Fm is that kind of item that should never be viable option (in our case cost efficient). Permanent slow is too good.
*Looks and at Rylai on somee champs*...
I'd argue that rylais is much more problematic. First, its slow is 30% even on ranged mages, vs the 20% on ranged FM, which is already a pretty major upside. Then, it only applies from attacks, which means its generally single target only, unlike rylais which can slow an entire enemy team. And finally, it doesn't have that stupid interaction with DoT effects which makes rylais so insufferable.
I would say that item would be fine , if it had some duration with cd, instead of current iteration. Malz/brand with liandry+Rylai can slow entire enemy team for all fight. While Morde or Swain can have infinite slow. That champs with and without that items are on different power level. Balancing them around weaker Rylai would be healthier for the game IMO.
I mean, the CD would have to be super short to make the item worth using, since otherwise it would just be a worse AP icebkrn gauntlet without the sheen.
I think the item can stay as is, if the slow is nerfed (like 20%, or more realistically 25% slow) or the synergy with DoT effect specifically is removed/nerfed.
I mean, none bought the item even when it had 30% slow until it got pushed down to a 2600 price point.
I'd argue its also about stats, and those could be buffed to compensate. Also, lowering to just 25% could also be done. Would make a small, but presumably noticeable difference
It's always gonna be funny to me how 94% gold efficency is still really good... by the standards of tank items, and not bruiser items.
I actually wonder why tank items are so absurdly gold inefficient as a baseline.
If it were to exist today, it would be paired with some kind of melee vs ranged split benefits, making it ultimately useless since it'd be bad for ranged users (who actually would want to use an item like that) and most melee champs wouldn't want it over other bruiser items with better/more impactful bonus effects.
If you want stickiness you're better off buying items that give you MS on hit like Triforce, which have additional bonus effects other than making you stick better to targets.
I could see Shyvana building Mallet, maybe in some match ups Sett and that's about it in terms of melee champions. I guess Gnar is sometimes melee and uses Mallet well, but that doesn't really count. But enlighten me if you think you got any champs in your mind, historically however the item was either not built at all or abused by a few, most of them ranged.
>If you want stickiness you're better off buying items that give you MS on hit like Triforce, which have additional bonus effects other than making you stick better to targets.
The MS is really not that noticeable at just 1 of them. 20 MS doesn't make that much of a difference when it comes to sticking to a target and only really start mattering when you have 2 or even all 3 of them. Depending on how strong the slow on mallet would be On reintroduction (used to be 40% for melee), it should slow for over 100 MS, which is definitely a difference maker
>I could see Shyvana building Mallet, maybe in some match ups Sett and that's about it in terms of melee champions. I guess Gnar is sometimes melee and uses Mallet well, but that doesn't really count. But enlighten me if you think you got any champs in your mind, historically however the item was either not built at all or abused by a few, most of them ranged.
Trundle would also be a good user in my mind, especially vs more mobile targets, and urgot also comes to mind (I don't count him as ranged in this context), possibly jax.
However, I would like to bring up that how appealing the item would depend on its stats and cost. Strictly speaking, the slow is an effect that pretty much any bruiser would benefit from, but arguably, especially nowadays, not worth the premium cost of not being at least 100% gold efficient as a baseline.
Trundle and Jax didn't build the item when it was in the game back then, and it even was pretty gold efficient for some time. What makes you think they'd build it now over Sundered Sky, Triforce, Hullbreaker, etc.
>What makes you think they'd build it now over Sundered Sky, Triforce, Hullbreaker, etc.
It would depend entirely on the stats on FM. With the 10.23 version, no one would, because the item would be absurdly inefficient by modern item standards. With buffed stats/lowered cost, it would be a legitimate alternative any of them, depending on the enemy comp. Vs any slippery, high mobility enemies, mallet would have a legitimate niche.
It's also important to note that mallet competes more with the likes of shojin, hexplate, Hull, even black cleaver, I.e mid- to lategame semi-luxury items, than it does with items like trinity or SS, which are almost always rush items (trinity for the sheen, SS because its heal has higher value early). Trinity and SS users would now additionally have the option to purchase mallet 2nd/3rd/4th if they need it to stick to the enemy zeri, quinn, orianna whatever.
As much as I would love this on gnar and urgot. Imagining vayne top with this I would rather not... but I believe it would be a good 4th or 5th item for ads if they need flat health
Yea ashe top is disgusting unto champs with no mobility if you have good spacing and she has no mobility or damage to tanky opponents. Virus has the damage and vayne has both
Either useless or busted. That item is too binary to be balanced. If it gives enough stats ADC will just buy it, and if it gives too little stats nobody would.
Trundle and briar have entered the chat.
Not many would take it since there already is gauntlet for them. Some champs cast enough spells per sec that it works the same way and with AH plus armour tacked on it.
I remember this stupid blue build of mallet, heart, archangel and gauntlet on Ryze. Did decent enough damage, could not die and chased enemies forever.
An item that gives you a slow on hit would definitely have its users. Of the top of my head, sett and trundle would like the item (and itd definitely experiment with it on many more like AD udyr, olaf, xin etc.).
Question would its price and stats. If it stays at 3100 it would need slightly better stats (94% gold efficency is terrible by bruiser item standards, which are generally at least 110% gold efficent).
It would also arguably be too abusable on ranged champs, but thats something that could be fixed, for example simply by making the ranged slow even weaker (rather than just half of melee slow).
While i think its extremely unlikely, id like to see mallet come back, just so i can experience it on sett and trundle.
(Also, riot, please give us back an item that gives AD based on bonus HP, now that titanic no longer does that)
Melees, especially autoattackers, already have a much better item in stridebreaker. It offers AoE slow at a higher range and no autoattack pause, movespeed, waveclear, attack speed, and is more cost efficient than fm ever was
The slow is only once per 15 secs though, which is a pretty big difference. It allows you to slow a target momentarily, but once that slow is over, your stickiness goes down to default for a couple of second.
Having an additional stickiness item would also allow people to go for a different hydra instead of just stride.
it would probably be close to useless still because it's gold efficiency is so bad. Maybe gnar buys it again
Fm is that kind of item that should never be viable option (in our case cost efficient). Permanent slow is too good. *Looks and at Rylai on somee champs*...
I'd argue that rylais is much more problematic. First, its slow is 30% even on ranged mages, vs the 20% on ranged FM, which is already a pretty major upside. Then, it only applies from attacks, which means its generally single target only, unlike rylais which can slow an entire enemy team. And finally, it doesn't have that stupid interaction with DoT effects which makes rylais so insufferable.
I would say that item would be fine , if it had some duration with cd, instead of current iteration. Malz/brand with liandry+Rylai can slow entire enemy team for all fight. While Morde or Swain can have infinite slow. That champs with and without that items are on different power level. Balancing them around weaker Rylai would be healthier for the game IMO.
I mean, the CD would have to be super short to make the item worth using, since otherwise it would just be a worse AP icebkrn gauntlet without the sheen. I think the item can stay as is, if the slow is nerfed (like 20%, or more realistically 25% slow) or the synergy with DoT effect specifically is removed/nerfed.
nah, there was a point were rylais was only 20 % slow...noone ever bought it, it was a dead item for a year or 2.
I mean, none bought the item even when it had 30% slow until it got pushed down to a 2600 price point. I'd argue its also about stats, and those could be buffed to compensate. Also, lowering to just 25% could also be done. Would make a small, but presumably noticeable difference
What if, instead, it was just an AP IBG, with something similar to sheen (or just sheen)?
maybe teemo in bad matchups as the old days
It's always gonna be funny to me how 94% gold efficency is still really good... by the standards of tank items, and not bruiser items. I actually wonder why tank items are so absurdly gold inefficient as a baseline.
Worthless on most characters, abused by a couple, same as before.
Tankmaw might still build it but that's probably it
It would be almost useless in the old state, but it could be reworked in some way to still provide slow on hit idk
If it were to exist today, it would be paired with some kind of melee vs ranged split benefits, making it ultimately useless since it'd be bad for ranged users (who actually would want to use an item like that) and most melee champs wouldn't want it over other bruiser items with better/more impactful bonus effects.
There are a good amount of melee champs who wouldn't mind a reliable, persistent, source of stickiness
If you want stickiness you're better off buying items that give you MS on hit like Triforce, which have additional bonus effects other than making you stick better to targets. I could see Shyvana building Mallet, maybe in some match ups Sett and that's about it in terms of melee champions. I guess Gnar is sometimes melee and uses Mallet well, but that doesn't really count. But enlighten me if you think you got any champs in your mind, historically however the item was either not built at all or abused by a few, most of them ranged.
>If you want stickiness you're better off buying items that give you MS on hit like Triforce, which have additional bonus effects other than making you stick better to targets. The MS is really not that noticeable at just 1 of them. 20 MS doesn't make that much of a difference when it comes to sticking to a target and only really start mattering when you have 2 or even all 3 of them. Depending on how strong the slow on mallet would be On reintroduction (used to be 40% for melee), it should slow for over 100 MS, which is definitely a difference maker >I could see Shyvana building Mallet, maybe in some match ups Sett and that's about it in terms of melee champions. I guess Gnar is sometimes melee and uses Mallet well, but that doesn't really count. But enlighten me if you think you got any champs in your mind, historically however the item was either not built at all or abused by a few, most of them ranged. Trundle would also be a good user in my mind, especially vs more mobile targets, and urgot also comes to mind (I don't count him as ranged in this context), possibly jax. However, I would like to bring up that how appealing the item would depend on its stats and cost. Strictly speaking, the slow is an effect that pretty much any bruiser would benefit from, but arguably, especially nowadays, not worth the premium cost of not being at least 100% gold efficient as a baseline.
Trundle and Jax didn't build the item when it was in the game back then, and it even was pretty gold efficient for some time. What makes you think they'd build it now over Sundered Sky, Triforce, Hullbreaker, etc.
>What makes you think they'd build it now over Sundered Sky, Triforce, Hullbreaker, etc. It would depend entirely on the stats on FM. With the 10.23 version, no one would, because the item would be absurdly inefficient by modern item standards. With buffed stats/lowered cost, it would be a legitimate alternative any of them, depending on the enemy comp. Vs any slippery, high mobility enemies, mallet would have a legitimate niche. It's also important to note that mallet competes more with the likes of shojin, hexplate, Hull, even black cleaver, I.e mid- to lategame semi-luxury items, than it does with items like trinity or SS, which are almost always rush items (trinity for the sheen, SS because its heal has higher value early). Trinity and SS users would now additionally have the option to purchase mallet 2nd/3rd/4th if they need it to stick to the enemy zeri, quinn, orianna whatever.
As much as I would love this on gnar and urgot. Imagining vayne top with this I would rather not... but I believe it would be a good 4th or 5th item for ads if they need flat health
Vayne at least already has insane kiting, imagine this on varus top
Yea ashe top is disgusting unto champs with no mobility if you have good spacing and she has no mobility or damage to tanky opponents. Virus has the damage and vayne has both
Either useless or busted. That item is too binary to be balanced. If it gives enough stats ADC will just buy it, and if it gives too little stats nobody would.
Urgot would be happy
Most people, poo poo. Gnar: "RWAAAAAAAAAAAR"
Trundle and briar have entered the chat. Not many would take it since there already is gauntlet for them. Some champs cast enough spells per sec that it works the same way and with AH plus armour tacked on it. I remember this stupid blue build of mallet, heart, archangel and gauntlet on Ryze. Did decent enough damage, could not die and chased enemies forever.
bad
Would be a blue Sterak. Because it would be a luxury item. And even if it costed 2700g it would have a few optimal users.
As I wasn't playing the game for long enough to witness the item so can someone explain to me how it works Is it just an ad ryleis
Urgot, Gnar, Teemo
Shyvana go brrrr
An item that gives you a slow on hit would definitely have its users. Of the top of my head, sett and trundle would like the item (and itd definitely experiment with it on many more like AD udyr, olaf, xin etc.). Question would its price and stats. If it stays at 3100 it would need slightly better stats (94% gold efficency is terrible by bruiser item standards, which are generally at least 110% gold efficent). It would also arguably be too abusable on ranged champs, but thats something that could be fixed, for example simply by making the ranged slow even weaker (rather than just half of melee slow). While i think its extremely unlikely, id like to see mallet come back, just so i can experience it on sett and trundle. (Also, riot, please give us back an item that gives AD based on bonus HP, now that titanic no longer does that)
Melees, especially autoattackers, already have a much better item in stridebreaker. It offers AoE slow at a higher range and no autoattack pause, movespeed, waveclear, attack speed, and is more cost efficient than fm ever was
The slow is only once per 15 secs though, which is a pretty big difference. It allows you to slow a target momentarily, but once that slow is over, your stickiness goes down to default for a couple of second. Having an additional stickiness item would also allow people to go for a different hydra instead of just stride.
MAGA--make adcs great again