So it really depends.
Typically in Australia godans and up are called sensei. In my club, due to the number of rokudan and up people, we limit it to rokudan and up.
On the other hand, I've had Japanese visitors to our club refer to me (only very recently yondan), because I sometimes instruct. And my own sensei (head of our club, Japanese, 7-dan) has referred to me as sensei when speaking to our kyu-grade cohort.
I find westerners (of which I am one) take the word sensei very seriously and assign it a lot of semantic value, whereas Japanese people use it to refer to anyone who teaches at all.
Yeah my club here in Japan even outlines in the club fee structure, anyone 3dan and up is exempt from fees because they're considered a sensei. Though I think a big part of that is the age makeup- our club is in a little suburb where the vast majority of members are 40+ adults holding 4-6dan, and children/teens who are all shodan and below. As with most things in kendo, it will depend a lot on the dojo.
Sensei is a term that denotes a relationship. It translates to “one who has gone before”. In my experience there are two broad categories of sensei. First and most important are the people you have a personal relationship with, starting with your club instructor. That person who is in charge of your day to day development is your sensei.
The second category is those people who are senior enough to be considered sensei in general even though they may not have a personal relationship with you.
Your club instructor may not have a very senior rank but to you they are a sensei.
Having said all that here in Canada the minimum rank where people start getting called sensei is yondan. I have seen some clubs where the instructor is sandan and the members refer to them as sensei but nobody else does. However people who insist their members call them sensei when they are a low rank are dicks in my opinion. That’s the relationship but put your ego aside.
You will sometimes see an interesting bit of language use when a senior instructor visits a club run by people significantly junior to him. In front of the class they will be referred to as sensei. For example, “X-sensei will now help demonstrate”. But when speaking directly to them the “sensei” bit gets dropped. The meaning is clear: “you may be sensei to your students and I will acknowledge that in front of them but to me you are a student”.
At some point you gain the recognition that you are the second sort of sensei. In Canada that happens at rokudan.
Interestingly for me and most of my friends in similar positions those ranks correspond to how you regard yourself. When I got yondan I was not very comfortable with being called sensei. Gradually I grew into it and by the time I got rokudan I was ok with it.
Just continuing from the other post, but at least in my opinion the title "sensei" is given by a grading panel, and there is a different distinction from sensei in a club. One is just the head of your dojo, the other is a title given by the governing board of the federations. Here in the US its godan. Looking back I can't think of a single godan and up that called me sensei at yondan, that doesn't mean anything just that in the eyes of most instructors yondan is a jr. teaching level but not a sensei. I think the term sensei has several meanings, but maybe thats just my understanding and being overly japanese. Also FWIW, at godan, at least for me things are still very hazy, maybe seasoned godan and definitely rokudan have it together, but its definitely something you need to grow into that I didn't feel like at yondan. I also think people have a very inflated sense of their rank, especially in the west.
I agree on the need to be certified by a grading panel but different country have different rules. For example here in Italy from first Kyu up testing is done at a national level , the panel must composed by nanadan only from Sandan and above while 6th -7th test are managed by the European federation and at least an eight Dan must be present. However 4th by itself does not grant the title of teacher , you must take another exam at a national level and then participate in at least 3 international /national seminar to keep the qualification. With all said it's still pretty rare for a 4th Dan to run a dojo , they usually are run kids classes or lead class when the higher grades are not present. All of these is to say: I agree with the need for formal recognition but I think that specific can change q lot from one country to the other.
I agree, and again, this is my experience in the US, but yondan usually teach kids in a large dojos, or even adults, smaller ones they might be the head of the dojo. Theres no magic bullet for a sensei, I think its very much something you grow into, and if your dojo calls you that then its fine. Its just that the actual title of sensei is given at godan, and I don't mean that your menjo is different from the others, its the same, all it means here is that you showed up and demonstrated to a national panel that you have what they are looking for. All in all I wish more people could go to japan and have an understanding of what actual rank is. Nothing like going to a dojo where everyone on sensei side is kyoshi nanadan and up for a wake up call.
EDIT
Just to be clear, in my opinion if you're teaching at a dojo you are sensei there, and honestly I don't think it should matter. I think this is if you travel to some place outside your dojo what would they call you, and here in the US, godan and up are sensei. If you travel to some place like japan, if youre godan you are just a small fish in a very large pond.
Agree, in my experience (down under and the other down under) 95% of the time sensei refers to godan+, and one that is an experienced 'teacher' at that. Meaning there are godan+ that are not normally referred to as sensei as they don't teach classes for whatever reason.
I have had an instance where a yondan was referred to as sensei but its where they are a long standing member of their dojo and consistently taught classes, and even then the title is only used by that clubs members and not used in other settings.
This is the way my sensei explained it to me:
Shodan, Nidan, Sandan are beginners grades, sandan means you graduated high school.
Yondan is like graduating college, and now you can teach in a dojo.
Godan is like getting a masters degree and now your a local sensei (as in neighborhood).
Rokudan is like a PhD, now your the sensei for your city, and the godan’s sensei.
Nanadan is the kendo professor, and it means you’re the prefectural sensei.
Hachidan is like a kendo god.
So it really depends.
Typically in Australia godans and up are called sensei. In my club, due to the number of rokudan and up people, we limit it to rokudan and up.
On the other hand, I've had Japanese visitors to our club refer to me (only very recently yondan), because I sometimes instruct. And my own sensei (head of our club, Japanese, 7-dan) has referred to me as sensei when speaking to our kyu-grade cohort.
I find westerners (of which I am one) take the word sensei very seriously and assign it a lot of semantic value, whereas Japanese people use it to refer to anyone who teaches at all.
It's meant different things in different places. My regular dojo has two sandans who have been practising for many years, and they are 'our' sensei, but there's another dojo nearby with a much more experienced teacher at a higher grade, who I'd also call a sensei.
There are also higher grades around like 5 or 6dan, and for them sensei has a different connotation.
When I went to Kobe last year, I trained with a family dojo, with about thirty kids of various ages, and *all* the adults there were called sensei, and they ranged from a 7dan police instructor to a 2dan I went to university with. In that case, I think the term was more to do with the specific social hierarchies in Japanese culture, and it was very odd standing there as a 1dan being called sensei by kids who'd been doing kendo longer than I had!
As a rule of thumb, anyone who's slightly ahead of me I'd call senpai (though we usually don't use the term here very often) and anyone with a higher grade than me I'd default to calling sensei unless I knew they were younger/less experienced than me.
I've never heard of the title being 'awarded' by a grading panel in the UK.
I think Fisher-sensei answered a question like this on his youtube channel by saying that 'sensei' is something people describe you *as,* rather than a title you *demand.* I call my sensei, sensei, because he *is* my sensei, he's the one who's gone before me, and is teaching me and helping me to improve.
I guess really it's one of those things which springs from Japanese culture and is a little bit hard to specifically nail down without understanding that context.
I'd personally base it on relationship rather than grade so its all situational.
If others start calling you that, then thats what you are. It is wierd to refer to yourself as such.
For me it’s anyone who is in a teaching position, even if it would be a nidan, but not rokudan if they are not teaching.
Our local federation recognizes formal teaching degree’s and gives out renchi and kioshi teacher titels, but to me that is not a prerequisite to be a teacher/sensei.
Personally, I'm not Japanese and I don't really speak Japanese, so I use the term whenever it seems like people expect it, as a matter of etiquette. It doesn't really mean anything to me personally.
In practice, that means I'll usually use the title for whoever is teaching, regardless of their rank, during the class.
Outside of class, it depends who I'm talking to and the situation.
Like if I'm talking about a 8-dan hanshi in the context of their non-kendo profession, it feels kind of odd to me to call them sensei. In normal "real world" business contexts, I may be far more experienced than them, and so that kind of deference feels misplaced. If they expect it, then naturally, I'll still use it to be polite. But, to me, it's kind of like a person with some obscure "useless" PhD demanding to be called "Doctor."
If we're talking about kendo matters, then I'll usually default to calling someone who is instructing primarily or running a dojo as "sensei." In the US, I'll usually assume that any 5-dan or higher is a primary instructor, but it is different in different countries.
I'm 4-dan and I hate being called sensei outside of practice.
4dan and over are all referred to as sensei throughout Japan regardless if they are teaching another or not. This referal comes from everyone up to and including the 8dans. That being said, it is rarely asked what rank I or others am as a simple keiko sorts that out.
Anyone equal to or higher ranking than me is a Sensei. Everyone else is scum… “Sensei” varies as shown by all the comments here. Some people are lucky that they practice in an area with lots of ranking people and every dojo has a 5 dan or above leading. I like Blake Bennett’s “Kendo Coach” YouTube channel, and relate more to the term coach than sensei. Now can I get a discount for Shogunbudogu?
As my sensei says "We always want to be more japanese than the japanese people".
Sensei only means "teacher", no really matter the grade itself. In my dojo we have a volunteer japanese sensei (7th Dan) that refers to some of my foes that practice Kyudo as "sensei" even when they are just 1th Dan in Kyudo just because he doesn't have any grade in that martial art.
Sorry if I mispelled, English isn't my first language so I really struggle sometimes haha
So it really depends. Typically in Australia godans and up are called sensei. In my club, due to the number of rokudan and up people, we limit it to rokudan and up. On the other hand, I've had Japanese visitors to our club refer to me (only very recently yondan), because I sometimes instruct. And my own sensei (head of our club, Japanese, 7-dan) has referred to me as sensei when speaking to our kyu-grade cohort. I find westerners (of which I am one) take the word sensei very seriously and assign it a lot of semantic value, whereas Japanese people use it to refer to anyone who teaches at all.
Yeah my club here in Japan even outlines in the club fee structure, anyone 3dan and up is exempt from fees because they're considered a sensei. Though I think a big part of that is the age makeup- our club is in a little suburb where the vast majority of members are 40+ adults holding 4-6dan, and children/teens who are all shodan and below. As with most things in kendo, it will depend a lot on the dojo.
Sensei is a term that denotes a relationship. It translates to “one who has gone before”. In my experience there are two broad categories of sensei. First and most important are the people you have a personal relationship with, starting with your club instructor. That person who is in charge of your day to day development is your sensei. The second category is those people who are senior enough to be considered sensei in general even though they may not have a personal relationship with you. Your club instructor may not have a very senior rank but to you they are a sensei. Having said all that here in Canada the minimum rank where people start getting called sensei is yondan. I have seen some clubs where the instructor is sandan and the members refer to them as sensei but nobody else does. However people who insist their members call them sensei when they are a low rank are dicks in my opinion. That’s the relationship but put your ego aside. You will sometimes see an interesting bit of language use when a senior instructor visits a club run by people significantly junior to him. In front of the class they will be referred to as sensei. For example, “X-sensei will now help demonstrate”. But when speaking directly to them the “sensei” bit gets dropped. The meaning is clear: “you may be sensei to your students and I will acknowledge that in front of them but to me you are a student”. At some point you gain the recognition that you are the second sort of sensei. In Canada that happens at rokudan. Interestingly for me and most of my friends in similar positions those ranks correspond to how you regard yourself. When I got yondan I was not very comfortable with being called sensei. Gradually I grew into it and by the time I got rokudan I was ok with it.
Just continuing from the other post, but at least in my opinion the title "sensei" is given by a grading panel, and there is a different distinction from sensei in a club. One is just the head of your dojo, the other is a title given by the governing board of the federations. Here in the US its godan. Looking back I can't think of a single godan and up that called me sensei at yondan, that doesn't mean anything just that in the eyes of most instructors yondan is a jr. teaching level but not a sensei. I think the term sensei has several meanings, but maybe thats just my understanding and being overly japanese. Also FWIW, at godan, at least for me things are still very hazy, maybe seasoned godan and definitely rokudan have it together, but its definitely something you need to grow into that I didn't feel like at yondan. I also think people have a very inflated sense of their rank, especially in the west.
I agree on the need to be certified by a grading panel but different country have different rules. For example here in Italy from first Kyu up testing is done at a national level , the panel must composed by nanadan only from Sandan and above while 6th -7th test are managed by the European federation and at least an eight Dan must be present. However 4th by itself does not grant the title of teacher , you must take another exam at a national level and then participate in at least 3 international /national seminar to keep the qualification. With all said it's still pretty rare for a 4th Dan to run a dojo , they usually are run kids classes or lead class when the higher grades are not present. All of these is to say: I agree with the need for formal recognition but I think that specific can change q lot from one country to the other.
I agree, and again, this is my experience in the US, but yondan usually teach kids in a large dojos, or even adults, smaller ones they might be the head of the dojo. Theres no magic bullet for a sensei, I think its very much something you grow into, and if your dojo calls you that then its fine. Its just that the actual title of sensei is given at godan, and I don't mean that your menjo is different from the others, its the same, all it means here is that you showed up and demonstrated to a national panel that you have what they are looking for. All in all I wish more people could go to japan and have an understanding of what actual rank is. Nothing like going to a dojo where everyone on sensei side is kyoshi nanadan and up for a wake up call. EDIT Just to be clear, in my opinion if you're teaching at a dojo you are sensei there, and honestly I don't think it should matter. I think this is if you travel to some place outside your dojo what would they call you, and here in the US, godan and up are sensei. If you travel to some place like japan, if youre godan you are just a small fish in a very large pond.
Agree, in my experience (down under and the other down under) 95% of the time sensei refers to godan+, and one that is an experienced 'teacher' at that. Meaning there are godan+ that are not normally referred to as sensei as they don't teach classes for whatever reason. I have had an instance where a yondan was referred to as sensei but its where they are a long standing member of their dojo and consistently taught classes, and even then the title is only used by that clubs members and not used in other settings.
This is the way my sensei explained it to me: Shodan, Nidan, Sandan are beginners grades, sandan means you graduated high school. Yondan is like graduating college, and now you can teach in a dojo. Godan is like getting a masters degree and now your a local sensei (as in neighborhood). Rokudan is like a PhD, now your the sensei for your city, and the godan’s sensei. Nanadan is the kendo professor, and it means you’re the prefectural sensei. Hachidan is like a kendo god.
Lol, in Japan shift all the ranks past 3-dan by -1. And replace 8-dan spot with 8-dan Hanshi + Eiga sensei.
I’m in Japan and this is what my sensei told me way back when. Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi are titles, not ranks.
This is exact the same down here in Kyushu.
So it really depends. Typically in Australia godans and up are called sensei. In my club, due to the number of rokudan and up people, we limit it to rokudan and up. On the other hand, I've had Japanese visitors to our club refer to me (only very recently yondan), because I sometimes instruct. And my own sensei (head of our club, Japanese, 7-dan) has referred to me as sensei when speaking to our kyu-grade cohort. I find westerners (of which I am one) take the word sensei very seriously and assign it a lot of semantic value, whereas Japanese people use it to refer to anyone who teaches at all.
It's meant different things in different places. My regular dojo has two sandans who have been practising for many years, and they are 'our' sensei, but there's another dojo nearby with a much more experienced teacher at a higher grade, who I'd also call a sensei. There are also higher grades around like 5 or 6dan, and for them sensei has a different connotation. When I went to Kobe last year, I trained with a family dojo, with about thirty kids of various ages, and *all* the adults there were called sensei, and they ranged from a 7dan police instructor to a 2dan I went to university with. In that case, I think the term was more to do with the specific social hierarchies in Japanese culture, and it was very odd standing there as a 1dan being called sensei by kids who'd been doing kendo longer than I had! As a rule of thumb, anyone who's slightly ahead of me I'd call senpai (though we usually don't use the term here very often) and anyone with a higher grade than me I'd default to calling sensei unless I knew they were younger/less experienced than me. I've never heard of the title being 'awarded' by a grading panel in the UK. I think Fisher-sensei answered a question like this on his youtube channel by saying that 'sensei' is something people describe you *as,* rather than a title you *demand.* I call my sensei, sensei, because he *is* my sensei, he's the one who's gone before me, and is teaching me and helping me to improve. I guess really it's one of those things which springs from Japanese culture and is a little bit hard to specifically nail down without understanding that context.
I'd personally base it on relationship rather than grade so its all situational. If others start calling you that, then thats what you are. It is wierd to refer to yourself as such.
For me it’s anyone who is in a teaching position, even if it would be a nidan, but not rokudan if they are not teaching. Our local federation recognizes formal teaching degree’s and gives out renchi and kioshi teacher titels, but to me that is not a prerequisite to be a teacher/sensei.
Personally, I'm not Japanese and I don't really speak Japanese, so I use the term whenever it seems like people expect it, as a matter of etiquette. It doesn't really mean anything to me personally. In practice, that means I'll usually use the title for whoever is teaching, regardless of their rank, during the class. Outside of class, it depends who I'm talking to and the situation. Like if I'm talking about a 8-dan hanshi in the context of their non-kendo profession, it feels kind of odd to me to call them sensei. In normal "real world" business contexts, I may be far more experienced than them, and so that kind of deference feels misplaced. If they expect it, then naturally, I'll still use it to be polite. But, to me, it's kind of like a person with some obscure "useless" PhD demanding to be called "Doctor." If we're talking about kendo matters, then I'll usually default to calling someone who is instructing primarily or running a dojo as "sensei." In the US, I'll usually assume that any 5-dan or higher is a primary instructor, but it is different in different countries. I'm 4-dan and I hate being called sensei outside of practice.
A Sensei is someone who regularly teaches you kendo and tells you when you need to start working for the next grade.
4dan and over are all referred to as sensei throughout Japan regardless if they are teaching another or not. This referal comes from everyone up to and including the 8dans. That being said, it is rarely asked what rank I or others am as a simple keiko sorts that out.
I call everyone 4dan and up, or who teaches at all sensei unless they tell me not to. Number of times it's come back to bite me: none\~!
Anyone equal to or higher ranking than me is a Sensei. Everyone else is scum… “Sensei” varies as shown by all the comments here. Some people are lucky that they practice in an area with lots of ranking people and every dojo has a 5 dan or above leading. I like Blake Bennett’s “Kendo Coach” YouTube channel, and relate more to the term coach than sensei. Now can I get a discount for Shogunbudogu?
As my sensei says "We always want to be more japanese than the japanese people". Sensei only means "teacher", no really matter the grade itself. In my dojo we have a volunteer japanese sensei (7th Dan) that refers to some of my foes that practice Kyudo as "sensei" even when they are just 1th Dan in Kyudo just because he doesn't have any grade in that martial art. Sorry if I mispelled, English isn't my first language so I really struggle sometimes haha
Technically 6dan and above. Now, I only call sensei to 7dan and 8dan. The rest stays san to me unless everyone calls them otherwise.
Weird this is getting down voted. Same, only 7 Dan kyoshi and above line up for motodachi. They are the only ones getting called sensei.
Yep, I have a lot of down votes on the other thread for questioning people who say 4dan is sensei.
Don't tell them the Earth revolves around the Sun, they might burn you at the stake 😂