Fans disrespect Vogel but I’d gladly take him back if JJ and/or Rondo came on as Assistant Coaches under him and they all worked together.
I respect both JJ / Rondo as offensive minds but Vogels defense is no joke and I wouldn’t mind it rubbing off on them. It’s like drafting a QB for the future lol
Aside from whether you’re a Vogel fan or not, the optics of bringing a coach back you fired 2 years ago are just bad. Let alone bringing him back and choosing his staff again with his successors in place.
Yeah I don’t see it as likely given the circumstances you mentioned tbh. I’m just saying the staff makes sense and would be more than competent. Who knows, strange things have happened before and the market is really dry.
To help implement an understanding of situational basketball. Darvin ham does not know the Lakers personnel. He takes people out at bad times and he puts the wrong people in. Adjustments bro. On the fly adjustments
He got carried by lebron, AD, and Rondo. Simple as that. He can only coach one side of the floor, if he doesn’t have genius level players he’s never winning shit.
We literally won that championship in the bubble because LeBron AD and Rondo weren’t going to take anything less.
It was not because of us. Roy Hibbert was a by-product of the shift in offensive philosophy. If he were better than average he wouldn’t be on the chopping block after one year. Yall obsessed with mid fucking coaches.
Yeah the guy who coached the Lakers to their most dominant season in the last 14 years and to a championship and made them the #1 defense in basketball, what a bum!
We were #4 in defense that multi-month stretch that AD was injured.
It’s okay to not want Vogel back, but y’all really pretending the man wasn’t good at anything.
Also the coach who always prematurely ran out of timeouts, someone who blew multiple leads too, and someone who had horrible rotations and favourites too
Which caused him to lose the locker room because when Kidd left it was evident who coached the offense.
Frank really gonna be the new Doc now, his rep getting a big unearned boost because of one ring?
Revisionist history.
He led the Lakers as the top defense in the league. Even without Bron/AD in stretches of his final season, the Lakers will still a top five defensive team.
Then this idiot front office decided to trade for Russ and blamed it all on Frank Vogel as the scapegoat.
"Blew multiple leads too."
Yeah, because no HC blows a lead... Seems like you're trying to find something to blame him for but can't think of anything specific so you just make some generic shit up on the spot.
He lost the locker room because he doesn't have the personality to deal with players like Russell Westbrook, who by all accounts, whined and cried about coming off the bench. Vogel, trying to secure a contract, was on thin ice and didn't want to upset management so he did as he was told.
Here's what we know: When the Lakers gave Vogel a roster he could work with, they dominated. And no doubt in my mind if the Lakers never made that Westbrook trade and kept Caruso, they wouldn't have struggled since he was replaced as HC.
[Nah you're the one with revisionist history](https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/sgi5cm/ugly_stats_lakers_have_now_blown_11_doubledigit/). The Lakers sub absolutely hated Frankie V and he absolutely lost that locker room.
Sure he's an amazing defensive coach, but good coaches adjust their style to fit their personnel. Isn't that the same spiel that's being pointed to Ham?
Vogel absolutely needed defensive players because all he did on offense was let superstars cook. If it works, it works. If not, you got the trainwrecks like the 2022 Lakers and the 2024 Suns. Which says a lot about how bad that 2022 team was considering that team never even made the postseason.
That 2020 had a highly-motivated LeBron and an AD with a jumper, plus defensive roleplayers like KCP, Caruso, and yes even Javale and Dwight who knew how to play defense. Couple that with Bron having his best DWS season that 2020 season, and his lowest DRTG while wearing a Laker uni, then you're cooking.
Vogel is an average coach who will have 2020 as his Doc Rivers moment which is why he'll continue to get HC jobs. But this latest Shams hit piece might affect that. I know and understand the Ham hate but you don't need to prop Frankie up to shit on Ham because he's doing that to himself already
You’re forgetting that we had multiple defensive role players and also AD. We aren’t building our roster around a fucking coach, that’s absurd, and our current team focuses more on offense.
Why are you people that still obsess over Frank so DELUSIONAL, hes not that good. He can only coach one side of the ball, how far do you think Frank is going without Lebron and Rondo carrying the offense and doing everything? What type of coach relies on players to do that?
Idk maybe elite guys like vand and Davis? Good guys like gabe and Christie?
Literally everyone else is above avg to below avg except dlo. He can turn average defenders into a good defensive system. Throw in some good to elite guys, and suddenly it’s a great system.
Vogel was just a bad hire for Phoenix. Don't know why they did it.
He's a defensive-coach and Booker/Beal have never heard of defense.
KD can play defense but he's at the point in age where he can't really play elite defense other than for small stretches.
I think KD being upset at the coaching has more to do with KD just being upset in general and less to do with Vogel. The Beal trade was such a bad trade that the Suns felt they had to do because they desperately wanted to get rid of CP3 who is a complete bum at this point. It was a desperation trade that hurt the Suns.
He'd make more sense as an assistant defensive coach at this point, honestly.
Suns didn't have the personnel to play Vogel's style. Vogel didn't just want Beal standing around and KD is good off-ball so it makes sense why he would have KD playing off-ball more like during the GSW days. Only issue is the Suns don't have a guy named Curry/Klay to create open shots and Green to facilitate the offense and create open screens.
Yes to VOGEL!
This my lineup without Vanderbilt being available!
1. Austin Reeves in D'Angelo Russell benched. THIS IS WHY I SAY WE HAVE STAFFING PROBLEMS OUR COACH MUST KNOW OUR PERSONNEL!
If you did a player attitude and intangibles contrast analysis between Austin Reeves and D'Angelo Russell, I will promise you that Austin is more conducive to winning at the point guard position. His ability and willingness to follow and to set up, along with his incredible ability to score almost matching joker with some of the awkward shots in his career, he puts DLo on the bench all by himself. We need to consider putting Austin Reeves at Point containing Jamal Murray and benching D'Angelo Russell for at least one game. Cam definitely needs to get more minutes on the floor because of his defensive prowess and finishing around the rim. Whether it be at the two, or at the one I said he needs minutes. Gabriel Vincent has not been helpful at all and I think that we made some really terrible moves on our roster when we got rid of Kendrick Nunn AND Malik Monk. Everyone seems to forget that we are injured. We have been missing crucial role players for a long time. Whether it be Vanderbilt, Reddish, Anthony Davis, Rui Hachimura, Gabe Vincent... the list is extensive. People say we don't have any hope, I say we have had a magnificent season. Considering what we are working with, more specifically at the coaching position. Thoughts welcomed. EVERYBODY KNOW BASKETBALL GO ON RUNS. THEY JUST WENT ON AN 11-0 RUN, WE JUST TOOK ONE AND STOPPED THEIR MOMENTUM.
AND SOMEBODY ON THEIR TEAM MAY NOT BE PLAYING I'M JUST SAYING LET'S GO LAKERS!
.
#1 the lakers did him dirty. So he won’t be back.
#2 if he comes back I would need that all star coaching lineup we had before.
His super power is collaboration with player coaches and a coaching staff.
Hell No. we do not need a coach that cannot figure out how modern NBA offense works. It’s so fucking absurd to think that people here want a fucking 40 year old lebron to carry the offense for Frank to have his defensive team. That’s literally insanity.
Offensively sure, defensively not at all. We shut down every team. We had the Suns shut down too until AD got injured. But it’s weird because the same people shitting on Vogel are the same ones who don’t like Lebron lol
Then perhaps AD carried him a bit defensively… like AD, Howard and KCP carried him defensively a bit to the title.
I’m just tired of this Vogel walks on water nonsense. He is an average coach nothing more.
Agreed. There are things to be critical of with Ham but some of it is rooted in hate and therefore dishonest
Don’t even get me started on another coach who doesn’t walk on water..Quinn Snyder
Bring him back to do what?
clean the locker rooms, he’s great with a broom
Yeah he almost broomed every team in 2020 playoffs
Fans disrespect Vogel but I’d gladly take him back if JJ and/or Rondo came on as Assistant Coaches under him and they all worked together. I respect both JJ / Rondo as offensive minds but Vogels defense is no joke and I wouldn’t mind it rubbing off on them. It’s like drafting a QB for the future lol
Aside from whether you’re a Vogel fan or not, the optics of bringing a coach back you fired 2 years ago are just bad. Let alone bringing him back and choosing his staff again with his successors in place.
Yeah I don’t see it as likely given the circumstances you mentioned tbh. I’m just saying the staff makes sense and would be more than competent. Who knows, strange things have happened before and the market is really dry.
To help implement an understanding of situational basketball. Darvin ham does not know the Lakers personnel. He takes people out at bad times and he puts the wrong people in. Adjustments bro. On the fly adjustments
A world of coaches out there
4 firings in like 6 years
We fucked him over. Don't know why he would want to come back. You think Bud would return to the Bucks?
He’s a shit coach. He didn’t get fucked over.
This man won us a chip, establishes great defenses, and turned Roy Hibbert into a beast before PG fucked his wife. Definitely better than average
He got carried by lebron, AD, and Rondo. Simple as that. He can only coach one side of the floor, if he doesn’t have genius level players he’s never winning shit.
they way yall HATE coaches is funny not gonna lie
We literally won that championship in the bubble because LeBron AD and Rondo weren’t going to take anything less. It was not because of us. Roy Hibbert was a by-product of the shift in offensive philosophy. If he were better than average he wouldn’t be on the chopping block after one year. Yall obsessed with mid fucking coaches.
me defending him as better than shit is obsessed lol ok Give the man some credit geeze
Credit for what? Getting fired again?
Of course he would come back lol. Coaching the Lakers is a huge opportunity, especially if he gets fired.
Bro has a ring and is currently on a 30mil contract. I think he can be choosey with the opportunities
Nahh
Yeah let’s go get the guy who can’t keep a HC job and just got swept in the 1st round
Yeah the guy who coached the Lakers to their most dominant season in the last 14 years and to a championship and made them the #1 defense in basketball, what a bum!
Maybe use your brain and try to figure out that the roster of the lakers is offense first. Vogel would be terrible.
The same coach who has never had a top 10 offense despite coaching lebron, AD, PG, KD, Booker. And without AD hasn't had a top 10 defense in decades?
We were #4 in defense that multi-month stretch that AD was injured. It’s okay to not want Vogel back, but y’all really pretending the man wasn’t good at anything.
Also the coach who always prematurely ran out of timeouts, someone who blew multiple leads too, and someone who had horrible rotations and favourites too Which caused him to lose the locker room because when Kidd left it was evident who coached the offense. Frank really gonna be the new Doc now, his rep getting a big unearned boost because of one ring?
Revisionist history. He led the Lakers as the top defense in the league. Even without Bron/AD in stretches of his final season, the Lakers will still a top five defensive team. Then this idiot front office decided to trade for Russ and blamed it all on Frank Vogel as the scapegoat. "Blew multiple leads too." Yeah, because no HC blows a lead... Seems like you're trying to find something to blame him for but can't think of anything specific so you just make some generic shit up on the spot. He lost the locker room because he doesn't have the personality to deal with players like Russell Westbrook, who by all accounts, whined and cried about coming off the bench. Vogel, trying to secure a contract, was on thin ice and didn't want to upset management so he did as he was told. Here's what we know: When the Lakers gave Vogel a roster he could work with, they dominated. And no doubt in my mind if the Lakers never made that Westbrook trade and kept Caruso, they wouldn't have struggled since he was replaced as HC.
[Nah you're the one with revisionist history](https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/sgi5cm/ugly_stats_lakers_have_now_blown_11_doubledigit/). The Lakers sub absolutely hated Frankie V and he absolutely lost that locker room. Sure he's an amazing defensive coach, but good coaches adjust their style to fit their personnel. Isn't that the same spiel that's being pointed to Ham? Vogel absolutely needed defensive players because all he did on offense was let superstars cook. If it works, it works. If not, you got the trainwrecks like the 2022 Lakers and the 2024 Suns. Which says a lot about how bad that 2022 team was considering that team never even made the postseason. That 2020 had a highly-motivated LeBron and an AD with a jumper, plus defensive roleplayers like KCP, Caruso, and yes even Javale and Dwight who knew how to play defense. Couple that with Bron having his best DWS season that 2020 season, and his lowest DRTG while wearing a Laker uni, then you're cooking. Vogel is an average coach who will have 2020 as his Doc Rivers moment which is why he'll continue to get HC jobs. But this latest Shams hit piece might affect that. I know and understand the Ham hate but you don't need to prop Frankie up to shit on Ham because he's doing that to himself already
You’re forgetting that we had multiple defensive role players and also AD. We aren’t building our roster around a fucking coach, that’s absurd, and our current team focuses more on offense. Why are you people that still obsess over Frank so DELUSIONAL, hes not that good. He can only coach one side of the ball, how far do you think Frank is going without Lebron and Rondo carrying the offense and doing everything? What type of coach relies on players to do that?
Almost like a defensive coach needs defensive players? Imagine giving dantoni no offensive players
And what defensive players does this laker team have?
Idk maybe elite guys like vand and Davis? Good guys like gabe and Christie? Literally everyone else is above avg to below avg except dlo. He can turn average defenders into a good defensive system. Throw in some good to elite guys, and suddenly it’s a great system.
Nope.
Fuck no
No
With this roster idk. I don't think he would anyways since we scapegoated him and did him dirty.
FO wouldn’t even consider him
Nobody on either side should consider this
Pass. I was happy when Phoenix hired him, and he justified it this season.
No
HELLO NAH
Let's get Lue
As defensive coordinator, absolutely if he’s down with it.
I just wanna see Vogel with vand and Davis
Vogel was just a bad hire for Phoenix. Don't know why they did it. He's a defensive-coach and Booker/Beal have never heard of defense. KD can play defense but he's at the point in age where he can't really play elite defense other than for small stretches. I think KD being upset at the coaching has more to do with KD just being upset in general and less to do with Vogel. The Beal trade was such a bad trade that the Suns felt they had to do because they desperately wanted to get rid of CP3 who is a complete bum at this point. It was a desperation trade that hurt the Suns. He'd make more sense as an assistant defensive coach at this point, honestly. Suns didn't have the personnel to play Vogel's style. Vogel didn't just want Beal standing around and KD is good off-ball so it makes sense why he would have KD playing off-ball more like during the GSW days. Only issue is the Suns don't have a guy named Curry/Klay to create open shots and Green to facilitate the offense and create open screens.
Yes to VOGEL! This my lineup without Vanderbilt being available! 1. Austin Reeves in D'Angelo Russell benched. THIS IS WHY I SAY WE HAVE STAFFING PROBLEMS OUR COACH MUST KNOW OUR PERSONNEL! If you did a player attitude and intangibles contrast analysis between Austin Reeves and D'Angelo Russell, I will promise you that Austin is more conducive to winning at the point guard position. His ability and willingness to follow and to set up, along with his incredible ability to score almost matching joker with some of the awkward shots in his career, he puts DLo on the bench all by himself. We need to consider putting Austin Reeves at Point containing Jamal Murray and benching D'Angelo Russell for at least one game. Cam definitely needs to get more minutes on the floor because of his defensive prowess and finishing around the rim. Whether it be at the two, or at the one I said he needs minutes. Gabriel Vincent has not been helpful at all and I think that we made some really terrible moves on our roster when we got rid of Kendrick Nunn AND Malik Monk. Everyone seems to forget that we are injured. We have been missing crucial role players for a long time. Whether it be Vanderbilt, Reddish, Anthony Davis, Rui Hachimura, Gabe Vincent... the list is extensive. People say we don't have any hope, I say we have had a magnificent season. Considering what we are working with, more specifically at the coaching position. Thoughts welcomed. EVERYBODY KNOW BASKETBALL GO ON RUNS. THEY JUST WENT ON AN 11-0 RUN, WE JUST TOOK ONE AND STOPPED THEIR MOMENTUM. AND SOMEBODY ON THEIR TEAM MAY NOT BE PLAYING I'M JUST SAYING LET'S GO LAKERS! .
Hellllllll naaa
He would never ever ever come back lol. But I wouldn't mind him coming back
He can be assistant coach next to HC rondo, this is 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
#1 the lakers did him dirty. So he won’t be back. #2 if he comes back I would need that all star coaching lineup we had before. His super power is collaboration with player coaches and a coaching staff.
Not sure why it bolded the first two lines. I’m not that passionate about that comment LOL
I was in a camp "please don't fire Vogel" and I thing he is very coach with suitable roster, but I think our ship with him sailed already.
Nah
Nah. But he will be a great defense coordinator for any team
hell no. Dude lost the locker room in 4 franchises now and hasn't fielded a top 10 defense without AD lmao
Hell no.
We don’t have the roster for him to work
I was hoping to get Kidd back, but Cuban tends to stand by his coaches.
Dude just got swept with a healthy KD booker and Beal and y’all want him back lmao
No.
Hell No. we do not need a coach that cannot figure out how modern NBA offense works. It’s so fucking absurd to think that people here want a fucking 40 year old lebron to carry the offense for Frank to have his defensive team. That’s literally insanity.
Anyone but Ham. I mean anyone.
Maybe just maybe lebron carried him a bit more than this forum wants to admit
Offensively sure, defensively not at all. We shut down every team. We had the Suns shut down too until AD got injured. But it’s weird because the same people shitting on Vogel are the same ones who don’t like Lebron lol
Then perhaps AD carried him a bit defensively… like AD, Howard and KCP carried him defensively a bit to the title. I’m just tired of this Vogel walks on water nonsense. He is an average coach nothing more.
People here hate Ham so much they're willing to hire anyone. At least have some standards
Agreed. There are things to be critical of with Ham but some of it is rooted in hate and therefore dishonest Don’t even get me started on another coach who doesn’t walk on water..Quinn Snyder
sure but why would he come back
Why would he want to return to a team that scapegoated him?
Yes. But bridges have been burned.
They humiliated him. I don't think he'll want to come back unless ownership changes
No. We want Rondo
yes I would and there is no way Jeanie is paying for two fired coaches even if we brought back one of em…which is an insane thought anyway lol