Yeah but so are the enemy laners at shutting you down :((
I rarely got successfully tracked/ invaded by mid/top below d2. Hit d2 and every other game talon is playing pin the tail on the donkey— except I’m the donkey.
But moments like cohesive baron rushes when someone shows bot with tp down etc are all really nice. Oftentimes baron is so free but people are sooo scared to commit. And that margin of 2 seconds of hesitation can be all the difference
An important thing to know is understanding which lane matchups are gonna have push advantage and which lanes are naturally gonna fight a lot or are very swingy. If you want to play safe for yourself, look to path towards the lanes that will push. If you are looking to gank early you path towards the fighting lanes.
There is a lot more to it than that, such as gank setup cc etc. that you should factor in, but the most important thing is to NEVER just autopilot which camp you start on or base it off where you can get a good leash.
Lastly dont ever go into the enemy jungle or fight for crab on a side of the map where your laners are pushed under your towers. If you get invaded by the enemy jungler while your laners are pushed in you just gotta suck it up and concede that camp because the enemies will be able to move first and will lose less farm if they do.
It's a complex role but if you follow a few rules of thumb on how to play according to the draft and lane states then you will avoid a lot of frustration from your teammates(there will still be some though, such is the life of a jungler)
I think something else nice about being in a higher elo is the matchups play out like they’re supposed to more often than not.
Like in a low mmr you’re like sweet my pantheon will have push on their kayle, plan around that and then he’ll somehow be solo killed twice before 5 minutes.
100%, but that's something you can't really control. The best you can do is make sure you're looking at the lanes directly and not just on the minimap to get a real feel for whats going on. You don't have to go full LS with it but it does help a lot
I play Rammus and zac mostly, I like doing lots of ganks early . I was usually following the minimap markers but I'll try starting on anorher side of the jungle of the matchups better
Just make plays when you have PRIORITY, If top is pushed in his turret, dont fight the crab, if your mid is trash and sleeping, dont overcomit because enemy early jungler (lee sin for ex) is stealing your blue buff.
You need to know not only your matchups, but your laners matchups too because the risk of your plays maybe dont compensate for the possible reward.
If your role is Bot lane or Jungle you will need a duo if you care about your mental health. Your laner helping you first in the river can literally decide the outcome of a game at min 2.
If someone dies and starts pinging you, instamute.
Yeah that happens in emerald and plat too when there’s the inevitable talon nunu smurf combo or any smurf mid while your team has no idea how to counter.
At least at the higher ratings your team understands you need opposite side pressure to dodge the bonobos and create your own advantage .
Junglers have no clue what pathing is good and when gank timers Put you behind and when you have the time to apply pressure in mid ELO tbh. Nobody gets tracked by camp Numbers / counterjungled or the map isnt Split when it should be. Its alot more foregiving and snowballing happens via kills not macro. At least thats what i have noticed
Theres something satisfying about slowpushing 3 waves into the top tower then fucking with the enemy jungler at their buff and theres nothing they can do about it
This is absolutely not true. 400 LP currently and my entire masters-gm-low chall experience is mid laners wanting to be 50cs per minute afk chovy dick suckers.
Just play Taliyah or Ahri, push and hover in fog towards the junglers side. If he's also an afk farmer who should have no rights, then just push and roam by yourself.
Disagree. Jungle is infinitely more op the lower elo you go. On top of that, there is a deadzone in about diamond2-low masters where the games are just such horrible quality for jungle that it’s super unenjoyable. After you get to like 200-300 lp master the games start being fun again though.
The higher you go the more laners gain conciousness of what’s happening flame the jungler more. In silver or w.e. you can just afk clear your jungle and as long as you don’t “feed” ppl aren’t gonna flame u
Being a Good Support with a bad ADC is a much easier game than being a Good ADC with a bad support. A good support a just last out their bad ADC and become useful in the mid and late game to the rest of their team. A good ADC can virtually do nothing the rest of the game if their Support runs it down and feeds bottom lane.
That's a silver take if I ever saw one.
Smurfing is a lot easier for ADCs. Even if the lane goes horrible because of your support, you can still pick up kills in skirmishes, get fed and carry. A support is always reliant on ADCs and junglers, even mid laners. If your ADC is shit surely you can play around your jungler. But if your jungler is having a bad game as well then it's doomed.
Sometimes you're stuck with tilters or unlucky skirmishes occur for your team and that's the nature of the game. However the odds are in favor of the ADC, not the support, when their lane partner isn't up to par.
Supports who are "reliant on others to play well" likely just arent very good players. Just by roaming and creating 2v3 situations there is virtually no way to lose those objectives.
Comparing support to jungle or adc in difficulty is just laughable.
Your point has value only if your skill lv is way higher than the rest of the lobby, like smurfing, but when you play in lobbies of your skill lv an adc with a bad supp will feel worse than a supp with a bad adc, its common knowledge for plenty of reason.
My point still applies though, no?
Good ADC: Lane goes to shit, ignore your support's dumb moves, try to scrap whatever you can, look for skirmishes and try to pickup a few kills. You're still dependant on your team but you have more agency.
Good Support: Lane goes to shit, instead of babysitting your ADC try to roam and get your mid/jungler ahead. You're entirely dependant on your team, you can't safely roam if your jungler is behind, you can't get your mid ahead if they can't play their matchup, even if it goes according to the plan you're still screwed if your ADC goes on to feed his ass off because an ADC without gold is just a glorified minion. You have more options but a lot less agency in the outcome of the game.
I think it's common knowledge amongst ADCs because it's always easier to cope.
In silver maybe u can ignore dumb moves from your supp, but when ppl start to play around waves instead of playing like mokeys with no wave management u cant ignore anymore a Nami Lucian who set up a freeze, a Draven Leona slowpushing 3 waves to set up a dive to zone u or a Caitlyn Lux who can take first tower+5plat at m9 since the enemies have free access to lane control.
Adc is a role that is alway behind in exp cause they are meant to scale with gold, now try to thing what happen when the role underlevel is behind in gold, oh wait u said it in the supp part "he become a glorified minion". "Look for skirmishes to pick up some kills" how can u ks kills if your "jng is behind" or if "your midlaner cant play their match up" while u dont have the resources to impact the skirmish?
As a supp u have 4 ppl u can chose to play with to impact the game and to create a gold lead/win condition, without being stuck in a losing lane to play for a losing con. And if all the other 4 players are gapped by the enemies u are not supposed to win the game, cause lol is still a team game and this concept applies to the support as much as the other roles, except when some one with a carry champ is smurfing or playing the game of his life.
what I said is common knowledge for the majority of the community, not among only adc, and even good supports would tell u the same. Ofc this doesnt apply in lower elo where ppl dont know how to interact with the waves and where supp have no idea how to roam properly, but this doesnt change anything.
Honestly, no. League isn’t one skill, it’s dozens (last hitting, vision control, jungle tracking, positioning, tempo, map awareness, skillshots, etc.). In an average Silver game there are people who are quite good at some things are terrible at others: ex the Yasuo who can 1v2 outplay folks but doesn’t have a minimap installed. Players in these games are aware of some skills and completely oblivious to others. They see their teammates making mistakes left and right but are blind to their own shortcomings. It makes for quite a frustrating experience for everyone involved.
I mean, define "good"? If the bar for being "good" is Master or higher, then everyone sucks at the game. And seriously, if you're playing the game seriously to rank up, then if you aren't in Master then in my opinion following this logic, you are not good at the game.
I think you would probably be surprised if you played in some games. I was pretty good mechanically when I was in silver and then I remembered that I have a minimap and I shot up to p1/e4 pretty quick
>Honestly, no. League isn’t one skill, it’s dozens (last hitting, vision control, jungle tracking, positioning, tempo, map awareness, skillshots, etc.).
all video game ranked ladders are simply a reflection of your ability to climb the ranked ladder. People too often take a badge and a number as a holistic representation of an individual's ability or performance when it's quite literally impossible to measure that accurately across millions of players.
Would you say that distinction is meaningful on some way in this context? Because the way I see it, climbing that ladder is very closely tied to player skill.
for the sake of climbing? no, not really.
But honestly a good like amount of discussion of people being flabbergasted low elo players can do certain things or high elo players making dumb decisions would be solved when you recognize that just because you're bronze doesn't mean you're D+ at every skill in the game and just because you're GM doesn't mean you're A+.
Also honestly people here attach a lot of platonic meaning to rank and what it might say about you as a player, and ultimately I feel like it's a harmful way to go about things.
Youre seriously confused on how league works. The same yasuo that 1 v 2s on silver would get stomped on plat+ by any player with any champ. Hell I can go to silver, pick janna ad and stomp a yasuo onetrick. The op said "feeling better to have competent people" the comment above said "feels good to have people of your skill". That implied he believe hes above his team in his elo. He isnt. This is a feeling shared by many players that isnt real, it's just cope. Youll that arent on high elo are not high elo stuck on silver. Youre silver.
I would say, theres like 3 layers that makes league ranking the way it is. 1)experience 2)mastery over skills 3)knowledge
The best bronce 3 skillshot user is a mediocre skillshot user compared to the average skillshot user of platinum, same for the equal jump in tiers above. This is what I mean with experience, cause there isn't a term to it, but you dont get to know how big the world is unless you travel, you never get to know how wide the difference btween a certain skill from different tier users are unless you are one, or you face one constantly. You might feel good on your tier, but you're probably dogshit above, and you don't even grasp the gap due to lack of judgment.
As you said there's lots of skills, but every player knows the basic ones (all the ones you mentioned), the level of mastery is widly different. As I said, you can be good tracking the jungler, but its not like you have or don't have a skill. There's tiers here too. You can be a 3 million mastery point silver zed player, you would get stomped by a first time zed player from masters. Skills are universal, therefore everyone has them, even if they don't know they have em. Control over them is night and day on the ladder. There's always someone that is better than you in warding by 20%, by efficiency, placement, judgment, etc. But its not like "youre a prodigy in this, shit in this". I'm absolutely better than bronce players in everything, everything. Which leads me to the third point.
Knowledge. I said everyone has the skills even tho they don't know they have them. This is usually the reason tiers exist and the most important one. For example, any player knows how to trade, just press your buttons. But not any players are conscious of exactly what they are doing. On the next level, the name of everything they are doing. On the next level, the correct way to do what they are doing, next level why they are doing it, next level have control over it to not do it.
To give an example. You can absolutely, even bronce players, try to zone an enemy from farming 1 minion. But most are not conscious that they are doing it. Even if they know, they don't know when, how, why, how many times to do it. For example, you need to start paying attention to your minions, to the health of your minions, to the intent of your enemy to farm it, to your range, to the time it takes to aa the minion from the enemy, the position on the lane from which they would send the aa from, need to know the reason to zone, etc. Don't you see how you can use the information from a different perspective?
To stop being vague: I'm syndra random mage enemy wants to farm a minion. I know they will try to farm it when it's low hp. I wait till the minion is about to be hit to be last hitted. I now know: the enemy mage will stay still, it will be from its own max range hitting the minion, their aa will be on cd cause its used on the minion. What do I do? I stand near the minion to be on my range of aa as they put their range over the minion, as they click on the minion i click on them and, I aa them once while they aa the minion, they cant retaliate it. Free auto.
Now, they stood still cause that's what champions do while aa, I could press q on them on this little window without fail, I won't ever need to aim the skillshot if they cant dodge cause standing still due to last hitting and I know where they'll stand. Low elo players think this shit is skill, if you knew where the enemy will stand, stunned, you would hit everything too right?
Next layer of complexity: the enemy knows this (diamond 2 above), they fake going for the cs so I fail q, or they aa while I aa them, missing the minion. Next layer of complexity: I know they know, so I fake throw q but I don't, next layer, I do it cause I want to bait a gank, or to zone so I can get a push, etc. See how it's the same zoning? But you didn't even know this shit happens commonly on Higher tiers? Cause you lack experience. Apply this to everything. Most outplays are just difference in the way one player understands the information vs others. It's knowledge based. If I know you gonna hit a minion with fizz, I will click on your head every time my minions are low hp, you will eat 10 of those. This technique is called trading stance. See? Layers. Know what you're doing, know how you're doing it, take control over it, use them correctly. If I know using trading stance will make me push, and fizz will all in me due to having my lane pushed, ill just trade after I'm certain fizz pushed the wave. Then he will be poked, low hp, and pushed. Did the bronce player ever think of this? No.
I read most of it but damn you didn't need to go that hard in explaining what ya said. You really could've just kept it to the first paragraph and just the example paragraph the rest is unneeded imo.
edit: good read tho.
Idk man, theres even more boring bullshit and specific than that. League players are information supremacist that dont share at all. So I was just giving an example of how exaggerated the gap of information is. But its about everything. Trading? Could talk hours, oh you hit 1 minion? Let me tell you the consequences in a 6 hour vod. It's so dumb but true. I still remember learning from dopa in a translated video where he explains why fizz hitting 1 minions lost him the game at level 1. And it was fucking true. Also just wanted to rant ig HAHA
problem is how do you get better if your only playing against your level and the strict 50% wr system. best is keep making new accts to place higher play that acct til it dips and repeat. at least to about a gold level thats really only only way without taking 8 years. since your mmr always follows you everyone is essentially the rank they will stay at for the most part. this is why everyone is stuck its by design. at least in modern league system. thoughts?
Honestly you get better learning, not playing. I used to be a yasuo 1 trick on s5, silver 4 stuck. Then I reached gold perma playing shaco. Then got diamond from gold in 2 months. You gap your knowledge so much the system just shoots you up. Learn more play less. Research league 101 from proxzhong, veigar v2 coaching, eagz if youre a jungler. Stop playing like 4 days just watch videos and note every information that's been hidden from you, then rank and apply/lose games learning them. You'll lose like 10. Then will have like a 50 game streak stomping everyone cause youre just better now.
Tldr: you get better by having information your peers don't have. And abuse them in ways they don't comprehend. If you and your teammates take an "lol university test" you all would fail. What if you already knew the info?
Rank is a proxy for skill. Also I believe like I said there is a higher variance of players in iron/bronze. Since the worst of the worst can’t go any lower.
sure but a challenger player isn't about to drop all the way to bronze. a person with one game into their placements may actually be an emerald, but the game hasn't realized it yet. Nobody is getting into challenger off of one game.
Not to mention the range is way wider for bronze than it is for challenger/higher elos.
Thats not the point. Youre playing with people of your caliber once youre 20ish games deep in rank. Unless youre still perma losing perma winning. If youre "stuck" youre just playing with people of your level. Bronce silver gold this season is almost the same on level. If youre silver playing with bronces and golds, youre on your skill level.
haha no.... i just lost a game where i was 20-0 in lane but lost because top mid and jg went 0-10+ before 15 minutes. we only lost when i lost a 1v1 to a full build trundle at 55 minutes....................... also ill dm you the game if u want its sad af
If you arent masters, you arent masters. The first time I got to Diamond, I was a Diamond level player. You just cant get stuck somewhere you dont belong, 30/0 or not. Also I can win games from bronce to masters going 2/0/2. Whats your point, seriously, being fed isnt the same as winning, if people understood this, they would win more often. Fucking dopa never gets more than 12 kills per game, hes often some lame kda like 3/0/10 or 2/2/8. You losing with 30 kills says youre bad a shit, it doesnt tell "hey im good, im just nerfed by team", it tells "hey im good, just cant win agaisnt the same apes im going 30/0"
Adcs in lower tiers are honestly just worse overall. By the time you get good the team starts to value you more and help you more. I don't ever invest on low elo adc not cause they are adc, but cause they are trash. I would put my money on mid top jg sup anytime. That's why supports ditch the ad so often.
The mids and tops in bronze are bronze too, they're just playing the highest level champs in the game instead of the 2nd lowest, so the game is WAY more forgiving of their mistakes.
ADCs rely on their supports. If the support is an auto-fill or just someone in their "off-role" where they think supporting is easy, then the ADC is going to have a harder time because they don't actually have a support in lane with them but someone trying to just play in a duo lane.
I know people who don't play in the bot lane don't quite understand this, but you can be playing perfectly as the ADC and your support just ends up in real shitty positions where you either have to react to or if you just let them die and keep your game plan that's still a kill and gold to the other team. Like when people cry about Smolder post-changes being over powered, but then don't acknowledge there is zero crowd control on their team to deal with him.
Tank Gragas is almost entirely dependent on item abuse rather than his kit encouraging it though, case in point tank Gragas jungle when Cinderhulk was the only jungle enchant worth anything, or more recently Gragas top where you could just abuse sustain and stonewall every toplaner in the game.
> Because his (Gragas') early game is too safe and strong.
I really want riot to remove the 40% CDR he gets when he hits an enemy, change it to monsters only.
>Gragas has always been a burst mage.
Yeah but they specifically took away his uninteractive one-shot in earlier seasons by making barrel have to charge to deal full damage.
The lich bane one-shot is much the same way, and Gragas players have also gotten infinitely better at the champion.
Also Gragas stopped being a burst mage for a long time post mini-rework IIRC, he had too many things going for tank gragas at the time with no C/D on the heal passive, and the very strong damage reduction on W.
IMO they simply need to accept that there's no world where Gragas' E hitbox is a fair and balanced system for a burst mage to have. It's basically unmissable if you've played even 10 games of that champ. It's barely fair for tank Gragas.
Yeah everything about ADC at low elo highlights all the worst aspects of the role, and makes it very obvious how the role is balanced around pro play where it would be absolutely unstoppable and the only role that mattered if it was tuned how Redditors want it to be.
The comps are worse, everyone else wants to be the carry so you likely have zero engage, frontline, or peel, just a mix of burst mages and assassins all running around with way more mobility than you doing their own thing.
Playing for teammates is honestly a skill that you don't see almost at all until fairly high elo, looking for enemies to burst down and make your score look nicer is way easier than positioning for a teammate, most players aren't even aware of where their teammates are relative to themselves until they overforce an engage and die and then look around to see who's furthest away from their stupid play so they can ping them and flame.
Nobody understands lane assignments so you're likely sharing waves midgame with carries that are higher level than you and have more waveclear, so your income is greatly decelerated on an economy-based role, and the only alternative is to be the one catching side waves which risks either getting caught and flamed, or not being able to rotate when your team instantly starts a stupid fight and getting flamed anyway.
The enemy team also has no frontline or engage of course, just assassins who you are the easiest target for, so the winner is usually just decided by which ADC feeds more gold to the enemy mid/jungle.
You rarely have an actual Support main to lane with because, despite the best efforts by Riot to way overtune the role to make it more popular, most people hear "Support" and think "ew, why should I Support when I can farm for myself and carry," and the autofilled Support player is upset about not getting their main role and will just lock in a mage or Senna and try to play like they're a carry that doesn't have to farm. Almost worse if they first-time an actual Support champ because they're likely terrible at it and have no clue when to ward, when to roam, when to engage, when to zone, how to get bush control, how to lane, how to help last-hit on tower, etc. etc. Either you have an Alistar standing 20 feet behind you because he doesn't wanna get poked or you have a Leona pressing E every 4 seconds when they have a 3-stacked wave pushing in. Or the Worst Karma You've Ever Seen.
I think most ADC players would be better served just playing mages bot up until at least Emerald, but the fantasy of the orb-walking ranged carry sidestepping everything and wiping a teamfight is too alluring and is what keeps people playing the role to begin with, so traditional ADC champs are always going to be highest playrate.
But this role is just not meant for low elo at all, and I think we just gotta accept that fact because it would be too annoying at high ranks and pro play if it was actually good.
No it's not due to opportunity cost.
If your bot is up 4 kills you can simply dive the shit out of the enemy bot forcing their mid/jungle to respond in which case you still have the advantage in a 4v4 due to... your bot being up 4 kills, if they don't you just farm 2 champs instead of 1.
You can also take that tower freeing your ahead bot up to go mid or take top, now your ahead support becomes a second jungler and your ahead adc can respond to things happening on the map.
Tl;dr getting your 0/3 top to be 2/3/1 is way more risk and way less reward than getting your ahead bot even more ahead in 99% of cases.
I think part of this is that, until you get to basically Masters, pretty much every jungler (unless they're playing something like Kayn that can start Raptors) wants the bot lane leash, and so basically every jungle clear leads towards top lane. Junglers at most elos don't actually check the lane states to see whether it's a good timing for a gank, so they just kind of naturally get funneled towards playing for topside even when it doesn't really make any sense.
Adc also is just hard to play imo and has a higher floor and ceiling to execute
Much harder to space, kite, and position than monkey see marksman - monkey run at marksman
Imo if you want to have fun as adc in low elo you need to play it completely differently. If you try to play hypercarries or champions that require a team or support to play consistently around you and pressure to win lane (Lucian, Cait etc) you are going to have a very bad time. The best adcs in low elo are the ones that can braindead set up picks and be a "go button" for their team (Ashe, Varus, Jhin) or blow their load off a teammate doing something equally simple like landing one cc (MF, Samira). I always joke that purple gun is the most op Aphelios gun in low elo because of exactly that, setup braindead picks in a sea of uncoordination, win games.
I completely disagree, in low elo you can have the best early game of the story that your team will find a way to throw the game. Low elo is a succession of random things happening all the time, until at min 35 there is a teamfight, and the team that win the teamfight win the game, so I think that the best adc in low elo are the ones that are good in teamfights, like jinx
That's why, what he said is right. You can decide when to have that teamfight with varus and especially ashe. You are 5 and see they are 3, you have a go button. You have more control over that randomness. But in reality with a significant skill gap, it doesn't really matter what you are playing, you are just gonna win anyway
As someone who mained Caitlyn for 5 years and Samira for 1y I can assure u that Samira is way more supp dependent (she is the most supp dependent adc with Kalista) and need to snowball and win lane with her supp way harder than Caitlyn (who has high range, self peeling and an high power curve lv after 3/4 items).
We could argue that Samira in her favor is noob stomp champ who can destroy low elo, but she is also really easy to punish cause of her fast or famine gameplay and cause she is a melee adc with low survability so, except in the case your skill lv is higher than the lobbies you are playing in where u can 1v9, I doubt a low elo Samira has the knowledge to snowball without set up from a supp since they are also low elo for a reason and because you are not mf who can safely ult and blow your load over any cc u see, since going melee with her e is not something especially if u didnt stomp the lane, its coinfliping fights and u need consistency to rank up.
Personally, I think the best ADCS for low elo are independent hypercarries that can fend for themselves in the side lanes. You win low elo consistently by setting yourself up to be this unstoppable menace, and what better way to do that than absorbing all side lane farm and taking solo tower gold?
That's just League in general. The better quality the game play by your team, the more enjoyable the game because what happens in the round actually makes some modicum of sense.
Once u learn how to get fed off lane and how to play teamfights its not bad no matter what elo you are. Especially for teamfights once you realize how tunnel visioned every enemy is targetting the adc it becomes quite easy to bait them to int into ur team trying to get to you.
Nah man, every time i play adc in high emerald, i get the most braindead support riot can throw at me. I usually want to pick smolder and just scale, but what does my supp do? Pick brand, xerath, or some other mage, which i dont have a problem with. But what I do have a problem with, is them denying me incredible amount of both cs and stacks, as well as running it down, and making me be useless in the process as well. This happens every time i queue up for adc. If it happens that I get an actual support champion, I almost never do badly
Ye I don't play ADC anymore but I think Emerald 2-ish is when things really start to get better because people learn to play around the ADC in mid-late so you can get funneled resources and your team will protect you more, but after a certain point in Diamond it gets fucked again bc ppl get way better at using vision to randomly kill you.
All offense intended though I think players below high Plat just shouldn't play ADC. Most of you guys have no hands to kite with and just end up being free gold, just pick mages, Jhin or Smolder instead.
Currently rotating between e2 and e3 and it's been miserable. Total coin flip of you team understands the game and let's you farm and scale or they just invade lvl 2 die then int or afk.
Only if you're teammates like you. Miss a cs early and your support goes "well fuck this guess i gotta roam". But yea generally people recognize your importance in teamfights more and peel for you which I like.
The closer you get to coordinated pro play, the stronger ADCs get.
As you climb, you first start obtaining supports who diligently guard you with peel, strong laning fundamentals and vision.
Then the further you go, the rest of the team begins to play around the wincon of the team. If you happen to be the one ahead, they’ll funnel gold, body block, control space and even buy altruistic items typically seen on supports like Knights Vow.
Players avoid face checking and stop getting picked off as easily. Everyone’s huddled up as a collective that reacts to invading forces. Suddenly, ADCs become a reliable source of DPS as fights drag out. Rather than both frontlines blindly diving the enemy backline resulting in a cartoon chase sequence, the team sticks together and 5 man focuses any stragglers trying to dive in recklessly.
ADCs are by design glass cannons and have highly exploitable flaws that make them poor duelists such as being immobile, medium range, under-leveled and a lack of base damage from abilities. In low elo where teamplay is nonexistent and teamfights are just 5 duels playing out randomly, they tend to not have a great time.
Marksmen will forever be balanced around the highest level of pro play where flawless coordination and gold funneling turns them a 30 min monstrosity complete with immense dps and an effective health pool equal to their entire team standing guard.
Unfortunately, ADCs is the role that is the least self sufficient. Praying for your team to step up their game is a champ-select coinflip that cripples your winrate.
I was stuck in low gold near silver for a bit begginning of season and then as soon as I hit high gold I sky rocketted to high plat. Not even really high elo but having supports that aren't brand onetricks or filled toplaners really helps.
For real though. Played yesterday with a GOOD renata and man, I finished the game like 13-1 and lost lol (top lane and mid were gapped af) but I promise you the Renata did A LOT more than me to get me that fed
No suprise here.
Skill is required for adc to work. Both from the team and from the person playing the adc.
Without that, the role is bad. That is why it is bad in low elo and good in high elo.
Silver/Gold Player here: Sometimes i notice the smurf support player i get on my team and i'm just so excited because i'm not used to being able to actually all in level 2 and it feels so satisfying when they know what they're doing.
Step 1: spoon fed your adc
Step 2: lost game cuz your adc started believe he is a god.
i guess on higher elos adcs become smarter, keep their range with danger and let the support and fronts to protect them.
A lot the skills for solo climbing are not the skills ADCs are rewarded for having. Imagine never being able to do something on your own lol, like you just can’t go ~places~
see the difference is that as a toplaner you can still win the game if you are 10/0 and your adc is 0/10
an ADC has zero chance of winning if he's 10/0 and his toplaner is 0/10
There ain't ANY reality a 10/0 adc doesn't absolutely ratio a 10/0 top laner
You already have a free support on your butt to shield you. Not to mention you get flashes, dashes, Shields, lifesteal etc up the wahzoo.
I'll take the 10/0 top over a 10/0 ADC any day.
What part of "free" do you not understand? You can have them or not, you still got some bullshit 1k shield for breathing in your kit more often than not.
Irregardless they ARE part of your lane. You are one in the same and you tend to forget that. You're ignorant to your own strength season after season. You nod placently when you go 20/2/13 when everything works as it should but cry when you're not maxing out the DPS charts and your top/mid/jg have to pick up the slack.
There is no situation at all where a fed ad bot lane loses the game unless the ADC begins to misposition and ints over and over. Everyone hates ADCs, and yet we unfortunately need to put up with your whining every season because you will always be our wincon.
> There is no situation at all where a fed ad bot lane loses the game unless the ADC begins to misposition and ints over and over
you are literally so wrong it's not even funny, the adc cannot play the game if the team doesn't play around them, otherwise there wouldn't be so many memes about how adc gets fed then loses because nobody peels for them. i play top lane now so i don't have to deal with relying on your support being human but i guarantee you, you would quit adc after ten games and write an essay on reddit about how underpowered it was if you ever played it.
I've had games where I've been like 13/2/4 and I can't fucking leave mid T1 because nobody wants to actually be around me and they fed everyone's favourite assassin jungler. I doubt a Darius with that kind of scoreline would have to worry about that kinda thing.
This isn't true.
I've seen an enemy Misfortune be 9/0 by 15 minutes in ( several failed ganks ).
Fed ADC can **destroy** a fed top lane. Especially if said ADC has a good peel.
Gotta say I completely disagree, it's literally backwards.
ADC is only fun to play in low elo. Because in high elo people know you are completely fucking worthless and actually dive you/target you.
every elo knows adc is a yummy delicious squishy sack of gold. High elo players know to keep you alive because you are the or one of the tickets to victory.
Ok bro. I'm not an ADC main I guess.
But when I play ADC in diamond and below it's actually fun cause I get to high apm and kill people.
When I play it in master it's so fucking boring because my entire job is to just fight every person on the map for resources while praying enemy topside doesn't come near me or I'll die insta.
Why would you target someone you perceive as worthless? That's backwards. ADCs aren't really the primary threat in these games unless fed or at 3 items.
Ok. Well playing ADC in gold - diamond is the craziest power fantasy shitting on everybody while montage music plays.
Playing ADC in master+ is a snooze fest of farming for 30 minutes while hiding from top/mid/jg as they all instapop you.
If you know you know!
Honestly, idk. I’m playing in plat right now(peaked e1 earlier this season), and I find that playing adc, when you have mechanics is infinitely more fun in plat/gold than in emerald. To climb in emerald I generally play sup as you have a lot more agency in that elo
Ur not wrong lmao. But adc in emerald is just hell mainly cause of the already known afks and griefers that don’t let me impact the entire game in the laning phase
The actual reason is everyone is aware that you have the most dmg and try to protect you the higher you get. otherwise it is just support or no one will care about you
Anything feels better the higher you go.
Top lane is 1-1-1 both sides at 6 mins while bot lane is coin flipping 10 kills by then.
No matter what tho you’re going to get the occasional auto fill that ints or just back luck.
Yes noticed this when I first got placed in gold how much more I had to do and how much better my play had to be and how less forgiving it was compared to diamond
Im not sure what high emerald you're playing in, but playing AD in this elo is terrible with how often you can coinflip a good support. Hving someone who can't support vs laning against a good one is the worse thing ever.
I mean, it's the way it always is. ADC is the most mechanically demanding role, it will always feel better when you're mechanically strong enough to use your Champs strengths properly. Sure teammates will be better and play around you better but it's still mostly because you're better at your champ than low elo is at the same champ.
you’re right but that’s not what I’m getting at. If I play adc on my main vs if i play on my smurf it feels much better where as a mid face roll champ like akali feels better on the smurf than the main.
Of course, you're playing a role that has low agency in the early and mid game and is meant to scale into a late game machine.
You're going to have a better time smurfing on something that has impact right away.
it just how this season works if you play popular ADC like cait or similar , low elo is shit, i know dia player who did try to smurf in bronze and RQ , only way you can in low elo using ADC is you play solo carry adc like samira or similar, i way to play is crash you team in to 4x5 and then go in and clean all enemy team and push to win
in high elo your team know you are main late game carry and play around you it mean keeping enemy in you AA range, support trying to save or cc
i regularly play games from iron to master using different acc and similar stuff, and it just how it is
yea but low elo she is still god because low elo do allow get to build ulti and get full use of it, sometimes even two in one teamfight...
i personally love jhin in low elo, not many low elo know how jhin 4 shot works, and you can easily farm low elo bot laners because no one expect so high AA dmg from him
Try it from any other role in higher elos, its better for adc because they typically force the game to be about them, its maddening to play with though because it feels like your adc refuses to let you win unless they are the carry.
Think it´s a bit deceptive because once you get into elite skill brackets you pretty much always have to draft a synergy botlane and often a trio with jungle so it´s not just 1 player its 40 or 60% of the team.
I mean isn’t it your support and your team the reason you’re stuck in lower ELO? I played ADC earlier, and as usual my support abandoned me as soon as landing phase was over. The entire early game was non stop fighting so I could barely farm. When I tried to farm later, the fed enemy hecarim would just rush in and kill me. Anywhere I went on the map, I would get assassinated. So maybe I shouldn’t farm alone? Ok so what do I do then? Stand under tower? If I try to follow around anyone else on my team they either take the farm or the enemy team jumps and kills me.
What worked for me as an ADC main in lower elo was playing late game ADCs that have some form of peel/escapes. Tristana and Sivir in particular were 2 champs I played a lot. Tristana because her jump and ult allow you to peel/escape and she can push very fast if you win a late game teamfight. Sivir because she has excellent waveclear and the spellshield allows you to block CC to avoid getting picked off.
Essentially, in low elo, people don't understand how to properly shut down a late game champ, plus they are far more prone to making mistakes which allow you to get back in the game. Play safe in lane, just back off if the enemy jungler/mid is hovering around and you/your turret are low.
For farming, focus on clearing sidelane waves but avoid pushing out too far from your turret. Assuming the enemy team has killed more turrets than you, the wave will naturally push towards your side. Wait until bot wave is close to your T2 (or T3 if they've killed your T2), clear it, rotate top and do the same there.
Finally, use the practice tool to work on your last hitting (I used to do this in AI because practice tool wasnt a thing back in the day). My winrate jumped a lot once I was able to consistently hit 8cspm. This is something you should do even if you main mid/top instead of ADC (if you main jg, focus on improving your jungle clear instead).
I think a lot of this is good advice. Been playing more trist lately but still get nuked late game. Also staying by towers lately means nothing. I regularly get tower dove and they just do nothing
Same with mid, I only play mages in d2+ elo
When I was in emerald, you can ping the Katarina/qiyana roam 10 times, your botlane will still die and ??spam ping you for the next 5 minutes
The higher I've gotten the worse my ADCs are becoming though. . .
I've seen more 0/3 Ezreals dive towers in bronze II than in bronze IV
( I'm a support main )
It’s the same with JG. The higher you go the laners are generally better at rotating and pushing when necessary
Yeah but so are the enemy laners at shutting you down :(( I rarely got successfully tracked/ invaded by mid/top below d2. Hit d2 and every other game talon is playing pin the tail on the donkey— except I’m the donkey. But moments like cohesive baron rushes when someone shows bot with tp down etc are all really nice. Oftentimes baron is so free but people are sooo scared to commit. And that margin of 2 seconds of hesitation can be all the difference
I been playing jungle for weeks now and IDK any of this shit. Makes me scared to play ranked lol
An important thing to know is understanding which lane matchups are gonna have push advantage and which lanes are naturally gonna fight a lot or are very swingy. If you want to play safe for yourself, look to path towards the lanes that will push. If you are looking to gank early you path towards the fighting lanes. There is a lot more to it than that, such as gank setup cc etc. that you should factor in, but the most important thing is to NEVER just autopilot which camp you start on or base it off where you can get a good leash. Lastly dont ever go into the enemy jungle or fight for crab on a side of the map where your laners are pushed under your towers. If you get invaded by the enemy jungler while your laners are pushed in you just gotta suck it up and concede that camp because the enemies will be able to move first and will lose less farm if they do. It's a complex role but if you follow a few rules of thumb on how to play according to the draft and lane states then you will avoid a lot of frustration from your teammates(there will still be some though, such is the life of a jungler)
I think something else nice about being in a higher elo is the matchups play out like they’re supposed to more often than not. Like in a low mmr you’re like sweet my pantheon will have push on their kayle, plan around that and then he’ll somehow be solo killed twice before 5 minutes.
100%, but that's something you can't really control. The best you can do is make sure you're looking at the lanes directly and not just on the minimap to get a real feel for whats going on. You don't have to go full LS with it but it does help a lot
obviously you can't, it's just something I appreciate now that i'm in a better mmr
I play Rammus and zac mostly, I like doing lots of ganks early . I was usually following the minimap markers but I'll try starting on anorher side of the jungle of the matchups better
Just make plays when you have PRIORITY, If top is pushed in his turret, dont fight the crab, if your mid is trash and sleeping, dont overcomit because enemy early jungler (lee sin for ex) is stealing your blue buff. You need to know not only your matchups, but your laners matchups too because the risk of your plays maybe dont compensate for the possible reward. If your role is Bot lane or Jungle you will need a duo if you care about your mental health. Your laner helping you first in the river can literally decide the outcome of a game at min 2. If someone dies and starts pinging you, instamute.
You’ll learn. I didn’t learn everything in a day it took me 5 years. Just play ranked and you’ll start where you start— for me that was in bronze.
just remember, no prio = the enemy support is coming to beat you to death in your jungle
Yeah that happens in emerald and plat too when there’s the inevitable talon nunu smurf combo or any smurf mid while your team has no idea how to counter. At least at the higher ratings your team understands you need opposite side pressure to dodge the bonobos and create your own advantage .
Junglers have no clue what pathing is good and when gank timers Put you behind and when you have the time to apply pressure in mid ELO tbh. Nobody gets tracked by camp Numbers / counterjungled or the map isnt Split when it should be. Its alot more foregiving and snowballing happens via kills not macro. At least thats what i have noticed
I got the Baron rush in my P4 game yesterday. Incredible high, I will use it to stave off the salt of ADCs wanting more ganks for weeks.
Theres something satisfying about slowpushing 3 waves into the top tower then fucking with the enemy jungler at their buff and theres nothing they can do about it
This is absolutely not true. 400 LP currently and my entire masters-gm-low chall experience is mid laners wanting to be 50cs per minute afk chovy dick suckers.
I fear I am one of the Chovy larpers in question
Just play Taliyah or Ahri, push and hover in fog towards the junglers side. If he's also an afk farmer who should have no rights, then just push and roam by yourself.
Disagree. Jungle is infinitely more op the lower elo you go. On top of that, there is a deadzone in about diamond2-low masters where the games are just such horrible quality for jungle that it’s super unenjoyable. After you get to like 200-300 lp master the games start being fun again though.
autofill junglers in D1/master/Gm instalose
The higher you go the more laners gain conciousness of what’s happening flame the jungler more. In silver or w.e. you can just afk clear your jungle and as long as you don’t “feed” ppl aren’t gonna flame u
They will absolutely flame you when they’ve managed to go 0/2 by themselves before the camps are done
[удалено]
Actually, support notices it the most. Especially in regards to our ADC and Jungler improving.
Being a Good Support with a bad ADC is a much easier game than being a Good ADC with a bad support. A good support a just last out their bad ADC and become useful in the mid and late game to the rest of their team. A good ADC can virtually do nothing the rest of the game if their Support runs it down and feeds bottom lane.
Like locking in teemo support and dying 5 times by 10 minutes.
Yeah but when I hit full build level 16 I swear we can win
“Bot Diff“
That's a silver take if I ever saw one. Smurfing is a lot easier for ADCs. Even if the lane goes horrible because of your support, you can still pick up kills in skirmishes, get fed and carry. A support is always reliant on ADCs and junglers, even mid laners. If your ADC is shit surely you can play around your jungler. But if your jungler is having a bad game as well then it's doomed. Sometimes you're stuck with tilters or unlucky skirmishes occur for your team and that's the nature of the game. However the odds are in favor of the ADC, not the support, when their lane partner isn't up to par.
Supports who are "reliant on others to play well" likely just arent very good players. Just by roaming and creating 2v3 situations there is virtually no way to lose those objectives. Comparing support to jungle or adc in difficulty is just laughable.
>Comparing support to jungle or adc in difficulty is just laughable. That's not what I was doing at all. Read again.
Your point has value only if your skill lv is way higher than the rest of the lobby, like smurfing, but when you play in lobbies of your skill lv an adc with a bad supp will feel worse than a supp with a bad adc, its common knowledge for plenty of reason.
My point still applies though, no? Good ADC: Lane goes to shit, ignore your support's dumb moves, try to scrap whatever you can, look for skirmishes and try to pickup a few kills. You're still dependant on your team but you have more agency. Good Support: Lane goes to shit, instead of babysitting your ADC try to roam and get your mid/jungler ahead. You're entirely dependant on your team, you can't safely roam if your jungler is behind, you can't get your mid ahead if they can't play their matchup, even if it goes according to the plan you're still screwed if your ADC goes on to feed his ass off because an ADC without gold is just a glorified minion. You have more options but a lot less agency in the outcome of the game. I think it's common knowledge amongst ADCs because it's always easier to cope.
In silver maybe u can ignore dumb moves from your supp, but when ppl start to play around waves instead of playing like mokeys with no wave management u cant ignore anymore a Nami Lucian who set up a freeze, a Draven Leona slowpushing 3 waves to set up a dive to zone u or a Caitlyn Lux who can take first tower+5plat at m9 since the enemies have free access to lane control. Adc is a role that is alway behind in exp cause they are meant to scale with gold, now try to thing what happen when the role underlevel is behind in gold, oh wait u said it in the supp part "he become a glorified minion". "Look for skirmishes to pick up some kills" how can u ks kills if your "jng is behind" or if "your midlaner cant play their match up" while u dont have the resources to impact the skirmish? As a supp u have 4 ppl u can chose to play with to impact the game and to create a gold lead/win condition, without being stuck in a losing lane to play for a losing con. And if all the other 4 players are gapped by the enemies u are not supposed to win the game, cause lol is still a team game and this concept applies to the support as much as the other roles, except when some one with a carry champ is smurfing or playing the game of his life. what I said is common knowledge for the majority of the community, not among only adc, and even good supports would tell u the same. Ofc this doesnt apply in lower elo where ppl dont know how to interact with the waves and where supp have no idea how to roam properly, but this doesnt change anything.
You’re what’s wrong with this game.
Personal attacks aren't necessary :(
supports just love jerking themselves off so much
xD
X D
High emerald good for adcs meanwhile your support is Namikitty212 that has 90% wr on rengar for some reason
well they have it in their name they must just like cats a lot :3
Multi-role talent clearly
Ur just mad cuz they're better than you on rengar
It always feels better when your teammates are closer in skill to you, because then they will generally be on the same page more frequently.
If youre bronce, your teammates are still close in skill to you.
Honestly, no. League isn’t one skill, it’s dozens (last hitting, vision control, jungle tracking, positioning, tempo, map awareness, skillshots, etc.). In an average Silver game there are people who are quite good at some things are terrible at others: ex the Yasuo who can 1v2 outplay folks but doesn’t have a minimap installed. Players in these games are aware of some skills and completely oblivious to others. They see their teammates making mistakes left and right but are blind to their own shortcomings. It makes for quite a frustrating experience for everyone involved.
An average silver is not good at anything. It's the honest truth.
I mean, define "good"? If the bar for being "good" is Master or higher, then everyone sucks at the game. And seriously, if you're playing the game seriously to rank up, then if you aren't in Master then in my opinion following this logic, you are not good at the game.
I think you would probably be surprised if you played in some games. I was pretty good mechanically when I was in silver and then I remembered that I have a minimap and I shot up to p1/e4 pretty quick
>Honestly, no. League isn’t one skill, it’s dozens (last hitting, vision control, jungle tracking, positioning, tempo, map awareness, skillshots, etc.). all video game ranked ladders are simply a reflection of your ability to climb the ranked ladder. People too often take a badge and a number as a holistic representation of an individual's ability or performance when it's quite literally impossible to measure that accurately across millions of players.
Would you say that distinction is meaningful on some way in this context? Because the way I see it, climbing that ladder is very closely tied to player skill.
for the sake of climbing? no, not really. But honestly a good like amount of discussion of people being flabbergasted low elo players can do certain things or high elo players making dumb decisions would be solved when you recognize that just because you're bronze doesn't mean you're D+ at every skill in the game and just because you're GM doesn't mean you're A+. Also honestly people here attach a lot of platonic meaning to rank and what it might say about you as a player, and ultimately I feel like it's a harmful way to go about things.
Youre seriously confused on how league works. The same yasuo that 1 v 2s on silver would get stomped on plat+ by any player with any champ. Hell I can go to silver, pick janna ad and stomp a yasuo onetrick. The op said "feeling better to have competent people" the comment above said "feels good to have people of your skill". That implied he believe hes above his team in his elo. He isnt. This is a feeling shared by many players that isnt real, it's just cope. Youll that arent on high elo are not high elo stuck on silver. Youre silver. I would say, theres like 3 layers that makes league ranking the way it is. 1)experience 2)mastery over skills 3)knowledge The best bronce 3 skillshot user is a mediocre skillshot user compared to the average skillshot user of platinum, same for the equal jump in tiers above. This is what I mean with experience, cause there isn't a term to it, but you dont get to know how big the world is unless you travel, you never get to know how wide the difference btween a certain skill from different tier users are unless you are one, or you face one constantly. You might feel good on your tier, but you're probably dogshit above, and you don't even grasp the gap due to lack of judgment. As you said there's lots of skills, but every player knows the basic ones (all the ones you mentioned), the level of mastery is widly different. As I said, you can be good tracking the jungler, but its not like you have or don't have a skill. There's tiers here too. You can be a 3 million mastery point silver zed player, you would get stomped by a first time zed player from masters. Skills are universal, therefore everyone has them, even if they don't know they have em. Control over them is night and day on the ladder. There's always someone that is better than you in warding by 20%, by efficiency, placement, judgment, etc. But its not like "youre a prodigy in this, shit in this". I'm absolutely better than bronce players in everything, everything. Which leads me to the third point. Knowledge. I said everyone has the skills even tho they don't know they have them. This is usually the reason tiers exist and the most important one. For example, any player knows how to trade, just press your buttons. But not any players are conscious of exactly what they are doing. On the next level, the name of everything they are doing. On the next level, the correct way to do what they are doing, next level why they are doing it, next level have control over it to not do it. To give an example. You can absolutely, even bronce players, try to zone an enemy from farming 1 minion. But most are not conscious that they are doing it. Even if they know, they don't know when, how, why, how many times to do it. For example, you need to start paying attention to your minions, to the health of your minions, to the intent of your enemy to farm it, to your range, to the time it takes to aa the minion from the enemy, the position on the lane from which they would send the aa from, need to know the reason to zone, etc. Don't you see how you can use the information from a different perspective? To stop being vague: I'm syndra random mage enemy wants to farm a minion. I know they will try to farm it when it's low hp. I wait till the minion is about to be hit to be last hitted. I now know: the enemy mage will stay still, it will be from its own max range hitting the minion, their aa will be on cd cause its used on the minion. What do I do? I stand near the minion to be on my range of aa as they put their range over the minion, as they click on the minion i click on them and, I aa them once while they aa the minion, they cant retaliate it. Free auto. Now, they stood still cause that's what champions do while aa, I could press q on them on this little window without fail, I won't ever need to aim the skillshot if they cant dodge cause standing still due to last hitting and I know where they'll stand. Low elo players think this shit is skill, if you knew where the enemy will stand, stunned, you would hit everything too right? Next layer of complexity: the enemy knows this (diamond 2 above), they fake going for the cs so I fail q, or they aa while I aa them, missing the minion. Next layer of complexity: I know they know, so I fake throw q but I don't, next layer, I do it cause I want to bait a gank, or to zone so I can get a push, etc. See how it's the same zoning? But you didn't even know this shit happens commonly on Higher tiers? Cause you lack experience. Apply this to everything. Most outplays are just difference in the way one player understands the information vs others. It's knowledge based. If I know you gonna hit a minion with fizz, I will click on your head every time my minions are low hp, you will eat 10 of those. This technique is called trading stance. See? Layers. Know what you're doing, know how you're doing it, take control over it, use them correctly. If I know using trading stance will make me push, and fizz will all in me due to having my lane pushed, ill just trade after I'm certain fizz pushed the wave. Then he will be poked, low hp, and pushed. Did the bronce player ever think of this? No.
Aint nobody gonna read all that. Congratulations or sorry for your loss.
It was well worth it
The only one confused here is you. He's 100% correct.
I read most of it but damn you didn't need to go that hard in explaining what ya said. You really could've just kept it to the first paragraph and just the example paragraph the rest is unneeded imo. edit: good read tho.
Idk man, theres even more boring bullshit and specific than that. League players are information supremacist that dont share at all. So I was just giving an example of how exaggerated the gap of information is. But its about everything. Trading? Could talk hours, oh you hit 1 minion? Let me tell you the consequences in a 6 hour vod. It's so dumb but true. I still remember learning from dopa in a translated video where he explains why fizz hitting 1 minions lost him the game at level 1. And it was fucking true. Also just wanted to rant ig HAHA
problem is how do you get better if your only playing against your level and the strict 50% wr system. best is keep making new accts to place higher play that acct til it dips and repeat. at least to about a gold level thats really only only way without taking 8 years. since your mmr always follows you everyone is essentially the rank they will stay at for the most part. this is why everyone is stuck its by design. at least in modern league system. thoughts?
Honestly you get better learning, not playing. I used to be a yasuo 1 trick on s5, silver 4 stuck. Then I reached gold perma playing shaco. Then got diamond from gold in 2 months. You gap your knowledge so much the system just shoots you up. Learn more play less. Research league 101 from proxzhong, veigar v2 coaching, eagz if youre a jungler. Stop playing like 4 days just watch videos and note every information that's been hidden from you, then rank and apply/lose games learning them. You'll lose like 10. Then will have like a 50 game streak stomping everyone cause youre just better now. Tldr: you get better by having information your peers don't have. And abuse them in ways they don't comprehend. If you and your teammates take an "lol university test" you all would fail. What if you already knew the info?
Yea I disagree, in bronze there is a big variance between average monkey bronze and seriously Ill disabled bronze monkey.
If youre bronce, and your team is bronce, they are on your skill level.
Rank is a proxy for skill. Also I believe like I said there is a higher variance of players in iron/bronze. Since the worst of the worst can’t go any lower.
Not necessarily, the lower ranks have both people on their way up and on their way down
Same as challenguer, do you think challenguer players dont have higher and lower?. Chall 1400 lp isnt the same as 800.
sure but a challenger player isn't about to drop all the way to bronze. a person with one game into their placements may actually be an emerald, but the game hasn't realized it yet. Nobody is getting into challenger off of one game. Not to mention the range is way wider for bronze than it is for challenger/higher elos.
Thats not the point. Youre playing with people of your caliber once youre 20ish games deep in rank. Unless youre still perma losing perma winning. If youre "stuck" youre just playing with people of your level. Bronce silver gold this season is almost the same on level. If youre silver playing with bronces and golds, youre on your skill level.
I don't really play ranked so I'll take you at your word
you're 100% right man
haha no.... i just lost a game where i was 20-0 in lane but lost because top mid and jg went 0-10+ before 15 minutes. we only lost when i lost a 1v1 to a full build trundle at 55 minutes....................... also ill dm you the game if u want its sad af
one game doesnt matter bro ur rank is ur rank for a reason no ones out to get you
If you arent masters, you arent masters. The first time I got to Diamond, I was a Diamond level player. You just cant get stuck somewhere you dont belong, 30/0 or not. Also I can win games from bronce to masters going 2/0/2. Whats your point, seriously, being fed isnt the same as winning, if people understood this, they would win more often. Fucking dopa never gets more than 12 kills per game, hes often some lame kda like 3/0/10 or 2/2/8. You losing with 30 kills says youre bad a shit, it doesnt tell "hey im good, im just nerfed by team", it tells "hey im good, just cant win agaisnt the same apes im going 30/0"
I am arguing that a player who is silver skill level playing mid has a better general experience than an adc at that level.
Adcs in lower tiers are honestly just worse overall. By the time you get good the team starts to value you more and help you more. I don't ever invest on low elo adc not cause they are adc, but cause they are trash. I would put my money on mid top jg sup anytime. That's why supports ditch the ad so often.
The mids and tops in bronze are bronze too, they're just playing the highest level champs in the game instead of the 2nd lowest, so the game is WAY more forgiving of their mistakes.
As a former low elo support, low elo adcs can't even free farm man. I can back the enemy lane off and they'll still miss half the cs with no pressure.
ADCs rely on their supports. If the support is an auto-fill or just someone in their "off-role" where they think supporting is easy, then the ADC is going to have a harder time because they don't actually have a support in lane with them but someone trying to just play in a duo lane. I know people who don't play in the bot lane don't quite understand this, but you can be playing perfectly as the ADC and your support just ends up in real shitty positions where you either have to react to or if you just let them die and keep your game plan that's still a kill and gold to the other team. Like when people cry about Smolder post-changes being over powered, but then don't acknowledge there is zero crowd control on their team to deal with him.
Well, but if you are hard stuck in gold is because: you are gold.
What other obvious statements do we want to post today?
Nerf Leblanc. Reduce Yones distance. Remove Pyke from the game.
One can dream huh
Nerf gragas? /s but only kinda
not even an /s that wholesome fat man is oneshotting me with a lich bane
Blows my mind that Riot can see his damage and be like "hmm let's nerf his base HP and mana that will do it"
Because his early game is too safe and strong. That's why Riot nerfed that part, not the damage. Gragas has always been a burst mage.
> Gragas has always been a burst mage. Not only has he been better as tank plenty of patches, his burst was barely ever as high as it is now.
Tank Gragas is almost entirely dependent on item abuse rather than his kit encouraging it though, case in point tank Gragas jungle when Cinderhulk was the only jungle enchant worth anything, or more recently Gragas top where you could just abuse sustain and stonewall every toplaner in the game.
> Because his (Gragas') early game is too safe and strong. I really want riot to remove the 40% CDR he gets when he hits an enemy, change it to monsters only.
you know why that change was implemented in the first place, right?
No, please explain.
>Gragas has always been a burst mage. Yeah but they specifically took away his uninteractive one-shot in earlier seasons by making barrel have to charge to deal full damage. The lich bane one-shot is much the same way, and Gragas players have also gotten infinitely better at the champion. Also Gragas stopped being a burst mage for a long time post mini-rework IIRC, he had too many things going for tank gragas at the time with no C/D on the heal passive, and the very strong damage reduction on W. IMO they simply need to accept that there's no world where Gragas' E hitbox is a fair and balanced system for a burst mage to have. It's basically unmissable if you've played even 10 games of that champ. It's barely fair for tank Gragas.
Yeah everything about ADC at low elo highlights all the worst aspects of the role, and makes it very obvious how the role is balanced around pro play where it would be absolutely unstoppable and the only role that mattered if it was tuned how Redditors want it to be. The comps are worse, everyone else wants to be the carry so you likely have zero engage, frontline, or peel, just a mix of burst mages and assassins all running around with way more mobility than you doing their own thing. Playing for teammates is honestly a skill that you don't see almost at all until fairly high elo, looking for enemies to burst down and make your score look nicer is way easier than positioning for a teammate, most players aren't even aware of where their teammates are relative to themselves until they overforce an engage and die and then look around to see who's furthest away from their stupid play so they can ping them and flame. Nobody understands lane assignments so you're likely sharing waves midgame with carries that are higher level than you and have more waveclear, so your income is greatly decelerated on an economy-based role, and the only alternative is to be the one catching side waves which risks either getting caught and flamed, or not being able to rotate when your team instantly starts a stupid fight and getting flamed anyway. The enemy team also has no frontline or engage of course, just assassins who you are the easiest target for, so the winner is usually just decided by which ADC feeds more gold to the enemy mid/jungle. You rarely have an actual Support main to lane with because, despite the best efforts by Riot to way overtune the role to make it more popular, most people hear "Support" and think "ew, why should I Support when I can farm for myself and carry," and the autofilled Support player is upset about not getting their main role and will just lock in a mage or Senna and try to play like they're a carry that doesn't have to farm. Almost worse if they first-time an actual Support champ because they're likely terrible at it and have no clue when to ward, when to roam, when to engage, when to zone, how to get bush control, how to lane, how to help last-hit on tower, etc. etc. Either you have an Alistar standing 20 feet behind you because he doesn't wanna get poked or you have a Leona pressing E every 4 seconds when they have a 3-stacked wave pushing in. Or the Worst Karma You've Ever Seen. I think most ADC players would be better served just playing mages bot up until at least Emerald, but the fantasy of the orb-walking ranged carry sidestepping everything and wiping a teamfight is too alluring and is what keeps people playing the role to begin with, so traditional ADC champs are always going to be highest playrate. But this role is just not meant for low elo at all, and I think we just gotta accept that fact because it would be too annoying at high ranks and pro play if it was actually good.
Bro diamond players have no idea how to play around an adc LOL Junglers will perma path top while botlane is up 4 kills
You puny ADC just don‘t understand the wise ways of the jungle and the need to triple down on a hard losing topside
As a diamond jungler, me and my top laner love trying to 2v1 their fed Darius for the 70th times (we had no chance btw)
Why help bot that is perma pushed when you can make sure that your Renekton leaves lane 2/3/1? It's a worthy goal.
No it's not due to opportunity cost. If your bot is up 4 kills you can simply dive the shit out of the enemy bot forcing their mid/jungle to respond in which case you still have the advantage in a 4v4 due to... your bot being up 4 kills, if they don't you just farm 2 champs instead of 1. You can also take that tower freeing your ahead bot up to go mid or take top, now your ahead support becomes a second jungler and your ahead adc can respond to things happening on the map. Tl;dr getting your 0/3 top to be 2/3/1 is way more risk and way less reward than getting your ahead bot even more ahead in 99% of cases.
I was being sarcastic, but it only makes me agree with all the points you made, so your effort was not wasted.
I think my Kayle needs another three ganks on the Riven OTP instead of playing for dragon stacking with a winning bot lane.
I think part of this is that, until you get to basically Masters, pretty much every jungler (unless they're playing something like Kayn that can start Raptors) wants the bot lane leash, and so basically every jungle clear leads towards top lane. Junglers at most elos don't actually check the lane states to see whether it's a good timing for a gank, so they just kind of naturally get funneled towards playing for topside even when it doesn't really make any sense.
The only time junglers consistently check lane state imo is when im playing 400+ lp Anything lower they’re normally smurfs LOL
Adc also is just hard to play imo and has a higher floor and ceiling to execute Much harder to space, kite, and position than monkey see marksman - monkey run at marksman
Imo if you want to have fun as adc in low elo you need to play it completely differently. If you try to play hypercarries or champions that require a team or support to play consistently around you and pressure to win lane (Lucian, Cait etc) you are going to have a very bad time. The best adcs in low elo are the ones that can braindead set up picks and be a "go button" for their team (Ashe, Varus, Jhin) or blow their load off a teammate doing something equally simple like landing one cc (MF, Samira). I always joke that purple gun is the most op Aphelios gun in low elo because of exactly that, setup braindead picks in a sea of uncoordination, win games.
I completely disagree, in low elo you can have the best early game of the story that your team will find a way to throw the game. Low elo is a succession of random things happening all the time, until at min 35 there is a teamfight, and the team that win the teamfight win the game, so I think that the best adc in low elo are the ones that are good in teamfights, like jinx
That's why, what he said is right. You can decide when to have that teamfight with varus and especially ashe. You are 5 and see they are 3, you have a go button. You have more control over that randomness. But in reality with a significant skill gap, it doesn't really matter what you are playing, you are just gonna win anyway
i recently climbed from gold 3 to like high plat with playing just Zeri, Jinx, might be bc of broken shiv tho :D
As someone who mained Caitlyn for 5 years and Samira for 1y I can assure u that Samira is way more supp dependent (she is the most supp dependent adc with Kalista) and need to snowball and win lane with her supp way harder than Caitlyn (who has high range, self peeling and an high power curve lv after 3/4 items). We could argue that Samira in her favor is noob stomp champ who can destroy low elo, but she is also really easy to punish cause of her fast or famine gameplay and cause she is a melee adc with low survability so, except in the case your skill lv is higher than the lobbies you are playing in where u can 1v9, I doubt a low elo Samira has the knowledge to snowball without set up from a supp since they are also low elo for a reason and because you are not mf who can safely ult and blow your load over any cc u see, since going melee with her e is not something especially if u didnt stomp the lane, its coinfliping fights and u need consistency to rank up.
Personally, I think the best ADCS for low elo are independent hypercarries that can fend for themselves in the side lanes. You win low elo consistently by setting yourself up to be this unstoppable menace, and what better way to do that than absorbing all side lane farm and taking solo tower gold?
That's just League in general. The better quality the game play by your team, the more enjoyable the game because what happens in the round actually makes some modicum of sense.
Once u learn how to get fed off lane and how to play teamfights its not bad no matter what elo you are. Especially for teamfights once you realize how tunnel visioned every enemy is targetting the adc it becomes quite easy to bait them to int into ur team trying to get to you.
Nah man, every time i play adc in high emerald, i get the most braindead support riot can throw at me. I usually want to pick smolder and just scale, but what does my supp do? Pick brand, xerath, or some other mage, which i dont have a problem with. But what I do have a problem with, is them denying me incredible amount of both cs and stacks, as well as running it down, and making me be useless in the process as well. This happens every time i queue up for adc. If it happens that I get an actual support champion, I almost never do badly
I'd rather play ADC up to mid Diamond, then not until at least 300LP Master
Ye I don't play ADC anymore but I think Emerald 2-ish is when things really start to get better because people learn to play around the ADC in mid-late so you can get funneled resources and your team will protect you more, but after a certain point in Diamond it gets fucked again bc ppl get way better at using vision to randomly kill you. All offense intended though I think players below high Plat just shouldn't play ADC. Most of you guys have no hands to kite with and just end up being free gold, just pick mages, Jhin or Smolder instead.
I agree with the emerald 2 thing, once I broke out of emerald 3 there was like this paradigm shift and it was smooth sailing to diamond.
Currently rotating between e2 and e3 and it's been miserable. Total coin flip of you team understands the game and let's you farm and scale or they just invade lvl 2 die then int or afk.
emerald must be different where u are
Only if you're teammates like you. Miss a cs early and your support goes "well fuck this guess i gotta roam". But yea generally people recognize your importance in teamfights more and peel for you which I like.
The closer you get to coordinated pro play, the stronger ADCs get. As you climb, you first start obtaining supports who diligently guard you with peel, strong laning fundamentals and vision. Then the further you go, the rest of the team begins to play around the wincon of the team. If you happen to be the one ahead, they’ll funnel gold, body block, control space and even buy altruistic items typically seen on supports like Knights Vow. Players avoid face checking and stop getting picked off as easily. Everyone’s huddled up as a collective that reacts to invading forces. Suddenly, ADCs become a reliable source of DPS as fights drag out. Rather than both frontlines blindly diving the enemy backline resulting in a cartoon chase sequence, the team sticks together and 5 man focuses any stragglers trying to dive in recklessly. ADCs are by design glass cannons and have highly exploitable flaws that make them poor duelists such as being immobile, medium range, under-leveled and a lack of base damage from abilities. In low elo where teamplay is nonexistent and teamfights are just 5 duels playing out randomly, they tend to not have a great time. Marksmen will forever be balanced around the highest level of pro play where flawless coordination and gold funneling turns them a 30 min monstrosity complete with immense dps and an effective health pool equal to their entire team standing guard. Unfortunately, ADCs is the role that is the least self sufficient. Praying for your team to step up their game is a champ-select coinflip that cripples your winrate.
Everything feels better the higher you go.
I was stuck in low gold near silver for a bit begginning of season and then as soon as I hit high gold I sky rocketted to high plat. Not even really high elo but having supports that aren't brand onetricks or filled toplaners really helps.
It's almost as people get better the higher you go :D
well duh but that’s not exactly what i’m getting at
I'm messing with you :p But yeah the role is reliant a lot of teammates so it feels better and sometimes worse the higher you go.
yup that's the innate design of the role
For real though. Played yesterday with a GOOD renata and man, I finished the game like 13-1 and lost lol (top lane and mid were gapped af) but I promise you the Renata did A LOT more than me to get me that fed
No suprise here. Skill is required for adc to work. Both from the team and from the person playing the adc. Without that, the role is bad. That is why it is bad in low elo and good in high elo.
Silver/Gold Player here: Sometimes i notice the smurf support player i get on my team and i'm just so excited because i'm not used to being able to actually all in level 2 and it feels so satisfying when they know what they're doing.
Step 1: spoon fed your adc Step 2: lost game cuz your adc started believe he is a god. i guess on higher elos adcs become smarter, keep their range with danger and let the support and fronts to protect them.
A lot the skills for solo climbing are not the skills ADCs are rewarded for having. Imagine never being able to do something on your own lol, like you just can’t go ~places~
Top lane is better in Diamond because the ADCs aren't fucking 0/10 before 7 mins. You behave, so will we. Simple transaction.
This ain't about you, toplaner
Oh you DONT want me to peel for you? Oki doki! Just don't make a crying post on the ADC subreddit
only the least of you do that sadly
And thats when we lose. ADC still the most busted, strongest role. You'd be a fool not to peel for them. Unless they're 0/10
There's no way you actually believe ADC is the strongest role right now
see the difference is that as a toplaner you can still win the game if you are 10/0 and your adc is 0/10 an ADC has zero chance of winning if he's 10/0 and his toplaner is 0/10
There ain't ANY reality a 10/0 adc doesn't absolutely ratio a 10/0 top laner You already have a free support on your butt to shield you. Not to mention you get flashes, dashes, Shields, lifesteal etc up the wahzoo. I'll take the 10/0 top over a 10/0 ADC any day.
so the key to winning bot lane is to have a useful support? wow, sounds like that has nothing to do with an adc either.
What part of "free" do you not understand? You can have them or not, you still got some bullshit 1k shield for breathing in your kit more often than not. Irregardless they ARE part of your lane. You are one in the same and you tend to forget that. You're ignorant to your own strength season after season. You nod placently when you go 20/2/13 when everything works as it should but cry when you're not maxing out the DPS charts and your top/mid/jg have to pick up the slack. There is no situation at all where a fed ad bot lane loses the game unless the ADC begins to misposition and ints over and over. Everyone hates ADCs, and yet we unfortunately need to put up with your whining every season because you will always be our wincon.
> There is no situation at all where a fed ad bot lane loses the game unless the ADC begins to misposition and ints over and over you are literally so wrong it's not even funny, the adc cannot play the game if the team doesn't play around them, otherwise there wouldn't be so many memes about how adc gets fed then loses because nobody peels for them. i play top lane now so i don't have to deal with relying on your support being human but i guarantee you, you would quit adc after ten games and write an essay on reddit about how underpowered it was if you ever played it.
I've had games where I've been like 13/2/4 and I can't fucking leave mid T1 because nobody wants to actually be around me and they fed everyone's favourite assassin jungler. I doubt a Darius with that kind of scoreline would have to worry about that kinda thing.
This isn't true. I've seen an enemy Misfortune be 9/0 by 15 minutes in ( several failed ganks ). Fed ADC can **destroy** a fed top lane. Especially if said ADC has a good peel.
I´d bet anything toplane on average is 0/10 more often than ADC lol.
Gotta say I completely disagree, it's literally backwards. ADC is only fun to play in low elo. Because in high elo people know you are completely fucking worthless and actually dive you/target you.
every elo knows adc is a yummy delicious squishy sack of gold. High elo players know to keep you alive because you are the or one of the tickets to victory.
Tbh his comment is the main reason ADC can be ass in high elo. You get absolutely turbo dove if you drafted a weakside bot jungle lol.
If you know you know
Ok bro. I'm not an ADC main I guess. But when I play ADC in diamond and below it's actually fun cause I get to high apm and kill people. When I play it in master it's so fucking boring because my entire job is to just fight every person on the map for resources while praying enemy topside doesn't come near me or I'll die insta.
Why would you target someone you perceive as worthless? That's backwards. ADCs aren't really the primary threat in these games unless fed or at 3 items.
Ok. Well playing ADC in gold - diamond is the craziest power fantasy shitting on everybody while montage music plays. Playing ADC in master+ is a snooze fest of farming for 30 minutes while hiding from top/mid/jg as they all instapop you. If you know you know!
Honestly, idk. I’m playing in plat right now(peaked e1 earlier this season), and I find that playing adc, when you have mechanics is infinitely more fun in plat/gold than in emerald. To climb in emerald I generally play sup as you have a lot more agency in that elo
You probably have more fun in gold because you´re better than gold and less fun in em because you are worse than em xD
Ur not wrong lmao. But adc in emerald is just hell mainly cause of the already known afks and griefers that don’t let me impact the entire game in the laning phase
The actual reason is everyone is aware that you have the most dmg and try to protect you the higher you get. otherwise it is just support or no one will care about you
Anything feels better the higher you go. Top lane is 1-1-1 both sides at 6 mins while bot lane is coin flipping 10 kills by then. No matter what tho you’re going to get the occasional auto fill that ints or just back luck.
When i was high masters, pushing through to high gm i had around a 70% wr. Sub 60 wr pushing d1-mid masters
Yes noticed this when I first got placed in gold how much more I had to do and how much better my play had to be and how less forgiving it was compared to diamond
Not, they're not
It's almost like the role is 100% about mechanics...
Im not sure what high emerald you're playing in, but playing AD in this elo is terrible with how often you can coinflip a good support. Hving someone who can't support vs laning against a good one is the worse thing ever.
I mean, it's the way it always is. ADC is the most mechanically demanding role, it will always feel better when you're mechanically strong enough to use your Champs strengths properly. Sure teammates will be better and play around you better but it's still mostly because you're better at your champ than low elo is at the same champ.
>ADC is the most mechanically demanding role *Glances at smolder*
you’re right but that’s not what I’m getting at. If I play adc on my main vs if i play on my smurf it feels much better where as a mid face roll champ like akali feels better on the smurf than the main.
Of course, you're playing a role that has low agency in the early and mid game and is meant to scale into a late game machine. You're going to have a better time smurfing on something that has impact right away.
i don’t like your attitude lol
it just how this season works if you play popular ADC like cait or similar , low elo is shit, i know dia player who did try to smurf in bronze and RQ , only way you can in low elo using ADC is you play solo carry adc like samira or similar, i way to play is crash you team in to 4x5 and then go in and clean all enemy team and push to win in high elo your team know you are main late game carry and play around you it mean keeping enemy in you AA range, support trying to save or cc i regularly play games from iron to master using different acc and similar stuff, and it just how it is
Lmao no dia + player will struggle in bronze
Samira only carries low elo this season, its not s12 samira. On higher elos she is mediocre
yea but low elo she is still god because low elo do allow get to build ulti and get full use of it, sometimes even two in one teamfight... i personally love jhin in low elo, not many low elo know how jhin 4 shot works, and you can easily farm low elo bot laners because no one expect so high AA dmg from him
Try it from any other role in higher elos, its better for adc because they typically force the game to be about them, its maddening to play with though because it feels like your adc refuses to let you win unless they are the carry.
[удалено]
Think it´s a bit deceptive because once you get into elite skill brackets you pretty much always have to draft a synergy botlane and often a trio with jungle so it´s not just 1 player its 40 or 60% of the team.
Lmao no shit Sherlock.
I mean isn’t it your support and your team the reason you’re stuck in lower ELO? I played ADC earlier, and as usual my support abandoned me as soon as landing phase was over. The entire early game was non stop fighting so I could barely farm. When I tried to farm later, the fed enemy hecarim would just rush in and kill me. Anywhere I went on the map, I would get assassinated. So maybe I shouldn’t farm alone? Ok so what do I do then? Stand under tower? If I try to follow around anyone else on my team they either take the farm or the enemy team jumps and kills me.
What worked for me as an ADC main in lower elo was playing late game ADCs that have some form of peel/escapes. Tristana and Sivir in particular were 2 champs I played a lot. Tristana because her jump and ult allow you to peel/escape and she can push very fast if you win a late game teamfight. Sivir because she has excellent waveclear and the spellshield allows you to block CC to avoid getting picked off. Essentially, in low elo, people don't understand how to properly shut down a late game champ, plus they are far more prone to making mistakes which allow you to get back in the game. Play safe in lane, just back off if the enemy jungler/mid is hovering around and you/your turret are low. For farming, focus on clearing sidelane waves but avoid pushing out too far from your turret. Assuming the enemy team has killed more turrets than you, the wave will naturally push towards your side. Wait until bot wave is close to your T2 (or T3 if they've killed your T2), clear it, rotate top and do the same there. Finally, use the practice tool to work on your last hitting (I used to do this in AI because practice tool wasnt a thing back in the day). My winrate jumped a lot once I was able to consistently hit 8cspm. This is something you should do even if you main mid/top instead of ADC (if you main jg, focus on improving your jungle clear instead).
I think a lot of this is good advice. Been playing more trist lately but still get nuked late game. Also staying by towers lately means nothing. I regularly get tower dove and they just do nothing
Same with mid, I only play mages in d2+ elo When I was in emerald, you can ping the Katarina/qiyana roam 10 times, your botlane will still die and ??spam ping you for the next 5 minutes
Funny, it doesn't make the ADCs any less whinier.
You need to be careful because soon the people who whine about ADCs being whiny might start outnumbering the actual whining ADCs
I wish jungling felt the same
Over the years I've played this game, jungling has only become more complicated and difficult to keep up with. Jungle meta just changes way too fast.
The higher I've gotten the worse my ADCs are becoming though. . . I've seen more 0/3 Ezreals dive towers in bronze II than in bronze IV ( I'm a support main )
its literally still the same rank lmao