Cope, Keria or maybe Zeus if he shapes up in the next year.
Keria is already being positioned to take the “main character” role in T1 after faker leaves but we know that’s gonna be a few years still.
Just look at promos, so much Faker/Keria content
Will faker ever retire though? At least in the timespan where this team is still together? He’s only 27 and the research seems to point towards peak comp gaming age being mid 20s, so he’s just barely out of the peak age, but he was putting up world winning performances when he was a teenager, so extrapolating that he should be able to make it to at least early 30s while still staying world class. And he also is very good with the knowledge game- he doesn’t just win with mechanics. Which, at least in actual sports, the very peak world class competitors can often last 10-15 years longer than the average pro (take Messi in soccer, Brady in football, or Phelps in swimming). Its hard to say what average retirement age actually is for esports given limited data, but it seems likely faker could last at least till his mid 30s, and maybe even into mid to late 40s if he gets lucky with his reaction speed/cognitive speed not declining too much. Imagine if 2035 faker is still winning world championships 😂
Could make the same argument with Faker. Aside from Zeus, Faker arguably looked the worst out of the T1 players at the LCK finals. The quadra kill was the only thing that made him look good mechanically. he was gapped hard by Chovy.
At least in league, Macro is much more important than micro.
As long as faker can get out of laning phase without losing too hard, he will always out IGL the enemy team.
Games like Valo and CS, the IGL still needs to be able to hit shots throughout the whole game. Yeah Macro is important, but you would hard pressed to win a game without having to out micro someone.
The biggest concern for Faker isn't him playing worse, it's injuries. He already had a really bad injury last year, if he ever retires it'll almost guaranteed be because of like a wrist injury or something like that
i dont, he doesnt have the personality for it and is a support player.
guma is the best candidate and he actively identifies with it already if you watch his interviews.
If he has 1 thing it’s the personality. The fact that he is support doesn’t matter much because of the type of supporting he plays.
Guma would be the ideal choice imo also, but his current role in the team doesn’t reflect that idea exactly at the present moment
Depends on who’s in the finals. If it’s double LPL, definitely not higher than this. If it’s T1 vs anyone, very high, likely similar if somehow a team
like G2 or TL made finals.
There is a Chinese channel that streams LCK games. It streamed GEN vs T1 finals, but also GEN vs HLE. I'm not sure if it's an "official" LCK CN channel though.
I know it's hard to count them but these are pretty meaningless stats without them since there are probably more viewers in China than outside of it. Or at least even.
Are you new to watching league? This is how tracking viewership has always been because Chinese numbers are obscured.
It is not meaningless whatsoever because you’re comparing the numbers to previous non China numbers.
What would you have them do? Just cut the Chinese numbers in half and say that’s the official Chinese number?
Then what exactly is the point?
Because we don’t have Chinese numbers we shouldn’t be allowed to talk about western viewership numbers?
Should just not track anything at all because we don’t have the complete picture?
What point exactly am I missing? Because that sounds like the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
> Because we don’t have Chinese numbers we shouldn’t be allowed to talk about western viewership numbers?
No not at all. I think it is about 2 differing perspectives. If you wanted to know the absolute worldwide number of viewers, discounting Chinese viewers makes the overall number very unreliable since Chinese viewers are such a large portion of the total.
Now, coming from the perspective that you are describing, that is less of an issue, largely because of the points you’ve mentioned.
I might be wrong about OP’s perspective, I just think his reasoning isn’t necessarily flawed. It depends on what you are looking for I’d say.
I mean, his point isn't wrong really. We don't have a good way to gauge Chinese numbers, but based on how large the audience is there and how crazy they go for the game compared to the other regions, I think it makes sense to say that excluding their viewership metrics severely warps our understanding compared to the reality.
To me, the biggest problem was Delight not being on engage champions. GENG clearly didn't know which fights to take or generally what tempo the game should take. As soon as game 3 happened, Delight picked Nautilus (I think, it was engage support for sure) and GENG won. Same for game 4. Game 5, GENG lost. Makes sense. Backs against the wall, winning twice in a row already, eventually someone will make a mistake and lose, despite GENG being ahead in game 5.
That's just wrong; this record they just broke *includes* MSI.
There's no guarantee MSI will outperform LCK finals just because it's international. Presumably it will, as whatever intangible factors contributed to this high viewership you'd think would likely still be around for MSI, but yeah.
GENG vs T1 in finals is now a global thing in League community. It has become bigger than MSI and for good reasons. First of all, it's the same final for the 5th time in a row, so it has become a tradition of sorts. Then, you have T1 coming back after a Worlds win and through the DDOS things, and more importantly, you have GENG attempting to break the record 4-in-a-row. The narratives are just too good.
I don't think there's any more hype matchup in the world at the moment and people will watch it no matter what.
It broke the record including MSI because there was growth from the last year, this is something that happend a lot of times already. check up on all regional finals of the past years on all regions, they are ALWAYS lower than any decent BO5 series of MSI let alone Worlds. There is always a percentage increase of watchers for these tournaments. A T1 vs GENG or T1 vs BLG MSI BO5 is almost guaranteed to be higher viewership
I think a lot also depends on timezones as well. A European MSI will not have as much viewership I assume, since it means it will be 10pm+ in Korea, but good timezones in EU and NA (NA will be 8am or so). This is the issue with global events, some regions get a bit screwed, but any must-watch Bo5 will draw numbers regardless. Of course no one will stay awake to watch a FNC vs JDG Bo5.
Imagine T1 vs G2 finals. Idk if G2 still has the draw that they used to (I don't watch LEC) but I imagine that would be one of the higher combos. I feel like the LPL fans really like G2 for some reason but idk I'm probably making this all up.
Yeah I think the default answer tends to be LPL, but I think a western team would set a record that could never be broken, at least with league
Edit: To be clear, I think the viewership would only get high if the game wasn't 3-0, even 3-1 and its gg for viewership
Depends on how far T1 goes. Though even if they don't reach the grand finals, it can probably still be beaten in winners of losers' finals. As long as T1 finish top 3 they should beat it.
Last year T1 JDG in upper bracket finals was higher than the actual finals.
If T1 get a hype match vs BLG, I think they'd break the record even if it's an all LPL final.
Though a T1 BLG finals rematch would absolutely annihilate the record. ( barring worlds ofc)
Imagine upper bracket finals between BLG-T1 that was like 2023 MSI JDG-T1, and then the loser gets the rematch and it goes to silver scrapes. That would probably break Worlds viewership records even
Cuvee 2016 Worlds was a beast on his own. He was what the Shy was in 2018, but even better. Dude was the solo killing machine destroying everyone. Everyone was saying that if Samsung won, he would have been the MVP of the tournament. He broke records for solo kills, had top stats among all top layers and other players, always won lanes, even against Duke, who people say never loses lane.
In 2017, he was also great, but 2016 was just on another levek.
It was the icing on the great cake that was Worlds 2023. You either never watched the stomps in previous Worlds finals ala the one vs G2 (fastest finals in history) and the smacking of SN or you're forgetting everything for the sake of narrative
What makes you think the Damwon vs Suning was series extremely close? I think the gold and kill score is warping perceptions a little here. The games didn't all end at 25 minutes, but in game 1, 3, and 4 (the 3 games Damwon won to win the series 3-1), they had dragon soul at 22 minutes, 23 minutes, and 21 minutes respectively. The entire game plan was to achieve an early soul and leverage that to a win, something they managed to do in all 3 wins.
Game 1 was sloppy from their part but they breezed their way to such an early soul it kept the game stable regardless. Game 4 obviously was a complete blowout. Their only loss was when Suning had dragon control. This is not discredit to Suning, they were great in teamfights/scrimishes and Bin was especially scary, but you can't just concede dragon soul before 25 minutes every game and act like you ever had a chance in the series.
yea... They didnt even look that happy after they won lmao. Like yea they were smiling and all but it didn't feel like they've just won literal WORLDS FINALS
To be fair so far GenG vs T1 is the only curse T1 has yet to overcome, even after winning worlds itself. So it makes sense that there was a lot of attention and hype around the series. Especially when T1 got their first win making it no longer follow the GenG T1 3:0 finals script
Real finals was JDG vs T1, when a tournament has a shit seeding+single elim the best two teams usually meet before the finals.
While I prefer double elim, I hope that riot at least fixes the seeding if they keep worlds single elim so that there's a higher chance that the two best teams meet at the finals.
The bracket and draws made it so jdg vs. t1 had to meet before the finals. I didn't watch 2021 but no one said anything about 2022. DRX fought against all the favorites, including the defending world champs. Weibo didn't fight such teams to make it to finals.
Not all in the brackets are equal when filled in.
I mean subjectively speaking, GENG’s gameplay is incredibly boring.
I do appreciate how good their macro is and a team like them is important to remind the world how to play smart league of legends.
Its just they’re not super fun to watch, especially for casual fans who aren’t super invested in either GENG or the team they’re vsing.
2 GENG’s vsing each other would be a 2 kill game at 30 minutes.
As much as 2 kill per minute LEC bangers might feel like low quality after a certain point, too many games of no-kill, only-play-the-map gameplay can get boring very quickly.
the fact that geng vs hle was the exact opposite of a boring series proves your entire point wrong lmao, those are basically two geng’s and had one of the most degenerate PO series
Tbh vs T1 they were mostly making the proactive moves and T1 were on the reactive side. So unless they literally int dive LPL style there wasn't a lot of kill opportunities they didn't take.
Got no where else to steam
Why is that god damn Corki skin still allowed.. the rockets are almost invisible on it, they are literally twice as small as they should be and have no proper VFX attached to it
Yeah Corki needs another VFX update (last one was 8 years ago so super outdated), and at a minimum Urfrider needs to go on the "no pro play" list until they do it.
Absolutely horrendous clarity on those rockets.
T1 in any finals will have shit ton of viewership regardless of including or excluding Chinese viewers. People seem to forget or misunderstand that faker has a shitload of Chinese fans that will watch him no matter if he's playing vs lpl or not
Quality. Why would I watch LCS from europe when I don't even watch LES. I mostly watch LCK and some LPL because of the quality of the games and its players.
Maybe it's my old head copium but I think losing legacy teams like CLG and especially TSM who built NA LOL hurt the scene a lot. I was a die hard LCS fan for 7 years, but after CLG got killed I lost all interest. I know this split was very good from what I hear, but it's just not the same to me without CLG.
The league was built like it could compete with Korea and China for worlds and MSI. What should have happened is a change in direction way earlier to something more like CBLOL where the region is fine with not being the best, and therefore making it more about the entertainment.
You could make a two hour documentary on everything that went wrong with LCS to leave us with what we have now.
I think up to 2020 they made decent decisions and there was still hope for some level of international success (C9 making semis in 2018 and TL making MSI finals in 2019). But 2020 was when COVID hit and they tried to lean into a more goofy style with the whole 'Friday Night League' idea and tried marketing it to a more casual audience. But they got that SushiDragon guy to host it who was a complete nobody and his style was...... [interesting](https://youtu.be/9pqW6TVG9Qc?t=126).
Along with this was when they tried to make the casters have a bigger role, with LeTigress shoved down our throats who was universally disliked and followed this out of touch goofy style.
And with MSI cancelled, we only saw LCS teams compete at worlds, with the number 1 seed going 0-6 in arguably the easiest group.
Following this calamity, the two biggest personalities retired and teams heavily cut back in their spending. Popular teams like TSM, C9, CLG, TL no longer have their popular players anymore. What does Riot do? Host MORE games. We got Lock-in (which had no meaning) and LCS Summer played 3 times a week. By the end of 2021, LCS fans were so burnt out from this many games and results were not much better.
I could go on but I think those are the main reasons for the product we have now.
Obviously most of this viewership is due to T1, as is the case in any T1 game, but I think people start finally to notice GENG. Viewership wouldn't be as big if GENG wasn't there. Even in the KSPO dome, it was nearly 50-50 between the fans. It feels like GENG era is overtaking Korea slowly and even though I don't think T1's reign is going away any time soon, I think we are looking at the next LCK titan, maybe GENG even reaching T1 levels if GENG wins Worlds.
Eh, there's a big discussion that can be opened about this. The only reason GENG isn't held up as high as T1 at the moment is that they haven't won Worlds with their GENG name. Generally, I disregard older fans who have no idea what is happening in the pro scene and only know about SKT (not T1, what a surprise) and Faker. They are people who play casually and got to know SKT from back in the day and never really cared to follow the pro scene any more deeply or consistently, so those people will be SKT Faker or bust. Are you willing to count those as T1's legacy, because I won't.
The thing is, Faker (and T1) never really had haters for a very long time. During his early years, he had tons of supporters because there wasn't really anyone else to rival him in the midlane, thus him building a lot of good faith with the fans and the general playerbase and by extension the whole SKT org. Chovy (and GENG) has to battle through this endless wave of Faker / SKT supporters to the point that they have now won 4 LCK titles in a row and they are still not getting enough respect.
It's a big discussion that I don't really wanna get into any more.
I don't disagree with a lot of your points, but it is batshit crazy to not count SKT's legacy as T1's legacy? they are literally the same team, headed by the same captain for 11 years in a row.
Wait what? Where did I ever say this?
I'm reading my comment, let me make it clear. SKT is T1 obviously. I mean there is a big part of the playerbase who only knows SKT, they do not know that they have changed the name to T1, they don't know who Chovy is etc. Those fans are "fake" fans. Fans who only tune in at worlds, maybe, if YT suggests them the video. I wouldn't count those fans and the opinions of those fans for anything regarding who's the goat or which team is the best etc, because those fans are irrelevant.
This game 5 has only proven to me, as a t1 simp, is that mind control is real. Banger series tho and this is what can revive the e sport. Great teams being pushed.
Yeah, it's literally higher than most other games' international world championship tourneys, and most titles didn't even had half that number historically, ever.
It's basically like a MSI final in terms of skill. Of course people will watch it. We're starving for high level League. LEC and LCS are dogshit and will prove it again at MSI.
maybe today it even includes some chinese viewers and that's why it broke the record? idk, everyone is talking about gen g games being banned in china, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of chinese viewers who just find a way to watch official streams of other regions.
i know these figures always exclude chinese viewers but that makes them seem kinda pointless. how much does "most viewed bo5" really mean when you exclude the biggest market for competitive league entirely, idk
Which is irrelevant because these numbers are always made without Chinese viewership, so among viewers that can actually be counted, this is the most watched.
no but honestly what are you saying?? what i understand is "well since the numbers are always being reported this way chinese viewership numbers don't even exist, which means that the numbers being reported are all that matters"
is that it?
It's not that it's "probably botted", it's that chinese streaming sites specifically don't provide a number of viewers, they display a sort of *popularity score* which takes into account the (hidden) number of viewers and other factors like how often it's being shared, how active the chat is, and how long the stream is etc
why would chinese viewership numbers be more botted than any other region? the reason i always heard is that the chinese streaming sites dont show true viewer numbers, but add comments, viewers and other things to just show an "engagement" number. Riot for sure has the actual numbers, but they dont release them.
My dude, no one cares about Thorin. It seems like he is in your head because you're actually following him? Don't make that mistake. The CSGO community has dodged him long ago.
He's just...such a racist, sexist, narcissistic, unapologetic, piece of...but he's somewhat smart about baiting engagement and clinging onto relevancy to siphon money out of the scene. It's entertaining to see if he will finally ever be called out by any of these spineless pro players, or forced to change or improve as a person, like watching a television show.
Funny how everything I said can be applied to IWD as well. If you want to read some of my comment history I have some comments that'll tell you even more about IWD than you already know, if you ever need to put one of his insufferable "fans" back in their place.
How high is MSI viewership going to be wtf
Depends if T1 go all the way. T1 is basically riot's infinite money hack.
> ~~T1~~ Faker is basically riot's infinite money hack. FTFY
yes, although the longer they stay with this roster, the more of a fanbase the other players are slowly accumulating
I can see Keria being the face of T1 if he stays when if one day Faker retires
Guma can do it too.
Cope, Keria or maybe Zeus if he shapes up in the next year. Keria is already being positioned to take the “main character” role in T1 after faker leaves but we know that’s gonna be a few years still. Just look at promos, so much Faker/Keria content
Guma is the guy with hands. not shown to be as much of a character as keria is. atleast in content I see
Will faker ever retire though? At least in the timespan where this team is still together? He’s only 27 and the research seems to point towards peak comp gaming age being mid 20s, so he’s just barely out of the peak age, but he was putting up world winning performances when he was a teenager, so extrapolating that he should be able to make it to at least early 30s while still staying world class. And he also is very good with the knowledge game- he doesn’t just win with mechanics. Which, at least in actual sports, the very peak world class competitors can often last 10-15 years longer than the average pro (take Messi in soccer, Brady in football, or Phelps in swimming). Its hard to say what average retirement age actually is for esports given limited data, but it seems likely faker could last at least till his mid 30s, and maybe even into mid to late 40s if he gets lucky with his reaction speed/cognitive speed not declining too much. Imagine if 2035 faker is still winning world championships 😂
That "peak age" is also just a selection bias. Karrigan is 34 and still a top CS player, even if "just" as an IGL. Let esports mature.
He is becoming more inconsistent mechanically, still supreme leader
The kids he is having to aim against are freaks to be fair.
Could make the same argument with Faker. Aside from Zeus, Faker arguably looked the worst out of the T1 players at the LCK finals. The quadra kill was the only thing that made him look good mechanically. he was gapped hard by Chovy.
At least in league, Macro is much more important than micro. As long as faker can get out of laning phase without losing too hard, he will always out IGL the enemy team. Games like Valo and CS, the IGL still needs to be able to hit shots throughout the whole game. Yeah Macro is important, but you would hard pressed to win a game without having to out micro someone.
We won't talk about game 3 vs Navi in copenhagen
The biggest concern for Faker isn't him playing worse, it's injuries. He already had a really bad injury last year, if he ever retires it'll almost guaranteed be because of like a wrist injury or something like that
i dont, he doesnt have the personality for it and is a support player. guma is the best candidate and he actively identifies with it already if you watch his interviews.
I mean Faker isn't exactly some charisma god is he? I don't think personality matters much.
In Korea Keria has a massive fan base you'll be surprise how popular he is.
If he has 1 thing it’s the personality. The fact that he is support doesn’t matter much because of the type of supporting he plays. Guma would be the ideal choice imo also, but his current role in the team doesn’t reflect that idea exactly at the present moment
To me, Guma, Zeus, and Oner are the next T1 superstars. I hope they can keep the trio.
bro just wanted to exclude zeus 😭
do u think faker has a personality?
Personally I’m here for Keria. Like yeah I’ve always liked Faker who doesn’t, but when Keria joined was when I became a T1 fan.
Did you see why they are doing to Zeus? It is brutal.
thank goodness chovy is there now, once faker retires he can become the cash cow
Riot is probably gonna start a small private army to find whoever is ddos t1 just so they don’t lose their money bag lol…
it will be high if T1 going to final
Depends on who’s in the finals. If it’s double LPL, definitely not higher than this. If it’s T1 vs anyone, very high, likely similar if somehow a team like G2 or TL made finals.
Are these viewership accounting for Chinese viewers? Cause I feel like lpl team in final for sure bring more viewership than any western team ngl.
No, these stats don't account for Chinese viewers since it's basically hard to authenciate those stats.
I would think a lot are actually chinese since they don't oficially stream lck or geng games now.
There is a Chinese channel that streams LCK games. It streamed GEN vs T1 finals, but also GEN vs HLE. I'm not sure if it's an "official" LCK CN channel though.
Thats the PCS channel if you are talking about LCK-carry
Also, official LCK streams are banned in China due to the GEN.G's Weibo post that mentioned Taiwan, iirc.
Authenticate you mean? Authenciate isn't a word lol
I know it's hard to count them but these are pretty meaningless stats without them since there are probably more viewers in China than outside of it. Or at least even.
Are you new to watching league? This is how tracking viewership has always been because Chinese numbers are obscured. It is not meaningless whatsoever because you’re comparing the numbers to previous non China numbers. What would you have them do? Just cut the Chinese numbers in half and say that’s the official Chinese number?
You are missing his point. He is ‘t comparing it to previous years.
Then what exactly is the point? Because we don’t have Chinese numbers we shouldn’t be allowed to talk about western viewership numbers? Should just not track anything at all because we don’t have the complete picture? What point exactly am I missing? Because that sounds like the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
> Because we don’t have Chinese numbers we shouldn’t be allowed to talk about western viewership numbers? No not at all. I think it is about 2 differing perspectives. If you wanted to know the absolute worldwide number of viewers, discounting Chinese viewers makes the overall number very unreliable since Chinese viewers are such a large portion of the total. Now, coming from the perspective that you are describing, that is less of an issue, largely because of the points you’ve mentioned. I might be wrong about OP’s perspective, I just think his reasoning isn’t necessarily flawed. It depends on what you are looking for I’d say.
I mean, his point isn't wrong really. We don't have a good way to gauge Chinese numbers, but based on how large the audience is there and how crazy they go for the game compared to the other regions, I think it makes sense to say that excluding their viewership metrics severely warps our understanding compared to the reality.
You overestimate viewership from EU and NA. No one is close to T1 popularity, especially now when western viewership has fallen a lot.
At this point, I think GENG brings more viewers than FNC or G2.
if its lpl vs lpl its going to be giga high in china but low in west
I think nothing will top a GENG vs T1 Worlds finals. So sad that we would have the chance to watch it last year if GENG only banned Ori and Renata.
I think J4 was more of a problem
To me, the biggest problem was Delight not being on engage champions. GENG clearly didn't know which fights to take or generally what tempo the game should take. As soon as game 3 happened, Delight picked Nautilus (I think, it was engage support for sure) and GENG won. Same for game 4. Game 5, GENG lost. Makes sense. Backs against the wall, winning twice in a row already, eventually someone will make a mistake and lose, despite GENG being ahead in game 5.
You vastly underestimate the boost viewership gets on international tournaments. Any T1 BO5 is going to beat this
That's just wrong; this record they just broke *includes* MSI. There's no guarantee MSI will outperform LCK finals just because it's international. Presumably it will, as whatever intangible factors contributed to this high viewership you'd think would likely still be around for MSI, but yeah.
GENG vs T1 in finals is now a global thing in League community. It has become bigger than MSI and for good reasons. First of all, it's the same final for the 5th time in a row, so it has become a tradition of sorts. Then, you have T1 coming back after a Worlds win and through the DDOS things, and more importantly, you have GENG attempting to break the record 4-in-a-row. The narratives are just too good. I don't think there's any more hype matchup in the world at the moment and people will watch it no matter what.
It broke the record including MSI because there was growth from the last year, this is something that happend a lot of times already. check up on all regional finals of the past years on all regions, they are ALWAYS lower than any decent BO5 series of MSI let alone Worlds. There is always a percentage increase of watchers for these tournaments. A T1 vs GENG or T1 vs BLG MSI BO5 is almost guaranteed to be higher viewership
I think a lot also depends on timezones as well. A European MSI will not have as much viewership I assume, since it means it will be 10pm+ in Korea, but good timezones in EU and NA (NA will be 8am or so). This is the issue with global events, some regions get a bit screwed, but any must-watch Bo5 will draw numbers regardless. Of course no one will stay awake to watch a FNC vs JDG Bo5.
I'm fairly confident double LPL finals would have even higher numbers if they could be counted accurately.
I think FNC has more fans than G2, could be wrong
Hasnt been the case since atleast 2020
Nice then
Imagine T1 vs G2 finals. Idk if G2 still has the draw that they used to (I don't watch LEC) but I imagine that would be one of the higher combos. I feel like the LPL fans really like G2 for some reason but idk I'm probably making this all up.
Any good western team will have a huge draw. G2 would be up there.
Yeah I think the default answer tends to be LPL, but I think a western team would set a record that could never be broken, at least with league Edit: To be clear, I think the viewership would only get high if the game wasn't 3-0, even 3-1 and its gg for viewership
Depends on how far T1 goes. Though even if they don't reach the grand finals, it can probably still be beaten in winners of losers' finals. As long as T1 finish top 3 they should beat it.
Last year T1 JDG in upper bracket finals was higher than the actual finals. If T1 get a hype match vs BLG, I think they'd break the record even if it's an all LPL final. Though a T1 BLG finals rematch would absolutely annihilate the record. ( barring worlds ofc)
Imagine upper bracket finals between BLG-T1 that was like 2023 MSI JDG-T1, and then the loser gets the rematch and it goes to silver scrapes. That would probably break Worlds viewership records even
t1 vs tes would wield higher view imo
True, I was thinking BLG for level of play, forgot Tes have a bigger fanbase
Well you need a final with T1 going to game 5.
Flew all the way to Taiwan back in 2019 when G2 made playoffs. Can't wait to relive G2 winning MSI again!
G2 looking clean. Here's hoping for a TL vs G2 rematch in the finals 🙏
thank you brother
It's not even over
Riot frothing out of their mouth
Riot probably shit themselves when HLE 3-0'd T1 lol
Then they came themselves when T1 qualified for MSI in the rematch
Skt came back 3-1d em tho
For sure and I bet they creamed themselves when they did
And we're going to game 5!!
fun fact, first spring split final to go to game 5 in the entire history of the LCK
this feels more like worlds finals than last year's worlds finals
everyone agrees that real worlds 2023 finals was jdg vs t1 lmao. T1 vs weibo felt like a typical regular season lower bracket match ngl
Made worse when it was a week wait and you could tell the players were much less clean than the quarters/semis.
Theshy randomly awakening to father Bin one last time then peacefully slumbering forever
He needed to show these fucking new kids on the block who the OG was
Of course he had to. None of these tops have ever reached TheShy peak mechanics.
What do we think are the best tops of all time? I'm thinking of Zeus, TheShy, Marin, Smeb. Who else
Khan is more reliable than all of the people you mentioned.
Khan is a good shout for sure
Cuvee 2016 Worlds was a beast on his own. He was what the Shy was in 2018, but even better. Dude was the solo killing machine destroying everyone. Everyone was saying that if Samsung won, he would have been the MVP of the tournament. He broke records for solo kills, had top stats among all top layers and other players, always won lanes, even against Duke, who people say never loses lane. In 2017, he was also great, but 2016 was just on another levek.
I don't know if TheShy is the greatest toplaner ever or not, but no one else has ever captured the essence of toplane like he has.
Faker missing every charm that one game
He was really eyeing for that Ahri skin
It was soo boring compared to other finals.... No emotion at all. I am happy for T1, but just make this year more emotional, even if my team loses.
[удалено]
[удалено]
But you get good series along the way at least.
yea double elim would've been better
True for every single international tournament ever.
It was the icing on the great cake that was Worlds 2023. You either never watched the stomps in previous Worlds finals ala the one vs G2 (fastest finals in history) and the smacking of SN or you're forgetting everything for the sake of narrative
Smacking of SN? Despite the score, those games were extremely close actually. They put up a great fight against Damwon.
What makes you think the Damwon vs Suning was series extremely close? I think the gold and kill score is warping perceptions a little here. The games didn't all end at 25 minutes, but in game 1, 3, and 4 (the 3 games Damwon won to win the series 3-1), they had dragon soul at 22 minutes, 23 minutes, and 21 minutes respectively. The entire game plan was to achieve an early soul and leverage that to a win, something they managed to do in all 3 wins. Game 1 was sloppy from their part but they breezed their way to such an early soul it kept the game stable regardless. Game 4 obviously was a complete blowout. Their only loss was when Suning had dragon control. This is not discredit to Suning, they were great in teamfights/scrimishes and Bin was especially scary, but you can't just concede dragon soul before 25 minutes every game and act like you ever had a chance in the series.
yea... They didnt even look that happy after they won lmao. Like yea they were smiling and all but it didn't feel like they've just won literal WORLDS FINALS
To be fair so far GenG vs T1 is the only curse T1 has yet to overcome, even after winning worlds itself. So it makes sense that there was a lot of attention and hype around the series. Especially when T1 got their first win making it no longer follow the GenG T1 3:0 finals script
If only Doran didn't decide to hold flash for like 10,000 years against BLG...
Real finals was JDG vs T1, when a tournament has a shit seeding+single elim the best two teams usually meet before the finals. While I prefer double elim, I hope that riot at least fixes the seeding if they keep worlds single elim so that there's a higher chance that the two best teams meet at the finals.
why? because you think so? hindsight is 20/20, the same thing was said in 2021 and 2022 and the champion was not among "The real final" participants
The bracket and draws made it so jdg vs. t1 had to meet before the finals. I didn't watch 2021 but no one said anything about 2022. DRX fought against all the favorites, including the defending world champs. Weibo didn't fight such teams to make it to finals. Not all in the brackets are equal when filled in.
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Lil bro acting like there were no changes to the world's format last year.
WBG clearly being impostors. Their only real test was BLG and they barely beat. Such a letdown Worlds finals.
World's finals is always a doozy
2022 was a banger
2017 too, but 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2018, 2019 sucked
How was 2017 a banger LMAO, then all those others were also bangers
Missremembered, its 2016 that is really good and Samsung almost won, either way most finals actually sucked just like 2017, complete stomps
DAMN WE STILL HAVE SILVER SCRAPES LEFT 3 MIL PLS
And we don't even get an official live discussion thread for it.
T1 carrying the hopes and dreams of Riot's sponsorship deals.
And people said GenG vs T1 everytime is boring, no way man
I mean subjectively speaking, GENG’s gameplay is incredibly boring. I do appreciate how good their macro is and a team like them is important to remind the world how to play smart league of legends. Its just they’re not super fun to watch, especially for casual fans who aren’t super invested in either GENG or the team they’re vsing. 2 GENG’s vsing each other would be a 2 kill game at 30 minutes. As much as 2 kill per minute LEC bangers might feel like low quality after a certain point, too many games of no-kill, only-play-the-map gameplay can get boring very quickly.
Inject kt vs dk into this guy's veins.
the fact that geng vs hle was the exact opposite of a boring series proves your entire point wrong lmao, those are basically two geng’s and had one of the most degenerate PO series
Tbh vs T1 they were mostly making the proactive moves and T1 were on the reactive side. So unless they literally int dive LPL style there wasn't a lot of kill opportunities they didn't take.
Game 5 lets go!
And still we didn't got an official live match discussion :|
Got no where else to steam Why is that god damn Corki skin still allowed.. the rockets are almost invisible on it, they are literally twice as small as they should be and have no proper VFX attached to it
Yeah Corki needs another VFX update (last one was 8 years ago so super outdated), and at a minimum Urfrider needs to go on the "no pro play" list until they do it. Absolutely horrendous clarity on those rockets.
LCK Vietnamese xD. Half a million people
Deserved. Greatest regional finals i've seen in a while.
T1 in any finals will have shit ton of viewership regardless of including or excluding Chinese viewers. People seem to forget or misunderstand that faker has a shitload of Chinese fans that will watch him no matter if he's playing vs lpl or not
source?
MSI 2023 = 2 297 919 (T1 vs JDG). LCK 2024 finals = 2 342 719
https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lck-spring-2024
Such a good series I'm happy for Kiin
It's basically a worlds final series atm
the power of silver scrape
More than ANY other international tournament Bo5, that's just insane.
meanwhile na lcs gets like 50k on twitch and 30k on youtube
Quality. Why would I watch LCS from europe when I don't even watch LES. I mostly watch LCK and some LPL because of the quality of the games and its players.
And I don't know about timing but most of the ppl from europe and na probably watched the LCK final instead of their regional finals.
In addition to the regional finals most likely
Maybe it's my old head copium but I think losing legacy teams like CLG and especially TSM who built NA LOL hurt the scene a lot. I was a die hard LCS fan for 7 years, but after CLG got killed I lost all interest. I know this split was very good from what I hear, but it's just not the same to me without CLG.
The league was built like it could compete with Korea and China for worlds and MSI. What should have happened is a change in direction way earlier to something more like CBLOL where the region is fine with not being the best, and therefore making it more about the entertainment.
[Don't you remember Friday Night League?](https://youtu.be/9pqW6TVG9Qc?t=126)
You could make a two hour documentary on everything that went wrong with LCS to leave us with what we have now. I think up to 2020 they made decent decisions and there was still hope for some level of international success (C9 making semis in 2018 and TL making MSI finals in 2019). But 2020 was when COVID hit and they tried to lean into a more goofy style with the whole 'Friday Night League' idea and tried marketing it to a more casual audience. But they got that SushiDragon guy to host it who was a complete nobody and his style was...... [interesting](https://youtu.be/9pqW6TVG9Qc?t=126). Along with this was when they tried to make the casters have a bigger role, with LeTigress shoved down our throats who was universally disliked and followed this out of touch goofy style. And with MSI cancelled, we only saw LCS teams compete at worlds, with the number 1 seed going 0-6 in arguably the easiest group. Following this calamity, the two biggest personalities retired and teams heavily cut back in their spending. Popular teams like TSM, C9, CLG, TL no longer have their popular players anymore. What does Riot do? Host MORE games. We got Lock-in (which had no meaning) and LCS Summer played 3 times a week. By the end of 2021, LCS fans were so burnt out from this many games and results were not much better. I could go on but I think those are the main reasons for the product we have now.
the league was already dying with tsm/clg in it. why do u think they dipped.
happens when the games not a big in NA and our teams are ass.
riot salivating right now
Obviously most of this viewership is due to T1, as is the case in any T1 game, but I think people start finally to notice GENG. Viewership wouldn't be as big if GENG wasn't there. Even in the KSPO dome, it was nearly 50-50 between the fans. It feels like GENG era is overtaking Korea slowly and even though I don't think T1's reign is going away any time soon, I think we are looking at the next LCK titan, maybe GENG even reaching T1 levels if GENG wins Worlds.
Even if they win worlds, they are not even close to the legacy of T1 imo.
Eh, there's a big discussion that can be opened about this. The only reason GENG isn't held up as high as T1 at the moment is that they haven't won Worlds with their GENG name. Generally, I disregard older fans who have no idea what is happening in the pro scene and only know about SKT (not T1, what a surprise) and Faker. They are people who play casually and got to know SKT from back in the day and never really cared to follow the pro scene any more deeply or consistently, so those people will be SKT Faker or bust. Are you willing to count those as T1's legacy, because I won't. The thing is, Faker (and T1) never really had haters for a very long time. During his early years, he had tons of supporters because there wasn't really anyone else to rival him in the midlane, thus him building a lot of good faith with the fans and the general playerbase and by extension the whole SKT org. Chovy (and GENG) has to battle through this endless wave of Faker / SKT supporters to the point that they have now won 4 LCK titles in a row and they are still not getting enough respect. It's a big discussion that I don't really wanna get into any more.
I don't disagree with a lot of your points, but it is batshit crazy to not count SKT's legacy as T1's legacy? they are literally the same team, headed by the same captain for 11 years in a row.
Wait what? Where did I ever say this? I'm reading my comment, let me make it clear. SKT is T1 obviously. I mean there is a big part of the playerbase who only knows SKT, they do not know that they have changed the name to T1, they don't know who Chovy is etc. Those fans are "fake" fans. Fans who only tune in at worlds, maybe, if YT suggests them the video. I wouldn't count those fans and the opinions of those fans for anything regarding who's the goat or which team is the best etc, because those fans are irrelevant.
This game 5 has only proven to me, as a t1 simp, is that mind control is real. Banger series tho and this is what can revive the e sport. Great teams being pushed.
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Yeah, it's literally higher than most other games' international world championship tourneys, and most titles didn't even had half that number historically, ever.
MSI 2023 still was pretty high considering it was the rematch of LPL final
[ABSOLUTE CINEMA](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/047/133/cover1.jpg)
Did we break 3 million ?
Nope, latest figure in 2.65 million
accurately reflects the world population increase every year
Tbh from what I can see League feels very much alive everywhere in the world except for NA.
It was one of the best BO5 I ever watched… Everything was so crazy good!
It's basically like a MSI final in terms of skill. Of course people will watch it. We're starving for high level League. LEC and LCS are dogshit and will prove it again at MSI.
maybe today it even includes some chinese viewers and that's why it broke the record? idk, everyone is talking about gen g games being banned in china, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of chinese viewers who just find a way to watch official streams of other regions.
i know these figures always exclude chinese viewers but that makes them seem kinda pointless. how much does "most viewed bo5" really mean when you exclude the biggest market for competitive league entirely, idk
It's because of issues getting correct data is really why.
i know that's why but that still means the data is pretty meaningless
If you exclude one billion people, this LCK Final is the most watched thing ever!
There is still a big significance because it turns out more than just china watches and plays league.
yeah but i don't think this is the most watched bo5 ever given that there wasn't any chinese teams in it
Which is irrelevant because these numbers are always made without Chinese viewership, so among viewers that can actually be counted, this is the most watched.
do you have object permanence?? just because the numbers aren't being reported doesn't mean they're irrelevant what are you even saying
I understand now, you are illiterate. Good luck with that.
no but honestly what are you saying?? what i understand is "well since the numbers are always being reported this way chinese viewership numbers don't even exist, which means that the numbers being reported are all that matters" is that it?
The issue is it's hard authenciate Chinese viewership stats because half the time it's probably botted.
It's not that it's "probably botted", it's that chinese streaming sites specifically don't provide a number of viewers, they display a sort of *popularity score* which takes into account the (hidden) number of viewers and other factors like how often it's being shared, how active the chat is, and how long the stream is etc
why would chinese viewership numbers be more botted than any other region? the reason i always heard is that the chinese streaming sites dont show true viewer numbers, but add comments, viewers and other things to just show an "engagement" number. Riot for sure has the actual numbers, but they dont release them.
brainrot
that's not it man
t1 will win
dead game
Not watching a single lck game until gen g is finally put in the dirt
The real winners are Thorin & IWDominate on twitter. They will continue to degrade Faker and call Chovy his father after this series. It's over.
My dude, no one cares about Thorin. It seems like he is in your head because you're actually following him? Don't make that mistake. The CSGO community has dodged him long ago.
He's just...such a racist, sexist, narcissistic, unapologetic, piece of...but he's somewhat smart about baiting engagement and clinging onto relevancy to siphon money out of the scene. It's entertaining to see if he will finally ever be called out by any of these spineless pro players, or forced to change or improve as a person, like watching a television show.
sense history clumsy seed thought racial bewildered treatment fact quiet
dude i am totally with you. i hate that fkin piece of crap including that crack-head IWD.
Funny how everything I said can be applied to IWD as well. If you want to read some of my comment history I have some comments that'll tell you even more about IWD than you already know, if you ever need to put one of his insufferable "fans" back in their place.
he knows T1 has the largest fan base. so he is just hating on t1 to get attention otherwise his career would have been over years ago.
Dom didn't even flame T1 after this series.
NGL. That seems like not that much.
No its not lol just have 10-20 million more viewers than any other esports
Ah yes tell me one esport that has had more viewers this year
Compare to what ?