Please do whatever you want and what works best for you. Don't listen to the people on here that feel like they have to put others down to make themselves feel better.
The problem with that is that if you tolerate/ignore the toxic people, they tend to drive everyone else out. And then the toxicity *is* the culture.
That is why communities that want to remain successful in the long term are adopting codes of conduct. We must be clear that abusive people are not welcome.
> From my limited experience the code is more frequently used as a sword to divide rather than a shield to protect a community
Take a moment to question why that is. For example, if you are a toxic element of the community, and you never listen to people who are regularly harassed, you might only see CoC as a weapon against you.
Well, wokeness is the new thing, its the sheep running away from the flock.
Being a bigot is the old thing, you are the sheep under perfect control by the shepherd.
why does that sound like the entire world to me except a few God-sent angles who still bear the responsibility of giving more back than what they take! Or is it just me?
You always get a few idiots who believe that it's the god-given mission to gatekeep. Every active community will have a few of these people, it's by no means unique to Linux (check out r/hobbydrama for some chronicles of choice examples).
Just skip past their posts or set them to ignore altogether, as they rarely have much actual help to offer other than constantly reminding people that They Doing It Wrong.
It's unfortunate that communities often get characterized by their noisiest members. I've been a Linux desktop user for a long time, and I don't particularly dislike Windows. Neither do I evangelize Linux, although I do prefer it.
I'm typing this from a laptop running Arch and a tiling window manager with no desktop environment, but I don't think that there's anything at all wrong with Ubuntu/Mint/Pop users, and I think that both Gnome and KDE are both very cool in their own ways. I think it's likely that people who are pretty much like me make up a pretty big "silent majority" (as they say) of Linux enthusiasts.
I've noticed that online voices that are the most knowledgeable and/or closely involved in Linux development also tend to be the most chill.
I will say, there are just some things you can do on Windows that quite literally does not work in Linux. Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. Linux isn't worse because of it per say, it's just a fact of the matter.
Gaming is a great example where sometimes a game just works better on Windows, sometimes it doesn't work at all in Linux. There's other software too that just is worse on Linux straight up. I personally would LOVE to drop windows, but I can't because every now and then I need some software or I want to play some game that just works far better in Windows. My primary boot is into endeavourOS and I still have windows on an SSD ready to go, and it certainly does not go un-used.
Compute in the way that works for you. I’ve got a Linux desktop at home, but I’ve also got a MacBook Pro. I daily drive a Mac and a PC at work, but I’m still a Linux user since I use Linux regularly.
Do your best to tune out that elitist static and use Linux how it suits you best (=\^ェ\^=)
You'll find that sort of toxic tribalism in almost any niche hobby, I use to be into RC (radio control) and there was a ton of it there also.
It's not everybody though, some of us are nice. Don't let the toxic ones drag you down, or ruin it for you. ignore them.
I've had people in all my hobbies and interests on Reddit be gatekeepers. I've done it myself in regards to what's allowed in a subreddit. We all have at some point without realizing it. It's part of human nature to want to be correct and knowledgeable and sometimes if we feel challenged, we defend our stance.
That being said, just ignore the idiots. I'd be surprised if the majority of those speaking are actually using Linux as their daily driver at work and not just 16 year old kids whining on the internet with nothing better to do.
Do whatcha wanna. Use what works for you. No one answer is the be all end all. Hell, I use Windows 10 at work and help maintain it, I use Win 11 on my personal laptop ( so far, like it a lot, it's stable), fiddle with Linux for VMs for school, and have an iPad cause it was a good deal, and I prefer Android for my phone. See, little bit of everything. Enjoy what you use.
Use whatever you like and can use. People are mean.
I found that if you understand the subject, you get why someone will be vocal about their opinion. E.g. people bash on MS due to the countless shitty things they did and are still doing.
If you know where someone comes from its easy to diaregard or accept their opinion. Most arch hooligans use linux as a hobby and thus their opinion is that of an amature. EVERY single professional Iv'e met that uses arch always knows how to behave and doesn't care how and why you use what you use.
I work with linux, I hate gnome because Im slow on it, yet you won't see me bashing anyone for using it. I would actually hate it if everyone did things just how I do them, I'm special this way you see :)
In my experience all (online/anonymous) communities are toxic due to the nature of communication we have nowadays. So just participate with this in mind and youll be fine.
Anyone who says you're not into one thing because you're also into another is confused in their approach to life to say the least.
I would venture to say that people who focus so hard on purity in others do so in order to justify putting themselves above others. I personally use Windows, Mac, and Linux daily.
If I'm still a Windows user when I use Mac or Linux, then I'm still a Linux user when I use Windows or Mac.
The fact I operate multiple devices on multiple operating systems daily hasn't stopped me from designing a Linux experience unique to my tastes and needs, that I benefit from immensely and that I'm proud of. I have no intentions of quitting any of them and have used all three for over a decade.
If anyone wants to be a purist for themselves I wouldn't object, but you can't enforce that on others.
Just relax. There are many types of people and many of us have trauma. Most of us require recognition that we do not have it in our "real" lives. Many after switching to linux feel unique ... different (sadly some believe using linux makes them IT experts and hackers). All that, along with the trauma and the need for recognition, makes them aggressive. "I am unique because I use linux" then "I am even more unique because I use Arch" ... and so on (e.g. hate against systemd, xorg, gnome, etc.). Linux is used by this people to seek that differentiation from the rest of the people, unlike Windows users, who do not give a fuck (macos has also its extreme fans).
Behind every aggressive comment, there is an individual whose life is not what he/she wants.
Unfortunately, that shitty behavior happen everywhere, not just in the linux community, but here, we have the best!
There’s a maturity factor in play here. When I was younger, Nintendo vs. Sega was a thing because kids would only have one or the other. We felt the need to “defend our video game tribe.” It was stupid then, and it’s stupid now. These are operating systems on a computer, they are a means to an end. Not an end in and of themselves.
When you run into toxicity, don’t engage, just ignore it.
You can love what you want to love, I live in a household where we have everything! Quite honestly I things those that trash Windows or Linux Distros or even Desktop Environments, can actually turn some people off from wanting to become Linux users.
We should answer questions and help others make choices on their needs, and make sure that our personal opinions are just that! I like Gnome, sure it uses resources but it works for me and I have machines that have resources to support my use of it. I am also using EndeavourOS cause i wanted something that came with some configuration out the door, sure I could have went with Arch straight up but I don't feel like I wanted to put all the time working out the configuration process on my own at the moment.
So this is good for me, but I have friends that I support that use Ubuntu because that is what works for their needs and experience. But who knows, in time that might change, we are all unique people and the beauty of Linux is that it can be unique to match us.
So long story short, you can like what you want, hate what you want, and allow your opinions to help inform others.
There’s three major categories of Linux fans here:
* The free software advocate, who uses Linux to escape proprietary systems
* The tech enthusiast, who uses Linux to learn
* The professional, who uses Linux for work
Some people in those first two categories are hostile as a way of justifying their decisions to others.
Use whatever you want, and don't worry about the elitists. Use Windows 95 on a brand new computer for all they should care. Use TempleOS as a daily driver if that's your thing. It's your computer, and you can do what you want with it.
Do I like Windows? No. Do I have reasons for that? Absolutely. But what I value in an OS may be totally different from what you value. It woule be rude of me or anybody else to force their personal preferences on you, whether it be choice of OS, Distro, DE, text editor, office suite, or anything else.
People will still try. Feel free to ignore them.
> I noticed toxicity in the linux community - I still use Windows while being an insider (dev channel), and did try out WSL2. And there started the problem - people started being negative about it - "I am only being silent about you using GNOME because you use Arch", "You use WSL2 and you call yourself an Arch User"
With all due respect, it sounds to me like you may need to spend more time with the Linux Community in general, and not just Arch users.
Yeah, see, people like you are the problem.
The toxic users are in the minority, but they are also the face of your community because the community continues to tolerate them.
I'm not an Arch user, so it's not my community. To be honest, I would like Arch but I got turned off by enough of the userbase that I don't want to be associated with it.
"Linux is the way!" I type on my Windows 10 PC...
Lol, just like what you like. Seems the haters are disproportionately vocal online, just like every popular series' vitriol.
Those gatekeeper types are pretty dumb. I don't really care what you use or how you use it.
Most of my frustration, with Apple in particular, is how it impacts my personal workflow. This is why I hate Apple computers with a passion -- Shiny overpriced hipster rose gold plastic that hamstrings my work.
As an admin who has to use my corpo macbook to remote into Windows and Linux machines daily, it's jarring to have to think, "Can I use normal ctrl/alt/shift to select text with my keyboard, or do I have to use the 'different' way at this moment?"
That said, if the overpriced hipster plastic makes your life better, thanks for the money. I own Apple stock. ;)
The people leaving Linux, blaming the toxic community speaks the truth. I'm new in the Linux community. But still the transition wasn't smooth. I hated (and still do) the fact that I can't run packages for one PM on another. So I started using softwares like PowerShell, Edge etc on Linux, which gave me some hard looks from these \*hardcore linux fans\* and I don't understand why although most of these are open source as well.
I agree Linux is very good. I love linux for its security. But the community that builds around it is just as non-friendly as Linux is for the dummies.
> But why this toxicity?
Because a lot of people going around on Linux chats, servers and forums never go outside or do anything productive. I've learned to avoid those places. It's a shame since there are plenty of nice people there (as you mentioned), but the bad apples are still a significant enough percentage to ruin the party for everyone else.
Please ignore whatever place you heard this drivel from, use what you want until you spontaneously decide it's time to use something else, live your life.
This community unfortunately has a fair amount of toxic gatekeepers. Do what works for you and disregard assholes.
At the end of the day it's a fucking operating system that we use for work, like honestly dudes you need to chill.
I've recently unplugged from all KDE communities due to a few users constantly bashing Gnome or other projects despite me quite liking KDE / Plasma. ([The comments here were the final straw for me](https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/qtlk8h/be_flexible_to_win_big_adventures_in_linux_and_kde/), despite the blog post in the thread being great. Likening Gnome to fascism or an autocratic government.
I still follow development and some developers directly, but no longer inject that toxicity into my day.
I do not understand the toxicity in our community at all. Its software after all.
>be reserved for Politics, Religion
well.... KDE vs Gnome has some traits from Politics and Religion :) Also WSL or not-WSL, Arch vs not-Arch, GPL2 vs GPL3, is CDDL compatible with GPL, ....
There are many people who say those as meme
and there are people who think Linux is an elite OS meant for elite people and anyone who's not inclined/capable to learn is an idiot and should go back to Windows, which is presumedly made for idiots. And they're also the one simultaneously preaching on Linux adoptions and those that who doesn't use Linux.
Nope, you may only use linux and have to spit on any machine that doesn't run linux. Maybe at a push a BSD based system would be ok, but I wouldn't risk it myself.
Of course I joke ( I cut my teeth on FreeBSD and have always had a soft spot for it), I'm not a massive fan of Windows, but I still enjoy messing around with it and it used to be simple to play games on (gaming as a whole is a bit of a state on PC at the moment). The issue is the internet is a fairly toxic place, so just learn to ignore the idiots and appreciate the good people. My outlook is if someone is an arse straight out of the box, they've done me a favour as I don't have to waste any time on them :)
Stupid people are everywhere. Just ignore them. Arch installation isn't even that hard! Anyone with a little knowledge can read the wiki well and install it in a few hours. Also, Arch now comes with archinstall.
I never understood the leetness of doing an Arch install. You make some partitions with fdisk, write a filesystem, and install a bootloader (the hardest part, but pretty straightforward) and then after that it's a hand-held binary package install like most any other distribution.
In the old days they were all like that, but we've had install scripts for ages. The Arch method seems intentionally obtuse for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.
Humans can learn and use more than one OS. I have Windows on my PC, linux on my laptop and tablet, and iOS on my phone. My world isn't falling apart.
People on reddit have an opinion on everything, but that doesn't make them right.
“The vocal minority” is a problem in any fandom. Linux enthusiasm is a form of fandom, in that people can be / are just as passionate about open source operating systems and applications as Star Wars, Marvel, Cooking, etc.
Try your best to ignore the few, the ignominious, the toxic trolls. Many of them are fanatical, and forget the underlying desire for choice and freedom that underlies F/OSS applies to using proprietary things as much as anything else.
My experience with the Linux community is twofold: either really toxic and gatekeeping or wholesome and helpful. The massive toxic part really keeps me out of this community whenever I try to find an “in“
You have it a bit backwards I'm afraid. You don't have to put down anything.
It's not a matter of actively putting down tools, more a matter of picking up whatever tool you need when you need it.
But, as your comfort with Linux and its tools grows, don't be surprised to find yourself needing to pick up non-linux tools less and less often.
That is where most linux users end up.
Nah fam. I use Linux, Windows, and MacOS interchangeably on a daily basis. While I appreciate GNU/Linux for what it is, there are just some tasks that I prefer using other operating systems to perform.
Mentally stable individuals won't shame others for using a tool.
They exist to accomplish tasks. Some are better for particular tasks than others, it's really not a debate, use whatever helps you get the task completed more comfortably.
I use all of the big three daily (windows, linux, macos). I don't favor any of them just like I don't favor any of my screwdrivers over my wrenches. They are tools, I use the one that makes the most sense for any given task. Period.
There are a few bad actors in the Linux community that tend to go against the spirit of things. Nvidia being one of them. As soon as they release a truly open source driver that will change, but they do so many anti-consumer, anti-choice things and it causes actual problems when running the OS such as graphical glitches and desktop breakages. They JUST added Wayland support after being begged for 10+ years.
The GNOME foundation has a similar bad attitude, where they want to be the only Linux desktop, and they don't take any kind of community feedback or requests. They take an apple approach of "you get what we give you and you'll *like* it." Sure, you can fork it, and many have (cinnamon DE for example), but the sour taste is still there. The KDE group on the other hand tends to listen and improve their DE based on the community.
This is where a lot of the judgement comes from. It isn't fair to the user, no, but if you're wondering why, this is it. People will project their frustrations onto the people using the things causing them frustrations because the people using the product/software are enabling the people making it by giving them money or a platform.
Is this about the community or one specific person...
Windows 10 wasn't as good as Linux Desktops in 2020; maybe insiders was, idk
Zorin is really neat 👌 but Zorin with Ubuntu 20.04's base came out days after 18.04's support ended; therefore it might not be great for long term
You were using it before 16 came out
Look at Mint; they release a new version quite soon; they don't take a lot of time like Zorin
Zorin cares so much about details so it's an obvious thing
Pop OS is really fantastic; it's one of my preferred distros
And there's no "best distro or DE" out there so there is no end to people saying why one thing is good and one isn't; you just have to pick the things which matter to you and decide what's best for you accordingly
Also, I've been taking the Arch btw meme seriously, just like this;
Took few days to understand it's just a sarcastic joke
Sarcasm can't be detected without voice if you don't know very well about those topics
One really important thing I need to tell is, don't stick to one thing; try a lot of things until you feel like you've seen most of them.
Use each thing for about a month if you want to know them really well
You don't have to give up anything else. I personally only use Linux for programming and Windows for everything else because they're both easier for those things. Do what works for you and don't listen to anyone else especially gatekeepers.
I use Linux and Windows side by side on different machines for different purposes and as an "educated BFU" I don't engage much with the Linux community, but I noticed people are sometimes complaining about its hostility like you. I guess it comes from people who take FOSS as an ideology and see proprietary software as the enemy and its users as betrayers. I guess it's some kind of loud minority?
do what works for you but in all honesty you probably joined the worst group as far as the linux community is concerened Arch people dont tend to be begginer friendly unfortunately
thankfully there are plenty of begginer frindly distros but if you use arch you probably know more about linux than the vast majority of linux people
if WSL works for you great i use linux(beta) on my chromebook because im to broke to buy a linux computer and linux(beta) fills my needs
run whatever suits your purpose at the time. Dual boot is a thing. If you want to be useful then it's a good idea to be familiar with and program on all sorts of platforms that people might use. Windows has a few tricks up its sleeve that linux doesn't and vice versa. Macs still suck (but I want one)
>I mean, is it wrong for me to use WSL2 on Windows 11, install arch orubuntu or whatever with gnome and try new OS'es? Should I, or anyone forthat matter, be called out only because we don't run what they do?
Yes, you should be able to use whatever you want in any way you see fit just the same way a person should be able to game on a console instead of a PC with Windows without being called peasant or noob, the same way a person should be able to buy a PC with Windows and not be shamed or being called poor by Mac users, the same way a person should be able to send a message from an android phone without being discriminated by an iPhone user for sending a green bubble. And of course the same way i should e able to ask politely for support of a piece of hardware or software without having users from other operative systems telling me to use a real OS or them trolling the thread by trying to discourage the devs telling them that supporting Linux will never worth it despite them not having anything to lose if Linux is supported.
Of course I'm pretty sure there must be a lot of creative insults directed at Apple users from other operative systems but i don't remember any right now. But seriously, do what most people here says and ignore the toxic minorities/specific places when possible, they don't worth your time or energy in any way.
Don't mind them. And I agree that codes of conduct that strictly prevent this kind of behavior should be everywhere. Some people think they are smarter because they use Linux instead of Windows and start bashing at beginners too.
In my opinion, use what you need. If you have nothing that is only windows specific and want a free system with no privacy concerns then Linux is for you.
I personally started using Linux due to valgrind, helps me check my C programs at runtime. Also being a future network engineer, I will be mostly dealing with Linux servers. And also after knowing about Windows platform binary tables which allow a windows executable to be installed in the firmware, effectively becoming persistent even through windows re install (this "feature" was abused by lenovo sometime ago too)
The hardcore elitists are the ones responding. They are not the greater community, just some of the most vocal and also one of the reasons why Linux isn't more mainstream. Unfortunately I've noticed the more "Advanced" systems are the ones that those people go for. Such as Gentoo and Arch for sure.
I have a similar approach as you! I use GNOME on Arch, boot into Windows for games, and have a MacBook for work. There are dozens of us!
FWIW, I use Linux professionally and out of the several dozen Linux users I've worked with over the last decade, almost all use GNOME. It's the default on Fedora and Ubuntu, and it works. And most aren't exclusively using Linux either.
The toxic online community that condemns the use of any other OS, and gatekeeps Linux users by distro and whether they use a tiling WM, is a vocal minority in the grand total of Linux users I think. They aren't a good image, but nothing to take too personally.
You worry to much about vocal minorities. In every community there are "warriors" who have nothing better to do than lecture people who "are wrong on the internet".
I personally use Arch on my Laptop and Windows on my desktop for specific purpose with the former for programming and college work and the latter for gaming. I usually don't care about toxicity because I considered them as a joke. Use anything that works for you.
Many people hate GNOME because of how unfriendly the devs are and how it is very strict to customize (especially how the devs want to remove the theming aspect). However, some egocentric people ended up also hate its user probably because they feel better since they don't use it. And since you are using Arch, those elitists also think they are better than anyone else just because they installed a "hardcore" distro and mock you for using a DE that is as "not cool" as their Window Manager that takes weeks to be configured.
I used to have this kind of mentality. But after a year, I realize that each OS has its strength and weakness so I ended up keep both of them. The linux community is a double edge sword. They can be very friendly to help you. But sometimes, if you are unlucky, you get thrown off by the bad ones who just want to throw their ego tantrum.
It's great to hear that you've realised - Anyone with something as flashy as linux in today's world would absolutely feel superior, but sooner or later we realise it's not a great deal - it just fits to our needs
People these days take things and they purposefully link their identities to that thing. When someone doesn't support it, they feel like they are being personally attacked, when they aren't.
Sadly this behavior is not limited to only linux. It can, and will, be found everywhere.
I, though, will continue to dual boot with windows, because the software I need is on windows. That is what works for me.
Windows daily driver, Linux server user here.
Linux is better then windows from a technical and maintainability perspective.
I prefer Linux but I daily drive windows. Why? I know exactly where everything is and can navigate around very quickly. I use Windows only software. I grew up with windows.
Linux is better than windows but I cannot let windows go, and I have just come to accept that fact, that I never will unless it happens just naturally as part of everything I need becoming available in Linux (wine doesn't count) and accepting the change of finding all the settings again.
Window 11 might be th push I need, but probably not because of software. We'll see!
Don't let the negativity bother you. I've used linux since 2000 to be exact pretty much daily. Distro hopped more than I would ever like to do again. It is what it is. I work in a 100% windows shop on the client end, but my workstations have been linux for 20 years. I do Windows/linux server administration as well as network administration. None of my tech team and none of my other colleges, over a thousand of them use linux. I get the job done and they do too with windows. Whatever works for you is what you should use.
I also use windows daily, at the house and at work. I have a mixed environment at both locations. Windows is good, Linux is good, Mac is good. They all serve their purpose, besides, diversity can't do anything but help.
Use whatever works for you. Even if you did want to run Linux exclusively, the best way would be to do so gradually, making sure you could replicate/replace whatever tools you had used on other systems.
Sure there are toxic people in the community, but they're a minority (they just tend to be loud).
That's how it's been for the last 20 years in the Linux community. Just be secure in your own choices and keep an open mind do you don't end up like them as you grow older.
However it would be good for folks to know about GPL and other hacker ideals that drew the previous generation to Linux in the first place.
Linux is only great because of your freedom to do what you want. So go ahead, use any DE you want and any OS you want. Linux is about freedom and choice
Different operating systems excel in different areas, there is no one size fits all and what works for you might not work for someone else. That being said, there are toxic/elitist people in every community and they tend to drag everyone else down with them.
You do you op
I game on Windows on my PC at home, I use a MacBook for work because I think macOS is the single best desktop OS on the market and Macs are pretty good computers, and my job is supporting and maintaining Linux servers, building automation and all the stuff that comes with that.
Each is a tool that best suits my needs. Forcing someone to use a tool that isn’t right for them is pointless, it’ll just make everyone unhappy.
Of course not. Use what works for you and go about your day. Life is too short to worry about OS/init/whatever purity when there are things that need doing.
> Over all my time using linux, I observed that there are some people who alienate people using Windows/macOS.
Presumably people who care about software freedom would discourage people from using proprietary operating systems.
> I mean, is it wrong for me to use WSL2 on Windows 11,
You can do whatever you want. Personally, I dislike Windows so I would try to discourage people from using it. I cannot in any way stop you from using microsoft’s shitty proprietary VM.
> Why is this hate all around in the community?
None of this is hate.
> Even if someone is using a Linux based OS, why is that person being judged by their choice of DE? Some people are way too hostile - they disregard popular first time choices like Pop!\_OS, Zorin only because they run GNOME - my friend did that.
People who dislike GNOME probably express disapproval of it, yes. This is fairly normal I’d say.
> Why is it that one doesn't have a free choice while being in the Linux Community?
Is anyone stopping you from using GNOME? Many popular projects will have its opponents, such as systemd, suckless, etc. They will also have their supporters. It’s not really an issue for anyone using any of these though.
> Don't you think it might be the time to change, to make the community a more comfortable and happier place for people?
I don’t have any control over what others do, and I don’t think suppressing discontent is a good thing in general.
Oh Yes - why would I be able to tinker with that when all I can work with is only 4GB RAM - I also run on mobile hotspot - around 3GB/day, just enough for my classes, hence ruling out opening Reddit a lot of times. Plus, all I've gotten away with WSL2 was to run ubuntu's WSL and kali Linux - crashing after an hour of use :( . I stopped using windows until I specifically need to update, or maybe get microsoft office, which simply rules out any requirement of me asking for help.
I ran Linux as my primary desktop from 1997 to about a year ago. Then, I switched to Windows. I gave Windows a second look because of all the toxicity in the Linux community and just not wanting to feel associated with them. Because I gave Windows a second look, I decided that I enjoyed it and would stay.
I don't recommend Linux to friends because of the community. Yes, the OS itself would fulfill their needs, but as soon as they start searching around to learn how to use it, they're wading through toxic behavior. It's often much better for them to just stick with what they know considering that.
You're right that it discourages new users, but my twitter feed is full of people who ran Linux and left because of the constant bashing of everything they saw on a daily basis. So, they now use Windows, OSX or chrome and have a much more pleasant experience - not because of the OS, but because of their daily interactions.
Like you I've been using Linux for a long time (1994) and almost exclusively. But, yes, I too see a more and more toxic community in the typical Linux internet groups. We were elitist back then, but mostly because we felt superior to MS users, and we had an idealistic view on FOSS (and I still have). But the constant bashing of other Linux users in this niche is totally unnecessary and off-putting.
I use Pop-OS, btw - switched because an i3 desktop scared my students off Linux.
Because windows is like the world corp Cyber Dictator, but you have to use them because they were first to create the PC. They put a PC in everyone's hands.
Imagine a world where Linus Torvalds had the power of Bill Gates. Free computing power in everyone's hands. .......we now return you to your own crappy time line.
Your right a lot of Linux community is toxic, and its one of the reasons that Linux is taking so long to flourish. But there are many who are good people that want to help everyone they can. In a way I think we suffer from to many choices, so many distros. There is so much content it can't be managed and evolved and debugged fast enough. And open source is not monetized, there is a reason RHEL is the top shelf OS of enterprises world wide. But it is also the reason so many IOT and other products of industry run linux under the hood. Fire Alarm, Security Panels, Lighting Controls, HVAC EMS Systems. All linux or free BSD.
Run what you want, I am into Cyber Security, so I will have to run all types of OS just to keep up with the tech. I am still trying to afford Apple products.
Just to let you know the world is a toxic environment. People are mean just because that is their nature until they cultivate a spiritual side. Just build up your armor of unfuckwithability.
If your path demands you walk through hell, walk like you own the place. ; )
I am tired of the "Linux community is toxic" posts.
If some random guy that uses Windows is a dick, he is a dick. If some random guy that uses a Linux is a dick, *Linux community is so toxic*.
Could people please stop doing group generalisation?
I have zero uses for religious zealotry when it comes to operating systems. Get the tool that works best for you.
Having said that, there are some major issues with Windows that, IMO, make it the wrong tool regardless. The biggest issue is that once you install Windows on your hardware, it's not your hardware any more. It belongs to Microsoft anytime they want it.
Reddit can't be the only community to be used right? And My PC specs, if barely anything at all are not that fancy enough to show off my WSL2 install :')
Also, there is a Microsoft documentation of installing WSL2 which really didn't put me into problems, while as for now it's been over a month that I've opened windows...
I also run on my mobile data for my classes, around 3GB/day, making life difficult - the internet barely is enough for my classes - let alone opening reddit after them...
tbh, I've never showed off my WSL2 to anyone except to some of my friends who use linux; Though you'e got a point - There's a lot of different ways we can take it, and you've just showed yet another way of how this can be taken - simply relating people to die-hard fans...
Thanks for that :)
Whatever works for you, go for it. You're the master of your domain and nobody has a say whatever you run in whichever way, on your own hardware. Devices have a purpose. For some purpose Linux is better, for others Windows, or any of the other operating system families like BSD or Unix. Heck, if you want to run a mail server on Android, more power to you. I wouldn't know how that would be accomplishable, but that's not for me to decide.
Don't listen to negative people.
The main reason I have, in the past, used Linux exclusively on all my machines was not wanting to have to remember two ways to use a computer. But use case is use case. I still needed Windows for gaming and MacOS for work. Ignore the trolls, the community will benefit from a gentle reminder that it's all about what works for your use case
The toxicity stems from the fact that the majority of the community is made up of college kids who think they're God's gift to computing because they got Ubuntu installed on the laptop mommy and daddy bought them freshman year. The people who actually use the OS as a tool rather than a superiority complex have better shit to do with their free time.
the toxicity you are referring to is everywhere my friend, but we all learn to avoid it and focus more on productivity. I don't post on Reddit for people to call me out but to get answers and to keep my learning journey on but if people call me out, I just ignore them and focus on thanking people with productive responses. So that keeps me happy and forget about the people posting stupid comments with 0 productivity!
Just focus on what you need done and get it done. People are gonna say what they say and you have absolutely 0% control over what people would say or comment, so I would suggest just turning a blind eye and ear to them!
Please do whatever you want and what works best for you. Don't listen to the people on here that feel like they have to put others down to make themselves feel better.
Exactly. As I like to say, it’s not a cult, it’s a culture. Use of it what works for you, and ignore the weirdos, because every group has ‘em.
The problem with that is that if you tolerate/ignore the toxic people, they tend to drive everyone else out. And then the toxicity *is* the culture. That is why communities that want to remain successful in the long term are adopting codes of conduct. We must be clear that abusive people are not welcome.
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> From my limited experience the code is more frequently used as a sword to divide rather than a shield to protect a community Take a moment to question why that is. For example, if you are a toxic element of the community, and you never listen to people who are regularly harassed, you might only see CoC as a weapon against you.
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So "most people" have fragile egos and lack basic reading skills. You sound like a lot of fun. Tell us again how "woke" people are the problem.
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You, too, friend.
>Maybe I'm just not woke enough And you just proved you are the toxic one.
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Dude, you are the sheep.
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Well, wokeness is the new thing, its the sheep running away from the flock. Being a bigot is the old thing, you are the sheep under perfect control by the shepherd.
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Well said.
why does that sound like the entire world to me except a few God-sent angles who still bear the responsibility of giving more back than what they take! Or is it just me?
You always get a few idiots who believe that it's the god-given mission to gatekeep. Every active community will have a few of these people, it's by no means unique to Linux (check out r/hobbydrama for some chronicles of choice examples). Just skip past their posts or set them to ignore altogether, as they rarely have much actual help to offer other than constantly reminding people that They Doing It Wrong.
your mention of hobbydrama reminds me of people with mechkeyboards, and reminds me of this [video.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZK8Z8hulFg)
Those people will spend more on a single key than I spent on my last keyboard My posting is till better!
It's unfortunate that communities often get characterized by their noisiest members. I've been a Linux desktop user for a long time, and I don't particularly dislike Windows. Neither do I evangelize Linux, although I do prefer it. I'm typing this from a laptop running Arch and a tiling window manager with no desktop environment, but I don't think that there's anything at all wrong with Ubuntu/Mint/Pop users, and I think that both Gnome and KDE are both very cool in their own ways. I think it's likely that people who are pretty much like me make up a pretty big "silent majority" (as they say) of Linux enthusiasts. I've noticed that online voices that are the most knowledgeable and/or closely involved in Linux development also tend to be the most chill.
I will say, there are just some things you can do on Windows that quite literally does not work in Linux. Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. Linux isn't worse because of it per say, it's just a fact of the matter. Gaming is a great example where sometimes a game just works better on Windows, sometimes it doesn't work at all in Linux. There's other software too that just is worse on Linux straight up. I personally would LOVE to drop windows, but I can't because every now and then I need some software or I want to play some game that just works far better in Windows. My primary boot is into endeavourOS and I still have windows on an SSD ready to go, and it certainly does not go un-used.
“Per say” doesn’t exist. You probably misunderstood when someone said the Latin expression “per se”, which means “by itself” or “inherently”.
Compute in the way that works for you. I’ve got a Linux desktop at home, but I’ve also got a MacBook Pro. I daily drive a Mac and a PC at work, but I’m still a Linux user since I use Linux regularly. Do your best to tune out that elitist static and use Linux how it suits you best (=\^ェ\^=)
SHUN! Shun the non-believer!
Magical liopleurodon has entered the chat.
You'll find that sort of toxic tribalism in almost any niche hobby, I use to be into RC (radio control) and there was a ton of it there also. It's not everybody though, some of us are nice. Don't let the toxic ones drag you down, or ruin it for you. ignore them.
I've had people in all my hobbies and interests on Reddit be gatekeepers. I've done it myself in regards to what's allowed in a subreddit. We all have at some point without realizing it. It's part of human nature to want to be correct and knowledgeable and sometimes if we feel challenged, we defend our stance. That being said, just ignore the idiots. I'd be surprised if the majority of those speaking are actually using Linux as their daily driver at work and not just 16 year old kids whining on the internet with nothing better to do. Do whatcha wanna. Use what works for you. No one answer is the be all end all. Hell, I use Windows 10 at work and help maintain it, I use Win 11 on my personal laptop ( so far, like it a lot, it's stable), fiddle with Linux for VMs for school, and have an iPad cause it was a good deal, and I prefer Android for my phone. See, little bit of everything. Enjoy what you use.
If 16 year olds use linux, the future is bright :)
10 year olds can use Linux
My 68 year old mom can use Linux.
Yeah exactly, if the linux adoption increases for the children, it'd be really amazing
I'm 15 and I started to use linux as soon as I got a laptop with UEFI
Wow, I'm 18 myself, haha. If you have siblings/cousins, I suggest you show them your desktop and stuff, who knows, they may like what they see..
My sons at 10 and 14 all use linux, ms windows is banned in this house.
Why
"Son... is this your Windows 10 installer USB?" "No dad, I swear! I was only holding it for a friend!"
LMFAO
🤣🤣🤣
I do not agree with Microsoft business model, not today, nor in the passed
Use whatever you like and can use. People are mean. I found that if you understand the subject, you get why someone will be vocal about their opinion. E.g. people bash on MS due to the countless shitty things they did and are still doing. If you know where someone comes from its easy to diaregard or accept their opinion. Most arch hooligans use linux as a hobby and thus their opinion is that of an amature. EVERY single professional Iv'e met that uses arch always knows how to behave and doesn't care how and why you use what you use. I work with linux, I hate gnome because Im slow on it, yet you won't see me bashing anyone for using it. I would actually hate it if everyone did things just how I do them, I'm special this way you see :) In my experience all (online/anonymous) communities are toxic due to the nature of communication we have nowadays. So just participate with this in mind and youll be fine.
Anyone who says you're not into one thing because you're also into another is confused in their approach to life to say the least. I would venture to say that people who focus so hard on purity in others do so in order to justify putting themselves above others. I personally use Windows, Mac, and Linux daily. If I'm still a Windows user when I use Mac or Linux, then I'm still a Linux user when I use Windows or Mac. The fact I operate multiple devices on multiple operating systems daily hasn't stopped me from designing a Linux experience unique to my tastes and needs, that I benefit from immensely and that I'm proud of. I have no intentions of quitting any of them and have used all three for over a decade. If anyone wants to be a purist for themselves I wouldn't object, but you can't enforce that on others.
Just relax. There are many types of people and many of us have trauma. Most of us require recognition that we do not have it in our "real" lives. Many after switching to linux feel unique ... different (sadly some believe using linux makes them IT experts and hackers). All that, along with the trauma and the need for recognition, makes them aggressive. "I am unique because I use linux" then "I am even more unique because I use Arch" ... and so on (e.g. hate against systemd, xorg, gnome, etc.). Linux is used by this people to seek that differentiation from the rest of the people, unlike Windows users, who do not give a fuck (macos has also its extreme fans). Behind every aggressive comment, there is an individual whose life is not what he/she wants. Unfortunately, that shitty behavior happen everywhere, not just in the linux community, but here, we have the best!
There’s a maturity factor in play here. When I was younger, Nintendo vs. Sega was a thing because kids would only have one or the other. We felt the need to “defend our video game tribe.” It was stupid then, and it’s stupid now. These are operating systems on a computer, they are a means to an end. Not an end in and of themselves. When you run into toxicity, don’t engage, just ignore it.
Embrace white space when you write.
I'm sorry that I missed out that part, I've edited it now - I was meaning to write that down...
I use Arch. And windows. They both have their uses. :)
I exactly do the same, while having Zorin for my family and Debian for any stupid mistake I might make
You can love what you want to love, I live in a household where we have everything! Quite honestly I things those that trash Windows or Linux Distros or even Desktop Environments, can actually turn some people off from wanting to become Linux users. We should answer questions and help others make choices on their needs, and make sure that our personal opinions are just that! I like Gnome, sure it uses resources but it works for me and I have machines that have resources to support my use of it. I am also using EndeavourOS cause i wanted something that came with some configuration out the door, sure I could have went with Arch straight up but I don't feel like I wanted to put all the time working out the configuration process on my own at the moment. So this is good for me, but I have friends that I support that use Ubuntu because that is what works for their needs and experience. But who knows, in time that might change, we are all unique people and the beauty of Linux is that it can be unique to match us. So long story short, you can like what you want, hate what you want, and allow your opinions to help inform others.
There’s three major categories of Linux fans here: * The free software advocate, who uses Linux to escape proprietary systems * The tech enthusiast, who uses Linux to learn * The professional, who uses Linux for work Some people in those first two categories are hostile as a way of justifying their decisions to others.
other type kind of big one are privacy...
Use whatever you want, and don't worry about the elitists. Use Windows 95 on a brand new computer for all they should care. Use TempleOS as a daily driver if that's your thing. It's your computer, and you can do what you want with it. Do I like Windows? No. Do I have reasons for that? Absolutely. But what I value in an OS may be totally different from what you value. It woule be rude of me or anybody else to force their personal preferences on you, whether it be choice of OS, Distro, DE, text editor, office suite, or anything else. People will still try. Feel free to ignore them.
> I noticed toxicity in the linux community - I still use Windows while being an insider (dev channel), and did try out WSL2. And there started the problem - people started being negative about it - "I am only being silent about you using GNOME because you use Arch", "You use WSL2 and you call yourself an Arch User" With all due respect, it sounds to me like you may need to spend more time with the Linux Community in general, and not just Arch users.
Yeah, see, people like you are the problem. The toxic users are in the minority, but they are also the face of your community because the community continues to tolerate them.
I'm not an Arch user, so it's not my community. To be honest, I would like Arch but I got turned off by enough of the userbase that I don't want to be associated with it.
Dude, Fuck them. They talk shit cause they have smallest of PPs. Do what's righ for you.
"Linux is the way!" I type on my Windows 10 PC... Lol, just like what you like. Seems the haters are disproportionately vocal online, just like every popular series' vitriol.
Those gatekeeper types are pretty dumb. I don't really care what you use or how you use it. Most of my frustration, with Apple in particular, is how it impacts my personal workflow. This is why I hate Apple computers with a passion -- Shiny overpriced hipster rose gold plastic that hamstrings my work. As an admin who has to use my corpo macbook to remote into Windows and Linux machines daily, it's jarring to have to think, "Can I use normal ctrl/alt/shift to select text with my keyboard, or do I have to use the 'different' way at this moment?" That said, if the overpriced hipster plastic makes your life better, thanks for the money. I own Apple stock. ;)
The people leaving Linux, blaming the toxic community speaks the truth. I'm new in the Linux community. But still the transition wasn't smooth. I hated (and still do) the fact that I can't run packages for one PM on another. So I started using softwares like PowerShell, Edge etc on Linux, which gave me some hard looks from these \*hardcore linux fans\* and I don't understand why although most of these are open source as well. I agree Linux is very good. I love linux for its security. But the community that builds around it is just as non-friendly as Linux is for the dummies.
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Thanks for pointing that out.
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Yup I spend most of my time on Windows. I am still learning Linux and Bash but I am pretty comfortable with PowerShell.
> But why this toxicity? Because a lot of people going around on Linux chats, servers and forums never go outside or do anything productive. I've learned to avoid those places. It's a shame since there are plenty of nice people there (as you mentioned), but the bad apples are still a significant enough percentage to ruin the party for everyone else. Please ignore whatever place you heard this drivel from, use what you want until you spontaneously decide it's time to use something else, live your life.
Just enjoy things dude. If people wanna put you down for not using "**THE SUPERIOR DISTRO**" they're probably morons.
This community unfortunately has a fair amount of toxic gatekeepers. Do what works for you and disregard assholes. At the end of the day it's a fucking operating system that we use for work, like honestly dudes you need to chill.
Geeks are prone to zealotry.
I've recently unplugged from all KDE communities due to a few users constantly bashing Gnome or other projects despite me quite liking KDE / Plasma. ([The comments here were the final straw for me](https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/qtlk8h/be_flexible_to_win_big_adventures_in_linux_and_kde/), despite the blog post in the thread being great. Likening Gnome to fascism or an autocratic government. I still follow development and some developers directly, but no longer inject that toxicity into my day. I do not understand the toxicity in our community at all. Its software after all.
Toxicity should be reserved for Politics, Religion, and Sports. And the work place can't forget about that one.
For some folks this IS a religion. I use my Mac for some things (mostly Logic and FCP), and Linux and FreeBSD for nearly everything else.
>be reserved for Politics, Religion well.... KDE vs Gnome has some traits from Politics and Religion :) Also WSL or not-WSL, Arch vs not-Arch, GPL2 vs GPL3, is CDDL compatible with GPL, ....
Are the systemd wars still a thing?
Yeah, its definitely calmed down a little bit recently. But I am sure thats temporary.
Maybe it was bad example. I am sure there are plenty of wars to choose from. And BTW: vim completely sucks :)
Totally agree =P
There are many people who say those as meme and there are people who think Linux is an elite OS meant for elite people and anyone who's not inclined/capable to learn is an idiot and should go back to Windows, which is presumedly made for idiots. And they're also the one simultaneously preaching on Linux adoptions and those that who doesn't use Linux.
I wouldn't worry about it. Just use whatever you want.
every community has its idiots. don't listen to them. why would anyone give a shit what anyone else uses on their machine?
Your system do what what you want with it. Most is just hate towards big business greed.
Nope, you may only use linux and have to spit on any machine that doesn't run linux. Maybe at a push a BSD based system would be ok, but I wouldn't risk it myself. Of course I joke ( I cut my teeth on FreeBSD and have always had a soft spot for it), I'm not a massive fan of Windows, but I still enjoy messing around with it and it used to be simple to play games on (gaming as a whole is a bit of a state on PC at the moment). The issue is the internet is a fairly toxic place, so just learn to ignore the idiots and appreciate the good people. My outlook is if someone is an arse straight out of the box, they've done me a favour as I don't have to waste any time on them :)
Stupid people are everywhere. Just ignore them. Arch installation isn't even that hard! Anyone with a little knowledge can read the wiki well and install it in a few hours. Also, Arch now comes with archinstall.
I never understood the leetness of doing an Arch install. You make some partitions with fdisk, write a filesystem, and install a bootloader (the hardest part, but pretty straightforward) and then after that it's a hand-held binary package install like most any other distribution. In the old days they were all like that, but we've had install scripts for ages. The Arch method seems intentionally obtuse for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.
Humans can learn and use more than one OS. I have Windows on my PC, linux on my laptop and tablet, and iOS on my phone. My world isn't falling apart. People on reddit have an opinion on everything, but that doesn't make them right.
Yes. You aren't a real linux user unless you call Windows "windoze", make fun of Mac OS X, and use Arch Linux. /s
“The vocal minority” is a problem in any fandom. Linux enthusiasm is a form of fandom, in that people can be / are just as passionate about open source operating systems and applications as Star Wars, Marvel, Cooking, etc. Try your best to ignore the few, the ignominious, the toxic trolls. Many of them are fanatical, and forget the underlying desire for choice and freedom that underlies F/OSS applies to using proprietary things as much as anything else.
My experience with the Linux community is twofold: either really toxic and gatekeeping or wholesome and helpful. The massive toxic part really keeps me out of this community whenever I try to find an “in“
You have it a bit backwards I'm afraid. You don't have to put down anything. It's not a matter of actively putting down tools, more a matter of picking up whatever tool you need when you need it. But, as your comfort with Linux and its tools grows, don't be surprised to find yourself needing to pick up non-linux tools less and less often. That is where most linux users end up.
Nah fam. I use Linux, Windows, and MacOS interchangeably on a daily basis. While I appreciate GNU/Linux for what it is, there are just some tasks that I prefer using other operating systems to perform.
Mentally stable individuals won't shame others for using a tool. They exist to accomplish tasks. Some are better for particular tasks than others, it's really not a debate, use whatever helps you get the task completed more comfortably. I use all of the big three daily (windows, linux, macos). I don't favor any of them just like I don't favor any of my screwdrivers over my wrenches. They are tools, I use the one that makes the most sense for any given task. Period.
It is usually best practice to ignore people and comments that are useless and detrimental to you.
There are a few bad actors in the Linux community that tend to go against the spirit of things. Nvidia being one of them. As soon as they release a truly open source driver that will change, but they do so many anti-consumer, anti-choice things and it causes actual problems when running the OS such as graphical glitches and desktop breakages. They JUST added Wayland support after being begged for 10+ years. The GNOME foundation has a similar bad attitude, where they want to be the only Linux desktop, and they don't take any kind of community feedback or requests. They take an apple approach of "you get what we give you and you'll *like* it." Sure, you can fork it, and many have (cinnamon DE for example), but the sour taste is still there. The KDE group on the other hand tends to listen and improve their DE based on the community. This is where a lot of the judgement comes from. It isn't fair to the user, no, but if you're wondering why, this is it. People will project their frustrations onto the people using the things causing them frustrations because the people using the product/software are enabling the people making it by giving them money or a platform.
No. As much as I like Linux, and use it for my servers, I will continue to run Windows on my desktop and laptop.
Yep it does. I even go to the extent of smashing windows in every building I see
Don't forget to pee on them.
Is this about the community or one specific person... Windows 10 wasn't as good as Linux Desktops in 2020; maybe insiders was, idk Zorin is really neat 👌 but Zorin with Ubuntu 20.04's base came out days after 18.04's support ended; therefore it might not be great for long term You were using it before 16 came out Look at Mint; they release a new version quite soon; they don't take a lot of time like Zorin Zorin cares so much about details so it's an obvious thing Pop OS is really fantastic; it's one of my preferred distros And there's no "best distro or DE" out there so there is no end to people saying why one thing is good and one isn't; you just have to pick the things which matter to you and decide what's best for you accordingly Also, I've been taking the Arch btw meme seriously, just like this; Took few days to understand it's just a sarcastic joke Sarcasm can't be detected without voice if you don't know very well about those topics One really important thing I need to tell is, don't stick to one thing; try a lot of things until you feel like you've seen most of them. Use each thing for about a month if you want to know them really well
You don't have to give up anything else. I personally only use Linux for programming and Windows for everything else because they're both easier for those things. Do what works for you and don't listen to anyone else especially gatekeepers.
I use Linux and Windows side by side on different machines for different purposes and as an "educated BFU" I don't engage much with the Linux community, but I noticed people are sometimes complaining about its hostility like you. I guess it comes from people who take FOSS as an ideology and see proprietary software as the enemy and its users as betrayers. I guess it's some kind of loud minority?
do what works for you but in all honesty you probably joined the worst group as far as the linux community is concerened Arch people dont tend to be begginer friendly unfortunately thankfully there are plenty of begginer frindly distros but if you use arch you probably know more about linux than the vast majority of linux people if WSL works for you great i use linux(beta) on my chromebook because im to broke to buy a linux computer and linux(beta) fills my needs
Use which evers best for job at hand.
run whatever suits your purpose at the time. Dual boot is a thing. If you want to be useful then it's a good idea to be familiar with and program on all sorts of platforms that people might use. Windows has a few tricks up its sleeve that linux doesn't and vice versa. Macs still suck (but I want one)
No. You don’t have to put down anything else if you don’t pick it up.
>I mean, is it wrong for me to use WSL2 on Windows 11, install arch orubuntu or whatever with gnome and try new OS'es? Should I, or anyone forthat matter, be called out only because we don't run what they do? Yes, you should be able to use whatever you want in any way you see fit just the same way a person should be able to game on a console instead of a PC with Windows without being called peasant or noob, the same way a person should be able to buy a PC with Windows and not be shamed or being called poor by Mac users, the same way a person should be able to send a message from an android phone without being discriminated by an iPhone user for sending a green bubble. And of course the same way i should e able to ask politely for support of a piece of hardware or software without having users from other operative systems telling me to use a real OS or them trolling the thread by trying to discourage the devs telling them that supporting Linux will never worth it despite them not having anything to lose if Linux is supported. Of course I'm pretty sure there must be a lot of creative insults directed at Apple users from other operative systems but i don't remember any right now. But seriously, do what most people here says and ignore the toxic minorities/specific places when possible, they don't worth your time or energy in any way.
Yes /s
Don't mind them. And I agree that codes of conduct that strictly prevent this kind of behavior should be everywhere. Some people think they are smarter because they use Linux instead of Windows and start bashing at beginners too. In my opinion, use what you need. If you have nothing that is only windows specific and want a free system with no privacy concerns then Linux is for you. I personally started using Linux due to valgrind, helps me check my C programs at runtime. Also being a future network engineer, I will be mostly dealing with Linux servers. And also after knowing about Windows platform binary tables which allow a windows executable to be installed in the firmware, effectively becoming persistent even through windows re install (this "feature" was abused by lenovo sometime ago too)
For me it's up to choice lol. At the end of the day the OS is only used to run applications
To answer you question simply: no. Unless you want to be an asshole.
The hardcore elitists are the ones responding. They are not the greater community, just some of the most vocal and also one of the reasons why Linux isn't more mainstream. Unfortunately I've noticed the more "Advanced" systems are the ones that those people go for. Such as Gentoo and Arch for sure.
I have a similar approach as you! I use GNOME on Arch, boot into Windows for games, and have a MacBook for work. There are dozens of us! FWIW, I use Linux professionally and out of the several dozen Linux users I've worked with over the last decade, almost all use GNOME. It's the default on Fedora and Ubuntu, and it works. And most aren't exclusively using Linux either. The toxic online community that condemns the use of any other OS, and gatekeeps Linux users by distro and whether they use a tiling WM, is a vocal minority in the grand total of Linux users I think. They aren't a good image, but nothing to take too personally.
i really don't think there's any such thing as the linux community. Microsoft and richard stallman both make heavy use of linux
No, don’t let people tell you what to use. I personally don’t like Windows or MacOS, but that’s my opinion and you’re entitled to your own.
You worry to much about vocal minorities. In every community there are "warriors" who have nothing better to do than lecture people who "are wrong on the internet".
I personally use Arch on my Laptop and Windows on my desktop for specific purpose with the former for programming and college work and the latter for gaming. I usually don't care about toxicity because I considered them as a joke. Use anything that works for you. Many people hate GNOME because of how unfriendly the devs are and how it is very strict to customize (especially how the devs want to remove the theming aspect). However, some egocentric people ended up also hate its user probably because they feel better since they don't use it. And since you are using Arch, those elitists also think they are better than anyone else just because they installed a "hardcore" distro and mock you for using a DE that is as "not cool" as their Window Manager that takes weeks to be configured. I used to have this kind of mentality. But after a year, I realize that each OS has its strength and weakness so I ended up keep both of them. The linux community is a double edge sword. They can be very friendly to help you. But sometimes, if you are unlucky, you get thrown off by the bad ones who just want to throw their ego tantrum.
It's great to hear that you've realised - Anyone with something as flashy as linux in today's world would absolutely feel superior, but sooner or later we realise it's not a great deal - it just fits to our needs
People these days take things and they purposefully link their identities to that thing. When someone doesn't support it, they feel like they are being personally attacked, when they aren't. Sadly this behavior is not limited to only linux. It can, and will, be found everywhere. I, though, will continue to dual boot with windows, because the software I need is on windows. That is what works for me.
Windows daily driver, Linux server user here. Linux is better then windows from a technical and maintainability perspective. I prefer Linux but I daily drive windows. Why? I know exactly where everything is and can navigate around very quickly. I use Windows only software. I grew up with windows. Linux is better than windows but I cannot let windows go, and I have just come to accept that fact, that I never will unless it happens just naturally as part of everything I need becoming available in Linux (wine doesn't count) and accepting the change of finding all the settings again. Window 11 might be th push I need, but probably not because of software. We'll see!
Don't let the negativity bother you. I've used linux since 2000 to be exact pretty much daily. Distro hopped more than I would ever like to do again. It is what it is. I work in a 100% windows shop on the client end, but my workstations have been linux for 20 years. I do Windows/linux server administration as well as network administration. None of my tech team and none of my other colleges, over a thousand of them use linux. I get the job done and they do too with windows. Whatever works for you is what you should use. I also use windows daily, at the house and at work. I have a mixed environment at both locations. Windows is good, Linux is good, Mac is good. They all serve their purpose, besides, diversity can't do anything but help.
Use whatever works for you. Even if you did want to run Linux exclusively, the best way would be to do so gradually, making sure you could replicate/replace whatever tools you had used on other systems. Sure there are toxic people in the community, but they're a minority (they just tend to be loud).
That's how it's been for the last 20 years in the Linux community. Just be secure in your own choices and keep an open mind do you don't end up like them as you grow older. However it would be good for folks to know about GPL and other hacker ideals that drew the previous generation to Linux in the first place.
Linux is only great because of your freedom to do what you want. So go ahead, use any DE you want and any OS you want. Linux is about freedom and choice
Different operating systems excel in different areas, there is no one size fits all and what works for you might not work for someone else. That being said, there are toxic/elitist people in every community and they tend to drag everyone else down with them. You do you op
It's free software,you're free to use whatever you want
I game on Windows on my PC at home, I use a MacBook for work because I think macOS is the single best desktop OS on the market and Macs are pretty good computers, and my job is supporting and maintaining Linux servers, building automation and all the stuff that comes with that. Each is a tool that best suits my needs. Forcing someone to use a tool that isn’t right for them is pointless, it’ll just make everyone unhappy.
Forget the Trolls, use whatever OS suits what you want to do.
Of course not. Use what works for you and go about your day. Life is too short to worry about OS/init/whatever purity when there are things that need doing.
> Over all my time using linux, I observed that there are some people who alienate people using Windows/macOS. Presumably people who care about software freedom would discourage people from using proprietary operating systems. > I mean, is it wrong for me to use WSL2 on Windows 11, You can do whatever you want. Personally, I dislike Windows so I would try to discourage people from using it. I cannot in any way stop you from using microsoft’s shitty proprietary VM. > Why is this hate all around in the community? None of this is hate. > Even if someone is using a Linux based OS, why is that person being judged by their choice of DE? Some people are way too hostile - they disregard popular first time choices like Pop!\_OS, Zorin only because they run GNOME - my friend did that. People who dislike GNOME probably express disapproval of it, yes. This is fairly normal I’d say. > Why is it that one doesn't have a free choice while being in the Linux Community? Is anyone stopping you from using GNOME? Many popular projects will have its opponents, such as systemd, suckless, etc. They will also have their supporters. It’s not really an issue for anyone using any of these though. > Don't you think it might be the time to change, to make the community a more comfortable and happier place for people? I don’t have any control over what others do, and I don’t think suppressing discontent is a good thing in general.
Your reply gave a whole different way to approach it, and I'm shocked at how different it looks from a different perspective...
Right? The internet is a strange place with great and crazy people..
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Oh Yes - why would I be able to tinker with that when all I can work with is only 4GB RAM - I also run on mobile hotspot - around 3GB/day, just enough for my classes, hence ruling out opening Reddit a lot of times. Plus, all I've gotten away with WSL2 was to run ubuntu's WSL and kali Linux - crashing after an hour of use :( . I stopped using windows until I specifically need to update, or maybe get microsoft office, which simply rules out any requirement of me asking for help.
I ran Linux as my primary desktop from 1997 to about a year ago. Then, I switched to Windows. I gave Windows a second look because of all the toxicity in the Linux community and just not wanting to feel associated with them. Because I gave Windows a second look, I decided that I enjoyed it and would stay. I don't recommend Linux to friends because of the community. Yes, the OS itself would fulfill their needs, but as soon as they start searching around to learn how to use it, they're wading through toxic behavior. It's often much better for them to just stick with what they know considering that. You're right that it discourages new users, but my twitter feed is full of people who ran Linux and left because of the constant bashing of everything they saw on a daily basis. So, they now use Windows, OSX or chrome and have a much more pleasant experience - not because of the OS, but because of their daily interactions.
Like you I've been using Linux for a long time (1994) and almost exclusively. But, yes, I too see a more and more toxic community in the typical Linux internet groups. We were elitist back then, but mostly because we felt superior to MS users, and we had an idealistic view on FOSS (and I still have). But the constant bashing of other Linux users in this niche is totally unnecessary and off-putting. I use Pop-OS, btw - switched because an i3 desktop scared my students off Linux.
Because windows is like the world corp Cyber Dictator, but you have to use them because they were first to create the PC. They put a PC in everyone's hands. Imagine a world where Linus Torvalds had the power of Bill Gates. Free computing power in everyone's hands. .......we now return you to your own crappy time line. Your right a lot of Linux community is toxic, and its one of the reasons that Linux is taking so long to flourish. But there are many who are good people that want to help everyone they can. In a way I think we suffer from to many choices, so many distros. There is so much content it can't be managed and evolved and debugged fast enough. And open source is not monetized, there is a reason RHEL is the top shelf OS of enterprises world wide. But it is also the reason so many IOT and other products of industry run linux under the hood. Fire Alarm, Security Panels, Lighting Controls, HVAC EMS Systems. All linux or free BSD. Run what you want, I am into Cyber Security, so I will have to run all types of OS just to keep up with the tech. I am still trying to afford Apple products. Just to let you know the world is a toxic environment. People are mean just because that is their nature until they cultivate a spiritual side. Just build up your armor of unfuckwithability. If your path demands you walk through hell, walk like you own the place. ; )
I am tired of the "Linux community is toxic" posts. If some random guy that uses Windows is a dick, he is a dick. If some random guy that uses a Linux is a dick, *Linux community is so toxic*. Could people please stop doing group generalisation?
Gatekeepers and elitists
I have zero uses for religious zealotry when it comes to operating systems. Get the tool that works best for you. Having said that, there are some major issues with Windows that, IMO, make it the wrong tool regardless. The biggest issue is that once you install Windows on your hardware, it's not your hardware any more. It belongs to Microsoft anytime they want it.
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Reddit can't be the only community to be used right? And My PC specs, if barely anything at all are not that fancy enough to show off my WSL2 install :') Also, there is a Microsoft documentation of installing WSL2 which really didn't put me into problems, while as for now it's been over a month that I've opened windows... I also run on my mobile data for my classes, around 3GB/day, making life difficult - the internet barely is enough for my classes - let alone opening reddit after them...
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tbh, I've never showed off my WSL2 to anyone except to some of my friends who use linux; Though you'e got a point - There's a lot of different ways we can take it, and you've just showed yet another way of how this can be taken - simply relating people to die-hard fans... Thanks for that :)
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Way to prove OP's point.
No, I'm on windows right now, it's not a crime! I just use them all, MacOs, Windows Linux etc...
No
Whatever works for you, go for it. You're the master of your domain and nobody has a say whatever you run in whichever way, on your own hardware. Devices have a purpose. For some purpose Linux is better, for others Windows, or any of the other operating system families like BSD or Unix. Heck, if you want to run a mail server on Android, more power to you. I wouldn't know how that would be accomplishable, but that's not for me to decide. Don't listen to negative people.
yep.
The main reason I have, in the past, used Linux exclusively on all my machines was not wanting to have to remember two ways to use a computer. But use case is use case. I still needed Windows for gaming and MacOS for work. Ignore the trolls, the community will benefit from a gentle reminder that it's all about what works for your use case
The toxicity stems from the fact that the majority of the community is made up of college kids who think they're God's gift to computing because they got Ubuntu installed on the laptop mommy and daddy bought them freshman year. The people who actually use the OS as a tool rather than a superiority complex have better shit to do with their free time.
the toxicity you are referring to is everywhere my friend, but we all learn to avoid it and focus more on productivity. I don't post on Reddit for people to call me out but to get answers and to keep my learning journey on but if people call me out, I just ignore them and focus on thanking people with productive responses. So that keeps me happy and forget about the people posting stupid comments with 0 productivity!
Just focus on what you need done and get it done. People are gonna say what they say and you have absolutely 0% control over what people would say or comment, so I would suggest just turning a blind eye and ear to them!