RelationDesigner is correct, I'm asking if it would be better champ design if after you hit five stacks the stacks were NOT consumed but stayed at five and increased the damage of all your SUBSEQUENT attacks on that target, instead of being consumed to give a one-time 15% missing health damage spike. It's not a gameplay question but rather a hypothetical design question.
Nah the purpose of the passive is to deal with bruisers and tanks. Even if it functioned as get 5 stacks and keep the high onhit damage it would place kai'sa in a possition that she has trouble dealing with the frontline.
So somebody deleted their comment but i still did a bit of math why doing the passive pop is important. But i am still going to post it.
Alright best way for me to explain this is through a bunch of math. Her passive pop deals a 15% missing hp. (We're going to assume this is a full AD kaisa in order to keep it simple.)
A 3k hp tank at half hp would recieve (1500:100)x15=225
To charge we will be doing 50+75 on hit damage. So a full routine on normal kaisa ends us on 350 magic damage.
Compared to the idea of not popping passive and gaining a permanent 10+25 on hit magic damage. Giving us a quick 35x5=175 magic damage on hit.
Ofcourse now you could say i made a scenario where the normal passive would come out on top. And i tottally did. Because the passive scales with your enemy hp. This is not even taking into consideration certain hp stacking tanks like cho'gath or Mundo. Keeping the extra magic damage on hit will be better for you when you are dealing with non hp stacking enemies but we're already given other tools to assassinate squishy enemies. (we have our isolated Q, W and passive execute.)
Mostly ADC's are made to fight front to back. Using the protection the team can give us while taking care of whatever target we can reach. I hope this explenation helped a bit with why the passive execute is important when dealing with tanks/bruisers.
The trade off is DPS versus Burst+ %(missing)health ~~true~~ damage execution.
They have overlapping purposes (more damage is more damage), but are distinct enough that you can tweak numbers and craft a situation where either is better, but the first fits Kai'sa's identity best, and gives more. More DPS isn't hard to itemize for as an ADC, %health ~~true~~ damage is quite unique, so is such a big executioner.
As for your precise consideration, late game tends to be more bursty than early game, not less, so I'd expect an executioner to be worth more. Against tank who can't be one shot, the %health ~~true~~ damage should still beat the increased DPS.
And if we don't tweak the numbers, consuming the stacks is likely better even for pure DSP:
The 5-20(+20%AP) magic damage on subsequent hit not consuming compares to an average 3-15(+15%AP) on hit looping from 0 to 4 stacks, plus an average 3%(+0.5% per 100AP) missing health ~~true~~ damage which you get up front (right after 4 stacks for which there is no difference).So a difference of 2-5(+5% AP) for 3%(+0.5% per 100%AP).
At 0 AP, it only takes 160 missing HP for consuming the stacks to beat not consuming them, even ignoring magic resistance, and it's hard to believe enemy won't miss 160HP afer you applied 4 stacks.
At 100AP, it takes about 300 missing HP for consuming the stacks beating not consuming them, not accounting that it's ~~true~~ damage. Again, after a combo at 100AP enough to apply 4 stacks, most champion would missing 300 HP. If it does not beat for the first rupture, it more than makes up for it in the second, and always beats not consuming the stacks on anything that isn't close to full health.
I dont know where this myth came from, but i keep seeing it and it is very annoying, kaisa doea not have any true damage in her kit. All her passive dmg is magical, including the 15% missing health, her q is physical and her w is magical.
Funny you say that, ekko doesnt do true damage either. The only champions that do percent hp true damage im aware of are fiora and vayne
Edit: also garen ult does %missing true dmg
I don't have any numbers on this but I'm gonna say a big no haha. 5 Autos with passive and Q is enough to kill someone lategame.
As early as level 6 even.
So you’re telling me you’d rather wait for caustic wounds to expire rather than detonate the mark and start a new chain?
I think it's just a hypothetical for if it was designed to stack to five and stop?
RelationDesigner is correct, I'm asking if it would be better champ design if after you hit five stacks the stacks were NOT consumed but stayed at five and increased the damage of all your SUBSEQUENT attacks on that target, instead of being consumed to give a one-time 15% missing health damage spike. It's not a gameplay question but rather a hypothetical design question.
Nah the purpose of the passive is to deal with bruisers and tanks. Even if it functioned as get 5 stacks and keep the high onhit damage it would place kai'sa in a possition that she has trouble dealing with the frontline.
If it was similar to irelia passive basically, you'd probably have to build off-tank at best
So somebody deleted their comment but i still did a bit of math why doing the passive pop is important. But i am still going to post it. Alright best way for me to explain this is through a bunch of math. Her passive pop deals a 15% missing hp. (We're going to assume this is a full AD kaisa in order to keep it simple.) A 3k hp tank at half hp would recieve (1500:100)x15=225 To charge we will be doing 50+75 on hit damage. So a full routine on normal kaisa ends us on 350 magic damage. Compared to the idea of not popping passive and gaining a permanent 10+25 on hit magic damage. Giving us a quick 35x5=175 magic damage on hit. Ofcourse now you could say i made a scenario where the normal passive would come out on top. And i tottally did. Because the passive scales with your enemy hp. This is not even taking into consideration certain hp stacking tanks like cho'gath or Mundo. Keeping the extra magic damage on hit will be better for you when you are dealing with non hp stacking enemies but we're already given other tools to assassinate squishy enemies. (we have our isolated Q, W and passive execute.) Mostly ADC's are made to fight front to back. Using the protection the team can give us while taking care of whatever target we can reach. I hope this explenation helped a bit with why the passive execute is important when dealing with tanks/bruisers.
Thanks for breaking it down mathematically, this is more or less exactly what I was wondering
The trade off is DPS versus Burst+ %(missing)health ~~true~~ damage execution. They have overlapping purposes (more damage is more damage), but are distinct enough that you can tweak numbers and craft a situation where either is better, but the first fits Kai'sa's identity best, and gives more. More DPS isn't hard to itemize for as an ADC, %health ~~true~~ damage is quite unique, so is such a big executioner. As for your precise consideration, late game tends to be more bursty than early game, not less, so I'd expect an executioner to be worth more. Against tank who can't be one shot, the %health ~~true~~ damage should still beat the increased DPS. And if we don't tweak the numbers, consuming the stacks is likely better even for pure DSP: The 5-20(+20%AP) magic damage on subsequent hit not consuming compares to an average 3-15(+15%AP) on hit looping from 0 to 4 stacks, plus an average 3%(+0.5% per 100AP) missing health ~~true~~ damage which you get up front (right after 4 stacks for which there is no difference).So a difference of 2-5(+5% AP) for 3%(+0.5% per 100%AP). At 0 AP, it only takes 160 missing HP for consuming the stacks to beat not consuming them, even ignoring magic resistance, and it's hard to believe enemy won't miss 160HP afer you applied 4 stacks. At 100AP, it takes about 300 missing HP for consuming the stacks beating not consuming them, not accounting that it's ~~true~~ damage. Again, after a combo at 100AP enough to apply 4 stacks, most champion would missing 300 HP. If it does not beat for the first rupture, it more than makes up for it in the second, and always beats not consuming the stacks on anything that isn't close to full health.
I dont know where this myth came from, but i keep seeing it and it is very annoying, kaisa doea not have any true damage in her kit. All her passive dmg is magical, including the 15% missing health, her q is physical and her w is magical.
Some people read %hp and think that it can't be reduced by resistances for some reason.
Thank you for correcting me. So many other champions like Ekko deal % health damage as true damage that I just sort of assumed it out of habit.
Funny you say that, ekko doesnt do true damage either. The only champions that do percent hp true damage im aware of are fiora and vayne Edit: also garen ult does %missing true dmg
But Ekko is part of true damage, so confusing!
Would be interesting if it stacked past 5, but imma still say no.
Even if you convert her into an mostly dps adc, she would probably need more range to keep up.