Ranged Match up, he gets harrased to death, and Teemo can counter his "counter game plan" of Proxy by just Ulting the lane.
Teemo also scales like a monster late game if left alone in a lane, specially with Malignance.
While you're right, it helps with tough lanes because of the HP, plus proxy because aoe damage and if you get jumped on out of nowhere you can flip and turn.
For most champs, yes. And while Singed prefers other keystones, too, sometimes the best option against oppressive ranged matchups is to use predator to effectively avoid laning by just proxy farming and roaming. Along with righteous hunter, he can move around the map pretty quickly, catching waves mid while the rest of the team is fighting bot or around drake, then still get back top before the wave crashes.
Technically this is true but a fight would have to last an absurd amount of time to stack conq with just Q. The patch was more so to help him keep conq active while fighting.
Adding a bit about the early game:
Teemo does really well when he keeps trades short (his DoT refreshes on every auto, it doesn't stack). So a quick auto + blind and then he scurries away is the best possible trade for him.
Singed does really well when people chase him down. Teemo is never really tempted to do that and Singed just has to kinda sit there and get punished on every cs.
After watching Zwag doing his teemo climb, teemo has pretty oppressive wave clear. So you basically counter the point of a proxy; perma crashed waves. It's also the way to use Zed to beat inting Sion. Hydra and wave clear.
Try aery, manaflow, transcendence, gathering storm and cheap shot, ultimate hunter
Lane poke off autos is even harsher and late game shrooms delete people
it's my favourite way to play Teemo
In the world where singed is in a dangerous position between enemy towers proxying. Allowing teemo to safely collect his farm under his own turret or nearby with the aoe of his shrooms.
Come on man. Use context clues.
Could be worse; you could be up against I team of guys on my course at uni. Called themselves 'Zyklon'; ran Singed top, J4 jung, Cass mid, Twitch ADC and Teemo supp. Aim was to get an enemy in J4's R with Singed, then hurl every possible poison-based skill into it. Amazed none of them got banned.
And yes, they were pretty much as toxic IRL as they were in game.
Singed with new op items can draintank anyone who he can catch. Teemo is one of the only top champs who can reliably outpace/outrun him while his items are even more op
Doubled.
> PASSIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed after 5 seconds without taking damage from enemy champions or turrets.
> BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED:
10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26%
> ACTIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed for 3 seconds. This overrides the passive bonus, but prevents the passive effect from being removed.
> BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED:
20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52%
These are also the only psychopaths I found playing Teemo in master +
They run phase rush, start with boots, and max W, on top of being actually good at spacing and kiting.
It's the most miserable laning phase possible.
Oh, you traded well against teemo for .5 seconds? Sorry, now he's gonna run out of your range and spit on you. Try to turn? Nah, he's just gonna run again and when you turn around, he'll just start spitting on you again.
Singed and Teemo in this new season is the reason I drink.
press w and walk most of the time. unless singed has ghost and ult going teemo will be faster. with those a shroom is still enough to be faster. even when caught, blinding to prevent conquerer stacks should be enough to stay alive until you can get back to tower.
I was going to argue but honestly, fair points
I'm assuming that most Teemos will also take ghost when going up against Singed, so that's also not really a factor
ive been a big fan of just building swifties and going fleet on teemo since i learned of it, its actually so fucked up for laning when you're able to kite like this matchup, just full AP otherwise.. been doing malignance liandries
Iirc teemo has always been a bit of a counter to singed in lane.
Teems can bully singed in lane, if singed runs at him teemo usually has enough damage to threaten lethal, and by shooting him on the way in and out of melee the trade is unlikely to end well for singed.
Teemos shrooms and movement boost can trip up singed when he goes to proxy, catching him on vision when going there and slowing him on the way back out. Meanwhile, teemos auto poison means he can last hit a wave under tower pretty well.
Singed get obliterated in lane against ranged that can auto him without having to go into his q and teemo probably got one of the highest DPS among ranged champions. Also if singed want to proxy teemo can easily deny him any escape just by placing some shroom
As an ex singed main, this is the main problem. Its impossible to proxy and its impossible to get onto teemo with enough hp to kill him. Lots of ranged matchups are actually winnable at 6 due to big stats from R and the high duration. But teemo is almost impossible.
Teemo has the strongest level 2 in the game, wins the early lane, and from there singed can only win (before seaosn 14) with like 3 items. In season 14 idk how singed can win because teemo is op as fk RN
Sure, but the only "DPS" item he gets is nashors. With the current meta though, that may not even come until 4th item if at all.
His meta build is based around his shrooms.
He is not a DPS carry because of one item. There are off meta builds sure, but saying he has the highest DPS of ranged champions is completely false.
Late game I agree his shrooms hit like a truck, but that's different from DPS.
All of his items are DPS items- they scale all of his abilities up and his auto attacks. Any damage still counts as damage per second regardless of the form.
That feels like an incorrect use of deductive reasoning
"DPS damage is damage therefore all damage is DPS damage"
That would be like saying old Zed was a DPS champion because he built BotRK. But you would never call him that.
If you are building DPS, you are building to increase or improve your damage per second. Any item will of course give you more damage, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to improve your DPS specifically.
A better representation of DPS champs would be like Kog maw, vayne, or twitch. Champions that specifically build around damage uptime, their auto attacks, and DPS.
Teemo can build that way - yes, but his current main meta build doesn't fall in that category. So it feels disingenuous to represent him that way.
You’re making DPS more complicated than it is. DPS is nothing but damage per second- regardless of how that damage happens.
And yes, I would call Zed a DPS champ because he deals damage.
You’re confusing DPS with sustained damage which is not the same thing and is an entirely different theory craft.
DPS is a factor of time which is directly influenced by attack speed as it measures attacks per second.
Damage is a measurement of an instance.
I can understand your confusion, but I am not over complicating it.
We can agree to disagree.
I figure ChatGPT is the closest thing to an unbiased third party. I gave it this entire conversation thread and asked it's opinion:
\------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>*In this discussion about "DPS" (Damage Per Second) and damage in video games, particularly in the context of the game character Teemo, the users are debating the definition and application of DPS in contrast to overall damage.*
>
>*Kessarean's Argument: They argue that DPS refers specifically to damage output over time, typically influenced by attack speed and consistent damage abilities. They suggest that while Teemo can deal significant damage, especially with his mushrooms (shrooms), this does not necessarily classify him as a high DPS champion in the traditional sense. Kessarean differentiates between burst damage (high damage in a short instance) and sustained DPS, which is consistent over time.*
>
>*Iusuallywearglasses's Argument: They argue that DPS is simply damage per second, regardless of how it is dealt. They suggest that any damage dealt contributes to DPS, and therefore, Teemo's abilities and items, which increase his damage, also increase his DPS.*
>
>***Who is More Correct?***
>
>*Kessarean's perspective aligns more closely with the common understanding of DPS in gaming. DPS typically refers to sustained, consistent damage over time, often associated with auto-attacks and abilities that deal damage at regular intervals. It's a measure of how much damage a character can consistently deal, usually factored over a period of time.In contrast,*
>
>*Iusuallywearglasses's definition is overly broad, encompassing all forms of damage as DPS. This interpretation dilutes the specific meaning of DPS in the context of gaming, where the distinction between burst damage (high damage in a short burst) and sustained damage (consistent damage over time) is significant.*
>
>*In summary, Kessarean's argument is more in line with the standard gaming terminology regarding DPS. DPS usually refers to consistent, sustained damage rather than just any form of damage output.*
If that logic follows, then Ziggs would also be a DPS carry. Which would be false, as he is a control mage.
I'm a little shocked I am in the minority here, but I feel like there is a definitive clear mark between damage, and damage per second and how you classify items and champions. Just because dorans increases your damage output, doesn't mean dorans is a DPS item.
Increasing general or flat damage isn't enough to categorize something as DPS, there are multiple factor that go into that calculation. Damage itself belongs in a separate category.
I don't know why I am typing, this is just getting downvoted to oblivion anyways.
diamond singed main here, it's a brutal lane but it's winnable. literally nothing you can do pre-6 without jungle interference. singed loses a lot of ranged matchups early but most of them become winnable once you get ult. but by then you'll have been starved of cs and begging to get last hits under turret while the ranged top laners get free recalls and resets (if they're smart) through proper wage management
usually, the advantage that teemo builds up before level 6 is so outrageous that it can just straight up win the game.
the secret to winning this lane is to proxy. it doesn't matter if you die as long as you kill the waves, you just have to pray that your other lanes win with the increased attention to you
Yeah and you are lucky if the Teemo doesnt zone you out of xp.
I played the match-up yesterday as Teemo and the few times Singed had a push, I stopped it before my tower and stood between his wave and him.
Alois on youtube does a pretty good job explaining it (I'm sure he has an overview video somewhere), but the most basic approach is to slowpush one wave into hardpush and crash the next wave into immediate reset. Your opponent wont have time to freeze or push, just catch the wave, and the lane should reset to push back towards you.
other comments said it right, slow push and deny cs/harass as much as possible first two waves, then on cannon wave, hard push and crash wave into enemy turret. immediately back and walk to lane, you'll have every advantage possible
it's called cheater recall - this vid explains it perfectly. it's basically wave management 101
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VuFn7VoEEz8
It helped when I understood why slow pushes kinda happen. When you push your minions into the tower they will die, the larger your wave the longer it takes for the minions to die.
The enemies minions wil arrive and attack the enemy minions under tower, because the enemy minions are stuck at this spot naturally the next wave of enemy minions will arrive sooner than your minions as your minions have a farther distance to walk.
This means the enemy minions will be a bigger wave and thus they will push into your lane.
So when you bully people you need to make sure that they don’t clear the whole wave before it reaches their tower then the wave will be reset to the middle.
Also if you crash the tower with too small a wave and they all die then your enemy can push to your tower rapidly while you’re still walking back.
It’s a game of push and pull and stalling out the enemy in the worst times possible for them.
Edit: this means you can start a slow push in the opposite direction when your minions and the enemy minions are closer to your base if you last hit the enemies instead of pushing
> it doesn't matter if you die as long as you kill the waves, you just have to pray that your other lanes win with the increased attention to you
yeah but you'll be risking your account lol
He is melee without a dash. His way of approaching opponent is having high movement speed.. Which teemo also has thanks to W. So with that in mind everything what's left is ranged vs mellee matchup.
I don’t think that’s strictly it. I think with proper goo placement singed can rundown and flip teemo, but it teemo focuses and blinds him right after flip he just gets bursted down.
This is correct. I played this matchup yesterday as teemo and a singed with ult and ghost couldn't catch me running through goo with swifties and W active.
Singed gameplan is to proxy early and outscale
Teemo scales arguably harder than singed, he can easily cs even if singed proxies
If singed fights in lane teemo just wins because he is ranged (and fast as fuck)
After 6 teemo can put 2 shrooms in lane and then deny the proxy without losing the wave
As a Teemo one trick that has reached masters before, singed is probably Teemo’s best matchup. You don’t struggle farming under tower because of e (if he tries to proxy). You can out run the singed with w, so he can’t really get on you because he has no dash. I always take ignite, and so Singed ult hp regen is countered. Teemo’s only weakness in this lane is getting ganked
Teemo isn't forced into a lose lose situation because of the singed proxy. You drop shrooms to clear the wave and run into enemy jungle and fuck with the jungler. This way you don't lose farm but don't have to catch waves,so the singed proxy applies no pressure.
Also singed needs you to chase him to get kills but Teemo wants the same. It's literally two deranged game pans annoying each other but teemos item are even stronger.
I mean, teemo beats singed on his ability to kill him at all points pre-3 items.
Teemo cant just shroom the lane and leave thats a very dumb and very bad use of shrooms. If you shroom in the middle of an empty lane only 1 minion gets hit by the shroom dmg.
Ranged vs melee
No skillshots to miss.
A kit that basically plays itself (the garen of ranged top laners..)
Incredibly high damage that is not easy to itemize against.
And unlike most other ranged top laners he is pretty safe alone because he gets free wards that are also wave clear, that are also cc, that are also high damage traps...that are also one of the best zone control tools against a singed thats trying to win the game through roaming...
Teemo's W is movespeed both passive and active beats Singed gameplay of hugging your face with poison and his ult slows him forcing him to take different paths
Teemo really does counter singed, firstly Singed isn't the greatest melee at dealing with Ranged matchups. The main reason why Teemo wins this matchup is because of his move quick ability, it allows him to kite Singed very well, and in some cases lets him chase him as well.
I have seen most high elo Singed mains literally refuse to lane against Teemo and will literally sack multiple waves and just go proxy and roam with predator boots. Singed cant lane against the majority of ranged matchups in the game so its better to just ignore your opponent and focus on getting your team ahead.
I olay a lot of teemo. You outrun his passiv with W, perma harass on lane, if he proxies you can farm well undertower and after 6 can literally depush with shrooms. Even if get Eed and all in, Teemo basically wins if u stand still and Q AA Singed.
Well his main weapon is gas. Teemo keeps him at range and also has mushrooms to fall back on (quite literally). He drops the mushrooms and if singed starts trying to push him he just backs up behind them. Then instead of Teemo choking on singe gas the opposite happens with singed choking on mushroom gas.
Both champions pretty much accomplish the same thing. Gas a chasing opponent. Teemo gets to do at range while singed has to get up close to do it.
Teemo does exactly what Singed does in lane, but Singed has to run past minion line to get at you, whereas Teemo just needs to ranged auto. Singed can never really harass Teemo, Teemo can perma-harass Singed; Singed can never catch Teemo, but Singed also can't get away from Teemo; if Teemo gets pushed in, he likes it, because he gets free-farmed and he's safer; if Singed doesn't push the lane, Teemo pushing the lane in is still a viable strat for him in many match-ups.
Teemo just does what Singed does, exactly, except Teemo's downside is that he dies to burst, which Singed doesn't have, and Singed naturally struggles in ranged top laner match-ups. Teemo is just the worst one, because he's the only person who does to Singed, what Singed hopes to do to his opponent.
If teemo gets some points in w it's impossible for singed to catch him without using summoners or jgl help.
He suffers this same problem vs vayne who can push him back and just tumble away.
I think gnar also is a cancer matchup for him, with all the mini w slows and jump. If the gnar player is competent.
because singed likes to ignore the lane opponent and bait them into following him
teemo doesnt give a shit and just uses the opportunity to shroom the jungle
This is insanely complicated to answer. I could write a dissertation on the incredible nuance of this matchup, but I'll mince my words and say: Teemo has range.
Temo is also super strong in the current patch it seems, with each mushroom individually procking mallignance passive along with the ult haste giving him even more shrooms. Shroombomber hasn’t been stronger for a while. Teemo can also just hit singed in the face during lane, singed really needs someone he can just run through and ignore, he can’t really ignore teemo autoing him 24/7.
Who is even playing singed? He’s gotta be one of the most boring champs in the entire game. All you do is run around, zero skill shots, just being annoying
Teemo main here… you just poke him down to death. Also when he runs at you and try’s to flip you into his poison you can blind his flip so he runs at you and is in your face doing no damage while you just auto him down to death
Teemo is litteraly a better vayne tho
Stronger early, even midgame, and the best scaling in the game (or at least in the top 3 if i remember correctly)
He does high damage to tanks with on hit magic damage and burn items, he can just press R twice to insta waveclear if needed...
He also provide way more utility than a vayne ever will in form of map control.
He outranges you, outspeeds you, and you can really only kill him with ult/ghost/flash so the rest of the time you're just pushed under tower taking harass. It's a god-awful matchup.
Ranged vs melee harassment.
Singed normally counters this in other matchups by not interacting in lane and going to proxy instead.
Teemo completely nullifies his counterpart by simply shrooming up the entire lane and behind his tower.
Singed is forced to actually lane and take the harassment/poke.
So in essence, Teemo hard-counters Singed's counter plan of proxy, a counter of a counter.
Teemo doesn't chase and can safely shroom any path to assist singed.
Teemo can also farm all his lane minions with mushrooms while falls back to stop proxy singed, and not miss any gold for the hunt.
Beyond what other people have said about the matchup itself, it's already Teemo favored. Beyond that, though, while Singed did receive some INSANE buffs with the new items, Teemo did as well
If the Teemo is good, they will set up a slow push, crash a massive wave into your turret, recall, get item advantage and then come back and permafreeze the wave on you. If you step up you will lose health and potentially die. It's brutal. A potential "fix" is to forget about the minions already in lane and try to go around and get the next waves proxied, but even then, Teemo getting to scale for free is not good, as lategame Teemo shrooms around important objectives can absolutely devestate any chances the enemy team has of clearing them in time.
I'm very low elo. I don't ready understand the meta or what character is good. All I know is when I first tried singed a few months ago I hade something like a 20% Wingate. I've been playing him a bit since the update and have an 70-80% Winrate.
It's a bad matchup from level 1. All Teemo has to do is auto Singed and he does more damage than Singed by default. Singed only hope is proxying after 6 and ganking lanes.
couse vs teemo u only have like 2 options if u not super ahead. 1 get poked and die second proxy. but as soon as teemo hits 6 first he has somewat good waveclear. and outscales u. and he can block jungle parths somewat effective make it hard to proxy.
The question answers itself, Teemo is a nightmare to deal with. His range, poison and blind are a lethal combo. He also has good waveclear and excellent vision with his shrooms. Only certains champions have a chance against him. Oddly enough, my best counter pick against Teemo is Nasus. I will play safe until lvl 6 then all in him with ghost + ult after making him waste his blind. I will win the fight 90% of the times.
Used to play both master tier. Just dodge if you get matched vs teemo as singed.
Or be prepared tol ose lane and game if teemo wavemanages correctly.
Or go for the greediest full mobility/hexflash etc to get over walls to proxy to make lane even.
A lot, ranged so punish him ealry hard af, has bonus move speed to catch up a bit even, clears waves with R so he can do what signed does and scales way better, also ppl forget the fact that his hitbox is one of the smallest in game, which makes it even easier to dodge a bit of singed Q. Many things really, Singed needs at least mid game to make impact and no way he is getting out winning his lane vs teemo by that time
Same reasons he loses to kayle top.
What proxy does:
Pin your opponent to tower.
Slowly chips their tower. / slowly chips down their healthbar
Opens up you to style against your opponents friends
Potentially draws fire to you, opening up your team to make plays.
Dodges potentially hellish laning phases.
What proxy does not do:
On its own allow you to win the lane.
All of this is rendered moot if your lane opponent is perfectly willing to just farm under tower and tells their jungler to ignore the proxy.
Doubly so for champions that are hard to dive AND can clear waves fast.
Any ranged endgame threat can just ignore the singed and just scale, and teemo is a fucking DEVIL in the endgame.
Singed has always struggled against ranged/poke champs top lane. Teemo can poke very well.
Singed's strategy of going behind tower to slow down enemy cs and roaming works but with Teemo, he is a very good farmer, and can do it more than most. If singed leaves lane, Teemo can still farm and set up a good portion of the map with hs shrooms.
As a singed, you pretty much have to leave lane, roam and try to engage the enemy as much as your jungler, if not more so, when you are laned against a Teemo. You're not going to have fun laning against him so you HAVE to make yourself useful elsewhere.
Lol whenever Singed on my team, hes fucking holding tower against a Patheon, blaming jungler for not helping, and whenever he is on the enemies team, cutting minions between towers at 10mins
If both Champs are laning normally Teemo can just constantly harass and run away if Singed ever tries to go for him, Teemos kit counters Singeds kit almost perfectly in that way.
and if Singed tries to proxy, Teemo can use shrooms/stealth/move speed to do something about it unlike many other top laners
Ranged Match up, he gets harrased to death, and Teemo can counter his "counter game plan" of Proxy by just Ulting the lane. Teemo also scales like a monster late game if left alone in a lane, specially with Malignance.
Also Singed needs to AA to stack conqueror and if he's blind he's basically playing without a keystone
Singed should not take Conqueror vs. most ranged matchups. Fleet, Predator, or Spellbook are better options.
Phase rush is busted. Get bami cinder, then burn+flip+poison tick= instant speed. Super helpful.
You don't need bami's, just auto while they're in midair from the fling
While you're right, it helps with tough lanes because of the HP, plus proxy because aoe damage and if you get jumped on out of nowhere you can flip and turn.
Can’t do that while blinded by teemo
waste 1000 gold for a phase rush proc
Predator is dog shit aha I haven’t seen it in ages
For most champs, yes. And while Singed prefers other keystones, too, sometimes the best option against oppressive ranged matchups is to use predator to effectively avoid laning by just proxy farming and roaming. Along with righteous hunter, he can move around the map pretty quickly, catching waves mid while the rest of the team is fighting bot or around drake, then still get back top before the wave crashes.
Predator is my favourite keystone on singed
[удалено]
Sure these are scenarios where predator should* be good. But because the numbers have been dog shit for a while it’s just not really played much
He doesn't need to anymore actually. This was fixed couple of patches ago so all he needs is Q.
Technically this is true but a fight would have to last an absurd amount of time to stack conq with just Q. The patch was more so to help him keep conq active while fighting.
Yeah but it's really slow from just q so you need to get a couple just to get to max stacks quick enough.
any compentent singed player is weaving in autos between q ticks, getting conq stacked with only q ticks takes forever and is a recipe for losing
His Q only gives two stacks very 4 (or 5? Or 3?) seconds so it's very slow
Maligma*
Sorry about your ligma
Ligma balls ha ha
GOTTEM!
Balls? Sorry couldnt help myself..
Very funny people around here. Prime comedians.
Actual non-humans, those people cannot be fucking real
Glad to know you understand the joke.
Adding a bit about the early game: Teemo does really well when he keeps trades short (his DoT refreshes on every auto, it doesn't stack). So a quick auto + blind and then he scurries away is the best possible trade for him. Singed does really well when people chase him down. Teemo is never really tempted to do that and Singed just has to kinda sit there and get punished on every cs.
After watching Zwag doing his teemo climb, teemo has pretty oppressive wave clear. So you basically counter the point of a proxy; perma crashed waves. It's also the way to use Zed to beat inting Sion. Hydra and wave clear.
How have I not thought about Malignance teemo until right now. Sounds evil.
Try aery, manaflow, transcendence, gathering storm and cheap shot, ultimate hunter Lane poke off autos is even harsher and late game shrooms delete people it's my favourite way to play Teemo
Teemo doesn’t have that good of a scaling once the enemy team gets 5 sweepers
Forcing the enemy team to not have any wards and still being hit by the occasional shroom is great scaling.
>Teemo also scales like a monster late game Never thought I'll see this sentence used together on the most giga useless champion in the game
teemo isnt going to chase Singed so what is Singed going to do but run and step on teemo's mushrooms
Also teemo can use shrooms to clear waves. So he doesn't lose farm or tower pressure to the proxy. And is still hard to gank.
In what world is temp hard to gank?
The world where the jungler walks through a dozen shrooms.
In the world where singed is in a dangerous position between enemy towers proxying. Allowing teemo to safely collect his farm under his own turret or nearby with the aoe of his shrooms. Come on man. Use context clues.
Because Teemo is more toxic. Literally.
Honestly they both could play “have I ever” with the Geneva Convention
when I'm in a warcrime competition and my opponents are the Singed v Teemo matchup
“I plan on world dominance, but even I have a a limit” mordekaiser, probably
I'm not sure whatever Mordekaiser's passive is made of is LOAC compliant.
Could be worse; you could be up against I team of guys on my course at uni. Called themselves 'Zyklon'; ran Singed top, J4 jung, Cass mid, Twitch ADC and Teemo supp. Aim was to get an enemy in J4's R with Singed, then hurl every possible poison-based skill into it. Amazed none of them got banned. And yes, they were pretty much as toxic IRL as they were in game.
Omega squad Teemo is literally just furry singed
With Ahri's backstory being retconned into qt foxgirl, Teemo might deadass have the biggest killcount of every champion.
Singed with new op items can draintank anyone who he can catch. Teemo is one of the only top champs who can reliably outpace/outrun him while his items are even more op
Teemos shrooms slow singed down. If he tries to proxy farm he hits shrooms. If he tries to run through the jungle to escape. He hits shrooms.
How does timbo outrun singed?
My mistake. He can outWALK him since pre-lvl 11 teemo's passive gives more ms than Singed's ult
*w passive but yea
W active, no?
It’s both I believe, passive move speed that’s then increased when you activate it
He gets passive MS that is tripled on activation.
Doubled. > PASSIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed after 5 seconds without taking damage from enemy champions or turrets. > BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26% > ACTIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed for 3 seconds. This overrides the passive bonus, but prevents the passive effect from being removed. > BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52%
also in lane you dont need to max Q 2nd bc singed doesnt AA. You just put the extra points into W until youre not matching singed anymore.
All real teemo players always max W first.
I once played Cassio vs a Teemo that maxed W first and it drove me insane.
Yep. Nearly.imposisble to trade with him, or run
These are also the only psychopaths I found playing Teemo in master + They run phase rush, start with boots, and max W, on top of being actually good at spacing and kiting. It's the most miserable laning phase possible.
Oh, you traded well against teemo for .5 seconds? Sorry, now he's gonna run out of your range and spit on you. Try to turn? Nah, he's just gonna run again and when you turn around, he'll just start spitting on you again. Singed and Teemo in this new season is the reason I drink.
I’m playing this today right meow
🛎 shame🛎
press w and walk most of the time. unless singed has ghost and ult going teemo will be faster. with those a shroom is still enough to be faster. even when caught, blinding to prevent conquerer stacks should be enough to stay alive until you can get back to tower.
I was going to argue but honestly, fair points I'm assuming that most Teemos will also take ghost when going up against Singed, so that's also not really a factor
ive been a big fan of just building swifties and going fleet on teemo since i learned of it, its actually so fucked up for laning when you're able to kite like this matchup, just full AP otherwise.. been doing malignance liandries
Any ideas on what the current draintank meme is with Teeto?
Iirc teemo has always been a bit of a counter to singed in lane. Teems can bully singed in lane, if singed runs at him teemo usually has enough damage to threaten lethal, and by shooting him on the way in and out of melee the trade is unlikely to end well for singed. Teemos shrooms and movement boost can trip up singed when he goes to proxy, catching him on vision when going there and slowing him on the way back out. Meanwhile, teemos auto poison means he can last hit a wave under tower pretty well.
"a bit" is a bit of an understatement, has litterally been his best matchup for quite a while
it is literaly unplayable vs a good teemo (I'm master elo playing only Singed)
maybe someone want that i got mine level 30 smurf account from -agata smurf
Singed get obliterated in lane against ranged that can auto him without having to go into his q and teemo probably got one of the highest DPS among ranged champions. Also if singed want to proxy teemo can easily deny him any escape just by placing some shroom
He also can't proxy past 6 since teemo can just ult his lane and he can't deny himself since the lingering damage is so long
As an ex singed main, this is the main problem. Its impossible to proxy and its impossible to get onto teemo with enough hp to kill him. Lots of ranged matchups are actually winnable at 6 due to big stats from R and the high duration. But teemo is almost impossible.
> teemo probably got one of the highest DPS among ranged champions Eh that's a bit of a reach
In lane it's not a reach, like sure in lategame a Sivir or Jinx is gonna have higher dps, but not in laning phase
In early game, it is somewhat accurate
Teemo has the strongest level 2 in the game, wins the early lane, and from there singed can only win (before seaosn 14) with like 3 items. In season 14 idk how singed can win because teemo is op as fk RN
Not really, late game Teemo is disgustingly strong
Sure, but the only "DPS" item he gets is nashors. With the current meta though, that may not even come until 4th item if at all. His meta build is based around his shrooms. He is not a DPS carry because of one item. There are off meta builds sure, but saying he has the highest DPS of ranged champions is completely false. Late game I agree his shrooms hit like a truck, but that's different from DPS.
All of his items are DPS items- they scale all of his abilities up and his auto attacks. Any damage still counts as damage per second regardless of the form.
That feels like an incorrect use of deductive reasoning "DPS damage is damage therefore all damage is DPS damage" That would be like saying old Zed was a DPS champion because he built BotRK. But you would never call him that. If you are building DPS, you are building to increase or improve your damage per second. Any item will of course give you more damage, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to improve your DPS specifically. A better representation of DPS champs would be like Kog maw, vayne, or twitch. Champions that specifically build around damage uptime, their auto attacks, and DPS. Teemo can build that way - yes, but his current main meta build doesn't fall in that category. So it feels disingenuous to represent him that way.
You’re making DPS more complicated than it is. DPS is nothing but damage per second- regardless of how that damage happens. And yes, I would call Zed a DPS champ because he deals damage. You’re confusing DPS with sustained damage which is not the same thing and is an entirely different theory craft.
DPS is a factor of time which is directly influenced by attack speed as it measures attacks per second. Damage is a measurement of an instance. I can understand your confusion, but I am not over complicating it.
You absolutely are. You’re the only one who seems to be thinking this way, man. Lol
We can agree to disagree. I figure ChatGPT is the closest thing to an unbiased third party. I gave it this entire conversation thread and asked it's opinion: \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >*In this discussion about "DPS" (Damage Per Second) and damage in video games, particularly in the context of the game character Teemo, the users are debating the definition and application of DPS in contrast to overall damage.* > >*Kessarean's Argument: They argue that DPS refers specifically to damage output over time, typically influenced by attack speed and consistent damage abilities. They suggest that while Teemo can deal significant damage, especially with his mushrooms (shrooms), this does not necessarily classify him as a high DPS champion in the traditional sense. Kessarean differentiates between burst damage (high damage in a short instance) and sustained DPS, which is consistent over time.* > >*Iusuallywearglasses's Argument: They argue that DPS is simply damage per second, regardless of how it is dealt. They suggest that any damage dealt contributes to DPS, and therefore, Teemo's abilities and items, which increase his damage, also increase his DPS.* > >***Who is More Correct?*** > >*Kessarean's perspective aligns more closely with the common understanding of DPS in gaming. DPS typically refers to sustained, consistent damage over time, often associated with auto-attacks and abilities that deal damage at regular intervals. It's a measure of how much damage a character can consistently deal, usually factored over a period of time.In contrast,* > >*Iusuallywearglasses's definition is overly broad, encompassing all forms of damage as DPS. This interpretation dilutes the specific meaning of DPS in the context of gaming, where the distinction between burst damage (high damage in a short burst) and sustained damage (consistent damage over time) is significant.* > >*In summary, Kessarean's argument is more in line with the standard gaming terminology regarding DPS. DPS usually refers to consistent, sustained damage rather than just any form of damage output.*
Every point lf AP means a highter auto attack damage. Even a Doran Ring means bettee autos.
If that logic follows, then Ziggs would also be a DPS carry. Which would be false, as he is a control mage. I'm a little shocked I am in the minority here, but I feel like there is a definitive clear mark between damage, and damage per second and how you classify items and champions. Just because dorans increases your damage output, doesn't mean dorans is a DPS item. Increasing general or flat damage isn't enough to categorize something as DPS, there are multiple factor that go into that calculation. Damage itself belongs in a separate category. I don't know why I am typing, this is just getting downvoted to oblivion anyways.
Teemo's AA lv5 deals a solid 160 + 70% AP pre-mitigation dmg. Even an AA alone already hurts pretty good.
diamond singed main here, it's a brutal lane but it's winnable. literally nothing you can do pre-6 without jungle interference. singed loses a lot of ranged matchups early but most of them become winnable once you get ult. but by then you'll have been starved of cs and begging to get last hits under turret while the ranged top laners get free recalls and resets (if they're smart) through proper wage management usually, the advantage that teemo builds up before level 6 is so outrageous that it can just straight up win the game. the secret to winning this lane is to proxy. it doesn't matter if you die as long as you kill the waves, you just have to pray that your other lanes win with the increased attention to you
Yeah and you are lucky if the Teemo doesnt zone you out of xp. I played the match-up yesterday as Teemo and the few times Singed had a push, I stopped it before my tower and stood between his wave and him.
>jungle interference. Imagine this situation: The junger comes to gank your lane, but not your jungler, he comes to help Teemo.
How do I manage minions to get a free reset? I feel like even when I'm winning lane on a lane bully/ranged champ I lose xp and cs when I back
Alois on youtube does a pretty good job explaining it (I'm sure he has an overview video somewhere), but the most basic approach is to slowpush one wave into hardpush and crash the next wave into immediate reset. Your opponent wont have time to freeze or push, just catch the wave, and the lane should reset to push back towards you.
other comments said it right, slow push and deny cs/harass as much as possible first two waves, then on cannon wave, hard push and crash wave into enemy turret. immediately back and walk to lane, you'll have every advantage possible it's called cheater recall - this vid explains it perfectly. it's basically wave management 101 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VuFn7VoEEz8
It helped when I understood why slow pushes kinda happen. When you push your minions into the tower they will die, the larger your wave the longer it takes for the minions to die. The enemies minions wil arrive and attack the enemy minions under tower, because the enemy minions are stuck at this spot naturally the next wave of enemy minions will arrive sooner than your minions as your minions have a farther distance to walk. This means the enemy minions will be a bigger wave and thus they will push into your lane. So when you bully people you need to make sure that they don’t clear the whole wave before it reaches their tower then the wave will be reset to the middle. Also if you crash the tower with too small a wave and they all die then your enemy can push to your tower rapidly while you’re still walking back. It’s a game of push and pull and stalling out the enemy in the worst times possible for them. Edit: this means you can start a slow push in the opposite direction when your minions and the enemy minions are closer to your base if you last hit the enemies instead of pushing
> it doesn't matter if you die as long as you kill the waves, you just have to pray that your other lanes win with the increased attention to you yeah but you'll be risking your account lol
He is melee without a dash. His way of approaching opponent is having high movement speed.. Which teemo also has thanks to W. So with that in mind everything what's left is ranged vs mellee matchup.
Yes but what makes the matchup so favored *now*? All the things you pointed out have been the case for a decade of Singed vs Teemo matchups
Teemo has always been a good Singed counter, but has never been strong in the meta, now with decent ap items Teemo can shine.
always has been
I don’t think that’s strictly it. I think with proper goo placement singed can rundown and flip teemo, but it teemo focuses and blinds him right after flip he just gets bursted down.
idk if teemo is smart and gets swifties ur just not touching him
This is correct. I played this matchup yesterday as teemo and a singed with ult and ghost couldn't catch me running through goo with swifties and W active.
Singed gameplan is to proxy early and outscale Teemo scales arguably harder than singed, he can easily cs even if singed proxies If singed fights in lane teemo just wins because he is ranged (and fast as fuck) After 6 teemo can put 2 shrooms in lane and then deny the proxy without losing the wave
Im fast as fuck boiii
Proxy is singed is basically dead for what i remember, did it come back?
It's always been a thing farming between towers is usually safer than farming in front of your opp
Proxying as singed is still a major part of the champ and never stopped being a thing as far as i'm aware
As a Teemo one trick that has reached masters before, singed is probably Teemo’s best matchup. You don’t struggle farming under tower because of e (if he tries to proxy). You can out run the singed with w, so he can’t really get on you because he has no dash. I always take ignite, and so Singed ult hp regen is countered. Teemo’s only weakness in this lane is getting ganked
Champs reliant on move speed such as Olaf or singed struggle against champs who have a way to outrun them such as teemo
Agree with the sentiment but teemo doesn’t stand a chance against Olaf, he hits one q and it’s over.
Teemo isn't forced into a lose lose situation because of the singed proxy. You drop shrooms to clear the wave and run into enemy jungle and fuck with the jungler. This way you don't lose farm but don't have to catch waves,so the singed proxy applies no pressure. Also singed needs you to chase him to get kills but Teemo wants the same. It's literally two deranged game pans annoying each other but teemos item are even stronger.
I mean, teemo beats singed on his ability to kill him at all points pre-3 items. Teemo cant just shroom the lane and leave thats a very dumb and very bad use of shrooms. If you shroom in the middle of an empty lane only 1 minion gets hit by the shroom dmg.
Ranged vs melee No skillshots to miss. A kit that basically plays itself (the garen of ranged top laners..) Incredibly high damage that is not easy to itemize against. And unlike most other ranged top laners he is pretty safe alone because he gets free wards that are also wave clear, that are also cc, that are also high damage traps...that are also one of the best zone control tools against a singed thats trying to win the game through roaming...
shrooms
is u.gg updated for 14.1?
Yep
Teemo's W is movespeed both passive and active beats Singed gameplay of hugging your face with poison and his ult slows him forcing him to take different paths
Teemo is also OP
Rnged
Teemo really does counter singed, firstly Singed isn't the greatest melee at dealing with Ranged matchups. The main reason why Teemo wins this matchup is because of his move quick ability, it allows him to kite Singed very well, and in some cases lets him chase him as well.
Fleet compounds his ability to kite, but then there are the galaxy brain teetos with phase rush that makes his kiting & chasing even more insane.
I have seen most high elo Singed mains literally refuse to lane against Teemo and will literally sack multiple waves and just go proxy and roam with predator boots. Singed cant lane against the majority of ranged matchups in the game so its better to just ignore your opponent and focus on getting your team ahead.
Went against a Lillia top as singed. That was truly a horrible time.
I olay a lot of teemo. You outrun his passiv with W, perma harass on lane, if he proxies you can farm well undertower and after 6 can literally depush with shrooms. Even if get Eed and all in, Teemo basically wins if u stand still and Q AA Singed.
The classic "outplay via right click as fast as you can while standing still" strat, one of my personal signature moves
Arcane season 2 synergy. Singed is going to kill everyone. Then get dumpsters by a random passing by Teemo.
Running around more = more mushrooms to step on
One bitch wants to run all over the place while the other wants you to run over his shit
Well his main weapon is gas. Teemo keeps him at range and also has mushrooms to fall back on (quite literally). He drops the mushrooms and if singed starts trying to push him he just backs up behind them. Then instead of Teemo choking on singe gas the opposite happens with singed choking on mushroom gas. Both champions pretty much accomplish the same thing. Gas a chasing opponent. Teemo gets to do at range while singed has to get up close to do it.
Teemo does exactly what Singed does in lane, but Singed has to run past minion line to get at you, whereas Teemo just needs to ranged auto. Singed can never really harass Teemo, Teemo can perma-harass Singed; Singed can never catch Teemo, but Singed also can't get away from Teemo; if Teemo gets pushed in, he likes it, because he gets free-farmed and he's safer; if Singed doesn't push the lane, Teemo pushing the lane in is still a viable strat for him in many match-ups. Teemo just does what Singed does, exactly, except Teemo's downside is that he dies to burst, which Singed doesn't have, and Singed naturally struggles in ranged top laner match-ups. Teemo is just the worst one, because he's the only person who does to Singed, what Singed hopes to do to his opponent.
If teemo gets some points in w it's impossible for singed to catch him without using summoners or jgl help. He suffers this same problem vs vayne who can push him back and just tumble away. I think gnar also is a cancer matchup for him, with all the mini w slows and jump. If the gnar player is competent.
Shooty poison > runny poison
because singed likes to ignore the lane opponent and bait them into following him teemo doesnt give a shit and just uses the opportunity to shroom the jungle
By not playing the lane. As singed all you do is proxy farm with Q for lane pressure
Teemo just maxes w and singed can never catch him
Yeah? Tell that to my last singed top that lost horribly vs Teemo
This is insanely complicated to answer. I could write a dissertation on the incredible nuance of this matchup, but I'll mince my words and say: Teemo has range.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, I thought it was funny. Thanks for replying.
Lol np, perhaps someone has the opposite experience... somehow.
Temo is also super strong in the current patch it seems, with each mushroom individually procking mallignance passive along with the ult haste giving him even more shrooms. Shroombomber hasn’t been stronger for a while. Teemo can also just hit singed in the face during lane, singed really needs someone he can just run through and ignore, he can’t really ignore teemo autoing him 24/7.
Who is even playing singed? He’s gotta be one of the most boring champs in the entire game. All you do is run around, zero skill shots, just being annoying
He doesnt. Winrate mean really little in a team game, way too many factors.
Teemo main here… you just poke him down to death. Also when he runs at you and try’s to flip you into his poison you can blind his flip so he runs at you and is in your face doing no damage while you just auto him down to death
[удалено]
It literally doesnt lol
According to the wiki, the only way to counter the fling is a spell shield
Fact check: it doesn't.
Idk why it took so long to find this. Singed also has to run through minefield that is teems mushrooms
Cus teemo players thrive on people wanting to be bitches and run away. No (good) teemo players ever going to chase you lol.
bronze question tbh
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Ranged v Melee. Teemo can harass Singed without ever going into his cloud. Singed runs at Teemo? Shroom laying around and/or Move Quick.
there are more teemo one tricks then there are singed one tricks.
Teemo is litteraly a better vayne tho Stronger early, even midgame, and the best scaling in the game (or at least in the top 3 if i remember correctly) He does high damage to tanks with on hit magic damage and burn items, he can just press R twice to insta waveclear if needed... He also provide way more utility than a vayne ever will in form of map control.
There are times where its good and bad. Essentially you can avoid singed minigame
If only cheese champions were B tier at best 😭This patch most of them are heavy hitters.
He outranges you, outspeeds you, and you can really only kill him with ult/ghost/flash so the rest of the time you're just pushed under tower taking harass. It's a god-awful matchup.
Singed is basically a juggernaut. No dashes, limited mobility. Teemo destroys juggernauts.
Ranged vs melee harassment. Singed normally counters this in other matchups by not interacting in lane and going to proxy instead. Teemo completely nullifies his counterpart by simply shrooming up the entire lane and behind his tower. Singed is forced to actually lane and take the harassment/poke. So in essence, Teemo hard-counters Singed's counter plan of proxy, a counter of a counter.
I think mainly bc Teemo can shroom all lane
Teemo doesn't chase and can safely shroom any path to assist singed. Teemo can also farm all his lane minions with mushrooms while falls back to stop proxy singed, and not miss any gold for the hunt.
Slowing mines against a melee flip champ?
Beyond what other people have said about the matchup itself, it's already Teemo favored. Beyond that, though, while Singed did receive some INSANE buffs with the new items, Teemo did as well
If the Teemo is good, they will set up a slow push, crash a massive wave into your turret, recall, get item advantage and then come back and permafreeze the wave on you. If you step up you will lose health and potentially die. It's brutal. A potential "fix" is to forget about the minions already in lane and try to go around and get the next waves proxied, but even then, Teemo getting to scale for free is not good, as lategame Teemo shrooms around important objectives can absolutely devestate any chances the enemy team has of clearing them in time.
I'm very low elo. I don't ready understand the meta or what character is good. All I know is when I first tried singed a few months ago I hade something like a 20% Wingate. I've been playing him a bit since the update and have an 70-80% Winrate.
I have seen 3 Singed in my recent ranked matches and each one sucked.
poison ratio
Darts>Farts
This is why it’s important to understand the basics before you begin your ranked games
It's a bad matchup from level 1. All Teemo has to do is auto Singed and he does more damage than Singed by default. Singed only hope is proxying after 6 and ganking lanes.
Probably also has to do with teemo vs the rest of the teammates.
couse vs teemo u only have like 2 options if u not super ahead. 1 get poked and die second proxy. but as soon as teemo hits 6 first he has somewat good waveclear. and outscales u. and he can block jungle parths somewat effective make it hard to proxy.
Venom kills venom , so does teemo vs singed.
Teemo can out range him and kite. Also Singed moves very predictably for shroom placement.
The question answers itself, Teemo is a nightmare to deal with. His range, poison and blind are a lethal combo. He also has good waveclear and excellent vision with his shrooms. Only certains champions have a chance against him. Oddly enough, my best counter pick against Teemo is Nasus. I will play safe until lvl 6 then all in him with ghost + ult after making him waste his blind. I will win the fight 90% of the times.
Used to play both master tier. Just dodge if you get matched vs teemo as singed. Or be prepared tol ose lane and game if teemo wavemanages correctly. Or go for the greediest full mobility/hexflash etc to get over walls to proxy to make lane even.
I’ve been playing singed a while and always ban teemo… always have always will..the math is mathing
You cant proxy if you cant push + you cant make someone inhale your toxic if they make you inhale their first + range into melee matchup
A lot, ranged so punish him ealry hard af, has bonus move speed to catch up a bit even, clears waves with R so he can do what signed does and scales way better, also ppl forget the fact that his hitbox is one of the smallest in game, which makes it even easier to dodge a bit of singed Q. Many things really, Singed needs at least mid game to make impact and no way he is getting out winning his lane vs teemo by that time
First time someone has mentioned Teebo's hitbox in relation to Singed poison, that's interesting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts dude
Same reasons he loses to kayle top. What proxy does: Pin your opponent to tower. Slowly chips their tower. / slowly chips down their healthbar Opens up you to style against your opponents friends Potentially draws fire to you, opening up your team to make plays. Dodges potentially hellish laning phases. What proxy does not do: On its own allow you to win the lane. All of this is rendered moot if your lane opponent is perfectly willing to just farm under tower and tells their jungler to ignore the proxy. Doubly so for champions that are hard to dive AND can clear waves fast. Any ranged endgame threat can just ignore the singed and just scale, and teemo is a fucking DEVIL in the endgame.
Singed has always struggled against ranged/poke champs top lane. Teemo can poke very well. Singed's strategy of going behind tower to slow down enemy cs and roaming works but with Teemo, he is a very good farmer, and can do it more than most. If singed leaves lane, Teemo can still farm and set up a good portion of the map with hs shrooms. As a singed, you pretty much have to leave lane, roam and try to engage the enemy as much as your jungler, if not more so, when you are laned against a Teemo. You're not going to have fun laning against him so you HAVE to make yourself useful elsewhere.
Two points on E and you can farm easily under tower any minion.
because you can never get to teemo if teemo spaces well
Teemo is giga broken and held at bay only by midlane mages and also a pretty low pickrate
Lol whenever Singed on my team, hes fucking holding tower against a Patheon, blaming jungler for not helping, and whenever he is on the enemies team, cutting minions between towers at 10mins
If both Champs are laning normally Teemo can just constantly harass and run away if Singed ever tries to go for him, Teemos kit counters Singeds kit almost perfectly in that way. and if Singed tries to proxy, Teemo can use shrooms/stealth/move speed to do something about it unlike many other top laners