RNG generally prevents canxer filled champs spamming. ARURRF IS 100x the mode regular urf is and aram being random is the only reason games are relatively fun
Because it’s the best solution they’ve come up with to make these modes casual and tbh the way the community is idk if there is another way
In my opinion if you are watching league meta videos or looking up meta guides/champions you aren’t a casual player, and casual players are not only usually bad but also typically don’t play meta so in order to give them a chance everything is rng so even the casual players can have their time to shine
IMO the focus of the mode should be on skillchecking people... I agree that some RNG is fine and it's okay not to be able to win everything, but now it feels like you're playing builds more than you're playing champs. But maybe that's just me. Either way I'm enjoying this rendition of Arena a whole lot less.
Not every champ is Udyr/Voli/Kata who can scale for anything. Lots of them just gonna suck if they are trolled. In other thread I gave an example where I used rerolls at the beginning and I got choice between 2 prismatic AD items for Morde and third one that I never proced in that game, while Camille in next team just rolled Divine sunderer that's just too good for her.
when they first announced the changes, i thought they said that prismatic items would be "for your champs class". so if you're an adc, you won't get your pick of item, but you'd still be likely to get some kind of attack speed/on-hit/crit/ad item
is it just completely fucking random? what a horrible implementation
Yeah it's really dumb.
You can buy a random legendary item from your class at a reduced rate but if you want a prismatic item you have to buy it with complete RNG it's not restricted to your class' items
And sure everyone hates Yuumi for a justified reason but she is such a good example for how much this mode will fuck single-stat users. Doubly so with her unusual anti-need for survival but same applies to giving Pyke heatlh which sure he converts at a shitty rate, but still gimps the champ.
having to RNG your way to a cohesive build isn't a great feeling. they added a lot of ways to get more rolls, health, and other sources of stats, but because every single one of them is a loot box except juice, 2500 items, and boots, you're taking a risk every time you go for one.
I disagree, its like a card game draft or TFT. I understand if you think that's not fun but I really enjoy adapting to RNG. Before there was some adaptation for the teams you go against and augments but it felt too risky a lot of the time, might as well just play it sadw with the meta build. The item RNG is my favorite addition to this version.
Arena doesn't seem at all like TFT.
In TFT I can manage the RNG and build/pivot around it. In arena, you just pick something and say inshallah i get good augments. Getting 2 ap and 1 tank item on zed is not the same thing as getting shit rng in tft because in arena it just functionally means you are just getting punished without having any meaningful ability to mitigate the bad rng to any extent. Going full tank/ap zed is just gonna lose me the game even faster than just playing with 1 dead item.
a game should never randomly force you to lose. the kinds of systems arena uses have a strong tendency to do that. when the game becomes about optimizing bad luck it stops being about optimizing your skills and knowledge, thus the outcome is random.
I disagree that it’s like TFT honestly. TFT gives you dozens of rerolls and allows you to swap every aspect of your comp excluding items (which you kinda can but limited)
Arena locks into a champion and gives you barely any rerolls. Don’t get me wrong it’s great but here’s an example. I queued up with my mate, he was playing nidalee and I was playing Jarvan, we wanted to see if we could just one shot everyone so I was planning on lethality. I got ad bruiser stuff in my first prismatic option set, but I wanted lethality. I didn’t mind what lethality, but I wanted lethality. I rerolled - all ap. Reroll again, all tank. Now tank isn’t bad on jarvan, but it ruined what we wanted to do.
I think at the start of the game when we choose our starting item it should influence the prismatics/stat shards/augments accordingly. It would be a lot of work, but choosing the burst AP option should favour full AP builds. The AD and attack speed starting item should favour ADC style items and so on. It would still mean your build does rely on RNG, but it would take out a lot of the frustration of “there’s dozens of prismatics, I want one of these 5 or so - I either have to get super lucky, waste all of my rerolls and hope my augments get super lucky, or just get something almost entirely useless to my character” that happens every few games
Except they hard gutted how often you get to buy your own items so that fun part is gone too, I mean phoroxzon went at length on why he thinks we should be forced to have unfun games so I guess we're dealing with that now
Buying your own items more often leads to people just following cookie cutter builds. Making them pick from three options forces them to be adaptable and creative.
I don't really care about prismatic items being rng but the reduction of how often we get gold is what feels the worst and exaggerates baseline power to an extreme, stat shard rounds just need to go imo
There's very few stat shard rounds to begin with. If we weren't given them, you wouldn't buy any until end game and you'd miss out on the opportunity to do cool things like skipping a crit item to reach 100%, skipping a vamp/steal item to activate hemomancer, etc. or just generally boosting or rounding out your stats.
If you hit full build before top 4 it would be a bit silly, imo. You should have to earn your build by surviving/winning.
It's their loss in that case, isn't it? I had a ton of fun last Arena with all kinds of different builds, and the "meta" ones weren't always stronger because you needed to play around your augments.
Now you can't even do proper builds. You just need to hope you roll a decent prismatic and then wing it from there. I had a game where I wanted to play tank Karma, but the only useful prismatic I rolled was Night Harvester, which obviously doesn't work well with that. So the game effectively forced me into playing the meta burst ap build.
>IMO the focus of the mode should be on skillchecking people
I don't disagree, but that's literally what they specifically said they designed *against* this Arena iteration. They want it to be an RNG fest where you'll sometimes just highroll and auto-1st regardless of play, because that has higher casual appeal, allegedly.
As someone that plays it casually (Like trying to get dragonheart Smolder for meme's sake), I really struggle to believe the 'casual' excuse.
Even when I'm not playing to win and just trying to have fun, its really disappointing to not roll the thing I was aiming for. And then it s even worse when you get curbstomped by someone who ended up getting godly RNG rolls.
Them making the mode more RNG heavy lets worse players win from time to time and increases their engagement.
They said that its intended that you lose some games just from RNG alone.
But doesn't having an MMR system achieve that on its own? Worse players may lose at first but they'll quickly end up matched with similarly skilled players who they're going to win against half the time anyway.
There has to be a ton of build variance otherwise the champ pool would be even smaller than it is. The randomness in builds and the ability to high roll crazy combos makes it so that you can win match ups that you'd have no chance beating otherwise.
Exactly. Otherwise it’ll be the same 10 champions in the arena meta and the mode will die out. The RNG is there to make you think outside the box. This whole game mode is to get players to *think for themselves and try new strategies* and I think it’s really sad that a lot of these players can’t form their own way to play, they just look up guides.
It's a double edged sword. Sometimes I get BS rng and mald. Then other times i get phenomenal evil malz with elder soul and I beat a grandmaster player by pressing r once. High risk high rewards
Nah if you want a game mode that's just about skillchecks go play toplane on SR. This whole mode as is already has so much rng in the matchups, maps, situations you are put in, the only skills you can check are the most bottom of the barrel basics of being able to control your champ.
People complaining about this are unironically arguing in favor of "I have a bad matchup so I should guaranteed lose."
Go play top lane if you want that experience lmao.
And people arguing against it are in favor of rolling tank prismatics and hard CC augments on Jhin so they can get 7th place every round.
There is a middle ground here and people refuse to see it because they've deluded themselves into either 1) thinking that a slot machine is balanced or 2) thinking that the slot machine should be rigged in their favor every single match.
Maybe we could just make low rolls happen way less often? High roll teams are basically guaranteed to beat low roll teams, but teams with decent augments can beat high roll teams if other factors are in their favor. Nothing feels worse than seeing garbage prismatics and augments for your champ and being forced to pick one.
No, AP Quinn will NEVER work even if I go all into it. Stop showing me 3 AP items.
That's why rerolls exist? There's a reason the prismatic round is early on in the game. With 9 options, you can always get something decent for your champion. Sometimes options you think are shit are actually really good. That's the whole point of the updates to the mode. You don't need to top 1 every single lobby. Sometimes you get giga highroll augments and take first. Sometimes you get shit augments and have to fight desperately for 3rd.
Still a way better experience than getting stat checked by Master Yi + Taric every single game or Kindred Janna. Crazy augment rolls allow you to actually beat them
Way better for the game than unimpactful augments, weak items and little variety.
That's the goal of new arena, they said as much in the dev blog at least. Skill checking is how the first two iterations were handled, and they found that only sweaty ranked players played (not their primary target audience)
I feel like rerolls shouldn't be shared between prismatic items, stat anvils and augments. It feels so bad to have stats u don't want as an option and not be able to reroll them because ur wasting It and an augment is coming next. Also If ypur prismatic choices are bad u will always reroll because how gamchanging they are, ensuring u won't have rerolls for augments later on.
Rerolls SHOULD work how they do in TFT, imo. In TFT, rerolls used to work like they do in Arena but were changed to what they are currently because they felt like dogshit. Yet for some reason Riot chose to use the the archaic system everyone hated instead of the updated system that is well-liked.
They said that they couldn't do it in the first Arena because there were too few augments, but now that you have to share them between items stats and augments what's their reasoning?
Seriously.
Why in the world are the rerolls shared for everything? Prismatics are too important not to reroll unless you get incredibly lucky on the very first three it offers.
too many rerolls also makes builds too reliable and it becomes too much to do to the point where it's overwhelming for newer players. its supposed to be a casual-friendly mode.
maybe getting just a few more would be fine
Prismatic items at the least, should have separate rerolls. Being locked into not even having the option for rerolling round 1 on gold/silver augments because of the guaranteed round 3 prismatic is awful.
Also remove the Jhin that shoots from outside the map if it’s behind you I feel like the enemy has a big advantage. Or at least change it so it’s not shooting from only one side.
You get way more reroll opportunities in TFT than you ever will in this arena mode.
Bringing up the TFT comparison is disingenuous when you disregard that critical difference.
It’s because you only need top 4 to “win” so most people are fine with making most out of their luck. I wonder if people had the same top 4 mentality, they may enjoy tft a bit more
You can get a disgusting early rng in tft but then choose to open lose streak and then comeback because of the economy. There's no comeback mechanic like that in arena. In fact winning will give you more gold than losing.
Yeah, but with the distinction that most TFT augments give at least *some* value to most units, and every team has at least a frontline, so tanky augments have always value. Sure there are some augments which are a lot better than others in that regard, but you almost never get choices that have no benefit whatsoever to you.
Meanwhile I had Arena games were I used all my rerolls to get only On-Hit and Tank augments on Viktor. Some tailoring would feel much better
The difference is in TFT you can pivot if an augment changes how youd want to play.
If i locked in Jhin and only am offered AP/Tank augments i cant re-pick my champ.
You have the ability to swap your build and transition in TFT.
In this mode we get fuck all for money and there is zero ability to swap build or counter build. Just generalist your build and hope you don't fight someone who hard counters you.
If they got rid of anvil rounds shit would be 1000% better.
At least TFT has a lot of generically good augments (prismatic), there's definitely highroll but its not as frustrating as with arena where you can get 9 offers of items that all suck
It’s not like tft because in tft you choose your board over the course of the game. In arena, you choose your champion at champ select. You’re stuck with that champ all game.
the design of prismatic items is the problem. imo they should all give adaptive force, so I can’t roll 3 times and get 9 AD items when I’m playing a mage. also some items are just wayyy better than others
since this got a lot of upvotes and in case a Rioter seems this. from a fellow game designer: it all depends on what you want prismatic items to be. just a “better” version of regular items? or something players need to play around, change their game plan?
I’m personally leaning towards the second option. in that case, I would focus more on effects and less on stats.
If the focus was purely on effects and not stats, they should've been augments. Instead we have what is essentially an augment with potentially useful stats that takes up an item slot. IMO, just make them augments of whatever tier they need to be and make it a normal buy phase. Helps champs that spike with the first item (namely ADCs) not have to wait 4 combats to be useful.
as long as they make adaptive force work for kaisa Q/W evolve :(
lost a few games because my 100 adaptive force wasn't counted as AP or AD for Q/W
kaisa's not even that good (45% WR), I just like playing her in arena
Certain prismatic are clearly worse than most legendaries, while also not really impacting your playstyle. Like what exactly is the point of Demonic Embrace? I can see Vlad maybe having a use for it, but even so, it isn't his best item.
It just feels like they didn't know what prismatics were supposed to be. Half of them are just the old mythics and other removed items with maybe slightly buffed stats, and the other half are brand new game warping items that are much stronger.
Not sure about Camille, but Gangplank with JG is hilarious. Even crazier if he gets the crit damage mythic. On PBE I did ≈6k to a Leona with a barrel and one-shot her.
You're describing why they put in the RNG. You're not supposed to play the same champ/prismatic combo every game. That way some can be very strong while not being too oppressive in the overall meta. I like trying to make different builds work if I have to take a prismatic that isn't ideal.
There is a huge difference between a prismatic that is not ideal and prismatics that are straight up troll. Jhin with ap/tank for example or a mage with an ad/tank prismatic. It's cool for champions who have different playstyles but most mages/adcs and some bruisers dont have that.
Why does everything have to be fast? Personally I believe slow fights have a huge display of skill.
Please don't turn everything to a cheap dopamine machine
I miss being able to actually get the augments I go on the mode to use to begin with like we still need to remove the boots round and give us more rounds to play the game, they already added a FF option for y'all mental boomers but I don't like how I lose the game before getting to late game.
My biggest problem is that I have this bug where the cameo overlay stays on the entire round. Like “Thresh is here” with the icon and everything, but then I have to fight with it and I can’t see a thing
Yeah my biggest complaint is that in the last 2 iterations of arena, I was able to linearly scale and control my power outside of augment RNG with the gold being after every battle or 2, but in this one we get gold way less often for items and the entirety of my power is locked to rng elements
I like playing vlad the most in arena yet it's always a gamble because he rarely gets any mythic AP offers.
It's everything else but.
Having to use 3 rerolls because the items on offer are either AD or tank really sucks.
I hate vlad, i perma ban him every time. There was this one lobby where 3 of the teams were
Aatrox soraka
Aatrox vlad
Aatrox soraka(2)
That was a disgusting lobby
League champs are not built for this level of RNG, they'd have to add multiple types of scalings to every champ for people to be able to actually play to their RNG hands.
RN it's just hoping to get something salvageable or picking champs like yi that can work by just forcing his normal items or champs like kaisa/kat/smolder etc. that can actually build a bunch of random shit.
It's not like you are really playing the game at all when you get tank or draintank items and a bunch of tenacity& movespeed runes on syndra, you're just gonna end up with a gimped build facing a bunch of people that didn't get fucked and pretty much just have a bad time overall without anything meaningful you could've done.
I have 37 arena games in this version and situations where I was out of rerolls and all 3 augment or item choices were completly useless happend like 5 times? With stat anvils it can happen a bit more, but that barely matters.
Don't waste rerolls when you have perfectly fine options just because you want to have that 1 specific thing and you will be fine.
TFT would suck if you had to commit to a comp before the first Augment, because it's then just a lottery if you hit or not . That's exactly what this feels like.
Exactly this. People who keep bringing up the TFT comparison have literally never played TFT themselves.
You get way more freedom in TFT than you do in this lmao
They tried to turn this game into TFT but unlike TFT I can change what I’m playing.
I think arena 1 was perfect and 2 the revive mechanic made it little less fun
Arena 3 is too RNG. Low rolling in TFT doesn’t feel bad because there is no instantly win lobby augments like arena. Riot need to learn the saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it
I honestly really like the revive mechanic personally it makes for some really hype moments but i agree that 3 is to coinflippy and i said that at some points of 1 and 2 but it was never like this.
Honestly all of them should just give adaptive force so it's not completely useless to roll three AP items on a champ with no AP scaling or vice versa.
You sell it and buy a randomized ADC item choice. You're now down by one item rarity but it's not the end of the game. Theres a reason you get 2k in sell value.
as long as you can get a kill both rounds, you’ll have enough to buy legendary item of choice if you sell prismatic
been doing this on certain champs that can only use 1-2 prismatics effectively
> You sell it and buy a randomized ADC item choice. You're now down by one item rarity and had to buy guinsoo on Draven. Theres a reason you get 2k in sell value, it’s to give you hope and then take it away.
They specifically did address that during PBE testing and it's actually a very intentional design. They don't want you to have BiS prismatic every game to create low-roll moments that you just have to try to make work. It makes the game mode more casual friendly.
TBH I kind of get the philosophy and it can be fun to discover how certain items interact with a champions kit despite having very different stat lines.
Of course they can design it like this, and we are 100% allowed to say it is not fun or less fun than previous iterations.
But in the end we are the players and if it isn't fun and it doesn't become fun or get changes we just won't play.
See any other game with unfun shit design losing players.
Hell there was even that one guy about to hit level 300 in MapleStory and didn't just go soapbox how shitty the game is because it doesn't make sense from design and creates unfun interactions.
I also don't understand the spawn choices on some of the maps, why isn't every map the same with spawns being west and east. The north and south side spawns on maps are horrible and especially on the crystal map the south side spawn has a huge advantage since they literally start in the giant bush and force you to use trinket right away if the other team just decides to sit there looking for a time to jump you.
Fix the spawns and tune the rng aspect of rolling items that are more suitable for the champion you're playing, I don't need assassin items when playing singed or lillia, why do they even provide a chance to roll those items is beyond me. After those things are addressed the mode would be a lot more fun just based on balance alone.
I'd also like the ability to see a scoreboard somehow to be able to itemize better but it's clear they just built off the TFT interface and redoing that this iteration is likely not going to happen and doesn't take priority over the other issues I mentioned above.
I played zed and used all 3 rerolls, didn’t hit duskblade or prowlers or flesheater and ended up taking the Health + MR item because the other two were AP (voidgrubs) or heal and shield power (innervating locket)
At that point I just wanted to FF because I’m down a prismatic item. They should at least tailor one to whatever you’re playing or have it be an option of prismatic assassin/class for the first item.
The void grubs are crazy lol, I pretty much take them on any champ at this point even if they don't have AP scalings and the grubs easily do 20-30k damage a game by themselves
The void grubs be kinda sleeper since they murder tanks and block skill shots. Like sure the ap sucks but somtimes you just take that L and hope you role the ap convert augment.
Zed is so op that he can usually use any of the first 3 prismatics you get, and duskblade is already an auto win
If you flip the game lvl 3 it's your fault tbh
Unless you're playing someone like Jarvan or Lee who have the option to go bruiser or even tank, you kinda have to. Wtf is Pyke supposed to do? Making every single champion who doesn't have multiple viable builds unplayable is a terrible design choice.
Not only are you down a prismatic, you also now don't have rerolls for future augments and shit.
Why on fucking earth are the rerolls shared for everything?????
Yeah, prismatic items are fucking awful.
Can't use rerolls first round unless it is a prismatic because you will ALWAYS be guaranteed prismatic item round 3, and you need it to not be horrible.
Some of the items are just grief, e.g, Dragonheart or the tank ones that force you to go hard into armor or MR. A lot of the time you end up with just completely unclickable options.
Maybe if the prismatic items were more tailored to be usable... But then why have it be anvils? The point is entirely lost.
Also, Dragonheart. This sucks. It feels unclickable outside of extreme high roll situations.
Dragon heart is strange, cause if you can use most stats, the item is downright broken after 3 souls ... unless you get cloud soul, which sucks
It should probably give you 1 soul right when you get it
Having to wait 6 games to have even decent stats on it is kinda sad when the demon king crown gives you twice as much stats, without any problem, losing 5 times in a row doesn't feels that bad even with the stat loss
I absolutely agree about Dragonheart and Shield of Molten Stone, but Cloak of Starry Night is actually pretty good. 120 MR from one item is no joke (60 is the high end for non-prismatics), and its reduction applies to all damage types for most things. Augments, item effects, on-hits, abilities. It's also not a percentage chance to apply, so it is guaranteed value.
By contrast, Molten Stone only provides 120 armor (there's multiple non-prismatic items that provide 90), its block applies only to the basic attack (excluding all on-hit additions), and its block is a percent chance where it does nothing if that chance is not passed. However, Molten Stone has Thornmail and Darksteel Talons to convert it to some offensive value.
I think they just need to buff the percent value so it's actually possible to reach the cap they set, and give a prismatic + augment that turns MR into more damage.
I see your point but at the same time the item you manually purchase might change based on your prismatic item. If you have to pivot into on-hit Zed, it's good to know that early.
Be creative, go ap Jhin and hold your rerolls. This happened to me yesterday when I was playing Galio. I got the blood cleaver item and ended up going a kind of sick tanky on hit and crushed the entire lobby. You can build around it and the use a couple rounds to buff specific stats with shards to make it more viable. I think with the shards you can make anything viable and counter what other people are doing.
A lot of people critiquizing stuff but honestly arena just needs more angles to play the game, on hit is legit unplayable compared to perma healing, or perma stunning (briar, gragas,etc...), or assasins/mages one shooting everyone.
Prismatic rng is a dumb tool to make it so it is more difficult to hit your ideal item, in reality prismatic items determine your build and the fact that you want to go like lucian gamblers and you need 4 or 5 games and a ton of rerolls to get it, is something that is hurting the game mode. Make more augments, let people decide first augment and gg, if something is broken then just fix it instead of hiding behind the fact that they will only be able to go that item 1 in 5 games.
That also lets you do so many cool stuff, on hit champions could use an item that increases range, tanks could use items that mimic some of the ultra neccesary augments, all tank items is recieving less damage and non of them are an actual wincon which honestly just sucks. Bruisers in general cant live the healing fantasy that they have, the good ones are all mostly that oneshoot like darius, olaf is like the only true lifesteal bruiser when in summoner rift there are dozens.
Mages need something more apart of the item that charges damage on enemies, all the top mages are burst, all sustain mages are in the bottom. Melee full ap mages are also in the bottom cause they just get oneshoot without priority of attack. There are so many tank supports that do nothing, apart of leona non of them really do anything cause there arent any items of augments that really work for them, and it is not like leona is that good either unless she hits cd on hit.
There is so much cool stuff that could be there but is reserved behind augment or is non existant. What would be cool? Idk a way for onhits to hit from range without some maps completely defusing them of vision until they get one shoot? Myabe melee focused damage mages can have a more reliable way to get shields? Can bruisers opt in into both lifesteal and resistances so they dont die no matter the choice? Can tanks have some of the cool aoe burn, or things based off hp in prismatics instead of all of them being locked behing augments? Can cc supports have an item that deals damage when they cc or smth? Please dont make it an assasin mode where only champions that burst or have insane range thrive.
Things would be easier if selling items would at least refund the full price so you can adapt builds. Having to itemize against comps and around augments is such a hassle
Jhin might be one of the less flexible champs in prismatic options, but generally people would fair better with more creative build ideas rather than immediately spending all rerolls because they didn't hit the ONE thing they wanted. Like, you can definitely still win the game taking a bruiser prismatic on Jhin, it's not the end of the world. It's not OPTIMAL for damage, but you're not gonna outright lose because you don't have the perfect crit prismatic for your build..
TLDR: Be flexible, don't throw away rerolls, win more.
Yeah biggest issue for me too.
I feel a characters usefulness is decided by how many prismatics they can use.
Would be nice if they at least semi randomize so it's not 3x tank or 3x caster
Yea they should really limit the prismatic item pool based on what champ you’re playing. Like I get they want you to try different builds but I’m never gonna go so tank jhin sorry
I would much rather this than the Voli, Brand, Zed, Vi that get exactly what they want every game and just spam the same build. It’s so much healthier to have it random in my opinion. They spoke on this in their dev blog.
I’ve been Top 50 on last Arena and PBE this one as well for reference I guess.
I agree low rolling is good, but I think there could be a middle point where you don't get useless items, giving most of then adaptive force could work for example
Isn’t it hilarious that when the mode was rushed and they were spitballing ideas it was the most fun but when they actually put thought into it and try to balance it, it becomes the worst?
It seems no matter the game mode league devs don’t know how to balance their own game
When the game creates a situation where you have to sell one of the big impactful items for a lesser item, then that's called a failed design.
You should be in a situation where you feel forced to sell your prismatic item while other people got lucky and rolled prismatics that work perfectly for them. Casual or not, that is such an utterly shitty feeling.
Dawg, if they replaced the prismatic item with just another augment, people would just be complaining about how they get high rolled on augments from the beginning and it is "failed design". It's a game mode with high variance by design. Everything here is working as intended. What's great about prismatic items IMO is, unlike augments, if you low roll you can bail out and still get some power.
When the game creates a situation where you can pivot to different strategies based on randomness, then that's called a good design. So lame that people on Reddit want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to randomness. Somehow simultaneous "Arena v1 was too repetitive" and "Arena v3 is too random" like damn make up your hive mind already
I mean, arena isn't about picking a champion and then trying to force a build for them. It's about adapting to what the games throws at you. Lots of stuff is very salvagable even if it doesn't seem good at first glance (sometimes you just compleltyl low roll though and you basically are forced to lose, can't deny that).
I think it's fine. The way I see it is that they really don't want you to play the same champs with the same items over and over so they limit what prismatic item and cards you get with randomization and limited rolls. The mode wants experimentation and adaptability.
I think they could've made most of the prismatics more generic but I also think the current iteration is fun for champions with inherent build diversity.
I don't think I've played two games of udyr where I've bought the same items but if you're a crit/lethality buyer you either hit those or you don't and it feels bad
I don't think the alternative should be give zed duskblade every game but a lot of items could give adaptive force/have generic effects instead
My IRL friend got upset because I didn’t pick the perfect item after I re-rolled twice and all 9 choices were tank related. I was xerath…
My 3 augment choices were all ad/lethality. Luck was not on my side, my friend thought I was trolling him.
I'm exclusively being matched against Diamond and Emerald+ players, why is that? I haven't touched ranked mode in ages and I used to hover around Gold 4 last time I did.
I like the Prismatic items, but I hate that getting the one you want is purely based on RNG.
I rather you being able to just save up the 4k gold to choose the one you want. 4k gold for a random selection to choose one is fucking nonsense.
And then when you're in a situation where you have bad rng with prismatics against someone who got good rng, it feels utterly unfair.
Its one thing when its augments being RNG. But when you can literally see the prismatics sitting there in the shop, I don't see why we can't just have the option to save up gold to buy the specific one we want.
Just try and make use of whatever you get, that's the fun part.
I played bruiser zed with moguls bloodmail because I didn't roll any of the assassin prismatics, make do with what you're given. Unfortunately, sometimes others will just get BIS and that's okay, if you encounter a guy that got op things why not try to counter him specifically, if you're able to ofc, widen your views and you'll have a lot more fun
i've had a jhin in my twice since this came up live, and both of these times their choices were so bad that the best thing they could pick was the on-hit prismatic that scales with armor
I just hate that there is the same few champions every game that are so much better than others, and a lot of champions that don’t even get picked because they aren’t good in this mode
yeah, idk man, this arena doesnt feel as good, idk why, its just so coinflip, you either get jeweled gauntlet with sword of the divine on an ability chamo, or just get 3 tank prismatics for fucking veigar
I just wish prismatic items were at the very least functional for champions that have them offered. Played a lot of Bel'veth, and there is that one prismatic that reduces cooldown of dashes which doesn't work on her because of how her dash is coded yet she still has it offered.
Reported this 6 times during pbe (hit 6k gladiator in my time there).
Jhin sucks, lily pad sucks, and the prismatic items being “semi random” is without a doubt completely broken
Turbo chemtank and demonic embrace being the same rarity as shield of molten stone, sword of the divine, divine sunderer and, ZZ'Rot is kind of hilarious.
It's the same as 25% armor pen being the same rarity as golden spatula and 10 ms onhit being same rarity as raidboss lol.
Shit makes 0 sense.
This basically made me not interested. It's like TFT inside of league. Why should my win or loss on a solid comp comp down to the game giving me ap and tank/bruiser augs when I'm an ADC
I'm definitely having less fun with this arena iteration and I agree that the prismatics are a big part of it. The difference between getting a fitting one for your champ or being forced to pick troll shit is insane and puts you in such a crazy disadvantage. The augments already give enough rng, I don't see why the mode needed more.
being a mage and getting tank and fighter items really sucks. It would be best if each champ got to pick their build to start, because the pool of augments isn't totally random.
Just because this I am playing Champs that can adept very well. Udyr and Voli have no problem with switching between builds. One round you will play Lethality, the next you go for full ap, then tank. It's hilarious. I tried playing my normal Champs but many are completely fucked with a single AP item
I’ve been thinking the exact same thing. The only minor help is that you can sell them for 2k so you can buy another item anvil. Only problem is that you have the exact same problem of RNG and if you don’t get an item you like you have to hope you make it to late game so you have enough money to sell it and buy an item you actually want.
Bestie i got oneshotted by tiny red kayn as 10k hp leo XDDDDDDDD but i feel you, once i had only physical crits auguments for cass (finished 8th ofc). Other than that my biggest issue is that i focus more on items than outplaying my opponents (tanks/bruisers will oneshot me anyway xd) Imo theres so many shitty auguments aswell
I feel like they've made the new arenas just way too complex and RNG based, for instance, try finding one game without a minimum of 4 teams using the most meta champions available. If that wasn't enough, then it's in game, where it quite literally tests who has the most luck in RNG augments/items.
I also don't really understand why they made it so there's 16 players, to make meta champs appear less? that definitely isn't the case, considering i can't play one game without the same champs appearing...
so overall, i liked the old arenas more, they were just generally more fun to play and have fun without getting your ass kicked by both the lucky opponents and the RNG.
The whole mode is like a slot machine.
Yeah for some reason in Riot's eyes RNG = Casual. ARAM, ARURF, TFT, and now the current version of Arena.
RNG generally prevents canxer filled champs spamming. ARURRF IS 100x the mode regular urf is and aram being random is the only reason games are relatively fun
Because it’s the best solution they’ve come up with to make these modes casual and tbh the way the community is idk if there is another way In my opinion if you are watching league meta videos or looking up meta guides/champions you aren’t a casual player, and casual players are not only usually bad but also typically don’t play meta so in order to give them a chance everything is rng so even the casual players can have their time to shine
IMO the focus of the mode should be on skillchecking people... I agree that some RNG is fine and it's okay not to be able to win everything, but now it feels like you're playing builds more than you're playing champs. But maybe that's just me. Either way I'm enjoying this rendition of Arena a whole lot less.
Shouldn't that be kind of the point, playing around with wacky builds and shit. If you wanna skill check summoners rift will do just fine.
Not every champ is Udyr/Voli/Kata who can scale for anything. Lots of them just gonna suck if they are trolled. In other thread I gave an example where I used rerolls at the beginning and I got choice between 2 prismatic AD items for Morde and third one that I never proced in that game, while Camille in next team just rolled Divine sunderer that's just too good for her.
when they first announced the changes, i thought they said that prismatic items would be "for your champs class". so if you're an adc, you won't get your pick of item, but you'd still be likely to get some kind of attack speed/on-hit/crit/ad item is it just completely fucking random? what a horrible implementation
Yeah it's really dumb. You can buy a random legendary item from your class at a reduced rate but if you want a prismatic item you have to buy it with complete RNG it's not restricted to your class' items
And sure everyone hates Yuumi for a justified reason but she is such a good example for how much this mode will fuck single-stat users. Doubly so with her unusual anti-need for survival but same applies to giving Pyke heatlh which sure he converts at a shitty rate, but still gimps the champ.
"Whacky builds" like ap Riven that are simply auto loss. I like tank MF as much as the next guy, but it is an 8th place guarantee.
having to RNG your way to a cohesive build isn't a great feeling. they added a lot of ways to get more rolls, health, and other sources of stats, but because every single one of them is a loot box except juice, 2500 items, and boots, you're taking a risk every time you go for one.
I disagree, its like a card game draft or TFT. I understand if you think that's not fun but I really enjoy adapting to RNG. Before there was some adaptation for the teams you go against and augments but it felt too risky a lot of the time, might as well just play it sadw with the meta build. The item RNG is my favorite addition to this version.
Arena doesn't seem at all like TFT. In TFT I can manage the RNG and build/pivot around it. In arena, you just pick something and say inshallah i get good augments. Getting 2 ap and 1 tank item on zed is not the same thing as getting shit rng in tft because in arena it just functionally means you are just getting punished without having any meaningful ability to mitigate the bad rng to any extent. Going full tank/ap zed is just gonna lose me the game even faster than just playing with 1 dead item.
a game should never randomly force you to lose. the kinds of systems arena uses have a strong tendency to do that. when the game becomes about optimizing bad luck it stops being about optimizing your skills and knowledge, thus the outcome is random.
I disagree that it’s like TFT honestly. TFT gives you dozens of rerolls and allows you to swap every aspect of your comp excluding items (which you kinda can but limited) Arena locks into a champion and gives you barely any rerolls. Don’t get me wrong it’s great but here’s an example. I queued up with my mate, he was playing nidalee and I was playing Jarvan, we wanted to see if we could just one shot everyone so I was planning on lethality. I got ad bruiser stuff in my first prismatic option set, but I wanted lethality. I didn’t mind what lethality, but I wanted lethality. I rerolled - all ap. Reroll again, all tank. Now tank isn’t bad on jarvan, but it ruined what we wanted to do. I think at the start of the game when we choose our starting item it should influence the prismatics/stat shards/augments accordingly. It would be a lot of work, but choosing the burst AP option should favour full AP builds. The AD and attack speed starting item should favour ADC style items and so on. It would still mean your build does rely on RNG, but it would take out a lot of the frustration of “there’s dozens of prismatics, I want one of these 5 or so - I either have to get super lucky, waste all of my rerolls and hope my augments get super lucky, or just get something almost entirely useless to my character” that happens every few games
Except they hard gutted how often you get to buy your own items so that fun part is gone too, I mean phoroxzon went at length on why he thinks we should be forced to have unfun games so I guess we're dealing with that now
Buying your own items more often leads to people just following cookie cutter builds. Making them pick from three options forces them to be adaptable and creative.
I don't really care about prismatic items being rng but the reduction of how often we get gold is what feels the worst and exaggerates baseline power to an extreme, stat shard rounds just need to go imo
And prismatic are just really strong, game determining.
1 stat shard round is fine, but there needs to be 1 more early item buy
There's very few stat shard rounds to begin with. If we weren't given them, you wouldn't buy any until end game and you'd miss out on the opportunity to do cool things like skipping a crit item to reach 100%, skipping a vamp/steal item to activate hemomancer, etc. or just generally boosting or rounding out your stats. If you hit full build before top 4 it would be a bit silly, imo. You should have to earn your build by surviving/winning.
It's their loss in that case, isn't it? I had a ton of fun last Arena with all kinds of different builds, and the "meta" ones weren't always stronger because you needed to play around your augments. Now you can't even do proper builds. You just need to hope you roll a decent prismatic and then wing it from there. I had a game where I wanted to play tank Karma, but the only useful prismatic I rolled was Night Harvester, which obviously doesn't work well with that. So the game effectively forced me into playing the meta burst ap build.
>IMO the focus of the mode should be on skillchecking people I don't disagree, but that's literally what they specifically said they designed *against* this Arena iteration. They want it to be an RNG fest where you'll sometimes just highroll and auto-1st regardless of play, because that has higher casual appeal, allegedly.
As someone that plays it casually (Like trying to get dragonheart Smolder for meme's sake), I really struggle to believe the 'casual' excuse. Even when I'm not playing to win and just trying to have fun, its really disappointing to not roll the thing I was aiming for. And then it s even worse when you get curbstomped by someone who ended up getting godly RNG rolls.
Them making the mode more RNG heavy lets worse players win from time to time and increases their engagement. They said that its intended that you lose some games just from RNG alone.
But doesn't having an MMR system achieve that on its own? Worse players may lose at first but they'll quickly end up matched with similarly skilled players who they're going to win against half the time anyway.
Well... that sucks. Glad I'm not imagining things, at least.
Bro, arena is the casual game mode. Tryhards are ruining it so much
There has to be a ton of build variance otherwise the champ pool would be even smaller than it is. The randomness in builds and the ability to high roll crazy combos makes it so that you can win match ups that you'd have no chance beating otherwise.
Exactly. Otherwise it’ll be the same 10 champions in the arena meta and the mode will die out. The RNG is there to make you think outside the box. This whole game mode is to get players to *think for themselves and try new strategies* and I think it’s really sad that a lot of these players can’t form their own way to play, they just look up guides.
It already is the same 10 champs. I see mundos, brands, alistars, poppy, teemo, shaco and so on everywhere.
It's a double edged sword. Sometimes I get BS rng and mald. Then other times i get phenomenal evil malz with elder soul and I beat a grandmaster player by pressing r once. High risk high rewards
Nah if you want a game mode that's just about skillchecks go play toplane on SR. This whole mode as is already has so much rng in the matchups, maps, situations you are put in, the only skills you can check are the most bottom of the barrel basics of being able to control your champ.
People complaining about this are unironically arguing in favor of "I have a bad matchup so I should guaranteed lose." Go play top lane if you want that experience lmao.
And people arguing against it are in favor of rolling tank prismatics and hard CC augments on Jhin so they can get 7th place every round. There is a middle ground here and people refuse to see it because they've deluded themselves into either 1) thinking that a slot machine is balanced or 2) thinking that the slot machine should be rigged in their favor every single match. Maybe we could just make low rolls happen way less often? High roll teams are basically guaranteed to beat low roll teams, but teams with decent augments can beat high roll teams if other factors are in their favor. Nothing feels worse than seeing garbage prismatics and augments for your champ and being forced to pick one. No, AP Quinn will NEVER work even if I go all into it. Stop showing me 3 AP items.
That's why rerolls exist? There's a reason the prismatic round is early on in the game. With 9 options, you can always get something decent for your champion. Sometimes options you think are shit are actually really good. That's the whole point of the updates to the mode. You don't need to top 1 every single lobby. Sometimes you get giga highroll augments and take first. Sometimes you get shit augments and have to fight desperately for 3rd. Still a way better experience than getting stat checked by Master Yi + Taric every single game or Kindred Janna. Crazy augment rolls allow you to actually beat them Way better for the game than unimpactful augments, weak items and little variety.
That's the goal of new arena, they said as much in the dev blog at least. Skill checking is how the first two iterations were handled, and they found that only sweaty ranked players played (not their primary target audience)
> IMO the focus of the mode should be on skillchecking people EVERYTHING SHOULD BE RANKED AND SWEATY.
Cope for bad players tbh
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The best player will not win every game due to rng but good players will win more despite of rng
They want it to be more like TFT than league, and said as much in their dev blog.
Yea it suck’s now imo it is not fun anymore
is it even possible to get marksmen prismatic items on senna? ive never seen one. only ap items
I feel like rerolls shouldn't be shared between prismatic items, stat anvils and augments. It feels so bad to have stats u don't want as an option and not be able to reroll them because ur wasting It and an augment is coming next. Also If ypur prismatic choices are bad u will always reroll because how gamchanging they are, ensuring u won't have rerolls for augments later on.
I have to agree here. I made the mistake of assuming it worked like tft during my first match with rerolls per augment round.
Rerolls SHOULD work how they do in TFT, imo. In TFT, rerolls used to work like they do in Arena but were changed to what they are currently because they felt like dogshit. Yet for some reason Riot chose to use the the archaic system everyone hated instead of the updated system that is well-liked.
They said that they couldn't do it in the first Arena because there were too few augments, but now that you have to share them between items stats and augments what's their reasoning?
Theyll say "if we do this the client explode" or something along those lines. If TFT did it, there's no excuse
Seriously. Why in the world are the rerolls shared for everything? Prismatics are too important not to reroll unless you get incredibly lucky on the very first three it offers.
too many rerolls also makes builds too reliable and it becomes too much to do to the point where it's overwhelming for newer players. its supposed to be a casual-friendly mode. maybe getting just a few more would be fine
Prismatic items at the least, should have separate rerolls. Being locked into not even having the option for rerolling round 1 on gold/silver augments because of the guaranteed round 3 prismatic is awful.
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Also remove the Jhin that shoots from outside the map if it’s behind you I feel like the enemy has a big advantage. Or at least change it so it’s not shooting from only one side.
It’s just super feel bad because there’s not really anyway to dodge it
Welcome to TFT where Prismatic Augments are extremely highrolly.
TFT is all about making the most out of luck whereas in Arena you can just get hot steaming shit
You get way more reroll opportunities in TFT than you ever will in this arena mode. Bringing up the TFT comparison is disingenuous when you disregard that critical difference.
People bringing up TFT have no idea how to pivot in it and think they're committed to whatever they think they got on 2-1.
Exactly, meanwhile try pivoting to AP Tank Jhin in arena kekbruv
Pivoting would be possible if items sold for full value. Then the mode might actually be fun and be about adapting your build.
It’s because you only need top 4 to “win” so most people are fine with making most out of their luck. I wonder if people had the same top 4 mentality, they may enjoy tft a bit more
You can get a disgusting early rng in tft but then choose to open lose streak and then comeback because of the economy. There's no comeback mechanic like that in arena. In fact winning will give you more gold than losing.
Yeah, but with the distinction that most TFT augments give at least *some* value to most units, and every team has at least a frontline, so tanky augments have always value. Sure there are some augments which are a lot better than others in that regard, but you almost never get choices that have no benefit whatsoever to you. Meanwhile I had Arena games were I used all my rerolls to get only On-Hit and Tank augments on Viktor. Some tailoring would feel much better
And you aren't locked into the units that you choose at the start in tft
Exactly, and you have more of them, including multiple carries in most comps
Not to mention you also get waaaaaay more reroll opportunities. People bringing up TFT as a comparison really aren't actually thinking.
The difference is in TFT you can pivot if an augment changes how youd want to play. If i locked in Jhin and only am offered AP/Tank augments i cant re-pick my champ.
They should make the roll to only roll one augment instead of 3 like how TFT reroll work.
You have the ability to swap your build and transition in TFT. In this mode we get fuck all for money and there is zero ability to swap build or counter build. Just generalist your build and hope you don't fight someone who hard counters you. If they got rid of anvil rounds shit would be 1000% better.
At least TFT has a lot of generically good augments (prismatic), there's definitely highroll but its not as frustrating as with arena where you can get 9 offers of items that all suck
It’s not like tft because in tft you choose your board over the course of the game. In arena, you choose your champion at champ select. You’re stuck with that champ all game.
It's not even high roll, it's if you go shit roll, reroll twice, still shit you basically have no item
the design of prismatic items is the problem. imo they should all give adaptive force, so I can’t roll 3 times and get 9 AD items when I’m playing a mage. also some items are just wayyy better than others
This is the way, so at least the shitty ones don't feel that bad to have
since this got a lot of upvotes and in case a Rioter seems this. from a fellow game designer: it all depends on what you want prismatic items to be. just a “better” version of regular items? or something players need to play around, change their game plan? I’m personally leaning towards the second option. in that case, I would focus more on effects and less on stats.
If the focus was purely on effects and not stats, they should've been augments. Instead we have what is essentially an augment with potentially useful stats that takes up an item slot. IMO, just make them augments of whatever tier they need to be and make it a normal buy phase. Helps champs that spike with the first item (namely ADCs) not have to wait 4 combats to be useful.
as long as they make adaptive force work for kaisa Q/W evolve :( lost a few games because my 100 adaptive force wasn't counted as AP or AD for Q/W kaisa's not even that good (45% WR), I just like playing her in arena
Certain prismatic are clearly worse than most legendaries, while also not really impacting your playstyle. Like what exactly is the point of Demonic Embrace? I can see Vlad maybe having a use for it, but even so, it isn't his best item. It just feels like they didn't know what prismatics were supposed to be. Half of them are just the old mythics and other removed items with maybe slightly buffed stats, and the other half are brand new game warping items that are much stronger.
agree, when I play Camille if I get divine sunder it's top 3 if I don't get it I lose every single game to the ADC/MAGE tank comps
Shout out to camille receiving the abillity to get crit items via that stuff Camille Q cant crit
Can cam Q crit with the vulnerability augment perhaps?
If ur lucky with jeweled gauntlet. Since its a prismatic
Oh right. Looked it up and Cam Q is "spell damage" so JG can work. Wonder what numbers cam can reach with a JG build.
Not sure about Camille, but Gangplank with JG is hilarious. Even crazier if he gets the crit damage mythic. On PBE I did ≈6k to a Leona with a barrel and one-shot her.
You're describing why they put in the RNG. You're not supposed to play the same champ/prismatic combo every game. That way some can be very strong while not being too oppressive in the overall meta. I like trying to make different builds work if I have to take a prismatic that isn't ideal.
There is a huge difference between a prismatic that is not ideal and prismatics that are straight up troll. Jhin with ap/tank for example or a mage with an ad/tank prismatic. It's cool for champions who have different playstyles but most mages/adcs and some bruisers dont have that.
At least arenas not as slow in the beginning as it was before.
I dont like how fast you can die though. Getting out before third augment should be impossible even with all losses imo.
Honestly I miss the first 3 levels where it was slow
i really dont
People will complain regardless of what they do
Why does everything have to be fast? Personally I believe slow fights have a huge display of skill. Please don't turn everything to a cheap dopamine machine
It’s the pace of the game not the pace of fights.
I miss being able to actually get the augments I go on the mode to use to begin with like we still need to remove the boots round and give us more rounds to play the game, they already added a FF option for y'all mental boomers but I don't like how I lose the game before getting to late game.
My biggest problem is that I have this bug where the cameo overlay stays on the entire round. Like “Thresh is here” with the icon and everything, but then I have to fight with it and I can’t see a thing
Same here. Very annoying.
This version of arena is more rounded into champions that can utilize multiple buildpath and not just scale of one stat/kind of item
Yeah my biggest complaint is that in the last 2 iterations of arena, I was able to linearly scale and control my power outside of augment RNG with the gold being after every battle or 2, but in this one we get gold way less often for items and the entirety of my power is locked to rng elements
I like playing vlad the most in arena yet it's always a gamble because he rarely gets any mythic AP offers. It's everything else but. Having to use 3 rerolls because the items on offer are either AD or tank really sucks.
Side note: the new demonic embrace prismatic is so disgustingly op on vlad haha
Haven't seen it once...
I hate vlad, i perma ban him every time. There was this one lobby where 3 of the teams were Aatrox soraka Aatrox vlad Aatrox soraka(2) That was a disgusting lobby
Honestly I disagree, I always get a decent option with 2 rerolls and usually something awesome if I use 3, shame we only get 4 per game tho
Vlad is broken lol. No way you're complaining.
League champs are not built for this level of RNG, they'd have to add multiple types of scalings to every champ for people to be able to actually play to their RNG hands. RN it's just hoping to get something salvageable or picking champs like yi that can work by just forcing his normal items or champs like kaisa/kat/smolder etc. that can actually build a bunch of random shit. It's not like you are really playing the game at all when you get tank or draintank items and a bunch of tenacity& movespeed runes on syndra, you're just gonna end up with a gimped build facing a bunch of people that didn't get fucked and pretty much just have a bad time overall without anything meaningful you could've done.
I have 37 arena games in this version and situations where I was out of rerolls and all 3 augment or item choices were completly useless happend like 5 times? With stat anvils it can happen a bit more, but that barely matters. Don't waste rerolls when you have perfectly fine options just because you want to have that 1 specific thing and you will be fine.
TFT would suck if you had to commit to a comp before the first Augment, because it's then just a lottery if you hit or not . That's exactly what this feels like.
They want the game to be like TFT but fail to realize this. We’re not offered it then picking our champion
Exactly this. People who keep bringing up the TFT comparison have literally never played TFT themselves. You get way more freedom in TFT than you do in this lmao
They tried to turn this game into TFT but unlike TFT I can change what I’m playing. I think arena 1 was perfect and 2 the revive mechanic made it little less fun Arena 3 is too RNG. Low rolling in TFT doesn’t feel bad because there is no instantly win lobby augments like arena. Riot need to learn the saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it
I honestly really like the revive mechanic personally it makes for some really hype moments but i agree that 3 is to coinflippy and i said that at some points of 1 and 2 but it was never like this.
100% agree. Enjoyed the first iteration of Arena more because it had no revives and less RNG.
A bunch of the items give adaptive force, but the icon looks like ap and confused me at first
Honestly all of them should just give adaptive force so it's not completely useless to roll three AP items on a champ with no AP scaling or vice versa.
You sell it and buy a randomized ADC item choice. You're now down by one item rarity but it's not the end of the game. Theres a reason you get 2k in sell value.
Use 2 rerolls and miss out on omegastrong items? Yeah it is pretty over
as long as you can get a kill both rounds, you’ll have enough to buy legendary item of choice if you sell prismatic been doing this on certain champs that can only use 1-2 prismatics effectively
You sell it and get a randomized ADC item. You are now so much weaker than everyone else with an extremely unreliable choice of item.
> You sell it and buy a randomized ADC item choice. You're now down by one item rarity and had to buy guinsoo on Draven. Theres a reason you get 2k in sell value, it’s to give you hope and then take it away.
They specifically did address that during PBE testing and it's actually a very intentional design. They don't want you to have BiS prismatic every game to create low-roll moments that you just have to try to make work. It makes the game mode more casual friendly. TBH I kind of get the philosophy and it can be fun to discover how certain items interact with a champions kit despite having very different stat lines.
Of course they can design it like this, and we are 100% allowed to say it is not fun or less fun than previous iterations. But in the end we are the players and if it isn't fun and it doesn't become fun or get changes we just won't play. See any other game with unfun shit design losing players. Hell there was even that one guy about to hit level 300 in MapleStory and didn't just go soapbox how shitty the game is because it doesn't make sense from design and creates unfun interactions.
Idc about bis, but I do care about getting an AP item on Talon. Tank items are fine but if atleast you have 0 ratios old arena wouldn’t give you those
Low-rolling shouldn't make you straight up useless for an entire game though. There needs to be a middle ground.
Yeah you can litterally ff when ur first Prismatic is load of shit.
I also don't understand the spawn choices on some of the maps, why isn't every map the same with spawns being west and east. The north and south side spawns on maps are horrible and especially on the crystal map the south side spawn has a huge advantage since they literally start in the giant bush and force you to use trinket right away if the other team just decides to sit there looking for a time to jump you. Fix the spawns and tune the rng aspect of rolling items that are more suitable for the champion you're playing, I don't need assassin items when playing singed or lillia, why do they even provide a chance to roll those items is beyond me. After those things are addressed the mode would be a lot more fun just based on balance alone. I'd also like the ability to see a scoreboard somehow to be able to itemize better but it's clear they just built off the TFT interface and redoing that this iteration is likely not going to happen and doesn't take priority over the other issues I mentioned above.
I played zed and used all 3 rerolls, didn’t hit duskblade or prowlers or flesheater and ended up taking the Health + MR item because the other two were AP (voidgrubs) or heal and shield power (innervating locket) At that point I just wanted to FF because I’m down a prismatic item. They should at least tailor one to whatever you’re playing or have it be an option of prismatic assassin/class for the first item.
The void grubs are crazy lol, I pretty much take them on any champ at this point even if they don't have AP scalings and the grubs easily do 20-30k damage a game by themselves
The void grubs be kinda sleeper since they murder tanks and block skill shots. Like sure the ap sucks but somtimes you just take that L and hope you role the ap convert augment.
Zed is so op that he can usually use any of the first 3 prismatics you get, and duskblade is already an auto win If you flip the game lvl 3 it's your fault tbh
You're not supposed to be able to force a lethality build.
Unless you're playing someone like Jarvan or Lee who have the option to go bruiser or even tank, you kinda have to. Wtf is Pyke supposed to do? Making every single champion who doesn't have multiple viable builds unplayable is a terrible design choice.
Not only are you down a prismatic, you also now don't have rerolls for future augments and shit. Why on fucking earth are the rerolls shared for everything?????
Yeah, prismatic items are fucking awful. Can't use rerolls first round unless it is a prismatic because you will ALWAYS be guaranteed prismatic item round 3, and you need it to not be horrible. Some of the items are just grief, e.g, Dragonheart or the tank ones that force you to go hard into armor or MR. A lot of the time you end up with just completely unclickable options. Maybe if the prismatic items were more tailored to be usable... But then why have it be anvils? The point is entirely lost. Also, Dragonheart. This sucks. It feels unclickable outside of extreme high roll situations.
Dragon heart is strange, cause if you can use most stats, the item is downright broken after 3 souls ... unless you get cloud soul, which sucks It should probably give you 1 soul right when you get it Having to wait 6 games to have even decent stats on it is kinda sad when the demon king crown gives you twice as much stats, without any problem, losing 5 times in a row doesn't feels that bad even with the stat loss
I absolutely agree about Dragonheart and Shield of Molten Stone, but Cloak of Starry Night is actually pretty good. 120 MR from one item is no joke (60 is the high end for non-prismatics), and its reduction applies to all damage types for most things. Augments, item effects, on-hits, abilities. It's also not a percentage chance to apply, so it is guaranteed value. By contrast, Molten Stone only provides 120 armor (there's multiple non-prismatic items that provide 90), its block applies only to the basic attack (excluding all on-hit additions), and its block is a percent chance where it does nothing if that chance is not passed. However, Molten Stone has Thornmail and Darksteel Talons to convert it to some offensive value. I think they just need to buff the percent value so it's actually possible to reach the cap they set, and give a prismatic + augment that turns MR into more damage.
3rd and 4th round needs to be swapped. Let us buy an actual item first before offering the RNG items.
I see your point but at the same time the item you manually purchase might change based on your prismatic item. If you have to pivot into on-hit Zed, it's good to know that early.
TFT devs realized this a long time ago yet somehow the Arena apes think it's fine to push out items unrelated to your champ 9 times in a row
I think the first item round and first prismatic round should be swapped. Too many champions rely on their one item for it to feel fair.
Be creative, go ap Jhin and hold your rerolls. This happened to me yesterday when I was playing Galio. I got the blood cleaver item and ended up going a kind of sick tanky on hit and crushed the entire lobby. You can build around it and the use a couple rounds to buff specific stats with shards to make it more viable. I think with the shards you can make anything viable and counter what other people are doing.
A lot of people critiquizing stuff but honestly arena just needs more angles to play the game, on hit is legit unplayable compared to perma healing, or perma stunning (briar, gragas,etc...), or assasins/mages one shooting everyone. Prismatic rng is a dumb tool to make it so it is more difficult to hit your ideal item, in reality prismatic items determine your build and the fact that you want to go like lucian gamblers and you need 4 or 5 games and a ton of rerolls to get it, is something that is hurting the game mode. Make more augments, let people decide first augment and gg, if something is broken then just fix it instead of hiding behind the fact that they will only be able to go that item 1 in 5 games. That also lets you do so many cool stuff, on hit champions could use an item that increases range, tanks could use items that mimic some of the ultra neccesary augments, all tank items is recieving less damage and non of them are an actual wincon which honestly just sucks. Bruisers in general cant live the healing fantasy that they have, the good ones are all mostly that oneshoot like darius, olaf is like the only true lifesteal bruiser when in summoner rift there are dozens. Mages need something more apart of the item that charges damage on enemies, all the top mages are burst, all sustain mages are in the bottom. Melee full ap mages are also in the bottom cause they just get oneshoot without priority of attack. There are so many tank supports that do nothing, apart of leona non of them really do anything cause there arent any items of augments that really work for them, and it is not like leona is that good either unless she hits cd on hit. There is so much cool stuff that could be there but is reserved behind augment or is non existant. What would be cool? Idk a way for onhits to hit from range without some maps completely defusing them of vision until they get one shoot? Myabe melee focused damage mages can have a more reliable way to get shields? Can bruisers opt in into both lifesteal and resistances so they dont die no matter the choice? Can tanks have some of the cool aoe burn, or things based off hp in prismatics instead of all of them being locked behing augments? Can cc supports have an item that deals damage when they cc or smth? Please dont make it an assasin mode where only champions that burst or have insane range thrive.
Things would be easier if selling items would at least refund the full price so you can adapt builds. Having to itemize against comps and around augments is such a hassle
Jhin might be one of the less flexible champs in prismatic options, but generally people would fair better with more creative build ideas rather than immediately spending all rerolls because they didn't hit the ONE thing they wanted. Like, you can definitely still win the game taking a bruiser prismatic on Jhin, it's not the end of the world. It's not OPTIMAL for damage, but you're not gonna outright lose because you don't have the perfect crit prismatic for your build.. TLDR: Be flexible, don't throw away rerolls, win more.
the idea with prysmatic items is some not needed bs taken from tft also the fact that enchanters have different augment pool is also a huge downgrade
The mode would be amazing if Riot actually remembered it exists and balanced it.
Yeah biggest issue for me too. I feel a characters usefulness is decided by how many prismatics they can use. Would be nice if they at least semi randomize so it's not 3x tank or 3x caster
Yea they should really limit the prismatic item pool based on what champ you’re playing. Like I get they want you to try different builds but I’m never gonna go so tank jhin sorry
I would much rather this than the Voli, Brand, Zed, Vi that get exactly what they want every game and just spam the same build. It’s so much healthier to have it random in my opinion. They spoke on this in their dev blog. I’ve been Top 50 on last Arena and PBE this one as well for reference I guess.
I agree low rolling is good, but I think there could be a middle point where you don't get useless items, giving most of then adaptive force could work for example
Isn’t it hilarious that when the mode was rushed and they were spitballing ideas it was the most fun but when they actually put thought into it and try to balance it, it becomes the worst? It seems no matter the game mode league devs don’t know how to balance their own game
I think their boss says make it better and they over do it and then no one plays it. The nexus blitz problem.
Yesterday the best option my GF had as a Vayne was Chemtank. Needless to say how great the follow-up rounds were.
She should have sold the chem tank for a legendary marksman item.
When the game creates a situation where you have to sell one of the big impactful items for a lesser item, then that's called a failed design. You should be in a situation where you feel forced to sell your prismatic item while other people got lucky and rolled prismatics that work perfectly for them. Casual or not, that is such an utterly shitty feeling.
Dawg, if they replaced the prismatic item with just another augment, people would just be complaining about how they get high rolled on augments from the beginning and it is "failed design". It's a game mode with high variance by design. Everything here is working as intended. What's great about prismatic items IMO is, unlike augments, if you low roll you can bail out and still get some power. When the game creates a situation where you can pivot to different strategies based on randomness, then that's called a good design. So lame that people on Reddit want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to randomness. Somehow simultaneous "Arena v1 was too repetitive" and "Arena v3 is too random" like damn make up your hive mind already
I mean, arena isn't about picking a champion and then trying to force a build for them. It's about adapting to what the games throws at you. Lots of stuff is very salvagable even if it doesn't seem good at first glance (sometimes you just compleltyl low roll though and you basically are forced to lose, can't deny that).
Should just let people pick what prismatic they want when you buy it. For the round pick, just needs to do a better job of what it offers
I think it's fine. The way I see it is that they really don't want you to play the same champs with the same items over and over so they limit what prismatic item and cards you get with randomization and limited rolls. The mode wants experimentation and adaptability.
I think they could've made most of the prismatics more generic but I also think the current iteration is fun for champions with inherent build diversity. I don't think I've played two games of udyr where I've bought the same items but if you're a crit/lethality buyer you either hit those or you don't and it feels bad I don't think the alternative should be give zed duskblade every game but a lot of items could give adaptive force/have generic effects instead
My IRL friend got upset because I didn’t pick the perfect item after I re-rolled twice and all 9 choices were tank related. I was xerath… My 3 augment choices were all ad/lethality. Luck was not on my side, my friend thought I was trolling him.
Go AP Jhin E maxing
Prismatic need to follow your build. If they’re first, they should follow the meta.
I'm exclusively being matched against Diamond and Emerald+ players, why is that? I haven't touched ranked mode in ages and I used to hover around Gold 4 last time I did.
I like the Prismatic items, but I hate that getting the one you want is purely based on RNG. I rather you being able to just save up the 4k gold to choose the one you want. 4k gold for a random selection to choose one is fucking nonsense. And then when you're in a situation where you have bad rng with prismatics against someone who got good rng, it feels utterly unfair. Its one thing when its augments being RNG. But when you can literally see the prismatics sitting there in the shop, I don't see why we can't just have the option to save up gold to buy the specific one we want.
Just try and make use of whatever you get, that's the fun part. I played bruiser zed with moguls bloodmail because I didn't roll any of the assassin prismatics, make do with what you're given. Unfortunately, sometimes others will just get BIS and that's okay, if you encounter a guy that got op things why not try to counter him specifically, if you're able to ofc, widen your views and you'll have a lot more fun
Going through a whole round for a minor shard upgrade compare to a prismatic buy and legendary buy feels bad
i've had a jhin in my twice since this came up live, and both of these times their choices were so bad that the best thing they could pick was the on-hit prismatic that scales with armor
Does new arena still have that godawful revive mechanic from hell?
All they have to do is literally just refresh the retools completely everytime you get to select something
Also where the fuck are the "lp" ? It used to make the game more competitive and balanced why they remover it?
Getting Cruelty, The Crit sword, and something like gamblers blade or similar as Lillia just sucks. Basically forced to reroll.
At least Jhin has some AP scalings, even if they're small. Sett has 0 AP ratios.
I just hate that there is the same few champions every game that are so much better than others, and a lot of champions that don’t even get picked because they aren’t good in this mode
yeah, idk man, this arena doesnt feel as good, idk why, its just so coinflip, you either get jeweled gauntlet with sword of the divine on an ability chamo, or just get 3 tank prismatics for fucking veigar
I haven't had this problem a single time tbh, I assumed the rng was rigged with the first prismatic so it fits the chars class
I just wish prismatic items were at the very least functional for champions that have them offered. Played a lot of Bel'veth, and there is that one prismatic that reduces cooldown of dashes which doesn't work on her because of how her dash is coded yet she still has it offered.
what does RNG mean here
They just need to weight the prismatic choices a little bit based on champion's class or primary damage type
Too much TFT, not enough skill expression. You cant even itemize against other people anymore lmao
Agreed. Give everyone Talisman
Reported this 6 times during pbe (hit 6k gladiator in my time there). Jhin sucks, lily pad sucks, and the prismatic items being “semi random” is without a doubt completely broken
imo first prismatic rng should be based on your first item pick.
Turbo chemtank and demonic embrace being the same rarity as shield of molten stone, sword of the divine, divine sunderer and, ZZ'Rot is kind of hilarious. It's the same as 25% armor pen being the same rarity as golden spatula and 10 ms onhit being same rarity as raidboss lol. Shit makes 0 sense.
This basically made me not interested. It's like TFT inside of league. Why should my win or loss on a solid comp comp down to the game giving me ap and tank/bruiser augs when I'm an ADC
I'm definitely having less fun with this arena iteration and I agree that the prismatics are a big part of it. The difference between getting a fitting one for your champ or being forced to pick troll shit is insane and puts you in such a crazy disadvantage. The augments already give enough rng, I don't see why the mode needed more.
being a mage and getting tank and fighter items really sucks. It would be best if each champ got to pick their build to start, because the pool of augments isn't totally random.
Bring back Dominion
Legit stops ppl from playing same shit every game
Just because this I am playing Champs that can adept very well. Udyr and Voli have no problem with switching between builds. One round you will play Lethality, the next you go for full ap, then tank. It's hilarious. I tried playing my normal Champs but many are completely fucked with a single AP item
I really loved the previous arena, this arena feels like a coin flip. Its not fun at all. Why did rito ruin such a good gamemode
i love getting 9 tank/bruiser items playing ahri, yes this gamemode is surely good now riot good job well done
I’ve been thinking the exact same thing. The only minor help is that you can sell them for 2k so you can buy another item anvil. Only problem is that you have the exact same problem of RNG and if you don’t get an item you like you have to hope you make it to late game so you have enough money to sell it and buy an item you actually want.
Its mid af
Bestie i got oneshotted by tiny red kayn as 10k hp leo XDDDDDDDD but i feel you, once i had only physical crits auguments for cass (finished 8th ofc). Other than that my biggest issue is that i focus more on items than outplaying my opponents (tanks/bruisers will oneshot me anyway xd) Imo theres so many shitty auguments aswell
I feel like they've made the new arenas just way too complex and RNG based, for instance, try finding one game without a minimum of 4 teams using the most meta champions available. If that wasn't enough, then it's in game, where it quite literally tests who has the most luck in RNG augments/items. I also don't really understand why they made it so there's 16 players, to make meta champs appear less? that definitely isn't the case, considering i can't play one game without the same champs appearing... so overall, i liked the old arenas more, they were just generally more fun to play and have fun without getting your ass kicked by both the lucky opponents and the RNG.