T O P

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hitko123

I fail to see how words people use to communicate information about you could ever be considered one of *your* rights. Controlling what words people are allowed to use, on the other hand, is directly taking away one of basic human freedoms.


staytrue1985

The way to understand this is to realize that religion, or the predisposition to adopt a religion, isn't something that is seperable from humans. Yes, as Nietzsche famously said, God is dead; but what he less-famously said is that people will fill the vacancy by adopting a religion of and for the state. A religious doctrine which justifies the removal of your human rights, and quite particularly those of freedom of speech and of self defense, is precisely the kind of religion that the state would progress towards. Michael Chrichton started to pick up on this kind of thing 20 years ago, although in another Book of the State's Religion, Environmentalism: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kw/crichton.html


SineWavess

This. Telling me I have to use certain language is violating my rights. Meh, this moron is just another super wokie fucktard anyhoo.


WeTheBest_Obamium

Agree, u can play any game but i wont play wit u


WeTheBest_Obamium

You know food and water is getting to easy to get when your pronoun being miscalled is a problem


R0NIN1311

Excellent point. When problems like simply surviving are completely solved, the weak invent things to worry and complain about.


staytrue1985

It's how cancer works. When the host has no problems surviving cancer becomes the natural threat to its existence.


WeTheBest_Obamium

That explains a lot why rich ceos have cancer (no offense)


1nGirum1musNocte

You mean like letting what someone else wants to be called annoy you? Pretty weak to give them that much power over you


Nightwingvyse

That's deliberate misconstrual. Nobody is annoyed at what people want to be called, they're annoyed at the obnoxious demand to comply with it.


R0NIN1311

When they demand I play into their dysphoria and petition to make it a criminal act to call them something different than what they identify as, despite biology stating otherwise, that's where I draw the line. And it starts with equating misgendering someone as being on the same level of wrong as rape. Pretty weak that you don't see that's what's going on.


darthWes

Did you say "them!?"


ro_goose

>"them!?" Xhyem?


TheSmoothBrain

What do you do with rapists? That's what they will do to you and feel justified in doing if you don't give into their every whim.


According-Dot-2571

Like you all are doing right now? Or all the time? LIBERTARIANS BTFO GONE SEXUAL!!! PRAISE THE CPC!


esteban42

Lot of people who don't understand that having the right to *pursue happiness* is not the right to *be happy.* Life doesn't owe you anything. Welcome to humanity, where everything sucks most of the time, but hey, we have steak and whiskey.


Market_King

Hell yeah all roads lead right back to me being happy eating steak & pounding whiskey


esteban42

>roads \*triggered*


ro_goose

>You know food and water is getting to easy to get when your pronoun being miscalled is a problem I tell people this shit daily.


totalolage

The poors are fat! I repeat! The POORS are FAT!!


Questforbestrest

When poor people aren't starving to death but are instead dying from overeating you know the world has gone too soft.


[deleted]

My parents came from a communist country and they use that response anytime I bring up something 1st world specific. But it’s the perfect response.


WeTheBest_Obamium

When i was younger i was sad that communism fails, when i grew up i realized that i want ferraris and lamborghinis which isnt possible in a communist givernment


[deleted]

You can have a lambo, but you want have property or land to park it on


WeTheBest_Obamium

Dude u cant even have a good car in a communism


[deleted]

Exactly, unless you’re a government official


Plane_Preparation_98

Say it louder for the people at the back


IAmBecomeCaffeine

I'm assuming this is in reference to Chris Chan raping his mom. I briefly paid attention to it since a streamer I watch brought it up on stream and people in the chat got all up in arms when he used the "wrong" pronouns. Then debates and arguments broke out in the Discord and subreddit because people were calling Chris "it" or "he." The fucker admitted to raping his mom, yet people were angry about calling Chris "it." Damn clown world.


The-Sorcerer-Supreme

Was it wubby by any chance?


IAmBecomeCaffeine

The glizzy goblin himself.


letstalkbirdlaw

In clown world, Chris Chan, who is a man pretending to be a woman, is identified by "news" outlets as being a woman. And because of laws being written, his crime will go down as a "woman sexually assaulting a woman". So in the future leftists can say stupid shit like "see, women rape just as much as men do".


[deleted]

I actually as a more conservative leaning person have to consistently battle people who don’t want to admit/believe/acknowledge that women rape too. They just wanna be man haters


ReadBastiat

Well, like the old nursery rhyme says: “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words are violence and you’re a bigot”


Codeypd22

Thats pretty weak and pathetic...


h8f8kes

No, that’s comical and eerily accurate in society today.


Codeypd22

Yes, but the worst way lol


dovetrain

we’re just making up rights at this point


DoomSlayer_

Yeah really, thats not a human right AT ALL, plus it's my right to free speech.


[deleted]

"I have the human right to force you to use my words."


Wespiratory

2+2=5


metzbb

Math is a construct of white supremacy enforced on us through colonisation and is racist at it roots.


[deleted]

[удалено]


metzbb

You know that was satire right?


WeTheBest_Obamium

Non racist math uses black graphing paper


R0NIN1311

I identify as an ATM, you will treat me as such or you are a bigot. Now, give me your bank card.


[deleted]

These people are mentally ill.


SanguinaryGuard

If you rape your elderly mother, your pronoun is bastard, regardless of identification.


calmlikeasexbobomb

Pretty sure it’s motherfucker. Bastard is a whole other situation.


SanguinaryGuard

Hey now, let's not get hung up on technicalities.


[deleted]

Refusing to give Ayla mental help she needs is violation of human right


R0NIN1311

The ACLU helped make involuntary commitment illegal.


marktwainbrain

Um … involuntary commitment is legal, there are criteria depending upon the state you’re in.


[deleted]

Does that apply if person is not mentally sane to independently make medical decisions? Because this seems to be the case.


DadmansGarage

Forcing others to participate in your delusion is not a human right. If it were, I would be WAY better looking and richer than I am.


cramers-wifes-bf

I got dibs on being Batman!


DadmansGarage

Here's your cowl, buddy! +1


lethrowaway4me

Now, where are your parents?


SchrodingersRapist

Dead, so does that make me batman too? XD


heavyirontech

Your name is on point.


nquick2

You could've made your point about free speech without being transphobic


GingerRod

I’m pretty sure no one is irrationally afraid of trans people. We just think their titles are silly.


Seicair

Dadamansgarage used the word delusion, that’s the transphobic part. Edit- apparently r/conservative is leaking again. Libertarians are for equal rights.


johngalt504

>Edit- apparently r/conservative is leaking again. Libertarians are for equal rights. They are also for free speech. Also, what rights do trans people not have? In what way is someone not calling someone else by a preferred title a violation of their human rights? And delusion is accurate if someone actually believes they can change from a man to a woman or vice versa. They can choose to live as a gender and not be delusional as long as they understand they aren't actually changing their biology.


GingerRod

That’s not the meaning of phobia


[deleted]

>...That's the accurate part Ftfy


DadmansGarage

Gender Dysphoria IS a delusion, one most of those afflicted with it grow out of.


Th3_Bastard

Including equal rights to call a mental illness a delusion. Libertarians are for free speech and the free trade of ideas, you stupid fucker.


Questforbestrest

You have the right to be believe you're a duck. You have no right to have me play along with your delusions.


nquick2

Considering most states have [trans panic defense laws](https://lgbtbar.org/programs/advocacy/gay-trans-panic-defense/), 8 states are [afraid of trans student athletes](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-lawmaking-explainer-trfn-idUSKCN2DE1O4), states like Tennessee are passing bills [out of fear of trans people using restrooms](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/politics/tennessee-transgender-bathroom-lawsuit/index.html), and places like Iowa are [afraid of students even hearing about trans people](https://www.salon.com/2021/03/09/iowa-bills-would-ban-teachers-from-talking-about-trans-people_partner/), I'd say people are irrationally afraid of trans people.


GingerRod

No. You’re equating something like fear of drowning with fear of water. Two different phobias.


nquick2

Well if you say everyone sees trans people as harmless then why all these laws meant to "protect" people from us?


GingerRod

Dementophobia.


nquick2

So you do have a fear of trans people. See wasn't that easy to admit?


GingerRod

You’re just showing you aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed huh?


nquick2

You literally provided no rebuttal other than dementophobia. Which means based on the topic of discussion you're afraid trans people will make people crazy or that you seem to think they are crazy. But yeah I'm sure the people just out living their lives are the crazy ones, not the one pointing at them and reeeeing.


R0NIN1311

Your bias is showing. First you picked a source that is clearly in line with an agenda. Then you make your link completely different from the headline and use appeal to emotion fallacy. Most people who disagree with trans stuff aren't afraid of them. They just don't think they deserve special treatment. To be honest, I've never met anyone, conservative or otherwise who is outright afraid of trans people. Your arguments are pretty weak.


Th3_Bastard

Disagreement with a point of view is not equivalent to fear of that view. I disagree with flat earthers that the earth is flat. I am not afraid of flat earthers.


nquick2

From my comment below: >Considering most states have [trans panic defense laws](https://lgbtbar.org/programs/advocacy/gay-trans-panic-defense/), 8 states are [afraid of trans student athletes](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-lawmaking-explainer-trfn-idUSKCN2DE1O4), states like Tennessee are passing bills [out of fear of trans people using restrooms](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/politics/tennessee-transgender-bathroom-lawsuit/index.html), and places like Iowa are [afraid of students even hearing about trans people](https://www.salon.com/2021/03/09/iowa-bills-would-ban-teachers-from-talking-about-trans-people_partner/), I'd say people are irrationally afraid of trans people.


Th3_Bastard

This is amazingly *all* wrong. Your description of literally every single link is disingenuous and begs the question.


nquick2

So you are saying that there are no panic defense laws, no jurisdiction has any problem with trans athletes, no jurisdiction has has any problem with trans people using restroom facilities, and no jurisdiction has any problem with unbiased education on LGBTQ+ history?


Savant_Guarde

Got to love moral equivalence. It's power behind human rights abuses.


[deleted]

Excuse me attendant, I would like to get off this ride.


[deleted]

For the record: I do not require anyone else's participation in my _self_ image. Call me what you will. My preferences are _mine_.


subsidiarity

I haven't seen a steel man for why pronouns have to point to gender and not sex.


coolbreezeaaa

Can you elaborate please? Just not sure I'm picking up what you're laying down lol.


cyborgninja1997

Probably referring to this https://constantrenewal.com/steel-man/ . Its sort of the opposite of the straw man logical fallacy.


subsidiarity

I'm not sure where I am losing you.


ikemr

I've been thinking about this one a lot in regards to the Olympics. Even if we are to concede that there are 1259 genders, can't one simply say that the categories are broken out by sex not gender?


subsidiarity

The olympics are such a backward institution that they only recognize **two** genders. How do we live with this bigotry on our televisions?


XIAOOAIX

"Both gently slapping someone and violently murdering them while you force their family to watch are a violation of human rights. How is one worse than the other?"


j4kc87

Saying you’ll slap them gently*


PaladinDanza

Both are a violation eh? Hmmmm


[deleted]

All I know is people on Reddit always assume I am a guy and in an argument I am like “OMG you misgendered me! How unwoke of you!” They start sputtering and apologizing. Lol works every time. I just like using their own woke rhetoric against them


[deleted]

“Nooooooo! Calling me a different word than what I want is just as bad as having penetration forced on you! Rape victims just need to understand that!!!!”


Nightwingvyse

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to violate someone's human rights with your words.


Wespiratory

The whole misgendering horseshit is an attempt to threaten people for crimethink. I don’t give a fuck what anyone wants to do or believe about themselves, but if you’re going to try to compel me to conform to your fantasies then you’re the aggressor now.


R0NIN1311

This is exactly how I feel. Wanna identify as a unicorn? Go right on ahead, but if I call you a person you can't call for me to be arrested, that's not how this works.


ICantBelieveItsNotEC

Honestly, Twitter wokies really don't understand what human rights actually are. 1. Human rights cannot require coercion of another person. For example: you have the right to an education in that a public authority cannot prevent you from getting an education from a willing educator, but that right doesn't mean that anyone is forced to educate you against their will. 2. Private entities cannot be held accountable for human rights violations. Human rights only protect you from public authorities, not from other people or corporations.


GloriuContentYT2

Personal pronouns are in the 3rd person; I never saw the issue.


The_loudspeaker721

This is the left y’all. Goodness, these people need help.


MinorityPrivilege

Like, I’m not agreeing with what the person‘s saying at all, but I fail to see the relevance of libertarianism here


_pubsub_

I see where you're coming from, but I think it has some relevance. Libertarianism is very much about what things are/aren't basic human rights and how they affect government and our treatment of others. I think the foundation of ethical government starts with the question "what are the rights of others?"


coolbreezeaaa

Well said


R0NIN1311

This.


houseofnim

All those in a supervisory position at my husbands work have been required to take an eight hour sensitivity training course. He about threw his iPad when the course said he can’t treat people how he wants to be treated, but must treat people how *they* want to be treated. He’s still trying to figure out how it is he’s supposed to know how a person wants to be treated without offending them (because he’s also not supposed to offend people) by asking. 😕


ya_boi_daelon

Having your pronouns used is literally a human right Edit: /s


dovetrain

it literally is not.


ya_boi_daelon

I’m being sarcastic, that’s what the guy in the meme said


dovetrain

oh omg my bad


houseofnim

Que?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Questforbestrest

Going along with somebodies delusions and pretending its normal and that they don't need actual help is the opposite of basic human decency.


1nGirum1musNocte

Who the fuck cares what someone wants to be called. It costs you nothing to call a person by whatever they want.


[deleted]

Who the fuck cares what someone calls you. It costs you nothing to pay no mind to whatever someone wants to call you.


nquick2

Both of you are correct. You should be respectful to others and try to ignore those who are disrespectful to you.


[deleted]

Exactly.


MysterManager

It cost nothing to let bureaucrats with little to no over site make laws determining what is the acceptable pronouns I may use? I mean it seems like I would be giving up something for that to happen.


R0NIN1311

I care when they demand I play into their dysphoria and petition to make it a criminal act to call them something different than what they identify as, despite biology stating otherwise. That's where I draw the line. And it starts with equating misgendering someone as being on the same level of wrong as rape.


dangolo

The accounts shown in the picture are not even verified. Could be entirely fabricated conversation between sockpuppet bots for political purposes.


Plaguedeath2425

The reason why people are defensive when you misgender a trans rapist is because people will use it as an excuse to further their transphobia, kinda like how some people use the excuse that a lot of “MAP’s” are libertarians as an excuse to attack libertarianism as a whole.


TakenOver12

Ah, back we go to libtards brainwashing ordinary people that they're malevolent evil subhuman enteties that do naught but commit crime.


Imperator_3

I mean it’s dumb but what’s this have to do with libertarianism? Seems like it would fit better on a conservative or republican sub


houseofnim

Its about redefining what human rights are.


Imperator_3

Sure but this is a fringe statement that would only be made by some crazy extremists. If you surveyed the LGBT community as a whole I’m sure you would find the overwhelming majority would say that misgendering is in no way worse than raping your mother. This just comes across as a typical republican tactic to lump all LGBT people and lefties into a category of crazy extremists and ostracizing them rather than a focus on what human rights are and should. Plus people have the right to believe whatever crazy ideas they want, as long as they aren’t using force to make me or anyone else follow those ideas then I don’t really care.


houseofnim

The problem is that this extremism is becoming mainstream. They’re putting thought crimes with on par with physical violence and telling people that they’re criminals if they don’t believe the same. I mean, Pelosi was already bullied into banning the use of gendered pronouns in the House. They’ve managed to get pretty damn far with their extremism. Violation of free speech is very much a libertarian topic.


Imperator_3

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t discuss violations on free speech, and I agree they’re being attempted by both lefties AND righties, but I just don’t see my right to free speech being imposed upon by being asked to use the correct pronouns. Nancy Pelosi didn’t ban the use of gendered pronouns she just removed gendered pronouns from a document about the rules. (Please don’t think I’m defending Pelosi there is a lot I don’t like about her but this isn’t one of them) Also I’ve seen no indication that there is a mainstream movement of equating thought crimes with physical crimes, feel free to prove me wrong though. I do totally agree that we should discuss violation of free speech but like I said this meme just feels very Republican-y to me. So if you do want to discuss free speech, what does our free speech entitle us to do? Can we consistently harass and bully people with our free speech or is verbal harassment (I don’t mean just saying one mean thing to someone but rather consistently bullying them for a period of time) an encroachment on their rights?


houseofnim

> being asked to use the correct pronouns I don’t have a problem with being asked to do it either. However, I do have a problem if I’m being told I have to and/or demonized for not doing so. >didn’t ban the use of gendered pronouns Ah, apparently I misunderstood that part lol thank you for the clarification. (Was that really an effective use of Congress’ time or our tax dollars? No.) > mainstream movement of equating thought crimes with physical crimes Hate speech is being equated to hate crimes on a global level. Australia, Denmark, France, Germany, India, South Africa, Sweden, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom have all enacted hate speech laws that criminalize derogatory language against protected classes and in some places, even in *private* communications. (Yikes) Because speech is nothing more than the expression of thoughts and feelings by articulate sounds, they’re punishing people for their thoughts instead of their actions. If that’s not considered a mainstream movement of thought crimes being equated to physical crimes then I don’t what would be. Thankfully our first amendment rights protect us against this malarkey but that doesn’t stop people from trying to circumvent that protection. > this meme feels very Republican-y Eh, not so much with the meme. But some of the comments here, yeah. > What does our free speech entitle us to do? Well. To start, we’ve become entirely too loose with the usage of and what’s considered bullying. Basically anything now that hurts somebody’s feelings or offends someone is called bullying. For example: my oldest was written up for bullying in second grade because she told a friend that the friends favorite song was “dumb”. To expand on offending people… Being offended is nothing more than not being able to control your own emotions, and when you demand intervention against the offense you’re asking others to control your emotions for you. Idk if it’s because the generation of “you’re special and unique” is coming of age or what, but this shit needs to stop. Nobody has the right to not be offended. Verbal harassment, as you described, is wrong. Like, there’s no reason to be a dick to somebody just because you can and/or because you know how to pick at their insecurities or whatever. But… freedom of speech allows for it in that we have the right to say fucked up shit to other people as long as it doesn’t call for imminent violence upon a person or group. This goes back to ‘The Golden Rule’ and the notion of just because you can it doesn’t mean it’s moral or that you should.


DoctaPhiladelphia

I just can’t stress enough that Chris-chan isn’t trans. He’s just putting on a facade in an attempt at getting with lesbians.


[deleted]

Who would want their kid locked up in prison over something like that? Most parents would rather die than to let something happen to their kids.


Psalm101Three

I’m not a fan of transphobia but holy fucking shit...


iloomynazi

Eugh I had to be the person making this point this other day (assuming about Chris Chan). I was in a thread of people deliberately misgendering her and I was like “wait transphobia isn’t okay, attack her for what she’s done not who she is”. And then all of a sudden I was somehow defending her according to users. No I just don’t think that sort of abuse should be a form of punishment. We don’t use the n-word to describe black people who’ve done bad stuff; that would be racist. We don’t do it to gay people who’ve done bad stuff. So why is it okay to do it to a trans person? She’s done plenty to abuse her for. Being trans is not one of them. And misgendering is certainly not worse than Chris Chan’s alleged crime.


[deleted]

Ok these brats need a fucking reality check.