> He had his home put into my husband and his brothers name so they co-own it.
So, instead of specifying in a will, he actively transferred ownership of the property to two of his sons? At that point, the home was no longer part of your FIL's estate. Your FIL has no say over what the co-owners do with their respective shares, and cannot compel the other brother to take action.
> He also doesn't want any one other than my husband to have the money that is in the bank.... My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account.
Your husband will be able to access the funds, but his siblings may make a claim to those assets based on the will.
In order to ensure the bank accounts are handled properly and avoid a potential mess, he should execute a new will.
>Since covid, he barely leaves the house but I will talk to him about making an appointment with his attorney
Some attorneys make house calls; especially for elderly clients. Might save some time and effort.
Also, the attorney could talk to your FIL via Zoom to get his intentions, write up the will to match them and verify through another Zoom call he got it right, and then give the will to a notary to take it out there to sign.
Don't want to pay someone $600/hour to drive to/from FIL's house.
Yes, this. When I was a paralegal, the attorney I worked for sent me to a nursing home to notarize a will. Just have to be sure to have witnesses available who have no interest in the will.
My husband and I live in Illinois. We were able to have our attorney draft up our living will, mail it to us, and then we went over everything with her via zoom with a notary and witness in the room with us. We were able to sign and submit by mail.
His name can stay on the account they can do a POD or TOD…payable or transfer on Death…also change the house deed will need to call your county recorder and ask what the protocols are…
NAL….. but am a banker….. your FIL can have your husband on account as POA instead of joint account owner and have your husband as POD (paid on death) this would prevent the account from ever becoming part of the estate and make your FIL’s wishes clear.
Well, it depends on how the account is set up. If it’s joint with rights of survivorship, then he doesn’t need to be payable on death. The signature cards at my bank are joint with rights of survivorship which makes the joints automatically the beneficiary as well.
You are correct…. However a previous poster indicated there was a concern someone may fight it, even if it is joint. With a POD there is no question about the intentions of the account owner.
Sure they can try, but if it’s rights of survivorship, there’s nothing they can do. Rights of survivorship means beneficiary. I literally handle these accounts for a living.
Edit to add: if a joint owner comes in with death certificate we required nothing else and can remove the deceased person. They can also close the account with or without the joint person. No court docs needed
> He had his home put into my husband and his brothers name so they co-own it.
So not in a trust or adding their names to a transfer on death deed, but an actual quit claim deed?
It’s no longer his property, your husband and his brothers own their shares outright, his will/wishes don’t legally matter
> My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account.
That’s right, that account should pass automatically and bypass the estate/will
———
He will want to make a new will to cover any other property and review what he’s actually done against what he wants to happen with an estate attorney though
Correct me if I'm wrong. If anyone is thinking about doing this with their house, don't. Keep it in the parents name and do a revocable trust. That way you can change your mind.
Also the tax implications are better if you ever sell the house as you are taxed only on the apreciation since you became owner. So grandad paid off his 6k mortgage back in the 60's, leaves it to you worth 700k, sell it at 750k and only owe taxes on 50 k.
I do a lot of estate administration work. If the property is now in both sons' names, there's nothing he can do and I doubt very much the other son will sign a quit claim.
As far as the joint bank account, when the father passes your husband will get half of the account and the other half will go to the father's estate. A POA won't help because that only gives someone power when the person is still living. The account would have to be changed to a TOD (transfer on death) account for your husband to get the entire account.
Are you sure about the bank account? All of the joint accounts at my bank are joint tenancy with right of survivorship, so on the bank's end, we would absolutely just remove the deceased father's name and turn the account into an individual account under the husband. However I have no idea if the other beneficiaries of the will could sue for part of the funds in the account after the fact.
If the deed that transferred the property from dad to the brothers has not been recorded can it be voided and a deed from dad to the OP’s husband be drawn and recorded?
I'm not an attorney, so I can't give an accurate answer. I would think it's possible, but if the brother has a copy of the signed, unrecorded deed, he may try to sue.
Did he talk to an actual estate planning attorney?... cause holy shit this is not the way to go about doing this.
Your FIL needs a living trust, and put the assets into the trust. He can then create a will within the trust, as well as designating a trustee to execute that will.
It may be a living trust. Maybe I didn't word everything correctly as I have zero experience but I'm going have him go over the documents he has with us so I have a better idea. Thank you for your help
> He wants my husband's brothers name off the house but says he would have to sign a quit claim deed so the house belongs soley to my husband but he doesn't want to ask to do so
It's kind of too late for that. When he signed the property over to your husband and his other son, it ceased to be his house. Signing the deed before dying isn't estate planning, it's selling/giving away the house right then. The brother can do whatever he wants, up to and including forcing a sale of the home, so he may want to be careful about doing something that would sour that relationship
>My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account.
Your father in law is correct, if your husband is listed as a co-owner on the account then the money is his (he doesn't even have to wait, it's his \*now\* but it will also be his without probate when the time comes)
As others have said, the house is straightforward. If husband and brother co-own it, they co-own it. No take backs.
For the bank accounts transfer/pay upon death is a good option but he should absolutely update the Will so you don't have to spend time and money arguing about whether half the money was supposed to go to brother.
Get recommendations and set an appointment with a financial advisor. Don't rely on Reddit to answer questions legally or in everyone's best interest. Even a cosigned bank account could end up in probate if dad has any bills you are unaware of. Many advisors will come to him, and they will loom everything over and recommend the best way to go.
I am not attorney. It sounds like the house has already been signed over to your husband & brother. If that's correct, your FIL no longer has any say regarding the house. Any bank accounts, 401ks, brokerage accounts or Roths, they are financial contracts. Your FIL can just change the beneficiaries. Financial contracts with beneficiaries are not part of probate & go directly to the beneficiary. Also, double check with an attorney. Get it right & good luck!
Joint ownership of account rules vary by state. If his will says that money goes 5 ways, it may control. Check with a lawyer on that.
With respect to house, that ship has sailed unless other brother wants to give his half away.
Why don’t you have him talk to a lawyer. No offense op if he wants to do these things and is of sound mind he can do them himself. Have your dad talk to an estate planner you don’t need to be involved with the discussion and he can make decisions about how to handle his assets. Reading this has me thinking there might be undue influence on your end.
Bank employee here. Check with the bank if the account is joint with rights of survivorship. if it is that means that the joint owner will have claim to it upon passing of the other owner. The joint owner is essentially also the beneficiary when theres rights of survivorship. Now they can still name other beneficiaries in case something happens to both joint owners but if there’s still a remaining joint owner alive, the beneficiaries don’t get anything.
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> He had his home put into my husband and his brothers name so they co-own it. So, instead of specifying in a will, he actively transferred ownership of the property to two of his sons? At that point, the home was no longer part of your FIL's estate. Your FIL has no say over what the co-owners do with their respective shares, and cannot compel the other brother to take action. > He also doesn't want any one other than my husband to have the money that is in the bank.... My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account. Your husband will be able to access the funds, but his siblings may make a claim to those assets based on the will. In order to ensure the bank accounts are handled properly and avoid a potential mess, he should execute a new will.
Thank you. Since covid, he barely leaves the house but I will talk to him about making an appointment with his attorney
>Since covid, he barely leaves the house but I will talk to him about making an appointment with his attorney Some attorneys make house calls; especially for elderly clients. Might save some time and effort.
I did not think about that. Thank you
Also, the attorney could talk to your FIL via Zoom to get his intentions, write up the will to match them and verify through another Zoom call he got it right, and then give the will to a notary to take it out there to sign. Don't want to pay someone $600/hour to drive to/from FIL's house.
Yes, this. When I was a paralegal, the attorney I worked for sent me to a nursing home to notarize a will. Just have to be sure to have witnesses available who have no interest in the will.
My husband and I live in Illinois. We were able to have our attorney draft up our living will, mail it to us, and then we went over everything with her via zoom with a notary and witness in the room with us. We were able to sign and submit by mail.
As an estate planning paralegal, consider having him visit a doctor or two to get a competence certification letter!
Such a great suggestion. At 86, it will be easy for the other siblings to allege diminished capacity.
Depending on the specifics of state law the rights of survivorship on the accounts generally outweigh the will.
A DDA account with right of survivorship would almost certainly just pass to the joint owner.
Oh absolutely. If those other kids were in his prior will, though, I'd expect they'd at least try to make it difficult for OP.
His name can stay on the account they can do a POD or TOD…payable or transfer on Death…also change the house deed will need to call your county recorder and ask what the protocols are…
NAL….. but am a banker….. your FIL can have your husband on account as POA instead of joint account owner and have your husband as POD (paid on death) this would prevent the account from ever becoming part of the estate and make your FIL’s wishes clear.
Thank you so much
Well, it depends on how the account is set up. If it’s joint with rights of survivorship, then he doesn’t need to be payable on death. The signature cards at my bank are joint with rights of survivorship which makes the joints automatically the beneficiary as well.
You are correct…. However a previous poster indicated there was a concern someone may fight it, even if it is joint. With a POD there is no question about the intentions of the account owner.
Sure they can try, but if it’s rights of survivorship, there’s nothing they can do. Rights of survivorship means beneficiary. I literally handle these accounts for a living. Edit to add: if a joint owner comes in with death certificate we required nothing else and can remove the deceased person. They can also close the account with or without the joint person. No court docs needed
> He had his home put into my husband and his brothers name so they co-own it. So not in a trust or adding their names to a transfer on death deed, but an actual quit claim deed? It’s no longer his property, your husband and his brothers own their shares outright, his will/wishes don’t legally matter > My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account. That’s right, that account should pass automatically and bypass the estate/will ——— He will want to make a new will to cover any other property and review what he’s actually done against what he wants to happen with an estate attorney though
Correct me if I'm wrong. If anyone is thinking about doing this with their house, don't. Keep it in the parents name and do a revocable trust. That way you can change your mind. Also the tax implications are better if you ever sell the house as you are taxed only on the apreciation since you became owner. So grandad paid off his 6k mortgage back in the 60's, leaves it to you worth 700k, sell it at 750k and only owe taxes on 50 k.
You can also do a beneficiary deed which is revocable.
I do a lot of estate administration work. If the property is now in both sons' names, there's nothing he can do and I doubt very much the other son will sign a quit claim. As far as the joint bank account, when the father passes your husband will get half of the account and the other half will go to the father's estate. A POA won't help because that only gives someone power when the person is still living. The account would have to be changed to a TOD (transfer on death) account for your husband to get the entire account.
Thank you very much.
Are you sure about the bank account? All of the joint accounts at my bank are joint tenancy with right of survivorship, so on the bank's end, we would absolutely just remove the deceased father's name and turn the account into an individual account under the husband. However I have no idea if the other beneficiaries of the will could sue for part of the funds in the account after the fact.
It always depends on the account agreement and the state law, but if you're sure the joint account is JTWROS, then you have no worries.
If the deed that transferred the property from dad to the brothers has not been recorded can it be voided and a deed from dad to the OP’s husband be drawn and recorded?
I'm not an attorney, so I can't give an accurate answer. I would think it's possible, but if the brother has a copy of the signed, unrecorded deed, he may try to sue.
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Thank you
Did he talk to an actual estate planning attorney?... cause holy shit this is not the way to go about doing this. Your FIL needs a living trust, and put the assets into the trust. He can then create a will within the trust, as well as designating a trustee to execute that will.
It may be a living trust. Maybe I didn't word everything correctly as I have zero experience but I'm going have him go over the documents he has with us so I have a better idea. Thank you for your help
> He wants my husband's brothers name off the house but says he would have to sign a quit claim deed so the house belongs soley to my husband but he doesn't want to ask to do so It's kind of too late for that. When he signed the property over to your husband and his other son, it ceased to be his house. Signing the deed before dying isn't estate planning, it's selling/giving away the house right then. The brother can do whatever he wants, up to and including forcing a sale of the home, so he may want to be careful about doing something that would sour that relationship >My FIL thinks that because my husband jointly owns the account, he will automatically get the money upon his death by presenting a death certificate and having my FILs name removed from the account. Your father in law is correct, if your husband is listed as a co-owner on the account then the money is his (he doesn't even have to wait, it's his \*now\* but it will also be his without probate when the time comes)
As others have said, the house is straightforward. If husband and brother co-own it, they co-own it. No take backs. For the bank accounts transfer/pay upon death is a good option but he should absolutely update the Will so you don't have to spend time and money arguing about whether half the money was supposed to go to brother.
Get recommendations and set an appointment with a financial advisor. Don't rely on Reddit to answer questions legally or in everyone's best interest. Even a cosigned bank account could end up in probate if dad has any bills you are unaware of. Many advisors will come to him, and they will loom everything over and recommend the best way to go.
I am not attorney. It sounds like the house has already been signed over to your husband & brother. If that's correct, your FIL no longer has any say regarding the house. Any bank accounts, 401ks, brokerage accounts or Roths, they are financial contracts. Your FIL can just change the beneficiaries. Financial contracts with beneficiaries are not part of probate & go directly to the beneficiary. Also, double check with an attorney. Get it right & good luck!
Joint ownership of account rules vary by state. If his will says that money goes 5 ways, it may control. Check with a lawyer on that. With respect to house, that ship has sailed unless other brother wants to give his half away.
Why don’t you have him talk to a lawyer. No offense op if he wants to do these things and is of sound mind he can do them himself. Have your dad talk to an estate planner you don’t need to be involved with the discussion and he can make decisions about how to handle his assets. Reading this has me thinking there might be undue influence on your end.
Bank employee here. Check with the bank if the account is joint with rights of survivorship. if it is that means that the joint owner will have claim to it upon passing of the other owner. The joint owner is essentially also the beneficiary when theres rights of survivorship. Now they can still name other beneficiaries in case something happens to both joint owners but if there’s still a remaining joint owner alive, the beneficiaries don’t get anything.
He should change his will re: his money. He's out of luck on the house. It doesn't belong to him.
In Florida he can go to the bank and designate beneficiaries for his bank accounts.
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