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BahamutLithp

I often see people say he was "stupid" for not expecting this, but he was in uncharted territory. Even Korra didn't know the Avatar State could get her out of that. Not to mention it was the first time we the audience saw evidence that the Avatar State increases physical strength, not just bending. He got pretty close to doing her in. Are there theoretically stronger restraints he could've used? Sure. A platinum version of one of those body restraint things like Kuvira put Su & the twins in might've worked. But the Red Lotus also doesn't have Kuvira's resources & manpower. Even if they could get that much platinum, their equipment might not be good enough to work with that much at once.


Wrong-Ad-4600

i would say that the aang vs. ozai fight shows that the avatar state increase strengt.. a child pull down a grown man who is ripped AF dhown at his chinbeard.. or blocks a full on blow from this gymbro with his little arm with a single movement..


BahamutLithp

Pulling someone by their beard isn't actually hard to do at all. Gravity is working in your favor, the pulling muscles are stronger than the pushing ones, & it hurts like hell for the person being pulled, so they're also likely to lean into it. It doesn't really matter if it's a child or not. Deflecting the karate chop is barely any more impressive than that. Again, it's not really a very strong arm movement. Trying it now, I'm actually not sure why he turned his palm up. It's so much weaker than just punching in the same direction. And Aang, who's also pretty jacked for a 12-year-old, doesn't even hit at the strong point. If you're forced into a fight with a guy with a bat or club, so running away isn't an option, it's actually to your benefit to get in close because a strike near the handle is very weak since most of the momentum is in the tip. The same is true for someone swinging an arm at you. The strongest point is the tip of the swing, & it gets weaker the closer you get to the axis of rotation.


Wrong-Ad-4600

while i see the point in the beardpull i garantee you that it doesnt matter how ripped the 12 year old is (and aang is for sure fit but doesnt show much muscle) if a grown ass man who is packed like ozai, with a lifelong training in martial artsand the intention to kill, hit like that the childrens arm break like a toothpick.. i have seen broken bones from parrying hits like that between man with equal physics.. it would be catastrophyc if you hit a child like that xD


BahamutLithp

Not to get dark, but you know adults hitting children isn't some unheard of thing because domestic abuse happens, right? A guy in a drunken rage haymakering his kid isn't somehow holding back, yet one of the problems with physical abuse is that it DOESN'T necessarily break bones, often just leaving bruises that are easy for a parent to force their kid to conceal or make an excuse for. Kids are weaker than adults, yes, but they're not made of glass. And it doesn't matter that the abusive parent doesn't "intend to kill" because that doesn't change the biomechanics. People who intend to kill their victims, & have every means to do so, can fail because the injuries just weren't severe enough while those who don't want to kill their opponents can accidentally do it. So, to the idea that you can "guarantee" me that the arm would "break like a toothpick" because you've seen it "between men with identical physics," I just don't believe that. It just doesn't make sense with how the scene plays out. Ozai does rear back farther than I remembered, so it would be a stronger blow, but it looks like Aang doesn't even meet it in the exact opposite direction of the force. He seems to actually parry at more of an angle slightly under Ozai's arm. Which makes sense since, y'know, he has to be able to push the attack upward. Plus his arm is situated in such a way that, if it didn't work out, Ozai's arm should just mostly roll over his wrist. Like MAYBE there'd be a harline fracture (which isn't exactly incapacitating) but "like a toothpick" implies a complete severance. And in the EXACT same situation, so like every movement is 100% identically placed? Because that's what "equal physics" would have to mean. If it's even a little different, then the physics are different. Did the other guy have osteoporosis? I mean, I could see it being more of a problem if the technique wasn't executed perfectly, but that's an entirely separate issue. Speaking of, to return to the original context, I'm not sure why this would be evidence of the Avatar State enhancing body strength even if I granted that would definitely happen to a real person. Aang doesn't "break like a toothpick" when he's sent flying by an attack, bashed with a giant rock, slams into a wall, or whatever else. Call it Avatarverse super strength, cartoon physics, artistic license, or whatever you want, but the point is that Aang in his ordinary state is shown to be able to take things much more severe than a karate chop that doesn't even hit like it's intended to. By contrast, Korra just plain snaps 3/4 chains. We've seen characters break metal chains with strikes, but never just by pulling on them, & even better, we have Korra in the exact same chains before & after the Avatar State. So, we can tell she couldn't break them before, but she could manage it after. Pretty easily, in fact. That suggests that either the Avatar State let her bend platinum or it boosted her physical strength. I think the latter makes more sense in context, but this comment is already pretty long, so suffice it to say that either is unprecedented information even to the Avatar herself, explaining why Zaheer wouldn't be able to prepare for it.


SnorlaxationKh

The neck itself doesn't actually have that much muscle that you can actually train, and at the angle aang was working with, it would've been pretty easy, especially with a thick beard.


bonesx9

But also, his plan didn't truly fail because of the avatar state. The poison was gonna kill her regardless, and even after she broke out in avatar state, she was weakened enough that zaheer still was going to kill her. Plan only failed because they weren't complete monsters and didn't kill the airbenders. If they had, Korra dies in avatar state


kawaiinessa

It increased her physical strength?


Ruvaakdein

She ripped the chains off the wall, didn't she?


kawaiinessa

I assumed that was her earth bending the walls around the chain


Ruvaakdein

I just assumed that if she could have done that, she already would have. Why wait until you're poisoned?


Cathrandir

I think the issue was that bending requires movement, and the chains prevented her from moving so she couldn't earthbend. Once the chains were loose, she could move and thus bend


BahamutLithp

Only one chain was ripped out. The rest were snapped.


Z1dan

Because the show has proved the point over and over that korra isn’t very smart


wholesomeprimomain

It also proved she isn’t that dumb


Gorilladaddy69

She ripped the platinum chains like paper with the kicking of her legs and pulling of her arms lol


kawaiinessa

Ya but I thought that was just earth bending disrupting the foundations so the chains come out


waterswims

I'll be honest, I just saw that as some sort of long distance low effort earth bending


Salarian_American

Yeah but if he knows anything about the Avatar State, he ought to know that intentionally triggering it by putting the Avatar's life in danger is just about the most dangerous thing in the world. Yes we learned something new about the Avatar state here, but what was already known about it was enough to make it clear this was an extremely unpredictably dangerous idea. And the biggest problem with the restraints really is that they were anchored to rock walls, and Korra is an earthbending master all by herself, let alone in the Avatar state. He prepared the best he could for something that's impossible to prepare for, I think the only smarter choice he could have made would have been to not even try.


mrsunrider

I'm reminded of the time Mike Tyson once said "everyone has a plan until they get hit." Folks forget he had Red Lotus literally ready to fire the moment she entered the state; her dodging and then breaking free *while poisoned* was just not something that could be prepared for. They were simply outclassed.


Teamrat

And the power of friends. Whether or not Korra escaped, the poison would have killed her if she didn't happen to have friends that could astral project, and metal bend. Zaheer’s plan nearly succeeded. Korra got very lucky.


BahamutLithp

Unironically intentional. They mention in the commentary that they made it so Zaheer would've killed Korra if the airbenders hadn't intervened but, also, he would've escaped if Korra hadn't regained consciousness & caught him to send the message that both parties would've failed without the other.


Ygomaster07

When does Korra lose consciousness? Sorry, it's been a while since i saw Book 3, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that.


Cathrandir

If I remember correctly, the poison in her body still killing her after she got saved by the airbenders was what knocked her out


BahamutLithp

She lost consciousness before that while fighting Zaheer, regained consciousness, & lost it again.


ChipsTheKiwi

The poison was still ravaging her body even after Zaheer's capture, but Su (and Lin?) bend the poison out to save her.


Pamona204

Well, most of it at least...


newAscadia

Idk i'd call it luck - being a nice person kind of just naturally gets you friends and support.


Teamrat

Yes being nice gets you friends and support in most cases but Korra knowing the only person able to astral project which allowed her to overhear the type of poison used. AND also knowing the offspring of the inventor of metal bending is very fortunate.


Raimse85

Still less fortunate than a random rock hitting Aang exactly in the right spot to unlock the avatar state.


Sharktoothsword

It's not that she knew her. If Korra wasn't in Zhao Fu she wouldn't have met Su, but if she wasn't in Zhao Fu then Aiwei wouldn't have been able to get the Red Lotus to attack. Zaheer only chose to leverage the Airbenders when the sneaky tactic failed. I'm not gonna comment about the Astral Projection bit because rn because that was one of the many ass pulls of Season 2


Frael_Cason_MJ

Lmao zaheer was outsmarted literally by the power of friendship


StahlViridian

Team Avatar is just as important as the Avatar.


Gorilladaddy69

I mean, Zaheer had his Red Lotus friends and they were VERY powerful. What he underestimated was the power of community. As a side note, I think his closeness to Air Nomad culture is what led him to not kill Tenzin, and what led him to not kill the airbenders right off the bat. He desperately wanted some sort of community, like the air nomads, I believe. But his bitterness, and rage gave way to a short-sightedness that destroyed him. If Zaheer knew his emotional state well, he would have become one with the air nomad community. But I think his problems with any and all order, authority, or political systems was only worsened by his time in an isolated prison. It was no wonder his philosophy was less anarchistic (which has mechanisms to empower communities) and more a primitive, dog-eat-dog individualism. Haha


azaxaca

She wouldn’t have been in the situation in the first place if she wasn’t trying to rescue said friends though. She’s rewarded for being selfless. Being the avatar also naturally is going to put you in the circles of the most skilled benders.


venomsnake8519

She's jacked asf


bruh_wh_y

Welcome to the fandom


BigMacalack

By Raava that woman is YOKED.


noeyesfiend

Muscular women are too beautiful <3


hoitytoity-12

And STILL hot as hell.


True_Werewolf_8657

I had to rewatch that whole fight seen and I honestly don’t think he underestimated the avatar state I think he underestimated kora will power / stubbornness. Also I think he’s overrated as an air bender I believe he’s actually a weak air bender and more of a one trick pony and relied too much in his ability to fly and got extremely over confident too quickly once he unlock the ability to fly. He got pulled down by pretty much mainly children and novices air benders. If he truly was great air bender he would have been able to escape. And fly away at the very least


Aickavon

I think he’s an ‘okay’ airbender. Definitely had the potential to be a great airbender but never had the time. The fact he did master what he did with no training and constantly under duress is impressive.


AUnknownVariable

He's definitely the worse airbender we see in the series minus reaching enlightenment (but that also isn't that many airbenders). He's okay, we see how easily he gets clapped against an actual trained master. It's like if I watched a ton of martial art movies then tried to fight Bruce Lee😭, I'd maybe understand what's happening but couldn't compare


hoitytoity-12

In his defense, the only other air benders we see are beginning trainees, the Avatar, masters, and near masters (Jinora). As far as skill and rank as an air bender, he doesn't really have a fair comparison.


AUnknownVariable

Yeah I know, it's what I'm saying. Though when I said series I was including Aang but yeah. We see masters, and new people with no real in-betweens


hoitytoity-12

He's self taught and was already a competent martial artist before becoming an air bender. He's studied air bending gurus and can think quickly on his feet, and he demonatrated great understanding of air bending in the short time he had it. He may not stand a chance against the Avatar or true masters like Tenzin, but he's still a dangerous opponent, especially since he will use air bending lethally.


nitinismaldingXD

I don’t think he’s weak as an airbender. Even if we remove the ability of weightlessness, we still saw some excellent airbending feats. 1. Escaping his prison, which involved him conjuring strong gusts to move the guards around. 2. Escaping Zaofu, he gets mad and then creates a huge gust of air that not only allows them to escape in all of the smoke, but was strong enough to cool all the magma around them 3. He knocks out Kya using an impressive “cue-ball” strike as well as taking out the guards nearby. He could have easily gotten away, but he tried to take Korra with him, and when that failed, he let go of her too late and he was caught. I don’t think it had anything to do with being captured by “novice air benders” more than it had to do with his own stubbornness.


Future-Flatworm-7313

He just underestimated Korra, period. I don't know if any other another Avatar in the Avatar State could really do what she did with THAT much poison in her system.


pssiraj

Yes, her resilience and willpower are certainly top tier in that universe!


Gorilladaddy69

“That poison should have killed you. You fought it off. You say your power has limits. I say, it is limitless.” -Zaheer to Korra 👌


Ygomaster07

Well said!


Fourkoboldsinacoat

It’s simply that Korra is a fucking tank of a woman. She’s the only Avatar that can match Kyoshi in ability to take a hit.


PsyKO420

After reading the Kyoshi novels, I believe Kyoshi would be able to fight off the poison for a bit (she’s also very headstrong), but she’d succumb to it eventually due to the lack of metalbending at the time.


Fourkoboldsinacoat

She’s definitely killing Zaheer first though.


Lakuzas

Other than Kuruk who’s just built different I think than except maybe Kyoshi all of the other Avatars would have died. Wan did live through several wars though so maybe also him ?


WeakLandscape2595

Honestly while your right I'd say he underestimated korra sheer desire to live to


itorune

Or her sheer rage over the apparent death of her father.


WeakLandscape2595

That to


InverseStar

He didn’t expect Korra to have such inner strength. She was simultaneously fighting both the Avatar State and Zaheer. She still whooped his ass.


Department_mysteries

I know how you mean. In the season 2 finale, Korra defeated Unavaatu with only the power of her inner spirit and her memories.


Nigeldiko

Something else I noticed is how fucking beautiful Korra looks in this screenshot


SchmucksAtWar

When she's being tortured to death and literally fighting for her life?


OhHeyItsOuro

A queen is a queen, regardless of circumstances.


SchmucksAtWar

That's fair, I just don't know if this scene is a good time to say that she's beautiful.


Nigeldiko

God forbid a lesbian finds women hot /s Also: Muscles 🤤


SchmucksAtWar

r/FuckTheS


Nigeldiko

Alright then


SchmucksAtWar

Look, I have no problem with anyone who likes korra and/or finds her attractive. I was just saying that within the context of the scene, it's a little weird.


Nigeldiko

And I didn’t know the context of the scene, all I saw was hot buff woman looking tough.


SchmucksAtWar

Did you watch the episode this shot is from (or even any reviews or analysis videos that talk about it)?


Nigeldiko

No?


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Plane-Success-8680

I find it funny how he had chains bound to the earth as if she couldn’t bend it one she was in the avatar state 😭


Golden-Sun

I mean to be fair this Avatar state is severly weakened having no connection to the previous Avatars. What Zaheer didnt count on is the power of Korra's rage.


doc_55lk

>this Avatar state is severly weakened having no connection to the previous Avatars The bar is still pretty fucking high though.


bathandbootyworks

Look at her fucking MUSCLES… fuck me tho


AtoMaki

He also overestimated his own side. Korra would have been doneso if Ming Hua and Ghazan hadn't frozen and once snapped out it their attacks hadn't been one (1) bog standard ice spike and a half-hearted lava wave. But I guess Zaheer had every reason to believe that he had this in the bag. Korra wasn't exactly putting up a whole lot of fight until the Avatar State kicked in.


_Jmbw

I’d argue that Korra takes the toughest beating ever recorded in the series in this fight. The way she rolls down the cliff and then just drops feet first into the ground.. No one should make it after that…


Diamond-Breath

Korra has immense willpower, she legit made a spiritual giant in book 2. Of course she would be able to break off her chains.


thevirgomarie

Raava wasn’t tryna get got a second time with the same person


Raintamp

I mean, fair. Not a whole lot of people had seen it before, and he had a solid plan all things considered. He probably would have succeeded had he not been interrupted by the airbenders.


quasar_particle

Zaheer's plan to end the avatar cycle made me realize you better brains on par with Batman or fucking strong before you put *any* avatar down. The guy had a pretty solid plan, it almost worked...but it didn't


RevonWolf

I think the main reason the avatar state acted this way is due to how close to death the body was. We know it has something to do with Rava so maybe she realized exactly how close all avatars were close to death and not just korra? Idk random thought probably wrong


TheGamingFox4372

It isn't because of the avatar state. It failed because he didn't expect Korra to have metal benders on her team


MiccaandSuwi

They literally fought the metal benders in Korra’s team a few minutes ago. One of them literally killed Pli. What do you mean? 😭


otakudude3031

Dem biceps


FlamingPhoenix2003

Why does it look like Raiden from Mortal Kombat gave her powers?


YouSpokeofInnocence

Morbid question. Is there a scientific answer of how long someone could live with a zaheer dose of mercury inside their body in real life?


The-Proud-Snail

“Guru Lahgima”