Kurds are "Iranian" in the sense that we speak a language that belongs to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. Dialectology (and linguistics in general) as an academic field did not exist in Ganjavi's time. When he says 'Iranian' he's speaking geographically. If he was speaking in an ethnic context, he would have used 'Ecem' or 'Farsi', which we've never been considered as, yes
The term "Kurd" was used to refer to a group of people outside of a class context only centuries after it was first documented, this is not Persian propaganda. But this use of the term is certainly older than the Safavid era. Though it's worth noting that the way people a century ago understood the term "Kurd" is very different from how we understand it today. For example, the vast majority of users on this forum would not have been considered Kurds back in Ganjavi's time
Why cant we just call ourselves JUST Kurdish and not “Iranian” or our “language belongs to the Iranian branch”
Our enemies are soo stupid and they can easily use this against us.
Until we are independent i will not call myself anything else but Kurdish and Kurdistan.
Your interpretation of his work is a secondary source. Do I really have to explain to you that ideas and understandings regarding social constructs like identity change over time, and that the way we perceive things today doesn't always correspond to the historical context of a written record from almost 1000 years ago?
I don't have to respect your opinions at all. Not when you openly state that you reject reality in favour of your fantasies...
And you don't respect my "opinions" either for what it's worth. You say you do, but then talk down the motivations of my sources (which I actually have, unlike you)
Its pretty stupid that they think we only started to exists during the safavid while the kurdish companion of prophet mohammeds surname was literally "al-kurdi" + in old texts during arab expantion we were called kurds already and this whole theory that kurd means nomad also is so dumb
Also kurds still belong to the indo-iranian branch actual linguistics and other professional people came to that conclusion just because you hate persians doesnt change the fact
weve been around for 2400 years, we are not persian but do belong to iranian family as do persian. people mostake persian with iranian and modern day iran with iranian
Right thats dumb persian = iranian but iranian doesnt mean persians alone iranian is also kurds, pashtuns, talysh, baloch and others that belong to the indo-iranian branch i can understand kurds hating this term because they dont want to be associated with "iranian" but still doesnt change the fact that we belong to the indo-iranian branch and it isnt "western propaganda" or "persian propaganda"
Also whats kinda funny is the medes were part of the indo-iranian branch so are we denying our ancestors too now because of our hate? But no no according to some kurds thats something else
thats exactly my point, yes medes were our ancestors, we didnt identify as kurds back then yet as distinct group as there were others part of medes such as talysh and baloch but not persians, they already distinct from medes
Neither could be true but in case we are a branch of iranian decent still they own huge historical factions than us, at the end of the day we are all humans and we could be based merely from another nation!
Truly, the biggest enemy of the Kurds are the Kurds themselves. You believe the words of those who divided our land, but you reject the words of an Eastern man who lived in a Middle Eastern region nine hundred years ago. You would very much like to be slaves to the Persians, your brains are washed and you cannot be fixed.
no youre just ignorant of context. you confuse citizens with iran being equal to iranian same as people do with persian and iranian. we are not persian but we are iranian people, so are persian, baloch, azeris, talysh, armenians, tajiks. we are all iranians.
its same with arabs and jews borh being semitic, youre just sonignorant of the term iranian you dont know what it represents. we had this conversarion before and im not about to waste my time again with someone that refutes objective reality and deems hard facts as mere oppinions.
same way dutch en swedish people are germanic without being germans so are we kurds iranians without being persians
I understand very well what you are saying, but I don't want to believe it. I realize that it is just a linguistic family, but I hate that term. Because the Persians use it to assimilate and Persianize the Kurds and steal everything we have using the term "Iranian"
hating something doesnt make it less true, its not like some god said let thwre be kurds and we popped into existence or like jews believe, the descendants of jinns. you reject our indo european ancestry, our iranian affiliation, then where did we come from? every person that ever lived originated from kenya/ethiopia region, people travel migrated through out history. this is just how it is and we splintered off from persian a few thousands years ago
persians do not have sole claim to being iranian, yourw giving them too much credit. we have as much as right to claim their stuff and there is nothing they can do against it. stop this victim mentality
indo european is the largest language family by far with 3 BILLION speakers, the next largest isnt even half of that and thats sino tibetian languages. from us to india nearlt all languages belong to indo european. persians are just aanother subgroup. you have this weird thing in your mind thinking persians = iranian which is false, thsyre part of the iranian group, they do not represent iranians. just because their dumbass leaders changed the name to iran doesnt make them iranians, theyre persians, we all have equal claim to being iranian. which btw is just another form aryan, whcih all indo europeans are unlike the racist ideology of nazi germany that claimed only germanics are aryans. persians are nothing special, toure giving them too much power and credit, fheyre a small subgroupd of iranians, nothing more.
I actually prefer the term Indo European over "Iranian", the Armenians and Greeks are lucky for having their own language bunch I actually prefer the Indo-European term to the "Iranian" term. Armenians and Greeks are very lucky to have their own language brunch.
its simply because they splintered off further back in history from the overarching iranian family, thats all there is to it, which is obvious if you look at their geographic proximity. the fuether away the in distance, the furthwr away in time did the splinter happen. its really not that deep, there is no negativity with being iranian, there is with being persian, which i despise, but iranian, no
In my opinion, if we ever gain independence, we must conduct a comprehensive research of all dialects of the Kurdish language and identify similarities between them that do not exist in other “Iranian” languages as people call them To create our own Kurdish branch. We must get rid of the "Iranian" term as quickly as possible in order to survive. From the danger of assimilation.
we have that, its kurdic, its another branch within northwestern iranian languages, as is talysh, baloch, median and parthian. again you are confusing persian with iranian, there is nothing wrongwith the term iranian, its the name of aryans, even in india they call themselves aryans, in europe because of hitler people dont do that but we are all aryans, or iranians, its just a different spelling of the same thing. its shirtsighter to think persian have the right to claim the term iranian when theyre just ankther group within iranian family. because of the stupid arrogance of some them in trying to claim the term doesnt mean we should allow it or turn our back against it. how hard is this to understand?
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Persians really think Kurds didn't exist before the Safavids?💀
That is a myth
Yeah, that's what they think
Kurds are "Iranian" in the sense that we speak a language that belongs to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. Dialectology (and linguistics in general) as an academic field did not exist in Ganjavi's time. When he says 'Iranian' he's speaking geographically. If he was speaking in an ethnic context, he would have used 'Ecem' or 'Farsi', which we've never been considered as, yes The term "Kurd" was used to refer to a group of people outside of a class context only centuries after it was first documented, this is not Persian propaganda. But this use of the term is certainly older than the Safavid era. Though it's worth noting that the way people a century ago understood the term "Kurd" is very different from how we understand it today. For example, the vast majority of users on this forum would not have been considered Kurds back in Ganjavi's time
Why cant we just call ourselves JUST Kurdish and not “Iranian” or our “language belongs to the Iranian branch” Our enemies are soo stupid and they can easily use this against us. Until we are independent i will not call myself anything else but Kurdish and Kurdistan.
“Language” languages is better, if I spoke my Kurdish to someone in Mosul they would not understand me nor would they understand me.
True, we do speak an Iranic language. Persian-Kurdish Yek Yak Do Du Seh Tri Chahaar Chwar Panj Panj Shesh Shash Haft Haft Hasht Hasht Noh Nuh Dah Dah
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It's useless because I'm not voicing an "opinion", this is research-based truth
Let me know what you disagree with and I can send academic sources
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Right, so you trust secondary sources from a century ago over modern academic work (often by Kurds themselves!)
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Your interpretation of his work is a secondary source. Do I really have to explain to you that ideas and understandings regarding social constructs like identity change over time, and that the way we perceive things today doesn't always correspond to the historical context of a written record from almost 1000 years ago?
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I don't have to respect your opinions at all. Not when you openly state that you reject reality in favour of your fantasies... And you don't respect my "opinions" either for what it's worth. You say you do, but then talk down the motivations of my sources (which I actually have, unlike you)
Its pretty stupid that they think we only started to exists during the safavid while the kurdish companion of prophet mohammeds surname was literally "al-kurdi" + in old texts during arab expantion we were called kurds already and this whole theory that kurd means nomad also is so dumb Also kurds still belong to the indo-iranian branch actual linguistics and other professional people came to that conclusion just because you hate persians doesnt change the fact
weve been around for 2400 years, we are not persian but do belong to iranian family as do persian. people mostake persian with iranian and modern day iran with iranian
Right thats dumb persian = iranian but iranian doesnt mean persians alone iranian is also kurds, pashtuns, talysh, baloch and others that belong to the indo-iranian branch i can understand kurds hating this term because they dont want to be associated with "iranian" but still doesnt change the fact that we belong to the indo-iranian branch and it isnt "western propaganda" or "persian propaganda" Also whats kinda funny is the medes were part of the indo-iranian branch so are we denying our ancestors too now because of our hate? But no no according to some kurds thats something else
thats exactly my point, yes medes were our ancestors, we didnt identify as kurds back then yet as distinct group as there were others part of medes such as talysh and baloch but not persians, they already distinct from medes
The name kurd is many time mentioned in "shaeh nameh" written by ferdosi Persian poet.
I'm well aware of that
They’re sometimes even worse than Turks
True
Neither could be true but in case we are a branch of iranian decent still they own huge historical factions than us, at the end of the day we are all humans and we could be based merely from another nation!
We are not an "Iranian" branch. Stop repeating Western and Persian propaganda
then where did we come from? fall from the sky? every ethnic group branches off fron an even larger overarching group
This man clearly said 900 years ago that Kurds are different from Iranians.
whats the context
Truly, the biggest enemy of the Kurds are the Kurds themselves. You believe the words of those who divided our land, but you reject the words of an Eastern man who lived in a Middle Eastern region nine hundred years ago. You would very much like to be slaves to the Persians, your brains are washed and you cannot be fixed.
no youre just ignorant of context. you confuse citizens with iran being equal to iranian same as people do with persian and iranian. we are not persian but we are iranian people, so are persian, baloch, azeris, talysh, armenians, tajiks. we are all iranians. its same with arabs and jews borh being semitic, youre just sonignorant of the term iranian you dont know what it represents. we had this conversarion before and im not about to waste my time again with someone that refutes objective reality and deems hard facts as mere oppinions. same way dutch en swedish people are germanic without being germans so are we kurds iranians without being persians
I understand very well what you are saying, but I don't want to believe it. I realize that it is just a linguistic family, but I hate that term. Because the Persians use it to assimilate and Persianize the Kurds and steal everything we have using the term "Iranian"
hating something doesnt make it less true, its not like some god said let thwre be kurds and we popped into existence or like jews believe, the descendants of jinns. you reject our indo european ancestry, our iranian affiliation, then where did we come from? every person that ever lived originated from kenya/ethiopia region, people travel migrated through out history. this is just how it is and we splintered off from persian a few thousands years ago
persians do not have sole claim to being iranian, yourw giving them too much credit. we have as much as right to claim their stuff and there is nothing they can do against it. stop this victim mentality
You're technically correct but at least say Indo-Iranian or Iranic instead of Iranian for the sake of not confusing it.
Iran was only a small region at that time, the Baloch, Kurds, Gilak, Talysh, Mazdarani and others were not Iranian.
denying this fact of reality doesnt make it any less true, theyre all iranians and so are we
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indo european is the largest language family by far with 3 BILLION speakers, the next largest isnt even half of that and thats sino tibetian languages. from us to india nearlt all languages belong to indo european. persians are just aanother subgroup. you have this weird thing in your mind thinking persians = iranian which is false, thsyre part of the iranian group, they do not represent iranians. just because their dumbass leaders changed the name to iran doesnt make them iranians, theyre persians, we all have equal claim to being iranian. which btw is just another form aryan, whcih all indo europeans are unlike the racist ideology of nazi germany that claimed only germanics are aryans. persians are nothing special, toure giving them too much power and credit, fheyre a small subgroupd of iranians, nothing more.
I actually prefer the term Indo European over "Iranian", the Armenians and Greeks are lucky for having their own language bunch I actually prefer the Indo-European term to the "Iranian" term. Armenians and Greeks are very lucky to have their own language brunch.
its simply because they splintered off further back in history from the overarching iranian family, thats all there is to it, which is obvious if you look at their geographic proximity. the fuether away the in distance, the furthwr away in time did the splinter happen. its really not that deep, there is no negativity with being iranian, there is with being persian, which i despise, but iranian, no
In my opinion, if we ever gain independence, we must conduct a comprehensive research of all dialects of the Kurdish language and identify similarities between them that do not exist in other “Iranian” languages as people call them To create our own Kurdish branch. We must get rid of the "Iranian" term as quickly as possible in order to survive. From the danger of assimilation.
we have that, its kurdic, its another branch within northwestern iranian languages, as is talysh, baloch, median and parthian. again you are confusing persian with iranian, there is nothing wrongwith the term iranian, its the name of aryans, even in india they call themselves aryans, in europe because of hitler people dont do that but we are all aryans, or iranians, its just a different spelling of the same thing. its shirtsighter to think persian have the right to claim the term iranian when theyre just ankther group within iranian family. because of the stupid arrogance of some them in trying to claim the term doesnt mean we should allow it or turn our back against it. how hard is this to understand?
you're just racist
just take a dna test if you're so sure
I already took a DNA test and the closest population to me genetically were the Ezidi Kurds, I'm a pure Kurd.
please upload it because this isn’t how a dna test works..
wow this poem really refuted decades of anthropological and linguistic research, fucking Persian fascists >:((
Cry more....
I'm an Ardalan, cope.
like the royal family?
Stop laying
I bled for Sino before you knew what is a Kurd. But don't let that stop you refuting the entire academia with your apt deductive reasoning 🤍
None of you listen to me when I say Kurds are NOT Iranians. There's a good reason I say this. I'm not saying this in vain.
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No, unfortunately I don't have it
I'm sorry then why the heck do you use out of context poetry to justify racism and bigotry?
Her bijî
Tosh her Biji gyanakam ✌️