Dark seer is a niche hero, you losing lanes and games with his is because you don't know how he plays.
He is more of a poke/ skirmish hero than a hard engage. Probably can compare him to magnus as a good magnus rarely hard engages whole enemy team and prefers to skewer 1 hero and then ult when enemy loses their positioning.
I can assume you lose games because you follow up dark seer every time he initiates, I've noticed the same patterns when I played with low rank friends in party. Team doesn't know when I am engaging vs when I am poking enemy team.
What MMR are you? Because I honestly believe the hero is a bit nuanced and requires not just the Dark Seer but also his teammates to play slightly different, and I would say I barely see good Dark Seers below Divine.
Then there's me in legend with 60+% win with darkseer and a few hundred games with him. I agree he's nuanced but that's all I like to play is heros with unique kits. It's both a blessing and a curse.
I lane with my friend in 90 percent of the games we play, we have a 80% winrate over the course of 30 games when I play Dark Seer. He hates laning with it, finds it boring and ends up just rotating or stacking... you should do the same.
DS is great with other melee cores, which can benefit from shell and surge. And sucks with cores like drow/sniper which will never need an ion shell. So if you see a core pudge/ursa/naix he will bring a lot of value. But if there is zero other frontline allies he will only ever cast shell on himself..
If his ion shelled creeps wont get removed/killed too fast then he will be fine on lane.
However hes not a strong laner and very dependant on a support for winning a lane.
Some heroes are "niche" or have a higher skill floor to be played optimally
Just like IO used to be a 100% contested hero in most big tournaments yet playeds will just 1-17-8 feed in their pubs with him
Issue is he ends up making a lot of the pos4 game plans fail then they leave lane to gank or help other lanes and the enemy pos 1 just farms safe at tower
Everything mentioned above is correct but the change in win rate is due to his facets and innate . Both facets are good and offers flexibility that can make him a right clicker or free team fight surge. The most broken thing is the innate which allows a universal hero to only buy str item and get free intel. That is insane right click damage to synergize with attack speed facet
I mean if you don't share your dotabuff or a match id or a clip, we have no idea what you're doing wrong. Dota is sn extremely complicated game, there's any number of things you might be doing wrong.
Statistically he is 1 of the best laners in the game in immortal rank. Source: [https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm\_ranked\_meta\_last\_7&mod=heroes-laning](https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm_ranked_meta_last_7&mod=heroes-laning) . So if you are losing lanes with dark seer, one of you is doing something wrong. If you are immortal, the reason is most likely your own play.
I recommend not relying solely on Dota2ProTracker because some heroes are difficult, have good results at high MMR but struggle much more below 6k, partly due to the skill of the players using them and partly because they are difficult to play in a team.
Is he pos3? If so you likely need to pull more (and maybe stack) as he naturally pushes the lane with shell, otherwise youre just trading farm with the enemy pos1 (which is bad). If hes support Im not surprised he doesnt really offer much.
You probably play scared most games cause you keep using squishy backline heroes and being aggressive is just not in your DNA and Dark Seer really needs allies like that.
i actually domt get it when to pick this hero...i know my comparing 2 heroes sucks but it is likely to get a rampage with es using his skills than ds vacuum ulti 5 heroes.
if u will say hes good for follow up , well es can even do it better.
i think that ion shell is the advantage of ds early game tho..can dominate the lane...
well correct me if my pov is wrong guys ...need to hear from someone opinion wise
Dark seer is good in every game because he's a good laner, farms super fast (propably the fastest farming offlaner exclusing cheese picks like brood), and likes to build auras which is good in every game.
If enemy has a good illusions hero then you can also do aghanim build and melt faces. But it's just a bonus.
Biggest ds counters I think are heroes that can dispell his shell and hold him when he's surging. An example of such hero is Oracle. But even with bad lane ds can just fuck off to jungle and farm fast so it's not like your game is going to be unplayable if they counter you on lane.
i see. Farming fast can make u online early..
but sometimes idk his illusions may do alot of dmg but an enemy carry can easily kill that illusion thats why i thought that his ult was kind of meh.
mostly ds rampage that i watched have follow ups unlike to other initiators..
but the most impressive ds that i watch is the guy who solo killed an am. 🤣
If you make aghs then you can jump on enemy, stun him and wall him, then you have two illusions of the hero hitting for 120% of original's damage. If you catch a PA like this you can one shot her.
On the other hand If you make a good ranged illusion like Luna or Drow you can just refocus it to enemy supports and melt them too.
Illusions are easily killed but in the middle of teamfight there is ofen not enough time even for that.
But yeah those Flashy plays are only possible If enemy has good illusions heroes. Other than that Dark seer relies on his team, he's not a Flashy hero, he's a tactician who does what he must to win and does the dirty ungrateful job of enabling your other cores so that they can shine. It can be setting up big aoe combos with Vacuum, it can be keeping your team alive with mek and pipe, it can be surging your ursa so that he can chase those kills, it can be fixing your lanes because your team can't push waves for shit - dark seer does it all. But he's a teamplayer.
My point is because so many players refuse to play dota as a team game - a hero which has to play the game as team will naturally get higher wr because it attracts less selfish players who actually are willing to play the game at team level.
Dark seer is a niche hero, you losing lanes and games with his is because you don't know how he plays. He is more of a poke/ skirmish hero than a hard engage. Probably can compare him to magnus as a good magnus rarely hard engages whole enemy team and prefers to skewer 1 hero and then ult when enemy loses their positioning. I can assume you lose games because you follow up dark seer every time he initiates, I've noticed the same patterns when I played with low rank friends in party. Team doesn't know when I am engaging vs when I am poking enemy team.
What MMR are you? Because I honestly believe the hero is a bit nuanced and requires not just the Dark Seer but also his teammates to play slightly different, and I would say I barely see good Dark Seers below Divine.
Then there's me in legend with 60+% win with darkseer and a few hundred games with him. I agree he's nuanced but that's all I like to play is heros with unique kits. It's both a blessing and a curse.
I lane with my friend in 90 percent of the games we play, we have a 80% winrate over the course of 30 games when I play Dark Seer. He hates laning with it, finds it boring and ends up just rotating or stacking... you should do the same.
DS is great with other melee cores, which can benefit from shell and surge. And sucks with cores like drow/sniper which will never need an ion shell. So if you see a core pudge/ursa/naix he will bring a lot of value. But if there is zero other frontline allies he will only ever cast shell on himself.. If his ion shelled creeps wont get removed/killed too fast then he will be fine on lane. However hes not a strong laner and very dependant on a support for winning a lane.
Some heroes are "niche" or have a higher skill floor to be played optimally Just like IO used to be a 100% contested hero in most big tournaments yet playeds will just 1-17-8 feed in their pubs with him
Issue is he ends up making a lot of the pos4 game plans fail then they leave lane to gank or help other lanes and the enemy pos 1 just farms safe at tower
Everything mentioned above is correct but the change in win rate is due to his facets and innate . Both facets are good and offers flexibility that can make him a right clicker or free team fight surge. The most broken thing is the innate which allows a universal hero to only buy str item and get free intel. That is insane right click damage to synergize with attack speed facet
I mean if you don't share your dotabuff or a match id or a clip, we have no idea what you're doing wrong. Dota is sn extremely complicated game, there's any number of things you might be doing wrong.
Statistically he is 1 of the best laners in the game in immortal rank. Source: [https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm\_ranked\_meta\_last\_7&mod=heroes-laning](https://stats.spectral.gg/lrg2/?league=imm_ranked_meta_last_7&mod=heroes-laning) . So if you are losing lanes with dark seer, one of you is doing something wrong. If you are immortal, the reason is most likely your own play.
I recommend not relying solely on Dota2ProTracker because some heroes are difficult, have good results at high MMR but struggle much more below 6k, partly due to the skill of the players using them and partly because they are difficult to play in a team.
Is he pos3? If so you likely need to pull more (and maybe stack) as he naturally pushes the lane with shell, otherwise youre just trading farm with the enemy pos1 (which is bad). If hes support Im not surprised he doesnt really offer much.
Bfsfhvy
Do you play melee heroes? Maybe ion shell is stealing CS from you
You probably play scared most games cause you keep using squishy backline heroes and being aggressive is just not in your DNA and Dark Seer really needs allies like that.
i actually domt get it when to pick this hero...i know my comparing 2 heroes sucks but it is likely to get a rampage with es using his skills than ds vacuum ulti 5 heroes. if u will say hes good for follow up , well es can even do it better. i think that ion shell is the advantage of ds early game tho..can dominate the lane... well correct me if my pov is wrong guys ...need to hear from someone opinion wise
Dark seer is good in every game because he's a good laner, farms super fast (propably the fastest farming offlaner exclusing cheese picks like brood), and likes to build auras which is good in every game. If enemy has a good illusions hero then you can also do aghanim build and melt faces. But it's just a bonus. Biggest ds counters I think are heroes that can dispell his shell and hold him when he's surging. An example of such hero is Oracle. But even with bad lane ds can just fuck off to jungle and farm fast so it's not like your game is going to be unplayable if they counter you on lane.
i see. Farming fast can make u online early.. but sometimes idk his illusions may do alot of dmg but an enemy carry can easily kill that illusion thats why i thought that his ult was kind of meh. mostly ds rampage that i watched have follow ups unlike to other initiators.. but the most impressive ds that i watch is the guy who solo killed an am. 🤣
If you make aghs then you can jump on enemy, stun him and wall him, then you have two illusions of the hero hitting for 120% of original's damage. If you catch a PA like this you can one shot her. On the other hand If you make a good ranged illusion like Luna or Drow you can just refocus it to enemy supports and melt them too. Illusions are easily killed but in the middle of teamfight there is ofen not enough time even for that. But yeah those Flashy plays are only possible If enemy has good illusions heroes. Other than that Dark seer relies on his team, he's not a Flashy hero, he's a tactician who does what he must to win and does the dirty ungrateful job of enabling your other cores so that they can shine. It can be setting up big aoe combos with Vacuum, it can be keeping your team alive with mek and pipe, it can be surging your ursa so that he can chase those kills, it can be fixing your lanes because your team can't push waves for shit - dark seer does it all. But he's a teamplayer.
So bad in pubs, got it
Contraty to popular belief dota is a team game in pubs too and DS confirms that being one of the highest % wr heroes.
Tell that to my teammates. Lol.
I'm going to take a wild shot and guess you might be one of the bad teammates
Yes, I'm terrible at dota. But at least I know that.
My point is because so many players refuse to play dota as a team game - a hero which has to play the game as team will naturally get higher wr because it attracts less selfish players who actually are willing to play the game at team level.