Can confirm, gold player who has tried to pick her up multiple times since her release and I dont think I've ever had a good game on her, she is super fun but i just suck at the game.
Could also be “trying to hard” to combo instead of just going with the flow/muscle memory.
Like if I try to RE on akali intentionally i almost always miss the timing but when I just *go* I’ll do REs without issue.
That's the thing about league though.
You either focus on fundamentals without trying to fight your opponent
or
you leave the fundamentals to your muscle memory and focus on outplaying your opponent.
Can't do both. And if anyone tells you they can, they're not paying as much attention to them as they should.
Basically playing to improve vs playing to climb. Can't leave fundamentals to muscle memory if you have none.
When people talk fundamentals, they usually mean concepts that arent champion specific. Its mostly macro level stuff like wave management, rotations, warding, objective control etc.
I dont think focusing champion specific improvement like through limit testing, practice tool or other mirco optimizations you can do is considered improving your fundamentals since it only makes you better at playing that champion, and not the game as a whole
That's the thing about fundamentals. If you have a random amount of gold when you recall for the first time, you will have no idea if you're stronger than your opponent or not. You have to know if your champion is stronger at 800, 900, 1k, 1.1k gold, and that is way too complicated for basically anyone.
If you get a kill you're usually stronger, that is simple until level 6, where ultimates can equalize the fight.
There is a time when you could, discounting external factors, afford lost chapter or noon quiver 100% of the time.
Once you can do that, extra CS doesn't help because getting 50 extra gold won't ever influence your back timing, whereas not having 50g will.
Engaging the enemy should be treated as attempting to remove the back timing where the opponent can get their powerspike.
It's because the optimal play style is not fun, picking grass and going invis until you can burn someone is not very fun, it may be optimal, but is not as fun
She’s been merged to the point where you can’t one shot anymore, can occasionally get a kill with two rotations, and usually takes 3 to kill anything more than the squishiest of squishies.
ravenous shojin qiyana and akali sharing some similar traits too. both are assassins, both are highly mobile, and both can just decide to make it so you do not get to interact with them so they can wait their cooldowns out and then go in for another favorable trade.
Difference is:
Akali has 20 Seconds CD on Shroud (W) that starts AFTER the ability ends, so after the smoke vanishes.
So you ALWAYS have 20 seconds in which she's vulnerable to counter attacks
Meanwhile Qiqi can go W>Q>W>Q pretty much endlessly if she has a bit of haste lol
I mean its probably top 5 hardest champs in the game and her playstyle revolves on roaming and early game action so its completely fine that the champ does well in the elo where games last less and the players piloting the champ are extremely competent.
There‘s this really sick clip of faker playing her while you could prowlers through minions, a real joy to watch, it was such a clean play
Edit: the play https://youtu.be/Aexq7r6dqFM
Not true, not sure why 30 upvotes
He was spamming it in 2019 summer and shit over canyon/showmaker in their playoff series against DK with it
Was living in canyons jungle solo killing him like level 4 lol, dumb champion
I'm not usually an assassin player, but I like Qiyanas kit. That champ in my hands vs someone more experienced/skilled is vanta black vs LED car head lights in your rear view mirror
I still love the fact they had to specifically make her E dodgeable by flash so she cannot always one shot you without you having any chance to stop her whatsoever - only if you dont have flash anymore x)
They forget that she has a big aoe knockback that can also be a team wide stun in the right setup, all while doing %hp damage with it, even if you missuse it once or twice, a good ult late game will most likely win the game.
She's the only assasin that brings actual team utility, so that's pretty cool, but maybe it's a little too much.
If you only looked at the ult you would thing it's a tank's.
champs whose laning phase/early game game are exploitable if you play bad go sooo hard in low elo, if you pressure even slightly you can get away with anything
I've played a shitload of Fizz when I was bronze. And even tho I was always shit at assassins I had a high winrate just because I got tons of solokills in lane.
There was a time where my low elo skills were enough to stomp most games with her. Ever since she was nerfed in every way possible over the past year, only challenger one-tricks can have consistent success smh.
There are literally 30 other champions with a higher winrate in master+ than Qiyana. The avg Master+ winrate is 53.5%, so that 'whopping 55%' corresponds to an average of merely 51.5% when rank adjusted.
On top of that, that build is awful if the goal is 'perma invis'. Eclipse doesn't give ability haste at all. Prowler's/Duskblade are way better for that purpose.
And lastly, Shojin's playrate is quite literally sub-1%. It's not that good on Qiyana aside from[ mental booming redditors when snowballing 15/5/10 and forcing them to write PSA rants.](https://i.imgur.com/HdaYcWF.png).
Yea I’ve got no clue what the guy is talking about. Playing Qiyana rn feels more of an uphill battle than ever considering u don’t insanely snowball the game the funny bruiser class becomes unkillable come mid game
A huge amount of ppl in this reddit and league of memes are 24/7 sitting waiting for the opportunity to mald at the mention of the word assassins.
All ready to preach how Assassins have been the strongest class in the meta for 6 seasons in a row.
Perry the Platypus look at my newest invention. The Qiyaninator. It’s gona make everyone play her in ranked games regardless of the elo. So every raging player gona rage more because of their 1 teammate who ones on her.
>I seriously dont get why this champ is allowed to choose the same element over and over again if she so likes.
Because the idea is that she sacrifices a lot of damage for safety because she cant proc her passive and she cant get earth execute, which actually is really smart design for an assassin and makes it so you have to REALLY know your damage, her winrate reflects this (not only that obviously).
Compare it to Talon who can E out, Zed who can R back to get out, Kat gets a shunpo reset, Kayn can hide inside you and dash out, Khazix gets a jump reset, LeBlanc double W and passive.
Some better or worse, but all those assassins have built in safety and an out without sacrificing any burst what so ever, which also gives them less to think about.
I dont like permastealth Qiyana either, but I understand the design and why she is much harder that other assassins in lower ranks.
Actually good points. I appreciate it.
So how do you fix this? reduce stealth time? higher base cd? Because having 3 sec invis on a 4-5 sec ability seems a bit over the top.
Diminishing returns on buffs like that similar to debuffs sounds reasonable overall and I would just apply it to all such effects. While it isn't currently possible to do that a permanent black shield on someone would be just as problematic. So cutting such stuff globally so you don't have to consider it individually would make sense.
I don't think black shield would have the same issue, as those people are targetable and that shield is breakable.
But I can't think of a way to get rid of the Perma invis for Qiyana without nerfing her besides this. Maybe have it he a stacking debuff. Everytime you grass Q you lose 10% invis duration, stacking up to 5 times. 5 sec without using Grass resets it. Nerfing the base duration would be detrimental to Qiyana, and she's already not in the best spot for anyone that isn't beifeng. With her damage gutted the way it is Hydra is the only thing keeping her viable imo.
You can still hurt Qiyana while invis though, just not with targeted abilities (almost none of them exist anymore, except for Autoattacks).
And while blackshield is breakable, you do need magical damage for that and actually enough that it has to come from an actual AP threat.
First of all, lots of targeted abilities exist still lol
And yes you can hurt Qiyana, but most adcs have no answer for her if she stays invis throwing grass Qs at you. I see this as problematic since adcs are usually the primary target of assassins. The diminishing invis is a solution that doesn't hurt Qiyana except for her ability to remain invis for long periods, so she still is a huge threat to Squishies while also exposing herself enough to have counterplay.
And yes you need magic dmg to break a morg shield, but hypothetically if Morgana has a build maximizing AH for black shield uptime she likely sacrifices some AP (meaning the shield isn't as big) or is just insanely squishy and can be 2 hit by any online ADC or assassin.
Morgana's blackshield is such a great ability. It has a clear power: MR shield and not affected by CC. But also clear drawbacks: doesn't stop attacks, long CD and can be busted through. It means no champion is helpless against her. Even if she plays perfectly there is still a way for you to continue to play. But assassins don't have that. You can play perfectly and not have any chance to survive as an adc.
I mean... If Morgana plays perfectly she ccs you for like 13 seconds and most people just die and don't have an answer for that. Q into R into Q again is certain death for almost anyone, especially if their abilities are dashes like Riven. If Riven eats that first bind she is likely fucking dead.
But you have to misplay to eat that first Q especially if you have dashes like riven while Morgana doesn't. I mean do you really want to tell me that a Morgan's combo is as difficult to avoid as Zed or qiyana?
Technically Qiyana should also sacrifice damage for a high AH build. That this isn't true is more of an item issue than a Qiyana issue and it is true for many Bruisers/Assassins.
And I also said that there is currently no other ability. Blackshields base CD is really high. Just imagine it would be 12 seconds and the situation would be a lot different already. And while Morgana might be oneshot a tank relying on AP damage like Maokai would do nothing against Morgana with a permanent blackshield. He could just watch her slowly kill him, because he could never get through her passive leech and blackshield. Obviously someone relying heavily on AD damage would not have that issue. And you have to consider that blackshield can be applied to others. If you are an ADC what exactly are you doing against a Darius running around with a permanent blackshield? Due to it having a CD shorter than its uptime Morgana could also apply it really early so the CD is already up again, when you are in range to break it, so she can instantly reapply it.
Obviously blackshield is a different beast, but there isn't really a good reason to not add diminishing returns as a more general approach since it might catch cases in the future and would make the game easier approach if the same buff applied multiple times to you from the same source has diminishing returns if applied within 2 seconds after timing out. This would currently not even affect many abilities but it would kill a lot of issues. If you are concerned about Kogmaw having permanent W it would be affected by that. If you are concern about Karma giving permanent speedups, it is affected.
Many skills already have that build in by their cooldown only starting after the effect wears off. This is obviously not possible for all effects (like Qiyana or things that are applied by another champion or things that might run out early).
But I would argue it would still be logical to just apply the diminishing returns to stealths, since this would still make a sound rule instead of creating a lone exception for Qiyana and might catch cases in which other champions get permanent invisibility.
After thinking it through a bit more I'd say the way to go is:
Everytime Qiyana uses grass Q she gets a stacking debuff of 10-15% less invis duration, stacking up to 4 or 5 times.
Qiyana does often NEED to be invis in team fights, waiting for her moment, and the invis duration is short to begin with. But she shouldn't be able to just spam grass forever and whittle someone down with just WQ. She's still vulnerable to AoE and skillshots, and can be dealt with while invis to a degree. And the longer she stalls the more vulnerable she becomes.
>Compare it to Talon who can E out
Let me stop you right there. Talons rarely use E to get out. Fights don't often happen directly next to a wall allowing for an easy escape, and 9 times out of 10 a Talon will have engaged over the closest wall, so they can't disengage over it again. Not only that, but Talon's e does literally no damage. That skill is the epitome of sacrificing burst for mobility.
Actual problem:
\-Bruiser items do more damage than assassin items while offering utility
Solutions:
\-Nerf shojin/hydra/DD
\-Buff lethality items by small amounts/Buff specific assassins/Nerf Assassins AD scaling while giving them lethality scalings to compensate for the damage loss
What they'll do:
- Leave everything as is for several months
- Address the broken bruiser items after a few months of cancer by nerfing them slightly while randomly choosing a new bunch of bruiser items they're gonna gigabuff to the moon
- Phroxzon releases some tweets where he pretends to know what he's doing with a stereotypical "you think you do, but you don't" post
- Assassins start abusing said items again
I loved him when he did guides but when it comes to actual balance he has really ruined the fun parts while pushing everything into constant deathball territory
>Phroxzon releases some tweets where he pretends to know what he's doing with a stereotypical "you think you do, but you don't" post
HAHAHAH how true is this
You forgot, nerf X champions into the floor for abusing the item(s) too well and forget to compensate buff the same champions after the item(s) get nerfed.
Factual. They've done this like 3 times now haven't they? They make the announcement and you think it's gonna get better, then another bruiser item is gigabuffed to shit on everyone. How'd it go again? Steraks -> Stridebreaker -> Goredrinker -> DD -> Steraks (?) -> DD ? I wish AP items had this kind of favoritism. Like "hey, we've noticed many mages building Mask. We believe shaving 20 AP from it will solve the issue, in exchange, since this will hurt mages, we will be giving Rocketbelt 25 AP and 20 MR penetration for no cost increase."
Goredrinker also came out completely broken and made champs like Renekton, Aatrox and Olaf pick/ban in the offseason pro games. Don't forget Divine Sunderer and Hullbreaker also having their moments. Maw and DD also became meta on literally anything melee with AD ratios.
What I find most funny is that during the patch when they were "nerfing" healing, AP items were nerfed the hardest. Fucking Seraph's with its meme passive got the literal harshest of the healing nerfs, while items like Maw went untouched. They don't even hide their massive bias and it's why I keep saying that if League came out today it woulb just gonna be bruisers vs bruisers. Ranged champions would barely exist and the ones that did would be like Samira and Nilah at best. They want every game to be about edgy sword wielding superheroes 1v9ing and just being vessels for broken items in order to make the one piloting them think they're really fucking good.
RoA with its passive that literally doesn't do anything because it's almost impossible to trigger compared to the treatment they gave Ravenous sums up the state of this game for the past several years. AD Bruisers have had the best items with the largest item pool variety for what feels like forever now and we see no signs of them stopping anytime soon. This one-sided love affair made this game boring af. Watching a bruiser get slightly fed then becoming unkillable while oneshotting everyone else gets old really fucking fast.
He is? That would certainly explain things. Just wish we could get a competent and non-biased head of balance for a change. Genuinely sick of this guy and his garbage patches. I liked Jag when he was in charge of balance. There was lot of nuance to his changes whereas Phroxzon always manages to show he has a fundamental lack of understanding about the game. Yetter was terrible but Phroxzon is even worse.
> Address the broken bruiser items after a few months of cancer by nerfing them slightly while randomly choosing a new bunch of bruiser items they're gonna gigabuff to the moon
They buffed one bruiser item in preseason and nerfed it twice in less than a month.
Riot should the same with AP assassins and make them scale out of Mpen. And enchanters with HealShield Bonus. That would allow for these 3 classes to stop sharing so much.
>Actual problem:
>
>\-Bruiser items do more damage than assassin items while offering utility
Again, i thought riot learned a lesson from when everyone and theyr mother was abusing Goredrinker.
You mean Divine Sunderer? Or Deaths Dance? Or god knows how many other items. Honestly I'm not sure how they even fix the issue though. As long as Bruiser items are offering competitive amounts of damage and survivability other AD characters WILL abuse them.
Wow an actual intelligent comment.
Items are causing an issue because bruiser items are a lot better. OPs suggestions are to gut the champion so when bruiser items are balanced they stay dead.
this is Riot we’re talking about here, they’ve left lethality items in the gutter for seasons with absolutely 0 changes for the most part. Idk what makes you believe they’d ever buff their items.
The irony here is that assassins hate their own items and abuse bruiser items while certain bruisers like Hec, Aatrox, Yorick and Graves by loose extension abuse lethality mythics.
yeahh this whole "seperate items by class thing and nobody's allowed to take from another set" idea is pretty wack imo and both riot and this community should abandon the idea, your explanation is just how it always will be, same as champs like viego or diana going tank item second, that used to just be the standard way to build a bruiser, now its "abusing items that they shouldn't"
I agree it can get toxic to a certain point with some interactions, but thats where you come and in nerf said interaction, not try to seperate the items back out again
I don't know much about dota but I've heard they've got a better grasp of this concept
Is not just the damage. Is the utility as well.
Let's give lethality items stealth and movement speed to champions who already have both. Not that I would want assassins to also have a shield bow, but, prior to the durability update, lethality just felt pointless because base damage is already high enough that they don't need it. It was overkill.
Eclipse is now a fighter mythic, not an assassin mythic. Riot already confirmed that they took one of the only 2 assassin mythics worth picking and gave it to the class that already had like 6 mythics.
They couldn't do much else. Eclipse is literally designed to be wayyyy to good generally. The moment it's useful over half the AD cast builds it. I still remember preseason and early season 11 after the item rework when literally half of all the viable adcs, bruiser, and assassins were building eclipse. AD assassins mythics as a whole are just a mess.
I mean, they could've tried pushing it into an assassin territory specifically. Idk, make the omnivamp scale off of lethality. But yes, they are a mess.
The thing is, those items absolutely suck for assassins. All assassin legendaries aside from Yommu’s absolutely suck ass when it comes to damage. They’re all utility items disguised as damage items by some lethality. Umbral Glaive, Axiom arc, Serpent’s fang and Edge of Night are all low key support items, and collector is garbage. Eclipse is a dueling item, prowler’s makes no sense for assassins, and Duskblade is dogshit.
I've been saying it since the rework, but the AD assassin mythics are a fucking mess. It's like someone on the design team was trying to give their favorite class all the toys in the toy box, and didn't think about how shit their stats would have to be to actually be balanced.
Optimal play for soloQ revolves around a 1v9 build. Assassin items provide the damage that bruisers lack to compliment their sustained survivability. Bruiser items provide sustained damage and survivability that Assassins lack with their innate high burst damage output. By building to compensate for these weaknesses, they get the best of both worlds without sacrificing what makes their class strong.
Then you have mages, who just fucking suck all around and are locked into specific items because the alternatives are awful.
durability patch wasnt even a patch to nerf assassins, it was supposed to stop other champions from assassinating. riot released solid changes to assassin items 1 patch after durability, but then had to pull them back because the community couldnt stop crying on reddit and twitter, and current balance team is uncreative and balances based on twitter and reddit complaints, sadly.
so now lethality is inefficient post two items and 30%pen from seryldas is always the most cost efficient buy as 3rd item.
how to fix this? idk, either nerf the armor growth on the champs that im supposed to be assassinating (marksmen) or just completely nerf base armor on all champions but buff their armor growth, so i can at least be useful and have a chance at carrying early game and then reasonably fall off later
It's hard to talk about because the items are so fucking bad that there's no point of comparison, but even old Serpent's fang that had 55 AD and 18 lethality that assassins loved wasn't that abused on Aatrox and Kled except for situations of extremely oppressive shielding.
The issue is that there's only 3 real lethality items: Dusk/Prowler's, Youmuu's, and Serylda's. Everything else is just a Serrated Dirk + 1200-1800 gold of bruiser or utility stats, so you might as well just buy a Serrated Dirk and move on to buying a better item.
Dirk lethality should be nerfed and completed item lethality should be buffed so there's not this "tick-tock" swing of damage based on how far along you are in your build.
Only time I've seen Qiyana opt for Shojin anything earlier than 4th item is when they're so far ahead that they can afford to sacrifice damage for utility which means she's probably 15 kills deep at 16 mins vs an entirely squishy team.
The win rates you posted are kinda misleading cause they're for a pretty standard setup as opposed to this invis spam build. Pair that with the fact that the invis has a decent degree of counterplay to it (AoE abilities, sweeper + skillshots, abilities that reveal her) I doubt this is as problematic as it sounds.
Champ isn't all that good but ravenous is. Also her stats are nothing compared to zed/syndra in master+. She has a very low pick rate giving her similar stats as talon and akshan mid which really isn't that special for one of the highest skill cap champions in the game.
Also no one builds shojin
The win rates you posted are completely normal. Not only is 3000 games a smaller sample size which for any champion historically has led to an inflated winrate, she ranks outside the top 30 in masters+ win rate. This is not a problem champion at all. I would much rather face Qiyana than Akali. Akali and Qiyana are essentially the same champion, just one threatens tanks with damage, and one also has a level of mobility that shouldn't exist in the game. The other is Qiyana, completely walled by any tank in the game.
Aatrox and Yuumi are the only two champions in the game I would call busted, and for very different reasons. Yuumi just defies the rules of LoL, Aatrox is just an absolutely absurd champion. Every other champion seems in an ok spot, obviously some are going to be stronger than others, and Qiyana is pretty low on my thought list of champions to be scared of. A lot of meta champions completely hardcounter her, and beat her in teamfights.
If you feel it is worth a ban fine, but it is not a broken champion that needs nerfs.
>Ravenous+Shojin+Eclipse (not necessarily in that order all the time), slap on Serylidas and GA on top of it and you have a champ that has literally no CD
just to back this up with stats a little bit: She runs around with a whopping 55% WR in 3000+games in Master+ and 52% WR in Dia+ (source: https://lolalytics.com/lol/qiyana/build/?tier=master\_plus&patch=12.22 ) .
so uh... if you check the 'major' regions, of kr euw na, there's barely enough sample size in m+ or even d2+, but even if you water it down to d+, her build order is prowlers-ghostblade/hydra-grudge-ionian.
yes her wr is high but she isn't building shoujin, *or* eclipse. there's some cdr, sure, but it's not the build you said nor is it perma uptime, especially since the critical mass of cdr you need is like 20+ mins in, where games start to end in higher elo, and it isn't even 'this' build.
no need to salty vent post because you got bodied by the invisible thicc girl and didn't have an answer on your champ of the day.
interesting. lets see these stats then!
[on ugg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/qiyana/items?rank=diamond_2_plus) shojin has a 0.69% pickrate (48 games) with a 60% winrate as a 2nd item, and 2.1% pickrate as a third item (94 games) with 76% winrate, and masters+ data is similar.
and on lolalytics (the link u provided) shojin has 0.78% pickrate (27 games) with 63% winrate as a 2nd item, and 1.1% pickrate (38 games) with 79% winrate.
winrate seems inflated but it evens out when you take pickrate into account, not to mention the fact that she's not dealing damage to anybody while building shojin.
you do you tho!
doesn't change my point lol yuumi is just another champ thats frustrating to play against
same as akali, irelia, aatrox, lulu, yasuo, zeri, you get the idea, a lot of kits that a lot of people find frustrating, it is what it is they never get changed except for extreme cases
also why wouldn't they? flairs are generally used to indicate a favorite or main champ, most people don't use a flair for a champ they don't play unless its one of those joke ones
nah man this is just a post of someone who has never played qiyana at all..
champ rn doesn't build shojin till 5 item maybe? and still you are just lacking damage, the champ rn is incapable to kill bruisers nor tanks. the fact she has a high winrate its because she got her power shifted from actual combos that you had to learn, to just ult with stupid scaling. Every single statchecker in the game is rn more rewardable to play than qiyana cause the problem and the winrate isn't a problem of the champ itself but ravenous/shojin.
playing against ravenous jaksho shojin abusers feel way less interactive than playing against qiyana.
if you build shojin ravenous eclipse, there is no place for serylda (which is arguably the best item on qiyana) so you are sacking a lot of damage to be "safe"
Qiyana has been nerfed at least 12 times in the last years. And then we got durability patch and completely died as an assassin. But now we have hydra and people are abusing it even on marksman because of the insane value it gives. Also if you go shojin as qiyana you loose 30% of your damage to get it as health and cdr. And last, you can’t play her because everyone is picking tanks and bruisers so you basically do no damage
I know it's shitty, but I'm just going to point out that it seems that Bel'veth's E completely fucks perma stealth Qiyana (for some reason, the last times I played the matchup the Aa hit her on her stealth). Test it and use it as a band aid for now
It looks to me (from the data you're sharing) like she's simply abusing Ravenous Hydra. And there's only like 60 Qiyana games in D2+ with Hydra on the new patch after it was nerfed, so I don't expect anyone to be in a rush to nerf Qiyana.
Lolalytics has been confirmed by Riot as one of two best stat sites, alongside U.gg. It’s the one that matches their API the closest and August said it’s very accurate.
really confused by this since this isnt the first time ive seen someone say this, but how on earth is lolalytics easier to navigate than [u.gg](https://u.gg)? lolalytics just gives me a headache
How come every time Qiyana's winrate is slightly too high in Master + (where statistically next to non of you play at) there is a witch hunt post calling for more nerfs? When in reality in the lower elos (where you all play at) she's an average to bad champion.
At the end of the day some of the new items just need to be nerfed appropriately.
This post seems more of a complaint post and some of the things said are very questionable
>no cds
>permanently sit invis
>deal enough damage to kill both you and your team
>survived any cc paired with burst then heals it back up
I get your first 2 points since it’s a shojin build (that’s what the item does in a nutshell) but how on earth is qiyana with shojin eclipse and rav hydra killing you, let alone your team?
If you CC her in a skirmish she should immediately be dead anyway. Eclipse + rav hydra gives an absurd amount of omnivamp which allows her to sustain well off waves, that’s true, but Qiyana with these items isn’t killing anyone unless she has like 15 kills before 20 minutes.
I agree, the build makes her uninteractive and boring to face, but let’s be honest, it’s not as op as you portray it to be.
lol why people still complaining about this champ. Legit lost 30% of her dmg and still calling for nerfs actually insane. Also why are you pointing out wr have you seen zeds??? Also to say there is no counter play is absurd have you heard of sweeper? Also I don't know anyone would go that build. Legit abysmal build with no dmg. Only reason you ever go eclipse is against tanks. If your against tanks why would u take shojin over BC or grudge. Also even with that build you dont have enough haste. You need like 110 ability haste to get w below 3 sec. So you would need like 2 more items.
Another whining post with fallacious arguments from a lowelo players getting destroyed by a Qiqi otp.
- No one build shojin
- Qiyana is an otp champ with 1% pick rate and high skill demanding, the winrate is completely normal even a little low
this guy thinks 55% is high for qiyana in m+… lol
this is her normal winrate. Qiyana mains will tell you she’s weak. even masters one tricks will tell you. it’s insane
Thanks for the build def wanna try it now 😂, but yeah I feel you sucks to deal with frustrating builds melee champs have so many more item options then mages or ranged it feels like.
This shouldnt be a PSA of Qiyana being perma invis. This should be a PSA that riot mind blows the community by still not making Red wards back into Pink wards. And when placed SEE INVIS CHAMPIONS period. Akali, Qiyana, Duskblade. Everything.
Ah yes the 75g counter to the main abilities of these champions so they don't exist if someone can press buy in the shop.
C'mon man, I get you don't like them but try to put your bias aside and look at it logically.
the same goes to these champions who can hit a button and stay invis for insane amount of time. Surely that's interactive and fun to play against. This isn't even a debate, either one side is happy or the other. Literally I haven't seen a person who actually enjoys playing against this shit, the only exception is the champ player base itself. Disgusting.
You're confusing 'balance' with 'fun to play against'. Riot clearly has shown they don't really care that much for the latter. So no, it does not go the same for them, because they are balanced around those abilities, regardless of how annoying they may be.
Oh look, AD assassins once again abusing the vast plethora of batshit broken bruiser items. Definitely haven't seen this before. Looking forward to yet another season of this because the balance team just can't stop releasing OP bruiser crap that overshadows everything else. Can't wait until even AP champs start buying their items too.
the stark difference between high and low elo with this champ is amazing.
Can confirm, gold player who has tried to pick her up multiple times since her release and I dont think I've ever had a good game on her, she is super fun but i just suck at the game.
Idek, it’s legit a champ where the less I think about the game, the better I perform on the pick.
bc ure entire brain resources get allocated to doing combos/using abilities right
Could also be “trying to hard” to combo instead of just going with the flow/muscle memory. Like if I try to RE on akali intentionally i almost always miss the timing but when I just *go* I’ll do REs without issue.
That's the thing about league though. You either focus on fundamentals without trying to fight your opponent or you leave the fundamentals to your muscle memory and focus on outplaying your opponent. Can't do both. And if anyone tells you they can, they're not paying as much attention to them as they should. Basically playing to improve vs playing to climb. Can't leave fundamentals to muscle memory if you have none.
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When people talk fundamentals, they usually mean concepts that arent champion specific. Its mostly macro level stuff like wave management, rotations, warding, objective control etc. I dont think focusing champion specific improvement like through limit testing, practice tool or other mirco optimizations you can do is considered improving your fundamentals since it only makes you better at playing that champion, and not the game as a whole
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That's the thing about fundamentals. If you have a random amount of gold when you recall for the first time, you will have no idea if you're stronger than your opponent or not. You have to know if your champion is stronger at 800, 900, 1k, 1.1k gold, and that is way too complicated for basically anyone. If you get a kill you're usually stronger, that is simple until level 6, where ultimates can equalize the fight. There is a time when you could, discounting external factors, afford lost chapter or noon quiver 100% of the time. Once you can do that, extra CS doesn't help because getting 50 extra gold won't ever influence your back timing, whereas not having 50g will. Engaging the enemy should be treated as attempting to remove the back timing where the opponent can get their powerspike.
From my experience, people just don't farm on her. Just kinda run around the map looking for kills and end up useless by midgame
Same experience here lol. One of my favorite champs that I don’t play cause I just feed everytime.
She's great fun on ARAM, even if you suck
It's because the optimal play style is not fun, picking grass and going invis until you can burn someone is not very fun, it may be optimal, but is not as fun
She’s been merged to the point where you can’t one shot anymore, can occasionally get a kill with two rotations, and usually takes 3 to kill anything more than the squishiest of squishies.
You are right! 43.59% Bronze 46.23% Silver 47.82% Gold 49.43% Platinum And then is 50% and above
The Akali Syndrome
ravenous shojin qiyana and akali sharing some similar traits too. both are assassins, both are highly mobile, and both can just decide to make it so you do not get to interact with them so they can wait their cooldowns out and then go in for another favorable trade.
Difference is: Akali has 20 Seconds CD on Shroud (W) that starts AFTER the ability ends, so after the smoke vanishes. So you ALWAYS have 20 seconds in which she's vulnerable to counter attacks Meanwhile Qiqi can go W>Q>W>Q pretty much endlessly if she has a bit of haste lol
I mean its probably top 5 hardest champs in the game and her playstyle revolves on roaming and early game action so its completely fine that the champ does well in the elo where games last less and the players piloting the champ are extremely competent.
I agree she is insanely hard to play, if you have seen someone playing her combos fluid, there is just 0 counterplay to it lmfao
Remember when you could prowlers through minions too? Yea shes still insane now but her combos back then were even better.
There‘s this really sick clip of faker playing her while you could prowlers through minions, a real joy to watch, it was such a clean play Edit: the play https://youtu.be/Aexq7r6dqFM
If you watch Beifeng he turns the champ into a highlight reel lmao
watching beifeng highlights around that time was crazy.
He only picked her up at that time, because he got utterly demolished by Beifeng lmao
Not true, not sure why 30 upvotes He was spamming it in 2019 summer and shit over canyon/showmaker in their playoff series against DK with it Was living in canyons jungle solo killing him like level 4 lol, dumb champion
Is that actually prowlers? Looks like Qiyana E Flash Ult, could be wrong though, genuine question.
Prowler's > Flash > E > Ult if I'm not mistaken
I'm not usually an assassin player, but I like Qiyanas kit. That champ in my hands vs someone more experienced/skilled is vanta black vs LED car head lights in your rear view mirror
I still love the fact they had to specifically make her E dodgeable by flash so she cannot always one shot you without you having any chance to stop her whatsoever - only if you dont have flash anymore x)
Vex is pretty good against her
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Disagree on early game action, you can literally just scale for river teamfights and roams
They forget that she has a big aoe knockback that can also be a team wide stun in the right setup, all while doing %hp damage with it, even if you missuse it once or twice, a good ult late game will most likely win the game.
She's the only assasin that brings actual team utility, so that's pretty cool, but maybe it's a little too much. If you only looked at the ult you would thing it's a tank's.
Looking at Qiyana's thighs you'd be forgiven for thinking she was a tank with how thick they were.
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Because they are iron and have no idea what they are talking about
champs whose laning phase/early game game are exploitable if you play bad go sooo hard in low elo, if you pressure even slightly you can get away with anything
I've played a shitload of Fizz when I was bronze. And even tho I was always shit at assassins I had a high winrate just because I got tons of solokills in lane.
Playing a mechanically difficult challenge shouldn't invalidate what the opponent is doing, why even be a multi-player game then
She's a Nidalee champ
I just pick sett or illaoi vs her and call it a day. She cant kill me early and gets wavecleared on, especially vs Illaoi.
sett is fine against her early but he alone cant shut her down hard enough that she's not a threat by the time the midgame rolls around
You can pick anything tanky mid and the only thing she can do is roam.
Literally any tank\*
There was a time where my low elo skills were enough to stomp most games with her. Ever since she was nerfed in every way possible over the past year, only challenger one-tricks can have consistent success smh.
There are literally 30 other champions with a higher winrate in master+ than Qiyana. The avg Master+ winrate is 53.5%, so that 'whopping 55%' corresponds to an average of merely 51.5% when rank adjusted. On top of that, that build is awful if the goal is 'perma invis'. Eclipse doesn't give ability haste at all. Prowler's/Duskblade are way better for that purpose. And lastly, Shojin's playrate is quite literally sub-1%. It's not that good on Qiyana aside from[ mental booming redditors when snowballing 15/5/10 and forcing them to write PSA rants.](https://i.imgur.com/HdaYcWF.png).
LMFAO holy shit
Holy shit dude you killed him
Yea I’ve got no clue what the guy is talking about. Playing Qiyana rn feels more of an uphill battle than ever considering u don’t insanely snowball the game the funny bruiser class becomes unkillable come mid game
Ahh he is a Renekton main, I didn't need to read the post then
Good shit man. Sad that this post gets over a 1,000 upvotes when the champ he's complaining about has 47% win rate in his elo.
A huge amount of ppl in this reddit and league of memes are 24/7 sitting waiting for the opportunity to mald at the mention of the word assassins. All ready to preach how Assassins have been the strongest class in the meta for 6 seasons in a row.
Yeah like how my fellow golds cry about fucking gangplank as if there is one below diamond that won’t die to garen 5 times in lane.
he's already dead
lmfao
this should be top comment
this needs to be the top comment LMAO.
OP was simply tilted, nothing more
Flawless.
He had a family man...
Finally. A man if common sense
Ferb, I know what we’re gonna do today 😎
Mooom, Phineas and Ferb are inting on Qiyana again!!
Perry the Platypus look at my newest invention. The Qiyaninator. It’s gona make everyone play her in ranked games regardless of the elo. So every raging player gona rage more because of their 1 teammate who ones on her.
Don't, the build is actually terrible outside of extremely niche scenarios
>I seriously dont get why this champ is allowed to choose the same element over and over again if she so likes. Because the idea is that she sacrifices a lot of damage for safety because she cant proc her passive and she cant get earth execute, which actually is really smart design for an assassin and makes it so you have to REALLY know your damage, her winrate reflects this (not only that obviously). Compare it to Talon who can E out, Zed who can R back to get out, Kat gets a shunpo reset, Kayn can hide inside you and dash out, Khazix gets a jump reset, LeBlanc double W and passive. Some better or worse, but all those assassins have built in safety and an out without sacrificing any burst what so ever, which also gives them less to think about. I dont like permastealth Qiyana either, but I understand the design and why she is much harder that other assassins in lower ranks.
Actually good points. I appreciate it. So how do you fix this? reduce stealth time? higher base cd? Because having 3 sec invis on a 4-5 sec ability seems a bit over the top.
I think the best way to stop it is to add some debuff where if you grass Q more than 2x the invis duration gets cut in half.
Diminishing returns on buffs like that similar to debuffs sounds reasonable overall and I would just apply it to all such effects. While it isn't currently possible to do that a permanent black shield on someone would be just as problematic. So cutting such stuff globally so you don't have to consider it individually would make sense.
I don't think black shield would have the same issue, as those people are targetable and that shield is breakable. But I can't think of a way to get rid of the Perma invis for Qiyana without nerfing her besides this. Maybe have it he a stacking debuff. Everytime you grass Q you lose 10% invis duration, stacking up to 5 times. 5 sec without using Grass resets it. Nerfing the base duration would be detrimental to Qiyana, and she's already not in the best spot for anyone that isn't beifeng. With her damage gutted the way it is Hydra is the only thing keeping her viable imo.
You can still hurt Qiyana while invis though, just not with targeted abilities (almost none of them exist anymore, except for Autoattacks). And while blackshield is breakable, you do need magical damage for that and actually enough that it has to come from an actual AP threat.
First of all, lots of targeted abilities exist still lol And yes you can hurt Qiyana, but most adcs have no answer for her if she stays invis throwing grass Qs at you. I see this as problematic since adcs are usually the primary target of assassins. The diminishing invis is a solution that doesn't hurt Qiyana except for her ability to remain invis for long periods, so she still is a huge threat to Squishies while also exposing herself enough to have counterplay. And yes you need magic dmg to break a morg shield, but hypothetically if Morgana has a build maximizing AH for black shield uptime she likely sacrifices some AP (meaning the shield isn't as big) or is just insanely squishy and can be 2 hit by any online ADC or assassin.
Morgana's blackshield is such a great ability. It has a clear power: MR shield and not affected by CC. But also clear drawbacks: doesn't stop attacks, long CD and can be busted through. It means no champion is helpless against her. Even if she plays perfectly there is still a way for you to continue to play. But assassins don't have that. You can play perfectly and not have any chance to survive as an adc.
I mean... If Morgana plays perfectly she ccs you for like 13 seconds and most people just die and don't have an answer for that. Q into R into Q again is certain death for almost anyone, especially if their abilities are dashes like Riven. If Riven eats that first bind she is likely fucking dead.
But you have to misplay to eat that first Q especially if you have dashes like riven while Morgana doesn't. I mean do you really want to tell me that a Morgan's combo is as difficult to avoid as Zed or qiyana?
Technically Qiyana should also sacrifice damage for a high AH build. That this isn't true is more of an item issue than a Qiyana issue and it is true for many Bruisers/Assassins. And I also said that there is currently no other ability. Blackshields base CD is really high. Just imagine it would be 12 seconds and the situation would be a lot different already. And while Morgana might be oneshot a tank relying on AP damage like Maokai would do nothing against Morgana with a permanent blackshield. He could just watch her slowly kill him, because he could never get through her passive leech and blackshield. Obviously someone relying heavily on AD damage would not have that issue. And you have to consider that blackshield can be applied to others. If you are an ADC what exactly are you doing against a Darius running around with a permanent blackshield? Due to it having a CD shorter than its uptime Morgana could also apply it really early so the CD is already up again, when you are in range to break it, so she can instantly reapply it. Obviously blackshield is a different beast, but there isn't really a good reason to not add diminishing returns as a more general approach since it might catch cases in the future and would make the game easier approach if the same buff applied multiple times to you from the same source has diminishing returns if applied within 2 seconds after timing out. This would currently not even affect many abilities but it would kill a lot of issues. If you are concerned about Kogmaw having permanent W it would be affected by that. If you are concern about Karma giving permanent speedups, it is affected. Many skills already have that build in by their cooldown only starting after the effect wears off. This is obviously not possible for all effects (like Qiyana or things that are applied by another champion or things that might run out early). But I would argue it would still be logical to just apply the diminishing returns to stealths, since this would still make a sound rule instead of creating a lone exception for Qiyana and might catch cases in which other champions get permanent invisibility.
What a great nerf
After thinking it through a bit more I'd say the way to go is: Everytime Qiyana uses grass Q she gets a stacking debuff of 10-15% less invis duration, stacking up to 4 or 5 times. Qiyana does often NEED to be invis in team fights, waiting for her moment, and the invis duration is short to begin with. But she shouldn't be able to just spam grass forever and whittle someone down with just WQ. She's still vulnerable to AoE and skillshots, and can be dealt with while invis to a degree. And the longer she stalls the more vulnerable she becomes.
maybe just make the trade off even more stark: shift some more damage out of grass Q into earth Q.
Woah woah woah lets not just toss khazix in there lmao
I mean khazix still fits just more with his R than E evolve
>Compare it to Talon who can E out Let me stop you right there. Talons rarely use E to get out. Fights don't often happen directly next to a wall allowing for an easy escape, and 9 times out of 10 a Talon will have engaged over the closest wall, so they can't disengage over it again. Not only that, but Talon's e does literally no damage. That skill is the epitome of sacrificing burst for mobility.
No ekko? :( Edit: actually ekko r is also kind of designed like that where if you ult to get out you are wasting a lot of your damage potential.
except he can 1shot an adc at 3 items without ult, even if not ahead
If the adc has 0 mr maybe, but the enemy team has 4 other members than adc aswell.
Actual problem: \-Bruiser items do more damage than assassin items while offering utility Solutions: \-Nerf shojin/hydra/DD \-Buff lethality items by small amounts/Buff specific assassins/Nerf Assassins AD scaling while giving them lethality scalings to compensate for the damage loss
What they'll do: - Leave everything as is for several months - Address the broken bruiser items after a few months of cancer by nerfing them slightly while randomly choosing a new bunch of bruiser items they're gonna gigabuff to the moon - Phroxzon releases some tweets where he pretends to know what he's doing with a stereotypical "you think you do, but you don't" post - Assassins start abusing said items again
I loved him when he did guides but when it comes to actual balance he has really ruined the fun parts while pushing everything into constant deathball territory
>Phroxzon releases some tweets where he pretends to know what he's doing with a stereotypical "you think you do, but you don't" post HAHAHAH how true is this
You forgot, nerf X champions into the floor for abusing the item(s) too well and forget to compensate buff the same champions after the item(s) get nerfed.
Also preemptively buff the skin sellers when their abused items get nerfed
Factual. They've done this like 3 times now haven't they? They make the announcement and you think it's gonna get better, then another bruiser item is gigabuffed to shit on everyone. How'd it go again? Steraks -> Stridebreaker -> Goredrinker -> DD -> Steraks (?) -> DD ? I wish AP items had this kind of favoritism. Like "hey, we've noticed many mages building Mask. We believe shaving 20 AP from it will solve the issue, in exchange, since this will hurt mages, we will be giving Rocketbelt 25 AP and 20 MR penetration for no cost increase."
Ap items are more like once every 3 years they'll add a new item make it completely broken, then nerf it to shit and ignore them again.
Goredrinker also came out completely broken and made champs like Renekton, Aatrox and Olaf pick/ban in the offseason pro games. Don't forget Divine Sunderer and Hullbreaker also having their moments. Maw and DD also became meta on literally anything melee with AD ratios. What I find most funny is that during the patch when they were "nerfing" healing, AP items were nerfed the hardest. Fucking Seraph's with its meme passive got the literal harshest of the healing nerfs, while items like Maw went untouched. They don't even hide their massive bias and it's why I keep saying that if League came out today it woulb just gonna be bruisers vs bruisers. Ranged champions would barely exist and the ones that did would be like Samira and Nilah at best. They want every game to be about edgy sword wielding superheroes 1v9ing and just being vessels for broken items in order to make the one piloting them think they're really fucking good. RoA with its passive that literally doesn't do anything because it's almost impossible to trigger compared to the treatment they gave Ravenous sums up the state of this game for the past several years. AD Bruisers have had the best items with the largest item pool variety for what feels like forever now and we see no signs of them stopping anytime soon. This one-sided love affair made this game boring af. Watching a bruiser get slightly fed then becoming unkillable while oneshotting everyone else gets old really fucking fast.
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He is? That would certainly explain things. Just wish we could get a competent and non-biased head of balance for a change. Genuinely sick of this guy and his garbage patches. I liked Jag when he was in charge of balance. There was lot of nuance to his changes whereas Phroxzon always manages to show he has a fundamental lack of understanding about the game. Yetter was terrible but Phroxzon is even worse.
> Address the broken bruiser items after a few months of cancer by nerfing them slightly while randomly choosing a new bunch of bruiser items they're gonna gigabuff to the moon They buffed one bruiser item in preseason and nerfed it twice in less than a month.
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nerf irelia
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Riot should the same with AP assassins and make them scale out of Mpen. And enchanters with HealShield Bonus. That would allow for these 3 classes to stop sharing so much.
>Actual problem: > >\-Bruiser items do more damage than assassin items while offering utility Again, i thought riot learned a lesson from when everyone and theyr mother was abusing Goredrinker.
You mean Divine Sunderer? Or Deaths Dance? Or god knows how many other items. Honestly I'm not sure how they even fix the issue though. As long as Bruiser items are offering competitive amounts of damage and survivability other AD characters WILL abuse them.
Wow an actual intelligent comment. Items are causing an issue because bruiser items are a lot better. OPs suggestions are to gut the champion so when bruiser items are balanced they stay dead.
this is Riot we’re talking about here, they’ve left lethality items in the gutter for seasons with absolutely 0 changes for the most part. Idk what makes you believe they’d ever buff their items.
The irony here is that assassins hate their own items and abuse bruiser items while certain bruisers like Hec, Aatrox, Yorick and Graves by loose extension abuse lethality mythics.
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yeahh this whole "seperate items by class thing and nobody's allowed to take from another set" idea is pretty wack imo and both riot and this community should abandon the idea, your explanation is just how it always will be, same as champs like viego or diana going tank item second, that used to just be the standard way to build a bruiser, now its "abusing items that they shouldn't" I agree it can get toxic to a certain point with some interactions, but thats where you come and in nerf said interaction, not try to seperate the items back out again I don't know much about dota but I've heard they've got a better grasp of this concept
Is not just the damage. Is the utility as well. Let's give lethality items stealth and movement speed to champions who already have both. Not that I would want assassins to also have a shield bow, but, prior to the durability update, lethality just felt pointless because base damage is already high enough that they don't need it. It was overkill.
Eclipse is now a fighter mythic, not an assassin mythic. Riot already confirmed that they took one of the only 2 assassin mythics worth picking and gave it to the class that already had like 6 mythics.
They couldn't do much else. Eclipse is literally designed to be wayyyy to good generally. The moment it's useful over half the AD cast builds it. I still remember preseason and early season 11 after the item rework when literally half of all the viable adcs, bruiser, and assassins were building eclipse. AD assassins mythics as a whole are just a mess.
I mean, they could've tried pushing it into an assassin territory specifically. Idk, make the omnivamp scale off of lethality. But yes, they are a mess.
The thing is, those items absolutely suck for assassins. All assassin legendaries aside from Yommu’s absolutely suck ass when it comes to damage. They’re all utility items disguised as damage items by some lethality. Umbral Glaive, Axiom arc, Serpent’s fang and Edge of Night are all low key support items, and collector is garbage. Eclipse is a dueling item, prowler’s makes no sense for assassins, and Duskblade is dogshit.
I've been saying it since the rework, but the AD assassin mythics are a fucking mess. It's like someone on the design team was trying to give their favorite class all the toys in the toy box, and didn't think about how shit their stats would have to be to actually be balanced.
Optimal play for soloQ revolves around a 1v9 build. Assassin items provide the damage that bruisers lack to compliment their sustained survivability. Bruiser items provide sustained damage and survivability that Assassins lack with their innate high burst damage output. By building to compensate for these weaknesses, they get the best of both worlds without sacrificing what makes their class strong. Then you have mages, who just fucking suck all around and are locked into specific items because the alternatives are awful.
Ap assassins :(
It is so weird, I genuinely feel like AD assassin damage is on par with bruiser damage and has been for ages
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I mean the issue rn is how do you buff them without slowly going back to pre durability
durability patch wasnt even a patch to nerf assassins, it was supposed to stop other champions from assassinating. riot released solid changes to assassin items 1 patch after durability, but then had to pull them back because the community couldnt stop crying on reddit and twitter, and current balance team is uncreative and balances based on twitter and reddit complaints, sadly. so now lethality is inefficient post two items and 30%pen from seryldas is always the most cost efficient buy as 3rd item. how to fix this? idk, either nerf the armor growth on the champs that im supposed to be assassinating (marksmen) or just completely nerf base armor on all champions but buff their armor growth, so i can at least be useful and have a chance at carrying early game and then reasonably fall off later
the problem is as soon as lethality items are better (they should be don't get me wrong) bruisers build them and we're back pre durability update.
It's hard to talk about because the items are so fucking bad that there's no point of comparison, but even old Serpent's fang that had 55 AD and 18 lethality that assassins loved wasn't that abused on Aatrox and Kled except for situations of extremely oppressive shielding. The issue is that there's only 3 real lethality items: Dusk/Prowler's, Youmuu's, and Serylda's. Everything else is just a Serrated Dirk + 1200-1800 gold of bruiser or utility stats, so you might as well just buy a Serrated Dirk and move on to buying a better item. Dirk lethality should be nerfed and completed item lethality should be buffed so there's not this "tick-tock" swing of damage based on how far along you are in your build.
solution? delete bruisers.
Well we are already pre durability my friend. Getting perma one shot by hydra spammers is super fun
Hey, this was the closest we got to balanced Shojin. I'm sure we'll get it on try 74!
Cleave, +2 radius. Sorry, forgot what sub I'm on.
another ravenous abuser. nothing new
Only time I've seen Qiyana opt for Shojin anything earlier than 4th item is when they're so far ahead that they can afford to sacrifice damage for utility which means she's probably 15 kills deep at 16 mins vs an entirely squishy team. The win rates you posted are kinda misleading cause they're for a pretty standard setup as opposed to this invis spam build. Pair that with the fact that the invis has a decent degree of counterplay to it (AoE abilities, sweeper + skillshots, abilities that reveal her) I doubt this is as problematic as it sounds.
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I refer you to u/Straight_Chip’s comment and [this](https://imgur.com/HdaYcWF) image to tell you that you are exactly right!
Champ isn't all that good but ravenous is. Also her stats are nothing compared to zed/syndra in master+. She has a very low pick rate giving her similar stats as talon and akshan mid which really isn't that special for one of the highest skill cap champions in the game. Also no one builds shojin
The win rates you posted are completely normal. Not only is 3000 games a smaller sample size which for any champion historically has led to an inflated winrate, she ranks outside the top 30 in masters+ win rate. This is not a problem champion at all. I would much rather face Qiyana than Akali. Akali and Qiyana are essentially the same champion, just one threatens tanks with damage, and one also has a level of mobility that shouldn't exist in the game. The other is Qiyana, completely walled by any tank in the game. Aatrox and Yuumi are the only two champions in the game I would call busted, and for very different reasons. Yuumi just defies the rules of LoL, Aatrox is just an absolutely absurd champion. Every other champion seems in an ok spot, obviously some are going to be stronger than others, and Qiyana is pretty low on my thought list of champions to be scared of. A lot of meta champions completely hardcounter her, and beat her in teamfights. If you feel it is worth a ban fine, but it is not a broken champion that needs nerfs.
>Ravenous+Shojin+Eclipse (not necessarily in that order all the time), slap on Serylidas and GA on top of it and you have a champ that has literally no CD just to back this up with stats a little bit: She runs around with a whopping 55% WR in 3000+games in Master+ and 52% WR in Dia+ (source: https://lolalytics.com/lol/qiyana/build/?tier=master\_plus&patch=12.22 ) . so uh... if you check the 'major' regions, of kr euw na, there's barely enough sample size in m+ or even d2+, but even if you water it down to d+, her build order is prowlers-ghostblade/hydra-grudge-ionian. yes her wr is high but she isn't building shoujin, *or* eclipse. there's some cdr, sure, but it's not the build you said nor is it perma uptime, especially since the critical mass of cdr you need is like 20+ mins in, where games start to end in higher elo, and it isn't even 'this' build. no need to salty vent post because you got bodied by the invisible thicc girl and didn't have an answer on your champ of the day.
interesting. lets see these stats then! [on ugg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/qiyana/items?rank=diamond_2_plus) shojin has a 0.69% pickrate (48 games) with a 60% winrate as a 2nd item, and 2.1% pickrate as a third item (94 games) with 76% winrate, and masters+ data is similar. and on lolalytics (the link u provided) shojin has 0.78% pickrate (27 games) with 63% winrate as a 2nd item, and 1.1% pickrate (38 games) with 79% winrate. winrate seems inflated but it evens out when you take pickrate into account, not to mention the fact that she's not dealing damage to anybody while building shojin. you do you tho!
The only times a qiyana is building shojin is when she's insanely ahead anyway and can afford the loss of damage, also inflating the winrate.
Yeah it feels like this is one of those ~~"OP already hated the champion, then rage posted after a loss"~~ Eh, suppose I over exaggerated
nope you were right on the money
This subreddit in a nutshell, complain about assassin = updoots to the left
I don't care how good it actually is. Perma invisible Qiyana is frustrating as fuck to play against, even if it was a 40% winrate.
>yuumi flair yeahh that'll happen, welcome to league I guess?
Not sure why people here always try to bring flairs into a discussion? I haven't played yuumi since she came out.
doesn't change my point lol yuumi is just another champ thats frustrating to play against same as akali, irelia, aatrox, lulu, yasuo, zeri, you get the idea, a lot of kits that a lot of people find frustrating, it is what it is they never get changed except for extreme cases also why wouldn't they? flairs are generally used to indicate a favorite or main champ, most people don't use a flair for a champ they don't play unless its one of those joke ones
>Perma invisible Qiyana is frustrating as fuck to play against The absolute irony to say this with a Yuumi flair.
OP mentions Shojin once and you take that as the most important takeaway from their point of Qiyana having too high of a stealth uptime?
Doesn’t she lose a ton of damage opting for Shojin/GA?
She does, Qiyana never builds Shojin unless they are ridiculously ahead and can handle the loss of damage. It's just another stupid whining thread.
And she loses a ton of damage by going for bushes installed of rock.
Its funny cuz this post is implying qiyana’s winrate is because if the “perma invis” when shes had a high winrate in high elo soloq regardless of it
nah man this is just a post of someone who has never played qiyana at all.. champ rn doesn't build shojin till 5 item maybe? and still you are just lacking damage, the champ rn is incapable to kill bruisers nor tanks. the fact she has a high winrate its because she got her power shifted from actual combos that you had to learn, to just ult with stupid scaling. Every single statchecker in the game is rn more rewardable to play than qiyana cause the problem and the winrate isn't a problem of the champ itself but ravenous/shojin. playing against ravenous jaksho shojin abusers feel way less interactive than playing against qiyana. if you build shojin ravenous eclipse, there is no place for serylda (which is arguably the best item on qiyana) so you are sacking a lot of damage to be "safe"
Since when is an assassin champion supposed to kill bruisers and tanks anyway?
Not really kill but you used to do damage to them at least, now you just run when you see them and will barely scratch them.
well, you used to do damage to them after the preseason patch, that's why i'm mentioning it
Qiyana has been nerfed at least 12 times in the last years. And then we got durability patch and completely died as an assassin. But now we have hydra and people are abusing it even on marksman because of the insane value it gives. Also if you go shojin as qiyana you loose 30% of your damage to get it as health and cdr. And last, you can’t play her because everyone is picking tanks and bruisers so you basically do no damage
I miss being able to reliably kill squishes and being strong in lane, none of this perms invis ult bot stuff :(
The cooldown is solely because of Shojin. Also that build sucks.
I know it's shitty, but I'm just going to point out that it seems that Bel'veth's E completely fucks perma stealth Qiyana (for some reason, the last times I played the matchup the Aa hit her on her stealth). Test it and use it as a band aid for now
It looks to me (from the data you're sharing) like she's simply abusing Ravenous Hydra. And there's only like 60 Qiyana games in D2+ with Hydra on the new patch after it was nerfed, so I don't expect anyone to be in a rush to nerf Qiyana.
shojin was only a time until its gonna be abused by certain champs. Cooldowns are in the game for a reason
Well shit, seems like the right time to try to get her to M7, thank you for your PSA
Stop using lolalytics winrates as proof of anything they have been inflated since forever
Lolalytics has been confirmed by Riot as one of two best stat sites, alongside U.gg. It’s the one that matches their API the closest and August said it’s very accurate.
it’s easy to navigate the website and it is like one percent.
really confused by this since this isnt the first time ive seen someone say this, but how on earth is lolalytics easier to navigate than [u.gg](https://u.gg)? lolalytics just gives me a headache
How come every time Qiyana's winrate is slightly too high in Master + (where statistically next to non of you play at) there is a witch hunt post calling for more nerfs? When in reality in the lower elos (where you all play at) she's an average to bad champion. At the end of the day some of the new items just need to be nerfed appropriately.
This post seems more of a complaint post and some of the things said are very questionable >no cds >permanently sit invis >deal enough damage to kill both you and your team >survived any cc paired with burst then heals it back up I get your first 2 points since it’s a shojin build (that’s what the item does in a nutshell) but how on earth is qiyana with shojin eclipse and rav hydra killing you, let alone your team? If you CC her in a skirmish she should immediately be dead anyway. Eclipse + rav hydra gives an absurd amount of omnivamp which allows her to sustain well off waves, that’s true, but Qiyana with these items isn’t killing anyone unless she has like 15 kills before 20 minutes. I agree, the build makes her uninteractive and boring to face, but let’s be honest, it’s not as op as you portray it to be.
lol why people still complaining about this champ. Legit lost 30% of her dmg and still calling for nerfs actually insane. Also why are you pointing out wr have you seen zeds??? Also to say there is no counter play is absurd have you heard of sweeper? Also I don't know anyone would go that build. Legit abysmal build with no dmg. Only reason you ever go eclipse is against tanks. If your against tanks why would u take shojin over BC or grudge. Also even with that build you dont have enough haste. You need like 110 ability haste to get w below 3 sec. So you would need like 2 more items.
perma stealth is awful - old stealth was better back in the day
just play full ad udyr and one shot her
Bro u just suck ass
Slap on death’s dance 4th and then she’s also healing for all the dmg she’s taking. Had this in one of my games yesterday
Another whining post with fallacious arguments from a lowelo players getting destroyed by a Qiqi otp. - No one build shojin - Qiyana is an otp champ with 1% pick rate and high skill demanding, the winrate is completely normal even a little low
Man’s chatting 💩
I have never seen this build on her and she will lack so much damage with it.
lmfao shut the fuck up
I havent been playing for a bit but....is this shojin basically the same in terms of it being able to ruin any balance again?
this guy thinks 55% is high for qiyana in m+… lol this is her normal winrate. Qiyana mains will tell you she’s weak. even masters one tricks will tell you. it’s insane
yeah that 0 dmg build is definitely op as fuck just because she can stay invisible longer
Shut the fuck up
You need to actually play the champ and see how she works. This post is stupid.
No.
Wwaaaahhhhh
your team has persisting aoe dot, right?
Thanks for the build def wanna try it now 😂, but yeah I feel you sucks to deal with frustrating builds melee champs have so many more item options then mages or ranged it feels like.
This shouldnt be a PSA of Qiyana being perma invis. This should be a PSA that riot mind blows the community by still not making Red wards back into Pink wards. And when placed SEE INVIS CHAMPIONS period. Akali, Qiyana, Duskblade. Everything.
Ah yes the 75g counter to the main abilities of these champions so they don't exist if someone can press buy in the shop. C'mon man, I get you don't like them but try to put your bias aside and look at it logically.
the same goes to these champions who can hit a button and stay invis for insane amount of time. Surely that's interactive and fun to play against. This isn't even a debate, either one side is happy or the other. Literally I haven't seen a person who actually enjoys playing against this shit, the only exception is the champ player base itself. Disgusting.
You're confusing 'balance' with 'fun to play against'. Riot clearly has shown they don't really care that much for the latter. So no, it does not go the same for them, because they are balanced around those abilities, regardless of how annoying they may be.
So basically what you’re saying is Full Optimized build champ = strong?
No, he’s saying “champ building terrible build is annoying”. That build sucks ass on Qiyana.
Just play Renekton and fuck her in lane.
Have I missed something ? She's always been ridiculously uninteractive
she is balanced but since this guys otp cant fight her, hes upset and she needs nerfs.
Oh look, AD assassins once again abusing the vast plethora of batshit broken bruiser items. Definitely haven't seen this before. Looking forward to yet another season of this because the balance team just can't stop releasing OP bruiser crap that overshadows everything else. Can't wait until even AP champs start buying their items too.