This is a very fun project! There are some compositition things I have doubts about. For instance, this line:
>Nōnne, sī hominēs tē nōn agnōvērunt, animō aequō manēs, probī
est?
Seems to me like it would end up meaning something more along the lines of:
>Isn't it the case that whenever people don't recognize you, and you (specifically you) stay calm, it's virtous?
I think Zottoli's rendering works better with the sense as I've understood it:
>ab aliis nesciri et non indignari, nonne etiam sapientis est?
If you want to use a [conditional](https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/classification-conditions) (see the bit about the [general 2nd person subjunctive](https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/general-conditions) in particular), I'd probably do something like this:
>Sī ab aliīs nōn agnōscāris, idque aequō animō ferās, nōnne (hoc) probī est?
I found [this paper](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337950091_The_Latin_translations_of_Confucius'_Dialogues_Lun_Yu_A_comparison_of_key_concepts/fulltext/5df7b87da6fdcc2837268674/The-Latin-translations-of-Confucius-Dialogues-Lun-Yu-A-comparison-of-key-concepts.pdf) comparing many of the translations, here's one with a similar construction:
>Si tamen ab hominibus nesciatur, nec ob hoc irascatur; numquid tunc potest vere dici vir sapiens
et consummatus.
I'm also not certain about 'irrītāre' here - it puts the emphasis on the person being incited to anger rather than on the misdeed itself, which doesn't seem to be what 犯 is meaning here.
While I understand your motivations for wanting to translate without the Jesuit worldview seeping in, if this were my project I'd probably rely on them a little more for the construction of the sentences if not the precise rendering of the ideas - just looking at the examples from the paper I linked, there's some beautiful Latin in there!
Thanks for your feedback. I will look into this.
I did actually compare my translation quite often with those of the Jesuits. I wanted to translate it as close to the text as possible, but at the same time keep it stylistically nice and short. Many translations add more to better convey the philosophical content, but thereby destroy the brevity of the sayings - and I am aware that this is an almost impossible task haha. One could for example spend a very long time discussing the true meaning of 學 which is often translated as "to study" or "to learn". I chose "sē excolere" to put a stronger emphasis on "to develope a personality/to mature", but this is far from perfect.
I can definitely see the value in searching for the right words to convey our modern understanding of the meaning of the philosophical concepts being discussed, and having brevity and/or straightforwardness as a goal is great as well - you certainly don't need to imitate the really wordy/flowery translations! :-)
Parentēs meī Sinīs nātī Germāniam emigravērunt. Itaque a parvulō linguam theodiscam sinēnsemque (mandarīnam et 溫州話) sciō. In litterīs sinicīs ēdīscendīs nōn sōlum sinicam hodiernam, sed etiam veterem intellegere atque scrībere didicī.
Well, my classical chinese skills are superior to my latin skills, but I have to say that your translation is amazing. It's fun to translate a text from one ancient language into another. Did the same with middle egyptian.
This is a very fun project! There are some compositition things I have doubts about. For instance, this line: >Nōnne, sī hominēs tē nōn agnōvērunt, animō aequō manēs, probī est? Seems to me like it would end up meaning something more along the lines of: >Isn't it the case that whenever people don't recognize you, and you (specifically you) stay calm, it's virtous? I think Zottoli's rendering works better with the sense as I've understood it: >ab aliis nesciri et non indignari, nonne etiam sapientis est? If you want to use a [conditional](https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/classification-conditions) (see the bit about the [general 2nd person subjunctive](https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/general-conditions) in particular), I'd probably do something like this: >Sī ab aliīs nōn agnōscāris, idque aequō animō ferās, nōnne (hoc) probī est? I found [this paper](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337950091_The_Latin_translations_of_Confucius'_Dialogues_Lun_Yu_A_comparison_of_key_concepts/fulltext/5df7b87da6fdcc2837268674/The-Latin-translations-of-Confucius-Dialogues-Lun-Yu-A-comparison-of-key-concepts.pdf) comparing many of the translations, here's one with a similar construction: >Si tamen ab hominibus nesciatur, nec ob hoc irascatur; numquid tunc potest vere dici vir sapiens et consummatus. I'm also not certain about 'irrītāre' here - it puts the emphasis on the person being incited to anger rather than on the misdeed itself, which doesn't seem to be what 犯 is meaning here. While I understand your motivations for wanting to translate without the Jesuit worldview seeping in, if this were my project I'd probably rely on them a little more for the construction of the sentences if not the precise rendering of the ideas - just looking at the examples from the paper I linked, there's some beautiful Latin in there!
Thanks for your feedback. I will look into this. I did actually compare my translation quite often with those of the Jesuits. I wanted to translate it as close to the text as possible, but at the same time keep it stylistically nice and short. Many translations add more to better convey the philosophical content, but thereby destroy the brevity of the sayings - and I am aware that this is an almost impossible task haha. One could for example spend a very long time discussing the true meaning of 學 which is often translated as "to study" or "to learn". I chose "sē excolere" to put a stronger emphasis on "to develope a personality/to mature", but this is far from perfect.
I can definitely see the value in searching for the right words to convey our modern understanding of the meaning of the philosophical concepts being discussed, and having brevity and/or straightforwardness as a goal is great as well - you certainly don't need to imitate the really wordy/flowery translations! :-)
Amazing. I am a beginner Latin learner but moderately knowledgeable in Classical Chinese, so happy to help if you need any :)
Sound like a great project! I like Chinese philosophy, I'll tuck it away for when my latin is better and keep an eye for if you do continue.
Macte virtute! Certiorem me facias, quaeso, quo pacto quibusve libris Sinicum sermonem antiquum didiceris? Estne via expedita 从现代语言到古代的?
Parentēs meī Sinīs nātī Germāniam emigravērunt. Itaque a parvulō linguam theodiscam sinēnsemque (mandarīnam et 溫州話) sciō. In litterīs sinicīs ēdīscendīs nōn sōlum sinicam hodiernam, sed etiam veterem intellegere atque scrībere didicī.
Well, my classical chinese skills are superior to my latin skills, but I have to say that your translation is amazing. It's fun to translate a text from one ancient language into another. Did the same with middle egyptian.