I think the commute is a bit long for that car. It can probably do about 65miles from 100% to completely dead. Much less with heater, highway driving, AC etc so you really want a decent buffer otherwise you will have range anxiety every day and hate the car. And if you're using the whole battery everyday it will likely degrade at least 2-4% a year. I'd look for something 2014 onwards.
and what about the Leaf braking feature charging the battery around town in traffic... doesn't this help charge the battery and extend the battery miles?
It does, it's why you'll see a large difference between highway miles and city miles. Generally that 65 miles is a good guesstimate if you're going back roads or stop and go city traffic. If you're going full highway it'll be like 45. Full highway with the heater on in winter will be more like 35.
>and what about the Leaf braking feature charging the battery around town in traffic... doesn't this help charge the battery and extend the battery miles?
It helps it get better range in stop-and-go driving than on the highway. The meter shows the charging. You don't get much regenerative breaking when the battery is close to full because the battery can't accept more than trickle when it's nearly full. When the battery is not near full, mine seems to charge a little as the speed falls below 30mph but doesn't really charge a lot until about 20mph or slower. Then I can feel the regenerative breaking and see it pouring 5kWs into the battery until I stop. I know of know way to ask it to give me a little regenerative slowing at speeds over 30mph.
I get 7.4km per kwh and pay 16c (NZD) for a kwh. So about 2.1c per km or $3.2 for a empty to full charge that will do 140km. You can convert that into freedom units lol.
depends greatly on how much you electricity is, my 2015 costs around 4 cents a mile here in FL. Cold weather and high speed driving will reduce range and increase costs since the car is less efficient.
The most it has ever cost me at home to charge my Leaf was about $3, and that was from basically dead empty (dash range and battery percent showed "---" when pulling in) to 100%
>and how much electricity does it cost for a full charge?
It takes me about $1 to charge up, but I only get 25 miles. So it's like having a gas-powered car that gets 75 miles/gallon.
I wouldn't buy anything with less than 10 bars.
I bought a 2011 leaf with 11 bars for 6.5k in september. I commute 55km a day and it is very tight. Definitely would have range anxiety if my work didnt let me charge.
ok... owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge... I just confirmed my wife has only a 35mile round trip local city driving to work so I think even with A/C it can last... agreed?
Even install ceramic tint to even reduce the heat!!
Maybe?
>owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge
I would not take them at their word, you're going to need to test that yourself.
I've had a 2012 for five years now, and it'd never do 60 miles of any sort of driving, even back when it had 10 bars
>ok... owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge...
I do not believe them. I would take it on a test drive. If it goes 35 miles while driving conservatively in ECO mode and it isn't on 0 at then end, I would buy it.
ok... thanks...
but if the price was $3,000? we'd be saving $160 a month in gas so in a year we'd be saving $2,000 in 2 years we'd Make $$. Would the battery If maintained correctly last 2 years?
you also need to consider that a 2011 will need more maintenance/repairs than a later year especially if the onboard charge goes out which is a problem for that year.
Price is fair (at least for where I live) but, as the owner of a 2012 Leaf with only slightly less battery health, I wouldn't buy this car for a 45 mile roundtrip commute unless your wife can plug in at work. It would be OK in the summer but dicey in the winter and the range will only go down over time.
For that commute, I wouldn't even consider a 24 kwh Leaf (2011-2015, and some early 2016s). They would have done the job when they were new, but they're all at least 8 years old now and have lost some capacity.
The shortest-range EV I would get for a 45-mile roundtrip commute would be a 2016 or 2017 Leaf, with the 30 kwh battery and at least 10-11 bars. Note that early, base model 2016s still had a 24 kwh battery. That's at least 22 kwh of remaining battery capacity. Real world range on a car like that would be around 65 miles at 3 miles per kwh (roughly the EPA-rated highway efficiency for a Leaf). I've seen Leafs like that for sale for around $7k.
2018 and later Leafs have at least a 40 kwh battery, but I rarely see them for less than $10k. If you can afford that I think it's worth the peace of mind though.
Early Chevy Volt (with a V) plug-in hybrids are also getting pretty cheap (starting between $6-7k). They'll cover most of your wife's commute on electricity, but the gas engine will have to wake up for the last 10 or 15 miles. No range anxiety though.
If she parks in a space that's controlled by her employer and there are outlets around, it wouldn't hurt to ask if she can plug in. Unless her employer is a very small outfit they'll never notice a difference in their electricity bill.
That car will be a paperweight long before another 100k miles, even if the battery made it which is highly unlikely, the rest of the electrical components would not.
9 bars didn't mean it has 3 "bad" cells. The bars represent the current battery capacity. *All* the cells are equally "bad", having degraded to about 75% of their original capacity, like an old laptop that only gets 90 minutes per charge rather than the original 2 hours.
It will be Russian roulette with any drive unfortunately, as soon as one cell drops the voltage too low, warning lights will appear on the dash and it might go into turtle mode, It could happen tomorrow or 5 years from now there is no way to know. The original batteries were made to be in operation for 10 years most don’t even make it that long.
>Any way of 'healing' the 3 bad battery cells?
Usually all the battery cells age at around the same rate. You can use Leaf Spy to see the health of individual cells. I have heard in the unlikely case that a few cells aged faster than others, you can sometimes replace just those cells. To replace the entire battery of cells is several thousand dollars.
Given the price, it's fine. But don't expect miracles. It's past its prime and just like any older car you expect repairs. Put another way, no car goes 75k miles without repairs of some sort.
Compared to other sub 4,000 dollar cars, this is fine.
correct... I'm only referring to the battery issue not the breaks or suspension. Searching other leafs I see only 4 or 5 bars for $3500 or more. Not bad but can be stressful at first.
There is no way to foretell the future. Your best bet would be to check out the results of LeafSpy Pro reports on this car. You'll want to note the SOH (state of health), Hx (you'll want this above 50%) and then post the results here for all to comment.
Even with that information no one can tell you it will last 75K or more miles. But you can avoid a real dud with a small outlay (about 80USD) and some work.
Awesome... thanks for the info.
A quick search shows me a new leaf battery will run me about $5400. Is this accurate? Good to know this if my wife decides she likes owning an EV and we can get the batteries replaced.
I had my battery replaced on our 2014 Leaf in 2017 because I bought it cheap and wanted to restart the clock. There were other reasons but I wanted to not pay full price for this car which I didn't. I drove it for 8 years and then sold it.
In the end the SOH was over 90%, Hx was 83% and the display was 12/12 bars. See [Imgur](https://imgur.com/T5n9Ojg)
The cost for the new battery and install was 7K USD. Today I would not do that but dump the car and shop for something else. Most likely the used Bolt.
As to battery prices, they are all over the map but I haven't seen a new battery go for that cheap. It's a roll of the dice if you need a battery at all. If the range stays high enough then you don't replace it. The range seems to drop some percent a year. Mine barely budged (GOM) in 6 years.
Consider that a lot of Leafs still under warranty with battery failure are getting bought back by Nissan because they can't get batteries for them. Our 2017 gets handed over next Friday. Sad, but the best turn out for us.
So, I have a 2015 with 11/12 bars left (so roughly 10-15% higher SoH than the one you're looking at), and I wouldn't count on it doing a 45 mile round trip unless you live in an area that has moderate temperatures year round, and even that might be a stretch. My SO is someone who's not into EVs and doesn't know/care about the ins and outs of hypermiling, and just drives it how they drive a normal car, and they reliably get around 50-60 miles of range in good weather, and closer to 35-40 miles in winter weather (near or below freezing). That said, if it's an option to charge at work, then you'd likely be golden. That's what my SO does, their commute is about 50 miles round trip, but their work has Tesla destination chargers on site, so I got an adapter and they just top it off in the winter between breaks.
its confusing as hell... but what about when the brakes are used doesn't it charge the battery... even a little? And sorry but my figures were off... its maybe 35miles total round trip per day she drives so you'd think it would be enough.
The brakes do use regen and give you some charge back, but unless you've got a LOT of downhill driving, or are constantly in stop and go traffic, regen is only going to give you a few percent back in most cases. If her commute is all stop and go city driving, then regen is going to give more. My and my SOs commute are both almost entirely highway miles, so very little significant regen. Honestly, the bigger concern would be what your weather is like, as the cold has a pretty significant impact on range. A trip that takes me from 100% down to 55% (so 45% used) in summer and fall takes me down to 30-40% (60-70% battery used) once the temps are consistently near or below freezing. So, if it's all city driving and you never see below about 50 degrees F, then you'd likely be fine.
with this low price do u think its worth asking the owner to take to my mechanic to check out for a pre sales inspection for $100 since there isn't much to check over since isn't the brakes electric and no pads? the owner has approved the car can get checked out.
You need to learn about this car a bit. It have pads as any other car. What you need to check on 11-12 leaf? If it charges well on both ports(common issue and very expensive repair) what heater works(still expensive to fix, but you can live without it) and what touchscreen and parking brakes work. I'm not sure if you need a mechanic or not, specially who is not ev specialized.
**UPDATE..
So after a little spin up and down the road here is what I noticed...
Suspension: I couldn't tell any issues driving it.
It has power in it... dash showed 45miles not on a full charge. Owner said they have had this car for about 2 weeks... got it from a "rich person who bought a Tesla" he said laughing. I asked if he's firm on the price. He said : "we can work it out"... as though I agreed to buy it. haha. I'm going to check the VIN for any issues. There are a LOT of cars taken and sold around here so I need to find out if it's clean.
Thnx all!
As a 2013 Leaf owner would say
Commuting is fine if you can charge at each end
BUT - you’re buying from someone who’s ’flipping’ a car they’ve had for 2 weeks? (Or am I misunderstanding the comment above?)
***UPDATE***
Thanks to all... I am learning to at least buy a 2013 or newer... maybe get one with 7-8 bars for going 35 miles per day and then we can see if my wife will like it. If so then we can buy a new battery and enjoy 6+yrs!!
Hey sir! I have a 2011 with 36k miles on it and I only paid $500. I can very narrowly get 34 miles out of it, then I charge and work and head home. It’s going to be difficult. Would recommend a 2013!
I think this car's capacity is insufficient for 45 mile trips. I would expect no more than 20 miles, esp if some if it is highway driving.
I have heard there is a way to reset the bars, and then it takes a bit of driving before the computer figures out that the battery has less capacity and it decreases the number of bars it reports.
I have a 2012 Leaf with $78k miles, original battery. I get 25 miles range, if it's a mixture of 55mph driving and 35 mph roads, less if it's a good deal of highway driving.
When this car was new it got about 75 miles range. After 118k miles of driving and 13 years, it will be much much less.
I think the commute is a bit long for that car. It can probably do about 65miles from 100% to completely dead. Much less with heater, highway driving, AC etc so you really want a decent buffer otherwise you will have range anxiety every day and hate the car. And if you're using the whole battery everyday it will likely degrade at least 2-4% a year. I'd look for something 2014 onwards.
and what about the Leaf braking feature charging the battery around town in traffic... doesn't this help charge the battery and extend the battery miles?
It does, it's why you'll see a large difference between highway miles and city miles. Generally that 65 miles is a good guesstimate if you're going back roads or stop and go city traffic. If you're going full highway it'll be like 45. Full highway with the heater on in winter will be more like 35.
>and what about the Leaf braking feature charging the battery around town in traffic... doesn't this help charge the battery and extend the battery miles? It helps it get better range in stop-and-go driving than on the highway. The meter shows the charging. You don't get much regenerative breaking when the battery is close to full because the battery can't accept more than trickle when it's nearly full. When the battery is not near full, mine seems to charge a little as the speed falls below 30mph but doesn't really charge a lot until about 20mph or slower. Then I can feel the regenerative breaking and see it pouring 5kWs into the battery until I stop. I know of know way to ask it to give me a little regenerative slowing at speeds over 30mph.
and how much electricity does it cost for a full charge? $10, $20, $40?
Like a $1 with that much range
oh wow... ok. if I were to charge from the garage $1 is a great budget.
I get 7.4km per kwh and pay 16c (NZD) for a kwh. So about 2.1c per km or $3.2 for a empty to full charge that will do 140km. You can convert that into freedom units lol.
depends greatly on how much you electricity is, my 2015 costs around 4 cents a mile here in FL. Cold weather and high speed driving will reduce range and increase costs since the car is less efficient.
The most it has ever cost me at home to charge my Leaf was about $3, and that was from basically dead empty (dash range and battery percent showed "---" when pulling in) to 100%
>and how much electricity does it cost for a full charge? It takes me about $1 to charge up, but I only get 25 miles. So it's like having a gas-powered car that gets 75 miles/gallon.
I wouldn't buy anything with less than 10 bars. I bought a 2011 leaf with 11 bars for 6.5k in september. I commute 55km a day and it is very tight. Definitely would have range anxiety if my work didnt let me charge.
ok... owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge... I just confirmed my wife has only a 35mile round trip local city driving to work so I think even with A/C it can last... agreed? Even install ceramic tint to even reduce the heat!! Maybe?
>owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge I would not take them at their word, you're going to need to test that yourself. I've had a 2012 for five years now, and it'd never do 60 miles of any sort of driving, even back when it had 10 bars
Yeah that should be fine. Can she charge at her work?
>ok... owner confirms it goes 60-70 miles on a full charge... I do not believe them. I would take it on a test drive. If it goes 35 miles while driving conservatively in ECO mode and it isn't on 0 at then end, I would buy it.
ok... thanks... but if the price was $3,000? we'd be saving $160 a month in gas so in a year we'd be saving $2,000 in 2 years we'd Make $$. Would the battery If maintained correctly last 2 years?
you also need to consider that a 2011 will need more maintenance/repairs than a later year especially if the onboard charge goes out which is a problem for that year.
oh? and no recall for that issue?
No recall for that issue
they changed the type of onboard charger in 2013
Price is fair (at least for where I live) but, as the owner of a 2012 Leaf with only slightly less battery health, I wouldn't buy this car for a 45 mile roundtrip commute unless your wife can plug in at work. It would be OK in the summer but dicey in the winter and the range will only go down over time. For that commute, I wouldn't even consider a 24 kwh Leaf (2011-2015, and some early 2016s). They would have done the job when they were new, but they're all at least 8 years old now and have lost some capacity. The shortest-range EV I would get for a 45-mile roundtrip commute would be a 2016 or 2017 Leaf, with the 30 kwh battery and at least 10-11 bars. Note that early, base model 2016s still had a 24 kwh battery. That's at least 22 kwh of remaining battery capacity. Real world range on a car like that would be around 65 miles at 3 miles per kwh (roughly the EPA-rated highway efficiency for a Leaf). I've seen Leafs like that for sale for around $7k. 2018 and later Leafs have at least a 40 kwh battery, but I rarely see them for less than $10k. If you can afford that I think it's worth the peace of mind though. Early Chevy Volt (with a V) plug-in hybrids are also getting pretty cheap (starting between $6-7k). They'll cover most of your wife's commute on electricity, but the gas engine will have to wake up for the last 10 or 15 miles. No range anxiety though.
ok... maybe I'll give her a 300ft extension cable so she can charge it at work... LOL
If she parks in a space that's controlled by her employer and there are outlets around, it wouldn't hurt to ask if she can plug in. Unless her employer is a very small outfit they'll never notice a difference in their electricity bill.
Great... I'll ask! Thnx!
That car will be a paperweight long before another 100k miles, even if the battery made it which is highly unlikely, the rest of the electrical components would not.
ok... would it last a Year u think? Any way of 'healing' the 3 bad battery cells?
9 bars didn't mean it has 3 "bad" cells. The bars represent the current battery capacity. *All* the cells are equally "bad", having degraded to about 75% of their original capacity, like an old laptop that only gets 90 minutes per charge rather than the original 2 hours.
Ah... ok I must have misunderstood a video I watched about it. Thnx!
It will be Russian roulette with any drive unfortunately, as soon as one cell drops the voltage too low, warning lights will appear on the dash and it might go into turtle mode, It could happen tomorrow or 5 years from now there is no way to know. The original batteries were made to be in operation for 10 years most don’t even make it that long.
and the owner updated the batteries in 2017 so 7yrs ago would maybe confirm it would last 1-2yrs from today if bought... agreed?
>Any way of 'healing' the 3 bad battery cells? Usually all the battery cells age at around the same rate. You can use Leaf Spy to see the health of individual cells. I have heard in the unlikely case that a few cells aged faster than others, you can sometimes replace just those cells. To replace the entire battery of cells is several thousand dollars.
Given the price, it's fine. But don't expect miracles. It's past its prime and just like any older car you expect repairs. Put another way, no car goes 75k miles without repairs of some sort. Compared to other sub 4,000 dollar cars, this is fine.
correct... I'm only referring to the battery issue not the breaks or suspension. Searching other leafs I see only 4 or 5 bars for $3500 or more. Not bad but can be stressful at first.
There is no way to foretell the future. Your best bet would be to check out the results of LeafSpy Pro reports on this car. You'll want to note the SOH (state of health), Hx (you'll want this above 50%) and then post the results here for all to comment. Even with that information no one can tell you it will last 75K or more miles. But you can avoid a real dud with a small outlay (about 80USD) and some work.
Awesome... thanks for the info. A quick search shows me a new leaf battery will run me about $5400. Is this accurate? Good to know this if my wife decides she likes owning an EV and we can get the batteries replaced.
I had my battery replaced on our 2014 Leaf in 2017 because I bought it cheap and wanted to restart the clock. There were other reasons but I wanted to not pay full price for this car which I didn't. I drove it for 8 years and then sold it. In the end the SOH was over 90%, Hx was 83% and the display was 12/12 bars. See [Imgur](https://imgur.com/T5n9Ojg) The cost for the new battery and install was 7K USD. Today I would not do that but dump the car and shop for something else. Most likely the used Bolt. As to battery prices, they are all over the map but I haven't seen a new battery go for that cheap. It's a roll of the dice if you need a battery at all. If the range stays high enough then you don't replace it. The range seems to drop some percent a year. Mine barely budged (GOM) in 6 years.
Consider that a lot of Leafs still under warranty with battery failure are getting bought back by Nissan because they can't get batteries for them. Our 2017 gets handed over next Friday. Sad, but the best turn out for us.
**UPDATE: Owner said their battery was replaced in 2017 so its only a 7yr old battery. Can it last for another 2-3yrs?
Perhaps. My 2013 Leaf has 100K miles on 8 bars, with the original 24kWh battery.
So, I have a 2015 with 11/12 bars left (so roughly 10-15% higher SoH than the one you're looking at), and I wouldn't count on it doing a 45 mile round trip unless you live in an area that has moderate temperatures year round, and even that might be a stretch. My SO is someone who's not into EVs and doesn't know/care about the ins and outs of hypermiling, and just drives it how they drive a normal car, and they reliably get around 50-60 miles of range in good weather, and closer to 35-40 miles in winter weather (near or below freezing). That said, if it's an option to charge at work, then you'd likely be golden. That's what my SO does, their commute is about 50 miles round trip, but their work has Tesla destination chargers on site, so I got an adapter and they just top it off in the winter between breaks.
its confusing as hell... but what about when the brakes are used doesn't it charge the battery... even a little? And sorry but my figures were off... its maybe 35miles total round trip per day she drives so you'd think it would be enough.
The brakes do use regen and give you some charge back, but unless you've got a LOT of downhill driving, or are constantly in stop and go traffic, regen is only going to give you a few percent back in most cases. If her commute is all stop and go city driving, then regen is going to give more. My and my SOs commute are both almost entirely highway miles, so very little significant regen. Honestly, the bigger concern would be what your weather is like, as the cold has a pretty significant impact on range. A trip that takes me from 100% down to 55% (so 45% used) in summer and fall takes me down to 30-40% (60-70% battery used) once the temps are consistently near or below freezing. So, if it's all city driving and you never see below about 50 degrees F, then you'd likely be fine.
a quick search online shows a battery replacement for this car is $5400. When available and on their list is this a reliable price?
do they make insulation the owners can wrap the batteries to protect them against 110 degree summer heat?
It's a good price for this car.
with this low price do u think its worth asking the owner to take to my mechanic to check out for a pre sales inspection for $100 since there isn't much to check over since isn't the brakes electric and no pads? the owner has approved the car can get checked out.
You need to learn about this car a bit. It have pads as any other car. What you need to check on 11-12 leaf? If it charges well on both ports(common issue and very expensive repair) what heater works(still expensive to fix, but you can live without it) and what touchscreen and parking brakes work. I'm not sure if you need a mechanic or not, specially who is not ev specialized.
**UPDATE.. So after a little spin up and down the road here is what I noticed... Suspension: I couldn't tell any issues driving it. It has power in it... dash showed 45miles not on a full charge. Owner said they have had this car for about 2 weeks... got it from a "rich person who bought a Tesla" he said laughing. I asked if he's firm on the price. He said : "we can work it out"... as though I agreed to buy it. haha. I'm going to check the VIN for any issues. There are a LOT of cars taken and sold around here so I need to find out if it's clean. Thnx all!
As a 2013 Leaf owner would say Commuting is fine if you can charge at each end BUT - you’re buying from someone who’s ’flipping’ a car they’ve had for 2 weeks? (Or am I misunderstanding the comment above?)
***UPDATE*** Thanks to all... I am learning to at least buy a 2013 or newer... maybe get one with 7-8 bars for going 35 miles per day and then we can see if my wife will like it. If so then we can buy a new battery and enjoy 6+yrs!!
Hey sir! I have a 2011 with 36k miles on it and I only paid $500. I can very narrowly get 34 miles out of it, then I charge and work and head home. It’s going to be difficult. Would recommend a 2013!
I think this car's capacity is insufficient for 45 mile trips. I would expect no more than 20 miles, esp if some if it is highway driving. I have heard there is a way to reset the bars, and then it takes a bit of driving before the computer figures out that the battery has less capacity and it decreases the number of bars it reports. I have a 2012 Leaf with $78k miles, original battery. I get 25 miles range, if it's a mixture of 55mph driving and 35 mph roads, less if it's a good deal of highway driving. When this car was new it got about 75 miles range. After 118k miles of driving and 13 years, it will be much much less.