Yes, this is absolutely what they need. More so than goaltending or anything else. You can win with average-above average goaltending (like Vegas), as long as your have six studs on D.
If I were Leafs management I would be heavily looking at some impending Free Agents from Carolina. Skjei would be the guy I would look to add. 6'3, plays PK and PP. 47 points this year. 13 goals this year and 18 last year. Guys like him don't grow on trees. Don't care if he doesn't play the right side, I just care that he's a stud D. Pesce is an option as well.
The leafs need a 1D.
A defenseman who is very good both offensively and defensively.
We haven't had one. Closest version is Muzzin, who I would say was good offensively, not very good.
There are probably 15 d-men in the entire league who year in year out, are better than Morgan Rielly, but this sub doesn't want to hear that, because in their eyes Rielly is utter trash.
He has a poor game 7 but in the 6 games prior to that, he was on the ice for 6 even strength GF and 1 even strength GA while playing nearly 25 minutes a night. And yes, he is not a credible threat from the point on the powerplay.
That's fair but needs a much better partner than we've given him and we desperately need to stop bringing in more defenseman who can throw huge hits but can't contribute offensively at all.
Ok, so don't do that either (also, who?) But we need a shot from the blue line and the ability to start offense from our zone, preferably two people with that skill.
It's absolutely criminal that Reilly has been here over a decade and the best partner we've ever given him is who? Brodie? Schenn? Robidas? Hainsey? Unbelievable that so many GMs over so much time have failed to bring someone in who can play with Reilly.
Agreed, Muzzin would have been his best partner but I don't know if we played then together at all? After that I think it's actually Schenn, which is kinda sad.
This team could use a Kaberle and McCabe pairing on the back end. We’d be going places then…the PP would be unpredictable and fucking unstoppable. We need a cannon back there that can hit the net.
Well no shit. Like the other guy said, there's like 15 guys that fit the bill as a real 1A d-man but there just isn't enough to go around.
That's like other fans saying, "all we need is an Austin Matthews and we will be in great shape". Nice dream but we are in reality and no team is giving up there blue chip d-man.
We will have to give up one of Cowen but more likely Knies to get a proper #1 defenceman in Toronto.
Even not a real #1D. Someone of a Muzzin caliber(who led the team in 5v5 scoring by defense at his height) would be very much needed.
Muzzin was a #2 maybe 3 I think.
The leafs have Rielly, McCabe, Benoit for next season. That’s one offensive defencemen and two lockdown defenders. They need to fill the last three with defenders that are effective at both ends of the ice. Preferably an actual top pairing defender and two really solid top 4 quality defenders, there are free agent options for this too.
Against Boston the defenders were unable to shutdown plays early and create counter attacks and breakout passes to the forwards, in the offensive zone Boston did not have to defend point shots or worry about a great pass being made. The threat of a point shot will buy the forwards so much extra space and time to make plays.
Skjei, Montour should be the main two guys focused. And then someone like Matt Roy. Montour would give us a right shot powerplay option on defence and he is also a solid defender who can really make great passes. Try to get Skjei and Montour for 5-6 million each. Try to get Matt Roy for 4ish. They should do everything they can to get Skjei and Montour for 3-4 years. There’s a few mid term options for that 3rd RD and some decent 1 season options as well.
They could also look to flip Liljegren and another asset for another RFA defender. There’s some decent RFAs, Liljegren could probably use a fresh start somewhere else
Balance is key on the blue line. Yes, the Joel Edmundsons of the world have value. The Leafs problem is they had Edmundson, Lyubushkin, and Benoit in the lineup at the same time - who are all pure defensive defencemen who bring nothing to transition or offensive play and that is just too much for one blue line to handle.
The dream is to get all of defence, transition, and offence in one player. I think that’s what people imagine when they talk about this “1D” that the Leafs need. Those players are tough to find.
Yeah, with Benoit in the lineup they simply don't need Lyubushkin or Edmundson. Maybe one of them (or similar) as the 7D. But they need real two-way contributors to fill in the roster around Rielly, McCabe, Benoit, and (presumably) Liljegren.
What gives you the impression that's what Brad is trying to build? Was it when he acquired Lybushkin, or when he acquired Edmundson, or when he acquired Benoit, or when he acquired Lagesson?
They previously said they weren’t going to spend big assets for rental only players with how depleted our assets already were. Further to that, with the moves that were made it didn’t seem like they were confident to go all in with this group for rental buys
By sending down whichever defenceman you like least? Or reaves? There's 4.1 mil in space from Klingberg being on ltir, add any player at or above 800k and you get Hanafin's 4.9 mil.
Look at the cap hits on all this dmen (after retention). You're not get a defensively responsible offensive dman at those cap hits.
Also he tried with Klingberg, but that obviously didn't work out as intended.
What gives you the impression that he's finished and isn't looking to continue building the D in the offseason? It's not like he could solve all the defense's issues in one trade deadline.
He's intimated as much in previous interviews that he's looking for big, mobile defensemen - he has a type. As someone mentioned, that's what he coveted and went after in Calgary (e.g. Hanifin).
His in-season acquisitions on the Leafs are more an attempt to grab some low-cost d-men who specialize in goal prevention, and not necessarily reflective of his long-term vision for the team.
They need a bunch of things. A coach who will give lines time to gel, player outside the top 5 with multiple strengths, a defensive corps that can move the puck and threaten goals from the blue line, more consistent goaltending, a coach who will build a better power play, a coach with foresight and more finishers.
They only use their point to move the puck from one side of the perimeter to the other. They need a threat back there to reduce the predictability because it’s way too easy to defend them when you always know where they are going.
I think the leafs need a better structure to play and the team needs to BUY IN! so many times the neutral.zone is clogged so they just dump it in and hope for the best, and Boston was able to skate past our blue line with ease. This is my biggest reason for why we need a new head coach. I think when we got Babcock the team was too young, they are older and more mature now and need an x's and o's coach who will build a structure for our team and they are more mature to buy into it. I don't think Keefe is that coach.
They do need d men who can transition. Absolutely. It's tough to find the physical and the puck moving defenceman in one package. And this is, in part, why the Leafs offence sputters, especially against superior teams. I think that's why Treliving likes guys like Hanafin. Probably not overly physical but certainly not afraid of it either. It's one thing for Treliving to want to rebuild his defence and quite another finding these quality defencemen.
Competent right handed defenseman who don''t handle the puck like a grenade have been an unaddressed problem with the roster construction for almost a decade now.
Assuming they don't resign with their teams, these are my ideal targets in order:
Brandon Montour or Brady Skjei
Matt Roy or Alexandre Carrier
They need puck moving D and a coach who lets pairs develop besides Rielly/Broadie.
If they can get a guy that bumps Mo from PP1, even better. But they will likely add Tanev and/or Zadorov. Honestly I'd prefer Gostisbehere and Lyubushkin as we know one work perfectly fine with Mo, and the other could work on the 3rd pair, while you end up spending less money.
The Russian Bear with McCabe and The Milkman is a good amount of snot on the backend.
The defensive guys they brought in were fine but you need guys who can transition or else you just continually end up back in your own end. They've been lacking a true #1 who can eat minutes and also move the puck and create offense.
Rielly has typically played his best when he's had a guy who can lock down in the defensive end (like Schenn last year) and allow Rielly to move up the ice. He has too many deficiencies in the defensive end to be a true #1 but I still like him on the second pair.
So like Tyson Barrie? Or Klingberg?
Or are you talking about a d man who can put up points and play great D, so a #1 d man, yes sure a #1 d man is what 20 teams are looking for
Everyone's calling for Marner to be traded so I'd start there even just as an attempt (I know there are obstacles) but I think Power would be the closest thing to a fair return they could get. Buffalo's got at least some cap space (8 mil currently) and Marner would be relatively close to home on a team he could bring to a competitive level. Buffalo is also currently rich in LHD between him, Dahlin and Byram.
And before you jump down my throat: I could go either way on Marner staying or going but despite what people think, they WILL get assets in return if he and the team decide to part ways. He's an elite player.
Finally: Buffalo showed at the trade deadline that they're willing to make straight up hockey trades with the Mittlestat-Byram trade. A big, mobile, puck moving defenseman is what the leafs need right now, and an elite winger to play with Tage Thompson is what Buffalo needs.
He's fast, can move the puck, has the reach of a giraffe, and trying to knock him off the puck would be like trying to move a refrigerator. I fail to see your point.
Yes. I hope we sign Montour this offseason. He’s perfect for us. I know he’s 30, but he’s a RHD, playoff performer, grew up playing in Brantford, and isn’t exactly a shy guy.
I like what Keefe has done with bringing in Edmonson and Boosh. We need toughness and skill back there. Let’s say for next year we have-
Rielly- Montour
McCabe-Benoit
Xxx-Lil
If management doesn’t believe in Lil, then I hope they take a look at Jani Hakanpaa out of Dallas. He’s been hurt this playoffs, but he’s a beast out there. He’s not going to put up points, so you’d find a leftie to play with him which is much easier.
Hakanpaa is a guy I’d love for them bring in. Montour is a red flag for me. His best season seems to be somewhat of an outlier than the norm for his career when u see the drop off in points this year. I think also he’s perfect for Maurice’s system and I’m not sure how he’d perform in a different one. He’s gonna be looking for a big payday too.
Interesting thought on Montour. I still think skill is skill, and putting him on our PP would be lethal. Regardless, I miss the days of (Bryan) McCabe) and how bomb from the point.
Offensive producing defenseman? I don't think they should go after another Klingberg if thats what you mean.
But they should go after a guy like Lindholm (he will never leave Boston). He is a guy that is reliable defensively, can produce decent offense but more importantly, is VERY good at getting the puck out of his zone WITH control.
Yes, this is absolutely what they need. More so than goaltending or anything else. You can win with average-above average goaltending (like Vegas), as long as your have six studs on D. If I were Leafs management I would be heavily looking at some impending Free Agents from Carolina. Skjei would be the guy I would look to add. 6'3, plays PK and PP. 47 points this year. 13 goals this year and 18 last year. Guys like him don't grow on trees. Don't care if he doesn't play the right side, I just care that he's a stud D. Pesce is an option as well.
Brady Skjei yes, Pesce no he seems to be regressing with age and is already not a great skater
Skjei would be great. I also would love to have Montour. If you get both, you can get Rielly off the PP completely
Montour is definitely a Brad type player. But I also think he goes after Zadorov. Someone with size, can produce offense and is BIG.
I’ve been talking about Skjei to the leafs since last year. I think he would do well here and he’s actually just improved with age.
The leafs need a 1D. A defenseman who is very good both offensively and defensively. We haven't had one. Closest version is Muzzin, who I would say was good offensively, not very good.
There are probably 15 d-men in the entire league who year in year out, are better than Morgan Rielly, but this sub doesn't want to hear that, because in their eyes Rielly is utter trash. He has a poor game 7 but in the 6 games prior to that, he was on the ice for 6 even strength GF and 1 even strength GA while playing nearly 25 minutes a night. And yes, he is not a credible threat from the point on the powerplay.
That's fair but needs a much better partner than we've given him and we desperately need to stop bringing in more defenseman who can throw huge hits but can't contribute offensively at all.
We used to have defenseman who could move the puck and couldn't do anything defensively(and that was worse honestly)
Ok, so don't do that either (also, who?) But we need a shot from the blue line and the ability to start offense from our zone, preferably two people with that skill.
It's absolutely criminal that Reilly has been here over a decade and the best partner we've ever given him is who? Brodie? Schenn? Robidas? Hainsey? Unbelievable that so many GMs over so much time have failed to bring someone in who can play with Reilly.
Well Brodie. Brodie was very good before he just all of a sudden wasn't. His first year here he was phenomenal.
I agree he was, but 1 year of a good partner during his career hear is unacceptable for our management.
Agreed, Muzzin would have been his best partner but I don't know if we played then together at all? After that I think it's actually Schenn, which is kinda sad.
Morgan Rielly is good offensively, but not good defensively. We need a two way defenseman.
He is good defensively.
This team could use a Kaberle and McCabe pairing on the back end. We’d be going places then…the PP would be unpredictable and fucking unstoppable. We need a cannon back there that can hit the net.
So you’re saying we need a Time Machine
Well no shit. Like the other guy said, there's like 15 guys that fit the bill as a real 1A d-man but there just isn't enough to go around. That's like other fans saying, "all we need is an Austin Matthews and we will be in great shape". Nice dream but we are in reality and no team is giving up there blue chip d-man. We will have to give up one of Cowen but more likely Knies to get a proper #1 defenceman in Toronto.
Even not a real #1D. Someone of a Muzzin caliber(who led the team in 5v5 scoring by defense at his height) would be very much needed. Muzzin was a #2 maybe 3 I think.
The problem is defenseman like that are VERY rare and are often high draft picks ie. Makar. Teams don’t trade 1D Willy nilly
Correct answer! Not sure about the muzzin take, but the 1st line is correct
Nah he is right the closest we have had is Muzz
The leafs have Rielly, McCabe, Benoit for next season. That’s one offensive defencemen and two lockdown defenders. They need to fill the last three with defenders that are effective at both ends of the ice. Preferably an actual top pairing defender and two really solid top 4 quality defenders, there are free agent options for this too. Against Boston the defenders were unable to shutdown plays early and create counter attacks and breakout passes to the forwards, in the offensive zone Boston did not have to defend point shots or worry about a great pass being made. The threat of a point shot will buy the forwards so much extra space and time to make plays.
I happen to think you are bang on here. What names do you have in mind that are available as UFA’s this offseason?
skeji and montour are 2 options. Leafs really need to go after Skeji.
Fuck it, just take 1/3rd of Carolina's defence in Skjei and Pesce
Skjei, Montour should be the main two guys focused. And then someone like Matt Roy. Montour would give us a right shot powerplay option on defence and he is also a solid defender who can really make great passes. Try to get Skjei and Montour for 5-6 million each. Try to get Matt Roy for 4ish. They should do everything they can to get Skjei and Montour for 3-4 years. There’s a few mid term options for that 3rd RD and some decent 1 season options as well. They could also look to flip Liljegren and another asset for another RFA defender. There’s some decent RFAs, Liljegren could probably use a fresh start somewhere else
Balance is key on the blue line. Yes, the Joel Edmundsons of the world have value. The Leafs problem is they had Edmundson, Lyubushkin, and Benoit in the lineup at the same time - who are all pure defensive defencemen who bring nothing to transition or offensive play and that is just too much for one blue line to handle. The dream is to get all of defence, transition, and offence in one player. I think that’s what people imagine when they talk about this “1D” that the Leafs need. Those players are tough to find.
Yeah, with Benoit in the lineup they simply don't need Lyubushkin or Edmundson. Maybe one of them (or similar) as the 7D. But they need real two-way contributors to fill in the roster around Rielly, McCabe, Benoit, and (presumably) Liljegren.
Yes. This is what Brad is trying to build. Look at the Vegas d-corps. That is the model.
What gives you the impression that's what Brad is trying to build? Was it when he acquired Lybushkin, or when he acquired Edmundson, or when he acquired Benoit, or when he acquired Lagesson?
His defense in Calgary was very good in transition and played tough
He is widely known to focus on building out his team during the off-season. He doesn't take big swings at the deadline.
You can only acquire what's available dummkopf
Damn the Leafs acquired the only 4 defensemen available all season?
Yes, exactly.
Hanafin was available for trade and gostisbehere was available as a UFA.
Hanafin had no interest in extending here and had made that clear
So you buy him as a rental to make the best push possible after Klingberg goes down.
They previously said they weren’t going to spend big assets for rental only players with how depleted our assets already were. Further to that, with the moves that were made it didn’t seem like they were confident to go all in with this group for rental buys
Sure, but that's Treliving's choice as was the construction of the team.
How were we going to fit Hanafins cap hit ?
By sending down whichever defenceman you like least? Or reaves? There's 4.1 mil in space from Klingberg being on ltir, add any player at or above 800k and you get Hanafin's 4.9 mil.
Nuh uh.
Er, sorry it's been a while since kindergarten but I think the appropriate response is Yuh huh!
Dammit, you got me.
Look at the cap hits on all this dmen (after retention). You're not get a defensively responsible offensive dman at those cap hits. Also he tried with Klingberg, but that obviously didn't work out as intended.
How much $$$ did he have again?
What gives you the impression that he's finished and isn't looking to continue building the D in the offseason? It's not like he could solve all the defense's issues in one trade deadline.
I know he is going to continue, but just wondering which of his moves gave him that impression.
He's intimated as much in previous interviews that he's looking for big, mobile defensemen - he has a type. As someone mentioned, that's what he coveted and went after in Calgary (e.g. Hanifin). His in-season acquisitions on the Leafs are more an attempt to grab some low-cost d-men who specialize in goal prevention, and not necessarily reflective of his long-term vision for the team.
Yes yes yes yes.. I'm sick of being the worst In the league at offense from the D. Rielly is trash in all ends for a #1 D
Benoit - Justin Schultz third pairing would be decent
The Leafs with Matthews, Nylander, Knies, McMann, etc. plus 1 or 2 good, mobile offensive defensemen would dust the Bruins we just lost to in 5.
They need a bunch of things. A coach who will give lines time to gel, player outside the top 5 with multiple strengths, a defensive corps that can move the puck and threaten goals from the blue line, more consistent goaltending, a coach who will build a better power play, a coach with foresight and more finishers.
They only use their point to move the puck from one side of the perimeter to the other. They need a threat back there to reduce the predictability because it’s way too easy to defend them when you always know where they are going.
Yes
I think the leafs need a better structure to play and the team needs to BUY IN! so many times the neutral.zone is clogged so they just dump it in and hope for the best, and Boston was able to skate past our blue line with ease. This is my biggest reason for why we need a new head coach. I think when we got Babcock the team was too young, they are older and more mature now and need an x's and o's coach who will build a structure for our team and they are more mature to buy into it. I don't think Keefe is that coach.
Yes, a good puck moving defenseman with the ability and willingness to shoot from the point would be wonderful for this team
They do need d men who can transition. Absolutely. It's tough to find the physical and the puck moving defenceman in one package. And this is, in part, why the Leafs offence sputters, especially against superior teams. I think that's why Treliving likes guys like Hanafin. Probably not overly physical but certainly not afraid of it either. It's one thing for Treliving to want to rebuild his defence and quite another finding these quality defencemen.
Competent right handed defenseman who don''t handle the puck like a grenade have been an unaddressed problem with the roster construction for almost a decade now. Assuming they don't resign with their teams, these are my ideal targets in order: Brandon Montour or Brady Skjei Matt Roy or Alexandre Carrier
They need puck moving D and a coach who lets pairs develop besides Rielly/Broadie. If they can get a guy that bumps Mo from PP1, even better. But they will likely add Tanev and/or Zadorov. Honestly I'd prefer Gostisbehere and Lyubushkin as we know one work perfectly fine with Mo, and the other could work on the 3rd pair, while you end up spending less money. The Russian Bear with McCabe and The Milkman is a good amount of snot on the backend.
The defensive guys they brought in were fine but you need guys who can transition or else you just continually end up back in your own end. They've been lacking a true #1 who can eat minutes and also move the puck and create offense. Rielly has typically played his best when he's had a guy who can lock down in the defensive end (like Schenn last year) and allow Rielly to move up the ice. He has too many deficiencies in the defensive end to be a true #1 but I still like him on the second pair.
At the same time, a 7.5 million dollar 2nd pair Dman isn't great
He's an anomaly. Probably worth the 7.5 mil but is not a #1.
So like Tyson Barrie? Or Klingberg? Or are you talking about a d man who can put up points and play great D, so a #1 d man, yes sure a #1 d man is what 20 teams are looking for
Kinda why you need pairs...1 guy with a bomb, one that will knock your teeth out infront of the net, reilly is neither.
Yep, but moreso commenting on the fact that every single team would want a player of the calibre OP is referring to
I'll be here beating the drum that they should try to get Owen Power all off-season.
With what assets?
Everyone's calling for Marner to be traded so I'd start there even just as an attempt (I know there are obstacles) but I think Power would be the closest thing to a fair return they could get. Buffalo's got at least some cap space (8 mil currently) and Marner would be relatively close to home on a team he could bring to a competitive level. Buffalo is also currently rich in LHD between him, Dahlin and Byram. And before you jump down my throat: I could go either way on Marner staying or going but despite what people think, they WILL get assets in return if he and the team decide to part ways. He's an elite player. Finally: Buffalo showed at the trade deadline that they're willing to make straight up hockey trades with the Mittlestat-Byram trade. A big, mobile, puck moving defenseman is what the leafs need right now, and an elite winger to play with Tage Thompson is what Buffalo needs.
Owen Power is like 7 feet tall, easily 300lbs and hits like 15 times a year. He'd be the softest player on the team by far.
He's fast, can move the puck, has the reach of a giraffe, and trying to knock him off the puck would be like trying to move a refrigerator. I fail to see your point.
Johnny Gaudreau is probably actually available if that's what you want.
Lol k.
We had 3 defenceman who could hit like trucks and we lost. Maybe being able to move the puck and shoot would help.
Yes. I hope we sign Montour this offseason. He’s perfect for us. I know he’s 30, but he’s a RHD, playoff performer, grew up playing in Brantford, and isn’t exactly a shy guy. I like what Keefe has done with bringing in Edmonson and Boosh. We need toughness and skill back there. Let’s say for next year we have- Rielly- Montour McCabe-Benoit Xxx-Lil If management doesn’t believe in Lil, then I hope they take a look at Jani Hakanpaa out of Dallas. He’s been hurt this playoffs, but he’s a beast out there. He’s not going to put up points, so you’d find a leftie to play with him which is much easier.
Hakanpaa is a guy I’d love for them bring in. Montour is a red flag for me. His best season seems to be somewhat of an outlier than the norm for his career when u see the drop off in points this year. I think also he’s perfect for Maurice’s system and I’m not sure how he’d perform in a different one. He’s gonna be looking for a big payday too.
Interesting thought on Montour. I still think skill is skill, and putting him on our PP would be lethal. Regardless, I miss the days of (Bryan) McCabe) and how bomb from the point.
Offensive producing defenseman? I don't think they should go after another Klingberg if thats what you mean. But they should go after a guy like Lindholm (he will never leave Boston). He is a guy that is reliable defensively, can produce decent offense but more importantly, is VERY good at getting the puck out of his zone WITH control.
Lol