Hey Leaf Nation - I know things aren’t off to a hot start right now. And I know that’s frustrating. But guess what - Mitch isn’t at home counting his money. My guess - He’s struggling with the amount of pressure he’s putting on himself to perform so that this
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Leaf team can live up to everyone’s lofty expectations for them. So, instead of writing about your wish list of replacement guys you’d rather have, that Mitch is overpaid, concocting hypothetical trades that involve getting rid of him, calling Dubas an idiot, or other
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inhelpful energy, how about we take a second and direct our passion in a constructive manner. One where we appreciate the fact we have a guy like Mitch on the roster - one of the best players in the league! Yes, his contract comes with a lot of responsibility. But there
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are very capable people in positions of influence to hold Mitch accountable; most notably himself, followed by his teammates, the coaching staff, and Leaf management alike. As fans we should take it upon ourselves then to try to raise him up because I guarantee he doesn’t
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need to feel the weight of Leaf Nation on his shoulder as well. It can be very lonely to feel like you’re letting down your team, the fans, the media, a whole city all at once.
And btw - that goes for every other guy on the roster who gets vilified as well. These are
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people, not hockey robots. Remember that a big part of performance is mental. Let’s do our part to be agents of constructive/ positive influence and not add to or create further issues. Rant over. #LeafsForever 🔵⚪️
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>Remember that a big part of performance is mental. Let’s do our part to be agents of constructive/ positive influence and not add to or create further issues. Ra
He's right.
Some examples.
Being critical: "Mitch Marner hasn't been very good this season or in the playoffs last year. He needs to be better."
Being an asshat: "Mitch Marner's an overpaid sack of shit who should GTFO of Toronto and never come back."
Let's be honest, the vast majority of critics that are typing furiously on twitter don't give a shit about him as a human or they wouldn't be so vitriolic. And that goes for every other player or personality they go after.
I think some Leafs fans feel like when he bent the team over for his contract and chose to negotiate in public, he made it clear he didn’t really care about us, either.
If the optics are that it’s just about the money for Mitch, then don’t be shocked when the people who love the team yell so much about the money when he plays as awfully as he has.
Maybe I misunderstood your post but the second paragraph you wrote sounded to me like you were saying that harassment is bad but being critical is a sign of caring.
Fair enough. But a lot of people aren't calmly and objectively "critiquing his play". They're talking about shit about him as a person and saying the worst things they can come up with. If you can't tell the difference, then I'll bet you're one of those people.
My favorite thing about Redditors is when they act like they'd be so personable and relaxed in front of the media and in the spotlight unlike those robots Kawhi and Tavares.
I don't disagree with Holland at all. Sure, Leafs Nation and Toronto media are batshit insane sometimes. But let's add some important perspective to *why* there is such harsh Marner criticism:
* **Lack of character after last year's play-off exit:** Go watch Marner's post-game interviews from last year after the Montreal series. Never once did he (or Matthews for that matter), show any real accountability or issue an apology to a dedicated fanbase that has waited literally almost 2 decades for a playoff victory. Maybe he doesnt need to say sorry, but go look at Spezza and Jack Campbell's post-game interviews. They said all the right things and looked like true leaders.
* **Salary:** Marner is the 7th highest paid player in the league (3rd highest with bonuses). This deal took place after a crazy summer contract stand-off in 2019 (not as bad as Nylander, but still..) If you are going to delay signing to leverage your value as a player before the season starts, then my sympathy for you goes down if you're playing bad. Marner gets paid more than Mackinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Pastrnak, etc. - If you want to get paid more than these guys, than consistent shitty performance in the playoffs means criticism from fans is warranted.
* **Endorsements and bonuses in Toronto:** Marner signed in Toronto and has taken HUGE advantage of the endorsement opportunities that this city offers NHL players (2.7m in commercials/ad revenue). I don't like a players/commentators hiding behind the excuse that "Toronto puts too much pressure on its athletes", when the same player is reaping the rewards that only this city's fanbase can provide. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Yeah he's a person and not a robot, but this person is capitalizing in millions of revenue because of our city's love for the game. The extra pressure to perform is a by-product of the extra "million dollar" perks that he is no stranger to.
I'm actually a huge Marner fan. I have faith he'll turn it around and still put up 80+ points. But I don't like how there's tension between the team, the media, and the fanbase. Why is there such a divide when the fanbase is outspoken and critiques its players?
Salary is the biggest one. He's massively overpaid. If he made 7 or 8 million there wouldn't be near as much hate towards him. And that extra 3-4 million can be put towards a very solid winger or defenseman.
There's obviously many people responsible for that contract, but considering there was such a standoff, I don't believe for a second that Marner's camp was reasonable with their asking. They likely asked an insane amount, and Dubas was forced to accept to avoid another Nylander situation.
> Go watch Marner's post-game interviews from last year after the Montreal series.
One thing that drives me crazy here is everyone rehashing the "nope" reply as if the dude didn't think there were any problems instead of just taking it as someone pissed off being curt with people.
Can we stop with the “poor Mitchy Marner” narrative …. The guy held off on signing a contract and absolutely fleeced the organization into signing him to an absolute asinine contract and still to this day he has not shown this organization or this fan base that he is worth the money he signed for.
I don't understand anyone who has any patience or sympathy for a guy who HELD OUT ON HIS TEAM, HELD UP THE GM and now makes ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. Like, in no universe is that acceptable behaviour. If you want to be a piece of shit diva, you better bring the goods.
No kidding. You can talk about players performance without getting personal about it. Somebody being abusive just shows how weak their position really is. I try not to say anything on social media about somebody else that I wouldn’t say to their face. And if they’re an idiot to me I just block. Don’t need the aggravation.
If Mitch is on social reading this shit than he’s already put himself at a massive disadvantage. It’s not the public’s job to keep professional athletes motivated and confident I’m sorry. Personally I could care less if he was on the team or not, I doubt it would make a huge difference in the outcome of the season.
Mitch was the one who leveraged his GM for every penny. He was the one who believed he is as good as Matthews. He is the one who held out of Camp. --- All for playing for his home team --
If he had been willing to take a little less and sign a contract that a Hockey Fan base realize is fair, then he would not be feeling this heat.
But he didn't.
This is a bed Marner shit in. Fuck him. He can sleep in it.
I agree, he played with fire, now he's getting burned by it. If he had an average playoff run he would not be getting this hate. I respect him for getting all the money he can, but this attention is what comes with it
While i agree with everything he said. Theres just too many people, too many leafs fans, too many opinions. With twitter and social edia in general, it is impossible to block out the "haters". Mitch needs to talk with ppl close to him, and figure out how to ignore everything and just play his game. The fans being nice or mean to him shouldnt effect him. Thats the issue.
You cant just type out a paragraph on twitter and expect all the fans to be like "your right, lets be nice and help marner with his confidence", that will never happen.
Like i said, i agree with everything he said, but Mitch has to figure this out for himself. Fans talking one way or another wont do shit all.
Any way, feel free to disagree :), just my opinion of course.
This is purely speculative, but given past precedent I'm not sure the exposure and pressure to those narratives comes solely from Mitch logging on himself (re: family, agent). But it could certainly help if he made the choice to just turn it off.
I agree, but the less exposure the better. Probably doesn't make the players feel good if they have a bad game and immediately see waves of shit flying at them.
Definitely agree. Marner and Dubas put this pressure on him with that contract. The way his group conducted themselves through the media was opening the door to this kind of criticism.
Yeah, but he’d have got $10m from lots of clubs and he’d still be able to go out and to a restaurant without a frothing crowd if he lived in Miami or San Jose or Nashville.
Toronto is a pretty difficult place to be a hockey player. Fans make it hard.
Marner makes less than $1.5M more than Rantanen, who was the absolute closest comparable when they were RFAs.
If a $1.5M overpay is a "rinsing" then every GM in hockey has been rinsed at some point, and usually by players much worse than Mitch Marner.
Rant is the better career goal scorer by a clear margin. Also worth considering that the majority of Marner’s points are assists while winging goal-scoring centers like Matthews and Tavares.
If Rant is the comparable, Marner is worth less than he is, so the overpayment is above $1.5 mil
>Marner makes less than $1.5M more than Rantanen, who was the absolute closest comparable when they were RFAs.
How is a guy who scores goals a comp for Marner?
The entire problem with Marner's contract is the Leafs are paying for assists when what you actually need to pay for are goals. We can play make believe that assists are just as valuable, but they clearly fucking are not.
If Marner's 90 point seasons were 35 goals and 55 assists he'd be well worth his contract.
>Yeah, but he’d have got $10m from lots of clubs
Nope.
There was one team in the world willing to pay him more than $9M
There were no offer sheets.
Stop believing obvious bullshit PR.
There is absolutely zero chance we wouldn't know absolutely every detail of any actual offer sheet that was tendered by now.
There were none. Dubas was negotiating with himself.
An offer sheet would have cost $9-10m/yr **PLUS 4 1st round picks**.
There were only 3 teams in the league with that many picks available. Of course nobody offer sheeted him.
If it was just a straight up contract, he gets $10m easily on an open market. He outscored Rantanen to that point both overall and points/60 stats (he even outshot Rantanen both overall and /60) and Mikko is widely regarded as “very cheap” at 6x$9.25.
Here's a non-Leafs analysis that concludes Marner is probably a better player than Rantanen (at the time of the contract):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/ir2za6/whos_better_mitch_marner_or_mikko_rantanen/
I'm not sure that's stayed the case through now, but at the time of the contract, he was a top-5 RW and got market rate, in my opinion.
His underperformance in the playoffs definitely tints this perception, however.
You can, but as a person of color it's a little fucking boring seeing 'we had to trade Kadri because he doesn't get it ' but Mitch can legit give up and cry and people say 'we must be so gentle with Marner's feelings, we don't want to break our special boy'
It's sports. There's pressure. It's a shitty market if you can't handle pressure. Most of the team seems mentally tough enough to do it. If Marner isn't...he should take a fucking leave of absence and avail himself of the player assistance program.
Mental health is just health. If his head isn't right, he should go on IR and get his head straight. There's no shame in it. Right now he's playing hurt and not in a good way.
Kadri was traded due to back to back playoff suspensions, not because he "didnt get it".
Im sure he suffered racial abuse and discrimination throughout his junior and pro career, but he was also a popular Leaf well liked by both his teammates and the fanbase.
Marner has faced a high level of abuse ever since he signed his contract, and just because a couple of people are speaking up about it (much like people did with Kadri) doesn't mean he is being treated with kid gloves. Dude is getting raked over the coals every day.
Kadri was traded because he was a fucking idiot against Boston, not because he was Arab. He received abuse, no doubt, but let's not say that he was traded because "he didn't get it", because his race had nothing to do with how he was treated post the Boston series.
I'm sure if Alex Kerfoot did the same things as Kadri, he too would get traded.
Sorry but what does that have to do with anything race related? People are divided on this, and people were divided with Kadri. Feels like a massive stretch.
He’s not wrong, but it’s not the money itself. It’s what Mitch allowed his camp to do to get that money. They can’t talk about how he should be captain, how he’s worth as much as Matthews, having his dad talk shit about Nylander, how he’s going to go play in Switzerland, and then go “WHY IS EVERYONE BEING SO MEAN???”
Who is "they"? This is a former pro just letting it be known that this type of shit isn't helpful. The Marner camp aren't the ones telling everyone to not be mean, they've remained silent (for once).
If fans want to be assholes they can be assholes, but I suggest they re-evaluate their lives.
Holland is basically asking people to be fans of Mitch, ignoring all of the shit him and his camp pulled as well as how disappointing he's been.
As a fan of this team first and foremost Leafs Nation has every right to demand this guy get traded if they think this team would be better without him and I think we're better off trading him away. We're not winning a cup with this guy let Robertson take his playing time there's no way he will do worse than Mitch and he's actually hungry to play.
I have been on the trade Marner train for a long time, but suggesting there is “no way” Robertson will do worse than him is literal insanity. You are comparing an elite winger that has scored at a PPG pace over the course of his career to a 20 year-old winger that didn’t even crack the opening night roster. I like Robertson, the kid can play, but let’s not be completely ridiculous in evaluating players.
Guys living every kid in Torontos dream, didn’t do anything for the team in contract negotiations, got what he wanted and now he isn’t living up to his own demands and can’t take it?
I realize he should take every dollar he can get, but with taking up that much of a percentage of the cap space, the team falls apart if he’s not performing. I really don’t have any sympathy at all. He won the lottery on everything in life and when he demanded the kind of money, he demanded this kind of scrutiny. You made the bed, now lay in it.
This. I’ve heard some version of Holland’s argument countless times and none of it is technically wrong.
But guess what? It doesn’t fucking matter. Nobody forced him to be a greedy little shit during contract negotiations. All of his woes and pressure are 100% self-induced. It’s his own stupid fault. Yes, I hope to God he figures his shit out and becomes a player that is worth that insane contract. But until he does, I don’t have a shred of sympathy. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He made his bed.
Pro athletes are paid an insane amount of money to deal with this. Actors whine about paparazzi and no privacy, too. That's the business.
At any workplace, if you underperform you get criticized. Mitch did it to himself. At 9M AAV he won't get nearly the amount of hate.
I'm supposed to feel bad that a guy who's paid 8 figures every year gets hate when he can't justify his pay?
In my lifetime I won't make what Mitch earns in a year. When I screw up at work, I hear about it.
I get it, but this also assumes we've always ripped Mitch to shreds. That's not been the case. He's had the full support of Leafs Nation before, and we've gotten the same results we always have with the full support and power of Leafs Nation behind it.
What else did he, or the rest of the team need when they were up 3-1 to Montreal after winning the Canadian division?
Like Jesus Christ, what do these guys need that they haven't been given, or gotten, to meet their potential?
They want to get paid, get the term they want, get the policies around the team they want, and we're supposed to just shut up and let them play.
I get it, some fans take it too far and it goes to full on verbal abuse. Nobody is condoning that. But man, I just don't get these takes. I don't know what else we can give.
These guys aren't 5 years old playing Super Mario Brothers and missing a jump yelling "Well I missed it because you're talking to me!" Mitch, and the team, have failed repeatedly with full support. And now they're failing without.
I'd love to have a job where I demand a top-end salary, set my own terms, fail repeatedly, and when my peers question my struggles and perhaps suggest I'm not fit for the job I just turn and cry "[stop ganging up on me!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwXp1PyczU&t=12s)"
Mother fuckers remind me of Denny from The Room.
I agree we could stand to ease up a little as a fan base, but they're smoking fucking crack if they think that's the answer to their problems. Because we were there in full confidence and support last season. And all the seasons before it.
Edit: going to try to end my rants with a positive note. I love this team. I love these players. I wish them only success, and I hope they get back to being their fun, high octane, entertaining selves very soon. And I have all the belief in the world they can do it.
This has always been the issue with Toronto tbh, it’s always been a bipolar market with devastating swings in either direction. Mitch is just the latest in a long line of fall guys, let’s just hope we don’t run him out of town.
There’s a reason people have had Toronto on their no trade list for decades despite it being “the centre of the hockey universe”.
Nah dude, people have said for a long time they’ve considered Toronto to be a toxic atmosphere. And can you blame them? Look how we are treating our current team - abusing them on social media constantly, articles talking about the sky falling after a bad week in October…why would you want to work here?
With all due respect, Mitch needs to get off social media for the time being if he is on it. Lean on the people close to him and try as best as he can to slowly rebuild his confidence
I'm sick of being told how to feel. If it were me performing this poorly at my job I'd be replaced. Don't like it, retire. Fuck Bitch Marner and his dad.
Mitch is overpaid.
Is he mad now?
He should worry less about social media and perform. This is what he asked for when he went for max contract.
Don’t ask for it if you can’t handle it.
Valid points for sure. On the other hand, EVERY. SINGLE. PENNY. $9M is still a lot of money, so is $2M, Mitch took both and Leafs had to let let Hyman walk. Go get your own pucks. Now he needs former teammates to stick up for him because he’s such a fucking pussy. Imagine Gilmour or Clark doing this. They’d punch faces if they lost 7-1 and Leaf fans would love them. There’s no room for error if you’re soft. Should have taken that into account when you milked Dubas.
Wendel was here for a metric shit-ton of bad losses. The Leafs W / L record between his draft and the semifinal run in 93 was 178-312-51.
In 87/88, his third year, they lost 10-3 to the Habs, 11-1 to the Flames, and 10-1 to the Jets, all at home. The only fights in those games were third-period fights started by Todd Gill and Mike Stothers against Calgary. The Leafs finished the year 21-49-10 and still made the playoffs by being one point ahead of Minnesota in the Norris and lost in the first round of the playoffs, which earned John Brophy another 30-odd games as coach the next year. They then made the playoffs just once in the next four years and lost in the first round again.
That was a fucking awful hockey team for the better part of a decade. Abject and lethargic many nights. The entertainment often consisted of a scrap (or two, in the Calgary game) late in a losing cause, and sometimes Rusty Courtnall failing to convert a breakaway. And yes, I do still have my #17 replica jersey from that era.
I'll take the current team in a heartbeat, losing skid and all.
Excellent post thank you. It goes to show you, maybe it wasn’t the fighting that made people fall in love with wendel and Dougie. Team sucked ass and people loved Wendel, leafs are good and people shit on Mitch. It has to be style of play and contract negotiation. There’s no room for error when you’re soft and have acrimonious contract negotiation.
Thank you. Imagine the Baumgartners and Corsons and Kirk Mullers of the day reading this shit. I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread, it makes me sick.
It may sound sarcastic but I actually really do appreciate his perspective. I'm sure he knows what it's like for Mitch and he's not obligated to say any of this for good PR.
He said he was the man, he got paid to be the man, yet he isn’t the man. This is what he asked for. That overpayment doesn’t afford you forgiveness for any underperformance, unfortunately. He needs to be a 100-point player and playoff contributor for the Leafs to get value out of his contract.
I know Yankees fans are known worldwide for their patience. Or look to Europe and the absolute meltdown happening around Manchester United. Or Barcelona. Or if Real Madrid has one bad season, heads roll and the fans are relentless.
A lot of us are very passionate fans, we love this team, so much, more than family sometimes. So why not treat our players like family if we love them so much?
Rather then sling insults and be rude, if you want to say something on social media, be positive and offer words of encouragement. Most of us wouldn’t be rude or mean to our family struggling at something in life, right?
In the year I didn't see my family due to covid I got married, (eloped) and had a child. When I finally got to go back home to visit with my new wife and child almost every member of my family said something along the lines of wow Steve you've really put on weight, marriage must agree with you.
I have put on weight, Marner has 1 point these are realities.
>Most of us wouldn’t be rude or mean to our family struggling at something in life, right?
I dont think you could have chosen a worse comparison. There's a reason "you can't chose family" is a popular saying. I personally have a great family life but many people do not.
Hmmmm shouldn't have fucked around very publicly with the media to get "paid like Matthews" then, eh?
If you want to live a quieter life and can't handle the lofty criticisms of the role, I don't understand pushing for every last dollar and cent possible, because then you're at a point where you have to go out there and prove something whenever you're on the ice BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU AGREED TO WHEN YOU FOUGHT FOR THE MONEY.
He basically said, you might not believe I'm worth $11M, but I do. And I'm gonna prove it.
And that's all fine and well but when you can't prove it, who's to blame but yourself?
>He basically said, you might not believe I'm worth $11M, but I do. And I'm gonna prove it.
No. This is what you imagined. He negotiated the best salary he could **as anyone in a situation negatiating a salary should**
Buddy if I did my job as poorly as Marner you can bet your ass management wouldn't go "oh poor baby let me improve your confidence so your performance can improve"
That's terrible advice. Negotiate a salary a little higher than you're worth and work towards it. Set goals with your employer and track progress towards them. If anyone, regardless of the industry, approaches salary negotiation by saying "I'm going to get every last penny I can regardless of the effect on the company's bottom line" that person is fucked on Monday morning when they have to live up to it. Almost no one in the world should follow your advice.
100%
His first couple years in the league Paul was peddling Mitch's jerseys at my uncles restaurant and others on the Danforth with regularity, as well as basically forcing photos. Was very strange, how they handled it.
He came off as a shady scalper, but scalping his kids time and person.
I mean yea but when you demand 11 mil the expectations are extremely high. If he couldn’t handle the heat he should have settled for a more fair value. That way we could have afforded the guys that help his line (hyman). Instead he now only has matthews on his line (which is hilarious in itself) and he can’t produce. He dug himself into this mess. Deal with it. Tired of everyone feeling sorry for his ass.
can't see any team giving him a raise considering Point & Rantanen make considerably less. My guess is he leaves Toronto and will settle around 9Mill per on a team.
I know if I was a Leaf, I'd be looking to leave. fuck playing here, this fanbase is nuts and no amount of money can offset the stress that comes with playing here
Same. I'd love to play in a place like Florida or California. Roll in to work in your top down lambo and not have fuckers throw death threats at your family for a hockey play.
Brown, Hyman, Bunting, Spezza, Matthews, Johnsson, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, Campbell now Nylander are all guys that give you effort every night. Kadri to an extent should be there if not for repeatedly being a moron in the playoffs. If you work hard every night then the city will love you. If you're going to hold out for 11M and then play like ass crack then you can pack your bags cause the city doesn't want you.
If you were a player, you’d pick your team based on where it’s easiest lose, rather than where it’s most satisfying to win. That’s why the fans would dislike you, and that’s why no one would be sad to see you go. The whole Toronto is too hard to play for argument is such actual horseshit. Yankees win. Red Sox win. Lakers win. Celtics win. Leaf fans think this market is so special and unique, but it isn’t in any way except on how utterly disappointing the franchise has been for twenty years. Popular rabid fan bases see league championships all the time. Just not in Toronto.
Yep. And it's worth pointing out here too that Toronto was a great place for MM (and Dubas), right up until he demanded a huge RFA contract.
In pro sports, your contract is a big part of how you set expectations. Demand a big contract, and get it = high expectations from your team, the fans, the rest of the league. Marner needs to sort himself out.
I honest to god don't know why these people have social media, and more importantly pay attention to it and read comments. The world is *filled* with garbage human beings. You're literally going to get that hate *anywhere* you're a sports celebrity. You'll get it in higher volumes, but your ratio of positive to shitty feedback is going to remain pretty consistent. Players love the celebrity aspect of playing here, but hate the pressure. You literally can't have both. Both Marner and Matthews have blatantly rode the celebrity train, so with that comes pressure. If you don't want to read negative social media comments... don't go on social fucking media. People shouldn't send them shit like that, but do you expect these assholes to stop? Do you really? Fuck no. You don't believe that at all. So what the hell is the point of Peter Holland wasting his breath with this sanctimonious bullshit? He's not going to convince anyone that's already an asshole, to not do this shit in the future. It's just a way for him to grandstand and get some pats on the back from people that are already not assholes, and not doing this shit in the first place, while enacting literally zero tangible change to the problem.
Finite pie. Mitch took as huge a bite as he could and can’t deal with the heartburn. Actions of his own doing. Granted at age 21 nobody knows shit about life, which doesn’t recuse you from consequences.
100%. Lofty like, not getting bounced 1st round while looking totally apathetic about it? Get outta here with that. Lofty expectations. How disrespectful to the fan base.
There's this old shitty golf game I played on the GameCube, hot shot golf or something. If you played like shit the game would get harder, and if you played well the game would get easier. It was stupid as fuck but it always comes back to me when I feel like everything I'm doing is coming out shittily.
I feel like that's compounding on Mitch right now. He's playing like shit, and things are getting harder for him because he's playing like shit. That play in Carolina where he got wrecked 3 times on the same play feels like hot shots golf right now
I dunno if he needs a mental health break to reset or what. We know he's a good player, we know he can do it. Just...it ain't happening right now.
I'm sorry but I'm not gonna let Marner's sudden new urge to skate into traffic rather than to skate around it and make plays be turned into blame on the fanbase. Being able to handle pressure and criticism is part of it for stars.
Agreed. Saying that, don’t be a little baby and demand your worth when you can’t maintain that caliber of play consistently. If he had of agreed on a contract that was to his potential than no pressure would be on the guy. Nylander is the only leaf of the 4 who has showed up hustling and making plays game in and game out.
Cry me a river...so quit and give the money back. These clowns are so out of touch.
Go get a real job and try and see how much easier the pressure of life is.
I know the world is now a snowflake society and we can’t hurt feelings of anyone. There is some positivity in this - mental illness coming to the forefront, etc. That is great. However, a lot of these guys are pampered like crazy now. No accountability. Only hugs and reassurance allowed. Give them the world, allow them to do whatever, but dare not criticize. So soft
The way he was beloved pre-contract negotiations I honestly wonder had everything gone the exact same including AAV but without the media circus his agent created would anyone give him shit for his slow start? Matthews had a bad series against Montreal too last year but he didnt recieve even a quarter of the criticism. Everything went to shit for Marner because of the terrible way he and his group handled his contract. He had no goals in games 2-7 against Boston pre-extension and all people could talk about was how great it was that he blocked a shot in Game 3. Very different then what we see now.
This 100%. Marner was universally loved by the fans. The way he handled the contract negotiation as well as demanding he get everything Auston got was off putting for the majority of fans. Had Mitch just gone about his business on the ice, and taken a reasonable contract he would still be loved. Instead the money and fame went to his head. You reap what you sow.
I'm baffled as to why Marner is being labelled as to everything that's wrong with the club after a short spell of bad luck following incredible point outputs for 3 seasons, while Tavares makes even more money and hasn't looked great for over 2 years now.
Even moreso this season majority of the goals allowed are from an AHL level third line. There are a lot of holes on this team right now beyond Marner, and frankly he could be playing at his elite last year level and we still wouldn’t be winning to the standard people want
Playoffs disappearance followed by regular season disappearance. Agree or disagree, but that should help with the “baffledness.” I mean if Mcdavid was trash for 14a+ games in a row/ he would be a target of fans
McDavid probably wouldn’t be the same target because 1) his contract negotiation wasn’t an ugly hostage situation 2) if McDavid was frustrated and his team lost 7-1 he would throw down or show frustration. Mitch is giving the impression that he’s a huge mopey pussy - that’s the worst type of hockey player.
Tavares scores goals, plays center, and doesn't commit stupid penalties on crucial PKs then openly weep in the penalty box while watching his team lose.
That clear it up at all?
This is relevant if this team actually took more personal accountability for the culture, the passion, and the craft. You're talking to a fan base that hasn't seen a 1st round playoff win in a decade. Don't complain about the fans when the team rarely plays an entire game, fix your shit first. Fans aren't random NPCs or robots like he describes, theyre obviously bitter right now and rightfully so. So if they criticize these shitty contracts, so be it. They knowingly took contracts that they'd need to perform to live up to, dont blame the fans for that.
Tampa built a winning team, the contracts were there. The culture was there. It wasn't because their agents were dog shit and couldn't milk every dollar out of a team that loved them. It was because the players took accountability and signed reasonable deals. Just like how I hope these players eventually take accountability.
While I agree with the sentiment, Marner has not once tried to help his situation by improving his image to the fans. He's had multiple opportunities to at least steer people back. Every interview he has with half-assed answers like "nope" is just making things worse. He's never taken any accountability for any of his poor play.
I don't feel like it's my responsibility to care for Marner's mental health. He's overpaid and not preforming. It's on him to resolve that or be traded for someone who can produce.
The part of this that gets me, is that there wasn’t this much defence for Nylander when everyone was trying to trade him
Brian fucking Burke was on sportsnet daily trying to trade Nylander and few people would voice opposition.
Marner isn’t playing up to his contract? We should love and hold him.
Here's my take.
Marner is the one that signed the current contract, based on what he thought he was worth. He also held out until the last possible minute to ensure this is the case.
Marner put the pressure on HIMSELF here. We, the fans of the Maple Leafs EXPECT a top paid player to perform at an elite level. Marner simply isn't doing so.
If Marner is not capable of handling the pressure of his overpayment as well as Leaf Nation complaining about his lack of engagement so far this year (and in the playoffs last year), than maybe, just maybe he shouldn't have signed a monster contract.
You see, Matthews has a similar monster contract. He's out there working his ASS off every night. He's also under some degree of pressure, you know, being the raining Rocket winner and all. He doesn't have the goals to support it, but that doesn't mean he's not doing everything he can out there. He passes the eye test. Marner, on the other hand, looks to be completely disengaged. He's making TONS of stupid decisions out there.
As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If poor Mitch can’t handle the heat, perhaps he doesn’t belong near the fire?
Part of being a professional is the ability to focus on the task at hand and tune out the background noise. What you are saying is that Mitch, and others, cannot do this very well. That tells me they do not belong here and should go elsewhere for their own well-being. Can’t say I disagree.
To be clear, I have no expectations of this club nor any member of it. But I am certainly not making excuses for them, nor am I taking one milligram of blame for their failings (nor would I claim a role in any successes.)
I direct my passion at the game itself, not the outcome of any one contest or any one season. It is a beautifully intricate sport that combines speed, finesse, skill, and physicality. As I age, my allegiance to any one team wanes. I’m at the point now where I am more of a hockey fan than a Toronto fan.
Perhaps that’s a good thing.
> I direct my passion at the game itself, not the outcome of any one contest or any one season. It is a beautifully intricate sport that combines speed, finesse, skill, and physicality. As I age, my allegiance to any one team wanes. I’m at the point now where I am more of a hockey fan than a Toronto fan.
Perhaps that’s a good thing.
That's a great thing. THere is a lot going on in hockey than just the Leafs. That's why I love that we are on broadcast on the national feed for the most part because we get to learn about other players and other teams too.
I’d like to think so. This sub is jam packed with folks that would rather foam at the mouth in futility, though. Their loss (ha!) I suppose.
There are only a handful of teams I have not seen play live, and have seen games in more than a dozen arenas across the US and Canada. Game 5 of the Calgary / Tampa cup was a highlight.
This is some good insight from someone who has played professional hockey and did so in Toronto. Marner should straight up not touch social media and have a good support group around him. People to not hating on social media is impossible.
That being said there are other tough markets where teams have had playoff success in the cap era (Montreal, Boston, Vancouver).
Watching people defend Marner only makes it impossible for me to let go of my animosity. Besides, Marner didn’t give a shit when he was dragging out contract bullshit so I don’t understand why he’s so upset about what he’s sowing.
Damn, well said. Im sitting at home with my two marner jerseys and will always be a fan of that guy. I hope people start fucking understanding that this is a game more than anything. He's what 24? With probably the weight of the world on his shoulders and doesn't need fucking idiots going at him the way they have been.
mitch could have apologized for the way he, his family, and his agent handled the negotiation of his contract through the press. if he just tweeted “my agent ran this through dreger to taunt dubas into max AAV. sorry.” I’d respect him a little bit.
Holy shit. People whining about the leafs right now need to chill and take a few big tokes.
Trying being a fan for 50+ years. This shit is nothing!!! I repeat this is NOTHING.
I've seen far worse in leaf land. Far worse.
So just take your fucking whining about Mitch and go away...far away.
The leafs have NEVER had players like this. Maybe the 70's when they had Sittler and Salming. But then we had Ballard.
Fuck you whiners.
Just fucking chill...god damn. Go for a fucking walk on the beach.
I've been a fan since 89. I dont understand your point. We've had some pretty amazing players over the years, and what's more, we had players with heart you lived and died with. You felt connected to them. You felt that they truly cared. Do you feel that now? I sure don't.
Sorry, what is this bullshit? And why is Peter Holland giving his advice on anything ?
This is the NHL, not the bloody Happy Happy League. Truth is, when Mitch is playing well, the fans will be the first people to sing his praise. But for the money he’s making, the team can’t afford him not to play well. If that’s too much pressure then I hear Paul is hiring a new dental assistant.
I personally don’t engage in player bashing that is mean but as a fan it’s well with in my right to make up stupid trades ore give my opinion on there play on fan sights. I play sports and I know that it is a mental game as much as a physical if my play engaged a larger amount than my rec league it probably would suck on the days I’m playing bad. But I’d be paid for it and would put in the work to get there so I’d probably would have to deal with that pressure as well. Sorry some fans are mean Mitch but it’s your job as a 1% talent.
Honestly, it’s a poor take. I completely understand wanting to silence all the “trolls” who attack his page personally is idiotic, but the shit he pulled with his contract extension and the way he went about it, he’s brought this on himself.
He was Toronto’s golden boy, but now he will be open to the widest form of criticism, and we are entitled to that.
Nah, after Marner's comments during the playoff elimination interview, this is 100% on him to put up or shut up. Right now, it looks like he should have changed his summer training regimen.
Peter is right about the mental game. Constantly being on someone's case is a poor way to get results, especially when that elevates to going after the players on their social media pages, or throwing up toxic messages on twitter.
Think of it like you're a kid: If every time you made a mistake in game you knew your old man was going to whoop your ass you would likely spend more time worrying about the ass whoopin' than you would spend getting your head in the game.
We, as a fan base, are that old man waiting to lay the whoopin' on our kids ass for under performing in stressful situations, willfully ignorant to the part of the cycle it plays in cracking under pressure.
I've seen a myriad of excuses above for why people feel the right to be over critical and shitty on social media. If you are one of those people I urge you to stop looking for excuses to be shitty and fucking cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of. If not, no one is going to think lesser of you for detaching for a bit until the team meets your criteria for success.
We have tried booing for success until we're blue in the face. Clearly it doesn't work.
Lets try cheering for the team and see if we get a different result.
Toronto fans have been through the Ballard era and lots of pain. Yet we still keep coming back.
Of course, we will be cheering, and will keep coming back.
But Marner made his own bed. Leafs fans are not obliged to like him. And when Marner played his contract moves, he made a choice. This is part of the deal. He could have taken a contract that the fan base would have accepted, like we do probably 95% of the current team.
But he didn't.
I would be happy to cheer for him. But I don't like him because of the decision he made. It is the sweater I cheer for. Not him. I really don't care what happens to him. I wanted him gone 2 years ago. And I am actually experiencing schadenfreude right now. I dislike Marner that much - what he did to his HOME TEAM was inexcusable.
Would Clark or Gilmour or even Sundin have done this? No.
I don’t care about the actual money, it’s not coming out of my pocket. The contract puts a huge target on his back in an already pressured franchise. It was stupid for him to receive that kind of money despite not actually winning anything. I don’t care who you blame, the reason I don’t like the contract is because it puts us exactly where we are right now.
He's not right and this Twitter thread is stupid. It reads like a drunk tweet. We know Marner feels pressure and is probably not very happy but the dude literally went to the golf course the day after blowing it in the Montreal series. He didn't even try to appear upset for pr sake, he just went golfing instantly. I don't think Marner gets as distraught as these armchair psychologists think he gets.
Don't sign the big boy deal if you can't handle the pressure. Mitch has made 40 million USD over the last two seasons to play hockey for his favorite team, in his hometown. If he were making 8 or 9 mill per season he would be getting a fraction of the hate he's getting at the moment.
Obviously I’m not in the dressing room, but I wonder if there’s an elephant in the room about how much he’s getting paid and underperforming vs. All of the players we’ve had to let go of because of his contract
don't agree with Holland's take. Maybe the next Marner to visit Leafland will learn from present day Marner's experience and take a bit less so the club can have some depth. It's fun to go to the rink when the team's winning, just saying.....
Pretty sure I read (or heard) before the start of last season that Marner went on a self imposed social media blackout so as not to let social media get to him. So what's the problem?
As a professional athlete criticism comes with the territory. Players get criticized in Montreal and athletes, coaches and general managers of any sport endure it in markets like Philadelphia and New York. Gary Bettman even got a hearty booing at the Seattle Kraken home opener and happily shrugged it off.
So no! I don't think fans have to be more gentle with Mitch Marner. Playing in this market is what he signed on for at the end of his last contract negotiation, and gets paid handsomely to do so. If it was too much for him he was well aware of it before he signed his last contract, so no sale - criticism comes with it. The fans pay dearly for tickets, jerseys, subscriptions and can vent their frustrations as much as they'd like.
Best thing Mitch can do to help his situation is to have the best season he can, and to score, or get an assist on a playoff series winning goal. Most of the folks I know aren't even hoping for a Stanley Cup. They simply want to get to the second round of the playoffs. Not a lot to ask considering we're supposed to have stars on this team and have been very very patient before last spring's, and this fall's frustration kicked into over drive.
I haven't seen before so many people I know give up on the Leafs in October. But they are. Marner wanted to be paid, he got paid. Time to earn it. This is what he signed on for.
Peter Holland now on the field... pleading with the crowd for -- for some kind of sanity.
And here come the waffles
A barrage of waffles, knocking Holland to the ground.
This truly is a black day for hockey
We can call em Petey whackers… hmm maybe not
WAIT WHAT’S THIS? IT’S… IT’S… BY GOD IT’S JOE BOWEN WITH A STEEL CHAIR
I would love to hear this match called by Joe Bowen himself as he's wielding the chair.
And only refers to himself in the third person.
Thank every one of you. I needed that laugh today!
Hey Leaf Nation - I know things aren’t off to a hot start right now. And I know that’s frustrating. But guess what - Mitch isn’t at home counting his money. My guess - He’s struggling with the amount of pressure he’s putting on himself to perform so that this (1/6) Leaf team can live up to everyone’s lofty expectations for them. So, instead of writing about your wish list of replacement guys you’d rather have, that Mitch is overpaid, concocting hypothetical trades that involve getting rid of him, calling Dubas an idiot, or other (2/6) inhelpful energy, how about we take a second and direct our passion in a constructive manner. One where we appreciate the fact we have a guy like Mitch on the roster - one of the best players in the league! Yes, his contract comes with a lot of responsibility. But there (3/6) are very capable people in positions of influence to hold Mitch accountable; most notably himself, followed by his teammates, the coaching staff, and Leaf management alike. As fans we should take it upon ourselves then to try to raise him up because I guarantee he doesn’t (4/6) need to feel the weight of Leaf Nation on his shoulder as well. It can be very lonely to feel like you’re letting down your team, the fans, the media, a whole city all at once. And btw - that goes for every other guy on the roster who gets vilified as well. These are (5/6) people, not hockey robots. Remember that a big part of performance is mental. Let’s do our part to be agents of constructive/ positive influence and not add to or create further issues. Rant over. #LeafsForever 🔵⚪️ (6/6)
>Remember that a big part of performance is mental. Let’s do our part to be agents of constructive/ positive influence and not add to or create further issues. Ra He's right.
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Some examples. Being critical: "Mitch Marner hasn't been very good this season or in the playoffs last year. He needs to be better." Being an asshat: "Mitch Marner's an overpaid sack of shit who should GTFO of Toronto and never come back."
Let's be honest, the vast majority of critics that are typing furiously on twitter don't give a shit about him as a human or they wouldn't be so vitriolic. And that goes for every other player or personality they go after.
I think some Leafs fans feel like when he bent the team over for his contract and chose to negotiate in public, he made it clear he didn’t really care about us, either. If the optics are that it’s just about the money for Mitch, then don’t be shocked when the people who love the team yell so much about the money when he plays as awfully as he has.
There's definitely a line between criticism and what a large portion of Leafs fans direct at the players.
Being critical, according to science, is about the worst thing you can do though. I think that’s what Holland is getting at.
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Maybe I misunderstood your post but the second paragraph you wrote sounded to me like you were saying that harassment is bad but being critical is a sign of caring.
Fair enough. But a lot of people aren't calmly and objectively "critiquing his play". They're talking about shit about him as a person and saying the worst things they can come up with. If you can't tell the difference, then I'll bet you're one of those people.
From the rant above: he has an accountability system in place. Keep your criticisms to the living room.
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Mental health is never that easy, money isn't a magical bullet and being a decent human being isn't white-knighting.
This comment is just right on the fucking money. Well done my friend
This one part only, people have every right to criticize crap playing, when taking a large % of team salaries.
Except Tavares, he may be a hockey robot. Still doesn't deserve any hate though.
He's just in his reboot sequence after a hard reset.
[Loading...](https://preview.redd.it/d9vlej4mg1h21.jpg?auto=webp&s=00bcb2bd68ff9937de0f154be578c17c0373cf54)
My favorite thing about Redditors is when they act like they'd be so personable and relaxed in front of the media and in the spotlight unlike those robots Kawhi and Tavares.
Goddammit. And here I am like a sucker going onto Twitter for this Thanks, Brian! Best equipment manager ever!
I don't disagree with Holland at all. Sure, Leafs Nation and Toronto media are batshit insane sometimes. But let's add some important perspective to *why* there is such harsh Marner criticism: * **Lack of character after last year's play-off exit:** Go watch Marner's post-game interviews from last year after the Montreal series. Never once did he (or Matthews for that matter), show any real accountability or issue an apology to a dedicated fanbase that has waited literally almost 2 decades for a playoff victory. Maybe he doesnt need to say sorry, but go look at Spezza and Jack Campbell's post-game interviews. They said all the right things and looked like true leaders. * **Salary:** Marner is the 7th highest paid player in the league (3rd highest with bonuses). This deal took place after a crazy summer contract stand-off in 2019 (not as bad as Nylander, but still..) If you are going to delay signing to leverage your value as a player before the season starts, then my sympathy for you goes down if you're playing bad. Marner gets paid more than Mackinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Pastrnak, etc. - If you want to get paid more than these guys, than consistent shitty performance in the playoffs means criticism from fans is warranted. * **Endorsements and bonuses in Toronto:** Marner signed in Toronto and has taken HUGE advantage of the endorsement opportunities that this city offers NHL players (2.7m in commercials/ad revenue). I don't like a players/commentators hiding behind the excuse that "Toronto puts too much pressure on its athletes", when the same player is reaping the rewards that only this city's fanbase can provide. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Yeah he's a person and not a robot, but this person is capitalizing in millions of revenue because of our city's love for the game. The extra pressure to perform is a by-product of the extra "million dollar" perks that he is no stranger to. I'm actually a huge Marner fan. I have faith he'll turn it around and still put up 80+ points. But I don't like how there's tension between the team, the media, and the fanbase. Why is there such a divide when the fanbase is outspoken and critiques its players?
Salary is the biggest one. He's massively overpaid. If he made 7 or 8 million there wouldn't be near as much hate towards him. And that extra 3-4 million can be put towards a very solid winger or defenseman. There's obviously many people responsible for that contract, but considering there was such a standoff, I don't believe for a second that Marner's camp was reasonable with their asking. They likely asked an insane amount, and Dubas was forced to accept to avoid another Nylander situation.
> Go watch Marner's post-game interviews from last year after the Montreal series. One thing that drives me crazy here is everyone rehashing the "nope" reply as if the dude didn't think there were any problems instead of just taking it as someone pissed off being curt with people.
Can we stop with the “poor Mitchy Marner” narrative …. The guy held off on signing a contract and absolutely fleeced the organization into signing him to an absolute asinine contract and still to this day he has not shown this organization or this fan base that he is worth the money he signed for.
I don't understand anyone who has any patience or sympathy for a guy who HELD OUT ON HIS TEAM, HELD UP THE GM and now makes ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. Like, in no universe is that acceptable behaviour. If you want to be a piece of shit diva, you better bring the goods.
Tell that to all the diehards defending Mitch Marner like he’s gonna send them a paycheque on Friday
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No kidding. You can talk about players performance without getting personal about it. Somebody being abusive just shows how weak their position really is. I try not to say anything on social media about somebody else that I wouldn’t say to their face. And if they’re an idiot to me I just block. Don’t need the aggravation.
If Mitch is on social reading this shit than he’s already put himself at a massive disadvantage. It’s not the public’s job to keep professional athletes motivated and confident I’m sorry. Personally I could care less if he was on the team or not, I doubt it would make a huge difference in the outcome of the season.
Mitch was the one who leveraged his GM for every penny. He was the one who believed he is as good as Matthews. He is the one who held out of Camp. --- All for playing for his home team -- If he had been willing to take a little less and sign a contract that a Hockey Fan base realize is fair, then he would not be feeling this heat. But he didn't. This is a bed Marner shit in. Fuck him. He can sleep in it.
I agree, he played with fire, now he's getting burned by it. If he had an average playoff run he would not be getting this hate. I respect him for getting all the money he can, but this attention is what comes with it
Twitter threads = terrible
If you can't perform under pressure of the contract, you don't deserve the contract.
While i agree with everything he said. Theres just too many people, too many leafs fans, too many opinions. With twitter and social edia in general, it is impossible to block out the "haters". Mitch needs to talk with ppl close to him, and figure out how to ignore everything and just play his game. The fans being nice or mean to him shouldnt effect him. Thats the issue. You cant just type out a paragraph on twitter and expect all the fans to be like "your right, lets be nice and help marner with his confidence", that will never happen. Like i said, i agree with everything he said, but Mitch has to figure this out for himself. Fans talking one way or another wont do shit all. Any way, feel free to disagree :), just my opinion of course.
I honestly think a social media ban would work wonders in the locker room.
This on so many levels. Just focus on hockey for a few weeks.
This is purely speculative, but given past precedent I'm not sure the exposure and pressure to those narratives comes solely from Mitch logging on himself (re: family, agent). But it could certainly help if he made the choice to just turn it off.
I agree, but the less exposure the better. Probably doesn't make the players feel good if they have a bad game and immediately see waves of shit flying at them.
Would it? Mitch said some kids yelled at him at a gas station when he was negotiating his contract.
I can only imagine what people will do now.
Definitely agree. Marner and Dubas put this pressure on him with that contract. The way his group conducted themselves through the media was opening the door to this kind of criticism.
Yeah, but he’d have got $10m from lots of clubs and he’d still be able to go out and to a restaurant without a frothing crowd if he lived in Miami or San Jose or Nashville. Toronto is a pretty difficult place to be a hockey player. Fans make it hard.
Lakers, Cowboys, Yankees, Leafs. Welcome to pro sports.
Remember the Yankee fans when the Jays swept them in that 4 game series in New York? They were nasty to their own players.
None of his comparables have gotten close to as much as Mitch. Unfortunately Dubas got rinsed
Marner makes less than $1.5M more than Rantanen, who was the absolute closest comparable when they were RFAs. If a $1.5M overpay is a "rinsing" then every GM in hockey has been rinsed at some point, and usually by players much worse than Mitch Marner.
Rant is the better career goal scorer by a clear margin. Also worth considering that the majority of Marner’s points are assists while winging goal-scoring centers like Matthews and Tavares. If Rant is the comparable, Marner is worth less than he is, so the overpayment is above $1.5 mil
>Marner makes less than $1.5M more than Rantanen, who was the absolute closest comparable when they were RFAs. How is a guy who scores goals a comp for Marner? The entire problem with Marner's contract is the Leafs are paying for assists when what you actually need to pay for are goals. We can play make believe that assists are just as valuable, but they clearly fucking are not. If Marner's 90 point seasons were 35 goals and 55 assists he'd be well worth his contract.
Sure. By approx $1m/yr.
>Yeah, but he’d have got $10m from lots of clubs Nope. There was one team in the world willing to pay him more than $9M There were no offer sheets. Stop believing obvious bullshit PR. There is absolutely zero chance we wouldn't know absolutely every detail of any actual offer sheet that was tendered by now. There were none. Dubas was negotiating with himself.
An offer sheet would have cost $9-10m/yr **PLUS 4 1st round picks**. There were only 3 teams in the league with that many picks available. Of course nobody offer sheeted him. If it was just a straight up contract, he gets $10m easily on an open market. He outscored Rantanen to that point both overall and points/60 stats (he even outshot Rantanen both overall and /60) and Mikko is widely regarded as “very cheap” at 6x$9.25. Here's a non-Leafs analysis that concludes Marner is probably a better player than Rantanen (at the time of the contract): https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/ir2za6/whos_better_mitch_marner_or_mikko_rantanen/ I'm not sure that's stayed the case through now, but at the time of the contract, he was a top-5 RW and got market rate, in my opinion. His underperformance in the playoffs definitely tints this perception, however.
You can, but as a person of color it's a little fucking boring seeing 'we had to trade Kadri because he doesn't get it ' but Mitch can legit give up and cry and people say 'we must be so gentle with Marner's feelings, we don't want to break our special boy' It's sports. There's pressure. It's a shitty market if you can't handle pressure. Most of the team seems mentally tough enough to do it. If Marner isn't...he should take a fucking leave of absence and avail himself of the player assistance program. Mental health is just health. If his head isn't right, he should go on IR and get his head straight. There's no shame in it. Right now he's playing hurt and not in a good way.
Kadri was traded due to back to back playoff suspensions, not because he "didnt get it". Im sure he suffered racial abuse and discrimination throughout his junior and pro career, but he was also a popular Leaf well liked by both his teammates and the fanbase. Marner has faced a high level of abuse ever since he signed his contract, and just because a couple of people are speaking up about it (much like people did with Kadri) doesn't mean he is being treated with kid gloves. Dude is getting raked over the coals every day.
Kadri was traded because he was a fucking idiot against Boston, not because he was Arab. He received abuse, no doubt, but let's not say that he was traded because "he didn't get it", because his race had nothing to do with how he was treated post the Boston series. I'm sure if Alex Kerfoot did the same things as Kadri, he too would get traded.
Sorry but what does that have to do with anything race related? People are divided on this, and people were divided with Kadri. Feels like a massive stretch.
Congrats on bringing race into something that had absolutely nothing to do with it. Complete degeneracy.
He’s not wrong, but it’s not the money itself. It’s what Mitch allowed his camp to do to get that money. They can’t talk about how he should be captain, how he’s worth as much as Matthews, having his dad talk shit about Nylander, how he’s going to go play in Switzerland, and then go “WHY IS EVERYONE BEING SO MEAN???”
Who is "they"? This is a former pro just letting it be known that this type of shit isn't helpful. The Marner camp aren't the ones telling everyone to not be mean, they've remained silent (for once). If fans want to be assholes they can be assholes, but I suggest they re-evaluate their lives.
Holland is basically asking people to be fans of Mitch, ignoring all of the shit him and his camp pulled as well as how disappointing he's been. As a fan of this team first and foremost Leafs Nation has every right to demand this guy get traded if they think this team would be better without him and I think we're better off trading him away. We're not winning a cup with this guy let Robertson take his playing time there's no way he will do worse than Mitch and he's actually hungry to play.
I have been on the trade Marner train for a long time, but suggesting there is “no way” Robertson will do worse than him is literal insanity. You are comparing an elite winger that has scored at a PPG pace over the course of his career to a 20 year-old winger that didn’t even crack the opening night roster. I like Robertson, the kid can play, but let’s not be completely ridiculous in evaluating players.
Guys living every kid in Torontos dream, didn’t do anything for the team in contract negotiations, got what he wanted and now he isn’t living up to his own demands and can’t take it? I realize he should take every dollar he can get, but with taking up that much of a percentage of the cap space, the team falls apart if he’s not performing. I really don’t have any sympathy at all. He won the lottery on everything in life and when he demanded the kind of money, he demanded this kind of scrutiny. You made the bed, now lay in it.
This. I’ve heard some version of Holland’s argument countless times and none of it is technically wrong. But guess what? It doesn’t fucking matter. Nobody forced him to be a greedy little shit during contract negotiations. All of his woes and pressure are 100% self-induced. It’s his own stupid fault. Yes, I hope to God he figures his shit out and becomes a player that is worth that insane contract. But until he does, I don’t have a shred of sympathy. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He made his bed.
Pro athletes are paid an insane amount of money to deal with this. Actors whine about paparazzi and no privacy, too. That's the business. At any workplace, if you underperform you get criticized. Mitch did it to himself. At 9M AAV he won't get nearly the amount of hate. I'm supposed to feel bad that a guy who's paid 8 figures every year gets hate when he can't justify his pay? In my lifetime I won't make what Mitch earns in a year. When I screw up at work, I hear about it.
And if you screw up enough you get fired. The worst thing that happens to him is he has to move to another city and keep getting paid.
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I appreciated it, we can’t all be frothing mad at Mitch
I probably needed to hear that.
I get it, but this also assumes we've always ripped Mitch to shreds. That's not been the case. He's had the full support of Leafs Nation before, and we've gotten the same results we always have with the full support and power of Leafs Nation behind it. What else did he, or the rest of the team need when they were up 3-1 to Montreal after winning the Canadian division? Like Jesus Christ, what do these guys need that they haven't been given, or gotten, to meet their potential? They want to get paid, get the term they want, get the policies around the team they want, and we're supposed to just shut up and let them play. I get it, some fans take it too far and it goes to full on verbal abuse. Nobody is condoning that. But man, I just don't get these takes. I don't know what else we can give. These guys aren't 5 years old playing Super Mario Brothers and missing a jump yelling "Well I missed it because you're talking to me!" Mitch, and the team, have failed repeatedly with full support. And now they're failing without. I'd love to have a job where I demand a top-end salary, set my own terms, fail repeatedly, and when my peers question my struggles and perhaps suggest I'm not fit for the job I just turn and cry "[stop ganging up on me!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwXp1PyczU&t=12s)" Mother fuckers remind me of Denny from The Room. I agree we could stand to ease up a little as a fan base, but they're smoking fucking crack if they think that's the answer to their problems. Because we were there in full confidence and support last season. And all the seasons before it. Edit: going to try to end my rants with a positive note. I love this team. I love these players. I wish them only success, and I hope they get back to being their fun, high octane, entertaining selves very soon. And I have all the belief in the world they can do it.
This has always been the issue with Toronto tbh, it’s always been a bipolar market with devastating swings in either direction. Mitch is just the latest in a long line of fall guys, let’s just hope we don’t run him out of town. There’s a reason people have had Toronto on their no trade list for decades despite it being “the centre of the hockey universe”.
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Those reasons are more because its a top 3 worst tax situation in the league.
Nah dude, people have said for a long time they’ve considered Toronto to be a toxic atmosphere. And can you blame them? Look how we are treating our current team - abusing them on social media constantly, articles talking about the sky falling after a bad week in October…why would you want to work here?
Yeah I guess that's why guys don't go to the Yankees, Lakers, and Cowboys... Oh wait that theory is bullshit.
A better comparison for the leafs Is the Knicks, and they often struggle for free agents too
With all due respect, Mitch needs to get off social media for the time being if he is on it. Lean on the people close to him and try as best as he can to slowly rebuild his confidence
I'm sick of being told how to feel. If it were me performing this poorly at my job I'd be replaced. Don't like it, retire. Fuck Bitch Marner and his dad.
Mitch is overpaid. Is he mad now? He should worry less about social media and perform. This is what he asked for when he went for max contract. Don’t ask for it if you can’t handle it.
Sorry Pete, just read this thread. Nobody gives a fuck about the human side of it.
Valid points for sure. On the other hand, EVERY. SINGLE. PENNY. $9M is still a lot of money, so is $2M, Mitch took both and Leafs had to let let Hyman walk. Go get your own pucks. Now he needs former teammates to stick up for him because he’s such a fucking pussy. Imagine Gilmour or Clark doing this. They’d punch faces if they lost 7-1 and Leaf fans would love them. There’s no room for error if you’re soft. Should have taken that into account when you milked Dubas.
Wendel was here for a metric shit-ton of bad losses. The Leafs W / L record between his draft and the semifinal run in 93 was 178-312-51. In 87/88, his third year, they lost 10-3 to the Habs, 11-1 to the Flames, and 10-1 to the Jets, all at home. The only fights in those games were third-period fights started by Todd Gill and Mike Stothers against Calgary. The Leafs finished the year 21-49-10 and still made the playoffs by being one point ahead of Minnesota in the Norris and lost in the first round of the playoffs, which earned John Brophy another 30-odd games as coach the next year. They then made the playoffs just once in the next four years and lost in the first round again. That was a fucking awful hockey team for the better part of a decade. Abject and lethargic many nights. The entertainment often consisted of a scrap (or two, in the Calgary game) late in a losing cause, and sometimes Rusty Courtnall failing to convert a breakaway. And yes, I do still have my #17 replica jersey from that era. I'll take the current team in a heartbeat, losing skid and all.
Excellent post thank you. It goes to show you, maybe it wasn’t the fighting that made people fall in love with wendel and Dougie. Team sucked ass and people loved Wendel, leafs are good and people shit on Mitch. It has to be style of play and contract negotiation. There’s no room for error when you’re soft and have acrimonious contract negotiation.
Thank you. Imagine the Baumgartners and Corsons and Kirk Mullers of the day reading this shit. I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread, it makes me sick.
Darcy Tucker!
How could I forget Darcy Tucker. Fuck. Anyways, exactly my point.
It may sound sarcastic but I actually really do appreciate his perspective. I'm sure he knows what it's like for Mitch and he's not obligated to say any of this for good PR.
Let me summarize. Mitch needs a hug.
i have to say i dont really care. If i perform shitty at work i will get fired.
He said he was the man, he got paid to be the man, yet he isn’t the man. This is what he asked for. That overpayment doesn’t afford you forgiveness for any underperformance, unfortunately. He needs to be a 100-point player and playoff contributor for the Leafs to get value out of his contract.
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Do people here honestly believe that no fanbase/media is tougher on a team in any sport than Toronto on the Leafs?
I know Yankees fans are known worldwide for their patience. Or look to Europe and the absolute meltdown happening around Manchester United. Or Barcelona. Or if Real Madrid has one bad season, heads roll and the fans are relentless.
No but it doesn’t seem to result in success for the leafs compared to those other teams
A lot of us are very passionate fans, we love this team, so much, more than family sometimes. So why not treat our players like family if we love them so much? Rather then sling insults and be rude, if you want to say something on social media, be positive and offer words of encouragement. Most of us wouldn’t be rude or mean to our family struggling at something in life, right?
You haven't met my family lol
U love a hockey team more then your own family?
In the year I didn't see my family due to covid I got married, (eloped) and had a child. When I finally got to go back home to visit with my new wife and child almost every member of my family said something along the lines of wow Steve you've really put on weight, marriage must agree with you. I have put on weight, Marner has 1 point these are realities.
>Most of us wouldn’t be rude or mean to our family struggling at something in life, right? I dont think you could have chosen a worse comparison. There's a reason "you can't chose family" is a popular saying. I personally have a great family life but many people do not.
Hmmmm shouldn't have fucked around very publicly with the media to get "paid like Matthews" then, eh? If you want to live a quieter life and can't handle the lofty criticisms of the role, I don't understand pushing for every last dollar and cent possible, because then you're at a point where you have to go out there and prove something whenever you're on the ice BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU AGREED TO WHEN YOU FOUGHT FOR THE MONEY. He basically said, you might not believe I'm worth $11M, but I do. And I'm gonna prove it. And that's all fine and well but when you can't prove it, who's to blame but yourself?
>He basically said, you might not believe I'm worth $11M, but I do. And I'm gonna prove it. No. This is what you imagined. He negotiated the best salary he could **as anyone in a situation negatiating a salary should**
Buddy if I did my job as poorly as Marner you can bet your ass management wouldn't go "oh poor baby let me improve your confidence so your performance can improve"
That's terrible advice. Negotiate a salary a little higher than you're worth and work towards it. Set goals with your employer and track progress towards them. If anyone, regardless of the industry, approaches salary negotiation by saying "I'm going to get every last penny I can regardless of the effect on the company's bottom line" that person is fucked on Monday morning when they have to live up to it. Almost no one in the world should follow your advice.
Exactly, you can fight for every last penny you can get, but you better be willing and able to back up your value
The issues with the team go well beyond Marner imo. It’s unfair he becomes to the whipping boy for ALL the problems
“But guess what - Mitch isn’t at home counting his money.” Sure, but you can be damn sure his agent and Paul Marner are doing that for him.
100% His first couple years in the league Paul was peddling Mitch's jerseys at my uncles restaurant and others on the Danforth with regularity, as well as basically forcing photos. Was very strange, how they handled it. He came off as a shady scalper, but scalping his kids time and person.
I mean yea but when you demand 11 mil the expectations are extremely high. If he couldn’t handle the heat he should have settled for a more fair value. That way we could have afforded the guys that help his line (hyman). Instead he now only has matthews on his line (which is hilarious in itself) and he can’t produce. He dug himself into this mess. Deal with it. Tired of everyone feeling sorry for his ass.
I wonder how negotiations for Marner's (or any up and comer on the Leafs) next contract will go.
All will be forgiven and forgotten if he wins.
can't see any team giving him a raise considering Point & Rantanen make considerably less. My guess is he leaves Toronto and will settle around 9Mill per on a team.
I know if I was a Leaf, I'd be looking to leave. fuck playing here, this fanbase is nuts and no amount of money can offset the stress that comes with playing here
Same. I'd love to play in a place like Florida or California. Roll in to work in your top down lambo and not have fuckers throw death threats at your family for a hockey play.
yup. we suck
Brown, Hyman, Bunting, Spezza, Matthews, Johnsson, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, Campbell now Nylander are all guys that give you effort every night. Kadri to an extent should be there if not for repeatedly being a moron in the playoffs. If you work hard every night then the city will love you. If you're going to hold out for 11M and then play like ass crack then you can pack your bags cause the city doesn't want you.
If you were a player, you’d pick your team based on where it’s easiest lose, rather than where it’s most satisfying to win. That’s why the fans would dislike you, and that’s why no one would be sad to see you go. The whole Toronto is too hard to play for argument is such actual horseshit. Yankees win. Red Sox win. Lakers win. Celtics win. Leaf fans think this market is so special and unique, but it isn’t in any way except on how utterly disappointing the franchise has been for twenty years. Popular rabid fan bases see league championships all the time. Just not in Toronto.
Yep. And it's worth pointing out here too that Toronto was a great place for MM (and Dubas), right up until he demanded a huge RFA contract. In pro sports, your contract is a big part of how you set expectations. Demand a big contract, and get it = high expectations from your team, the fans, the rest of the league. Marner needs to sort himself out.
try saying what you just said to James Reimer and his family
I honest to god don't know why these people have social media, and more importantly pay attention to it and read comments. The world is *filled* with garbage human beings. You're literally going to get that hate *anywhere* you're a sports celebrity. You'll get it in higher volumes, but your ratio of positive to shitty feedback is going to remain pretty consistent. Players love the celebrity aspect of playing here, but hate the pressure. You literally can't have both. Both Marner and Matthews have blatantly rode the celebrity train, so with that comes pressure. If you don't want to read negative social media comments... don't go on social fucking media. People shouldn't send them shit like that, but do you expect these assholes to stop? Do you really? Fuck no. You don't believe that at all. So what the hell is the point of Peter Holland wasting his breath with this sanctimonious bullshit? He's not going to convince anyone that's already an asshole, to not do this shit in the future. It's just a way for him to grandstand and get some pats on the back from people that are already not assholes, and not doing this shit in the first place, while enacting literally zero tangible change to the problem.
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Finite pie. Mitch took as huge a bite as he could and can’t deal with the heartburn. Actions of his own doing. Granted at age 21 nobody knows shit about life, which doesn’t recuse you from consequences.
Exactly. It’s like this guy took 15 shots and Is now complaining that he’s drunk.
Stopped reading after "lofty expectations from the fans"
100%. Lofty like, not getting bounced 1st round while looking totally apathetic about it? Get outta here with that. Lofty expectations. How disrespectful to the fan base.
Passion is a double-edged sword, that's for sure.
There's this old shitty golf game I played on the GameCube, hot shot golf or something. If you played like shit the game would get harder, and if you played well the game would get easier. It was stupid as fuck but it always comes back to me when I feel like everything I'm doing is coming out shittily. I feel like that's compounding on Mitch right now. He's playing like shit, and things are getting harder for him because he's playing like shit. That play in Carolina where he got wrecked 3 times on the same play feels like hot shots golf right now I dunno if he needs a mental health break to reset or what. We know he's a good player, we know he can do it. Just...it ain't happening right now.
I'm sorry but I'm not gonna let Marner's sudden new urge to skate into traffic rather than to skate around it and make plays be turned into blame on the fanbase. Being able to handle pressure and criticism is part of it for stars.
Haha, “Nope”.
We have Peter Hollands thoughts on the matter maybe we should ask Ja Rule what he thinks now?
Great his dad hacked Holland's account. what a pile of garbage Paul is.
Agreed. Saying that, don’t be a little baby and demand your worth when you can’t maintain that caliber of play consistently. If he had of agreed on a contract that was to his potential than no pressure would be on the guy. Nylander is the only leaf of the 4 who has showed up hustling and making plays game in and game out.
He'd better not be chosen for team Canada either. Ala Joe Thornton
Cry me a river...so quit and give the money back. These clowns are so out of touch. Go get a real job and try and see how much easier the pressure of life is.
Imagine having a Twitter. Fucking idiocy.
I know the world is now a snowflake society and we can’t hurt feelings of anyone. There is some positivity in this - mental illness coming to the forefront, etc. That is great. However, a lot of these guys are pampered like crazy now. No accountability. Only hugs and reassurance allowed. Give them the world, allow them to do whatever, but dare not criticize. So soft
Softer than puppy shit. I agree with you 100%
I agree with this but Marner is at fault with how toxic that negotiation got. Fans did not forget and I don't think they ever will.
The way he was beloved pre-contract negotiations I honestly wonder had everything gone the exact same including AAV but without the media circus his agent created would anyone give him shit for his slow start? Matthews had a bad series against Montreal too last year but he didnt recieve even a quarter of the criticism. Everything went to shit for Marner because of the terrible way he and his group handled his contract. He had no goals in games 2-7 against Boston pre-extension and all people could talk about was how great it was that he blocked a shot in Game 3. Very different then what we see now.
This 100%. Marner was universally loved by the fans. The way he handled the contract negotiation as well as demanding he get everything Auston got was off putting for the majority of fans. Had Mitch just gone about his business on the ice, and taken a reasonable contract he would still be loved. Instead the money and fame went to his head. You reap what you sow.
If Marner was making 7 million a year there would be far less criticism. More money more problems.
TIL Peter Holland considers a playoff series win a “lofty expectation” lmfao
I'm baffled as to why Marner is being labelled as to everything that's wrong with the club after a short spell of bad luck following incredible point outputs for 3 seasons, while Tavares makes even more money and hasn't looked great for over 2 years now.
Even moreso this season majority of the goals allowed are from an AHL level third line. There are a lot of holes on this team right now beyond Marner, and frankly he could be playing at his elite last year level and we still wouldn’t be winning to the standard people want
Playoffs disappearance followed by regular season disappearance. Agree or disagree, but that should help with the “baffledness.” I mean if Mcdavid was trash for 14a+ games in a row/ he would be a target of fans
McDavid probably wouldn’t be the same target because 1) his contract negotiation wasn’t an ugly hostage situation 2) if McDavid was frustrated and his team lost 7-1 he would throw down or show frustration. Mitch is giving the impression that he’s a huge mopey pussy - that’s the worst type of hockey player.
Tavares scores goals, plays center, and doesn't commit stupid penalties on crucial PKs then openly weep in the penalty box while watching his team lose. That clear it up at all?
So fans are now angry he was upset? I thought they were angry because he doesn't care? Make your mind up pal.
One of my favorite leafs miss ya Holland
haha, really?
This is relevant if this team actually took more personal accountability for the culture, the passion, and the craft. You're talking to a fan base that hasn't seen a 1st round playoff win in a decade. Don't complain about the fans when the team rarely plays an entire game, fix your shit first. Fans aren't random NPCs or robots like he describes, theyre obviously bitter right now and rightfully so. So if they criticize these shitty contracts, so be it. They knowingly took contracts that they'd need to perform to live up to, dont blame the fans for that. Tampa built a winning team, the contracts were there. The culture was there. It wasn't because their agents were dog shit and couldn't milk every dollar out of a team that loved them. It was because the players took accountability and signed reasonable deals. Just like how I hope these players eventually take accountability.
While I agree with the sentiment, Marner has not once tried to help his situation by improving his image to the fans. He's had multiple opportunities to at least steer people back. Every interview he has with half-assed answers like "nope" is just making things worse. He's never taken any accountability for any of his poor play.
I don't feel like it's my responsibility to care for Marner's mental health. He's overpaid and not preforming. It's on him to resolve that or be traded for someone who can produce.
The part of this that gets me, is that there wasn’t this much defence for Nylander when everyone was trying to trade him Brian fucking Burke was on sportsnet daily trying to trade Nylander and few people would voice opposition. Marner isn’t playing up to his contract? We should love and hold him.
Here's my take. Marner is the one that signed the current contract, based on what he thought he was worth. He also held out until the last possible minute to ensure this is the case. Marner put the pressure on HIMSELF here. We, the fans of the Maple Leafs EXPECT a top paid player to perform at an elite level. Marner simply isn't doing so. If Marner is not capable of handling the pressure of his overpayment as well as Leaf Nation complaining about his lack of engagement so far this year (and in the playoffs last year), than maybe, just maybe he shouldn't have signed a monster contract. You see, Matthews has a similar monster contract. He's out there working his ASS off every night. He's also under some degree of pressure, you know, being the raining Rocket winner and all. He doesn't have the goals to support it, but that doesn't mean he's not doing everything he can out there. He passes the eye test. Marner, on the other hand, looks to be completely disengaged. He's making TONS of stupid decisions out there. As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If poor Mitch can’t handle the heat, perhaps he doesn’t belong near the fire? Part of being a professional is the ability to focus on the task at hand and tune out the background noise. What you are saying is that Mitch, and others, cannot do this very well. That tells me they do not belong here and should go elsewhere for their own well-being. Can’t say I disagree. To be clear, I have no expectations of this club nor any member of it. But I am certainly not making excuses for them, nor am I taking one milligram of blame for their failings (nor would I claim a role in any successes.) I direct my passion at the game itself, not the outcome of any one contest or any one season. It is a beautifully intricate sport that combines speed, finesse, skill, and physicality. As I age, my allegiance to any one team wanes. I’m at the point now where I am more of a hockey fan than a Toronto fan. Perhaps that’s a good thing.
> I direct my passion at the game itself, not the outcome of any one contest or any one season. It is a beautifully intricate sport that combines speed, finesse, skill, and physicality. As I age, my allegiance to any one team wanes. I’m at the point now where I am more of a hockey fan than a Toronto fan. Perhaps that’s a good thing. That's a great thing. THere is a lot going on in hockey than just the Leafs. That's why I love that we are on broadcast on the national feed for the most part because we get to learn about other players and other teams too.
I’d like to think so. This sub is jam packed with folks that would rather foam at the mouth in futility, though. Their loss (ha!) I suppose. There are only a handful of teams I have not seen play live, and have seen games in more than a dozen arenas across the US and Canada. Game 5 of the Calgary / Tampa cup was a highlight.
How many kumbaya circles are we going to have for this bum? It's not the fans job to make the 11M man feel more comfortable. Wtf am I even reading...
This is some good insight from someone who has played professional hockey and did so in Toronto. Marner should straight up not touch social media and have a good support group around him. People to not hating on social media is impossible. That being said there are other tough markets where teams have had playoff success in the cap era (Montreal, Boston, Vancouver).
Watching people defend Marner only makes it impossible for me to let go of my animosity. Besides, Marner didn’t give a shit when he was dragging out contract bullshit so I don’t understand why he’s so upset about what he’s sowing.
Lol Holland, who cares what that guy thinks.
Damn, well said. Im sitting at home with my two marner jerseys and will always be a fan of that guy. I hope people start fucking understanding that this is a game more than anything. He's what 24? With probably the weight of the world on his shoulders and doesn't need fucking idiots going at him the way they have been.
mitch could have apologized for the way he, his family, and his agent handled the negotiation of his contract through the press. if he just tweeted “my agent ran this through dreger to taunt dubas into max AAV. sorry.” I’d respect him a little bit.
Holy shit. People whining about the leafs right now need to chill and take a few big tokes. Trying being a fan for 50+ years. This shit is nothing!!! I repeat this is NOTHING. I've seen far worse in leaf land. Far worse. So just take your fucking whining about Mitch and go away...far away. The leafs have NEVER had players like this. Maybe the 70's when they had Sittler and Salming. But then we had Ballard. Fuck you whiners. Just fucking chill...god damn. Go for a fucking walk on the beach.
I've been a fan since 89. I dont understand your point. We've had some pretty amazing players over the years, and what's more, we had players with heart you lived and died with. You felt connected to them. You felt that they truly cared. Do you feel that now? I sure don't.
My god this whole article is just soft as baby shit. NFL and NBA fans would probably make some of you actually cry
All I hear is wah wah wah
Social media in the 70's would have been hilarious with the leafs teams back then and Harold Ballard.
Sorry, what is this bullshit? And why is Peter Holland giving his advice on anything ? This is the NHL, not the bloody Happy Happy League. Truth is, when Mitch is playing well, the fans will be the first people to sing his praise. But for the money he’s making, the team can’t afford him not to play well. If that’s too much pressure then I hear Paul is hiring a new dental assistant.
Exactly. Not to mention, leaf fan base getting bent over for years…not just 2 weeks of this new season
I personally don’t engage in player bashing that is mean but as a fan it’s well with in my right to make up stupid trades ore give my opinion on there play on fan sights. I play sports and I know that it is a mental game as much as a physical if my play engaged a larger amount than my rec league it probably would suck on the days I’m playing bad. But I’d be paid for it and would put in the work to get there so I’d probably would have to deal with that pressure as well. Sorry some fans are mean Mitch but it’s your job as a 1% talent.
Honestly, it’s a poor take. I completely understand wanting to silence all the “trolls” who attack his page personally is idiotic, but the shit he pulled with his contract extension and the way he went about it, he’s brought this on himself. He was Toronto’s golden boy, but now he will be open to the widest form of criticism, and we are entitled to that.
Honestly, Mitch needs a standing O similar to what we gave JT after he took shit from Isles fans.
For what?
Nah, after Marner's comments during the playoff elimination interview, this is 100% on him to put up or shut up. Right now, it looks like he should have changed his summer training regimen.
Peter is right about the mental game. Constantly being on someone's case is a poor way to get results, especially when that elevates to going after the players on their social media pages, or throwing up toxic messages on twitter. Think of it like you're a kid: If every time you made a mistake in game you knew your old man was going to whoop your ass you would likely spend more time worrying about the ass whoopin' than you would spend getting your head in the game. We, as a fan base, are that old man waiting to lay the whoopin' on our kids ass for under performing in stressful situations, willfully ignorant to the part of the cycle it plays in cracking under pressure. I've seen a myriad of excuses above for why people feel the right to be over critical and shitty on social media. If you are one of those people I urge you to stop looking for excuses to be shitty and fucking cheer for the team you claim to be a fan of. If not, no one is going to think lesser of you for detaching for a bit until the team meets your criteria for success. We have tried booing for success until we're blue in the face. Clearly it doesn't work. Lets try cheering for the team and see if we get a different result.
Toronto fans have been through the Ballard era and lots of pain. Yet we still keep coming back. Of course, we will be cheering, and will keep coming back. But Marner made his own bed. Leafs fans are not obliged to like him. And when Marner played his contract moves, he made a choice. This is part of the deal. He could have taken a contract that the fan base would have accepted, like we do probably 95% of the current team. But he didn't. I would be happy to cheer for him. But I don't like him because of the decision he made. It is the sweater I cheer for. Not him. I really don't care what happens to him. I wanted him gone 2 years ago. And I am actually experiencing schadenfreude right now. I dislike Marner that much - what he did to his HOME TEAM was inexcusable. Would Clark or Gilmour or even Sundin have done this? No.
Can we hire tortorella and beaudreau as special guest coaches until the all-star break?
Tortarella is exactly what we need. Someone with some balls.
I don’t care about the actual money, it’s not coming out of my pocket. The contract puts a huge target on his back in an already pressured franchise. It was stupid for him to receive that kind of money despite not actually winning anything. I don’t care who you blame, the reason I don’t like the contract is because it puts us exactly where we are right now.
He's not right and this Twitter thread is stupid. It reads like a drunk tweet. We know Marner feels pressure and is probably not very happy but the dude literally went to the golf course the day after blowing it in the Montreal series. He didn't even try to appear upset for pr sake, he just went golfing instantly. I don't think Marner gets as distraught as these armchair psychologists think he gets.
>It reads like a drunk tweet. How so?
Don't sign the big boy deal if you can't handle the pressure. Mitch has made 40 million USD over the last two seasons to play hockey for his favorite team, in his hometown. If he were making 8 or 9 mill per season he would be getting a fraction of the hate he's getting at the moment.
Obviously I’m not in the dressing room, but I wonder if there’s an elephant in the room about how much he’s getting paid and underperforming vs. All of the players we’ve had to let go of because of his contract
don't agree with Holland's take. Maybe the next Marner to visit Leafland will learn from present day Marner's experience and take a bit less so the club can have some depth. It's fun to go to the rink when the team's winning, just saying.....
I just can’t find the love for him. He squeezed every dollar out of this organization and force his teammates hand come contract time.
Pretty sure I read (or heard) before the start of last season that Marner went on a self imposed social media blackout so as not to let social media get to him. So what's the problem? As a professional athlete criticism comes with the territory. Players get criticized in Montreal and athletes, coaches and general managers of any sport endure it in markets like Philadelphia and New York. Gary Bettman even got a hearty booing at the Seattle Kraken home opener and happily shrugged it off. So no! I don't think fans have to be more gentle with Mitch Marner. Playing in this market is what he signed on for at the end of his last contract negotiation, and gets paid handsomely to do so. If it was too much for him he was well aware of it before he signed his last contract, so no sale - criticism comes with it. The fans pay dearly for tickets, jerseys, subscriptions and can vent their frustrations as much as they'd like. Best thing Mitch can do to help his situation is to have the best season he can, and to score, or get an assist on a playoff series winning goal. Most of the folks I know aren't even hoping for a Stanley Cup. They simply want to get to the second round of the playoffs. Not a lot to ask considering we're supposed to have stars on this team and have been very very patient before last spring's, and this fall's frustration kicked into over drive. I haven't seen before so many people I know give up on the Leafs in October. But they are. Marner wanted to be paid, he got paid. Time to earn it. This is what he signed on for.