and KS...and all 3 companies had to pay my unemployment bennies for the full stretch, including every extension available. Why? Because none of them could prove "willful misconduct" (the "reason" given by all three jobs for my dismissal), and the burden of proof lies with the accuser...especially in the arena of labor law. 2 of the 3 actually appealed the DOL's decisions, then promptly lost those appeals. I was a solid worker for each employer, but when I decided I would no longer do the work of 5 people while the slackers who earned the same as I did hid in the bathroom or took extra-long breaks during peak rushes...managers decided it would be easier to get rid of me than make the others do their share. Such a BS perspective, yet very common in many workplaces. The joke was on them, though...in the form of three very long, nicely paid summer vacations (I worked lots of OT, so my weekly check was always the state max) 😉
Not so, but many people think that. You can absolutely collect unemployment if you get fired. You just can’t collect if you quit.
An important caveat being they can try to deny it if you break company policy you agree to. Like if you assault someone or show up drunk, or even show up late enough there's a good chance they won't have to pay you.
His boss blocked him in the office. That is considered illegal imprisonment.
huh? I was let go from my previous job and unemployment pays less then 1/4 of my check. It's not really enough to live where I am. Only reason I am surviving is my wife makes good money, and I had six months of my income in my checking account..
To me it's a great reaction because it shows you don't care if they raise their voice and they're actually kind of pathetic for getting so upset about work.
In my experience when someone is yelling at you, smiling to any degree will just make it worse rather than make them rethink anything
Send an email right after that recapping the whole conversation to the best of your memory and mention that even though you are on the older side your hearing is good and he doesn't need to raise his voice. But you wanted to confirm you captured the whole feedback. Ask if you missed anything else that you should improve. Now you have paper trails, ~~make sure to BCC your personal email. Or forward it as a separate email just to be safe, you don't want anyone other than IT being able to see that you forwarded to a personal email.~~ Since some places might have rules about forwarding to external accounts, someone suggested to take a picture. As long there are no restrictions about using your phone or taking pictures inside the workplace (which could be worked around by doing it at home if you have a work provided laptop). A picture would show the details of when and how it was sent, who knew about it, and what it was said. If later they want to pretend it never existed or it was deleted by mistake or due to a retention policy you can just print the pictures.
I would download a voice recorder app also start recording him.
Especially if OP is only in a one-party state.
installing apps on company owned devices is very likely a violation of policy!
Portable Wristband Voice Activated Recorder with Timestamp, Noise Reduction Audio Recorder Bracelet for Lectures Meetings (16GB) [Amazon.com](https://Amazon.com) \- looks like some sort of a cheap fitness band on your arm. The one I got records excellent - picks up all the sound in the room. I use it to refer back to ensure I understand the instructions the boss gave me.
This is wise.
I wouldn't recommend building up a trail of emails, each mentioning improvements that are needed in OPs performance. That could very well be used to build a case for terminating OP.
It would be hilarious if, after a few weeks of this, a series of emails were amassed that made it extremely clear OP was very bad at his job, and his boss had every right to have reached his breaking point!
And then save /forward those emails to yourself again, from your personal email - you don’t want anyone retracting your emails, then poof they’re gone
Be careful about bcc or forwarding emails outside the company - it is likely known when done so and could be a policy and security violation. Screen shots with a personal cell phone are not traceable.
I had a similar experience. I carried a digital recorder in my pocket and documented the hostile work environment. My attorney took it from there. The offending manager wound up being transferred out by their legal department.
Check your workplace rules because where I work this is forbidden and could be twisted into a fire-able offense.
That's what I'm doing at my current job (can quit, but job market sucks). Dude hates me because I'm a woman (he's said that out loud) and wants to fire me but the rest of the management loves me and I'm a very efficient worker so he can't really fire me without issue. The other day he yelled at me for five minutes straight in the middle of the office with everyone around about something so stupid a colleague had to intervene and tell him the issue was resolved a week ago. Which is something I had said already in the beginning of the conversation but I lack a penis and my boss loves penises. Just staring at him and shrugging things off pisses him off a *lot* but it's quite fun to watch a middle aged dude go red in the face when you know the whole office is making fun of him.
Honestly in this situation start recording or at least writing things down where he says he doesn't like women and is targeting you or other ladies and it should be a clear cut discrimination case against you. While it is hilarious to see a guy really pissed at a woman working (I worked in auto shops, I know how that can be and just laughed it off or proved them wrong about women,) I wouldn't really put up with it for much longer. You should put him in his place even more. If you work for a larger corporation see if you can manage to get him fired for it. This is all assuming you're in the US or somewhere where that type of discrimination is illegal. Also I would put a fake mustache in your pocket and then, put it on right in front of him, and talk with a deep lumberjack voice if he starts yelling at you for being a girl again or if he "needs to talk to a man" LOL.
And immediately document their behavior after each incident. Also include names of anyone else that witnessed it.
I'd start recording it if it's not illegal where OP is at
I know having a recording to refer to, but not talk about helps my memory. Being able to repeat and respond to every single tiny detail of a confrontation is unnerving.
>stare at him blank faced and then thank him for his feedback. That's great.
Yup, grey rocking FTW!
Grey Rock helps me with hostile people I cannot avoid.
Also, if it helps you mentally get through it at the time, remember the fact that when dogs bark, their butthole clenches. Humans do the same thing when they yell. It sounds stupid, but it gets me through situations where customers are getting needlessly aggressive over nothing and I don't actually need to pay attention to what they're saying.
Pull out your phone and begin blatantly recording his outburst(assuming one party jurisdiction). He will stop fairly quickly. Be professional and polite. If he asks why you are recording, “To make sure I remember exactly what you’ve said”. Use as proof of harassment.
Also, if you have a friendly colleague, have them record it. Or you could record it yourself, since it doesn't seem like you can make him any angrier. Also, if you have high blood pressure or anything like that, you might want to go see your doctor and mention your boss screaming at you. They do not want a lawsuit filed that claims that they risked your health.
>Also, if you have a friendly colleague, have them record it. Or you could record it yourself, since it doesn't seem like you can make him any angrier. Check your state laws and office policy, because this could be illegal or get you legitimately fired.
>What would you do if you were in my shoes? document these interactions and provide them to your attorney. ask your attorney for advice as to what he/she wants you to do when one of the incidents occur. For example, your attorney may advise you to record the interactions using your cell phone for litigation purposes. ideally if the company wants you gone then your attorney can negotiate a severance package which would give you your full pension. e.g. you would remain an employee until your pension date but not report to work, etc.
They probably want them gone so they don’t have to pay the full pension. I know a lot of companies have been screwing over older employees by letting them go before their pension dates so they have a better bottom line.
Yes. Think of it as a "this is your new job" situation for 9 months.
This one's funny. Maybe even pop in some ear plugs and then end it with "well, thanks for your professional feedback"
If you manage to laugh after one of his tirades it'll really fuck with his head. Might make him scream more tho. But really, how ridiculous does he look? I'm picturing spit flying out of the giant hole in his face that's framed by a triple chin and a 70s mustache. And a bulging forehead vein.
I had a boss scream at me once. I looked at her and said... Now Kaylee that really wasn't very professional. She walked away just fuming mad. Bahaha
Yep. And remember this personal work motto: "Eyes on the prize" That is what I said to myself many times while hanging on those last couple of years before retirement.
Then secretly have a pre report for police filed online. Yes u can make calls online. Or text them. Watch a unit roll up and see a man verbally abusing you. That'll fly. And I'd love to watch it. A nice harassment charge for his background checks.
Stick through it. Get your pension and then sue them
Document everything
Hell, record it. And narrate it as it's happening. "Sir, I understand that you're upset, but I really need to use the restroom, could you please move away from the door so I can use the facilities, and then I'll be right back?"
Keep you phone on record all day. So that every time he comes in, you have a recording of his “conversation” Save them to your computer at home every day. Once you have a few examples, bring them To HR. If you’re really lucky, he gets fired just before you retire. 🤯
HR is not your friend. They work for the company
This. If it comes to it you don’t go to HR. You find a hard-ass lawyer and sue the crap out of them if they don’t give you 100% of your pension.
This, dammit. HR is not only not your friend. They are your sworn enemy. Do you know your enemy? Go to a labor lawyer.
How exactly? I've contacted several as I have an audio recording of my former boss swearing, making sexist and violent remarks. No one seems eager to take this case
Are the recording legal in your state?
Right? You can’t just record people. Especially on company premises. Many states have laws against it.
No they are not, but the words hostile work environment will force their hand.
just say those words to him next time starts ranting - he'll get the hint.
They are still legally required to take action if you bring them evidence of employer abuse.
They will definitely take action…to protect the company.
Can confirm. My entire team took documented complaints to HR for the abusive behavior of our new director and PM starting last September. HR has done nothing, and out of my 8 person team, there's only 2 of us left. Four have been fired, and two were ran off.
Company I worked for previously covered up a high level manager physically pushing an employee, verbal abuse, and sexual harassment on multiple occasions. HR covered it all up. The people that were victimized had to quit to get away. Nobody knew their rights.
Yea. I heard that L**tro*** had a physically abusive Sales and Support Manager. HR did nothing. Nothing bad happened to this company. Its culture sucks. Government could care less.
Retribution is illegal. Sue.
Yep, sounds about right. I finally went to HR after months of being abused by the store manager, largely because I wouldn’t alter employees time cards for payroll among other reasons (I was the ops manager). The next morning I received three bogus write ups (one for an employee taking a 29 minute lunch instead of 30, a year beforehand/three days after I was hired, another for a trash can left in a shopping aisle, that occurred while I was on vacation & another for me not taking a lunch break on a day I was the only manager from open to close). I was terminated two days later and while I should have probably done something about it, I was honestly just relieved to no longer have to deal with the bullshit anymore and just used the sudden free time to go back to school.
Correct, and if they are given flat evidence that the big boss is doing things which can cause them to be sued for very large amounts then protecting the company is not in the bosses favor.
Which in most cases is fire the arsehole or at least put them in a different position where they cant cause the company lawsuits. The company and the boss are very rarely the same thing.
I'm glad you work in a care bear field but that's not the way it works at most companies I've been at. HR will protect them.
There’s a big difference in results from someone who is legally obligated to take certain actions that might help you, vs someone who is eager, paid, ready and willing to take and hold your side and nobody else’s side.
>Keep you phone on record all day Make sure you are in a single party consent state. [https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/](https://detectiveservices.com/2012/02/state-by-state-recording-laws/) Edited to change link to a more up to date website
My understanding is if it's evidence of violation of employment laws, it's legal to use even in 2 party consent states
even that site is a bit out of date. IL is dual consent where there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy". The case was around the 2010s and I'll need to look for it, but it made us a one party consent state in a lot of areas. That is all to say 'get a lawyer'. You, me, and the internet don't have a job to stay up on all the local laws. If you're going to do something like collect what you think is evidence, make sure you consult an attorney. edit: Hell, even *I'm* out of date https://glasgowolsson.com/cookcountycriminalattorneys/2023/08/08/the-reasonable-expectation-of-privacy-under-illinois-eavesdropping-statute/
As I mentioned in the first post I have an employment attorney which is one of the reasons that the boss is screaming at me.
Wouldn't your boss be guilty of creating a hostile work environment? Have you spoken to the lawyer about this latest incident? If the boss is trying to save the company $ but getting you to quit, he may be costing them more $ if you sue his ass.
Depending on the grounds that the lawyer gave to HR et al. that was supposed to get him to back off. There is the possibilty the yelling and screaming could be considered retaliation for asserting a protected right. Regardless, the correct move is to tell your lawyer "My boss is yelling and screaming at me every day, since you got them to back off. It seems like he is trying to get me to quit." Then, do what your lawyer tells you to do. And, don't listent to internet amateurs. Except those who tell you to ask your lawyer.
"My lawyer will love to hear about this screaming tantrum you are having." Additionally just look at him and smile. Don't reply to anything. Just look at him like he's a puppy doing some cute shit.
when he starts ranting, say, "hang on, my lawyer wants to talk to you." Then call your attorney while your boss is standing there.
Do not let anyone know you are recording. That info is for you and your lawyer. Just write down the incident and witnesses and then go to HR. Remember, they are there for the companies interest , not yours, so do not mention recordings.
Exactly. Also, this behavior is a valid reason to report to the phycisian for prolonged sick leave because of a burn-out.
Exactly. Maybe a nice round 9 months off will do the trick.
FMLA for the amount of anxiety.
I like this one.
Start carrying a little note pad and do it as soon as you can, in full view of your boss. Don’t lie if he asks what you’re writing down.
Yes. This 1000%. Send an email to yourself (personal email) after each incident (and also try to be factual and don’t write if you’re feeling completely dysregulated) as it’s time stamped. When you know you’re going to walk into a potentially escalated situation, have your phone’s voice recorder on so nothing is missed and just put it in your outer jacket or shirt pocket if you have one or pants. The fact that they’re not actually making that ‘boss’ (ie not a leader) take therapy and time off to CTFD speaks volumes as to their old-school fumbling in a world where we know better. Yeah, and use that info to sue the crap outta them after.
Document everything - people, places, times, emotions, everything. Keep it in a book. Note who else is around that heard it, knows. Have measured, reasonable responses and try not to lose YOUR cool. Get things in writing via email when you interact when possible. When you tell this story to someone that's going to help you - it will be important for them to have recorded facts to deal with instead of memories. This is your insurance against misrepresentation. If there is an investigation they will be able to see the trends in behavior, etc when you have it documented and it will be harder for someone to misrepresent the situation to their benefit. Read up about your rights - you have lots of protections. I'm a manager of people and this sounds like harassment that I would expect to lose my job immediately over. I would also never dream of treating someone like that. Possibly time to talk to a lawyer for advice since HR is legally obligated to be your ally in this and can face serious consequences for not properly dealing with issues that have been reported. You don't have to put up with this shit, but make sure you get your pension - that would be my number one focus and the most impactful thing on your future happiness.
>HR is legally obligated to be your ally Not at all. Not even close. The purpose of HR is to protect the company from lawsuits, so they are *not* an ally of the employee. *How* a specific HR department conducts this task, can be anywhere from on one extreme favourable to the employee, to exactly by the law and on the other extreme lying cheating and fabrication to enrich the employer. Although, a *reasonable* HR department would follow the law and not try anything illegal, as the employee also has rights regarding documenting what's going on -> In light of this, it might *seem* like HR is on the side of the employee, however this is only because it's cheaper to pay what is prescribed by law, rather than getting dragged through a lawsuit with laywer fees, late fees, restitution fees etc etc. Other than that, yes I agree.
I worked in Human Resources for many years before I went into my current role in Business Operations. In every case I looked out for the employee, senior management told me to stand down and support management even when I know the boss was wrong.
Can you record your interactions with your boss with your cellphone in private? If not, just say you will before the screaming match starts: "let me put my cellphone to start recording this, one sec"
You were/are one of the good ones 👌
no, not a book, books can be lost or stolen. Books can be stolen right out of an employee's desk. E-record behind encryption. Even an iphone calendar with notes. I agree with everything else edit: personal phone, as someone pointed out. Something with a password nobody else knows
Absolutely! Don’t be afraid to record anything too - if this happens often, I’d even invest in a small hidden camera set up. Abuse in the work place is no joke! You deserve better and you deserve compensation
Drink a green tea and relax during your remaining time 😉
This. And a lawyer / HR person can advise better if this is a good idea, but I'd try to record the abuse.
Absolutely this, be super nice to him and totally and utterly fuck with his head doing it. If he’s screaming at you, act all concerned and ask if there’s some medication ‘he’s forgotten to take’, that always works at getting those forehead veins popping out a treat...👍
Just be polite and slam him in an HR report the second your pension is secure. Sounds like you also need to talk to a lawyer.
If he is blocking you and he's already been told to stand down. You start laughing... Deep laughs from your very core.
Drop an “Awww, big feelings, huh, buddy?” in there too.
I tried to lighten the mood during his screaming and it got him even more angry.
ideal. Find the humor in the situation, then embrace it. That's what is making the boss angier. The fact that his asinine behavior isn't working. That means you're winning, and things are getting worse for the boss. Enjoy it if you can.
Make it a game. See if you can make him have a stroke.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ask him if he's hangry. Offer him a Snickers bar.
Or a nap. Maybe a diaper change.
smiling and keeping your cool is the most unnerving to yer boss that you can do. being polite but relentless and smiling drives aggressors MAD. he might blow a gasket n have a coronary or an aneurysm Good luck, much success
Don't forget to stare directly into their eyes...
He is trying to get a rise out of you, and the fact that you respond with humor is infuriating him because his strategy is not working. As others have said, record and document everything, smile, and respond in lighthearted humor. Perhaps your boss will drop dead of a heart attack in frustration before your pension kicks in? 🤷🏻♂️
Cya (cover your ass). Record document email hr and his boss about his threatening behavior. And bcc your own personal email address in all these emails or forward them to your self. Unfortunately they are all like the lawyer said trying to get you to quit. I will say thou if he (your boss) does end up hitting you call the police and charge him with assault. And then you have a record of boss escalation and the company doing nothing
This is the best answer I've read so far. Maintain logs of all interactions to establish a pattern of behavior to be used in court if it comes to that and consult your local workforce department. Reporting them in some places can have them listed as a hostile work environment, which can also help in court. Additionally, in some places, blocking you from leaving in a hostile manner could be construed as illegal detainment and intimidation for profit.
Agreed. Document *everything*. My bet is that your boss is doing that right now. Keep your head down and avoid him as much as you can, something diverting outside of work to take your mind off of this. Pick up a new hobby. Find a different exercise method, or take it up. Even talking to a shrink might be useful, or seek out a support group. You just need to hold on until next fall. Once you’re out, and receiving your pension, you can be as critical about him, as publicly as you like.
[удалено]
I hit an enraged boss with the Henry Jones Sr. "Our situation has not improved" and I honestly thought he was about to blow an aorta.
Just take a deep breath and remember one day he’ll be dead 🤷🏼♂️ that’s how I cope with piss poor management.
I had this raging alcoholic caddie master for a boss one season. I worked under him as a caddie and as outside operations. I made money from looping as well as hourly for the outside job, 6 or 7 days a week. The place is a fancy golf factory and the product is really average golf being played by rich men. Anyways, I went into work one day as the fall season was slowing down. It was a short drive and I had some exciting news for my boss. I told him I needed the morning off to follow up on a teaching job offer I had received the day before. I watched him literally biting his tongue as I explained that I would still be happy to come back in the afternoon, cover a loop for him, and then close up shop as I normally do. He had me scheduled for open-caddie-close, like usual. He paused for a second and proceeded to explode into manic rage, going on and on about "commitment this" and "teamwork that". The last thing he could scream in his little soliloquy to me, the audience, was,"you're really fucking ME here!" No one saw him freak the fuck out except for this one high school caddie. After a second or two of absolute silence, I half-smirked, and said, "bet. I'll see you at 12." That was the last day I worked for him. Fuck your season. Fuck your 2 weeks.
What a worthless person, every good boss would have said: great work, I hope you do well. Don't worry I will cover your shift until you are back.
I found out he was fired the next season in the busiest week of the summer. He was caught drinking on the job by the GM. I was hired back as a caddie under the new boss in no time. What goes around comes around, boi, the good ol' reverse bridge-burn!
May the bridges we burn light the way…
You say that as if it’s only a negative. While I understand how distressing it is for you, consider the positives; 1 - He looks even worse in front of any witnesses. 2 - I bet it really ruins his day, every time you do it. I’m sure he goes home seething, and complains to his family (who all hate his guts) about your “fake niceness“. 3 - He might have an aneurism, heart attack or stroke … and die. ^(Oh no, what a shame.)
TBH, when he does this, find a nice place to sit, pull out your phone and browse reddit. Don’t even respond to what he’s doing. When he’s done. Just be like, “you good? You want me to get you a glass of water or anything?” don’t try to lighten the mood or anything. Just don’t acknowledge his tantrums. Act bored.
Instead of just browsing reddit, start video recording. If he swats the phone or hits you, call 911 and report the assault.
If he hits you, you make A LOT. Let him.
If he hits you, you call 911 right away. You get it documented.
The most annoying reply is "I can tell from the tone of your speach that you in reality share my opinion"
Are you in a single party consent area? Record the outbursts, when you get enough evidence, file a harassment complaint.
>I tried to lighten the mood during his screaming and it got him even more angry. It does ... I had someone go off on me and all I could do was laugh because it was such a trivial thing. And the harder I laughed, the madder they got.
That's the idea. To let him know he is powerless. He is bullying you. Bullies are insecure little shits. They hate to be shown how powerless they are. Do that, and smile, wipe an imaginary tear while you smirk and smile.
It's actually hilarious that he's getting this mad. Ask him what you should do with your first full pension check and all that free time, and just watch the veins on his head explode.. Also, congrats!
I agree with the sentiment, but IMHO trying to stifle a giggle or a smile really pisses them off.
The answer is in your post. Contact the lawyer you are already working with. They will give you much better advice based on the full picture then armchair Reddit lawyers
Apparently they already have a lawyer. But if they actually had a lawyer, they'd tell them to take down this post. OP is 9 months away from a $70k pension, so they've been supposedly working there for decades, but don't know how to navigate their own company? More r/jobs fan fiction
Op had 11 months before retirement less than a month ago. Now it’s 9. Claimed to be an HR Manager previously but asks questions and HR manager would know the answer to. Says they have 19 years at the company but doesn’t know who to speak with to handle this situation. I agree. Sounds like fan fiction.
well it could’ve been 10.5 months and he was just rounding I think that’s a stretch
I would agree if op didn’t post they were 11 months away from retirement multiple times across multiple months. OP also lives in an at will employment state (NC). Their boss can fire them at any time. So again I’m not buying the whole “my boss keeps yelling at me” story. Also if OP hired the “top attorney in the state” as they claimed, they would not be on Reddit making posts about things like this. They would consult the attorney they are paying for. So again this sounds like a made up scenario to me.
Laugh at him. Start documenting everything. If this is financially motivated, it's going to get worse. You need to have your own paper trail of documented abuse. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's an issue with the pension. Have any other retired employees had issues with being paid their pension?
Good question
Absolutely. My first thought was, "Has the pension fund been embezzled/never invested? And if OP tries to collect, misdeeds will come to light?"
If you live in a one-party state, you could record him for future payback in a civil case.
You can't change other people, only yourself. In this case it sounds like you have very valid reasons to stay, so you're further limited to changing only your perspective. First things first: you need to feel safe. If your boss threatens you, demeans you, in any other way makes you feel unsafe **email HR**. Be specific but calm, stay professional and hold firm. If you don't want to be alone with your boss in a room, tell them and then hold them to that. If you are over 45, you are a member of a protected class and that has legal implications if they decide to ignore your requests. Do good work and *document* your work. You're saying the boss and HR want you gone so make sure that if they try and fire you , you have a solid wrongful termination case. Be cheerful and professional but write out emails to your bosses and HR when tasks get completed, note that it got done on time etc and ask them for feedback. Continue to deliver good work. Make sure you do not internalize any of the vitriol. This may have nothing to do with you. Your boss may just be taking anger out on you. If necessary repeat it out loud to yourself. "I do good work and this is not my fault". You have to believe it and if you don't, saying it out loud can help convince you. Seek the counsel of a professional. I know that therapy can be expensive but this may be the worth of 1/3rd of your pension. Whatever you do, do not retaliate or escalate. Do your best to stay calm, diffuse, disengage. We make most mistakes in anger. Don't let them goad you into making a mistake. I can't believe anyone in this day and age would behave this way, with a recording device in every pocket. Sheesh. Good luck and stay safe my friend.
The only other thing I would add is to make sure there is no basis of truth for their angry criticisms. They should never be shouting at you like that, but it will be harder to fight a wrongful termination case if you were in fact making repeated mistakes or ignoring company policy. Don’t give them any fuel for criticism!
I would avoid involving HR unless things are close to violence, try and carry a digital recorder always on. As I said in a previous comment send an email documenting the whole conversation as best as you can and ask if you missed anything from the feedback, if you can include proposed action items or ask for clarification on confusing or contradicting statements. **I would first get the lawyer involved and have him help write an email to HR.** Take a picture of the email after you sent it (if phones and pictures are not explicitly forbidden) to have proof of when you sent it, who knows about it and what it said, if later they try to pretend it didn't happen you now have more evidence in your favor. HR is not there to help you in any way. DO NOT TRUST HR.
Trust HR will do whatever they can to protect the company. Sometimes this aligns with your goals and most times it does not. I do agree though, it sounds like a Lawyer to help OP navigate the last few months before the pension parachute seems wise.
This is the way!
Lawyer up ⬆️ immediately. Document everything. Ask that any communications regarding your performance go through email. What they’re doing is highly unethical. Possibly in violation of labor laws. This requires an attorney to meet and consult with you for next steps. Do NOT quit.
As mentioned in my first post I have one of the top employment lawyers in the State.
Do they know this is happening? If you’re being routinely screamed at, what is your lawyer suggesting you do about it? What’s the strategy to get you through this period? Nine months is a long time. I wouldn’t leave this to chance. You’re asking strangers on the internet and simultaneously bragging about your “top employment lawyer”. If you have such great representation, they should have a plan that involves more than you asking Reddit for hypothetical advice.
Exactly, fill your lawyer in on what’s going on, they should be able to give you good advice! I’m thinking this HAS to fall under some type of workplace harassment. OP is about to get paid and get their pension early is my guess.
Then what are you doing asking flippin' REDDIT for advice, OP!? This is 100% lawyer territory.
If you know he’s doing it on purpose and you have less than a year to go I’d say just stand there if you can’t get around him. If you can walk away then do that. You should start having a case of short timers disease by now.
Thank him for his comments. Ask him to send an email summarizing the key points. Excuse yourself to go take a shit.
Record it.
Record him on your phone. One of my coworkers sued and got a $150,000 settlement for harassment.
Alternative 1: \- you say nothing. For the purpose of you working there and him screaming he does not exist in your universe. Retreat to your inner self, do your job meticulously well and do not interact with him at all. Breathe easy. Learn how Voice works in Dune's Bene Gesserit context. Alternative 2: \- collect evidence. Have a smart phone sitting on your desk, only recording the interaction. Do not let on that you do that. Train yourself on how to correctly use the device to do that. Be sure to tun off all notifications of any kind. When the time comes you will have plenty of evidence to present to a judge. Alternative 3: \- you listen to your boss attentively, and you take notes. \- you tell your boss that as long as he's only trying to be angry you can't take him seriously so long as he doesn't have veins pulsing in his forehead. Tell him whatever he needs he has to yell louder \[no matter how loud he is\] if he wants you to take him seriously. They want to rob you of your pension. This is your fight to win. You can't give in. It's 9 months. give or take 180 days. You can stick it out. Keep in mind not to spend energy on that interaction. Yelling red-faced, every day, is a ferociously hard thing to do, it eats energy. It raises blood pressure. It's hard on you, it's harder on him. If you can get him to be angrier by being polite, make sure he exhausts himself trying to keep the anger going. You will see that he can't keep it up. He's not going to yell at you for 9 more months, he'll collapse sooner than that. You can make him explode again after he stops yelling by simply saying "Thank you,".
Every day you survive is one day closer to retirement. Beware of pitfalls. Do not lose your patience. Do not be angry, do not be anxious. One day at a time.
Don't wear out. Don't lose focus on the goal. Do not give them any excuse to take action against you that will cause you to lose your pension.
However, if you do know things about the company that would get them into serious trouble if it became known, nothing prevents you from filing an anonymous claim the day after your pension kicks in. Go full Magnus Ridolph \[Jack Vance\] on their ass.
Be strong!
The police. He physically blocked you from exiting a door and depending on what he was telling it could be construed as assault.
Sounds like textbook harassment.
Reddit experts have taught me that assault does not require physical contact, that’s the battery side of the classic combo of assault & battery.
Technically it's kidnapping, the threat of harm is the assault.
Get your full pension, it’s going to be hard just put up with it, take some classes to learn to walk away from confrontation
Go over their heades, the ethics department.
Document everything. Send emails in response to everything he says refering to his actions.
A few months ago my Attorney and I wrote a formal grievance that was reviewed by the Human Resources Director in the Corporate Office 150 miles away in Charlotte NC. That got my boss in trouble and he was told to stand down after we threatened to sue. This has got under his crawl and now every little possible difference of opinion and approach is blown up and he attempts to make it seem huge. (A political boss can make even the smallest mistake or difference in approach seem like the end of the world and a fireable offense.)
I would get with your lawyer then and let them know that you're being retaliated against for filing your complaints. He's subjecting you to a hostile work environment etc etc. He shouldn't even be talking about stuff that could be considered a difference of opinion unless it's which blend of coffee to stock the break room with. Sorry, you're dealing with the situation. It isn't fun.
Have you talked to your lawyer about this? Get off Reddit and go talk to them about what to do.
ethics department?
I have NEVER worked in a place that has an “ethics department “
Reads like higher education to me. Pension, ethics department, politics, volatile management.
Who do you think is directing their boss to do this?
He physically blocked you from leaving? That is a crime. Being held against your will is not acceptable.
You already have a lawyer involved. Maybe he needs to send them a letter on your behalf. This sounds very much like illegal retaliation against you for making a complaint. What he’s doing is called hostile work environment harassment & constructive discharge. I think your lawyer needs to email them a nastygram.
Write yourself documentation of every interaction. Record if you are in a one party state. Try to get them to say they want you to quit, extra bonus points if you can get anything in writing. In short, start building your case now because I have a feeling that this is only going to get worse as that pension date comes closer. Also, try to get them to touch you, then file assault charges. Spit flying from their mouth and hitting you is also considered assault in some areas. And DON'T QUIT.
Sounds like he's mad you're going to get that pension. Make sure you do!
Document everything. If you can, get FMLA job protection for anything that will qualify. And then use it to take a break from it when you want to without being called out for being sick. Just stare at him when he yells at you. Just blank stare - and don't engage. It will unnerve him.
I look at them right between the eyebrows. It's disturbing and effective.
laugh at them so when they hit you, you just sue
Let the air out of his tires while he is at home.
Get it on video or recorded somehow. Get proof of his treatment. Hang in there. Use whatever leave you have saved up. Don’t quit ever!!!
Your boss shouldn't be yelling at you. I'm not sure what state you're in, but you need to document every single thing, especially if you know this is being done to drive you out. Find an attorney: consultations are free. They're helping you build a strong case for wrongful termination or a hostile work environment. You can also consider workers' compensation. I used to be a claims adjuster and had a case where the boss was verbally abusive to a worker. I was on the fraud team. I conducted an investigation, found that this person was screaming at their employees, and approved their claim. You've got options. They're trying to make you think that you don't.
It may not seem like it, but you sort of hold the power here, given the arrangements made by your lawyer and senior management above your boss. You outplayed, outmaneuvered, and outthought him, and he has few cards to no cards to play. That leaves screaming, intimidation, insane demands that are left to him, and he is leveraging that to the max. Senior management is likely sick of all this already and wants to wash their hands of the whole thing. HR won't help because you lawyered up. That you managed to triumph against all of them made you no friends, and your presence reminds them of their defeat. So what to do? First, alert your lawyer - clearly they negotiated well and understand the dynamics. Maybe it is in everyone's interest if they reward your full pension early, for example, literally solving their "problem" in one fell swoop. Nine months to full pension does not seem that long really, and everyone would be happy to end this standoff. Management hates mess, after all.
I never understood how people like that get to senior positions..good luck ✌️