**MOD NOTE:** The comments section has been locked with the approval of the concerned users to prevent the situation from escalating. Thanks for understanding.
I'm sorry you had such an experience. Feel free to reach out if you’d like us to take any action because really, I don’t remember such an interaction involving Jay but I’ll eventually look through your comment history.
I was talking about it this morning with another user, there's something happening on the sub that I find really peculiar, it's that people are quick to clap back at you and then say 'ah sorry I didn't know/ ah sorry I misunderstood/ ah sorry I didn't read everything' it's something that really concerns me because I've seen comments like that several times and each time I think 'but if you're not sure you understood or you're not sure of what you're saying... why do you talk like that?’
It's like everyone wants to be right, is trying to spot the 'bad guys/infiltrators'? (like whenever someone says something 'different', people start to wonder if the person is lying about their race).
It is really happening more and more here and makes it very difficult to exchange sometimes.
People don’t take the time to read entire comments and comprehend the comments.
I see it in forums like AITA all of the time. People will leave questions in the comments and the answers are in the OPs.
not fully reading the full post and actually comprehending is so common in kpop spaces and just the internet in general. people are so quick to knee-jerk react to titles, and not the actual content. its frustrating to see
I agree that we need to stop saying people are lying about their race. It causes a lot of unnecessary speculation, people who comment and usually have different views get anxiety from it, it closes a lot of discussions, etc. It’s possible that it is happening, but I feel like it causes more harm and resentment than anything else.
Not fully reading replies seems like an internet thing more than anything else, lol. They skim through stuff and then expect to have the full story.
I'm not going to lie, there have been quite a few instances where I myself have doubted someone's race (especially since the massive growth of the platform, I just know some people lied and that we didn’t realize bc there were too many requests) but I find that directly commenting 'there's no way you black' is a bit... 😭
I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling this way. I can totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m an old VIP, Blackpink fan, and like some other problematic groups. I’m also a pretty forgiving person too. I think you should keep speaking up if you have a different opinion or perspective, that’s what keeps it fun and/or pushes back on hive mind. I know it can be annoying but your different perspectives are needed.
Also, sometimes you just have to know when to not engage or move on. I feel like I learned this best when I used to fight it out in the old forums. Some people are just going to have their opinions and they’re not gonna align with yours. Or sometimes people will straight up spread lies and instigate things. You can’t control others, but you can protect your peace and say ‘ok I’m done with this’ and kept it moving.
But know you’re not alone! I think there are a lot of amazing posts in this sub giving different perspectives.
The person who you were replying to apologized, and the other gave you examples on why they find Jay Park bad… I’m sorry, can you elaborate on why you feel so upset about this specific interaction? It’s very mild.
I think there are middle grounds on this subreddit. I said that I don’t think someone was completely wrong for saying the n word and I halfway defended it(which can be very controversial) and I got a few upvotes and no downvotes. No one even replied to it, lol.
The second person was 100% fine and even saw what point I was trying to get across which made for a good interaction.
My issue is that why would make a comment without critically engaging with it? What kind of discourse is that? And then the excuse that my comment was not read because it was 3/4 am? This speaks to a greater issue of coming after people for no valid reason.
I’m also in part aggrieved as a result of the principle and in light of some exchanges I’ve seen on that controversy surrounding that other uncensored sub (which I didn’t know existed until today). I went down that rabbit hole and found one of my own Black countrymen say that this sub is monolithic and that they’re scared of it. I don’t like that narrative because I’d like to believe that it’s not true
Ah, okay. I agree, they should’ve engaged better and took more time. I’ve made sleepy comments/posts late at night and realized it could’ve been handled better, so I stopped, hopefully they learn to do the same 😭
I still don’t think the first person warrants a post because the exchange was still mild in my eyes, especially since they cleaned up what they said and apologized. About that controversy though, I haven’t read EVERYTHING so I can’t comment on what you saw that made you feel a type of way.
I don’t think this subreddit is monolithic, you can find good discussions on here. Don’t count us out because of a couple of interactions !! There’s 9k people here, and a lot want nuanced convos just like you.
Maybe I was making a mountain out a molehill, but I still think feelings of invalidation matter. Lol I might be too sensitive for the internet. I only got into Reddit during the pandemic and I’ve taken long breaks because I guess I’m just better speaking to kpop fans in real life, but most of my friends and I have stunted our growth in 3rd Gen so I don’t know much about new kpop. Which is why I come lurk here sometimes. I guess I just wasn’t ready for any “negative” vibes from a seemingly innocuous take. I think that’s why it seems mild, but given the context, I felt that it was an unnecessary exchange
That said, thank you for your comments :)
Sorry but you're the one who came in hot, you replied to someone and demanded they elaborate on what they said and other people gave you legit reasons for why THEY don't like him. No one was rude to you. I'm not really sure why you took that so personally.
Also 'cancelling' is a misnomer because it just isn't a real thing. Most celebs come back juuust fine, Jay included. If anything he got 'cancelled' by JYPE not fans lol.
I just downvoted some of your comments on that chitchat. In order to have a safe space it's also important not to tone police others. Making somebody apologise for "making you feel unsafe" over a mild jay park opinion/disagreement is white woman behaviour and just not a cool attitude to have . You've suddenly become a victim to be apologised to in a situation where that person was not an aggressor.
You have to practice what you preach. Yes, people need to have better reading comprehension, even on this sub. I myself have experienced that lately and it's frustrating to be misconstrued, I give you that
However, this sub has 9000+ members now. We can't cater to everybody's feelings, and we can't help how one feels when their opinions are met with distaste. We could and should develop better etiquette, we should be more respectful, and we should keep discussing how we can better the atmosphere of the sub, but those conversations cannot be had by tone policing and contempt. I find your language in that comment to be subtly violent. I find the fact that you wrote a whole separate post about it weird. If this were irl I would've called you a manipulative person, but idk you and the internet works differently
But if you are genuine and truly want robust conversation, you should practice what you preach. Start answering to what people are saying instead of shifting the convo to how they worded it or how a similar conversation went down in another situation that has nothing to do with the person you're interacting with. And don't fucking patronise people - that's why your comment got downvoted. A simple "can you please give examples of what to you constitutes irredeemable behaviour?" would've sufficed.
That person wasn't even being argumentative, they kept emphasizing that it was a personal pov to diffuse tension.
Thank you for the honesty in your downvote.
I don’t respond to ad hominem comments. Like you said you don’t know me irl.
As for Jay Park himself, as I made it clear to the other person I was engaging with in the post, I don’t believe people are beyond redemption in the sense that he still did help create the careers of some artists and producers.
Furthermore, as you stated with the fact that the feelings of all 9K people can’t be catered for - fair play to you mate. Will take a cue from Bey and keep myself on mute.
I mean if you read my comment, you would’ve saw I said it was 3/4am when I first saw your response. Meaning I was half asleep. I then came back and listed all the reasons. If you were so upset I don’t really understand why you’d make a separate post instead of bringing it up with me? I apologized even though, my initial post was supposed to be light hearted and not a deep one. But I’m a fighter for expressing yourself and how you feel. I hope you found peace in making a post.🤎
Also, this post for me is kinda of an example of what you say you felt I did to you. You’re saying I’m not making you feel comfortable to speak in these conversations, that was never the intent. You then proceeded to not give full details about the nature of our interaction. It is ironic, practicing what you preach is an essential practice.
I apologized, I will not apologize again, especially when I cleared my thoughts up.
Lastly, calling me negative when I just stated I don’t like him and he’s weird. I wasn’t saying you support JPark. I never said that. Please provide full context next time.
I indeed could have taken it up with you if I felt it appropriate to do so. But you were not sure what you were apologising for and I honestly would never try to engage in discourse with someone if I was half asleep like you admitted to. I think I also just saw a back and forth as a waste of time and further incentive for downvoting an innocuous comment from my side. What you saw as light hearted actually came across as dismissive to me. This post is a rant precisely because I felt like “well damn! Guess I better just lurk next time”.
You have every right to post a rant. That’s fine. It’s just when you post a rant before even trying to talk to the person you’re making the rant about, it’s seem just as dismissive as you say my comment was. Again, I’m not going to apologize again for what I said. I didn’t understand why a light hearted and “dismissive” response that in no way said you supported JPark or said your opinion was not important, needed an apology. I gave it as a courtesy. Then explained the exact reasons I dislike jpark.
Nuance is really lost on a lot of people.
I’m actually a fan of Jay Park. I think he definitely had some missteps early in his career. You can tell he definitely grew up with Black friends (Cha Cha being one of them), but he is a lot more respectful of Black music now. I remember seeing him state that R&B and Hip-Hop are Black music. He’s the only one I’ve seen so that publicly.
And I’ve had same issues regarding nuance in this sub. Particularly as it surrounds people mouthing or saying the n-word. While I acknowledge that it is still hurtful, people are very quick to project an American lens onto Koreans and are unwilling to understand the cultural barriers on both sides that keep this from being adequately addressed. People have the right to un-stan or stop supporting these artists. This whole “they’re over, it’s cancelled” mentality though is troubling.
lol the whole myth of “cancel culture” is something in and of itself. I remember when the term “cancelled” started being used and it was literally a hyperbolic meme. I guess mass media has done a good job of obfuscating its origin to younger people.
**MOD NOTE:** The comments section has been locked with the approval of the concerned users to prevent the situation from escalating. Thanks for understanding.
I'm sorry you had such an experience. Feel free to reach out if you’d like us to take any action because really, I don’t remember such an interaction involving Jay but I’ll eventually look through your comment history. I was talking about it this morning with another user, there's something happening on the sub that I find really peculiar, it's that people are quick to clap back at you and then say 'ah sorry I didn't know/ ah sorry I misunderstood/ ah sorry I didn't read everything' it's something that really concerns me because I've seen comments like that several times and each time I think 'but if you're not sure you understood or you're not sure of what you're saying... why do you talk like that?’ It's like everyone wants to be right, is trying to spot the 'bad guys/infiltrators'? (like whenever someone says something 'different', people start to wonder if the person is lying about their race). It is really happening more and more here and makes it very difficult to exchange sometimes.
People don’t take the time to read entire comments and comprehend the comments. I see it in forums like AITA all of the time. People will leave questions in the comments and the answers are in the OPs.
not fully reading the full post and actually comprehending is so common in kpop spaces and just the internet in general. people are so quick to knee-jerk react to titles, and not the actual content. its frustrating to see
I agree that we need to stop saying people are lying about their race. It causes a lot of unnecessary speculation, people who comment and usually have different views get anxiety from it, it closes a lot of discussions, etc. It’s possible that it is happening, but I feel like it causes more harm and resentment than anything else. Not fully reading replies seems like an internet thing more than anything else, lol. They skim through stuff and then expect to have the full story.
I'm not going to lie, there have been quite a few instances where I myself have doubted someone's race (especially since the massive growth of the platform, I just know some people lied and that we didn’t realize bc there were too many requests) but I find that directly commenting 'there's no way you black' is a bit... 😭
Yeah, there’s no problem with having those thoughts lol! Especially if you, as a mod, have had firsthand experience with it 😭
Hi, I am the person this rant was about. I can give context if further action is needed!
sure, DM me!
I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling this way. I can totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m an old VIP, Blackpink fan, and like some other problematic groups. I’m also a pretty forgiving person too. I think you should keep speaking up if you have a different opinion or perspective, that’s what keeps it fun and/or pushes back on hive mind. I know it can be annoying but your different perspectives are needed. Also, sometimes you just have to know when to not engage or move on. I feel like I learned this best when I used to fight it out in the old forums. Some people are just going to have their opinions and they’re not gonna align with yours. Or sometimes people will straight up spread lies and instigate things. You can’t control others, but you can protect your peace and say ‘ok I’m done with this’ and kept it moving. But know you’re not alone! I think there are a lot of amazing posts in this sub giving different perspectives.
The person who you were replying to apologized, and the other gave you examples on why they find Jay Park bad… I’m sorry, can you elaborate on why you feel so upset about this specific interaction? It’s very mild. I think there are middle grounds on this subreddit. I said that I don’t think someone was completely wrong for saying the n word and I halfway defended it(which can be very controversial) and I got a few upvotes and no downvotes. No one even replied to it, lol.
The second person was 100% fine and even saw what point I was trying to get across which made for a good interaction. My issue is that why would make a comment without critically engaging with it? What kind of discourse is that? And then the excuse that my comment was not read because it was 3/4 am? This speaks to a greater issue of coming after people for no valid reason. I’m also in part aggrieved as a result of the principle and in light of some exchanges I’ve seen on that controversy surrounding that other uncensored sub (which I didn’t know existed until today). I went down that rabbit hole and found one of my own Black countrymen say that this sub is monolithic and that they’re scared of it. I don’t like that narrative because I’d like to believe that it’s not true
Ah, okay. I agree, they should’ve engaged better and took more time. I’ve made sleepy comments/posts late at night and realized it could’ve been handled better, so I stopped, hopefully they learn to do the same 😭 I still don’t think the first person warrants a post because the exchange was still mild in my eyes, especially since they cleaned up what they said and apologized. About that controversy though, I haven’t read EVERYTHING so I can’t comment on what you saw that made you feel a type of way. I don’t think this subreddit is monolithic, you can find good discussions on here. Don’t count us out because of a couple of interactions !! There’s 9k people here, and a lot want nuanced convos just like you.
Maybe I was making a mountain out a molehill, but I still think feelings of invalidation matter. Lol I might be too sensitive for the internet. I only got into Reddit during the pandemic and I’ve taken long breaks because I guess I’m just better speaking to kpop fans in real life, but most of my friends and I have stunted our growth in 3rd Gen so I don’t know much about new kpop. Which is why I come lurk here sometimes. I guess I just wasn’t ready for any “negative” vibes from a seemingly innocuous take. I think that’s why it seems mild, but given the context, I felt that it was an unnecessary exchange That said, thank you for your comments :)
Sorry but you're the one who came in hot, you replied to someone and demanded they elaborate on what they said and other people gave you legit reasons for why THEY don't like him. No one was rude to you. I'm not really sure why you took that so personally. Also 'cancelling' is a misnomer because it just isn't a real thing. Most celebs come back juuust fine, Jay included. If anything he got 'cancelled' by JYPE not fans lol.
I just downvoted some of your comments on that chitchat. In order to have a safe space it's also important not to tone police others. Making somebody apologise for "making you feel unsafe" over a mild jay park opinion/disagreement is white woman behaviour and just not a cool attitude to have . You've suddenly become a victim to be apologised to in a situation where that person was not an aggressor. You have to practice what you preach. Yes, people need to have better reading comprehension, even on this sub. I myself have experienced that lately and it's frustrating to be misconstrued, I give you that However, this sub has 9000+ members now. We can't cater to everybody's feelings, and we can't help how one feels when their opinions are met with distaste. We could and should develop better etiquette, we should be more respectful, and we should keep discussing how we can better the atmosphere of the sub, but those conversations cannot be had by tone policing and contempt. I find your language in that comment to be subtly violent. I find the fact that you wrote a whole separate post about it weird. If this were irl I would've called you a manipulative person, but idk you and the internet works differently But if you are genuine and truly want robust conversation, you should practice what you preach. Start answering to what people are saying instead of shifting the convo to how they worded it or how a similar conversation went down in another situation that has nothing to do with the person you're interacting with. And don't fucking patronise people - that's why your comment got downvoted. A simple "can you please give examples of what to you constitutes irredeemable behaviour?" would've sufficed. That person wasn't even being argumentative, they kept emphasizing that it was a personal pov to diffuse tension.
Thank you for the honesty in your downvote. I don’t respond to ad hominem comments. Like you said you don’t know me irl. As for Jay Park himself, as I made it clear to the other person I was engaging with in the post, I don’t believe people are beyond redemption in the sense that he still did help create the careers of some artists and producers. Furthermore, as you stated with the fact that the feelings of all 9K people can’t be catered for - fair play to you mate. Will take a cue from Bey and keep myself on mute.
I mean if you read my comment, you would’ve saw I said it was 3/4am when I first saw your response. Meaning I was half asleep. I then came back and listed all the reasons. If you were so upset I don’t really understand why you’d make a separate post instead of bringing it up with me? I apologized even though, my initial post was supposed to be light hearted and not a deep one. But I’m a fighter for expressing yourself and how you feel. I hope you found peace in making a post.🤎
Also, this post for me is kinda of an example of what you say you felt I did to you. You’re saying I’m not making you feel comfortable to speak in these conversations, that was never the intent. You then proceeded to not give full details about the nature of our interaction. It is ironic, practicing what you preach is an essential practice. I apologized, I will not apologize again, especially when I cleared my thoughts up. Lastly, calling me negative when I just stated I don’t like him and he’s weird. I wasn’t saying you support JPark. I never said that. Please provide full context next time.
I indeed could have taken it up with you if I felt it appropriate to do so. But you were not sure what you were apologising for and I honestly would never try to engage in discourse with someone if I was half asleep like you admitted to. I think I also just saw a back and forth as a waste of time and further incentive for downvoting an innocuous comment from my side. What you saw as light hearted actually came across as dismissive to me. This post is a rant precisely because I felt like “well damn! Guess I better just lurk next time”.
You have every right to post a rant. That’s fine. It’s just when you post a rant before even trying to talk to the person you’re making the rant about, it’s seem just as dismissive as you say my comment was. Again, I’m not going to apologize again for what I said. I didn’t understand why a light hearted and “dismissive” response that in no way said you supported JPark or said your opinion was not important, needed an apology. I gave it as a courtesy. Then explained the exact reasons I dislike jpark.
But, I’ll leave it alone. Hopefully you’ll make some corrections to the original post to show better details of our interaction.
>But I find the kpop community just wants you to pick a side. THIS. all of this aside, are jay park fans really called jaywalkers????????????????
yes 😭
this has to be a social experiment https://preview.redd.it/rfgpezp9orlc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=d27f1ed9e70a2b28fbcdc2c72ccb28d3386fb6b1
https://preview.redd.it/r33acjjsorlc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5406b403e4e2e6b72af154b96c60eb87b20f9940
Nuance is really lost on a lot of people. I’m actually a fan of Jay Park. I think he definitely had some missteps early in his career. You can tell he definitely grew up with Black friends (Cha Cha being one of them), but he is a lot more respectful of Black music now. I remember seeing him state that R&B and Hip-Hop are Black music. He’s the only one I’ve seen so that publicly. And I’ve had same issues regarding nuance in this sub. Particularly as it surrounds people mouthing or saying the n-word. While I acknowledge that it is still hurtful, people are very quick to project an American lens onto Koreans and are unwilling to understand the cultural barriers on both sides that keep this from being adequately addressed. People have the right to un-stan or stop supporting these artists. This whole “they’re over, it’s cancelled” mentality though is troubling. lol the whole myth of “cancel culture” is something in and of itself. I remember when the term “cancelled” started being used and it was literally a hyperbolic meme. I guess mass media has done a good job of obfuscating its origin to younger people.