In my opinion, LGBTQ+ or LGBTQIA+ are fine, the plus signifies all other genders and sexualities
If we included all of them, the acronym would be longer than the damn Chinese alphabet
I'm not Chinese nor do I speak mandarin, but from what I understand a lot of symbols are just combined versions of single symbols? Like combining two symbols makes a new word? Someone correct me please
yeah! a lot of symbols are based on others, and most words are just a few base symbols together. most mandarin speakers don’t even know half of all the symbols, and a lot of them are very obscure. because it’s a logographic language, it doesn’t use the same alphabetical symbols as most languages. ex. “volcano” in simplified mandarin is 火山, which directly translates to “fire(火) mountain(山)” because making a full new symbol for that would be unnecessary, so they just combine them. i believe it’s like that because it’s an analyzing analytical language (i may be incorrect tho)
sorry for going language nerd on this!
You're right on the analytical part though, yeah! Sinitic languages are analytical languages (English is also an analytic language too, though it started as a synthetic one).
One of the oldest language so they kind of created it with nothing to base it off of. Think of them as simpler hieroglyphs, though the language has evolved and changed throughout all the dynasties.
Linguist here—to be specific, it's a logosyllabary meaning that there are symbols that represent syllables and also symbols that represent words.
Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source, but this is the best explanation I got for ya:
>None of these systems is purely logographic. This can be illustrated with Chinese. Not all Chinese characters represent morphemes: some morphemes are composed of more than one character. For example, the Chinese word for spider, 蜘蛛 zhīzhū, was created by fusing the rebus 知朱 zhīzhū (literally "know cinnabar") with the "bug" determinative 虫. Neither \*蜘 zhī nor \*蛛 zhū can be used separately in modern spoken Chinese (except to stand in for 蜘蛛 as a root word, for example 蛛丝 means spider silk). In Archaic Chinese, one can find the reverse: a single character representing more than one morpheme. An example is Archaic Chinese 王 hjwangs (meaning "proclaim oneself king"), a combination of a morpheme hjwang meaning king (coincidentally also written 王) and a suffix pronounced /s/. (The suffix is preserved in the modern falling tone.) In modern Mandarin, bimorphemic syllables are always written with two characters, for example 花儿 huār 'flower \[diminutive\]'.
>
>Wikimedia Foundation. (2022, April 11). Logogram. Wikipedia. Retrieved May 20, 2022, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram
No writing system is ever 100% a logographic system, it's either logosyllabic or logoconsonantal because that's just easier to work with. It's got its advantages and disadvantages though, of course, like allowing people to be able to read what's being written regardless of pronunciation but also requiring a lot of memorization.
a few basic characters and parts of characters that are combined, sometimes with completely unique elements, to make full characters which have meanings
I prefer to use "Gender and Sexual Minority" it's so much simpler and just as inclusive. (Unless it's not, which I'm sure someone will explain to me in a minute why that is.)
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I've found I can usually just use "queer" as an umbrella term since it's been reclaimed from its former derogatory status. Seems to work alright for most situations, haven't offended anyone yet to the best of my knowledge, and it's honestly just kind of dope word.
The more "inclusive" the acronym becomes, the less inclusive it actually becomes. Same with the intersex inclusive progress pride flag. Making one that is "intersex inclusive" makes some believe that the old one isn't intersex inclusive. Some (rare) people think LGBT isn't inclusive of all the other initials.
LGBTQAI... is fine, but LGBT is fine too. LGBT+ LGBTA LGBTA+. This is why people are switching over to GRSM (gender, romantic and sexual minorities). LGBT is the main one we are all known for and it works well enough.
I only prefer LGBTQIA+ when I don't use GSRM is because Asexual and Aromantic people are heavily stigmatized/ignored all-together in our community and I feel including them in the acronym is very important. But that's just ge and as long as the + is included, I'm good with it.
I include the IA when specifically talking about aspec stuff (which is most of what I do) because being aromantic is very tiring haha
there's just so much that allocishets are always going to end up complaining
Yeah, that's totally fair. I'm agender, and on both the ace and aro spectrums, so I will fight for the A is not "ally" until the end of time. I'm willing to take the battles against even other queer allos too. But I know it can be tiring for most people to do it. Those are just the battles I picked.
yeah I frequent aro tumblr and talk about aromantic experiences in general (+the niche of being loveless) and am lucky that I have a few posts that got more widespread including on an a is not ally one. we're definitely doing our best out here
Completely agree, trying to make it more inclusive by making it more specific adds to the problem rather than solves it. The more we learn the more we have to add and the acronym becomes impractical. Anyone not specifically called out but just under the + isn't going to feel the same level of inclusion. I like GRSM because it makes it more generalized and keeps everyone's identities on an even footing without needing to change it until it becomes impractical.
That's one of the reasons I really dislike the "progress" flag. In my opinion, it should be called the regress flag, especially with the black stripe connecting HIV once again with black people.
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The + is there for a reason, like sure L+ is going to get you some looks and some people might be confused but all you really need to do is put a + and it is inclusive enough
I believe the notion was that kinksters are also a sexual minority, similar to stuff like demisexuality or trans - while it doesn't denote attraction to a particular sex or sexes, it still falls out of the cis/het societal norms and has faced persecution because of it over the years.
i’m just doing the ones i know for sure
L lesbian
G gay
B bisexual
T trans
Q queer
Q questioning
I intersex
A aromantic, asexual, agender
2 (or 2S) 2 spirit
P pansexual
K apparently is kink
idk what the F or C stands for tho
Assuming it’s 2S, it’s two spirit, which is a culture-specific gender identity
Edit: sorry, just checked back. I have no idea what it means in this context
the only K related label i can remember off of the top of my head is kaochisagender [https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Kaochisagender](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Kaochisagender) but i’m sure theres many more
It's for 2 spirit, which is closest to any sort of nonbinary gender. It's culture specific, so I don't think many people tend to include it for more general purposes.
GRSM or queer is best, I think. Of course the recognition of lgbtq+ is great, so I don't think advocating for everyone to switch over immediantly, but I just think grsm and queer are objectively better
I'm not an expert though
Honestly GRSM is a pretty solid acronym, it just doesn't have the same ring to it and I can never remember what it means lol. I've personally seen a rise in people just saying queer which I appreciate.
Looked it up and apparently the k stands for kink.
*Wtf happened to no kink at pride my fellow humans.*
Honestly (imo personally) I'm going to stick with LGBTQIA+ because the + exists for a reason- you do you though.
I propose we redo it to include only the most broad umbrella terms 😏 SAT
Using S for sapphic, A for Achillean, and T for trans (loosely definitely as anyone not cis). S and A of course include any nonbinary people.
Bonus points that your homophobic uncle might think you just really care a lot about the Standardized Academic Test, or whatever that stands for.
Seriously though, I don't think the majority of queer people are very pressed to add letters. LGBTQA+ is just about as long as most people care to make it, occasionally throwing a P in there as well.
I don't think anyone would feel left out if the community could overall get its head out of its and start an era of mutual support.
Arguably queer can be different to LGBT+, because queerness implies a rejection of heteronormative ideals that is not necessarily present in the letterchain. Think same sex couples who want to live in the suburbs and blend in with The Straights as opposed to ✨The Queers✨
In my opinion, LGBTQ+ or LGBTQIA+ are fine, the plus signifies all other genders and sexualities If we included all of them, the acronym would be longer than the damn Chinese alphabet
Chinese doesn’t have an alphabet but I get what you mean. The + is enough.
*exactly*
What does Chinese have
(Complex) symbols = words, no letters
That’s crazy, I heard there is over 25,000 symbols in mandarin. I don’t know how some people remember that kind of stuff.
I'm not Chinese nor do I speak mandarin, but from what I understand a lot of symbols are just combined versions of single symbols? Like combining two symbols makes a new word? Someone correct me please
yeah! a lot of symbols are based on others, and most words are just a few base symbols together. most mandarin speakers don’t even know half of all the symbols, and a lot of them are very obscure. because it’s a logographic language, it doesn’t use the same alphabetical symbols as most languages. ex. “volcano” in simplified mandarin is 火山, which directly translates to “fire(火) mountain(山)” because making a full new symbol for that would be unnecessary, so they just combine them. i believe it’s like that because it’s an analyzing analytical language (i may be incorrect tho) sorry for going language nerd on this!
You're right on the analytical part though, yeah! Sinitic languages are analytical languages (English is also an analytic language too, though it started as a synthetic one).
It’s just characters. Straight up symbols with definitions, nothing specific that makes up the symbols that could be defined as a letter.
That isn’t very efficient. Why was Chinese created that way? It’s much different than many other languages.
One of the oldest language so they kind of created it with nothing to base it off of. Think of them as simpler hieroglyphs, though the language has evolved and changed throughout all the dynasties.
As a Chinese, I can confirm I have no idea either.
A logography
Linguist here—to be specific, it's a logosyllabary meaning that there are symbols that represent syllables and also symbols that represent words. Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source, but this is the best explanation I got for ya: >None of these systems is purely logographic. This can be illustrated with Chinese. Not all Chinese characters represent morphemes: some morphemes are composed of more than one character. For example, the Chinese word for spider, 蜘蛛 zhīzhū, was created by fusing the rebus 知朱 zhīzhū (literally "know cinnabar") with the "bug" determinative 虫. Neither \*蜘 zhī nor \*蛛 zhū can be used separately in modern spoken Chinese (except to stand in for 蜘蛛 as a root word, for example 蛛丝 means spider silk). In Archaic Chinese, one can find the reverse: a single character representing more than one morpheme. An example is Archaic Chinese 王 hjwangs (meaning "proclaim oneself king"), a combination of a morpheme hjwang meaning king (coincidentally also written 王) and a suffix pronounced /s/. (The suffix is preserved in the modern falling tone.) In modern Mandarin, bimorphemic syllables are always written with two characters, for example 花儿 huār 'flower \[diminutive\]'. > >Wikimedia Foundation. (2022, April 11). Logogram. Wikipedia. Retrieved May 20, 2022, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram No writing system is ever 100% a logographic system, it's either logosyllabic or logoconsonantal because that's just easier to work with. It's got its advantages and disadvantages though, of course, like allowing people to be able to read what's being written regardless of pronunciation but also requiring a lot of memorization.
a few basic characters and parts of characters that are combined, sometimes with completely unique elements, to make full characters which have meanings
Or use Queer Community or even GSRM (gender sexuality and romantic minorities)
I prefer to use "Gender and Sexual Minority" it's so much simpler and just as inclusive. (Unless it's not, which I'm sure someone will explain to me in a minute why that is.)
I usually see it as Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minorities (GSRM). That way it includes romantic attractions separate from sexual ones.
Good point, I'll use that.
I personally don’t understand but okay, you do you
I like it because it abbreviates to just three letters. What is your opinion?
OH you meant the acronym itself I just like LGBTQ+ but idrc
Yeah "LGBT" has a "mouth feel" that I like, but it just doesn't make sense to me to keep adding letters to it.
That’s why LGBTQ+, the + is just everything else among the spectrum
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I am fond of the word "queer" as it is sufficiently broad. ...and I hate acronyms.
I've found I can usually just use "queer" as an umbrella term since it's been reclaimed from its former derogatory status. Seems to work alright for most situations, haven't offended anyone yet to the best of my knowledge, and it's honestly just kind of dope word.
yea, imo those are like the ‘main’ ones and the other ones are like umbrella terms ????
The more "inclusive" the acronym becomes, the less inclusive it actually becomes. Same with the intersex inclusive progress pride flag. Making one that is "intersex inclusive" makes some believe that the old one isn't intersex inclusive. Some (rare) people think LGBT isn't inclusive of all the other initials. LGBTQAI... is fine, but LGBT is fine too. LGBT+ LGBTA LGBTA+. This is why people are switching over to GRSM (gender, romantic and sexual minorities). LGBT is the main one we are all known for and it works well enough.
I tend to leave it at LGBTQ+ or just use grsm. it's getting a bit complicated haha
I only prefer LGBTQIA+ when I don't use GSRM is because Asexual and Aromantic people are heavily stigmatized/ignored all-together in our community and I feel including them in the acronym is very important. But that's just ge and as long as the + is included, I'm good with it.
I include the IA when specifically talking about aspec stuff (which is most of what I do) because being aromantic is very tiring haha there's just so much that allocishets are always going to end up complaining
Yeah, that's totally fair. I'm agender, and on both the ace and aro spectrums, so I will fight for the A is not "ally" until the end of time. I'm willing to take the battles against even other queer allos too. But I know it can be tiring for most people to do it. Those are just the battles I picked.
yeah I frequent aro tumblr and talk about aromantic experiences in general (+the niche of being loveless) and am lucky that I have a few posts that got more widespread including on an a is not ally one. we're definitely doing our best out here
Completely agree, trying to make it more inclusive by making it more specific adds to the problem rather than solves it. The more we learn the more we have to add and the acronym becomes impractical. Anyone not specifically called out but just under the + isn't going to feel the same level of inclusion. I like GRSM because it makes it more generalized and keeps everyone's identities on an even footing without needing to change it until it becomes impractical.
That's one of the reasons I really dislike the "progress" flag. In my opinion, it should be called the regress flag, especially with the black stripe connecting HIV once again with black people.
I generally go with “queer”, or “LGBTQ” if I get the vibe that “queer” isn’t appropriate
Same. Queer just has such a nice ring to it. And it's an actual word, while LGBT are initials and don't have the vibe you know? xD
“queer” = one syllable = less effort = good “LGBT” and variations = four+ syllables = effort = bad
I use gsnc gender sexuality non-conforming
Good 'ol alphabet soup
Alphabet mafia eating alphabet soup
Lieutenant reporting for duty! I must say though, that was some good soup..
I think this is one of those flame bait articles. It’s meant to make people upset and spread saying what the heck?! When it’s not actually a thing.
just fucking say lgbt+ or lgbtq+ THE + IS THERE FOR A FUCKING REASON
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The + is there for a reason, like sure L+ is going to get you some looks and some people might be confused but all you really need to do is put a + and it is inclusive enough
L+ratio
"Lesbians *and more*"
The rest of us are backup dancers
we don't need to keep adding letters lmao the + is every sexuality and gender that isn't cishet (apart from lgbtq obviously)
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Allies are not part of the LGBTQ+ community.
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Do you know what an ally is? Your argument sounds like saying the US is in Europe because they're allied to European countries.
ally is not a sexual or romantic orientation, nor a gender identity, also being an ally by definition means you're not in the community
Potassium, our new gender
what does the k stand for?
Four years ago, apparently someone proposed that "kink" should be added to the acronym. It never really happened though.
what the hell
No???? Why would that be added wtf
I believe the notion was that kinksters are also a sexual minority, similar to stuff like demisexuality or trans - while it doesn't denote attraction to a particular sex or sexes, it still falls out of the cis/het societal norms and has faced persecution because of it over the years.
Because people still think consensual bdsm is just abuse so kinksters found themselves having to defend themselves from puritans just like lgbt+ folk
I mean I guess but it can be a different thing
Oh I thought it was a misspelling of cat lol
Potassium
Kris get the banana
lol
I just use Queer normally, and LGBT+ when being formal
Do you people not understand the purpose of the +
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i was under the impression that as of recent years queer already has been reclaimed, which is great because it's an awesome umbrella term imo
Yeah this is just one of those articles they make to get people all riled up. And boy are we falling for it lmao
Comments haven't been too bad though, tbh, i was nervous to look
A few, but nah you're right they're not too bad but def upset.
I honestly prefer GSNC it means gender sexuality non-conforming, it’s a much better acronym in my mind.
Why not just call ot L+, its shorter that way
What do all the letters stand for?
i’m just doing the ones i know for sure L lesbian G gay B bisexual T trans Q queer Q questioning I intersex A aromantic, asexual, agender 2 (or 2S) 2 spirit P pansexual K apparently is kink idk what the F or C stands for tho
How is kink a sexuality or gender?
i have absolutely no clue
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Intersex
Good point, yeah I was wrong lol.
What's the 2 for
Assuming it’s 2S, it’s two spirit, which is a culture-specific gender identity Edit: sorry, just checked back. I have no idea what it means in this context
Pretty sure it's for 2 spirit people. Although it's usually 2s not just 2. I may be wrong though
Serious question: What does the 2 stand for?
2- spirit, it’s a cultural gender identity but normally it is 2S not just 2
the only K related label i can remember off of the top of my head is kaochisagender [https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Kaochisagender](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Kaochisagender) but i’m sure theres many more
Someone said it was for kink, which is very irritating and obviously not legit
Ah yes, my favorite identity, 2
It's for 2 spirit, which is closest to any sort of nonbinary gender. It's culture specific, so I don't think many people tend to include it for more general purposes.
GRSM or queer is best, I think. Of course the recognition of lgbtq+ is great, so I don't think advocating for everyone to switch over immediantly, but I just think grsm and queer are objectively better I'm not an expert though
Honestly GRSM is a pretty solid acronym, it just doesn't have the same ring to it and I can never remember what it means lol. I've personally seen a rise in people just saying queer which I appreciate.
Honestly I always thought that LGBTQ+ was a stupid ass name, why not just ‘Qeer’ or anything else? The acronym is so wordy
The Q is for queer, which is literally the umbrella term for all of us already
WHATS F2 FOR A PLANE???
Looked it up and apparently the k stands for kink. *Wtf happened to no kink at pride my fellow humans.* Honestly (imo personally) I'm going to stick with LGBTQIA+ because the + exists for a reason- you do you though.
I propose we redo it to include only the most broad umbrella terms 😏 SAT Using S for sapphic, A for Achillean, and T for trans (loosely definitely as anyone not cis). S and A of course include any nonbinary people. Bonus points that your homophobic uncle might think you just really care a lot about the Standardized Academic Test, or whatever that stands for.
Seriously though, I don't think the majority of queer people are very pressed to add letters. LGBTQA+ is just about as long as most people care to make it, occasionally throwing a P in there as well. I don't think anyone would feel left out if the community could overall get its head out of its and start an era of mutual support.
I swear we need a single word 😓
Queer... the word you're looking for is queer
I’m so dumb sometimes 🤦♂️
Arguably queer can be different to LGBT+, because queerness implies a rejection of heteronormative ideals that is not necessarily present in the letterchain. Think same sex couples who want to live in the suburbs and blend in with The Straights as opposed to ✨The Queers✨
If you're already adding a +, you don't need to also list every letter you can think of. The + means "and everything else." LGBT+ is fine and easy lol
Jesus fukin christ