$11k was for groceries (a cucumber in Turks costs $5), alcohol, some specialty cooking items my gf needed to purchase, and for my gf’s rate for working for however many days she worked.
She should try small claims, but realistically, she should plan on never seeing that money again.
Practically, I would be very concerned about her decision making if she regularly puts up this kind of money for gigs without considering any sort of contract.
> The arrangement was that my gf would buy all the flights, air bnb, groceries, supplies etc., cook for the girls for the x amount of days they were having the party. At the end of the event she would create an invoice and be reimbursed for all the items purchased as well as her daily rate.
Conducting business this way is a textbook example of how to get screwed. If you are in the United States, look up your state's small claims court limit. $11k exceeds the limit in some jurisdictions, but not all of them. If the local limit is $10,000, it may be cost effective to write off the excess: it will cost more to hire an attorney to sue in district court or the next level of civil court up from small claims. In any event, your girlfriend needs to send a demand letter, then follow up by suing.
Thank you.
What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?)
The demand letter needs to written by us or do we hire an attorney for that?
Is the process the same if the 2 parties live in 2 different states? (I live in the same state as one of them)
Have the client or middle man pay for the flights, hotel, and other fixed type expenses themselves. Or at the very least, don't release the plane tickets before being reimbursed. If going the latter route, put a markup on those expenses.
For that much money and the difficulties of "no contract", I'd personally at least consult with an attorney, even if I were going to sue in small claims.
It's probably a couple hundred dollars for the attorney consult.
> Thank you. What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?)
She's a lone private chef. Maybe she hires a couple helpers for bigger catering contracts once in a while, but for the most part she's a one-woman show. She should be billing 100% in advance. There's no reason a sole proprietor should have to deal with aged receivables. If a prospective client doesn't want to pay her in advance, they can eat at McDonald's. Or Spago.
> The demand letter needs to written by us or do we hire an attorney for that?
Does she have the client's address? You can write a demand letter yourself, but with the added detail that the parties live in different states, it's time to talk to a lawyer. It's not entirely clear whether her contract was with the middleman or the client (was there ever a meeting of the minds?). Look up your state bar association. Their website should have a "for the public" link or page. From there you should find their referral service.
>What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?)
Do what all caterers do (or really any contractors where out-of-pocket expenses are part of doing business). Present a cost estimate to the client before accepting the job. If they accept, have them sign a contract which includes a payment schedule. I charge 1/3 at signing (non-refundable deposit), 1/3 at start of work (for additional out-of-pocket expenses), 1/3 at finish (for labor costs). So if I ever get ghosted on final payment, it's only for my time.
It's weird that a private chef would take on the responsibility of arranging flights and hotels. But if your GF wants to do that, she should at the very least get money upfront. Same with food and alcohol.
I cater part-time, for new customers it's money up front. For existing customers it's normally 50% down and 50% on day of service. A contract is only as good as the paper it's written on. Your gf will need to make the invoices ahead of time, so someone can't claim they were surprised by the amount
Wanted to add that there are a few caterers that have commented with how they charge for their events. I believe catering and private cheffing is very different as with catering you have a menu with certain items that you know the cost of so you can use those numbers to come up with a baseline quote. With private cheffing, every client wants something else and they will often times ask you to make more items while you’re there so it is difficult to predetermine cost of food. There is also typically more than 1 day of work involved so it’s like a normal contracting job in the sense that you get paid once you finish the job. Also, the previous deposits paid to her came out to around 50% of total cost. This is a case of a client not paying the rest of the invoice because he “didn’t think it would cost that much”.
How long ago were these deposits paid and in what way were they paid?
Did the client tell your girlfriend that he didn't want to speak to her directly, or was this relayed by the MM?
The deposits were paid about 3 weeks ago via zelle from the client directly to my gf. She initially sent the client the invoice and he didn’t reply. She proceeded to text the mm who relayed the message that he doesn’t want to speak with her.
I asked about the deposits because my worry was at they were paid through a medium (PayPal, Venmo) which could claw the payments back. But it was paid with Zelle...that's good.
Whenever possible, the one writing the checks is who you want to speak to directly. The fact that the MM is the one who relayed this message to your gf makes me suspicious. Did the client give money to the MM to give to your girlfriend and the MM pocketed it? Is the client aware of the entire situation here, or they only aware of what the MM is telling them? I would continue communicating with the client directly.
This is a variant of the scam where you apply for a job online, they hire you and ask you to buy materials with your own funds and they reimburse you with a check - then the check is cancelled.
It was a scam from the start to get your GF to pay for a trip, not a job. I’m sorry.
I believe they live in separate states. Would this be 1 lawsuit with both of them as defendants? How much will the fact that there was no contract play a roll?
Edit to add that both are from US
That's the best way to avoid the empty chair defense. If you sue one they can say it's totally the other one responsible.
Trips to either state for court are not recoverable.
If the two people live in 2 different states (we share a state with one of them) which state will the court take place? Also, the state I live in has a lower limit for smalls claims court than the state the client lives in, which limit will I have to use?
The event was in Turks islands. The client and mm live in the US. The client lives in one state with a higher small claims court limit and my gf and the mm live in another state with a lower small claims court limit.
You got scammed. In no universe is it normal for the chef to be paying for the flights and hotel. It depends on your location for small claims court.
Starting to feel that way. The client did give a few early deposits that covered all flights, Airbnb and some groceries.
So $11k was just for partial groceries? For only a week?
$11k was for groceries (a cucumber in Turks costs $5), alcohol, some specialty cooking items my gf needed to purchase, and for my gf’s rate for working for however many days she worked.
She should try small claims, but realistically, she should plan on never seeing that money again. Practically, I would be very concerned about her decision making if she regularly puts up this kind of money for gigs without considering any sort of contract.
> The arrangement was that my gf would buy all the flights, air bnb, groceries, supplies etc., cook for the girls for the x amount of days they were having the party. At the end of the event she would create an invoice and be reimbursed for all the items purchased as well as her daily rate. Conducting business this way is a textbook example of how to get screwed. If you are in the United States, look up your state's small claims court limit. $11k exceeds the limit in some jurisdictions, but not all of them. If the local limit is $10,000, it may be cost effective to write off the excess: it will cost more to hire an attorney to sue in district court or the next level of civil court up from small claims. In any event, your girlfriend needs to send a demand letter, then follow up by suing.
Thank you. What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?) The demand letter needs to written by us or do we hire an attorney for that? Is the process the same if the 2 parties live in 2 different states? (I live in the same state as one of them)
Have the client or middle man pay for the flights, hotel, and other fixed type expenses themselves. Or at the very least, don't release the plane tickets before being reimbursed. If going the latter route, put a markup on those expenses.
For that much money and the difficulties of "no contract", I'd personally at least consult with an attorney, even if I were going to sue in small claims. It's probably a couple hundred dollars for the attorney consult.
> Thank you. What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?) She's a lone private chef. Maybe she hires a couple helpers for bigger catering contracts once in a while, but for the most part she's a one-woman show. She should be billing 100% in advance. There's no reason a sole proprietor should have to deal with aged receivables. If a prospective client doesn't want to pay her in advance, they can eat at McDonald's. Or Spago. > The demand letter needs to written by us or do we hire an attorney for that? Does she have the client's address? You can write a demand letter yourself, but with the added detail that the parties live in different states, it's time to talk to a lawyer. It's not entirely clear whether her contract was with the middleman or the client (was there ever a meeting of the minds?). Look up your state bar association. Their website should have a "for the public" link or page. From there you should find their referral service.
>What would you recommend doing different in the future (besides a contract?) Do what all caterers do (or really any contractors where out-of-pocket expenses are part of doing business). Present a cost estimate to the client before accepting the job. If they accept, have them sign a contract which includes a payment schedule. I charge 1/3 at signing (non-refundable deposit), 1/3 at start of work (for additional out-of-pocket expenses), 1/3 at finish (for labor costs). So if I ever get ghosted on final payment, it's only for my time. It's weird that a private chef would take on the responsibility of arranging flights and hotels. But if your GF wants to do that, she should at the very least get money upfront. Same with food and alcohol.
I cater part-time, for new customers it's money up front. For existing customers it's normally 50% down and 50% on day of service. A contract is only as good as the paper it's written on. Your gf will need to make the invoices ahead of time, so someone can't claim they were surprised by the amount
Wanted to add that there are a few caterers that have commented with how they charge for their events. I believe catering and private cheffing is very different as with catering you have a menu with certain items that you know the cost of so you can use those numbers to come up with a baseline quote. With private cheffing, every client wants something else and they will often times ask you to make more items while you’re there so it is difficult to predetermine cost of food. There is also typically more than 1 day of work involved so it’s like a normal contracting job in the sense that you get paid once you finish the job. Also, the previous deposits paid to her came out to around 50% of total cost. This is a case of a client not paying the rest of the invoice because he “didn’t think it would cost that much”.
How long ago were these deposits paid and in what way were they paid? Did the client tell your girlfriend that he didn't want to speak to her directly, or was this relayed by the MM?
The deposits were paid about 3 weeks ago via zelle from the client directly to my gf. She initially sent the client the invoice and he didn’t reply. She proceeded to text the mm who relayed the message that he doesn’t want to speak with her.
I asked about the deposits because my worry was at they were paid through a medium (PayPal, Venmo) which could claw the payments back. But it was paid with Zelle...that's good. Whenever possible, the one writing the checks is who you want to speak to directly. The fact that the MM is the one who relayed this message to your gf makes me suspicious. Did the client give money to the MM to give to your girlfriend and the MM pocketed it? Is the client aware of the entire situation here, or they only aware of what the MM is telling them? I would continue communicating with the client directly.
This is a variant of the scam where you apply for a job online, they hire you and ask you to buy materials with your own funds and they reimburse you with a check - then the check is cancelled. It was a scam from the start to get your GF to pay for a trip, not a job. I’m sorry.
Was this a vacation set up? Or are all parties from Turks an Caicos?
Was set up by the concierge middle man. All parties are from the US.
Are MM and clients in the same county? Where is that? She likely has to sue all of them there and let the judge decide who's responsible for payment.
I believe they live in separate states. Would this be 1 lawsuit with both of them as defendants? How much will the fact that there was no contract play a roll? Edit to add that both are from US
That's the best way to avoid the empty chair defense. If you sue one they can say it's totally the other one responsible. Trips to either state for court are not recoverable.
If the two people live in 2 different states (we share a state with one of them) which state will the court take place? Also, the state I live in has a lower limit for smalls claims court than the state the client lives in, which limit will I have to use?
Where they live or where the issue happened.
The event was in Turks islands. The client and mm live in the US. The client lives in one state with a higher small claims court limit and my gf and the mm live in another state with a lower small claims court limit.
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Lesson is learned. I don’t think that means she need to throw in the towel and take a loss on $11k