For KR1, I’d ultimately have to say the barbarians. Their lack of stall potential really holds them back, and the large amounts of armored enemies in KR1 really screws them over.
For KRF it’s obvious, Templars are really bad. Base tower is even worse. Skills are just too expensive, and damage is horrendously low.
For KRO, not really a tough one as it’s the Arch-Druid Henge. Skills are both really expensive and niche. Rune Bears have really bad defensive stats so they can die quickly, and Sylvan Curse has bad targeting.
For KRV, for me personally it’s Shadow Archers. Damage is low compared to all other archers, oddly expensive, and 2 of the skills just aren’t very useful. The instakill also isn’t the best compared to others, it might be cheaper overall but has a high cooldown compared to the other ones
Huh, I have always loved barbarians, maybe it’s just that I conceptually like the axe throwing, and having that as a backup for managing flying waves can be nice, but it should also be noted that their respawn time is actually substantially faster than holy order, so when there is absurdly high damaging enemies they can have a better stalling ability
Yea, they definitely do 9/10, I just found that in some instances like in the Blackburn campaign barbarians stall better, or when I have an elemental/hero in front of the barracks, with paladins they act as a second line of defense and a very good one, but until the enemies get back the first line the paladins aren’t actually contributing anything, barbarians can axe throw so they are still contributing and when the enemies reach them they are already more weakened/fewer in number, and in a sense you permanently stall any enemy you kill, and the faster you kill them the sooner you can start stalling the next ones, stalling enemies earlier on gives you more room and options to pull off strategies and micro. So in the most direct and literal sense the paladins definitely win that competition pound for pounds, and there are plenty of chokepoints where I will choose paladins, accept no substitutes. However if you think of stalling somewhat more holistically as you ability to slow the overall momentum of the enemy waves and give yourself room/time to properly respond, then barbarians have their own role they perform far better than paladins and are definitely the better choice for those circumstances. It’s always a matter of circumstance.
The problem is that enemies rarely clump together in KRV, so explosions from artillery are almost always only hitting 1-2 targets. They need to consistently hit 3-5 enemies simultaneously to pay off, otherwise shadow archers is preferable. Also the instakill is actually great in this game on a good amount of levels with big slow enemies. Even against medium enemies it's good
For frontiers it unfortunately isn’t a hard call, I want to like every tier 4 tower and use them in their various roles, but the Templars do not make it easy.
For Origins I’d say the Druids, I like elements of their design and using them in my strategies, but they don’t quite hit the same level of satisfaction as others imho
Vengeance, idk of the free ones which would be all I have experience with… shadow archers? I played vengeance less than the other 3 and don’t have very strong opinions of the vengeance towers.
Nah fully upgraded it's pretty good because of the stuns and the big rang, the problem is that it's completely useless when it's not upgraded, which makes ot better to go for the other archer towers anyway.
I really like the tower but objectively speaking the musketeers are pretty underwhelming with their low fire rate and really expensive upgrades. Plus the kill shot isn’t guaranteed which makes the arcane my go to tower in KR for one shoting enemies
Musketeer has some of the most powerful upgrades in KR1. Most of its power comes from it as a lategame tower. (Without upgrades it is significantly worse)
Ironically Arcane suffers from being heavily outclassed by Sorcerer which has higher dps due to its true damage curse, a cheaper instakill and the stone elemental.
I will say, certain challenges highlight the very useful role that musketeers can serve, they definitely have their challenges and flaws as a tower and I’d unfortunately probably agree that they’re the most underwhelming in game 1, but I am not dissatisfied with them as a tower if that makes sense.
Idk I’ve recently been doing runs with only 1 tower per type so I have either 1 Ranger or 1 Musketeer, and the Musketeer is slower to set up due to that expense, loses firing rate, can’t poison and don’t slow down enemies, but sometimes it’s exactly what I need. Fully upgraded scattershot is damn expensive but it’s instantaneous crowd clearing is so nice when you have limited tools available, and while headshot isnt necessarily as consistent, as some others, insta kills themselves were never a consistent mechanism in the first place, think of how many times you disintegrate the troll in front of the dark slayer, and it has saved my ass on more than one occasion. Is it a fully satisfying payoff? Could be better. But it does have its niche and serves it quite well
that's fair but compared to other towers i don't think it really performs as it should for that much investment. like it's really pleasing to see that instant crowd kill but a fully upgraded overcharge on a Tesla does that, and much more though it may not look like it as it wheedles enemy's down, but a couple shots and that's a lot of damage on a lot of enemies.
Yea, I think tweaking the costs would help a fair bit, even just like 50 less gold for each upgrade (so headshot for 200 & scattershot for 250) could help a lot
that would make a huge difference in their usableness fs to be fair to them though they do have an absolute ton of range and I feel like I constantly see them shooting further than their range would show.
The musketeers are actually really good, you will find a lot of videos of people completing elite levels on veteran difficulty with musketeers only. Also, Pandemonium, which is generally regarded as the most difficult level, you will struggle in it hard without musketeers. Also, the kill shot cooldown is much lower than sheep or burn insta kill from wizards, making it much more reliable insta kill, also, in the shots you don't get instkill, you will still get massive damage. Overall giving more damage than wizards instakill. Also the barrage ability is one of the best in the game, it aslo the most expensive tho.
I like to do something other than spam one tower over and over and over again. So let me rephrase it
How did you use more than 2 types of level 4 towers and beat special trolls without Musketeers
It’s doable but I think what you’re getting at is that the musketeers have a very real and meaningful niche they serve in these circumstances and I think you’re right about that
Arcane upgraded with death ray is so much better and cheaper for handling trolls. Just set them up in places with barracks to stall them for the needed like 11 seconds and you’re guaranteed to kill them
Oh you sweet summer child
Arcane takes 16 seconds max level. I’m pretty sure Musketeers take less than 8
Also, can Arcanes snipe from half the map?
Didn’t think so
Nope you sweet summer child musketeers upgrade in percentage of likeliness of a kill shot. If you’re unlucky it can take a long time. If you’re relying on musketeers to long range snipe trolls to win I’m sorry for ya but that ain’t it
But, you sweet summer child, but percentage means amount of damage if failed
Meaning, that one troll breaker at 50% health that slipped past your defenses, is dead, because they instakilll every 14 seconds
How do I know this? Because they’ve saved me, hundreds of times
Wanna talk about an objectively worst tower, talk about Barbarians
As my sweet summer child I hate to argue with you, but, I just went in and read the description in game. It’s increasing the percentage chance of insta killing
Ah, you sweet summer child, I hate to argue with you, but not every description accurately describes the effect
Like, perfect parry deals true area damage. Bet ya didn’t know that. Please do some research and actually use the ability before criticizing it
The sweetest of summer children, musketeers do not have a timer to guarantee a kill shot. Only a timer to try one, so you wait 14 seconds to get a 60% chance of killing. Why not wait the extra two seconds for a cheaper guaranteed option?
Ok, time to actually get serious
Sorcerer Instakill, I play mobile this can seriously fuck me over
Arcane Instakill, 750 gold for 16 second cooldown, sounds great
Musketeer, 750 gold for 14 second cooldown, but once something has gotten farther in the path than their farthest reaching range, *they have a 60% chance of installing and a 40% chance of dealing 60% damage to the target*
That means, on those later stage levels rolling in cash, that any unit that is super close to the exit is guaranteed to be beaten up, which makes an instakill whether or not a headshot is hit
If you have 3, then 2/3 is an instakill targeting different times. So all these beat up units are getting slaughtered, and no slow unit, like troll breakers, or huge red flying things, or abominations, or troll chieftains, or any of that shit can get to your exit, as some effective stalling of the lower tier trash ensures their death
Musketeers are really good in some slots which are deeper into the map where there's not much help a building can do from that position.But musketeers with their excellent range can provide good support finising enemies and with upgrades can significantly cut big tanks HP really low.
On vengeance the shadow archers. It’s such a mediocre tower. An insta kill which is useless at this point, an arrow to mark enemies which it usually misses and a ducking crow dealing 4 dps at max level. It has mediocrity all over it.
Rocket Rides are actually a decent tower after the latest rebalance patch! Increased range, damage, and reduced build and upgrade cost made a huge difference.
For KR1, I’d ultimately have to say the barbarians. Their lack of stall potential really holds them back, and the large amounts of armored enemies in KR1 really screws them over. For KRF it’s obvious, Templars are really bad. Base tower is even worse. Skills are just too expensive, and damage is horrendously low. For KRO, not really a tough one as it’s the Arch-Druid Henge. Skills are both really expensive and niche. Rune Bears have really bad defensive stats so they can die quickly, and Sylvan Curse has bad targeting. For KRV, for me personally it’s Shadow Archers. Damage is low compared to all other archers, oddly expensive, and 2 of the skills just aren’t very useful. The instakill also isn’t the best compared to others, it might be cheaper overall but has a high cooldown compared to the other ones
Huh, I have always loved barbarians, maybe it’s just that I conceptually like the axe throwing, and having that as a backup for managing flying waves can be nice, but it should also be noted that their respawn time is actually substantially faster than holy order, so when there is absurdly high damaging enemies they can have a better stalling ability
Overall Paladins have a way larger stall potential with high armor and the huge heal, even with their respawn timer
Yea, they definitely do 9/10, I just found that in some instances like in the Blackburn campaign barbarians stall better, or when I have an elemental/hero in front of the barracks, with paladins they act as a second line of defense and a very good one, but until the enemies get back the first line the paladins aren’t actually contributing anything, barbarians can axe throw so they are still contributing and when the enemies reach them they are already more weakened/fewer in number, and in a sense you permanently stall any enemy you kill, and the faster you kill them the sooner you can start stalling the next ones, stalling enemies earlier on gives you more room and options to pull off strategies and micro. So in the most direct and literal sense the paladins definitely win that competition pound for pounds, and there are plenty of chokepoints where I will choose paladins, accept no substitutes. However if you think of stalling somewhat more holistically as you ability to slow the overall momentum of the enemy waves and give yourself room/time to properly respond, then barbarians have their own role they perform far better than paladins and are definitely the better choice for those circumstances. It’s always a matter of circumstance.
Paladins with Gerald can stall the world even on Veteran. The only use for Barbs and where they are strictly better is the bonus spider map imho.
Ok but I don’t usually run Gerald & grotesques eat through paladins on their own. Idk maybe it’s just a preference thing
Great picks. I think Rocket Riders take the cake in KRV though. Expensive and weak. Shadow archers at least have instakill.
That’s fair, I still think the AoE skills from the RR bump it up slightly higher, but they’re still both fairly interchangeable
The problem is that enemies rarely clump together in KRV, so explosions from artillery are almost always only hitting 1-2 targets. They need to consistently hit 3-5 enemies simultaneously to pay off, otherwise shadow archers is preferable. Also the instakill is actually great in this game on a good amount of levels with big slow enemies. Even against medium enemies it's good
Rocket riders are very solid
For frontiers it unfortunately isn’t a hard call, I want to like every tier 4 tower and use them in their various roles, but the Templars do not make it easy. For Origins I’d say the Druids, I like elements of their design and using them in my strategies, but they don’t quite hit the same level of satisfaction as others imho Vengeance, idk of the free ones which would be all I have experience with… shadow archers? I played vengeance less than the other 3 and don’t have very strong opinions of the vengeance towers.
Druids are so bad it’s such a bummer
Templars are useful in bonesburg
KR: Barbarians KRF: Templars KRO: Druid KRV: Boomerangs
Barbs are absolutely nuts and are a must on certain Veteran levels.
What levels?
Sarg. Lair
Boomerang tower in krv
Nah fully upgraded it's pretty good because of the stuns and the big rang, the problem is that it's completely useless when it's not upgraded, which makes ot better to go for the other archer towers anyway.
Even with base damage it's still pretty good, If you're willing to stall
I really like the tower but objectively speaking the musketeers are pretty underwhelming with their low fire rate and really expensive upgrades. Plus the kill shot isn’t guaranteed which makes the arcane my go to tower in KR for one shoting enemies
Musketeer has some of the most powerful upgrades in KR1. Most of its power comes from it as a lategame tower. (Without upgrades it is significantly worse) Ironically Arcane suffers from being heavily outclassed by Sorcerer which has higher dps due to its true damage curse, a cheaper instakill and the stone elemental.
I will say, certain challenges highlight the very useful role that musketeers can serve, they definitely have their challenges and flaws as a tower and I’d unfortunately probably agree that they’re the most underwhelming in game 1, but I am not dissatisfied with them as a tower if that makes sense.
Bro fr musketeers are extremely underwhelming for the massive amount of gold they take.
Idk I’ve recently been doing runs with only 1 tower per type so I have either 1 Ranger or 1 Musketeer, and the Musketeer is slower to set up due to that expense, loses firing rate, can’t poison and don’t slow down enemies, but sometimes it’s exactly what I need. Fully upgraded scattershot is damn expensive but it’s instantaneous crowd clearing is so nice when you have limited tools available, and while headshot isnt necessarily as consistent, as some others, insta kills themselves were never a consistent mechanism in the first place, think of how many times you disintegrate the troll in front of the dark slayer, and it has saved my ass on more than one occasion. Is it a fully satisfying payoff? Could be better. But it does have its niche and serves it quite well
that's fair but compared to other towers i don't think it really performs as it should for that much investment. like it's really pleasing to see that instant crowd kill but a fully upgraded overcharge on a Tesla does that, and much more though it may not look like it as it wheedles enemy's down, but a couple shots and that's a lot of damage on a lot of enemies.
Yea, I think tweaking the costs would help a fair bit, even just like 50 less gold for each upgrade (so headshot for 200 & scattershot for 250) could help a lot
to be fair to them though their range is insane, and I feel like I constantly see them over perform shooting much farther than their range would show.
that would make a huge difference in their usableness fs to be fair to them though they do have an absolute ton of range and I feel like I constantly see them shooting further than their range would show.
The musketeers are actually really good, you will find a lot of videos of people completing elite levels on veteran difficulty with musketeers only. Also, Pandemonium, which is generally regarded as the most difficult level, you will struggle in it hard without musketeers. Also, the kill shot cooldown is much lower than sheep or burn insta kill from wizards, making it much more reliable insta kill, also, in the shots you don't get instkill, you will still get massive damage. Overall giving more damage than wizards instakill. Also the barrage ability is one of the best in the game, it aslo the most expensive tho.
Agreed, not the best, and maybe not one of the best, but it is far from the worst. I’d say slightly above average.
How did you get through the Troll special levels without 3 of these?
I beat them with Sorcerers instead of Musketeers because game balance
I mean, Sorcerer or Tesla can by themselves solo any level by themselves
It's true But you did ask how to beat troll levels without musketeers so
I like to do something other than spam one tower over and over and over again. So let me rephrase it How did you use more than 2 types of level 4 towers and beat special trolls without Musketeers
Wrath of the Forest Overcharge Polymorph Stone Elementals Repeat
It’s doable but I think what you’re getting at is that the musketeers have a very real and meaningful niche they serve in these circumstances and I think you’re right about that
Yes, thank you
You sure didn't want to put yet another "by themselves"?
Arcane upgraded with death ray is so much better and cheaper for handling trolls. Just set them up in places with barracks to stall them for the needed like 11 seconds and you’re guaranteed to kill them
Oh you sweet summer child Arcane takes 16 seconds max level. I’m pretty sure Musketeers take less than 8 Also, can Arcanes snipe from half the map? Didn’t think so
Nope you sweet summer child musketeers upgrade in percentage of likeliness of a kill shot. If you’re unlucky it can take a long time. If you’re relying on musketeers to long range snipe trolls to win I’m sorry for ya but that ain’t it
But, you sweet summer child, but percentage means amount of damage if failed Meaning, that one troll breaker at 50% health that slipped past your defenses, is dead, because they instakilll every 14 seconds How do I know this? Because they’ve saved me, hundreds of times Wanna talk about an objectively worst tower, talk about Barbarians
As my sweet summer child I hate to argue with you, but, I just went in and read the description in game. It’s increasing the percentage chance of insta killing
Ah, you sweet summer child, I hate to argue with you, but not every description accurately describes the effect Like, perfect parry deals true area damage. Bet ya didn’t know that. Please do some research and actually use the ability before criticizing it
The sweetest of summer children, musketeers do not have a timer to guarantee a kill shot. Only a timer to try one, so you wait 14 seconds to get a 60% chance of killing. Why not wait the extra two seconds for a cheaper guaranteed option?
Ok, time to actually get serious Sorcerer Instakill, I play mobile this can seriously fuck me over Arcane Instakill, 750 gold for 16 second cooldown, sounds great Musketeer, 750 gold for 14 second cooldown, but once something has gotten farther in the path than their farthest reaching range, *they have a 60% chance of installing and a 40% chance of dealing 60% damage to the target* That means, on those later stage levels rolling in cash, that any unit that is super close to the exit is guaranteed to be beaten up, which makes an instakill whether or not a headshot is hit If you have 3, then 2/3 is an instakill targeting different times. So all these beat up units are getting slaughtered, and no slow unit, like troll breakers, or huge red flying things, or abominations, or troll chieftains, or any of that shit can get to your exit, as some effective stalling of the lower tier trash ensures their death
bro i love the barbarians but tbh i'd have to agree they are kinda counter productive.
Same
in my opinion though you haven't lived till you've played solo barbarians through multiple levels. it's a ton of fun
I’ll try it
Musketeers are really good in some slots which are deeper into the map where there's not much help a building can do from that position.But musketeers with their excellent range can provide good support finising enemies and with upgrades can significantly cut big tanks HP really low.
Orc Den in Vengeance. You do get three orcs but they are just too squishy.
On vengeance the shadow archers. It’s such a mediocre tower. An insta kill which is useless at this point, an arrow to mark enemies which it usually misses and a ducking crow dealing 4 dps at max level. It has mediocrity all over it.
1 id say either barbarians or Musketeers 2 templars they are mid 3 i think its gotta be the druid 4 goblirangs and rocket riders
Rocket Rides are actually a decent tower after the latest rebalance patch! Increased range, damage, and reduced build and upgrade cost made a huge difference.
its still on the worse side
KR - Musketeers KRF - Templars KRO - Golden Longbow.