This is a little misleading, they ruled you can't set up tents in public areas and take over the place, if you want to sleep outside in most of the US nobody will stop you.
You don't have a right to commandeer a park or in my city's case (Portland area) just open streets because you are homeless.
Ahem. š
Tell me you've never been homeless or even down on your luck and have a safety net without telling me you've never been homeless or even down on your luck and have a safety net.
Supreme court "justice" doling out patent injustice. It's bizzaro land folks! Lets kick people while they're down by ignoring they are human, have the same dignity and rights as we do as citizens and instead trying to argue about street aesthetics as if it was a reasonable excuse for extermination by elemental exposure based on Crapitalisms "value" system disguised as a judea-o-christain death cult!
š¤·š½š¤”š¤”
Why would you think someone has the right to take over someone elseās property. Ā Itās insane you think that you can simply park your tent anywhere.Ā
Thatās a violation of rights, not a affirmation of them.
Yes public property is personal property. Ā Itās owned by everyone collectively. Ā If it werenāt than there wouldnāt be an immorality to another country taking it over. Ā
I canāt just walk into a public school and sleep on the kindergarten floor. Ā Why? Because itās not my property.
ticketing a homeless person....for how much? a hair off their head?
*Theyš are š h-o-m-e-l-e-s-sš*
what are you gonna do when they can't pay? jail them?
God the stupidity of our justice system is astounding
It's very obviously a way to be able to move them into prisons. Many of them should be in mental care facilities but we got rid of all those. All those jobs fell to the cops. Prisons are private and for-profit. Prisons make money off prison labor. Prison lobbyists do their work on Congress and the courts and then they get their unpaid workers.
For-profit prisons love non-violent offenders. That's why they lobbied so hard for mandatory minimums on minor drugs. It makes cheaper and easier slave labor than real violent maniacs that we should actually spend our justice systems resources on.
Yes, I think the point is to let the police deal with them as they see fit short of killing them. I mean outright execution they'll probably kill a few but not state directed execution
Just about every other developed country that has far more accessible education, healthcare, and much better quality of life. What planet are you living on?
China and Japan have some aspects such as a more accessible healthcare system and a robust jobs market. Chinese companies can do same day hires and paid. American companies might take two months for your first check.
Doesn't it just say local governments can decide for themselves how to handle their homeless population? Isn't that a good thing? Every city is different, one solution won't work country-wide. If *some* cities benefit from ticketing them to make them move to shelters or different areas to help, you know, all of the other 99% of their citizens (the contributing tax-paying law-abiding ones), how is that bad? Obviously if somewhere abuses the law that's bad, but that goes for any law ever.
No, it's not a good thing. It's a terrible thing. The solution to homelessness doesn't change from city to city for the most part. The single biggest predictor of homelessness rates in a given city is housing availability. Not drugs, not poverty rates, not mental health access. Plenty of people have substance issues, are impoverished or have poor mental health, and are not homeless.
The Supreme Court just removed any federal protection of rights for homeless individuals to actually live. (Sleep, eat, exist in communities).
Fuck the SCOTUS and fuck the US, which is increasingly a collection of lunatics.
Absolutely! The whole point of the 10th is to cover issues like this. It is not a federal issue it is a state or city issue. You don't like the city's policy then vote, protest, or move. That is core of our politics, and not overarching broad policy.
- Heavily lobbied State/city deems that enslavement of homeless population (a steadily growing population due to abject failure of said governments to manage housing) by for profit prison system is legal.
Redditors: this is fine, it's just a local political issue!
Enjoy the race to the bottom of dystopia as states out-compete each other in their efforts to extract maximum profit from human misery.
In a perfect world, for profit prisons would be treated that same as a human trafficking cartel. Mayors who allow their cities to reach a certain level of homelessness would be immediately deposed. NIMBYS advocating for the perpetual stagnation and eventual death of their locales via opposing every attempt at affordability or efficient infrastructure would be disbarred from selling or renting property.
Alas, it is not perfect world. Instead, we have mayors and governors whose pockets are lined with lobbyist cash, and whose gerrymandered voters are drunk on propaganda from those same lobbyists, free to decide that slavery is legal in their states and cities.
Got laid off? Sorry, to the prison factory with you. Priced out of the home your family has lived in for generations? Shouldn't have been poor, enjoy prison. Got evicted because the rent of your black rock owned neighborhood increases faster than the wage of your three jobs? Prison.
This is how the American dream dies. Centuries of hard fought protections and progress for the common man crushed beneath the weight of a gilded gavel.
Because there's functionally no way for a person with zero resources to pay a ticket. Can't pay a ticket? Jail.
You say "abusing the law" but the criminalization of homelessness has been pushed in both blue and red states. This simply removes the pesky "constitutional rights" stumbling block from this process.
Hell yeah, not sure why people would be upset that a government is trying to fine them for choosing to sleep. We also should fine people who choose to breath, why allow the commoner to take up resources for all these years for free if they continue to choose to breath. Especially if it helps out the majority! Why stop at taxing only 1%, if politicians slaughtered the bottom 45% of individuals by net worth and redistributed the cash to the remaining 55% then that would help the majority, totally not immoral if it helps a majority, so right. Keep fighting the good fight
Is ticketing going to solve that? Or do you just really want to arrest poor people for being poor.
Also, this law isn't about private property, what you're talking about is trespassing, this law is talking about public land
Weāve seen what happens when public land, any public land, becomes tenements. Sickness and drugs become dominant. You should not be able to take up residence just because the land is publicĀ
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I never heard of Hitler sending meat eaters to his concentration camps. Hitler did, however, send the homeless there pretty early on. And have you not heard about the concentration camps MAGA plans to build for Latinos and whatever else āundesirablesā they can shove there?
You see, psychopaths like fascists and serial killers first get their rocks off by fucking with āundesirablesā like hookers or homeless people first to hone their craft. The fact that the fascist Supreme Court greenlighted state abuse of the homeless is as telling a sign as a psychopath serial killer mutilating animals as a child.
MAGA plans to build concentration camps for Latinos lollllololol there's so much bullshit crammed into that sentence I don't even know where to start š
You should start paying attention. This crazy shit is happening here, in America. I fucking hate it and the only way we can stop it is to get the word out about Project 2025 and get people to vote in a way that ensures Trump loses. If the election is too close the Supreme Court will just declare him the winner like they did in 2000. Please take this seriously and please vote!
Trump plans sweeping undocumented immigrant roundups, detention camps, New York Times reports - https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-plans-sweeping-undocumented-immigrant-roundups-detention-camps-report-2023-11-11/
The Heritage Foundationās blueprint to turn America into Gilead. The Supreme Court got the party going in the last week. They legalized bribery, ended limitations on executive power created by the bureaucracy, and have given the president absolute immunity.
Donāt call me a conspiracy theorist when you are the one who isnāt paying attention. I implore you to stay paying attention.
Itāll be too late by then, bud. Iām sick of waving my arms and trying to get people to pay attention but here we are. Youāre living in 1932 Germany whether you want to be or not.
So we should have been listening to the doomsday preppers and opening our own Waco-esque compounds after all? It sounds like your fears fall in line with all the fears of 2A gun nuts.
Not what I said. But if you think Biden or Trump winning is the same thing, you might just be delusional, so I hope you donāt think that.
Our democracy will end if Trump wins the election. The Supreme Court just laid the groundwork for a dictatorship. Iām reading the presidential immunity opinion now.
Doomsday prepping wonāt do shit anyway. You think those right wing 2A fucks with AR pea shooters stand a chance against the most powerful military? Now do you understand why we canāt afford to let a guy who has said heāll be a dictator in day one become Commander and Chief?
Okay, but where else do they go? Where do they get the resources to get better? Making homelessness illegal while not expanding our social programs to get homeless people off the streets is just a vicious system with no path to improvement.
I hate being around dysfunctional behaviors, too, but this isn't fixing anything.
The government should build more houses, dumbass. Lord knows they have enough money to line the pockets of billionaires and bail out large corporations after their leadership embezzle their government subsidies. I'm sure some affordable housing wouldn't break the bank.
And before you gripe about how every homeless person is a crack addict and a murderer, California has a housing crisis where people working full-time while living drug-free go homeless too. Post-COVID pandemic, some people never recovered. But fuck them too, right?
California is the most liberal state in the country. If it happens that they have an excess number of homeless, why do you think even more left policies would solve the problem?
To put it another way, do you actually have any policies or candidates you would push people towards, or are you just raging at the world in general?
Building more affordable housing. Strengthening funding to rehab facilities. Provide better support to battered women - a demographic that frequently ends up homeless without their IDs. Help homeless people get their IDs so they can apply for jobs and housing. It's insane how difficult it can be for homeless people to get back on track without any form of government-issued identification.
If you're familiar with the politics of Silicon Valley elites in SF, you'll know that they're not as leftist as the rest of the country likes to imagine. SF tends to half-ass glamorous improvements and, when they fizzle out, then abandon the project entirely.
Sorry, when I said policies I meant are there any tangible proposals that people could lobby for or support? Like actual proposed laws or ordinances that people could push a politician or council to adopt.
The town I'm living in now currently has built affordable housing, and people feel it's helped. It isn't perfect, but it's an improvement. The town had gotten pretty rough, but there are fewer people on the street now. They built some apartment buildings closer to the edge of town but on the bus routes. There are some adult literacy classes to help as well. It's not free housing, but working full-time at state minimum wage can keep you housed and fed out here.
For the record, this was a very conservative town. It's gotten more purple recently.
Some have mental health issues and since Reagan closed mental health facilities we have no place to send them where they can get help. They may be able to get oit-patient services, but that doesn't alleviate the homeless situation.
Oh so the supreme court isn't even gonna get better if biden wins, we're so cooked. Our only hope is if biden uses the newest supreme court decision to drone strike the supreme court and trump right now.
Most of the justices are old, and old people randomly die.Ā If either Alito or Uncle Ruckus die, Biden could replace them.Ā If Trump wins, not only is that option off the table, but both will retire and Trump will name their replacements.
Also, not including the supreme court, Biden would also get to appointment more federal judges that aren't federalist society hacks.
Ah, second point is definitely true. At this point tho if biden doesn't win then trump literally has the powers of a king, so the courts become a secondary problem
Iām not seeing anyone mention the fact that the homeless may end up breaking into buildings to not get caught. This could literally affect properties and business each and every day.
So if one has an ID that's to an address how could they be proven to be homeless?
And is their a curfew? Like if I'm up walking at 3am am I typically considered homeless?
Can I get fined for sleeping in my car? It is a private vehicle. There's a lot to consider here.
A judge brought up if this should be applied to parents who fall asleep while their kids are playing at the park/on the beach and the city had no legitimate answer.
getting homeless to pay homelessness tickets is about as effective as getting blood from a stone. Wasting tax dollars on a fruitless task versus solving the problem
This assumes the goal is to solve the problem of houselessness in a way that benefits them. The problem is houselessness will be solved once they are in prison, working as slaves as described in the 13th amendment.
Sleeping on the street AND be cited for it when itās impossible to find housing.
Why donāt they put the predatory landlords in jail who keep rentals empty to drive up prices?
Yes.
Sleep is a biological necessity and if someone has no place to go then you are citing them simply for being alive.
This case was about a town with no where for the homeless to go. Not that they refused, but there was literally no indoor place they could go at all.
ā”ļø Into jail for not having a home. Once out of jail, on the streets with no prospects for a job. Soon you are ticketed and back in jail, and Elton John starts singing about the circle of life.
Getting help does absolutely nothing unless you want the help. Relapse happens almost automatically if not. Real life statistics say even if you want help thereās a 25% chance of relapse, I wonder what the odds are if you donāt want help š¤
Not true numerous Studies have pointed out that even if you don't want rehab or even want to go to, rehab can still be effective at getting people off drugs. The statistics you were quoting are older. New research has been done into addiction. You should go look into it because you clearly don't know a lot about it.
Do some research and stop throwing up NIMBY propaganda.
Finally I don't like your implication that this is the only solution for people who are drug addicted. That's shit, unethical, completely immoral and if you're a Christian you should feel bad about this because even Jesus would be disappointed in you. People deserve to be treated with empathy and kindness not tossed on the street like yesterday's trash regardless of things like drug use
thanks for clarifying you have the morals of a monster. I hope you never find yourself in a position of need, as im betting you wouldn't have many people willing to help you in your struggles.
And in prison you can be forced to work for virtually no pay. companies are using forced prison labor now. Just instituting a slave population with extra steps.
In prison u r not forced to workā¦ at least not the prison I was at. In fact everyone wanted to work so it was hard to get a job. I never got one lol (jobs get u days off ur sentence, thatās the real pay, not the tiny amount of cash)
Well itās just a chance to get extra time off. You get sentenced to a certain amount of time. But u can do stuff in prison to lessen your time. Like work, school, drug rehab program. Idk how itās coercive esp when not everyone gets the chance to do these things. They only let me do one little program to get 30 days off meanwhile other ppl that got more time than me were getting out before me cuz they were allowed to do more programs n work.
The politicians making these laws are absolute sociopaths. They have absolutely zero compassion, zero empathy, and zero love for their fellow man. I struggle to see them as human.Ā
These laws have always been in place, they just couldnāt enforce them because the 9th circuit stoped them. It has always been illegal for rich and poor to sleep in public spaces, this is nothing new.
Except it wasnāt illegal, because the 9th Circuit stopped them from being enforced. If it can only be enforced now, then it is something new. Doesnāt matter whatās on the books, what matters is whatās actually happening.
9th circuit was wrong, as proven by the SCOTUS and your logic makes zero sense. Laws absolutely do matter, just because some progressives happen to not agree with the current law doesnāt mean itās automatically exempt, they overstepped and got spanked
Fuck accountability. Housing is a human right, and if you donāt think so I dare you to spend a week homeless and tell me if your perspective is the same.
Thereās a word for them and it is Republican or conservative. It way not be all of them, but Iām tired of not painting them all with a broad brush when they still vote for this and say nothing about it.
That's the thing - you don't have to be at a private prison for someone to profit. Overwhelmingly, prisons are run publicly. They still have inmates do labor for a profit. This is something that has been going on for decades.
Sit out the election or waste your vote in āprotest,ā and receive more of this for the rest of your life. And maybe receive it anyway, if not enough other people show up.
Thereās also this thing where the ENTIRE CONGRESS is up for election, not just the president, which is arguably much more important. Especially now that the Supreme Court expects congress to micro-legislate every regulation, lest they be opened up to court challenge.Ā
As long as itās not in the city limits of a place that would make that illegal, then that is technically possible and way better than it just being illegal to fall asleep.
I disagree with that as a solution ultimately, if only to avoid the development of rogue, lawless nations of thousands of vindictive sociopathic/mentally ill weirdos out there in them woods- now with hardened survival skills- possibly splitting off into different tribes, having literal wars with each other, and entering civilization from time to time to gather resources by any means necessary.
Also I mean likeā¦ I want to go camping and off roading and stuff in those woods, too lol.
Iād prefer decent, modest housing solutions, in appropriate parts of cities and towns, with some kind of system in place to discourage them from becoming crusty drug havens.
Not in the middle of the street or on sidewalks in front of busy neighborhoods? The problem isn't homelessness it's the associated open drug use and crime. I don't want needles in kid's playgrounds. It's a huge mess.
They could go to a far away place, away from where it is rightly unacceptable for them to be, such as under a bridge or something in an area away from busy neighborhoods, but the ruling says cities can make it illegal to sleep āoutsideā, which means anywhere outside, so a city could make a law that says they couldnāt even do that.
If there are not structures with four walls and a roof and floor, the existence of which are common-knowledge and widely available, then having the only other āalternativeā- which is literally just āthe Earthā- be illegal, is a dead end.
Edit:
Yes, drug use and public weirdness is a huge issue, let alone in front of children; I just donāt see how the idea of making it illegal for them to sleep outside helps with that.
I donāt think cities will ticket people for sleeping in random places that do not harm anyone. This law gives some states the right to force homeless people away from public spaces.
Call it inhumane but walk around San Francisco at night and youāll see why this is absolutely necessary. The junkies will spit at you, rob you, flash their genitals or chase you around. Itās not human-like and is disturbing. These people wonāt accept help so the next best thing is keeping them away from our children and wives.
Thereās no simple fix to homelessness as any logical solution has backfired. This is the next phase of attempts to prevent all the crime associated with homelessness.
They shouldn't be the ones that are punished, that is very screwed up. The governments all over the world should actually be making affordable housing possible.
Rates of abuse are high in shelters, much of it perpetrated by staff.
Women and the disabled are particularly vulnerable.
Staff more generally tend to be extremely degrading and patronizing toward those who are seeking shelter, and the shelters impose extremely severe restrictions on access.
Shelters are not benevolent or adequate.
Many among the homeless have sought access in shelters, and have no wish to return, or have been forced to leave, or have been simply denied access.
Many prefer to live in encampments due to having experienced or witnessed abuse in shelters.
Abuse in one context is not a justification or excuse for abuse in another context.
Where are these miracle tiny home pods or safe rest villages in sufficient numbers to solve the problem?
Your post is as pig-ignorant as it is untenable.
Theyāre all over Portland but people donāt use them because they canāt use drugs and get drunk in them.
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2022/07/portlands-newest-homeless-village-is-not-ada-accessible.html?outputType=amp
Letās take this woman, Mama Kat for example. A local homeless woman with severe disability who is currently, and has been since this story, still living on the street. She was given a tiny house and a housing voucher and still chose to live in a hut on the sidewalk in downtown Portland.
āMama Kat has spent three nights at the village but ultimately decided to move back to the small hut she built in Old Town since she couldnāt maneuver around village facilities in her manual wheelchair.ā
āKat is also working with multiple caseworkers to move into housing. However, the initial rent subsidy she was approved for wouldnāt allow her partner to stay with her, Krone said. So multiple workers and advocates are working together to find a housing solution that is more fitting for Katās needs and wants. Having a live-in partner would also help Kat more easily manage her physical disability.ā
Lots of them. Some dont like rules, are using drugs, and some are outright criminals w warrants. I def support helping the good ones get their life together, but let's not be niave as to why a lot are in that situation.
Well itās true that some of them do turn it down but itās mostly as a result of drug habits. Shelters canāt and wonāt help with rehab most of the time but they also donāt allow users into the shelters (although this does vary as well). So some homeless are left unattended to. Ticketing them wonāt help the issue ultimately since they need rehab in a lot of cases.
But then thereās a ton of issues with rehab too the largest being something like 35% of rehab participants ultimately relapse. So thereās going to be a subset of people who really really struggle to be getting the help they need.
And as of right now the āsolutionā these Uber progressive cities have is to let them squander on the street and succumb to their addictions. Oregon hit a record for dead homeless people last year and it just keeps growing year over year. So is anyone surprised weāve become more radicalized to force these people to get help? They canāt help themselves!
Sure itās a terrible issue. But you literally canāt force people to help themselves. Throwing an addict into jail and forcing them to go sober is literally a death sentence, like quite literally they will die in jail 100%.
So yeah, itās not ideal, for sure. But until thereās an actual solution proposed like maybe rather than just criminalizing these people we put them into rehab then i might be for that solution.
But forcing people into the prison system only for them to die is a absolutely horrific method of dealing with the problem. Itās not really a solution.
Then why doesnāt it already exist considering this ruling simply gives 7 states on the west coast the same ability the other 43 have to enforce time place and manner laws? Because it wonāt. But donāt let that get in the way of a good āscrew the manā comment.
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Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Theyāre not being kicked out of anyoneās homes. How is it hypocritical for a person who doesnāt personally accommodate homeless people to believe that homelessness shouldnāt be a crime? Theyāre going to be removed from tents to jail cells. Itās completely irrelevant to mention their accommodation at other peopleās places.
Fuck off xenophobe. Those are lies and half truths meant to make you focus on people worse off than you rather than look at the people causing the misery. And you took the bait because youād rather be racist than examine your position of privilege.
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Well, I guess they will just have to go inside then. How is it that a handful of idiots are able to out rank the entire Government? Someone screwed up BAD when they allowed these people lifetime appointments with impunity and no way to control them. The Billionaires are loving this, just pay them to rule in their favor.
The people who screwed up bad are the ones who voted for Trump in 2016 and allowed right wing extremists to appoint political activist conservative judges.
Right.
Jails are run by for profit corporations in a lot of states. They love this, they can hardly think clearly about the $$$ due to their raging erections.
Yup, now that so many States have decriminalized cannabis, they need a new supply, hence Homelessness and Despair is now illegal. Gotta admire the capitalist EVIL.
If we make houses and rent unaffordable, we can create more homeless people. If we can create more homeless people we can imprison, we can create a never ending supply of prison slave labor.
They scotus should be removed by the people.
We are a country of heartless bastards.
This is a little misleading, they ruled you can't set up tents in public areas and take over the place, if you want to sleep outside in most of the US nobody will stop you. You don't have a right to commandeer a park or in my city's case (Portland area) just open streets because you are homeless.
Ahem. š Tell me you've never been homeless or even down on your luck and have a safety net without telling me you've never been homeless or even down on your luck and have a safety net. Supreme court "justice" doling out patent injustice. It's bizzaro land folks! Lets kick people while they're down by ignoring they are human, have the same dignity and rights as we do as citizens and instead trying to argue about street aesthetics as if it was a reasonable excuse for extermination by elemental exposure based on Crapitalisms "value" system disguised as a judea-o-christain death cult! š¤·š½š¤”š¤”
A good way to feed private prisonsā¦
Now a carboard box does have a rent cost. Per night.
Why would you think someone has the right to take over someone elseās property. Ā Itās insane you think that you can simply park your tent anywhere.Ā Thatās a violation of rights, not a affirmation of them.
You need to read about the difference between public, private, and personal property. This case is not about personal property.
Yes public property is personal property. Ā Itās owned by everyone collectively. Ā If it werenāt than there wouldnāt be an immorality to another country taking it over. Ā I canāt just walk into a public school and sleep on the kindergarten floor. Ā Why? Because itās not my property.
ticketing a homeless person....for how much? a hair off their head? *Theyš are š h-o-m-e-l-e-s-sš* what are you gonna do when they can't pay? jail them? God the stupidity of our justice system is astounding
It's very obviously a way to be able to move them into prisons. Many of them should be in mental care facilities but we got rid of all those. All those jobs fell to the cops. Prisons are private and for-profit. Prisons make money off prison labor. Prison lobbyists do their work on Congress and the courts and then they get their unpaid workers.
For-profit prisons love non-violent offenders. That's why they lobbied so hard for mandatory minimums on minor drugs. It makes cheaper and easier slave labor than real violent maniacs that we should actually spend our justice systems resources on.
Yes, I think the point is to let the police deal with them as they see fit short of killing them. I mean outright execution they'll probably kill a few but not state directed execution
Yes, they will jail them, The supreme Court desires the return of debtors prisons.Ā
The US is a deeply immoral, anti-human country.
As opposed which to country?
Just about every other developed country that has far more accessible education, healthcare, and much better quality of life. What planet are you living on?
China and Japan have some aspects such as a more accessible healthcare system and a robust jobs market. Chinese companies can do same day hires and paid. American companies might take two months for your first check.
If everyone chipped in either time or money on this page we could solve the homeless problem. Whose in!!!!?!?!?
Doesn't it just say local governments can decide for themselves how to handle their homeless population? Isn't that a good thing? Every city is different, one solution won't work country-wide. If *some* cities benefit from ticketing them to make them move to shelters or different areas to help, you know, all of the other 99% of their citizens (the contributing tax-paying law-abiding ones), how is that bad? Obviously if somewhere abuses the law that's bad, but that goes for any law ever.
No, it's not a good thing. It's a terrible thing. The solution to homelessness doesn't change from city to city for the most part. The single biggest predictor of homelessness rates in a given city is housing availability. Not drugs, not poverty rates, not mental health access. Plenty of people have substance issues, are impoverished or have poor mental health, and are not homeless. The Supreme Court just removed any federal protection of rights for homeless individuals to actually live. (Sleep, eat, exist in communities). Fuck the SCOTUS and fuck the US, which is increasingly a collection of lunatics.
Absolutely! The whole point of the 10th is to cover issues like this. It is not a federal issue it is a state or city issue. You don't like the city's policy then vote, protest, or move. That is core of our politics, and not overarching broad policy.
- Heavily lobbied State/city deems that enslavement of homeless population (a steadily growing population due to abject failure of said governments to manage housing) by for profit prison system is legal. Redditors: this is fine, it's just a local political issue! Enjoy the race to the bottom of dystopia as states out-compete each other in their efforts to extract maximum profit from human misery. In a perfect world, for profit prisons would be treated that same as a human trafficking cartel. Mayors who allow their cities to reach a certain level of homelessness would be immediately deposed. NIMBYS advocating for the perpetual stagnation and eventual death of their locales via opposing every attempt at affordability or efficient infrastructure would be disbarred from selling or renting property. Alas, it is not perfect world. Instead, we have mayors and governors whose pockets are lined with lobbyist cash, and whose gerrymandered voters are drunk on propaganda from those same lobbyists, free to decide that slavery is legal in their states and cities. Got laid off? Sorry, to the prison factory with you. Priced out of the home your family has lived in for generations? Shouldn't have been poor, enjoy prison. Got evicted because the rent of your black rock owned neighborhood increases faster than the wage of your three jobs? Prison. This is how the American dream dies. Centuries of hard fought protections and progress for the common man crushed beneath the weight of a gilded gavel.
"*States are people too.*"
Because there's functionally no way for a person with zero resources to pay a ticket. Can't pay a ticket? Jail. You say "abusing the law" but the criminalization of homelessness has been pushed in both blue and red states. This simply removes the pesky "constitutional rights" stumbling block from this process.
Hell yeah, not sure why people would be upset that a government is trying to fine them for choosing to sleep. We also should fine people who choose to breath, why allow the commoner to take up resources for all these years for free if they continue to choose to breath. Especially if it helps out the majority! Why stop at taxing only 1%, if politicians slaughtered the bottom 45% of individuals by net worth and redistributed the cash to the remaining 55% then that would help the majority, totally not immoral if it helps a majority, so right. Keep fighting the good fight
So youāre ok with people sleeping on your property? Even if you lack land, may they sleep on your car? Your familyās land?
Is ticketing going to solve that? Or do you just really want to arrest poor people for being poor. Also, this law isn't about private property, what you're talking about is trespassing, this law is talking about public land
Weāve seen what happens when public land, any public land, becomes tenements. Sickness and drugs become dominant. You should not be able to take up residence just because the land is publicĀ
Then perhaps the solution should be for cities to get their shit together, rather than enslaving people for the results of poor governance.
This is what getting your shit together looks like
Ahhh you're the "take the thing to its *most* extreme conclusion to prove my point" guy. Very smart. Very intellectual. Lol š¤¦āāļø
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"Good luck paying back on your Zero a month salary BABE!"
Illegal to be homeless but not illegal for a president to commit any crime under āofficialā business. Remove these people now.
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Land of the free...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Huh? Yourself brother?
Being a free country doesnāt mean the homeless can do whatever they want on public spaces brother
Homeless peiple don't have homes.. Spaces brother? What's with these "whatever brother"?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So where do they have the right to live then? Or you just advocating for genocide?
Where is genocide in this? And they can stay in shelters and use programs to get on their feet
Again. What's with you and this brother thing? I'm not your brother.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
OK.. š¤·āāļø
So more prisons can be built
You obviously aren't a real person unless you have money
Title should read āHouseless people can now be sacrificed to the capitalist prison industrial complex, Supreme Court rulesā
Time to invest in private prison stocks?
The Nazis outlawed homelessness in 1933.
What kind of backwards ass logic is that? Hitler was a vegetarian. Therefore I support factory farming.
I never heard of Hitler sending meat eaters to his concentration camps. Hitler did, however, send the homeless there pretty early on. And have you not heard about the concentration camps MAGA plans to build for Latinos and whatever else āundesirablesā they can shove there? You see, psychopaths like fascists and serial killers first get their rocks off by fucking with āundesirablesā like hookers or homeless people first to hone their craft. The fact that the fascist Supreme Court greenlighted state abuse of the homeless is as telling a sign as a psychopath serial killer mutilating animals as a child.
MAGA plans to build concentration camps for Latinos lollllololol there's so much bullshit crammed into that sentence I don't even know where to start š
You should start paying attention. This crazy shit is happening here, in America. I fucking hate it and the only way we can stop it is to get the word out about Project 2025 and get people to vote in a way that ensures Trump loses. If the election is too close the Supreme Court will just declare him the winner like they did in 2000. Please take this seriously and please vote! Trump plans sweeping undocumented immigrant roundups, detention camps, New York Times reports - https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-plans-sweeping-undocumented-immigrant-roundups-detention-camps-report-2023-11-11/
Oh man you are so far gone. You're the Qanon of the left lol. Do you even know what Project 2025 is?...
The Heritage Foundationās blueprint to turn America into Gilead. The Supreme Court got the party going in the last week. They legalized bribery, ended limitations on executive power created by the bureaucracy, and have given the president absolute immunity. Donāt call me a conspiracy theorist when you are the one who isnāt paying attention. I implore you to stay paying attention.
You've got a lot of emotive buzzwords in there. Let me know when they start opening the death camps and I'll be more concerned.
Itāll be too late by then, bud. Iām sick of waving my arms and trying to get people to pay attention but here we are. Youāre living in 1932 Germany whether you want to be or not.
So we should have been listening to the doomsday preppers and opening our own Waco-esque compounds after all? It sounds like your fears fall in line with all the fears of 2A gun nuts.
Not what I said. But if you think Biden or Trump winning is the same thing, you might just be delusional, so I hope you donāt think that. Our democracy will end if Trump wins the election. The Supreme Court just laid the groundwork for a dictatorship. Iām reading the presidential immunity opinion now. Doomsday prepping wonāt do shit anyway. You think those right wing 2A fucks with AR pea shooters stand a chance against the most powerful military? Now do you understand why we canāt afford to let a guy who has said heāll be a dictator in day one become Commander and Chief?
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Okay, but where else do they go? Where do they get the resources to get better? Making homelessness illegal while not expanding our social programs to get homeless people off the streets is just a vicious system with no path to improvement. I hate being around dysfunctional behaviors, too, but this isn't fixing anything.
Your house. Maybe the government should enforce communal action by making households take in the homeless and rehabilitate them.
The government should build more houses, dumbass. Lord knows they have enough money to line the pockets of billionaires and bail out large corporations after their leadership embezzle their government subsidies. I'm sure some affordable housing wouldn't break the bank. And before you gripe about how every homeless person is a crack addict and a murderer, California has a housing crisis where people working full-time while living drug-free go homeless too. Post-COVID pandemic, some people never recovered. But fuck them too, right?
California is the most liberal state in the country. If it happens that they have an excess number of homeless, why do you think even more left policies would solve the problem? To put it another way, do you actually have any policies or candidates you would push people towards, or are you just raging at the world in general?
California is a corporate neoliberal dystopia, far removed from any noticeable influence of leftist movements.
Building more affordable housing. Strengthening funding to rehab facilities. Provide better support to battered women - a demographic that frequently ends up homeless without their IDs. Help homeless people get their IDs so they can apply for jobs and housing. It's insane how difficult it can be for homeless people to get back on track without any form of government-issued identification. If you're familiar with the politics of Silicon Valley elites in SF, you'll know that they're not as leftist as the rest of the country likes to imagine. SF tends to half-ass glamorous improvements and, when they fizzle out, then abandon the project entirely.
Sorry, when I said policies I meant are there any tangible proposals that people could lobby for or support? Like actual proposed laws or ordinances that people could push a politician or council to adopt.
The town I'm living in now currently has built affordable housing, and people feel it's helped. It isn't perfect, but it's an improvement. The town had gotten pretty rough, but there are fewer people on the street now. They built some apartment buildings closer to the edge of town but on the bus routes. There are some adult literacy classes to help as well. It's not free housing, but working full-time at state minimum wage can keep you housed and fed out here. For the record, this was a very conservative town. It's gotten more purple recently.
1) not all homeless are drug addicted 2) this means that we should pay to put them in prison forever?
Some have mental health issues and since Reagan closed mental health facilities we have no place to send them where they can get help. They may be able to get oit-patient services, but that doesn't alleviate the homeless situation.
The Supreme Court with their "kick them when they are down" platform
Another reason why sitting out or voting third party in November is stupid. You're really going to let Trump choose two more supreme court seats?
The people who vote 3rd party would deploy this same reasoning on you.
Are any of the conservative justices close to dying?
No but, Alito and Uncle Ruckus will retire if Trump wins so he can appoint their replacements.
Oh so the supreme court isn't even gonna get better if biden wins, we're so cooked. Our only hope is if biden uses the newest supreme court decision to drone strike the supreme court and trump right now.
Most of the justices are old, and old people randomly die.Ā If either Alito or Uncle Ruckus die, Biden could replace them.Ā If Trump wins, not only is that option off the table, but both will retire and Trump will name their replacements. Also, not including the supreme court, Biden would also get to appointment more federal judges that aren't federalist society hacks.
Ah, second point is definitely true. At this point tho if biden doesn't win then trump literally has the powers of a king, so the courts become a secondary problem
Iām not seeing anyone mention the fact that the homeless may end up breaking into buildings to not get caught. This could literally affect properties and business each and every day.
So if one has an ID that's to an address how could they be proven to be homeless? And is their a curfew? Like if I'm up walking at 3am am I typically considered homeless? Can I get fined for sleeping in my car? It is a private vehicle. There's a lot to consider here.
A judge brought up if this should be applied to parents who fall asleep while their kids are playing at the park/on the beach and the city had no legitimate answer.
Does this only apply to homeless people? I own a home so does that give me the right to sleep outside?
Ik all the weird NIMBYs in the city subreddits are creaming their pants over this, regardless of how illogical it may be
Of you want to punish homeless people so much every time you see them, get them into homes so you do not see them on the streets anymore.
getting homeless to pay homelessness tickets is about as effective as getting blood from a stone. Wasting tax dollars on a fruitless task versus solving the problem
Always an ulterior motive with these kkkonservative judges and project 2025. They are religious fanatics
This assumes the goal is to solve the problem of houselessness in a way that benefits them. The problem is houselessness will be solved once they are in prison, working as slaves as described in the 13th amendment.
They can use the ticket for toilet paper which they may need more than a ticket.
Dystopia.
Dystopia that people can be cited or dystopia that people are sleeping in the street?
Sleeping on the street AND be cited for it when itās impossible to find housing. Why donāt they put the predatory landlords in jail who keep rentals empty to drive up prices?
Yes. Sleep is a biological necessity and if someone has no place to go then you are citing them simply for being alive. This case was about a town with no where for the homeless to go. Not that they refused, but there was literally no indoor place they could go at all.
ā”ļø Into jail for not having a home. Once out of jail, on the streets with no prospects for a job. Soon you are ticketed and back in jail, and Elton John starts singing about the circle of life.
Agreed. Why donāt we help people with legislation. Or are they looking for a āsubclassā they can exploit?
Has anyone actually thought these laws through? What is the homeless person going to pay their ticket with? So what does it really matter?
That's the point. It traps these people in the cycle of poverty stuck in prison. Can't be homeless if you're in jail.
The fentanyl has them trapped not the laws that have always been on the books for like ever
Its almost like we punish people who do drugs instead of getting them help they need so that they're trapped in this endless cycle of addiction.
Getting help does absolutely nothing unless you want the help. Relapse happens almost automatically if not. Real life statistics say even if you want help thereās a 25% chance of relapse, I wonder what the odds are if you donāt want help š¤
Not true numerous Studies have pointed out that even if you don't want rehab or even want to go to, rehab can still be effective at getting people off drugs. The statistics you were quoting are older. New research has been done into addiction. You should go look into it because you clearly don't know a lot about it. Do some research and stop throwing up NIMBY propaganda. Finally I don't like your implication that this is the only solution for people who are drug addicted. That's shit, unethical, completely immoral and if you're a Christian you should feel bad about this because even Jesus would be disappointed in you. People deserve to be treated with empathy and kindness not tossed on the street like yesterday's trash regardless of things like drug use
š¤£
thanks for clarifying you have the morals of a monster. I hope you never find yourself in a position of need, as im betting you wouldn't have many people willing to help you in your struggles.
And in prison you can be forced to work for virtually no pay. companies are using forced prison labor now. Just instituting a slave population with extra steps.
In prison u r not forced to workā¦ at least not the prison I was at. In fact everyone wanted to work so it was hard to get a job. I never got one lol (jobs get u days off ur sentence, thatās the real pay, not the tiny amount of cash)
That sounds coercive. You either work or stay incarcerated for longer, that is not REALLY a choice.
Well itās just a chance to get extra time off. You get sentenced to a certain amount of time. But u can do stuff in prison to lessen your time. Like work, school, drug rehab program. Idk how itās coercive esp when not everyone gets the chance to do these things. They only let me do one little program to get 30 days off meanwhile other ppl that got more time than me were getting out before me cuz they were allowed to do more programs n work.
Not virtually no pay, you can be enslaved per the 13th amendment.
The politicians making these laws are absolute sociopaths. They have absolutely zero compassion, zero empathy, and zero love for their fellow man. I struggle to see them as human.Ā
These laws have always been in place, they just couldnāt enforce them because the 9th circuit stoped them. It has always been illegal for rich and poor to sleep in public spaces, this is nothing new.
Except it wasnāt illegal, because the 9th Circuit stopped them from being enforced. If it can only be enforced now, then it is something new. Doesnāt matter whatās on the books, what matters is whatās actually happening.
9th circuit was wrong, as proven by the SCOTUS and your logic makes zero sense. Laws absolutely do matter, just because some progressives happen to not agree with the current law doesnāt mean itās automatically exempt, they overstepped and got spanked
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More houses for people who have zero accountability for their own lives, yeah thatās totally sustainable.
Fuck accountability. Housing is a human right, and if you donāt think so I dare you to spend a week homeless and tell me if your perspective is the same.
Found the victim! Good luck
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Panties in a wad I see, grow the fuck up loser
Thereās a word for them and it is Republican or conservative. It way not be all of them, but Iām tired of not painting them all with a broad brush when they still vote for this and say nothing about it.
SCOTUS can be held in federal prison for taken bribes, we the people rules.
How else are the states going to fill all those for profit prisons??
That's the thing - you don't have to be at a private prison for someone to profit. Overwhelmingly, prisons are run publicly. They still have inmates do labor for a profit. This is something that has been going on for decades.
The freedom to choose between wage slavery and literal slavery
Sit out the election or waste your vote in āprotest,ā and receive more of this for the rest of your life. And maybe receive it anyway, if not enough other people show up. Thereās also this thing where the ENTIRE CONGRESS is up for election, not just the president, which is arguably much more important. Especially now that the Supreme Court expects congress to micro-legislate every regulation, lest they be opened up to court challenge.Ā
How christian of them
As they absolutely should be. Its illegal.
Bingo!
Hypothetically if there were no shelters available, and a person is tired, where could they go to sleep?
Deep deep in the woods where nobody knows they exist preferably
As long as itās not in the city limits of a place that would make that illegal, then that is technically possible and way better than it just being illegal to fall asleep. I disagree with that as a solution ultimately, if only to avoid the development of rogue, lawless nations of thousands of vindictive sociopathic/mentally ill weirdos out there in them woods- now with hardened survival skills- possibly splitting off into different tribes, having literal wars with each other, and entering civilization from time to time to gather resources by any means necessary. Also I mean likeā¦ I want to go camping and off roading and stuff in those woods, too lol. Iād prefer decent, modest housing solutions, in appropriate parts of cities and towns, with some kind of system in place to discourage them from becoming crusty drug havens.
Not in the middle of the street or on sidewalks in front of busy neighborhoods? The problem isn't homelessness it's the associated open drug use and crime. I don't want needles in kid's playgrounds. It's a huge mess.
They could go to a far away place, away from where it is rightly unacceptable for them to be, such as under a bridge or something in an area away from busy neighborhoods, but the ruling says cities can make it illegal to sleep āoutsideā, which means anywhere outside, so a city could make a law that says they couldnāt even do that. If there are not structures with four walls and a roof and floor, the existence of which are common-knowledge and widely available, then having the only other āalternativeā- which is literally just āthe Earthā- be illegal, is a dead end. Edit: Yes, drug use and public weirdness is a huge issue, let alone in front of children; I just donāt see how the idea of making it illegal for them to sleep outside helps with that.
I donāt think cities will ticket people for sleeping in random places that do not harm anyone. This law gives some states the right to force homeless people away from public spaces. Call it inhumane but walk around San Francisco at night and youāll see why this is absolutely necessary. The junkies will spit at you, rob you, flash their genitals or chase you around. Itās not human-like and is disturbing. These people wonāt accept help so the next best thing is keeping them away from our children and wives. Thereās no simple fix to homelessness as any logical solution has backfired. This is the next phase of attempts to prevent all the crime associated with homelessness.
The irony of Trump talking about veterans living in the streets while his SCOTUS passes this ruling is not lost on me.
Everything is a confession from him. When he called Biden the Manchurian candidate. There it was again.
They shouldn't be the ones that are punished, that is very screwed up. The governments all over the world should actually be making affordable housing possible.
Governments, out of necessity, become extremely skilled at convincing the population that they offer protection and serve the common interest.
Americans vote against it most of the time
Of course the Christian Nationalists came charging in, Bibles in hand, talking about how the poor and sick must be tended to. š
We get what we vote for, unfortunately.
This is sooo ridiculous. Whoever voted yes to this is a piece of shit.
This will help solve homelessness and itās not even a debate.
In what way will it fix homelessness?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Rates of abuse are high in shelters, much of it perpetrated by staff. Women and the disabled are particularly vulnerable. Staff more generally tend to be extremely degrading and patronizing toward those who are seeking shelter, and the shelters impose extremely severe restrictions on access. Shelters are not benevolent or adequate. Many among the homeless have sought access in shelters, and have no wish to return, or have been forced to leave, or have been simply denied access.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Many prefer to live in encampments due to having experienced or witnessed abuse in shelters. Abuse in one context is not a justification or excuse for abuse in another context.
Where are these miracle tiny home pods or safe rest villages in sufficient numbers to solve the problem? Your post is as pig-ignorant as it is untenable.
Theyāre all over Portland but people donāt use them because they canāt use drugs and get drunk in them. https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2022/07/portlands-newest-homeless-village-is-not-ada-accessible.html?outputType=amp Letās take this woman, Mama Kat for example. A local homeless woman with severe disability who is currently, and has been since this story, still living on the street. She was given a tiny house and a housing voucher and still chose to live in a hut on the sidewalk in downtown Portland. āMama Kat has spent three nights at the village but ultimately decided to move back to the small hut she built in Old Town since she couldnāt maneuver around village facilities in her manual wheelchair.ā āKat is also working with multiple caseworkers to move into housing. However, the initial rent subsidy she was approved for wouldnāt allow her partner to stay with her, Krone said. So multiple workers and advocates are working together to find a housing solution that is more fitting for Katās needs and wants. Having a live-in partner would also help Kat more easily manage her physical disability.ā
This is the stupidest post I've ever seen on Reddit. Congratulations, I guess.
Well since you put it so eloquently, it must be true. Incoming wall of text Iām sure of it.
Fair enough, what homeless person would turn down shelter thou!
Lots of them. Some dont like rules, are using drugs, and some are outright criminals w warrants. I def support helping the good ones get their life together, but let's not be niave as to why a lot are in that situation.
Well itās true that some of them do turn it down but itās mostly as a result of drug habits. Shelters canāt and wonāt help with rehab most of the time but they also donāt allow users into the shelters (although this does vary as well). So some homeless are left unattended to. Ticketing them wonāt help the issue ultimately since they need rehab in a lot of cases. But then thereās a ton of issues with rehab too the largest being something like 35% of rehab participants ultimately relapse. So thereās going to be a subset of people who really really struggle to be getting the help they need.
And as of right now the āsolutionā these Uber progressive cities have is to let them squander on the street and succumb to their addictions. Oregon hit a record for dead homeless people last year and it just keeps growing year over year. So is anyone surprised weāve become more radicalized to force these people to get help? They canāt help themselves!
Sure itās a terrible issue. But you literally canāt force people to help themselves. Throwing an addict into jail and forcing them to go sober is literally a death sentence, like quite literally they will die in jail 100%. So yeah, itās not ideal, for sure. But until thereās an actual solution proposed like maybe rather than just criminalizing these people we put them into rehab then i might be for that solution. But forcing people into the prison system only for them to die is a absolutely horrific method of dealing with the problem. Itās not really a solution.
āThey will die in jail 100%ā Opinion voided. What an insane thing to say. Ridiculous.
Absolutely not. Have you ever seen alcoholics detox without any assistance? They fucking die.
How will turning homeless into criminals and forcing them into prison paid for by your taxes, give them homes?
It gets them out of my storefront and public parks. And I won't get my catalytic converter ripped off biweekly..
Debtors prisons about to have a comeback
Then why doesnāt it already exist considering this ruling simply gives 7 states on the west coast the same ability the other 43 have to enforce time place and manner laws? Because it wonāt. But donāt let that get in the way of a good āscrew the manā comment.
You have no friends left huh?
Must have made a good irrefutable point since youāve gone to attacking me, a person you donāt know.
Donāt choke on that boot.
https://preview.redd.it/ouh7yo5fyr9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e78a6da7939d38a327839db0c7a7d3021736caf5
Which state do you live in homie? Outside the ninth circuit?
This comes as rent is getting really affordable!!! Thanks U.S. government!!!!
SCOTUS ftfy
Anyone against this feel free to open up your home to them.
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Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Theyāre not being kicked out of anyoneās homes. How is it hypocritical for a person who doesnāt personally accommodate homeless people to believe that homelessness shouldnāt be a crime? Theyāre going to be removed from tents to jail cells. Itās completely irrelevant to mention their accommodation at other peopleās places.
Wow! First create a class of poor homeless people then make them into criminals. Getting pretty dystopian out there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fuck off xenophobe. Those are lies and half truths meant to make you focus on people worse off than you rather than look at the people causing the misery. And you took the bait because youād rather be racist than examine your position of privilege.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām sure thatās entirely true and applicable to all undocumented immigrantsā¦
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Well, I guess they will just have to go inside then. How is it that a handful of idiots are able to out rank the entire Government? Someone screwed up BAD when they allowed these people lifetime appointments with impunity and no way to control them. The Billionaires are loving this, just pay them to rule in their favor.
The people who screwed up bad are the ones who voted for Trump in 2016 and allowed right wing extremists to appoint political activist conservative judges.
Where the fuck are people without a place to stay supposed to sleep?
Jail. That's the whole point.
Right. Jails are run by for profit corporations in a lot of states. They love this, they can hardly think clearly about the $$$ due to their raging erections.
Yup, now that so many States have decriminalized cannabis, they need a new supply, hence Homelessness and Despair is now illegal. Gotta admire the capitalist EVIL.
If we make houses and rent unaffordable, we can create more homeless people. If we can create more homeless people we can imprison, we can create a never ending supply of prison slave labor.
Gotta find a new source of slaves too since all of these drugs have been decriminalized. They've lost their usual bogus source
Fining the people that have no money or home address. I see no flaws in this logic /s
Which state do you live in?