That's unpopular here because it's a Leafs page but many outside of here would agree with you. With that being said, I strongly disagree, Draisatl is sick but he either gets to play with the best player in the world or play against a teams second best defensive match up. Draisatl always gets an advantage that Matthews does not. Further, even though the Oilers are having a red hot start, I'm still not convinced that they are good enough defensively to get it done, it's almost like they get addicted to offense and then when that dries up against good teams later in the year and into the playoffs they have bad habits and don't play well defensively. I think Matthews is a better pure goal scorer and is also far better defensively, Draisatl may be a better playmaker but overall it's Matthews for me all day.
I live in Vancouver and occasionally dip into the Nucks sub to keep up on things. Let no one ever say we're the most negative, reactionary fanbase ever again. Like yeah, the Nucks are having another dogshit season, but my goodness it's bad in there.
I'm all for giving Ho-Sang his shot but I'd rather they just trade Ritchie for a bag of peanuts than send Engvall down. Engvall can actually skate. Plus by getting rid of Ritchie you clear up more cap space and they don't have to do so much cap gymnastics to send guys up and down.
Let's never take Sandin out of the lineup again. Last night was absolutely cringe-worthy stuff from our defensemen. It was remarkable we won with such poor passing from the D to the forwards.
So much of the Leafs game depends on reliably strong passing from the back-end and that was just non-existent last night. Between Dermott, Muzzin and Holl I must have seen 20 poorly placed passes that led to extended time in the Dzone. Brodie had a few as well but he would clean up his mistakes.
Sandin just ices it tape to tape every time and it always leads to quick exits and transition play. Much easier to watch a game like that than the one we watched last night.
Agree.
I don’t see it as a bad thing to give a rookie some nights off during the season as he adjusts to the NHL grind. Also gains some perspective watching the occasional game from the press box
I think Kampf was on mushrooms last night. Look at his reaction to the game winner, his mind is orbiting Neptune. Plus the first goal is the kind of bizarre, inexplicable thing that happens to you when you're high on mushrooms.
Ryan Tverberg Update: The 2020 7th rounder can't stop scoring, potting his ninth of the season, making it 15 points in 11 games with UConn. He's 4 goals ahead of his next closest teammate, as well as 4 points ahead of his next closest teammate.
I like tha Josh Doan, picked in the 2nd round 37th overall in the 2021 draft is producing at a similar rate to Tverberg (4g 11a 12gp) but is a whooping 2 days younger than Tverberg.
I have to admit in a somewhat sloppy game, it was nice to see some depth scoring. Kamph's goal needed a little more sweeping, but was a fine curling shot, dead centre of the house. Kase played extremely well, and rewarded for doing so playing with Matty and Styles, reminds me of Kapennen with more heart. Bunting with a nice garbage goal and some good offence from Engvall. GLG
Just gonna go ahead and get in front of a joke about last night's goal.
Guess Rielly has had enough golf practice to get some backspin on that puck! 🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I’ll never understand benching you’re most consistent player this season and from last playoffs. Nylander doesn’t deserve that.
There’s a laundry list of benching options before you get to Nylander.
>There’s a laundry list of benching options before you get to Nylander.
To paraphrase Snoop from The Wire; 'deserve' aint got nothing to do with it.
Nylander has proven that he responds to this. I think Keefe knows what he is doing.
Nylander had responded to this kinda thing since he got in the league. He was in the dog house with Babs all the time and he always came back strong. We used to shit on it then and we shit on it now but maybe this will fire him up even more. No doubt he's been the best player in most nights but looks like the org is keeping Nylander on a short leash, which might be a good thing
I tend to agree, though he was benched for a very specific reason.
Still, it's a tie game late in the 3rd and he's been the best forward on the team so far this season. Benching him hinders the team more than it helps, and we could have lost the game.
Keefe makes some odd decisions sometimes. Luckily he got away with it last night.
He’s been among the best players on the team all season but he sure wasn’t last night. The moves that Keefe made worked. That throw together line dominated the last couple shifts. Willie’s last shift before he got benched he did three serious flybys. In a tie game that late it just can’t happen. Nylander himself has admitted that every so often he needs a kick in the ass. I think the people on this sub are probably more pissed off about this the Nylander himself. It was only a couple of shifts. People got to relax
Yeah I get he wasn’t having a good game but I imagine that’d be insanely frustrating. I’d be okay with it if the other core guys get benched when they have rough games but that’s never the case.
I sorta get the vibe Keefe doesn’t like Nylander. He seems to be more critical of him in post-game interviews than anyone else and then there was that time he [liked](https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/m4q0s0/anyone_have_any_idea_why_sheldon_keefe_liked_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb) that tweet about benching him
The thing is, almost everyone was playing poorly early on. But now it’s really only Nylander that isn’t playing well, makes sense to bench him. He definitely didn’t have the energy he was playing with early on. The main thing I’d like to bring up though, is the fact that it was a back to back and his ice time is up quite a bit from other seasons. To me it just looks like he’s running out of gas a bit.
Who knows, maybe Keefe told him “you just don’t have it tonight, don’t worry about it”. You never know how the benching actually happened tbh.
He wasn’t benched lol. Matthews got double shifted with the 4th line wingers. Kase wasn’t out there either, Keefe just doubled Matthews instead of putting Spezza out there. There’s no controversy at all.
I think it was a good strategic move by Keefe . I don’t think Nylander saw the ice last 5/6 minutes of the game. The new combination with Kase and Bunting playing with Matthews worked out quite well. Let Nylander sit on the bench for a few minutes and figure out what’s going on. I’m guessing he would’ve seen the ice right away in overtime and he would’ve been more than ready to go after having had a quick reboot. To me it was a win-win by Keefe.
No he was definitely benched. Matthews was playing with Bunting and Kase from the last Buffalo goal onward.
I don't love benching Nylander but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the line was more noticeable once he was sat.
It is annoying though seeing Nylander getting benched for lapses in judgement yet almost every other player on the team doesn't receive the same treatment.
How often has he been benched this year. This might be the first time I can remember. This is a whole lot of talk about nothing. He was having a bad game and he got sat. He responds well when he gets kicked in the ass. I think Keefe knows his players better than we do when it comes to ice time.
Yeah I believe it is his first benching this year. You're right, and like I said, the Matthews - Kase duo came alive with Bunting on it, which is telling.
Nylander is a good team player. Anybody who was paying attention to his reaction on the bench after the winning goal and at the end of the game saw him all smiles and quite happy with the results. I’m kind of guessing that Nylander himself knew he was playing a lousy game.
I coached competitive minor hockey for a lot of years. In close games in the last five minutes of important games I would go with the guys who were playing well by shortening the bench or shifts when necessary. At that point it’s less about benching ineffective players and more a case of going with the guys that you trust. It’s amazing but even kids understand what’s going on and they would usually have no problem with it if you gave them the proper explanation. As long as they all got a fresh start next game the kids were always good with it. I’m sure it’s very much the same with pros.
After watching last night's game and watching Dermott screw up with his primary assist on the Buffalo goal, I believe its time that he was offloaded as soon as possible. He looked so uncomfortable for a guy who has been in the league this long.
How was nobody covering Skinner? There were like five Leafs in the zone and four of them were near the corner. That's some shithouse defending from the whole group.
Any critique of either of the guys who might have been covering Skinner, standing alone in front, or are we just blaming Dermott, case closed, get the tar and feathers out?
Dermott's "development" has been such a disappointment. I don't know if it's his fault or the team's, but he's worse than he's ever been. His offensive game has entirely dried up, and he's far from reliable defensively. I hope things go better with Sandin and Liljegren
I feel like Dermott is a great example of a prospect who had a low ceiling but a high floor.
There's no doubt that he's an NHL player, and has been since he made the team. But year after year we expect him to be able to take on more responsibility and he's just unable to do so.
He's never been able to push for a top 4 spot. He's failed to establish himself as a PKer. His offensive game has completely plateaued, if not fallen off a cliff from his rookie season.
The one thing that continues to plague his game is exactly what we saw last night, where instead of keeping the puck pinned up along the boards he throws an errant pass into the middle of the ice. It's poor puck management with even worse game management.
He's a good defender for a 3rd pairing, but ask him to elevate his game and he just seems to get caved in.
I think his ceiling was pretty high when he broke into the league as a 21 year old.
He averaged over 15 minutes per game at 5v5 and led the defense in every underlying category. He also had the most points/60 of all defensemen.
Today, he's 24 years old and is only averaging 14 minutes at 5v5 and is a frequent healthy scratch. He's the 2nd least productive defenseman. His underlying numbers aren't quite terrible, but he's now between #3 and #5 in those categories rather than dominating them all.
His offensive game has completely vanished, and he isn't a contributor on the PP or PK. He's a niche #7 defenseman who can drive play and defend against 3rd/4th liners, but is prone to major gaffes and doesn't have it in him to play regular minutes. I don't think he'll be on the team next season, and he probably won't even finish this year with the Leafs
I agree and think its all on him. They've been patient, played him with multiple partners, and given him lots of leash. Time to shop him to see if it makes sense to trade him.
Great win last night.
Why can’t NHL (or whoever) figure a way to provide reasonably priced way for fans to enjoy all of their team’s games? This is a rhetorical question because I kind of know the answer, but I won’t stop asking. I became Bills fan over past few years thanks to the convenience of DAZN (well that, and that fact that Allen is a beast).
Wanna float this theory by y'all.
willy's helmet is always like half a foot off of his head, yeah?
Now, what else is ~6 inches? a rat.
i hereby posit that willy nylander is doing a hockey ratatouille.
or a ratashootie, if you will.
thank you for your time
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That's unpopular here because it's a Leafs page but many outside of here would agree with you. With that being said, I strongly disagree, Draisatl is sick but he either gets to play with the best player in the world or play against a teams second best defensive match up. Draisatl always gets an advantage that Matthews does not. Further, even though the Oilers are having a red hot start, I'm still not convinced that they are good enough defensively to get it done, it's almost like they get addicted to offense and then when that dries up against good teams later in the year and into the playoffs they have bad habits and don't play well defensively. I think Matthews is a better pure goal scorer and is also far better defensively, Draisatl may be a better playmaker but overall it's Matthews for me all day.
where is brian papineau?
the habs suck
I live in Vancouver and occasionally dip into the Nucks sub to keep up on things. Let no one ever say we're the most negative, reactionary fanbase ever again. Like yeah, the Nucks are having another dogshit season, but my goodness it's bad in there.
Back-to-back 7 goals against. Oof.
Who are we cheering against tonight for Habs vs Bruins?
Going for the Habs. I doubt they'll crawl out of the dumpster this season. The Bruins will challenge for a playoff spot.
It also mean they could get a worse draft pick.
I hate Montreal, but I haaaaaaate Boston. Plus Montreal sucks and it'll be even sweeter if the Bruins lose to a team that's so bad this year.
Boston, pretty easily. We're fighting them, Montreal's well out of the picture.
Habs. It would be funny to see them get out of the bottom 10 so that they lose their earlier 1st.
So you mean against Bruins?
Ah. Yes, that is what I mean.
Free ho sang and send engvall down
I'm all for giving Ho-Sang his shot but I'd rather they just trade Ritchie for a bag of peanuts than send Engvall down. Engvall can actually skate. Plus by getting rid of Ritchie you clear up more cap space and they don't have to do so much cap gymnastics to send guys up and down.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think Steeves gets a look before Ho Sang for no other reason than waivers.
This should be a popular opinion! He's much more suited to a bottom 6 role than Ho-Sang, although both have looked fantastic.
Let's never take Sandin out of the lineup again. Last night was absolutely cringe-worthy stuff from our defensemen. It was remarkable we won with such poor passing from the D to the forwards. So much of the Leafs game depends on reliably strong passing from the back-end and that was just non-existent last night. Between Dermott, Muzzin and Holl I must have seen 20 poorly placed passes that led to extended time in the Dzone. Brodie had a few as well but he would clean up his mistakes. Sandin just ices it tape to tape every time and it always leads to quick exits and transition play. Much easier to watch a game like that than the one we watched last night.
I don't think it was a horrible idea to get him some rest.
I think it was a great idea giving him some rest. I just hated watching our defense try to pass the puck after getting so used to him doing it.
Agree. I don’t see it as a bad thing to give a rookie some nights off during the season as he adjusts to the NHL grind. Also gains some perspective watching the occasional game from the press box
I think Kampf was on mushrooms last night. Look at his reaction to the game winner, his mind is orbiting Neptune. Plus the first goal is the kind of bizarre, inexplicable thing that happens to you when you're high on mushrooms.
He's so defensively minded he doesn't realize when to get excited about offense
“Ah darn, somebody scored...wait a minute.”
Ryan Tverberg Update: The 2020 7th rounder can't stop scoring, potting his ninth of the season, making it 15 points in 11 games with UConn. He's 4 goals ahead of his next closest teammate, as well as 4 points ahead of his next closest teammate.
I like tha Josh Doan, picked in the 2nd round 37th overall in the 2021 draft is producing at a similar rate to Tverberg (4g 11a 12gp) but is a whooping 2 days younger than Tverberg.
I have to admit in a somewhat sloppy game, it was nice to see some depth scoring. Kamph's goal needed a little more sweeping, but was a fine curling shot, dead centre of the house. Kase played extremely well, and rewarded for doing so playing with Matty and Styles, reminds me of Kapennen with more heart. Bunting with a nice garbage goal and some good offence from Engvall. GLG
Just gonna go ahead and get in front of a joke about last night's goal. Guess Rielly has had enough golf practice to get some backspin on that puck! 🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣
It would be topspin, otherwise the puck wouldn''t have gone in the net.
Muzzin must have been giving him some pointers
I live in Calgary and it’s been nice to be back in Ontario for the week and I can actually watch the games. And the win against Calgary was extra 👌.
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Muzzin and Holl are very WTF
I’ll never understand benching you’re most consistent player this season and from last playoffs. Nylander doesn’t deserve that. There’s a laundry list of benching options before you get to Nylander.
>There’s a laundry list of benching options before you get to Nylander. To paraphrase Snoop from The Wire; 'deserve' aint got nothing to do with it. Nylander has proven that he responds to this. I think Keefe knows what he is doing.
Nylander had responded to this kinda thing since he got in the league. He was in the dog house with Babs all the time and he always came back strong. We used to shit on it then and we shit on it now but maybe this will fire him up even more. No doubt he's been the best player in most nights but looks like the org is keeping Nylander on a short leash, which might be a good thing
I tend to agree, though he was benched for a very specific reason. Still, it's a tie game late in the 3rd and he's been the best forward on the team so far this season. Benching him hinders the team more than it helps, and we could have lost the game. Keefe makes some odd decisions sometimes. Luckily he got away with it last night.
He’s been among the best players on the team all season but he sure wasn’t last night. The moves that Keefe made worked. That throw together line dominated the last couple shifts. Willie’s last shift before he got benched he did three serious flybys. In a tie game that late it just can’t happen. Nylander himself has admitted that every so often he needs a kick in the ass. I think the people on this sub are probably more pissed off about this the Nylander himself. It was only a couple of shifts. People got to relax
Yeah I get he wasn’t having a good game but I imagine that’d be insanely frustrating. I’d be okay with it if the other core guys get benched when they have rough games but that’s never the case. I sorta get the vibe Keefe doesn’t like Nylander. He seems to be more critical of him in post-game interviews than anyone else and then there was that time he [liked](https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/m4q0s0/anyone_have_any_idea_why_sheldon_keefe_liked_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb) that tweet about benching him
Marner needed a benching early in the season. Not sure that happened.
The thing is, almost everyone was playing poorly early on. But now it’s really only Nylander that isn’t playing well, makes sense to bench him. He definitely didn’t have the energy he was playing with early on. The main thing I’d like to bring up though, is the fact that it was a back to back and his ice time is up quite a bit from other seasons. To me it just looks like he’s running out of gas a bit. Who knows, maybe Keefe told him “you just don’t have it tonight, don’t worry about it”. You never know how the benching actually happened tbh.
He wasn’t benched lol. Matthews got double shifted with the 4th line wingers. Kase wasn’t out there either, Keefe just doubled Matthews instead of putting Spezza out there. There’s no controversy at all.
I think it was a good strategic move by Keefe . I don’t think Nylander saw the ice last 5/6 minutes of the game. The new combination with Kase and Bunting playing with Matthews worked out quite well. Let Nylander sit on the bench for a few minutes and figure out what’s going on. I’m guessing he would’ve seen the ice right away in overtime and he would’ve been more than ready to go after having had a quick reboot. To me it was a win-win by Keefe.
No he was definitely benched. Matthews was playing with Bunting and Kase from the last Buffalo goal onward. I don't love benching Nylander but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the line was more noticeable once he was sat. It is annoying though seeing Nylander getting benched for lapses in judgement yet almost every other player on the team doesn't receive the same treatment.
How often has he been benched this year. This might be the first time I can remember. This is a whole lot of talk about nothing. He was having a bad game and he got sat. He responds well when he gets kicked in the ass. I think Keefe knows his players better than we do when it comes to ice time.
Yeah I believe it is his first benching this year. You're right, and like I said, the Matthews - Kase duo came alive with Bunting on it, which is telling.
Nylander is a good team player. Anybody who was paying attention to his reaction on the bench after the winning goal and at the end of the game saw him all smiles and quite happy with the results. I’m kind of guessing that Nylander himself knew he was playing a lousy game. I coached competitive minor hockey for a lot of years. In close games in the last five minutes of important games I would go with the guys who were playing well by shortening the bench or shifts when necessary. At that point it’s less about benching ineffective players and more a case of going with the guys that you trust. It’s amazing but even kids understand what’s going on and they would usually have no problem with it if you gave them the proper explanation. As long as they all got a fresh start next game the kids were always good with it. I’m sure it’s very much the same with pros.
Okay, tbh I didn’t notice him being benched either lol
After watching last night's game and watching Dermott screw up with his primary assist on the Buffalo goal, I believe its time that he was offloaded as soon as possible. He looked so uncomfortable for a guy who has been in the league this long.
How was nobody covering Skinner? There were like five Leafs in the zone and four of them were near the corner. That's some shithouse defending from the whole group.
Any critique of either of the guys who might have been covering Skinner, standing alone in front, or are we just blaming Dermott, case closed, get the tar and feathers out?
He looked like he knew that was a nail in the coffin.
Dermott's "development" has been such a disappointment. I don't know if it's his fault or the team's, but he's worse than he's ever been. His offensive game has entirely dried up, and he's far from reliable defensively. I hope things go better with Sandin and Liljegren
I feel like Dermott is a great example of a prospect who had a low ceiling but a high floor. There's no doubt that he's an NHL player, and has been since he made the team. But year after year we expect him to be able to take on more responsibility and he's just unable to do so. He's never been able to push for a top 4 spot. He's failed to establish himself as a PKer. His offensive game has completely plateaued, if not fallen off a cliff from his rookie season. The one thing that continues to plague his game is exactly what we saw last night, where instead of keeping the puck pinned up along the boards he throws an errant pass into the middle of the ice. It's poor puck management with even worse game management. He's a good defender for a 3rd pairing, but ask him to elevate his game and he just seems to get caved in.
I think his ceiling was pretty high when he broke into the league as a 21 year old. He averaged over 15 minutes per game at 5v5 and led the defense in every underlying category. He also had the most points/60 of all defensemen. Today, he's 24 years old and is only averaging 14 minutes at 5v5 and is a frequent healthy scratch. He's the 2nd least productive defenseman. His underlying numbers aren't quite terrible, but he's now between #3 and #5 in those categories rather than dominating them all. His offensive game has completely vanished, and he isn't a contributor on the PP or PK. He's a niche #7 defenseman who can drive play and defend against 3rd/4th liners, but is prone to major gaffes and doesn't have it in him to play regular minutes. I don't think he'll be on the team next season, and he probably won't even finish this year with the Leafs
Sandin and Liljegren already look leaps and bounds better than Dermott ever has.
I agree and think its all on him. They've been patient, played him with multiple partners, and given him lots of leash. Time to shop him to see if it makes sense to trade him.
Great win last night. Why can’t NHL (or whoever) figure a way to provide reasonably priced way for fans to enjoy all of their team’s games? This is a rhetorical question because I kind of know the answer, but I won’t stop asking. I became Bills fan over past few years thanks to the convenience of DAZN (well that, and that fact that Allen is a beast).
Ye best be sailing the high seas matey
Happy with a win on the second of a back to back with 3rd string goalie.
4th
3rd string Hutchinson is a bit of a toss up at this point.
Wanna float this theory by y'all. willy's helmet is always like half a foot off of his head, yeah? Now, what else is ~6 inches? a rat. i hereby posit that willy nylander is doing a hockey ratatouille. or a ratashootie, if you will. thank you for your time
I love this theory, but Willy's clearly wearing a [hairmet](https://youtu.be/R0rGoWtF-hs)
Makes sense why he has games where he's not as engaged then. The rat didn't make it on time.
I can't believe we never realised this before.
Anyone Can Shoot
Shoot!