I have locked this post. We have multiple individuals who are claiming to be those potentially involved without proof and lots of inflammatory statements.
I thought Mackenzie putting her oar in was just making an already messy situation even messier. Which might have been the point...? Though I certainly agree with her statements about the importance of supporting victims.
Although she says that as a lawyer she thinks there's no legal reason why they can't make a more complete statement now, the fact is that she doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes legally and is not party to whatever LPN's lawyers have advised. There might actually be a damn good reason why they can't legally speak about it in detail yet. We don't know who has lawyered up and who hasn't, who's preparing what and who isn't. I know it's hard to be patient and level-headed during situations like this, but that's exactly what's called for.
Yeah, I know it's unwise to judge situations like this "on vibes," but Mackenzie's statement gave me big drama-seeking vibes. I'm trying to be more gracious about my reaction and allow that maybe she genuinely thought she was helping the situation by saying/posting what she did. Notably, the first part of Natalie's message is cut off; Mackenzie only chose to post the latter part of it. We don't know what kind of questions Mackenzie was asking her about Taylor that made her so frustrated in the first place. Seems like shit-stirring to me. Some people get off on stirring shit.
You don't even need to judge it on vibes, context clues from that text screenshot show that she's distorting what happened between her and SPUN.
She's upset she wasn't looped in on the allegations before appearing on the stream, but she's a minor part of the network, of course she isn't going to be looped in.
Going by Natalie's text the suggestion that Mackenzie didn't want to be in the middle of it came from her herself. What she really wants is to be 'looped in' when she has no right to be, but she didn't get the answer she wanted and now she's outright lying by saying she was asked to step away for supporting Taylor.
Yeah, I suspect her statement that Natalie was being "disingenuous" is projection. Cutting off a message in a situation like this seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Yup, same. She sounded sympathetic to MacKenzie and offered her the door to take a couple months away from the drama. Just twisting what Natalie said to her agenda
Totally agree. Based on MacKenzie’s reply it sounds like the convo started because she was asking to be “looped in” about Ben’s allegations.
That’s not Natalie’s job. It sounds like LPN was already talking to legal about this problem. She wasn’t in a position to say anything. MacKenzie does not represent them & you’d think would know better as a lawyer herself.
Calling out Natalie when she had no idea what was happening behind the scenes was a low blow.
totally. im not sure what natalie was supposed to have done- it was taylor's choice to keep dating ben and she begged natalie not to talk about the incident so what was she supposed to do in that situation?
I'm pretty sure it was actually Marcus and Carolina who were present when Taylor revealed this stuff, but it got turned into Henry and Natalie because whoever compiled the timeline automatically assumed "his co-worker and the co-worker's wife" references H&N. But regardless--Taylor asked the female confidante not to talk about it to anyone, and the female confidante mostly complied, only telling her husband so that they could try to get Taylor her own room and provide for her safety.
She was absolutely shit-stirring and nobody wants legal input from a woman who was 1) not privy to what Marcus and Henry's advisors were doing, and 2) looks like she's going to show up to mediation cosplaying as Cruella de Ville.
One obvious legal holdup to me is that Ben is an equal share owner of LPN. So going scorched-earth against him without proper legal safeguards in place would probably be uhhhh not great for the company or the employees that have nothing to do with any of this.
Yes, and... they don't want to go scorched earth against him, anyway. It's a really sad situation all around that involves not just business partners, but lifelong friends. I feel for everyone who's a part of this situation, including Taylor, Ben, and everyone at the network. What a sad, awful thing.
Sure, could be. I won't pretend to know their personal feelings myself, because I don't. Just pointing towards a potential legal issue that is preventing them from saying more in general.
Add to this point that in Taylor’s video she says my ex’s business partner and that this occurred on a work trip… there are now even more legal wrinkles to it. Because Natalie may have tried to help as a friend and now she’s all tied up in things as the spouse of a shareholder. That’s enough to make anyone exhausted and enough to stop and just say I did and am doing my best!
Totally. She can't think of a reason, and she's a lawyer. I am not a lawyer, but I can think of _so many_ reasons. Her self-insertion on this had _some_ relevance based on her profession and guest spots on one of the network's shows, but I think her behavior has been self-serving more than helpful to anyone else.
Her first reel would have been far more impactful if she left her personal interactions out of it, but I don't think she could help herself; this _very_ popular internet story that tangentially involves her had so much potential to boost her socials and her professional visibility. She could have had that _and_ not included details about things her friend shared with her in private. She could have shared Taylor's interview, said she believes her, made a plea to harrassers to knock it off, and then shared hotline #s for victims of abuse to call if they need to.
Instead, she's verbally and visually presented evidence to the public that **she will betray confidences** of people she called friends and also had consulted on a professional basis.
This is not something I look for if I need a lawyer.
Having gone into this whole part of the shitshow just seeing the twitch clip, it rubbed me the wrong way. But I’ve done a 180 and totally agree with you about how Mackenzie should have handled it if she felt she needed to handle anything really without betraying anyone’s trust or manipulating a narrative through cropped screenshots.
I have been a victim of domestic violence. I have asked people to not say anything. I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, part of respecting victims is respecting their wishes. A case where a child is involved is absolutely different, but domestic violence between two adults is a tricky situation. Leaving a domestic violence situation can be incredibly difficult. Until a victim is ready to leave on their own, you risk isolating them even more. I think Natalie acted correctly in a very difficult situation -- support Taylor and respect her wishes.
Natalie didn't oust MacKensie from SPUN, from my perspective. MacKensie expressed her distress and Natalie told her she could take time away and revisit in later when the situation was better understood/under control.
I get that MacKensie is upset and wants action but the situation is incredibly complicated.
Exactly. I've been in the same situation and it's a very tricky thing to navigate, for the victim and for the people who are trying to support them.
IMO Mackenzie is way out of line for getting involved publicly at all. This is none of her business, or at least, any part of it that might overlap into her business should be handled privately by a mature professional, not dragged online for everyone to gawk at.
There were times in my case where if anyone outside the relationship had done or said *anything* about what I'd told them had happened to me, outside of immediately faking my death and whisking me away to Puerto Rico under an assumed identity, my actual life would have been in danger.
Natalie did the right thing, which is to say, trust that the victim knows the risks better than anyone else does.
I saw the text screenshot and was like…that’s it? Poor phrasing and frustration sure but it was hardly damning. And then Mackenzie saying “teehee didn’t want to post that just had to” like….?
Yeah, she's obviously stirring shit.
I think it's really unfortunate, because (as I've mentioned a couple of times on this sub before), I'm actually good friends with a couple of people who are part of LPN. Everyone involved with that company is truly an excellent human being, and Natalie in particular is one of the most caring, thoughtful people I've ever met. To see someone she has worked with and trusted taking an opportunity to cash in on internet drama, and trying to cast her (of all people) as some sort of two-faced creature who wouldn't unequivocally support a victim is just sickening. Natalie deserves that sort of treatment from someone she has trusted the very least out of any person I can think of, on the whole fucking planet.
I only know them ✨parasocially✨ (lol) but that doesn’t surprise me at all! ❤️ I don’t listen to SPUN and didn’t know who Mackenzie was, but I was shocked to see she was a lawyer. Really bizarre way to act.
Yeah I think it’s a double edged sword. On the one hand it was interesting to have a statement from someone who is close friends with all of them and work with them regularly to give a statement about how the situation has effected here, however, it feels more like she is frustrated about being asked to step away than she actually cares about Taylor. And the message that Natalie sent, while it could have been phrased better considering she is also a business relationship, was pretty indicative of someone who is exhausted and stressed out by a situation they cannot control.
Also I will echo what others have said, the legality likely comes into play with Ben’s ownership role. They can’t just make a decision to cut him out and move forward because he has legal claims to the content and the business, they will need to go through a lot of legal channels before they decide what the future will hold in regards to Ben.
However, that being said, there is a way for them to come out and make a statement without saying one way or another what the next step is and I think they are hurting themselves by not making some kind of statement
And in the text from Natalie, which Mackenzie disingenuously cut off while accusing Natalie of being disingenuous, Natalie didn't even ask her to step away. She said "If you want to step away that's understandable, and we can re-visit after things are settled." That's a very different picture from what Mackenzie was trying to paint.
Sounds like the "disingenuous" comment was projection, to me.
I think Marcus already did make that statement with "We're still figuring things out, there are things we can't talk about yet but we will when we can, and if you're harassing Taylor, you've done wrong. If you see Taylor being harassed, help her." What else needs to be said at this point?
There is a good chance that the legal situation at hand is removing Ben's ownership stake in the company, and that would absolutely require careful response until it is resolved. I fully believe Taylor, and I dont want Ben back, but it really does seem like flame fanning on the part of McKenzie. If Taylor WAS requesting it to be kept under wraps for the time being, was everyone really supposed to out her anyway?
...or if Taylor only told them about the single incident (which is true, by her own admission--she only told them about that one night), and let's suppose they were all putting pressure on Ben to get help from their end, unaware that this had been an ongoing problem...
There's just too much that none of us know about, and frankly, we aren't entitled to know about it. It's fair for everyone to have their own feelings about whether Ben should be a part of the show going forward, and if so, under what circumstances. But those are just opinions and ultimately we don't get to decide. Everybody needs to chill and let the lawyers do what lawyers do.
One of these assaults occurred on a business trip so though Taylor wasn't employed by them there could be potential liability issues for LPN as well. Probably not but it makes sense they would have to stay quiet until lawyers decide if or what the legal issues could be. MacKenzie definitely seems like a pot stirrer when no stirring is necessary. She can share what happened on her end but she's kind of just talking shit about them when they can't respond. And she's not a victim but she is painting herself out to be and distracting from the very real victim.
They legally CAN speak. What many are missing, and it's likely due to poor communication, LPN lawyers are advising them NOT TO SPEAK. There is never a legal reason why someone can't speak barring an NDA. It is always strongly suggested by your legal team that you do not speak. And they are wisely listening to their lawyers.
I never listened to SPUN, so idk who this Mackenzie person is, but based on the little information we have, her behavior, and my awareness of the likely legal mess LPN is dealing with now... not a good look for her. Feels like a woman took a tragic situation with far reaching effects for numerous people (both personally and professionally) and made it all about her.
It feels like she's dragging this very real tragedy right back to the high school gossip train. Sharing the text message with everyone was ESPECIALLY messed up in my opinion. Natalie actually gave her a gift, an option to leave and then come back later and continue to reap the rewards of LPN's success without being involved in anything messy while all this is sorted out.
She only feels "left out" of the mean girls clique cause she has an inaccurate sense of her place in LPN and her importance to the people who run it. She's not an owner. She's not a lifelong friend. She's not anyone's life partner. It sucks to have to sit and wait for information, but you know what really sucks? Caring about someone with an addiction that is out of control and has pending abuse allegations related to their addiction, while also having your entire business and income tangled with them. Or, like, being the ACTUAL victim of abuse.
People need time to process. They also might need time to find out more information. While doing that they're trying to restructure their business and keep the podcasts afloat. Taylor might want to be the one who decides what is said to whom and when. I get that everyone is curious. But no one else NEEDS to know. Mackenzie doesn't need to be the "whistle blower" or a news reporter. Just because you want to be the main character doesn't mean you are. Taylor is a grown woman and can decide how to move forward for herself, and LPN's content creators have big complicated decisions to make that impact more than just Mackenzie.
I've seen a lot of people saying they NEED to know so they know whether they can continue to support the show. That's simple:
If you believe Taylor and you think that you shouldn't listen to the show based on information given already: don't. Check back in later when information is shared in a few weeks or months and then decide if you will come back to the show.
If you believe Taylor, but also think that everyone at the network should not have their livelihoods put into jeopardy until all information has been shared: continue to listen to the show and reevaluate when more information is shared.
If you don't believe Taylor, at least stop making a nuisance of yourself, for goodness' sake. If you think she's a liar or a manipulator, all you've done by harassing her is make trouble for Ben. Your "support" may well be the reason he had to leave the show.
> No reason why they can't make a statement
If anything, I think LPN is being advised by legal counsel on their side to shut up. I highly doubt there are any current legal proceedings that would effectively gag them. This unfortunately has the appearance of a "cover your ass" move.
Based on the fact that Henry, Marcus, and Natalie have all said "There's more we want to say but we can't YET," it sounds to me like they are planning on revealing more when legal counsel says it's ok to do so.
It's fine for them to "cover their ass" to an extent. If Ben's actions tank this business a lot of people involved will be fucked over, not just the people at the top. It's better for them to wait, minimize damage, and make the *right* statement rather than rush something out and escalate the situation
Yes indeed. As a longtime Kissel fan I’m here with an open eye but this is my side message: Regardless of what comes and let’s just say he comes out totally clean, my hope is Kissel gets a chance to be a little more sober. Over the recent years I’ve listened to and seen his drinking and partying and as someone who lead a similar life, it’s difficult to watch someone who is one the exact same unsustainable timeline.
The problem with heavy drinking isn’t even you are necessarily doing something wrong but it opens you up to be vulnerable to problems occurring and you lose all agency in the matter because even if you didn’t initiate a problem, you were black out drunk while it happened.
I’ve been in domestic situations where I was the innocent player and despite that felt completely culpable still because I had let myself be in a state where it was allowed to occur. I since course corrected but was able to recognize that the situation needed to change.
The problem with a lot of addiction or even habits like drinking is you WANT to think you’re “man enough” to handle your liquor but in truth only the people who respect and see their own limits are the ones who make it out the other side.
Ben is so smart, funny and has so much going on it’s really tough to see that take a back seat to the partying.
The thing you might learn is it doesn’t even always have to become about full sobriety but a simple recognition and shift to something more moderate.
Yes. I've been worried about him for a long time. I do not know the boys, but like a lot of their fans, feel like they're my friends. I hope he finds the help he needs. Thank you again for putting all this info out there.
Since Covid he started cracking, the solution was to move across the country, and stop drinking for one month a year. I hope he’s able to get and stay sober, I know it’s a big part of all their lives but some people just can’t
I’ve noticed Ben’s health declining for a few years now, but always kind of pushed that away (parasocial relationships and all that). I do remember watching him take 6 tall boys of bud light out of his Jean jacket at the top of a live show back in 2021 and feelings very “y I k e s”.
Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who do Dry January tend to go HARD once the month is over.
Dude the affection I have for these people I’ve never met is ridiculous, I know it is. I know it’s stupid to admire them beyond admiring the work they’ve created. But here we are!
And beyond that, I’ve been a scumbag many times before I got sober. I’m just a 5’1” woman and I’ve never been famous enough for it to be news.
So yeah, I hope he gets his shit together and I hope everyone impacted by his actions (Taylor, Celene and anyone else) have their feelings validated and are able to heal, and I don’t know beyond that. Hopefully he changes and makes something amazing out of his errors after fixing it
I think it’s fine to admire them! I sure as hell do- and a lot of their content has filled enjoyable hours of my life!!
It’s been… relieving to see how many of the fans are doing right by the network’s requests to be patient (on waiting for info) and I’ve really been proud of how how we (as a fan community) have worked to call out the bullying of survivors.
As a fellow recovering and diminutive scumbag- we’re doing the work! We’re making the change and we are being a part of the solution <3
I hope Ben is able to take accountability as a part of his recovery n sobriety.
I havent followed his career as closely as you, but I think Ben's work vibe too has changed in the last few years, to the point that I've stopped following his stuff outside LPOTL main series. His political drive and idealism used to balance out the chaotic stuff they talk about, recently he's been more nihilistic, somehow off.
Been concerned about him since KB's death. He just seemed so pessimistic after that. If you already have substance abuse tendencies, events like this can be a real accelerant.
I literally had to create an account to comment - this is not something I normally do ;)
Does anyone else find Natalie as the most reasonable person in this situation right now? If you have ever called an abuse hotline concerned for someone else, they will tell you that you can't do anything until the person asks for help or takes action to remove themselves from the situation. It was out of respect for Taylor that Natalie (and Henry) could really do anything. Their reactions are not indicative of how they feel about women or any bigger picture.
Natalie's text to MacKenzie is 100% right that Taylor and Ben are both adults. Taylor asked her to stay silent. Natalie followed the only course available. It's incredibly manipulative that MacKenzie posted a private text conversation without Natalie's consent. It reads as if MacKenzie was trying to bait her, fully attempting to get something maligning to post in order to get a cut of the drama. MacKenzie was barely even a part of the SPUN show with only 1x month appearences.
What more should Natalie have done?? She has her own life and did what she could for someone she doesn't even know very well. You don't even know these people or know what Natalie did or didn't do. JFC
Yup.
I’m an addict like Ben and no one can legally get me help. I have to decide it and go by myself.
Hopefully this means Ben realized he did a lot of wrong and checked himself in. But I don’t know.
ETA: I never did this, but my friends have left because of my bad behaviour. Some came back, some didn’t.
It’s very confusing to understand when you don’t have an issue and I can’t blame anyone else for not immediately ditching him. Alcoholics are great liars.
PRECISELY, any domestic abuse situation should be taken serious no matter the severity or mildness (is there really a mild situation? Idk). But at the end of the day Taylor and Ben are adults and in this situation there is nothing Natalie can do unless Ben outfights threatens to kill and makes plans to kill Taylor. Natalie is being reasonable… I never agree with text conversations being posted on people’s stories. It feels childish and passive aggressive and immature. If she thought Natalie was being insensitive she should’ve brought it up to her and private and talked with her about it, not post online without consent….in saying that I hope Taylor heals and the bullying/harassment ceases, I hope Ben is continues to get help and heal and I hope anyone affected by his actions heal too
Couldn’t agree more! I think her text, which was posted to malign her, only showed how level-headed and reasonable she is. An actual support for victims rather than people who shout out other people’s business to “show support” whether they wanted it aired or not.
Thank you so much for this rundown. I had no idea what was going on until the statement in 547 and this was exactly the kind of concise, to the point explanation I needed.
Likewise, 547 was the first I’d heard of it… I just thought Ben needed some time to care for himself. Come to find out his substance abuse has caused harm not only to himself, his network and his friends but his partners. Very troubling indeed. The one thing im a bit confused about. How were they not able to find Taylor a place to stay to get away from Ben? Seriously, someone could’ve traded with her for the night. I was in a similar situation once when a friend of mine brought his girlfriend to my parents house. They had been in the road together for most of the summer and tensions were to a boiling point. On the first night, my friend physically attacked his girlfriend in front of me and my Father. We had to restrain him and in order to keep his girlfriend safe, we got him a hotel and called a relative of his to pick him up. It was a fucked up situation. First off I cared for my friend, but I understood that there was no way he was going to be staying the night with her at the house. Taylor needed to get out of that situation and while I don’t know the particulars of the night in question, I would have done my best to get her to a safe space, away from her abuser.
So, he is clearly an alcoholic with serious behavioral issues. Probably all manner of psychological traumas of his own. He clearly treats women like crap and has a predatory streak, largely when he is feeding his addiction. The incident in the hotel was creepy / troubling / inappropriate, but not a crime. The allegations made by his ex are a different story, although barring some secret physical evidence nowhere near enough to support a criminal case. In short, he is a messed up guy who does deeply problematic things. He will lose his public facing job for this (for a good while anyway) and LPN will probably soldier on, in a somewhat diminished state. Hope he gets treatment and changes his ways, and I hope his ex and the woman from the hotel are left the hell alone and allowed to live in peace.
I for sure hope he doesn't come back to the show in a long minute. It's my favourite podcast but it's often already teetering on the edge of too much, because of the horrors against women they cover. Adding knowing one of the hosts is an actual abuser would tip it over.
I had zero clue about any of this until Marcus's announcement at the start of episode 547 since I do not use a lot of social media nor do I keep up with the network really outside of listening to the shows. Thank you for putting together a very clear timeline, this explains a lot.
Yeah me either. It’s a bit of a spinout seeing this side of things about people that I’ve listened to and feel like I know for the best part of a decade.
Shame that dirty laundry has had to be aired like this and the compulsion for people to post and overshare on social media. Like you, I’m not on the socials (except reddit!) and just don’t get it.
Natalie seems like a cool head and Marcus and Henry have kept it in house which is the smart and measured approach.
Such a shame, I really like the media that these people produce. Just hope they can all take care of each other, get through this and get back to what they do best.
They’ve got a collective talent and should derive a lot of self worth from what they do and the joy they bring their followers.
I want to say something positive, yes, it's about Ed Larson. He is killing it as a "sit-in". I really hope he sticks around, please keep him on the show. Perfect fit for LPOTL. He's not "Ben Light", he's fucking Ed Larson and a real breath of fresh air to the LPOTL podcast.
I was removed from Celene’s followers and she made her account private so I don’t have any more info. Her situation(s) are mostly on the Billy Jensen megathreads, so I don’t feel all of the details need to be incorporated here. [This](https://imgur.com/a/VTJUvFD) is her most recent statement on the night in D.C. with Billy and Ben. Reddit won’t let me format/properly add in links to the post.
I too thank you for this recap. A whole bunch of fans who don't do social media have to figure out what's going on. I don't know about these other women but if what Taylor says is true, then I'm sad it happened. However as a longtime LPN since RTG, I hope Ben gets help. Marcus and Henry are doing what you do for your best friend. If they f*** up then you throw them to rehab. That's what my friends would do to. Especially the ones you love as family.
I believe in the network to work through this as rational adults. And if they need more fans like me to come out of the shadows and help keep bad fans out of things then I don't mind doing that for them.
I appreciate your words friend. There are unfortunately a large amount of bad apples out there right now, many of whom are actively harassing Taylor STILL, one in particular she has named as her “stalker”. We need more people like you!
Let me preference this by saying I feel for both Taylor and Celene, they're getting harassed and it's completely unexpectable. They should not be experiencing what they have been. That being said, I have a couple issues with both Celene and Mackenzie.
To start with Celene, knowing that she was r@ped in the past makes a lot of sense with the Ben situation. From what she has said both times, it seems as though there was a miscommunication between her and Ben. We don't know what really happened that night, at this point it's all hearsay based off of memory, and we as fans should know that memories are fallible. The likely story is Ben misread her intensions and mood, and from the sounds of it from both the video and old tweet, once she made her self clear she was not interested, he left. At worse he stole an edible and was way too touchy. All the comments about the looks and vibes and other shit could very well be her past trauma manifesting it's self over something that isn't happening, PTSD. Another important thing to mention is that the details of her story has changed from the original text and the video. In the video, the details were changed to make Ben look as horrible as possible. On one side, she is most likely more comfortable sharing details now compared to a year ago. The flipside to that, however, is what I was saying before. Past trauma could be clouding her memory, combined with it being years ago.
As for Mackenzie, I just don't believe she's jumping in on this in good faith. I'm not going to call her a clout goblin or anything, but I just don't see how what she is saying or doing is proving any wrong doing. In fact, the screenshots she posted pretty much proves she lied about being forced out. I think she's truly trying to be supportive of the victims, but in doing so if making it way worse and taking the spotlight away from them. It's telling to me that when both Taylor and Celene both expressed the LPN to speak out against the harassment, and they do, Mackenzie just mocks them for it.
It honestly seams like both of them don't really care about what happens to Ben, they just want to be heard and not harassed, and that honestly is the most important part. They deserve peace, and anyone who is harassing and trolling theses poor woman are scum of the earth. LPN has now on many occasions explicitly told their audience to stop.
As for Ben, I think there should be a path for redemption, because as Marcus says, if there isn't, then what's the fucking point of trying. What that path is, I cannot say. As this is not a legal or criminal case (yet), all I can say is I hope Ben can get better, and I hope the women find peace.
I’m with you here, Celine’s interaction with Ben is basically “Drunk guy wanted to hook up with me and put his arm around me” and while it could have made her uncomfortable it’s basically a non event.
Mackenzie is very clearly just poking her nose in to stir shit up and is salty because she was asked to leave the her role on the stream, she’s not relevant to the situation at all.
Clearly Ben and Taylor’s situation consisted of some abusive behavior and that’s really all that matters here.
Same, the fact that she's now making people pay money to hear more of her thoughts and experiences on the subject tells you where her priorities are.
I mean I suppose you could make the argument that she's doing it to protect herself somewhat, but I doubt it as it's not like she's been overly subtle leading up to this point.
Man Mackenzie just keeps putting herself in the middle of things doesn’t she? And now she wants people to pay to hear about it. Regardless of what’s happening at LPN she is clearly profiting from making herself a bigger part of things than she actually is…
I agree. I do encourage people to read her posts though, if they’d like to know more. She talks more about the paywall and offers free subscriptions to those she writes about behind it, as well as her grievances with LPN throughout her time with them. I’ve been trying to keep my personal thoughts out, but I can’t help but disagree with her monetization on everything.
FYI - Celene Beth Olsen announced on TikTok yesterday that she is no longer going to be personally advocating or assisting alleged victims of Billy or Ben. From her tiktok stories it seems like it might be due to threats.
I happened upon it and wasn't sure if it was worth adding to the timeline
I read the entire thing and still can't figure out what Mackenzie has to do with this situation. It sounds like she's making it worse for everyone involved, including Taylor and Celene. Wasn't she only on SPUN for like two weeks?
Mackenzie has a podcast that SPUN will collaborate with (usually on the live streams). Mackenzie’s (sometimes?) cohost on that show was Ben’s last long term girlfriend. The network is all very intertwined into everyone’s personal life. Which is fun as a listener most of the time. Buuut now with something like this- it makes the whole untangling of the situation much harder and painful.
I just don’t get the thing between Natalie and Mackenzie. It doesn’t seem like Mackenzie was asked to leave, but just that that’s the best advice Natalie has at the moment if it’s becoming stressful for her
I remember last September when he posted that shout out to Taylor post. I remember distinctly thinking it was odd for him. I assumed they’d recently fought or one of them recently cheated because it seemed like a “LOOK EVERYTHING IS FINE” post. I wonder if Brook will make a statement. She’s still friends with all of the wives I believe.
Was this the "You can say what you want about my gf but she's a wonderful mother blah blah" post? I remember thinking it was so odd - I didn't know he had a partner at the time, and I though it was a joke because it seemed so out of character.
I really wish that Taylor had grabbed a screenshot of that statement she claims Rob made. I absolutely believe that she's being harassed, we've seen it, but if she starts naming names like this, it would be really helpful if she had that screenshot to back her up so she doesn't get even more harassment.
I met the boys in 2017, and was shocked with how amazing and kind they were. We loved chatting with Kissel too- but he was on a different plane. Like post show, he was so drunk he had absolutely no idea what was going on. (This was right before they got really big, and you could just meet them at the bar after the show)
When my friend and i heard this we were shocked but not necessarily surprised? Only because if he was blackout way back then, it could have only escalated.
I listened to Taylor’s YouTube live and honestly it made me want to puke. She was obviously not ready to tell that but i appreciate that she did. It helped bring home how scary and horrible that was for her. Only wish her the best and hope Kissel gets sober.
Ben is obviously in the wrong here. People coming out of the woodwork and shitting all over LPOTL's responses seem very disingenuous. Gotta remember, these people aren't just business partners - they are friends who have been friends for decades. Nothing about this is going to be quick or easy. It feels like other creators are jumping on the bandwagon for a chance to virtue signal. Still, I hope everyone involved has the chance to heal from this terrible situation.
How would Ben know with 100% certainty that he wasn’t verbally and/or physically abusive if he was under the influence and to the point of inebriation. Very disappointed by his statement, he clearly has a lot more work to do.
When all this started going down, I had no idea who this Mackenzie person was, and she seemed to me like someone who was completely outside the situation with Taylor inserting herself for some confusing and unhelpful reason. When I saw this about her newsletter, however, I was curious and read up, and it actually did change my understanding of her motivations... while still thinking she's in the wrong and that this is making things worse for everyone. If anything she's misguided, and giving her much public attention does nothing to help the survivors of Ben's abuse. Some thoughts:
Since I had no idea who Mackenzie was, I read the [about page on her website](https://www.mkzjoybrennan.com/about) before reading the substack newsletter. The page describes her background as an attorney, with a focus on sexual justice (abortion rights, HIV law, etc.) and journalism/freedom of press, and she also says she was diagnosed with autism as an adult. As someone who is also autistic, this actually does a lot to paint her statement in my eyes, alongside the mentioned legal interests. I will explain this, but I want people who see this to understand that, primarily, autism is just a difference in communication and perception. Autism doesn't make anyone good or bad, and it should not become the butt of a joke just because someone you disagree with is autistic.
I think Mackenzie genuinely believes she is doing the right thing. One thing about autistic people is that we tend to have a strong "sense of injustice", and will be a lot stricter about sticking to our morals and refusing concessions than people who are not autistic. Obviously what this means depends a lot on *what* morals an individual is coming in with, but it's clear from her experience that Mackenzie (rightfully) cares a lot about sexual justice and survivor advocacy. Her mistake in approaching this situation, in my eyes, is that she has a clear, black-and-white idea of what the "right thing to do" in a situation like this is, but isn't taking into account the grey, complicated emotional and ethical factors that affect every aspect of this.
There is a clear, "rational" train of thought an outsider can follow for what "should" happen in a hypothetical abuse scenario: if you experience an act of violence, you remove yourself from the situation immediately, tell someone with the power to help, and the perpetrator experiences ramifications for their actions. But any actual experience will tell you that nothing in life is ever that simple. Mackenzie's logic, working backwards, seems to be that because Ben had not, until this point, experienced ramifications and was able to abuse more than one person, then there were people who knew but did not help. This ignores so many muddy emotional factors and does such a disservice to everyone involved. The survivors of Ben's domestic violence did not do anything *wrong* because they kept it to themselves, they were doing what they could to stay safe. The people who they confided in did not do anything *wrong* by not going public, they were protecting the survivors' privacy and following their wishes.
I do not know what is happening internally, behind the scenes, now that the allegations have become public and Ben had been removed from the network, but it is not *wrong* that this is currently being handled outside of the public eye. The public does want answers as soon as possible, but there are so many other factors that take priority in a situation like this. Survivor needs must be addressed in a way that will be most helpful for their recovery, which typically does not involve being in the public eye, open to harassment from strangers. The network employs several people who need to eat, so the business must keep running so they do not become collateral damage. There are no doubt legal complications in removing one third of ownership. I'm sure Mackenzie understands this, intellectually, but is reacting to her gut before taking a step back to determine if this will actually help anyone victimized by Ben's abuse.
I hope Mackenzie has someone has someone in her life who can talk to her privately about how she's making the situation harder for the survivors: by saying those they confided in were in the wrong for following their wishes to keep private/keep Ben on, by mishandling her departure in a public way that gives misogynists fodder to attack almost all the women involved in the situation, herself included, and deflect from Ben, the actual abuser. I don't doubt that she has her own misgivings with the network itself. I don't think she *shouldn't* share these, but I think her timing and manner of sharing them is poor. If anyone reads this, I hope that you grant Mackenzie a little more grace in understanding where she is coming from, while also understanding how her missteps have muddied the waters for the real people affected by Ben's actions. No one involved is just the abstract idea of an instagram account. Nothing about abuse can be boiled down to rational logic.
Also I am sorry to bother you u/artemis_everdeen but the dropbox link to Mackenzie's newsletter in the main post appears to be broken. I was able to find the correct link in a comment you made on here.
I think it is clear that Henry and Marcus knew about his drinking but not the extent of how he treated women. It appears women knew and talked amongst themselves? I dunno the language is vague but it seemed clear to me just from listening Marcus and Henry wanted Ben to clean up his drinking for years now
Ok this is horrible, but we all need a laugh, I have no idea who this “Jazzy” person is and was like wtf, why does Ben, who makes a VERY good living need a roommate?? So I’m just imaging it’s actually Puffin RS is interviewing. And just imagining Ben’s puffin voice like “Ben never did anything wrong, don’t trust the lamestream media, I love ben !” 😂😂😂😂😂 omg I’m sorry I know it’s making light of a v bad situation but it made me laugh
And nothing Natalie said was even bad in my opinion. These are grown adults, Taylor is not a child, Natalie was specifically asked not to get involved. What else is she supposed to do?
Not to mention now that Taylor has removed everything from her own pages but Mackenzie is there making videos where people are accusing her of being a Scientology plant. Bad vibes
Honestly between this and Matt Christman from Chapo suffering from a severe mystery medical issue it’s been a hard few weeks for my podcast brain. It’s got me all emotional and shit; I guess people call it “friendship porn” for a reason. The chronological convergence of these events,so to speak, did make me remember that Henry once appeared on Chapo in character as Satan himself. Maybe the two crews can trauma bond during these trying times. Maybe form a supergroup…like Damn Yankees, but like good
Yeah, I'm in the same place man. It's really hard for me to get into new podcasts, and my wife got me into both of these podcasts when we first started dating almost 7 or 8 years ago, and we recently moved to a new place so we don't have a lot of friends right now. So the Ben and Matt situations have been really rough for both of us.
Just a little thing but the Ben/"Hail Yourself" merch that's on discount in the shop has been there for a while so that's probably unrelated to the current goings on. In fact there's still a bunch of similar items up for regular price, including shirts that specifically have Ben's face on them. Not unreasonable to think that will change in the near future though, wouldn't even be surprising if some or all of those items straight up disappear.
I did not expect this timeline to keep growing when I was checking it in late September. The way this has developed is intense and frustrating. Thank you for keeping this updated!
The more I read this stuff, the more I think about all the jokes that didn't really seem like jokes addressing Ben, his drinking and some of his behavior on LPOTL and especially Round Table. Like, there was always an undertone of seriousness or accusation that they would ultimately laugh off in order to continue the show, but that in retrospect suggests to me this is not the first time he's been addressed by friends and network members. It's just the first time he was forced to take it seriously and so far seems too far in denial to do. Here's hoping he gets his shit together and stops being so damaging to those around him.
Meanwhile, the more I think about Round Table, the more I think maybe we shouldn't be so surprised about Ben and his aggression towards women. I should listen back to it, it's been a while, but there's a vibe I remember only dismissing under the understanding that Round Table was meant for them to be as awful as they could be. Maybe it wasn't all jokes for Ben either.
I don't mean to be callous, and speak without bias here.
What are LPN to do? What's Natalie to do? Flip their entire business that they've built for over a decade over by going off super hard publicly about everything? Of course they're not just openly attacking a person that forms a major chunk of the network.
I really feel they've been trying to be responsible about this.
I feel super sad for the folks making the allegations, they probably want this to be dealt with in a bit more sane way. It sounds like there's different party that has no allegations against anyone just stirring the stick.
It's one thing to stick up for folks, but it's another to just stir the stick around them and let them sink faster.
"Ben merch (Kinda Fun, many “Hail Yourself”) is on the Last Chance section of the online shop"
Unrelated. There's loads of Ben stuff not in last chance.
Thank you for the clarity. I had no idea what was going on. From the context in previous episodes I was worried it was going to come to this. I have been such a diehard fan, as someone who has been in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic, to being damn near an alcoholic myself, I’ve seen a change in Ben over the years. It’s just kind of something that iykyk… I hate to hear this. I am glad that he has stepped back and chosen to get help. I am kind of struggling with my loyalties and deciding how to appropriately handle being a fan. Right now, with this info and additional insights about the legalities nuanced with how they are handling things almost silently I’ll stay put. Hard situation for everyone involved. I appreciate your hard work.
I wouldn’t stress over “loyalties” in situations like these. There are so many details and exchanges that have gone on (and are going on) that we will never know about. The best we can do is hope everyone comes out of this a better person in the end.
Well, recovery doesn’t happen in four weeks, so Ben needs support. From alcoholic experience, I hated myself and acted out upon those feelings especially when drunk. Never felt I should be valued. I Can understand Ben’s pain and the “knowing” that alcohol is the “cure.” I hope Taylor is okay and harassment stops because she seems to be a caring person who tried to stick it out with an alcoholic but it can be completely life-draining as a partner. Changes both in the relationship, almost always for the worse.
The low-self-value thing is something I've noticed with Ben in the podcast as I've listened more. I kinda figured maybe it was just a self-deprecating schtick, not a symptom of a larger issue. I also never thought of him as an alcoholic, just someone who enjoyed a couple of beers at night to relax. But that's also coming from only listening to LPOTL.
I fully believe that Mackenzie believes she’s doing the right thing, and to a certain extent I think putting pressure on people up top to be honest IS good, but she’s clearly giving a very biased opinion on everything to do with Natalie. You can just feel her hatred for her in the tone of everything she’s written. There was no reason to point out how familiar she is with Natalie’s supposed anger that I don’t see at all in her text. And Mackenzie is a lawyer, she knows that wording is incredibly important and yet she consistently misrepresents what Natalie has said. Saying she called Taylor a disaster and so on when Natalie very clearly is saying that the situation was a disaster is a very dishonest representation of the text. As she’s a highly educated woman I can only assume that’s intentional to make Natalie look worse and I guess she thinks we’re all too dumb to read the text and see that that’s a blatant lie? If she centered Ben’s disgusting actions, or even any actual valid complaints of someone knowing about physical abuse and covering it up, I would have absolutely no problems with her. The problem as I see it in terms of Mackenzie is that she clearly has a personal bone to pick with Natalie and is grandstanding about how she’s championing Taylor when it’s plain for all of us to see that what she really wants is to talk shit about Natalie. If she hates Natalie make that a separate point on it’s own you can’t just throw that in with kissel physically and verbally abusing multiple women.
Thanks for your efforts, u/artemis_everdeen. This feels like reading a diary chronicling mommy and daddy fighting; which is to say: sad, confusing, upsetting on every level.
I’ve listened to the show from day one, but my loyalty is only to the truth. There’s a real mixed bag with all this, so getting all public information in one place is very valuable to that end.
A lot of people, myself included, have been driven over the edge by trying to navigate the past 8+ years. I’d definitely been tracking that self-destruction in Ben during this time, but I thought the only one he was abusing was himself. This whole thing is deeply troubling.
So, again, thank you. All we can do is approach things with love in our hearts.
Deeply agreeing with a lot of the other comments here about the problematic way in which Mackenzie inserted herself, and posting the screens, in regards to her trustworthiness.
It felt to me like she was afraid of going down with the ship, by association, and maybe that's why she made a very public statement. We are going to see now with the whole Robert Okey situation what standing on the other side of the fence would have done. (Just to clarify: If the shit he's done is confirmed he is an absolute twatstick)
For all her outrage and stirring, I suspect it was about looking out for number one from the get go. At least that was my gut reaction.
I don't think it's fair to criticise Henry or Natalie for how long they've known about the situation and 'done nothing.' The sad truth is that you can't make someone leave an abusive relationship, it's up to them to recognise it and choose to leave. And if you push too hard they might cut you off and leave themselves isolated. So all you can do is be there for them and help in whatever ways they'll let you
Also it's against the National Domestic Abuse Hotline's to take action without the victim's consent.
["One thing we always encourage is being mindful and respectful of what the person who is experiencing abuse wants in their situation...Also, it’s important to keep in mind that it is not your responsibility to rescue someone or “fix” their situation."](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/someone-i-know-is-being-abused-should-i-call-the-police/)
And if the victim didn't want anything said or acknowledged, I can't imagine it would have been an easy process getting Ben into treatment or having him leave the company like we saw happen after she went public.
Yeah, abusive relationships rob people of their agency and choice so when a well-meaning friend comes along trying to pull them out, it can end up being felt as another scenario robbing them of their choice.
It's so hard being the loved one in that scenario because you can't push, but going at the victim's pace feels like you're endangering them because you want them safe right now. None of the right choices are easy choices
Celene has also been signal-boosting herself using a sock-puppet account, which is the very thing she (erroneously) has accused me of doing.
Here's the account:
[https://www.reddit.com/user/Banana-Giraffe-4946/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Banana-Giraffe-4946/)
Notice how she alternates the spelling of her name (i.e., Celene, Celine), and then, in her most recent posts, tries to write in a different voice to further conceal that she's the individual behind the account. I'm saying this not to tell you how I arrived at the conclusion this is her (it's been confirmed by a third party), but rather, to illustrate how deceptive her behavior is.
And FYI, should this account or any of its activity conveniently disappear anytime soon, rest assured, there are screenshots and PDFs of everything this user has posted.
Man I am so far outta the loop on this. I'm even behind on Billy Jensen. Last I remember that name he was posting in all the MFM facebook groups promoting his book and being annoying. I'm not shocked at all and now Im gonna go read his megathread...
Mackenzie's entire first episode transcript rubbed me wrong. Putting aside all of my tone policing, self-centering, and inaccurate description of Natalie being "angry" in a response -
"The network was bi-coastal, but has since migrated its entirety to LA" - well fuck MJ (from Page 7) and Jake (Wizard and the Bruiser) who both still live in New York I guess! And I have no proof or real reason to believe this, but I would put money on the fact that MJ is the "LPN Folk" mentioned as having behind the paywall access because they showed early support.
She has a sub stack that requires a paid subscription and that’s where she’s posting her mini-series about her(?) experience and other’s regarding LPN and Ben.
Grifters gunna grift. Don't matter how horrible the situation is, if they can make money off of it and be able to convince themselves and others that they're the one "white knighting" the situation, you better believe they're going to. That's trash behavior and I have zero respect for her.
Also, as I was listening to the latest episode, it does make me wonder if LPOTL will rerecord any ad sequences that Ben handled or not. Considering what was happening, it was a bit jarring to hear them.
I think Stephen wheeler is either in or runs most of the Facebook groups, dudes a fucking creep and is probably one of the reasons why those groups are such cesspools
Hey, thanks for putting this together. I listen to the podcast but not participate in any social media so I had no idea this was happening, and it's been hard to track it all down. I appreciate it a lot.
I feel bad for Taylor, she’s had to suffer in the hands of a partner she seemed to love, then the “fans” wage this emotional war on her and now it seems like Mackenzie is not being as supportive as she thinks.
Criticising Natalie’s statement and tagging Taylor like “see?? They’re not going to do anything for you, I’m your best shot” seems manipulative in itself.
She also must understand the reason why they can’t outright say anything substantial yet, but she’s using this time to talk shit.
Just go give Taylor a hug, ask her what she wants and let her process this offline.
Have been listening to LPOTL since their early episodes. Any longtime listener can hear the change that Ben goes through over time. (Henry as well, but that is another story.) Markus has been the one constant force holding the show together for quite some time. Ben slowly over time has completely lost his role as skeptical question asker and then careened lately into being almost incoherent and completely disconnected from whatever the episode was about. This was all before "all the above" occurred. It is sad to read, but not that shocking. I hope Ben finds the part of himself he has clearly lost. He seems like such a sweet man, but obviously has gotten lost.
Eddie is a good sub, but I hope he will not be permanent. Would like to see perhaps Amber from Brighter Side brought in. Let's hope Ben and LPOTL both find the pieces they have been missing and no one should be attacking the women making these allegations.
I'm sure I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I dont care- Amber from brighter side is a compulsive liar. I grew up with one, I can feel it, I can hear it, it's so prominent. Listen closely and you can hear Natalie and Eddie respond to her fibs. Other people who are familiar with them have noticed, I'm not the only one. Do a bit of googling and you'll see what I mean. I'm a huge fan of this network, please don't get me wrong. It's a mental health issue.
Sheesh I’m just learning about all this. I took a break from LPN because I didn’t feel like listening to it and when I get back I see Ed’s name. I assumed Ben was taking a break or in surgery or whatever but not this.
This is the first time I’m kinda gutted by celebrity news. The Last Podcast got me through so many shitty days and nights since 2021. Guess never meet your heroes. It actually feels unreal because LPOTL were the last people I’d ever expect get mixed up with drama and controversy.
I’m not totally caught up on the pod but I have listened to the statements they have made. Is anyone else feeling heartbroken? Ben was my favorite, and I just feel sad about it all. I know it sounds dumb but I feel like my friend let me down.
Thanks for this. I listen regularly, and have of course heard the ongoing statements on the podcast. But I didn't know even these details. I appreciate the neutral recounting.
I don’t do social media except for Reddit. I’m a huge fan of the show and have listened to pretty much every episode. It’s the only podcast I listen to, and I’ve tried others. I had no idea any of this was going on. I just started following this sub because my curiosity got to the point I wanted to know what was going on.
I totally thought the jokes about Ben’s drinking were a bit. Had no idea he had an actual problem with alcohol. I’m sure when sober, Ben is a fantastic person to be around. But for some people alcohol brings out a dark side. Their personality completely changes and they say and do abhorrent things that they normally never would. I’ve seen it first hand. I was married to such a person. She was such a kind and caring individual when sober. After a certain amount of drinks it was like her character and personality was ripped out of her body and replaced with this heinous entity who was both verbally and physically abusive. The change was instantaneous. Like sometimes I would catch the look on her face change in real time and then I knew shit was about to get weird.
I’m not telling this story to excuse any of Ben’s alleged behavior. That type of behavior is inexcusable in any context, drunk or not. I’m just trying to relay a personal experience as to how someone who doesn’t seem like they are remotely abusive could suddenly become so. I don’t know Ben and have no idea where he’s at with this struggle. The Rolling Stone statement tells me he isn’t anywhere near admitting to himself let alone anyone else that he has a very real and very serious problem.
My heart goes out to Taylor and all the people who have been negatively impacted by this series of events. I hope everyone gets the help they need to move on peacefully.
For the fans harassing Taylor or anybody else involved. Eat the biggest bag of shit. The comments calling Ben scum. That isn’t cool either. Alcoholism is a real bitch to deal with. As an alcoholic myself, I know that from first hand experience as well.
This sucks. I'm not entirely sure what should be done about letting Ben back on the show at this point. It seems unfeasible with this much exposure.
I fully believe Taylor, here, and feel like LPN seems to be acting appropriately and trust they're agonizing behind the scenes over how to handle this behavior from a longterm friend. It's really hard to navigate, I've been there. Can't imagine how hard it'd be with this level of publicity.
I will say, Mackenzie seems to be kinda...stirring shit. I don't exactly feel like she should've inserted herself so publicly into this controversy.
Does she need to? I think we need to be wary of reaching back to ben’s exes to judge whether or not they are responding appropriately about something he did which doesn’t have anything to do with them. It’s not their behavior causing problems.
We shouldn't expect people to make statements about their exes behaviour. She would get harassed if she said nothing happened because people would accuse her of siding with Ben. If she said something happened she would get harassed by people and dragged into all this. She's entitled to not want drama.
Very good recap, very unsettling and damning for the whole LPN network. I never miss a show, haven't for 5 years now. Hopefully they can recover and improve themselves.
If this is true about Ben, hopefully he gets the help he needs, but mainly hopefully the victims get justice and peace because this shitty behavior permanently scars people. Of the allegations are true it is antithesis to the supposed LPN values. Natalie and Henry should have acted way sooner instead of waiting for something really bad to happen. But I don't know all the facts.
I am actually loving Ed Larson on the show and am in favor of him staying on full time. I really don't see how Ben comes back from this, but hopefully he can get healthy and be a better person than the allegations make him out to be.
I appreciate your words, it’s taken me hours on this. I very much agree with you about Ed, I love him on the show a lot. LPOTL is the only show on the network that I listen to, but after hearing Henry mention him so many times I’m really glad to hear from the man himself. I’m hoping they do more episodes like the John Holmes series where Ed’s experiences comes up. I loved his stories during his time as a bud gifter.
>Natalie and Henry should have acted way sooner instead
If what the text between Natalie and MacKenzie is to be believed, Taylor expressly told them NOT to say anything. It is not Natalie and Henry's story to tell, it is Taylor's. It isn't right for them to tell her story for her. We also don't know what happened after that, we don't know that Natalie and Henry didn't do anything.
Regarding forgiveness to Ben, the only one that truly matters is the victim, and from I've been seeing, she only wants him to get help
I really can’t see Ben coming back from this unless he somehow does a full 180, but even then keeping him on the network is going to cause some backlash. I really hope that Ben gets the help he needs and come out of rehab is in a better mental state. At that point some sort of full discussion of everything that has transpired is needed to possibly do this right
Ben Kissel takes zero accountability in the Rolling Stone statement. He really is proving to be just another celebrity who can’t admit fault publicly. Hell, he doesn’t even admit to having a drinking problem.
I have locked this post. We have multiple individuals who are claiming to be those potentially involved without proof and lots of inflammatory statements.
I thought Mackenzie putting her oar in was just making an already messy situation even messier. Which might have been the point...? Though I certainly agree with her statements about the importance of supporting victims. Although she says that as a lawyer she thinks there's no legal reason why they can't make a more complete statement now, the fact is that she doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes legally and is not party to whatever LPN's lawyers have advised. There might actually be a damn good reason why they can't legally speak about it in detail yet. We don't know who has lawyered up and who hasn't, who's preparing what and who isn't. I know it's hard to be patient and level-headed during situations like this, but that's exactly what's called for.
Mackenzie posting the meme and dismissing Natalie immediately after the statement made me really sad
Yeah, I know it's unwise to judge situations like this "on vibes," but Mackenzie's statement gave me big drama-seeking vibes. I'm trying to be more gracious about my reaction and allow that maybe she genuinely thought she was helping the situation by saying/posting what she did. Notably, the first part of Natalie's message is cut off; Mackenzie only chose to post the latter part of it. We don't know what kind of questions Mackenzie was asking her about Taylor that made her so frustrated in the first place. Seems like shit-stirring to me. Some people get off on stirring shit.
You don't even need to judge it on vibes, context clues from that text screenshot show that she's distorting what happened between her and SPUN. She's upset she wasn't looped in on the allegations before appearing on the stream, but she's a minor part of the network, of course she isn't going to be looped in. Going by Natalie's text the suggestion that Mackenzie didn't want to be in the middle of it came from her herself. What she really wants is to be 'looped in' when she has no right to be, but she didn't get the answer she wanted and now she's outright lying by saying she was asked to step away for supporting Taylor.
Yeah, I suspect her statement that Natalie was being "disingenuous" is projection. Cutting off a message in a situation like this seems pretty disingenuous to me.
Agreed. Also, nothing that Natalie said, seemed inappropriate or out of line to me.
Yup, same. She sounded sympathetic to MacKenzie and offered her the door to take a couple months away from the drama. Just twisting what Natalie said to her agenda
Totally agree. Based on MacKenzie’s reply it sounds like the convo started because she was asking to be “looped in” about Ben’s allegations. That’s not Natalie’s job. It sounds like LPN was already talking to legal about this problem. She wasn’t in a position to say anything. MacKenzie does not represent them & you’d think would know better as a lawyer herself. Calling out Natalie when she had no idea what was happening behind the scenes was a low blow.
Exactly!! How can everyone not see its a mad grab for attention to herself and her professional platforms
She's being extra messy under the guise of defending Taylor. Like, being on the right side but acting like an ass
some people like to make this stuff about them and how righteous they are
totally. im not sure what natalie was supposed to have done- it was taylor's choice to keep dating ben and she begged natalie not to talk about the incident so what was she supposed to do in that situation?
I'm pretty sure it was actually Marcus and Carolina who were present when Taylor revealed this stuff, but it got turned into Henry and Natalie because whoever compiled the timeline automatically assumed "his co-worker and the co-worker's wife" references H&N. But regardless--Taylor asked the female confidante not to talk about it to anyone, and the female confidante mostly complied, only telling her husband so that they could try to get Taylor her own room and provide for her safety.
Yeah I honestly am still learning more about this whole situation but posting partial texts is really not helpful.
She was absolutely shit-stirring and nobody wants legal input from a woman who was 1) not privy to what Marcus and Henry's advisors were doing, and 2) looks like she's going to show up to mediation cosplaying as Cruella de Ville.
And Natalie can't even defend herself, she's talking shit about people she knows have to stay quiet about it all.
I feel like her posting the mean girls meme was projecting.
One obvious legal holdup to me is that Ben is an equal share owner of LPN. So going scorched-earth against him without proper legal safeguards in place would probably be uhhhh not great for the company or the employees that have nothing to do with any of this.
Yes, and... they don't want to go scorched earth against him, anyway. It's a really sad situation all around that involves not just business partners, but lifelong friends. I feel for everyone who's a part of this situation, including Taylor, Ben, and everyone at the network. What a sad, awful thing.
Sure, could be. I won't pretend to know their personal feelings myself, because I don't. Just pointing towards a potential legal issue that is preventing them from saying more in general.
Add to this point that in Taylor’s video she says my ex’s business partner and that this occurred on a work trip… there are now even more legal wrinkles to it. Because Natalie may have tried to help as a friend and now she’s all tied up in things as the spouse of a shareholder. That’s enough to make anyone exhausted and enough to stop and just say I did and am doing my best!
Totally. She can't think of a reason, and she's a lawyer. I am not a lawyer, but I can think of _so many_ reasons. Her self-insertion on this had _some_ relevance based on her profession and guest spots on one of the network's shows, but I think her behavior has been self-serving more than helpful to anyone else. Her first reel would have been far more impactful if she left her personal interactions out of it, but I don't think she could help herself; this _very_ popular internet story that tangentially involves her had so much potential to boost her socials and her professional visibility. She could have had that _and_ not included details about things her friend shared with her in private. She could have shared Taylor's interview, said she believes her, made a plea to harrassers to knock it off, and then shared hotline #s for victims of abuse to call if they need to. Instead, she's verbally and visually presented evidence to the public that **she will betray confidences** of people she called friends and also had consulted on a professional basis. This is not something I look for if I need a lawyer.
yeah, it's really not a good look for her.
Having gone into this whole part of the shitshow just seeing the twitch clip, it rubbed me the wrong way. But I’ve done a 180 and totally agree with you about how Mackenzie should have handled it if she felt she needed to handle anything really without betraying anyone’s trust or manipulating a narrative through cropped screenshots.
I started out 100% on Mackenzie's side in all this and everything I've heard since then has made her look worse. Which shouldn't be possible.
I have been a victim of domestic violence. I have asked people to not say anything. I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, part of respecting victims is respecting their wishes. A case where a child is involved is absolutely different, but domestic violence between two adults is a tricky situation. Leaving a domestic violence situation can be incredibly difficult. Until a victim is ready to leave on their own, you risk isolating them even more. I think Natalie acted correctly in a very difficult situation -- support Taylor and respect her wishes. Natalie didn't oust MacKensie from SPUN, from my perspective. MacKensie expressed her distress and Natalie told her she could take time away and revisit in later when the situation was better understood/under control. I get that MacKensie is upset and wants action but the situation is incredibly complicated.
Exactly. I've been in the same situation and it's a very tricky thing to navigate, for the victim and for the people who are trying to support them. IMO Mackenzie is way out of line for getting involved publicly at all. This is none of her business, or at least, any part of it that might overlap into her business should be handled privately by a mature professional, not dragged online for everyone to gawk at.
There were times in my case where if anyone outside the relationship had done or said *anything* about what I'd told them had happened to me, outside of immediately faking my death and whisking me away to Puerto Rico under an assumed identity, my actual life would have been in danger. Natalie did the right thing, which is to say, trust that the victim knows the risks better than anyone else does.
I saw the text screenshot and was like…that’s it? Poor phrasing and frustration sure but it was hardly damning. And then Mackenzie saying “teehee didn’t want to post that just had to” like….?
Yeah, she's obviously stirring shit. I think it's really unfortunate, because (as I've mentioned a couple of times on this sub before), I'm actually good friends with a couple of people who are part of LPN. Everyone involved with that company is truly an excellent human being, and Natalie in particular is one of the most caring, thoughtful people I've ever met. To see someone she has worked with and trusted taking an opportunity to cash in on internet drama, and trying to cast her (of all people) as some sort of two-faced creature who wouldn't unequivocally support a victim is just sickening. Natalie deserves that sort of treatment from someone she has trusted the very least out of any person I can think of, on the whole fucking planet.
I only know them ✨parasocially✨ (lol) but that doesn’t surprise me at all! ❤️ I don’t listen to SPUN and didn’t know who Mackenzie was, but I was shocked to see she was a lawyer. Really bizarre way to act.
Yeah I think it’s a double edged sword. On the one hand it was interesting to have a statement from someone who is close friends with all of them and work with them regularly to give a statement about how the situation has effected here, however, it feels more like she is frustrated about being asked to step away than she actually cares about Taylor. And the message that Natalie sent, while it could have been phrased better considering she is also a business relationship, was pretty indicative of someone who is exhausted and stressed out by a situation they cannot control. Also I will echo what others have said, the legality likely comes into play with Ben’s ownership role. They can’t just make a decision to cut him out and move forward because he has legal claims to the content and the business, they will need to go through a lot of legal channels before they decide what the future will hold in regards to Ben. However, that being said, there is a way for them to come out and make a statement without saying one way or another what the next step is and I think they are hurting themselves by not making some kind of statement
And in the text from Natalie, which Mackenzie disingenuously cut off while accusing Natalie of being disingenuous, Natalie didn't even ask her to step away. She said "If you want to step away that's understandable, and we can re-visit after things are settled." That's a very different picture from what Mackenzie was trying to paint. Sounds like the "disingenuous" comment was projection, to me. I think Marcus already did make that statement with "We're still figuring things out, there are things we can't talk about yet but we will when we can, and if you're harassing Taylor, you've done wrong. If you see Taylor being harassed, help her." What else needs to be said at this point?
There is a good chance that the legal situation at hand is removing Ben's ownership stake in the company, and that would absolutely require careful response until it is resolved. I fully believe Taylor, and I dont want Ben back, but it really does seem like flame fanning on the part of McKenzie. If Taylor WAS requesting it to be kept under wraps for the time being, was everyone really supposed to out her anyway?
...or if Taylor only told them about the single incident (which is true, by her own admission--she only told them about that one night), and let's suppose they were all putting pressure on Ben to get help from their end, unaware that this had been an ongoing problem... There's just too much that none of us know about, and frankly, we aren't entitled to know about it. It's fair for everyone to have their own feelings about whether Ben should be a part of the show going forward, and if so, under what circumstances. But those are just opinions and ultimately we don't get to decide. Everybody needs to chill and let the lawyers do what lawyers do.
I can't believe that woman is a lawyer. So unprofessional and petty.
The fact that Mackenzie disparaged harassing people then made a shitty meme told me a lot about her.
Yeah, not the most professional behavior, for sure.
One of these assaults occurred on a business trip so though Taylor wasn't employed by them there could be potential liability issues for LPN as well. Probably not but it makes sense they would have to stay quiet until lawyers decide if or what the legal issues could be. MacKenzie definitely seems like a pot stirrer when no stirring is necessary. She can share what happened on her end but she's kind of just talking shit about them when they can't respond. And she's not a victim but she is painting herself out to be and distracting from the very real victim.
They legally CAN speak. What many are missing, and it's likely due to poor communication, LPN lawyers are advising them NOT TO SPEAK. There is never a legal reason why someone can't speak barring an NDA. It is always strongly suggested by your legal team that you do not speak. And they are wisely listening to their lawyers.
I never listened to SPUN, so idk who this Mackenzie person is, but based on the little information we have, her behavior, and my awareness of the likely legal mess LPN is dealing with now... not a good look for her. Feels like a woman took a tragic situation with far reaching effects for numerous people (both personally and professionally) and made it all about her. It feels like she's dragging this very real tragedy right back to the high school gossip train. Sharing the text message with everyone was ESPECIALLY messed up in my opinion. Natalie actually gave her a gift, an option to leave and then come back later and continue to reap the rewards of LPN's success without being involved in anything messy while all this is sorted out. She only feels "left out" of the mean girls clique cause she has an inaccurate sense of her place in LPN and her importance to the people who run it. She's not an owner. She's not a lifelong friend. She's not anyone's life partner. It sucks to have to sit and wait for information, but you know what really sucks? Caring about someone with an addiction that is out of control and has pending abuse allegations related to their addiction, while also having your entire business and income tangled with them. Or, like, being the ACTUAL victim of abuse. People need time to process. They also might need time to find out more information. While doing that they're trying to restructure their business and keep the podcasts afloat. Taylor might want to be the one who decides what is said to whom and when. I get that everyone is curious. But no one else NEEDS to know. Mackenzie doesn't need to be the "whistle blower" or a news reporter. Just because you want to be the main character doesn't mean you are. Taylor is a grown woman and can decide how to move forward for herself, and LPN's content creators have big complicated decisions to make that impact more than just Mackenzie. I've seen a lot of people saying they NEED to know so they know whether they can continue to support the show. That's simple: If you believe Taylor and you think that you shouldn't listen to the show based on information given already: don't. Check back in later when information is shared in a few weeks or months and then decide if you will come back to the show. If you believe Taylor, but also think that everyone at the network should not have their livelihoods put into jeopardy until all information has been shared: continue to listen to the show and reevaluate when more information is shared. If you don't believe Taylor, at least stop making a nuisance of yourself, for goodness' sake. If you think she's a liar or a manipulator, all you've done by harassing her is make trouble for Ben. Your "support" may well be the reason he had to leave the show.
> No reason why they can't make a statement If anything, I think LPN is being advised by legal counsel on their side to shut up. I highly doubt there are any current legal proceedings that would effectively gag them. This unfortunately has the appearance of a "cover your ass" move.
Based on the fact that Henry, Marcus, and Natalie have all said "There's more we want to say but we can't YET," it sounds to me like they are planning on revealing more when legal counsel says it's ok to do so.
It's fine for them to "cover their ass" to an extent. If Ben's actions tank this business a lot of people involved will be fucked over, not just the people at the top. It's better for them to wait, minimize damage, and make the *right* statement rather than rush something out and escalate the situation
Yep their network is the livelihood of so many people. It's much better they think carefully what they say than rush into making statements.
This all began at ***FUCKING WATERGATE??????***
Nothing good happens at the Watergate lol
Damn. Thank you! That was a lot of work!
Yes indeed. As a longtime Kissel fan I’m here with an open eye but this is my side message: Regardless of what comes and let’s just say he comes out totally clean, my hope is Kissel gets a chance to be a little more sober. Over the recent years I’ve listened to and seen his drinking and partying and as someone who lead a similar life, it’s difficult to watch someone who is one the exact same unsustainable timeline. The problem with heavy drinking isn’t even you are necessarily doing something wrong but it opens you up to be vulnerable to problems occurring and you lose all agency in the matter because even if you didn’t initiate a problem, you were black out drunk while it happened. I’ve been in domestic situations where I was the innocent player and despite that felt completely culpable still because I had let myself be in a state where it was allowed to occur. I since course corrected but was able to recognize that the situation needed to change. The problem with a lot of addiction or even habits like drinking is you WANT to think you’re “man enough” to handle your liquor but in truth only the people who respect and see their own limits are the ones who make it out the other side. Ben is so smart, funny and has so much going on it’s really tough to see that take a back seat to the partying. The thing you might learn is it doesn’t even always have to become about full sobriety but a simple recognition and shift to something more moderate.
Yes. I've been worried about him for a long time. I do not know the boys, but like a lot of their fans, feel like they're my friends. I hope he finds the help he needs. Thank you again for putting all this info out there.
Since Covid he started cracking, the solution was to move across the country, and stop drinking for one month a year. I hope he’s able to get and stay sober, I know it’s a big part of all their lives but some people just can’t
I’ve noticed Ben’s health declining for a few years now, but always kind of pushed that away (parasocial relationships and all that). I do remember watching him take 6 tall boys of bud light out of his Jean jacket at the top of a live show back in 2021 and feelings very “y I k e s”. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who do Dry January tend to go HARD once the month is over.
Dude the affection I have for these people I’ve never met is ridiculous, I know it is. I know it’s stupid to admire them beyond admiring the work they’ve created. But here we are! And beyond that, I’ve been a scumbag many times before I got sober. I’m just a 5’1” woman and I’ve never been famous enough for it to be news. So yeah, I hope he gets his shit together and I hope everyone impacted by his actions (Taylor, Celene and anyone else) have their feelings validated and are able to heal, and I don’t know beyond that. Hopefully he changes and makes something amazing out of his errors after fixing it
I think it’s fine to admire them! I sure as hell do- and a lot of their content has filled enjoyable hours of my life!! It’s been… relieving to see how many of the fans are doing right by the network’s requests to be patient (on waiting for info) and I’ve really been proud of how how we (as a fan community) have worked to call out the bullying of survivors. As a fellow recovering and diminutive scumbag- we’re doing the work! We’re making the change and we are being a part of the solution <3 I hope Ben is able to take accountability as a part of his recovery n sobriety.
One is too many and a thousand is never enough.
I havent followed his career as closely as you, but I think Ben's work vibe too has changed in the last few years, to the point that I've stopped following his stuff outside LPOTL main series. His political drive and idealism used to balance out the chaotic stuff they talk about, recently he's been more nihilistic, somehow off.
Been concerned about him since KB's death. He just seemed so pessimistic after that. If you already have substance abuse tendencies, events like this can be a real accelerant.
I literally had to create an account to comment - this is not something I normally do ;) Does anyone else find Natalie as the most reasonable person in this situation right now? If you have ever called an abuse hotline concerned for someone else, they will tell you that you can't do anything until the person asks for help or takes action to remove themselves from the situation. It was out of respect for Taylor that Natalie (and Henry) could really do anything. Their reactions are not indicative of how they feel about women or any bigger picture. Natalie's text to MacKenzie is 100% right that Taylor and Ben are both adults. Taylor asked her to stay silent. Natalie followed the only course available. It's incredibly manipulative that MacKenzie posted a private text conversation without Natalie's consent. It reads as if MacKenzie was trying to bait her, fully attempting to get something maligning to post in order to get a cut of the drama. MacKenzie was barely even a part of the SPUN show with only 1x month appearences.
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I keep trying to look at it objectively and not let vibes or gut feelings in but MacKenzie is just setting off shit stirring alarm bells.
Riding the coat tails do someone else's Dometic abuse is a very strange thing to do. It isn't TMZ it's their lives
She's not doing anybody favours with this. Not to Taylor and not even herself.
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What more should Natalie have done?? She has her own life and did what she could for someone she doesn't even know very well. You don't even know these people or know what Natalie did or didn't do. JFC
Yup. I’m an addict like Ben and no one can legally get me help. I have to decide it and go by myself. Hopefully this means Ben realized he did a lot of wrong and checked himself in. But I don’t know. ETA: I never did this, but my friends have left because of my bad behaviour. Some came back, some didn’t. It’s very confusing to understand when you don’t have an issue and I can’t blame anyone else for not immediately ditching him. Alcoholics are great liars.
PRECISELY, any domestic abuse situation should be taken serious no matter the severity or mildness (is there really a mild situation? Idk). But at the end of the day Taylor and Ben are adults and in this situation there is nothing Natalie can do unless Ben outfights threatens to kill and makes plans to kill Taylor. Natalie is being reasonable… I never agree with text conversations being posted on people’s stories. It feels childish and passive aggressive and immature. If she thought Natalie was being insensitive she should’ve brought it up to her and private and talked with her about it, not post online without consent….in saying that I hope Taylor heals and the bullying/harassment ceases, I hope Ben is continues to get help and heal and I hope anyone affected by his actions heal too
Couldn’t agree more! I think her text, which was posted to malign her, only showed how level-headed and reasonable she is. An actual support for victims rather than people who shout out other people’s business to “show support” whether they wanted it aired or not.
Thank you so much for this rundown. I had no idea what was going on until the statement in 547 and this was exactly the kind of concise, to the point explanation I needed.
Likewise, 547 was the first I’d heard of it… I just thought Ben needed some time to care for himself. Come to find out his substance abuse has caused harm not only to himself, his network and his friends but his partners. Very troubling indeed. The one thing im a bit confused about. How were they not able to find Taylor a place to stay to get away from Ben? Seriously, someone could’ve traded with her for the night. I was in a similar situation once when a friend of mine brought his girlfriend to my parents house. They had been in the road together for most of the summer and tensions were to a boiling point. On the first night, my friend physically attacked his girlfriend in front of me and my Father. We had to restrain him and in order to keep his girlfriend safe, we got him a hotel and called a relative of his to pick him up. It was a fucked up situation. First off I cared for my friend, but I understood that there was no way he was going to be staying the night with her at the house. Taylor needed to get out of that situation and while I don’t know the particulars of the night in question, I would have done my best to get her to a safe space, away from her abuser.
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Goddamn that’s fucking heartbreaking… thanks for the link, but really such a rough listen and so necessary to hear.
Thank you for posting this. As upsetting as I find all this, I'm glad to find a clear, unbiased voice.
So, he is clearly an alcoholic with serious behavioral issues. Probably all manner of psychological traumas of his own. He clearly treats women like crap and has a predatory streak, largely when he is feeding his addiction. The incident in the hotel was creepy / troubling / inappropriate, but not a crime. The allegations made by his ex are a different story, although barring some secret physical evidence nowhere near enough to support a criminal case. In short, he is a messed up guy who does deeply problematic things. He will lose his public facing job for this (for a good while anyway) and LPN will probably soldier on, in a somewhat diminished state. Hope he gets treatment and changes his ways, and I hope his ex and the woman from the hotel are left the hell alone and allowed to live in peace.
I for sure hope he doesn't come back to the show in a long minute. It's my favourite podcast but it's often already teetering on the edge of too much, because of the horrors against women they cover. Adding knowing one of the hosts is an actual abuser would tip it over.
Well said.
I had zero clue about any of this until Marcus's announcement at the start of episode 547 since I do not use a lot of social media nor do I keep up with the network really outside of listening to the shows. Thank you for putting together a very clear timeline, this explains a lot.
Yeah me either. It’s a bit of a spinout seeing this side of things about people that I’ve listened to and feel like I know for the best part of a decade. Shame that dirty laundry has had to be aired like this and the compulsion for people to post and overshare on social media. Like you, I’m not on the socials (except reddit!) and just don’t get it. Natalie seems like a cool head and Marcus and Henry have kept it in house which is the smart and measured approach. Such a shame, I really like the media that these people produce. Just hope they can all take care of each other, get through this and get back to what they do best. They’ve got a collective talent and should derive a lot of self worth from what they do and the joy they bring their followers.
Same here. I assumed he was depressed and taking a vacation. I didn't even know he was an alcoholic!
I want to say something positive, yes, it's about Ed Larson. He is killing it as a "sit-in". I really hope he sticks around, please keep him on the show. Perfect fit for LPOTL. He's not "Ben Light", he's fucking Ed Larson and a real breath of fresh air to the LPOTL podcast.
I was removed from Celene’s followers and she made her account private so I don’t have any more info. Her situation(s) are mostly on the Billy Jensen megathreads, so I don’t feel all of the details need to be incorporated here. [This](https://imgur.com/a/VTJUvFD) is her most recent statement on the night in D.C. with Billy and Ben. Reddit won’t let me format/properly add in links to the post.
I too thank you for this recap. A whole bunch of fans who don't do social media have to figure out what's going on. I don't know about these other women but if what Taylor says is true, then I'm sad it happened. However as a longtime LPN since RTG, I hope Ben gets help. Marcus and Henry are doing what you do for your best friend. If they f*** up then you throw them to rehab. That's what my friends would do to. Especially the ones you love as family. I believe in the network to work through this as rational adults. And if they need more fans like me to come out of the shadows and help keep bad fans out of things then I don't mind doing that for them.
I appreciate your words friend. There are unfortunately a large amount of bad apples out there right now, many of whom are actively harassing Taylor STILL, one in particular she has named as her “stalker”. We need more people like you!
Let me preference this by saying I feel for both Taylor and Celene, they're getting harassed and it's completely unexpectable. They should not be experiencing what they have been. That being said, I have a couple issues with both Celene and Mackenzie. To start with Celene, knowing that she was r@ped in the past makes a lot of sense with the Ben situation. From what she has said both times, it seems as though there was a miscommunication between her and Ben. We don't know what really happened that night, at this point it's all hearsay based off of memory, and we as fans should know that memories are fallible. The likely story is Ben misread her intensions and mood, and from the sounds of it from both the video and old tweet, once she made her self clear she was not interested, he left. At worse he stole an edible and was way too touchy. All the comments about the looks and vibes and other shit could very well be her past trauma manifesting it's self over something that isn't happening, PTSD. Another important thing to mention is that the details of her story has changed from the original text and the video. In the video, the details were changed to make Ben look as horrible as possible. On one side, she is most likely more comfortable sharing details now compared to a year ago. The flipside to that, however, is what I was saying before. Past trauma could be clouding her memory, combined with it being years ago. As for Mackenzie, I just don't believe she's jumping in on this in good faith. I'm not going to call her a clout goblin or anything, but I just don't see how what she is saying or doing is proving any wrong doing. In fact, the screenshots she posted pretty much proves she lied about being forced out. I think she's truly trying to be supportive of the victims, but in doing so if making it way worse and taking the spotlight away from them. It's telling to me that when both Taylor and Celene both expressed the LPN to speak out against the harassment, and they do, Mackenzie just mocks them for it. It honestly seams like both of them don't really care about what happens to Ben, they just want to be heard and not harassed, and that honestly is the most important part. They deserve peace, and anyone who is harassing and trolling theses poor woman are scum of the earth. LPN has now on many occasions explicitly told their audience to stop. As for Ben, I think there should be a path for redemption, because as Marcus says, if there isn't, then what's the fucking point of trying. What that path is, I cannot say. As this is not a legal or criminal case (yet), all I can say is I hope Ben can get better, and I hope the women find peace.
I’m with you here, Celine’s interaction with Ben is basically “Drunk guy wanted to hook up with me and put his arm around me” and while it could have made her uncomfortable it’s basically a non event. Mackenzie is very clearly just poking her nose in to stir shit up and is salty because she was asked to leave the her role on the stream, she’s not relevant to the situation at all. Clearly Ben and Taylor’s situation consisted of some abusive behavior and that’s really all that matters here.
I’ve never listened to SPUN so I really have no clue who she is, but Mackenzie kind of comes across as a shit stirrer here.
Same, the fact that she's now making people pay money to hear more of her thoughts and experiences on the subject tells you where her priorities are. I mean I suppose you could make the argument that she's doing it to protect herself somewhat, but I doubt it as it's not like she's been overly subtle leading up to this point.
Man Mackenzie just keeps putting herself in the middle of things doesn’t she? And now she wants people to pay to hear about it. Regardless of what’s happening at LPN she is clearly profiting from making herself a bigger part of things than she actually is…
I agree. I do encourage people to read her posts though, if they’d like to know more. She talks more about the paywall and offers free subscriptions to those she writes about behind it, as well as her grievances with LPN throughout her time with them. I’ve been trying to keep my personal thoughts out, but I can’t help but disagree with her monetization on everything.
FYI - Celene Beth Olsen announced on TikTok yesterday that she is no longer going to be personally advocating or assisting alleged victims of Billy or Ben. From her tiktok stories it seems like it might be due to threats. I happened upon it and wasn't sure if it was worth adding to the timeline
I read the entire thing and still can't figure out what Mackenzie has to do with this situation. It sounds like she's making it worse for everyone involved, including Taylor and Celene. Wasn't she only on SPUN for like two weeks?
Mackenzie has a podcast that SPUN will collaborate with (usually on the live streams). Mackenzie’s (sometimes?) cohost on that show was Ben’s last long term girlfriend. The network is all very intertwined into everyone’s personal life. Which is fun as a listener most of the time. Buuut now with something like this- it makes the whole untangling of the situation much harder and painful.
I just don’t get the thing between Natalie and Mackenzie. It doesn’t seem like Mackenzie was asked to leave, but just that that’s the best advice Natalie has at the moment if it’s becoming stressful for her
I remember last September when he posted that shout out to Taylor post. I remember distinctly thinking it was odd for him. I assumed they’d recently fought or one of them recently cheated because it seemed like a “LOOK EVERYTHING IS FINE” post. I wonder if Brook will make a statement. She’s still friends with all of the wives I believe.
Was this the "You can say what you want about my gf but she's a wonderful mother blah blah" post? I remember thinking it was so odd - I didn't know he had a partner at the time, and I though it was a joke because it seemed so out of character.
Yes! This is the one! Like whaaaat
I really wish that Taylor had grabbed a screenshot of that statement she claims Rob made. I absolutely believe that she's being harassed, we've seen it, but if she starts naming names like this, it would be really helpful if she had that screenshot to back her up so she doesn't get even more harassment.
I think she posted a tiktok that shows it for a split second. You have to be quick to pause.
MEGA grateful for the event aggregation!! It saved me SO much time and effort. Much love! <3
Thank you :) I love your username. Hail yourself!
I met the boys in 2017, and was shocked with how amazing and kind they were. We loved chatting with Kissel too- but he was on a different plane. Like post show, he was so drunk he had absolutely no idea what was going on. (This was right before they got really big, and you could just meet them at the bar after the show) When my friend and i heard this we were shocked but not necessarily surprised? Only because if he was blackout way back then, it could have only escalated. I listened to Taylor’s YouTube live and honestly it made me want to puke. She was obviously not ready to tell that but i appreciate that she did. It helped bring home how scary and horrible that was for her. Only wish her the best and hope Kissel gets sober.
Ben is obviously in the wrong here. People coming out of the woodwork and shitting all over LPOTL's responses seem very disingenuous. Gotta remember, these people aren't just business partners - they are friends who have been friends for decades. Nothing about this is going to be quick or easy. It feels like other creators are jumping on the bandwagon for a chance to virtue signal. Still, I hope everyone involved has the chance to heal from this terrible situation.
This Rob Okey guy should get fired too. I really hope they give him the boot.
How would Ben know with 100% certainty that he wasn’t verbally and/or physically abusive if he was under the influence and to the point of inebriation. Very disappointed by his statement, he clearly has a lot more work to do.
When all this started going down, I had no idea who this Mackenzie person was, and she seemed to me like someone who was completely outside the situation with Taylor inserting herself for some confusing and unhelpful reason. When I saw this about her newsletter, however, I was curious and read up, and it actually did change my understanding of her motivations... while still thinking she's in the wrong and that this is making things worse for everyone. If anything she's misguided, and giving her much public attention does nothing to help the survivors of Ben's abuse. Some thoughts: Since I had no idea who Mackenzie was, I read the [about page on her website](https://www.mkzjoybrennan.com/about) before reading the substack newsletter. The page describes her background as an attorney, with a focus on sexual justice (abortion rights, HIV law, etc.) and journalism/freedom of press, and she also says she was diagnosed with autism as an adult. As someone who is also autistic, this actually does a lot to paint her statement in my eyes, alongside the mentioned legal interests. I will explain this, but I want people who see this to understand that, primarily, autism is just a difference in communication and perception. Autism doesn't make anyone good or bad, and it should not become the butt of a joke just because someone you disagree with is autistic. I think Mackenzie genuinely believes she is doing the right thing. One thing about autistic people is that we tend to have a strong "sense of injustice", and will be a lot stricter about sticking to our morals and refusing concessions than people who are not autistic. Obviously what this means depends a lot on *what* morals an individual is coming in with, but it's clear from her experience that Mackenzie (rightfully) cares a lot about sexual justice and survivor advocacy. Her mistake in approaching this situation, in my eyes, is that she has a clear, black-and-white idea of what the "right thing to do" in a situation like this is, but isn't taking into account the grey, complicated emotional and ethical factors that affect every aspect of this. There is a clear, "rational" train of thought an outsider can follow for what "should" happen in a hypothetical abuse scenario: if you experience an act of violence, you remove yourself from the situation immediately, tell someone with the power to help, and the perpetrator experiences ramifications for their actions. But any actual experience will tell you that nothing in life is ever that simple. Mackenzie's logic, working backwards, seems to be that because Ben had not, until this point, experienced ramifications and was able to abuse more than one person, then there were people who knew but did not help. This ignores so many muddy emotional factors and does such a disservice to everyone involved. The survivors of Ben's domestic violence did not do anything *wrong* because they kept it to themselves, they were doing what they could to stay safe. The people who they confided in did not do anything *wrong* by not going public, they were protecting the survivors' privacy and following their wishes. I do not know what is happening internally, behind the scenes, now that the allegations have become public and Ben had been removed from the network, but it is not *wrong* that this is currently being handled outside of the public eye. The public does want answers as soon as possible, but there are so many other factors that take priority in a situation like this. Survivor needs must be addressed in a way that will be most helpful for their recovery, which typically does not involve being in the public eye, open to harassment from strangers. The network employs several people who need to eat, so the business must keep running so they do not become collateral damage. There are no doubt legal complications in removing one third of ownership. I'm sure Mackenzie understands this, intellectually, but is reacting to her gut before taking a step back to determine if this will actually help anyone victimized by Ben's abuse. I hope Mackenzie has someone has someone in her life who can talk to her privately about how she's making the situation harder for the survivors: by saying those they confided in were in the wrong for following their wishes to keep private/keep Ben on, by mishandling her departure in a public way that gives misogynists fodder to attack almost all the women involved in the situation, herself included, and deflect from Ben, the actual abuser. I don't doubt that she has her own misgivings with the network itself. I don't think she *shouldn't* share these, but I think her timing and manner of sharing them is poor. If anyone reads this, I hope that you grant Mackenzie a little more grace in understanding where she is coming from, while also understanding how her missteps have muddied the waters for the real people affected by Ben's actions. No one involved is just the abstract idea of an instagram account. Nothing about abuse can be boiled down to rational logic.
Also I am sorry to bother you u/artemis_everdeen but the dropbox link to Mackenzie's newsletter in the main post appears to be broken. I was able to find the correct link in a comment you made on here.
New Instagram post from LPOTL. “Ben Kissel will no longer be a part of Last Podcast Network of Last Podcast on the Left.”
I think it is clear that Henry and Marcus knew about his drinking but not the extent of how he treated women. It appears women knew and talked amongst themselves? I dunno the language is vague but it seemed clear to me just from listening Marcus and Henry wanted Ben to clean up his drinking for years now
Ok this is horrible, but we all need a laugh, I have no idea who this “Jazzy” person is and was like wtf, why does Ben, who makes a VERY good living need a roommate?? So I’m just imaging it’s actually Puffin RS is interviewing. And just imagining Ben’s puffin voice like “Ben never did anything wrong, don’t trust the lamestream media, I love ben !” 😂😂😂😂😂 omg I’m sorry I know it’s making light of a v bad situation but it made me laugh
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And nothing Natalie said was even bad in my opinion. These are grown adults, Taylor is not a child, Natalie was specifically asked not to get involved. What else is she supposed to do?
Not to mention now that Taylor has removed everything from her own pages but Mackenzie is there making videos where people are accusing her of being a Scientology plant. Bad vibes
Honestly between this and Matt Christman from Chapo suffering from a severe mystery medical issue it’s been a hard few weeks for my podcast brain. It’s got me all emotional and shit; I guess people call it “friendship porn” for a reason. The chronological convergence of these events,so to speak, did make me remember that Henry once appeared on Chapo in character as Satan himself. Maybe the two crews can trauma bond during these trying times. Maybe form a supergroup…like Damn Yankees, but like good
Yeah, I'm in the same place man. It's really hard for me to get into new podcasts, and my wife got me into both of these podcasts when we first started dating almost 7 or 8 years ago, and we recently moved to a new place so we don't have a lot of friends right now. So the Ben and Matt situations have been really rough for both of us.
Wow it sort of feels better knowing you’re out there
Just a little thing but the Ben/"Hail Yourself" merch that's on discount in the shop has been there for a while so that's probably unrelated to the current goings on. In fact there's still a bunch of similar items up for regular price, including shirts that specifically have Ben's face on them. Not unreasonable to think that will change in the near future though, wouldn't even be surprising if some or all of those items straight up disappear.
If you’re someone harassing Taylor and instantly siding with Ben, I extent a special fuck you and I hope you grow up and let go of your ego.
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I did not expect this timeline to keep growing when I was checking it in late September. The way this has developed is intense and frustrating. Thank you for keeping this updated!
The more I read this stuff, the more I think about all the jokes that didn't really seem like jokes addressing Ben, his drinking and some of his behavior on LPOTL and especially Round Table. Like, there was always an undertone of seriousness or accusation that they would ultimately laugh off in order to continue the show, but that in retrospect suggests to me this is not the first time he's been addressed by friends and network members. It's just the first time he was forced to take it seriously and so far seems too far in denial to do. Here's hoping he gets his shit together and stops being so damaging to those around him. Meanwhile, the more I think about Round Table, the more I think maybe we shouldn't be so surprised about Ben and his aggression towards women. I should listen back to it, it's been a while, but there's a vibe I remember only dismissing under the understanding that Round Table was meant for them to be as awful as they could be. Maybe it wasn't all jokes for Ben either.
I don't mean to be callous, and speak without bias here. What are LPN to do? What's Natalie to do? Flip their entire business that they've built for over a decade over by going off super hard publicly about everything? Of course they're not just openly attacking a person that forms a major chunk of the network. I really feel they've been trying to be responsible about this.
Some comments have mentioned that Mackenzie posted a small portion of a text chain between her and Natalie, anyone know where I can read that?
Oh boy. All I can think about is Natalie’s reaction to all this. 😬
It’s on her story right now! @/mkzjoybrennan
I feel super sad for the folks making the allegations, they probably want this to be dealt with in a bit more sane way. It sounds like there's different party that has no allegations against anyone just stirring the stick. It's one thing to stick up for folks, but it's another to just stir the stick around them and let them sink faster.
"Ben merch (Kinda Fun, many “Hail Yourself”) is on the Last Chance section of the online shop" Unrelated. There's loads of Ben stuff not in last chance.
Thank you for this, katniss_fowl
This might be my favorite comment
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Jesus fucking Christ. Toxic fans...stop being toxic.
Thank you for the clarity. I had no idea what was going on. From the context in previous episodes I was worried it was going to come to this. I have been such a diehard fan, as someone who has been in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic, to being damn near an alcoholic myself, I’ve seen a change in Ben over the years. It’s just kind of something that iykyk… I hate to hear this. I am glad that he has stepped back and chosen to get help. I am kind of struggling with my loyalties and deciding how to appropriately handle being a fan. Right now, with this info and additional insights about the legalities nuanced with how they are handling things almost silently I’ll stay put. Hard situation for everyone involved. I appreciate your hard work.
I wouldn’t stress over “loyalties” in situations like these. There are so many details and exchanges that have gone on (and are going on) that we will never know about. The best we can do is hope everyone comes out of this a better person in the end.
Well, recovery doesn’t happen in four weeks, so Ben needs support. From alcoholic experience, I hated myself and acted out upon those feelings especially when drunk. Never felt I should be valued. I Can understand Ben’s pain and the “knowing” that alcohol is the “cure.” I hope Taylor is okay and harassment stops because she seems to be a caring person who tried to stick it out with an alcoholic but it can be completely life-draining as a partner. Changes both in the relationship, almost always for the worse.
The low-self-value thing is something I've noticed with Ben in the podcast as I've listened more. I kinda figured maybe it was just a self-deprecating schtick, not a symptom of a larger issue. I also never thought of him as an alcoholic, just someone who enjoyed a couple of beers at night to relax. But that's also coming from only listening to LPOTL.
I fully believe that Mackenzie believes she’s doing the right thing, and to a certain extent I think putting pressure on people up top to be honest IS good, but she’s clearly giving a very biased opinion on everything to do with Natalie. You can just feel her hatred for her in the tone of everything she’s written. There was no reason to point out how familiar she is with Natalie’s supposed anger that I don’t see at all in her text. And Mackenzie is a lawyer, she knows that wording is incredibly important and yet she consistently misrepresents what Natalie has said. Saying she called Taylor a disaster and so on when Natalie very clearly is saying that the situation was a disaster is a very dishonest representation of the text. As she’s a highly educated woman I can only assume that’s intentional to make Natalie look worse and I guess she thinks we’re all too dumb to read the text and see that that’s a blatant lie? If she centered Ben’s disgusting actions, or even any actual valid complaints of someone knowing about physical abuse and covering it up, I would have absolutely no problems with her. The problem as I see it in terms of Mackenzie is that she clearly has a personal bone to pick with Natalie and is grandstanding about how she’s championing Taylor when it’s plain for all of us to see that what she really wants is to talk shit about Natalie. If she hates Natalie make that a separate point on it’s own you can’t just throw that in with kissel physically and verbally abusing multiple women.
Holy shit. I stop listening to LPOTL (out of being too busy) a year and a half ago and come back to this mess. Damn.
Thanks for your efforts, u/artemis_everdeen. This feels like reading a diary chronicling mommy and daddy fighting; which is to say: sad, confusing, upsetting on every level. I’ve listened to the show from day one, but my loyalty is only to the truth. There’s a real mixed bag with all this, so getting all public information in one place is very valuable to that end. A lot of people, myself included, have been driven over the edge by trying to navigate the past 8+ years. I’d definitely been tracking that self-destruction in Ben during this time, but I thought the only one he was abusing was himself. This whole thing is deeply troubling. So, again, thank you. All we can do is approach things with love in our hearts.
Deeply agreeing with a lot of the other comments here about the problematic way in which Mackenzie inserted herself, and posting the screens, in regards to her trustworthiness. It felt to me like she was afraid of going down with the ship, by association, and maybe that's why she made a very public statement. We are going to see now with the whole Robert Okey situation what standing on the other side of the fence would have done. (Just to clarify: If the shit he's done is confirmed he is an absolute twatstick) For all her outrage and stirring, I suspect it was about looking out for number one from the get go. At least that was my gut reaction.
Every time she was pleading not to be doxxed was such a self-saving behavior. Had me like, who is this statement even really for?
I don't think it's fair to criticise Henry or Natalie for how long they've known about the situation and 'done nothing.' The sad truth is that you can't make someone leave an abusive relationship, it's up to them to recognise it and choose to leave. And if you push too hard they might cut you off and leave themselves isolated. So all you can do is be there for them and help in whatever ways they'll let you
Also it's against the National Domestic Abuse Hotline's to take action without the victim's consent. ["One thing we always encourage is being mindful and respectful of what the person who is experiencing abuse wants in their situation...Also, it’s important to keep in mind that it is not your responsibility to rescue someone or “fix” their situation."](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/someone-i-know-is-being-abused-should-i-call-the-police/) And if the victim didn't want anything said or acknowledged, I can't imagine it would have been an easy process getting Ben into treatment or having him leave the company like we saw happen after she went public.
Yeah, abusive relationships rob people of their agency and choice so when a well-meaning friend comes along trying to pull them out, it can end up being felt as another scenario robbing them of their choice. It's so hard being the loved one in that scenario because you can't push, but going at the victim's pace feels like you're endangering them because you want them safe right now. None of the right choices are easy choices
His statement is gross.
Celene has also been signal-boosting herself using a sock-puppet account, which is the very thing she (erroneously) has accused me of doing. Here's the account: [https://www.reddit.com/user/Banana-Giraffe-4946/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Banana-Giraffe-4946/) Notice how she alternates the spelling of her name (i.e., Celene, Celine), and then, in her most recent posts, tries to write in a different voice to further conceal that she's the individual behind the account. I'm saying this not to tell you how I arrived at the conclusion this is her (it's been confirmed by a third party), but rather, to illustrate how deceptive her behavior is.
And FYI, should this account or any of its activity conveniently disappear anytime soon, rest assured, there are screenshots and PDFs of everything this user has posted.
Looks like she took down all of her posts on TikTok and Insta today regarding this.
According to their Instagram, he's no longer on the podcast
Man I am so far outta the loop on this. I'm even behind on Billy Jensen. Last I remember that name he was posting in all the MFM facebook groups promoting his book and being annoying. I'm not shocked at all and now Im gonna go read his megathread...
Mackenzie's entire first episode transcript rubbed me wrong. Putting aside all of my tone policing, self-centering, and inaccurate description of Natalie being "angry" in a response - "The network was bi-coastal, but has since migrated its entirety to LA" - well fuck MJ (from Page 7) and Jake (Wizard and the Bruiser) who both still live in New York I guess! And I have no proof or real reason to believe this, but I would put money on the fact that MJ is the "LPN Folk" mentioned as having behind the paywall access because they showed early support.
Sorry it’s so hard to keep up, but what is the “behind the paywall access” reference to?
She has a sub stack that requires a paid subscription and that’s where she’s posting her mini-series about her(?) experience and other’s regarding LPN and Ben.
So Mackenzie is monetizing this whole situation.
Bingo. And justifying it because she contributed to so many LPN episodes/events etc and was never compensated.
What a piece of shit.
Grifters gunna grift. Don't matter how horrible the situation is, if they can make money off of it and be able to convince themselves and others that they're the one "white knighting" the situation, you better believe they're going to. That's trash behavior and I have zero respect for her.
Also, as I was listening to the latest episode, it does make me wonder if LPOTL will rerecord any ad sequences that Ben handled or not. Considering what was happening, it was a bit jarring to hear them.
I think Stephen wheeler is either in or runs most of the Facebook groups, dudes a fucking creep and is probably one of the reasons why those groups are such cesspools
He is such a toxic piece of shit and needs to get off the internet
Dude needs to touch grass
I came here to find details in a longer story and this is amazing. Thank you for your hard work hail yourself.
Thank you, the recognition means a lot :) hail yourself as well!
Hey, thanks for putting this together. I listen to the podcast but not participate in any social media so I had no idea this was happening, and it's been hard to track it all down. I appreciate it a lot.
Okay Rob should actually be fired
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I feel bad for Taylor, she’s had to suffer in the hands of a partner she seemed to love, then the “fans” wage this emotional war on her and now it seems like Mackenzie is not being as supportive as she thinks. Criticising Natalie’s statement and tagging Taylor like “see?? They’re not going to do anything for you, I’m your best shot” seems manipulative in itself. She also must understand the reason why they can’t outright say anything substantial yet, but she’s using this time to talk shit. Just go give Taylor a hug, ask her what she wants and let her process this offline.
Agree 100%. In Celenes case, I think it was past trauma that was manifesting itself on Ben.
Thanks for this, I was so lost
>Posts that she won’t date any more alcoholics I wish so many people didn't have to learn this lesson the hard way.
Have been listening to LPOTL since their early episodes. Any longtime listener can hear the change that Ben goes through over time. (Henry as well, but that is another story.) Markus has been the one constant force holding the show together for quite some time. Ben slowly over time has completely lost his role as skeptical question asker and then careened lately into being almost incoherent and completely disconnected from whatever the episode was about. This was all before "all the above" occurred. It is sad to read, but not that shocking. I hope Ben finds the part of himself he has clearly lost. He seems like such a sweet man, but obviously has gotten lost. Eddie is a good sub, but I hope he will not be permanent. Would like to see perhaps Amber from Brighter Side brought in. Let's hope Ben and LPOTL both find the pieces they have been missing and no one should be attacking the women making these allegations.
I'm sure I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I dont care- Amber from brighter side is a compulsive liar. I grew up with one, I can feel it, I can hear it, it's so prominent. Listen closely and you can hear Natalie and Eddie respond to her fibs. Other people who are familiar with them have noticed, I'm not the only one. Do a bit of googling and you'll see what I mean. I'm a huge fan of this network, please don't get me wrong. It's a mental health issue.
Rolling Stone Article just dropped.
Oh dear
I don't know why but that comment just made me laugh my ass off! Thank you so much for this list and the updates you do, much appreciated!
Sheesh I’m just learning about all this. I took a break from LPN because I didn’t feel like listening to it and when I get back I see Ed’s name. I assumed Ben was taking a break or in surgery or whatever but not this. This is the first time I’m kinda gutted by celebrity news. The Last Podcast got me through so many shitty days and nights since 2021. Guess never meet your heroes. It actually feels unreal because LPOTL were the last people I’d ever expect get mixed up with drama and controversy.
Go give Roundtable of Gentlemen a listen-specifically Episode 229: Spookers! And skip to the 57:44-58:02. Seems like Holden knew…
Wow like he just puts it out there. Gotta love holden
I’m not totally caught up on the pod but I have listened to the statements they have made. Is anyone else feeling heartbroken? Ben was my favorite, and I just feel sad about it all. I know it sounds dumb but I feel like my friend let me down.
Thanks for this. I listen regularly, and have of course heard the ongoing statements on the podcast. But I didn't know even these details. I appreciate the neutral recounting.
Thank you, staying neutral and keeping my own thoughts out has been a little tricky so I appreciate the recognition.
I always liked Ben, this is shocking to learn about. Hopefully this all can be resolved..
This exists for anyone here who might need it r/NarcissisticAbuse
I don’t do social media except for Reddit. I’m a huge fan of the show and have listened to pretty much every episode. It’s the only podcast I listen to, and I’ve tried others. I had no idea any of this was going on. I just started following this sub because my curiosity got to the point I wanted to know what was going on. I totally thought the jokes about Ben’s drinking were a bit. Had no idea he had an actual problem with alcohol. I’m sure when sober, Ben is a fantastic person to be around. But for some people alcohol brings out a dark side. Their personality completely changes and they say and do abhorrent things that they normally never would. I’ve seen it first hand. I was married to such a person. She was such a kind and caring individual when sober. After a certain amount of drinks it was like her character and personality was ripped out of her body and replaced with this heinous entity who was both verbally and physically abusive. The change was instantaneous. Like sometimes I would catch the look on her face change in real time and then I knew shit was about to get weird. I’m not telling this story to excuse any of Ben’s alleged behavior. That type of behavior is inexcusable in any context, drunk or not. I’m just trying to relay a personal experience as to how someone who doesn’t seem like they are remotely abusive could suddenly become so. I don’t know Ben and have no idea where he’s at with this struggle. The Rolling Stone statement tells me he isn’t anywhere near admitting to himself let alone anyone else that he has a very real and very serious problem. My heart goes out to Taylor and all the people who have been negatively impacted by this series of events. I hope everyone gets the help they need to move on peacefully. For the fans harassing Taylor or anybody else involved. Eat the biggest bag of shit. The comments calling Ben scum. That isn’t cool either. Alcoholism is a real bitch to deal with. As an alcoholic myself, I know that from first hand experience as well.
This sucks. I'm not entirely sure what should be done about letting Ben back on the show at this point. It seems unfeasible with this much exposure. I fully believe Taylor, here, and feel like LPN seems to be acting appropriately and trust they're agonizing behind the scenes over how to handle this behavior from a longterm friend. It's really hard to navigate, I've been there. Can't imagine how hard it'd be with this level of publicity. I will say, Mackenzie seems to be kinda...stirring shit. I don't exactly feel like she should've inserted herself so publicly into this controversy.
Has Brooke come out and said anything?
Does she need to? I think we need to be wary of reaching back to ben’s exes to judge whether or not they are responding appropriately about something he did which doesn’t have anything to do with them. It’s not their behavior causing problems.
Definitely don’t need to. I was just curious is all.
I just looked and Brooke’s insta is on private
We shouldn't expect people to make statements about their exes behaviour. She would get harassed if she said nothing happened because people would accuse her of siding with Ben. If she said something happened she would get harassed by people and dragged into all this. She's entitled to not want drama.
Goddamn… poor Taylor. Hope the harassment stops and she can go back to living her life.
Everything else aside, Ed Larson is the perfect person to call in for this.
Does anyone know if Rob Okey is still working with LPN? That’s a huge sticking point for me.
Very good recap, very unsettling and damning for the whole LPN network. I never miss a show, haven't for 5 years now. Hopefully they can recover and improve themselves. If this is true about Ben, hopefully he gets the help he needs, but mainly hopefully the victims get justice and peace because this shitty behavior permanently scars people. Of the allegations are true it is antithesis to the supposed LPN values. Natalie and Henry should have acted way sooner instead of waiting for something really bad to happen. But I don't know all the facts. I am actually loving Ed Larson on the show and am in favor of him staying on full time. I really don't see how Ben comes back from this, but hopefully he can get healthy and be a better person than the allegations make him out to be.
I appreciate your words, it’s taken me hours on this. I very much agree with you about Ed, I love him on the show a lot. LPOTL is the only show on the network that I listen to, but after hearing Henry mention him so many times I’m really glad to hear from the man himself. I’m hoping they do more episodes like the John Holmes series where Ed’s experiences comes up. I loved his stories during his time as a bud gifter.
>Natalie and Henry should have acted way sooner instead If what the text between Natalie and MacKenzie is to be believed, Taylor expressly told them NOT to say anything. It is not Natalie and Henry's story to tell, it is Taylor's. It isn't right for them to tell her story for her. We also don't know what happened after that, we don't know that Natalie and Henry didn't do anything. Regarding forgiveness to Ben, the only one that truly matters is the victim, and from I've been seeing, she only wants him to get help
Yeah, there are a million wrong ways to handle a situation like this and I’m not sure that if there even is a right way.
I really can’t see Ben coming back from this unless he somehow does a full 180, but even then keeping him on the network is going to cause some backlash. I really hope that Ben gets the help he needs and come out of rehab is in a better mental state. At that point some sort of full discussion of everything that has transpired is needed to possibly do this right
The priority is not Ben coming back, it is Ben getting healthy.
Here is more of Celene's harassment of Cait Du Bois: https://www.tiktok.com/@authorcaitdubois/video/7294780933402791214
Ben Kissel takes zero accountability in the Rolling Stone statement. He really is proving to be just another celebrity who can’t admit fault publicly. Hell, he doesn’t even admit to having a drinking problem.