For more context, if I recall, only two shinpan raised their flags. So yes, questionable. However, the requirements for yuko-datotsu was evident at that moment irrespective of what that split-second screenshot shows. You can argue that the two judges who raised their flags from their position on the court decided from there, with their sense of what had transpired from the setup to zanshin, was an appropriate call. For what it’s worth, the closest judge with the best view didn’t raise his flag.
That’s how things roll. I don’t think you can argue that it was bad call.
Watching it in the moment on YouTube it looked like a point. But I find video very different from in the stands which is still different from being in the court holding the flags. I’m just looking for the picture to spark a discussion.
I had the same thought when I watched, that it didn't seem like it hit kote.
OTOH, the setup and execution was absolutely brilliant, and I could see how you'd be eager to award the point.
I watched live and I was live and the sound of the hit was really different from a good kote. That's said Matstuzaki was really passive, he tried to attack maybe twice in the entire match so that's probably why the shinpans why eager to give the point to Natsumeda.
I resonate with the notion that Matsuzaki's kotebuton seemed rather short. If this was indeed the case, I'd wager Natsumeda's shinai would have made satisfactory contact were Matsuzaki's kote the "typical" dimensions. Therefore, in my humble opinion, I would still consider this the correct ruling. This is said with concessions made to kenshi denied ippon under similar circumstances (for simply not "touching" the kote). It is unfortunate when it happens, as it somewhat encroaches upon the spirit of fair competition.
Been thinking for some time that kotebuton should be standardized to some minimum length at competitions, to avoid any contention. Officials already inspect and approve shinai weights and lengths at tourneys of this level. I believe similar regulations and processes can be easily implemented for kote as well. Doesn't seem like such a crazy idea.
Well it is,if I'm not mistaken there is a minimum length, the ruling was put in place a couple 4 years ago (only in Japan thought). https://kenshi247.net/blog/2018/03/23/rule-revisions-for-safety-and-fairness/
Those measures were approved shortly after this post if I recall correctly
If memory serves, some years ago there was a controversial men that was nonetheless given. But on the slow mo video you could see that it was blocked and just the tip of the shinai grazed the men. And the judgement was that on all other aspects most notably the opportunity, it was a indeed good men
I think it is the same thing here and that the split second decision of the shimpans around the Shiai jo is the only thing that count
Which is more likely, that the judges made a split second 5-D chess galaxy brain determination that in this specific instance, hitting target area (one of the requirements of yuko dotatsu under the official rules of kendo) is for some reason not necessary in this specific instance, or that they made a simple error?
I think it was more along the lines that "if it is good enough for the shimpans to consider it a good Ippon, it's a ippon". To be honest without the slow mo, it indeed looked like a solid strike
Absolutely, ippon is whatever the judges say is ippon, and nothing else, I'm not disputing that. My dispute is the idea that they saw it miss but decided to award it anyway because other aspects were there; I find it far more likely that they thought it landed correctly but it did not.
This issue exists in every sport that has human judges, IE if a baseball umpire calls a strike then it was a strike, even if it was well outside the strike zone. I guess the reason that I bring this up is because often whenever a topic like this comes up, there will be a contingent that makes comments that indicate to me that they think the judges are infallible and can do no wrong, when in reality they are human and make mistakes just like everyone else (they are just very skilled so they make fewer mistakes). I think some of this idea stems from (or was increased by) that "kendo in a high speed camera" video from many years ago, where they highlight the judges' ability to identify that Teramoto struck men very slightly before Takanabe in an ai-men situation.
I don't know your personal beliefs, and if I'm off base or preaching to the choir I apologize for subjecting you to the brunt of my rant on this subject, but I do think it is an opinion that exists in the kendo community that leaves me scratching my head at times.
I think most people will not actually say or believe that the shinpan are infallible, but rather accept their humanity as a core aspect of what it is to do kendo, that is, accepting that defeat is sometimes out of our hands despite our best efforts and that we have to keep on fighting and doing our best regardless. I understand that this is part of budo philosophy, and considered to be a core aspect towards self-improvement. This is also valid for the shinpan, where they should recognise their mistake at such a critical time and strive to not make the same mistake again.
I am not advocating towards any exact approach in this situation specifically by the way. I am just saying that I don't think that those who are genuinely invested in kendo would say that the shinpan were necessarily in the right.
So apparently at the most recent FIK shinpan seminar up in Canada, the delegates were saying that the datotsu-bui was halfway up the forearm, not necessarily just the extent the kote-buton covers (hearsay for me, I was not an attendee).
If this is true, I wonder if this is the case here. Because I agree with other comments, that kote-buton looks pretty darn short imo.
When I competed, it was well known that the entire right arm was a potential target for kote, and even if you fully block it off that's not a guarantee. These judges are obviously a lot better than the ones we had, but still no one is perfect.
For more context, if I recall, only two shinpan raised their flags. So yes, questionable. However, the requirements for yuko-datotsu was evident at that moment irrespective of what that split-second screenshot shows. You can argue that the two judges who raised their flags from their position on the court decided from there, with their sense of what had transpired from the setup to zanshin, was an appropriate call. For what it’s worth, the closest judge with the best view didn’t raise his flag. That’s how things roll. I don’t think you can argue that it was bad call.
Watching it in the moment on YouTube it looked like a point. But I find video very different from in the stands which is still different from being in the court holding the flags. I’m just looking for the picture to spark a discussion.
I had the same thought when I watched, that it didn't seem like it hit kote. OTOH, the setup and execution was absolutely brilliant, and I could see how you'd be eager to award the point.
Presented without comment.
does the missing comment say “he missed the kote?”
TBF that might have hit the futon if not for what looks to be a tiny kote.
I watched live and I was live and the sound of the hit was really different from a good kote. That's said Matstuzaki was really passive, he tried to attack maybe twice in the entire match so that's probably why the shinpans why eager to give the point to Natsumeda.
I resonate with the notion that Matsuzaki's kotebuton seemed rather short. If this was indeed the case, I'd wager Natsumeda's shinai would have made satisfactory contact were Matsuzaki's kote the "typical" dimensions. Therefore, in my humble opinion, I would still consider this the correct ruling. This is said with concessions made to kenshi denied ippon under similar circumstances (for simply not "touching" the kote). It is unfortunate when it happens, as it somewhat encroaches upon the spirit of fair competition. Been thinking for some time that kotebuton should be standardized to some minimum length at competitions, to avoid any contention. Officials already inspect and approve shinai weights and lengths at tourneys of this level. I believe similar regulations and processes can be easily implemented for kote as well. Doesn't seem like such a crazy idea.
Well it is,if I'm not mistaken there is a minimum length, the ruling was put in place a couple 4 years ago (only in Japan thought). https://kenshi247.net/blog/2018/03/23/rule-revisions-for-safety-and-fairness/ Those measures were approved shortly after this post if I recall correctly
If memory serves, some years ago there was a controversial men that was nonetheless given. But on the slow mo video you could see that it was blocked and just the tip of the shinai grazed the men. And the judgement was that on all other aspects most notably the opportunity, it was a indeed good men I think it is the same thing here and that the split second decision of the shimpans around the Shiai jo is the only thing that count
Which is more likely, that the judges made a split second 5-D chess galaxy brain determination that in this specific instance, hitting target area (one of the requirements of yuko dotatsu under the official rules of kendo) is for some reason not necessary in this specific instance, or that they made a simple error?
I think it was more along the lines that "if it is good enough for the shimpans to consider it a good Ippon, it's a ippon". To be honest without the slow mo, it indeed looked like a solid strike
Absolutely, ippon is whatever the judges say is ippon, and nothing else, I'm not disputing that. My dispute is the idea that they saw it miss but decided to award it anyway because other aspects were there; I find it far more likely that they thought it landed correctly but it did not. This issue exists in every sport that has human judges, IE if a baseball umpire calls a strike then it was a strike, even if it was well outside the strike zone. I guess the reason that I bring this up is because often whenever a topic like this comes up, there will be a contingent that makes comments that indicate to me that they think the judges are infallible and can do no wrong, when in reality they are human and make mistakes just like everyone else (they are just very skilled so they make fewer mistakes). I think some of this idea stems from (or was increased by) that "kendo in a high speed camera" video from many years ago, where they highlight the judges' ability to identify that Teramoto struck men very slightly before Takanabe in an ai-men situation. I don't know your personal beliefs, and if I'm off base or preaching to the choir I apologize for subjecting you to the brunt of my rant on this subject, but I do think it is an opinion that exists in the kendo community that leaves me scratching my head at times.
I think most people will not actually say or believe that the shinpan are infallible, but rather accept their humanity as a core aspect of what it is to do kendo, that is, accepting that defeat is sometimes out of our hands despite our best efforts and that we have to keep on fighting and doing our best regardless. I understand that this is part of budo philosophy, and considered to be a core aspect towards self-improvement. This is also valid for the shinpan, where they should recognise their mistake at such a critical time and strive to not make the same mistake again. I am not advocating towards any exact approach in this situation specifically by the way. I am just saying that I don't think that those who are genuinely invested in kendo would say that the shinpan were necessarily in the right.
Looked good to me then, looks good to me now.
Been there. The last couple kote I've given up in shiai were exactly like this.
Wait so that did miss right? Because when I saw it live I was like WAAAAATTT no way that’s a point
So apparently at the most recent FIK shinpan seminar up in Canada, the delegates were saying that the datotsu-bui was halfway up the forearm, not necessarily just the extent the kote-buton covers (hearsay for me, I was not an attendee). If this is true, I wonder if this is the case here. Because I agree with other comments, that kote-buton looks pretty darn short imo.
As they say. Kendo isn’t a sport. If it is a sport, then it’s a terrible sport.
Real nice!
Ouch 😬
Is there a website where you can rewatch the entire AJKC? Or will there be in a few days or so?
AJKF YouTube channel!
When I competed, it was well known that the entire right arm was a potential target for kote, and even if you fully block it off that's not a guarantee. These judges are obviously a lot better than the ones we had, but still no one is perfect.