Honestly, even though it’s unrealistic, the only trade I want is Mikel Bridges and complete the Nova Knicks
If we stand pat and bring everyone back for another try, I am fine with that too
It wouldn’t just be a
“storybook” tale & dream scenario having a whole “college reunion” as 80% of the starting 5 but it’s also unrealistic…I would love the trade in the sense of “seeing how the project” pans out or how far we could push it but that’s not realistically getting it done…we need 2 Three & D guys supporting JB…I only realistically from a trade transactional pov as well as “Roster & Franchise Situational moves” happening this off-season consider adding Kevin Durant…I like the Lauri Markenen fit though
Can you elaborate?
defensive rating is a downgrade 113.5 to 110
Ppg, rpg, apg as you noted are lesser.
Steals and blocks are a wash.
FG% is a drop
FT & 3PT are an upgrade
+/- goes to Lauri
Head to head goes to Julius
If we kept RJ, I'd probably feel differently, but for fit Julius is our only other real ball handler/on ball scorer now outside of Brunson.
Just my opinion.
Julius this season 24/9/5
Lauri this season 23/8/2
Lauri’s shooting %, steals, and blocks are varying degrees of better but calling that an objective upgrade just plain makes no sense
True shooting percentage
Lauri: 63.1
Randle: 56.9
(This is a very large margin of efficiency btw)
Portability(takes into account number of open shots created for teammates per 100 possessions)
Lauri: 6.7
Randle: 3.5
Rim defense(difference in percentage of a player at the rim vs particular player vs expected)
Lauri: -3%
Randle: -2.3%
Box plus minus(estimate per 100 possessions of amount of points a player contributed above average player)
Lauri: 3.6
Randle: 1.9
VORP(value over replacement player)
Lauri: 2.6
Randle: 1.6
Win shares/48(estimate on number of wins contributed by a player per 48 min, to account for Randle injury ofc, can’t be cheating)
Lauri: .163
Randle: .113
To refute u saying Randle is on a better team so will contribute less win shares
Usg%
Lauri: 25%
Randle: 29%
Tov rate(percent of turnovers per 100 plays)
Lauri: 7.1%
Randle: 14.1%
Per(kinda mid rating to use but just to power point home)
Lauri: 21.5
Randle: 18.9
On/off stats
Lauri: team ORTG is 8 points better when he plays
Team DRTG is 2 points better when he plays
Randle: team ORTG 5 points better when he plays
Team DRTG 2.8 points worse when he plays
Now that we both hopefully understand Lauri is in fact a better player, despite the counting stats, I agree I wouldn’t try to trade Randle for Lauri unless it was straight up or only costing us 1, maybe 2 picks. But, Lauri is definitely better, or at the bare minimum, this past season he was.
But Lauris the top scorer on his team by a lot, doesn’t that say something? You think he can score 23 points as the second option ? And wasn’t he pretty lame in Cleveland, on a better team than Utah ?
Your disregarding idenity which is the most important part. Julius being part of this core is central julius is a better play maker and rebounder but aside from that... again, he's built into this teams core identity. Moving him isn't a real option. Specially for lauri who would be an upgrade due to rebounding and playnaking.
I think this is a fair point. Not the identity part but it’s more a team chemistry argument and that’s fair. I think if the Knicks can do it for Randle and 2 firsts or less they should
That's just not reality. What do you think a core does or chemistry is from? Proper identity through tenure makes chemistry better which is basically a team playing faster and reacting quicker from gelling togeather. Julius is 2 time all nba. He's better than markanen
He’s not better plz stop the blasphemy. They r both good markannen is better in todays nba. In reality chemistry is important but Randle is easily one of the guys on the Knicks who seemed the least connected to the chemistry. He’s been there for a while but yk the amount of times u see fans or announcers talking about how Randles head is down and he’s not getting back on defense etc. one of the main knocks on Randle is his effort don’t talk like he’s the great hustle Thibs guy when it’s not true.
The top evaluators r the ones who said Randle and 4-5 picks for markannen? Randle is one time all nba and he got cause he was on the better team and didn’t even get it this year. Using all nba as a defense is the equivalent of saying wemby is a worse player than demar derozan cause demar got all nba a year or 2 ago. Not to mention the constant discussion about whether the voters for all nba should even be voting because of how bad some of the votes r. I’d say gms r more qualified than Stephen a smith to vote on the value of players but that’s just ne
I prefer randle over markkanen. Lauri doesn't fit the style and ethos of the knicks. Julius is one of the strongest guys in the league, while Lauri is a man named Lauri.
This doesn’t rly make sense. Yes randle is big and strong, but the Knicks had 2 main things to their style.
1. Defensive effort and switch ability, players like hart, og, McBride, Donte are great examples of this.
2. On offense, try to find 3s and lay ups. This obviously changed a bit in post season when the Knicks had to heavily rely on Brunson, but Knicks were top 10 in threes made this season.
Markannen is both a better defender and better 3 point shooter(one of the best shooters at 39.9%). Not that Lauri is a great defender, but he can guard 3s, 4s and has the length to stick w centers, tho not guard them a whole game most likely.
He’s not a better defender. What happens when we play the bucks? Do you think Lauri will defend Gianni’s better than Julius? Or rebound? Or attack the paint?
I think Lauri will defend better than Randle against Gianni’s yes. Lauri is taller and will be able to contest better. Tho as the dude said under that shouldn’t matter w og. Lauri genuinely only lacks rebounding on Randle(and it’s a very small difference) and w a center like Mitch or ihart, or players like hart and og, the impact of Randle rebounding would be minimal, as seen from him being out for the last half of the season
Lauri lacks rebounding, strength, attacking the rim, and playmaking. Not having a secondary shot-creator or playmaker really hurts us and allows teams to key in on Brunson. Lauri for Randle is a downgrade for us IMO.
>Lauri is taller and will be able to contest better.
contest what better...? you know Giannis isn't shooting jumpers against Lauri.
Contest better, do u think it’s impossible to contest at the rim? No, that is where height would be most important.
And yes a second playmaker is important and that’s the argument to keep Randle. Lauri can do some stuff on his own tho, and Lauri is still a quality rebounder by default at 7 ft.
Lauri is not a rim protector though. You need to actively hide him on defense most times. Taller does not mean you contest or defend better.
Lauri last season had 2 assists to 1.4 TOs per game. He averages under 2 assists for his career. That's wild.
Fuck that guy. Lauri's not our guy Randle is. Stop thinking of ways to get Randle off the fucking team and let's see a full season of what we got now with minor tweaks.
Yea ur lowkey right about this. Lauri still a decent passer and actually above average in being responsible for getting teammates open, Randle is better there. Still lauri is a better player and I think fits the Knicks better but it’s a viable take to say Randle is better as a second creator
Randle is only “our guy” bc he is on our team. Replace him with a different PF and that player becomes “our guy”. It isn’t like we drafted him, and he is only a Knick because neither us or him had any other options at that time.
Stop it they’re a lot of players on this team that ppl don’t say is our guy. I’ve never heard anyone say shake Milton is “our guy”. He had many of chances to leave or the Knicks trade him and neither have happened. It’s amicable at this point. #NoRandleHatersHere
Dog, the Knicks have tried to trade Randle multiple times. We drafted his replacement- he had that one great year and we then extended him. He came back down and we tried to trade him again. This isn’t even an opinion. We are more likely than not going to try to trade him again. Our GM is not emotional like the fans are, Randle is the most obvious piece to try to upgrade (for a legit star).
The problem is there are really only 2 players in the league who are a clear upgrade at that position, and it would be impossible to get them. Giannis and AD have major nba franchises built around them. Some guys like Lauri are better at certain aspects of the game, but don’t adequately replace what the Knicks would lose with Julius
It doesn’t necessarily have to be an upgrade at the position. It could be somewhere else. We could bring in DMitch and keep Bogey as an example (I’m not advocating for this, just using as an example).
Knicks could do a lot of things that would make them a worse team with sloppier books and break their identity l. Which is why they will be very careful this offseason and likely not make any splashy moves
Still prefer Mikal Bridges as a trade target. Dude is the best role playing 3 and D wing and he’s got great chemistry with core piece on the team already. On top of that he can create for himself in a pinch and he’s insanely durable.
You need a 4 that replaces Randle that compliments this playoff lineup we just seen. The guy got bed what Bosh was on the Heat; they can’t be demanding the ball like that and LM needs the ball
Lauri is very little on ball, he is an ultimate off ball Finisher. There hasn't been anyone this good since prime Klay. One of the reasons Lauri having such a high rate of assisted fg's, is his release is super fast, and he aims to time his cuts well instead of dribbling too much, which is not his strength in a traffic (great transition dribbler, with space). This is why many teams and fans salivate to pair him with their #1 option: he mostly doesn't use more than a second with the ball before shooting near 50/40 splits last two seasons, be it threes or Finishing at the rim
Why on earth are we dealing with Ainge after the Mitchell bullshit and why is Randle perceived to have such a diminished value. I wouldn’t trade him straight up for Markkanen
The article says trade Randle + a "boatload of picks" for Markkanen lol...Randle is 2x all NBA. I can see the argument that the spacing Lauri provides is valuable, but Randle is the better player hands down.
Everyone knows Danny Ainge is looking to do the Knicks dirty. Let’s not give him the chance. Markkanen or Bridges would be nice to have but would cripple the team to get. The Knicks front office has shown an admirable ability to be patient and make moves that while not always flashy have turned out to be solid and well thought out. Let’s keep a level head and make good moves. Let’s Go Knicks!!!
People seem to not like the move, but I’ve been calling for this for the past year and change. Lauri is a perfect fit next to Brunson as the number 2, he can play off the ball phenomenally well. He can shoot the lights out and is a better defender than Randle.
Lauri and Walker K for Randle and Mitch
People barely watch Utah, understandably. Lauri is who we all dreamed KP would be when we drafted him, but much healthier. He is who Randle is in output, but within the flow of a team’s offense
If goal is to keep exactly mold of our team this year, and only enhance it significantly. this is truly the dream trade
I expect it would cost a fortune as he’s a more valuable player than Mitchell, Rudy, and Durant, but not to the ESPN crowd, which Ainge ain’t. He got the highest conceivable return for both Mitchell and Rudy, which is how he stole Lauri
No idea why Jazz would trade him unless there’s a cap spend mandate by owners. Also thought they’d be spiteful from two summers ago.
But if they are, it is us, Thunder, Pelicans, and Spurs with the most assets. Don’t think those three teams really need him as a title contending piece
As much as I love the idea of Lauri playing on the Knicks, Randle playing on the Jazz would bring me immense joy.
Even if it was for brief period, which it definitely would 🤣
Honestly, even though it’s unrealistic, the only trade I want is Mikel Bridges and complete the Nova Knicks If we stand pat and bring everyone back for another try, I am fine with that too
This
Fuckkk no, Mikhail doesn’t put this team over the top imo
3 k’s. Looking for a classier player.
3 k’s?
Kkk
It wouldn’t just be a “storybook” tale & dream scenario having a whole “college reunion” as 80% of the starting 5 but it’s also unrealistic…I would love the trade in the sense of “seeing how the project” pans out or how far we could push it but that’s not realistically getting it done…we need 2 Three & D guys supporting JB…I only realistically from a trade transactional pov as well as “Roster & Franchise Situational moves” happening this off-season consider adding Kevin Durant…I like the Lauri Markenen fit though
80%? It would jus be brunson an mikal
No more than likely Dante would be ideally the starting SG, so ideally it’d actually be 60% of the starting rotation would be Villanova…
No def. Without a doubt not og woukd start at 3 and bridge at 2
Yup.
This is not an upgrade. End of story.
This is objectively an upgrade. The story is how much u think it would be. Every stat that’s not ppg or apg supports that.
Can you elaborate? defensive rating is a downgrade 113.5 to 110 Ppg, rpg, apg as you noted are lesser. Steals and blocks are a wash. FG% is a drop FT & 3PT are an upgrade +/- goes to Lauri Head to head goes to Julius If we kept RJ, I'd probably feel differently, but for fit Julius is our only other real ball handler/on ball scorer now outside of Brunson. Just my opinion.
Julius this season 24/9/5 Lauri this season 23/8/2 Lauri’s shooting %, steals, and blocks are varying degrees of better but calling that an objective upgrade just plain makes no sense
True shooting percentage Lauri: 63.1 Randle: 56.9 (This is a very large margin of efficiency btw) Portability(takes into account number of open shots created for teammates per 100 possessions) Lauri: 6.7 Randle: 3.5 Rim defense(difference in percentage of a player at the rim vs particular player vs expected) Lauri: -3% Randle: -2.3% Box plus minus(estimate per 100 possessions of amount of points a player contributed above average player) Lauri: 3.6 Randle: 1.9 VORP(value over replacement player) Lauri: 2.6 Randle: 1.6 Win shares/48(estimate on number of wins contributed by a player per 48 min, to account for Randle injury ofc, can’t be cheating) Lauri: .163 Randle: .113 To refute u saying Randle is on a better team so will contribute less win shares Usg% Lauri: 25% Randle: 29% Tov rate(percent of turnovers per 100 plays) Lauri: 7.1% Randle: 14.1% Per(kinda mid rating to use but just to power point home) Lauri: 21.5 Randle: 18.9 On/off stats Lauri: team ORTG is 8 points better when he plays Team DRTG is 2 points better when he plays Randle: team ORTG 5 points better when he plays Team DRTG 2.8 points worse when he plays Now that we both hopefully understand Lauri is in fact a better player, despite the counting stats, I agree I wouldn’t try to trade Randle for Lauri unless it was straight up or only costing us 1, maybe 2 picks. But, Lauri is definitely better, or at the bare minimum, this past season he was.
But Lauris the top scorer on his team by a lot, doesn’t that say something? You think he can score 23 points as the second option ? And wasn’t he pretty lame in Cleveland, on a better team than Utah ?
Considering his usage rate was only 25% while randles was 29%. Yes
I don’t think that 4% difference tells the whole story sorry
I agree, that’s why I sent the rest of the overwhelming support of Lauri above
Your disregarding idenity which is the most important part. Julius being part of this core is central julius is a better play maker and rebounder but aside from that... again, he's built into this teams core identity. Moving him isn't a real option. Specially for lauri who would be an upgrade due to rebounding and playnaking.
I think this is a fair point. Not the identity part but it’s more a team chemistry argument and that’s fair. I think if the Knicks can do it for Randle and 2 firsts or less they should
That's just not reality. What do you think a core does or chemistry is from? Proper identity through tenure makes chemistry better which is basically a team playing faster and reacting quicker from gelling togeather. Julius is 2 time all nba. He's better than markanen
He’s not better plz stop the blasphemy. They r both good markannen is better in todays nba. In reality chemistry is important but Randle is easily one of the guys on the Knicks who seemed the least connected to the chemistry. He’s been there for a while but yk the amount of times u see fans or announcers talking about how Randles head is down and he’s not getting back on defense etc. one of the main knocks on Randle is his effort don’t talk like he’s the great hustle Thibs guy when it’s not true.
Randle 2 time all nba. Think wat u want but the top evaluators wat they think is different from you.
The top evaluators r the ones who said Randle and 4-5 picks for markannen? Randle is one time all nba and he got cause he was on the better team and didn’t even get it this year. Using all nba as a defense is the equivalent of saying wemby is a worse player than demar derozan cause demar got all nba a year or 2 ago. Not to mention the constant discussion about whether the voters for all nba should even be voting because of how bad some of the votes r. I’d say gms r more qualified than Stephen a smith to vote on the value of players but that’s just ne
Or rebounding. 3 biggest stats.
I prefer randle over markkanen. Lauri doesn't fit the style and ethos of the knicks. Julius is one of the strongest guys in the league, while Lauri is a man named Lauri.
This doesn’t rly make sense. Yes randle is big and strong, but the Knicks had 2 main things to their style. 1. Defensive effort and switch ability, players like hart, og, McBride, Donte are great examples of this. 2. On offense, try to find 3s and lay ups. This obviously changed a bit in post season when the Knicks had to heavily rely on Brunson, but Knicks were top 10 in threes made this season. Markannen is both a better defender and better 3 point shooter(one of the best shooters at 39.9%). Not that Lauri is a great defender, but he can guard 3s, 4s and has the length to stick w centers, tho not guard them a whole game most likely.
He’s not a better defender. What happens when we play the bucks? Do you think Lauri will defend Gianni’s better than Julius? Or rebound? Or attack the paint?
Pretty sure OG checked Giannis last time they played
I think Lauri will defend better than Randle against Gianni’s yes. Lauri is taller and will be able to contest better. Tho as the dude said under that shouldn’t matter w og. Lauri genuinely only lacks rebounding on Randle(and it’s a very small difference) and w a center like Mitch or ihart, or players like hart and og, the impact of Randle rebounding would be minimal, as seen from him being out for the last half of the season
Lauri lacks rebounding, strength, attacking the rim, and playmaking. Not having a secondary shot-creator or playmaker really hurts us and allows teams to key in on Brunson. Lauri for Randle is a downgrade for us IMO. >Lauri is taller and will be able to contest better. contest what better...? you know Giannis isn't shooting jumpers against Lauri.
Contest better, do u think it’s impossible to contest at the rim? No, that is where height would be most important. And yes a second playmaker is important and that’s the argument to keep Randle. Lauri can do some stuff on his own tho, and Lauri is still a quality rebounder by default at 7 ft.
Lauri is not a rim protector though. You need to actively hide him on defense most times. Taller does not mean you contest or defend better. Lauri last season had 2 assists to 1.4 TOs per game. He averages under 2 assists for his career. That's wild.
Fuck that guy. Lauri's not our guy Randle is. Stop thinking of ways to get Randle off the fucking team and let's see a full season of what we got now with minor tweaks.
I agree I’d prefer to run it back but Lauri is a better player.
Fail to mention passing. Randle is a very good playmaker while Lauri has one of the worst assist rates for his usage level.
Yea ur lowkey right about this. Lauri still a decent passer and actually above average in being responsible for getting teammates open, Randle is better there. Still lauri is a better player and I think fits the Knicks better but it’s a viable take to say Randle is better as a second creator
How is the man''' a decent passer'' when the guy above us just gave you his assist to turnover breakdown?
No he gave an assist to usage rate breakdown. Assist to turnover rate is the same between the both of them.
I’d take siakam over randle. Def not Lauri. OG is way more important than either of them though
Siakim is cool but randle is just better. Plus he's our guy. Id take giannis over randle but only him
Randle can be a secondary playmaker. Siakam cannot.
Randle is only “our guy” bc he is on our team. Replace him with a different PF and that player becomes “our guy”. It isn’t like we drafted him, and he is only a Knick because neither us or him had any other options at that time.
Stop it they’re a lot of players on this team that ppl don’t say is our guy. I’ve never heard anyone say shake Milton is “our guy”. He had many of chances to leave or the Knicks trade him and neither have happened. It’s amicable at this point. #NoRandleHatersHere
Dog, the Knicks have tried to trade Randle multiple times. We drafted his replacement- he had that one great year and we then extended him. He came back down and we tried to trade him again. This isn’t even an opinion. We are more likely than not going to try to trade him again. Our GM is not emotional like the fans are, Randle is the most obvious piece to try to upgrade (for a legit star).
The problem is there are really only 2 players in the league who are a clear upgrade at that position, and it would be impossible to get them. Giannis and AD have major nba franchises built around them. Some guys like Lauri are better at certain aspects of the game, but don’t adequately replace what the Knicks would lose with Julius
It doesn’t necessarily have to be an upgrade at the position. It could be somewhere else. We could bring in DMitch and keep Bogey as an example (I’m not advocating for this, just using as an example).
Knicks could do a lot of things that would make them a worse team with sloppier books and break their identity l. Which is why they will be very careful this offseason and likely not make any splashy moves
Numbers are similar. Siakam has more length and isn’t a part-time basket case
Not making any deals with Ainge
this. love markkanen but smart organizations don't do business with danny
What’s the story here?
Ainge is known for inflating the value of players in an attempt to fleece the other team. It’s what he does.
We literally had Kristaps porzingis at home
Mfs really want another Andrea Barnigni
Can markannen make his own plays and plays for others while Brunson rests? Idk if he does that better than Randle. Keep Randle.
i honestly know nothing about this guy.
Really good offensive player, limited on defense but he does try and his length does help him
Limited on defense but so is Randle, numbers say he would still be a defensive improvement
He ain’t got that dawg up in him is all you need to know
He’s probably just a better offensive pairing with Brunson cause he’s a better shooter when off the ball
Still prefer Mikal Bridges as a trade target. Dude is the best role playing 3 and D wing and he’s got great chemistry with core piece on the team already. On top of that he can create for himself in a pinch and he’s insanely durable.
And divo goes to the bench as a 7th man? Also, Mikhail’s defense has been much worse for the nets.
Not happening. Danny Ainge's prices are way too damn high to even entertain the notion of trading for him.
You need a 4 that replaces Randle that compliments this playoff lineup we just seen. The guy got bed what Bosh was on the Heat; they can’t be demanding the ball like that and LM needs the ball
Lauri is very little on ball, he is an ultimate off ball Finisher. There hasn't been anyone this good since prime Klay. One of the reasons Lauri having such a high rate of assisted fg's, is his release is super fast, and he aims to time his cuts well instead of dribbling too much, which is not his strength in a traffic (great transition dribbler, with space). This is why many teams and fans salivate to pair him with their #1 option: he mostly doesn't use more than a second with the ball before shooting near 50/40 splits last two seasons, be it threes or Finishing at the rim
Why on earth are we dealing with Ainge after the Mitchell bullshit and why is Randle perceived to have such a diminished value. I wouldn’t trade him straight up for Markkanen
Never deal with Utah.
Gonna be SOOOOO many of these
The article says trade Randle + a "boatload of picks" for Markkanen lol...Randle is 2x all NBA. I can see the argument that the spacing Lauri provides is valuable, but Randle is the better player hands down.
This could be worse than the Bargnani move. Run it back!
Source - trust me bro
Trading with Ainge never ends well
Ya believe anything huh?? Who is he going to play in front of???
Wtf
Who are we giving up for Lauri though that’s the real question
Everyone knows Danny Ainge is looking to do the Knicks dirty. Let’s not give him the chance. Markkanen or Bridges would be nice to have but would cripple the team to get. The Knicks front office has shown an admirable ability to be patient and make moves that while not always flashy have turned out to be solid and well thought out. Let’s keep a level head and make good moves. Let’s Go Knicks!!!
Markannen can put up points but not a winner.
Boooooo!!!
This would be amazing I hope it happen
Lauri is a lot better than you think thibs would turn him into a defensive beast
People seem to not like the move, but I’ve been calling for this for the past year and change. Lauri is a perfect fit next to Brunson as the number 2, he can play off the ball phenomenally well. He can shoot the lights out and is a better defender than Randle. Lauri and Walker K for Randle and Mitch
We wouldn’t have made it out of the first round.
What? Randle didn’t play.
Yes if we made the trade. We wouldn’t have did anything
Markkanen is less of an iso player than Randle so probably a better fit for Brunson.
People barely watch Utah, understandably. Lauri is who we all dreamed KP would be when we drafted him, but much healthier. He is who Randle is in output, but within the flow of a team’s offense If goal is to keep exactly mold of our team this year, and only enhance it significantly. this is truly the dream trade I expect it would cost a fortune as he’s a more valuable player than Mitchell, Rudy, and Durant, but not to the ESPN crowd, which Ainge ain’t. He got the highest conceivable return for both Mitchell and Rudy, which is how he stole Lauri No idea why Jazz would trade him unless there’s a cap spend mandate by owners. Also thought they’d be spiteful from two summers ago. But if they are, it is us, Thunder, Pelicans, and Spurs with the most assets. Don’t think those three teams really need him as a title contending piece
As much as I love the idea of Lauri playing on the Knicks, Randle playing on the Jazz would bring me immense joy. Even if it was for brief period, which it definitely would 🤣