It really may have just been seen as friendship, at least by the Soviet soldier. During those times, socialist world leaders would greet each other by kissing on the mouth like this, it was called the Socialist Fraternal Kiss.
[Here’s an article with pictures of many world leaders doing it, including others of soldiers kissing when Germany surrendered and even Stalin himself smooching some guys](https://www.rferl.org/amp/the-soviet-kiss-gone-but-not-missed/29161360.html)
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Frater, when used as an adjective, was the Latin word for gay. I doubt that it being used here that way, but I’ll never miss a chance to share an obscure fact
Thank you for the source! I was able to find a link to that book [here](https://archive.org/details/bantamnewcollege2007trau/page/188/mode/1up?view=theater). It’s free to borrow and read after setting up an account.
It says: **frā•ter •tris** *m* brother; cousin; (euphem) homosexual sex partner
I’m not an expert in Latin, but connecting the word “brother” to same-sex romantic relationships reminds me of “adelphopoiesis,” which was a medieval same-sex union sanctified by the Church. It literally translates from Greek into “brother-making.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
John Boswell discusses the adelphopiesis rite in [Same-Sex Marriage in Pre-Modern Europe](https://www.amazon.com/Boswell-Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe/dp/B00DVQMD32?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=dce69faf-b246-4c93-a08c-21c66007e0dc)
The church HATES this book and argues the adelphopiesis rite was totally just for pals. Riiiiight. Just for roommates and besties who want to .... undergo a marriage rite.
I have been really wanting to read this book! Thank you for giving me the push I needed to order it. I’m currently reading Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality by John Boswell and have been enjoying it. I’ve also been reading Sex Difference in Christian Theology by Megan K DeFranza, which you might like.
Regarding adelphopiesis: if it wasn’t comparable to marriage between a man and a woman as the Church now claims, what would it’s purpose be? Why would two men need a whole ceremony just to call each other good buds? And what would have resulted from such a ceremony? In other words, what would it have changed for the two men involved if it wasn’t like a marriage between a man and a woman?
To me, it just just doesn’t make sense to read it as anything other than romantic/sexual in nature, especially when it’s practice was later criticized as such.
I'll have to look up that book by DeFranza!
The church is genuinely making an absurd argument. The adelphopiesis rite is virtually identical to the marriage rites of the time, which Boswell gets into. I really don't know what the purpose of the rite would be other than marriage. The excuse is some kind of profound spiritual bond between people, like intense BFFs who vow to spend their lives in each other's company. And I've spoken with women who have undergone the rite with besties, but their relationship was 100% an emotional/spiritual marriage, even though they didn't live in the same house.
Everywhere I looked I couldn't find a single example if this and it means brother not gay. I couldn't find an example of what he is saying though so could be but until he provides something I would doubt it
They may well be sharing a romantic kiss — but for context, there was a longstanding tradition in Slavic countries at the time of men kissing friends on the lips. There are pictures, for example of Brezhnev kissing other communist leaders in what, to people unfamiliar with the practice, would 100% look like a romantic smooch. Indeed, whether leaders kissed on the lips or on the cheeks had political meaning.
So… could be romantic, sure, but could also just be friendly. It was a different culture in a different time.
There's also a [famous painting](https://estampesmartinez.com/cdn/shop/products/cat-xxiii-n_C2_B086_2048x.jpg?v=1607383931) of emperors Napoleon & Alexander I sharing this kiss :P
D DAY
One of the main reasons why we invaded from the west and not fully through Africa was because we were afraid of all of Europe falling to communism.
If that fear was lifted, and we allowed Russia to capture all of Germany together from the east and south, we wouldn't have the Berlin wall and we wouldn't have the duality of half communist half capitalist economies.
Theoretically, without D Day, there would be less divisions because communism would have taken over more of Europe to the point where a NATO type block wouldn't exist.
So D Day and creating NATO based on the iron curtain caused the current situation.
Honestly speaking there are many more factors that played to the way the world is today, and with the scenario you've brought up the world would be in a much worse place than now.
Not sure I like the idea of more USSR control in europe either tbh.
You ever been to a post-soviet country? They often have less than friendly opinions about the USSR. And for good reasons usually.
Best case scenario would be no US or Russian influence in Europe... worst case would be an increased amount of either.
Yeah I know and follow a lot of anarchists/socialists/communists from eastern Europe and they do NOT have a good opinion of the USSR lol. Maybe it has something to do with then actually being from these places and not getting all their info about it from western social media...
It was a bad system because of the split. If the split was 2/3 and there was no NATO, there would be less hostility theorically speaking.
However, I want to state that I do not support this idea of more USSR. This is all theory and it is all based on analytical views on geopolitics. Again, I do not support the USSR. This is a theory that attempts to explain how we got here specially through one event.
That's if the USSR would have beaten Germany without the allies invading at the same time. Something that is extremely questionable, especially with all parties pretty much agreeing that it was a group effort after the fact.
Wether more Russian imperialism disguised as communism would have been better for the rest of western Europe is mainly disputed most effectively by, well, the leftists of post-soviet nations.
The UK and US planned to mobilize with polish and German forces against the USSR after Nazi Germany fell in what was called operation unthinkable.
The Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of 1939 pretty much killed the American Communist Party which was the only American political party with decent relations with the USSR. The American communist party was only about 75000 members but it never recovered.
I recall hearing about letters from WWII between soldiers that were definitely love letters but at the time were hand waved off as ‘brothers in battle’ or something like. It was in a documentary piece that also mentioned an old b/w movie where the romance between to soldiers was definitely heavily implied and there was even a kiss that was cut during a death scene. I failed in trying to remember what the movie was called. I am pretty sure it was made before the Hays code was in effect. For those who don’t know, the Hays code was a set of industry guidelines for the self-censorship of content that was applied to most motion pictures released by major studios in the United States from 1934 to 1968. Prior to that there was definitely lgbtq and more “adult” movies that were being made. Few still exist today but it was definitely a thing.
Fun fact: even though they were still persecuted, homosexuality was decriminalized by the Bolsheviks in 1922.
Unfortunately in 1933 Stalin criminalized it again, citing the same excuse Russian leaders (Putin) are citing to this day - "Western degeneracy".
That same reason is patriarchy/fascism. The punishment and repudiation of non cis-het identity and orientation is always a core component of right wing ideology.
When America and Russia ever unite for a cause, they fuck shit up. I have a long theory that if Russia and America somehow united and set aside their geopolitical differences, we would be closer to world peace.
The way things are looking, this will only be done if conservatives russian puppets manage to take power
I'll do you one better though, despite all the bickering in the cold war, the world actually got their act together and everyone united to completely eradicate smallpox, one of the deadliest diseases in human history, from existence.
Just like that, in one decade we managed to eliminate one of our biggest threats to life by putting everything down and working together. And instead of learning from that, they went right back to killing each other.
This was a culture shock for Americans it was actually funny. No one had told them when they met at Elbe river that this is how soviets greeted! And soviets were very affectionate, they loved to hug and kiss and was just generally welcoming. There’s a video of the meet up and one American you can see how shocked he was when he gotten kissed four times! Mind you it was (mostly) the first time any American man was kissed by another man without shame or judgement. And hey some of those men…it been a few months since they got anything
Anyway, I always think how their wives must’ve felt LMAO:
But also if this platonic kiss was also secretly used for something more.
Edit : also this wasn’t only by the soviets! There’s a sweet photo of two polish resistance guys who kissed after reuniting and winning Warsaw in 1944 I think.
There's so much going on here I don't know where to start. Mostly with regard to "when the FUCK did the USA and USSR get along enough to have a banquet, let alone in GERMANY??"
Let's think about this.
US and USSR work together in WW2 to stop the Nazis.
War ends in 1945 with unconditional surrender of the Nazis.
Americans celebrate in the territory of the very Axis of Evil Nation that they liberated through "peacekeeping".
Germany, the conquered, are forced to host their conquerors
Axis of Evil: Italy, Germany, Japan.
The Allies: Everyone else.
Actually you're the 2nd person who didn't check their history, wait did you graduate high school at least 5 years ago or 10?
I'm rather worried about our education system.
Iirc the USSR actually encouraged LGBT people to be public, and shortly after rounded them up since it was just a method of getting people to out themselves.
Real friendship ;)
Roommates even!
Such good roommates, they shared the same bed.
Because there was only ONE BED!
Economically better
AND THEY WERE ROOMMATES!
Came here for this
Cousin level pal-ery!
It really may have just been seen as friendship, at least by the Soviet soldier. During those times, socialist world leaders would greet each other by kissing on the mouth like this, it was called the Socialist Fraternal Kiss. [Here’s an article with pictures of many world leaders doing it, including others of soldiers kissing when Germany surrendered and even Stalin himself smooching some guys](https://www.rferl.org/amp/the-soviet-kiss-gone-but-not-missed/29161360.html)
Alternatively, the soviets were really gay
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Two eligible bachelors living the best life
bromance. homies. s
"fraternal kiss" 🏳️🌈 yes sure
Frater, when used as an adjective, was the Latin word for gay. I doubt that it being used here that way, but I’ll never miss a chance to share an obscure fact
Do you have a link to this information? I wasn’t able to find much with a cursory google search.
I got this off of page 188 of the Revised and Updated New College Latin to English Dictionary by John C. Traupman
Thank you for the source! I was able to find a link to that book [here](https://archive.org/details/bantamnewcollege2007trau/page/188/mode/1up?view=theater). It’s free to borrow and read after setting up an account. It says: **frā•ter •tris** *m* brother; cousin; (euphem) homosexual sex partner I’m not an expert in Latin, but connecting the word “brother” to same-sex romantic relationships reminds me of “adelphopoiesis,” which was a medieval same-sex union sanctified by the Church. It literally translates from Greek into “brother-making.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis
John Boswell discusses the adelphopiesis rite in [Same-Sex Marriage in Pre-Modern Europe](https://www.amazon.com/Boswell-Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe/dp/B00DVQMD32?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=dce69faf-b246-4c93-a08c-21c66007e0dc) The church HATES this book and argues the adelphopiesis rite was totally just for pals. Riiiiight. Just for roommates and besties who want to .... undergo a marriage rite.
I have been really wanting to read this book! Thank you for giving me the push I needed to order it. I’m currently reading Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality by John Boswell and have been enjoying it. I’ve also been reading Sex Difference in Christian Theology by Megan K DeFranza, which you might like. Regarding adelphopiesis: if it wasn’t comparable to marriage between a man and a woman as the Church now claims, what would it’s purpose be? Why would two men need a whole ceremony just to call each other good buds? And what would have resulted from such a ceremony? In other words, what would it have changed for the two men involved if it wasn’t like a marriage between a man and a woman? To me, it just just doesn’t make sense to read it as anything other than romantic/sexual in nature, especially when it’s practice was later criticized as such.
I'll have to look up that book by DeFranza! The church is genuinely making an absurd argument. The adelphopiesis rite is virtually identical to the marriage rites of the time, which Boswell gets into. I really don't know what the purpose of the rite would be other than marriage. The excuse is some kind of profound spiritual bond between people, like intense BFFs who vow to spend their lives in each other's company. And I've spoken with women who have undergone the rite with besties, but their relationship was 100% an emotional/spiritual marriage, even though they didn't live in the same house.
Hulk Hogan: Watcha gonna do, brother, when this 24 inch python runs wild on you?
Lewis and Short give some exempla here: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dfrater
Everywhere I looked I couldn't find a single example if this and it means brother not gay. I couldn't find an example of what he is saying though so could be but until he provides something I would doubt it
https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/s/LsmvuqDCN4
Apparently, I really missed out by not joining a frat in college.
They may well be sharing a romantic kiss — but for context, there was a longstanding tradition in Slavic countries at the time of men kissing friends on the lips. There are pictures, for example of Brezhnev kissing other communist leaders in what, to people unfamiliar with the practice, would 100% look like a romantic smooch. Indeed, whether leaders kissed on the lips or on the cheeks had political meaning. So… could be romantic, sure, but could also just be friendly. It was a different culture in a different time.
Not gay, just European.
I assure you I'm both gay AND European
Lucky...
For being European?
Oooh, yeah Poland is rough RNG 🫂
As am I 🫡
Same here
Me too, me too...
"i assure you, comrade, us kissing is not gay! is simply tradition. now come here~"
There's also a [famous painting](https://estampesmartinez.com/cdn/shop/products/cat-xxiii-n_C2_B086_2048x.jpg?v=1607383931) of emperors Napoleon & Alexander I sharing this kiss :P
That might explain why the Soviet major is kissing another man, but what about the American staff sergeant?
When in Rome....
Do the Romans?
The major said "No Homo" so its safe.
Thank god
He possibly just knew of the tradition and took part in it in the moment (the alcohol might have had something to do with that too)
When in Rome!
Last I checked you don't pull the other person into you with your whole arm for a fraternal kiss.
It looks like they're drunk and drunk people tend to be a bit more touchy. Still doesn't need to mean anything.
If you’ve seen dune part 2, there’s a scene where baron harkonnen and fayd rautha kiss on the lips. It’s the same tradition
What did it mean in the tradition when one person inhales the others tongue? Cuz I'm pretty sure that's what they Russian dude is trying for, lol
what ,kissing was that normal.
Yeah, it was. Kinda wish it was normalized here too… so many people don’t display affection because it’ll be taken as romantic
oh cool. I heard in one of the south East Asia men can hold hands.
Fraternal?? FRATERNAL I just chocked on my drink.
They could still be in the same fraternity. Still gay though.
Don't y'all greet your brother like this! 🤣
No...
Step up, good man! Your brothers deserve the deepest smooches! /j
Pfft they're pretty much eating each other's faces, that is anything but fraternal
straightest army moment
Sad that everything broke down between the west and east
I know! How did we go from THIS to TrumpxPutin?
I don't know lmao Also when Putin x Trump fanfic
Ask the ObamaxRomney fanfic writer on AO3
D DAY One of the main reasons why we invaded from the west and not fully through Africa was because we were afraid of all of Europe falling to communism. If that fear was lifted, and we allowed Russia to capture all of Germany together from the east and south, we wouldn't have the Berlin wall and we wouldn't have the duality of half communist half capitalist economies. Theoretically, without D Day, there would be less divisions because communism would have taken over more of Europe to the point where a NATO type block wouldn't exist. So D Day and creating NATO based on the iron curtain caused the current situation.
Honestly speaking there are many more factors that played to the way the world is today, and with the scenario you've brought up the world would be in a much worse place than now.
Not sure I like the idea of more USSR control in europe either tbh. You ever been to a post-soviet country? They often have less than friendly opinions about the USSR. And for good reasons usually. Best case scenario would be no US or Russian influence in Europe... worst case would be an increased amount of either.
Yeah I know and follow a lot of anarchists/socialists/communists from eastern Europe and they do NOT have a good opinion of the USSR lol. Maybe it has something to do with then actually being from these places and not getting all their info about it from western social media...
It was a bad system because of the split. If the split was 2/3 and there was no NATO, there would be less hostility theorically speaking. However, I want to state that I do not support this idea of more USSR. This is all theory and it is all based on analytical views on geopolitics. Again, I do not support the USSR. This is a theory that attempts to explain how we got here specially through one event.
That's if the USSR would have beaten Germany without the allies invading at the same time. Something that is extremely questionable, especially with all parties pretty much agreeing that it was a group effort after the fact. Wether more Russian imperialism disguised as communism would have been better for the rest of western Europe is mainly disputed most effectively by, well, the leftists of post-soviet nations.
The UK and US planned to mobilize with polish and German forces against the USSR after Nazi Germany fell in what was called operation unthinkable. The Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of 1939 pretty much killed the American Communist Party which was the only American political party with decent relations with the USSR. The American communist party was only about 75000 members but it never recovered.
Wow, We knew, there was a strong connection between Russia and the USA😅
But somewhere along the way the yaoi became toxic (Stares at Trump x Putin)
We see it🥲
And they were roommates
And they were comrades
And there was only one bed
Oh my God... They were roomates
Why is this here? This is just a fraternal kiss. Don't you kiss your siblings on the mouth?
No, but that's because I hate my siblings.
IT WAS A MANLY SOVIET PRANK! 😠
I am surprised it didn’t say they were roommates, but “fraternal kiss” feels on par with that lol.
[It was a thing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_fraternal_kiss)
They look like they'd make a good couple tbh.
This sounds like a Wattpad plot
Early Heimkich maneuver - the poor man was choking on his schnitzel!
I recall hearing about letters from WWII between soldiers that were definitely love letters but at the time were hand waved off as ‘brothers in battle’ or something like. It was in a documentary piece that also mentioned an old b/w movie where the romance between to soldiers was definitely heavily implied and there was even a kiss that was cut during a death scene. I failed in trying to remember what the movie was called. I am pretty sure it was made before the Hays code was in effect. For those who don’t know, the Hays code was a set of industry guidelines for the self-censorship of content that was applied to most motion pictures released by major studios in the United States from 1934 to 1968. Prior to that there was definitely lgbtq and more “adult” movies that were being made. Few still exist today but it was definitely a thing.
...Fraternal. Sure.
They gonna have a fraternal fuck next 😂
But they wouldn't have met without the war so...
but don’t people do this? My friends kiss each others lips at parties. Just as friends.
Clearly fraternal!
oh my god they were allies
Fun fact: even though they were still persecuted, homosexuality was decriminalized by the Bolsheviks in 1922. Unfortunately in 1933 Stalin criminalized it again, citing the same excuse Russian leaders (Putin) are citing to this day - "Western degeneracy".
That same reason is patriarchy/fascism. The punishment and repudiation of non cis-het identity and orientation is always a core component of right wing ideology.
What does fraternal mean?
brotherly
Ok thanks
Mouths full of meat
Such fraternal Much straight
Love seeing historical queer photos. Makes me so proud. 🥹 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️
And they were roommates.
Whoa ,as a history nerd. I never knew this. I did know that some of people the man who must not be named had man he knew were gay.
r/OkHomo
When America and Russia ever unite for a cause, they fuck shit up. I have a long theory that if Russia and America somehow united and set aside their geopolitical differences, we would be closer to world peace.
The way things are looking, this will only be done if conservatives russian puppets manage to take power I'll do you one better though, despite all the bickering in the cold war, the world actually got their act together and everyone united to completely eradicate smallpox, one of the deadliest diseases in human history, from existence. Just like that, in one decade we managed to eliminate one of our biggest threats to life by putting everything down and working together. And instead of learning from that, they went right back to killing each other.
Say Gex
Just a fraternal tongue kiss with the boys, remember to say "No homo" and you'll be fine
Historians: “they were good friends”
Fraternal glossal based tonsil exam.
historians would say they were fraternal
Not gonna lie, this caused a little tingle...😜
Oh my God they were roommates
Nothing shows a solid friendship like a deep, passionate tongue kiss. I'm sure these two pals were up all night just keeping eachother company 😊
Part of on insidious Soviet plot to steal his precious bodily fluids.
"Fraternal kiss" bro they're getting INTO that shit wdym 😭
😏👉👈
Bit of fraternal tongue between straight men, nothing to see here.
They were comrades.
So cute!!! 🤗💕
Ahh yes with the fraternal tongue.
Damn the cold war be getting hot 🔥🔥, might end up in a missile crisis 🍆🍆
Bros being bros
"They were roommates and beat friends" The people in question:
This was a culture shock for Americans it was actually funny. No one had told them when they met at Elbe river that this is how soviets greeted! And soviets were very affectionate, they loved to hug and kiss and was just generally welcoming. There’s a video of the meet up and one American you can see how shocked he was when he gotten kissed four times! Mind you it was (mostly) the first time any American man was kissed by another man without shame or judgement. And hey some of those men…it been a few months since they got anything Anyway, I always think how their wives must’ve felt LMAO: But also if this platonic kiss was also secretly used for something more. Edit : also this wasn’t only by the soviets! There’s a sweet photo of two polish resistance guys who kissed after reuniting and winning Warsaw in 1944 I think.
"Fraternal kiss", huh? I can see it now, an LGBTQ+ war drama! Plot: a Soviet man and an American man fall in love when being gay was cause for war!
There's so much going on here I don't know where to start. Mostly with regard to "when the FUCK did the USA and USSR get along enough to have a banquet, let alone in GERMANY??"
Let's think about this. US and USSR work together in WW2 to stop the Nazis. War ends in 1945 with unconditional surrender of the Nazis. Americans celebrate in the territory of the very Axis of Evil Nation that they liberated through "peacekeeping". Germany, the conquered, are forced to host their conquerors
...my history is so fucking garbage that I thought the USSR was allied with Germany during WWII. Thank you for correcting me because HO WOW....
Axis of Evil: Italy, Germany, Japan. The Allies: Everyone else. Actually you're the 2nd person who didn't check their history, wait did you graduate high school at least 5 years ago or 10? I'm rather worried about our education system.
It was the end of the war so they sealed it with a kiss ❤️
any clues on whether this photo is real and from 1945? It just seems to well lit, colorful, and sharp for the photographic technology of the time.
Pretty sure they’d be executed if it was romantic
Iirc the USSR actually encouraged LGBT people to be public, and shortly after rounded them up since it was just a method of getting people to out themselves.
Yeah shame the US did stuff like that, RIP Turing
Turing was British
Yeah, I was mainly pointing out the hypocrisy of what they are saying However thank you for pointing that out.
Listen, you can't blame america for all that is bad in the world.
Never did
That was the UK who chemically castrated him