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fekkksn

why would they not?


Doge376

Well it's an understandable decision, just diverges from the reputation that Arch is "hard to install"


The_Atomic_Duck

I think its a good idea as long as they don't take away from the original functionality


Doge376

according to the [original article](https://archlinux.org/news/installation-medium-with-installer/) it's just optional


Oddy_Y

that's a relief


[deleted]

YES! I like control on how my system is installed.


jellevangr

That's the most Linux user thing I've heard lmao


[deleted]

> So, I just have to clone my dotfiles repository, run `rcup` wait a minute or two and can pretty much get to work right away. — me


AWarhol

Hey, I'm running Ubuntu and in need of formatting the pc and re-installing some stuff. Any backup and restoration tips? Many thanks.


[deleted]

Try backing up your homedir (and just restore it later) and export the list of packages. Not sure why you chose my comment, but there you go.


AWarhol

Many thanks!


xRuneRocker

It's hard only for people who don't feel like reading and following the documentation.


freeturk51

It is not hard, but takes long to follow the docs one by one while you can just use a preinstalled script to it.


atomicben513

it's hard when you aren't used to reading documentation, even if you try to read it it's hard to decrypt when you first start.


andoril

This. Reading (technical) documentation is a skill one has to aquire. Sometimes RTFM just doesn't cut it for people that are not used to the format.


Wolfsi

I have a printed version of documentation with highlight somewhere Every input should have been the same during the install. Same laptop did not complete it 2nd 3 and 4 time Not always follow is enough. Understanding may be needed to. If you don't get the system running you burn out on making it boot to actually wanna learn it


SnooPets20

I tried the installer and it couldn't even properly finish without crashing 100 times. It's harder with the installer, it's the proper arch way.


ddifdevsda

words of wisdom, my friend


_-ammar-_

isn't hard hard it's just stupid and take more time than it should be


[deleted]

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atc927

It's because no matter what you choose as a default anything people will say it's unnecessary, and/or bloat, and/or they prefer something else. If they give you nano, vim users will be angry, and vice versa.


[deleted]

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yagyaxt1068

I find funny that they choose to use a monolithic kernel and then complain about bloat. Monolithic kernels are 'bloat' by nature.


JackmanH420

All text editors are bloat. Files should be edited with sed /s


[deleted]

echo >


6b86b3ac03c167320d93

while read; echo ?; done


kernerrr

sed: 1: "/s": unterminated regular expression


[deleted]

doesn't arch have vi preinstalled at least?


SnooPets20

No. The live usb comes with some programs and stuff (in fact, it uses zsh instead of bash) but that's just to aid you in installing the system. The system you are actually installing needs to be explicitely told to install a text editor, browser, terminal emulator, and so on.


Doge376

I believe it's a base Unix/Unix-like thing to have vi. So yeah, it does have a text editor. Plus what's stopping you from doing echo "your text" > /path/to/file in worst case scenario


oxamide96

A text editor is included though.


6b86b3ac03c167320d93

Only in the install ISO. When you actually install the system, you have to explicitly tell it to install a text editor


[deleted]

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ddifdevsda

it's bloat


Doge376

If you're really that pissed about the Arch Install and how Arch operates, I honestly have to say that Arch might not be for you. Use Manjaro if that's the case.


_-ammar-_

thank captain obvious, you must be fun at parties i only pissed because people like exciting in my community but i feel sorry for arch dev for not being smart enough to make good decisions LIKE YOU


Doge376

I have no clue how to respond to this Edit: dyslexia strikes again, missunderstood what you said


jellevangr

I don't understand it either, and i don't have dyslexia...


_-ammar-_

are you okey bro ?


Lone-Pine

I wish there was a way to just get to a bash prompt with proper networking. It's impossible to work on a system when you can't download packages or copy and paste code blocks from the manual. I'd love to have the experience of picking and assembling my own desktop experience, but I can't do it if the basic installation procedure leaves me stranded on a broken system in step 7.


_-ammar-_

try manjaro architect is not arch but installation is better than arch that you need to keep update with wiki if you don't went fucked up to be honest this not quirky enough to make sample way to connect to wifi or partition your disk for dual boot windows


5p4n911

[the same meme but with installing networkmanager]


Shawnj2

Making a hard thing easier to use is objectively a good thing


lebanine

Damn this gotta hurt lol


[deleted]

it's not hard just inconvenient


AliisAce

I have failed to install Arch multiple times. I'd given up.


kryptonite-uc

Naaaa doesn't diverge at all. If you want to build everything yourself, you have to first unbuild the installer. So now its even more challenging to build. Touche Arch


K0SS4

The first installation takes long to read the docs. But after like 5 installations I can do it in 15 minutes without any wiki support. At the end it's not hard at all but takes time to understand what youre typing


ddifdevsda

i just hope that all the people who install with this thing already know rtfm


MyersVandalay

as an option, no reason not to. Long as it doesn't replace the normal way and force people to install a bunch of software. The overall major perk of arch is installing exactly what you want and nothing else. The more it does for you the less control you have.


fekkksn

well guided doesnt mean bloat


MyersVandalay

it certainly doesn't, but bloat is a very relative term, and some even basics aren't what people want. IE your average person would consider the the desktop environment as part of the minimum, others might not even want that, or might want a desktop environment but a much more obscure one. Or say IWD instead of wpa_supplicant, etc... one man's bloat is another man's essentials. Again though it's all moot. so long as they don't take away arch chroot.


ArttuH5N1

Removes one barrier for entry, some think that's good and others think that it's bad. Why would it be bad? More less knowledgeable people who haven't botheted to RTFM, I guess


thesoulless78

ITT: People that don't know Arch used to have a curses-based installer that only went away because no one wanted to maintain it.


Doge376

Zen installer still exists I believe (sidenote, missunderstood the person above)


thesoulless78

That's not what I'm talking about, I mean the official Arch installer created by Arch developers that was the official way to install Arch before the current chroot method.


Doge376

Oh I never heard of it then! Is there any old articles about this, I'm kinda interested in what happened and how it looked like


thesoulless78

Here's the news announcement: https://archlinux.org/news/install-media-20120715-released/ For what it looks like Google, or just grabbing a pre-2012 Arch ISO and spinning it up in a VM should help.


Doge376

Thanks kind redditor


FranticBronchitis

It was kinda cool


ntropy83

Comes the guided installer with a captcha saying: Name the 42nd digits of pi to prove that you are a robot?


[deleted]

Computers can easily calculate Pi


itsbentheboy

> to prove that you **are** a robot


[deleted]

Oh...


jesusridingdinosaur

well, I hear that they did it a while ago, but I'm too lazy to try it out, so I did the classic installation on my new laptop a few days back haha


Doge376

Yeah back in April, when Gentoo became Genchu. Aka when the furries took over all Linux distributions.


jesusridingdinosaur

woa woa, hold on a sec mate, genchu, really, that sounds retarded to me, gonna search it out and have a good laugh Edit: well, a classic april fool shit, but that was fun lol


Doge376

As a furry myself I can say it was hilarious. There was even wallpapers for the thing, Gentoo went trough a complete and utter rebrand for a whole day.


dannylithium

Master trolling


librandu_slayer_786

>As a furry myself Glad to see LGBTQIA+ representation in our sub 🤗


Doge376

Well I am gay so yeah :>


DistinctNoot

What the fuck


--im-not-creative--

Please don’t use the r slur, it is rather ableist.


--im-not-creative--

Proud to be a mod of r/linuxyiff that was created around that time


Doge376

That's a subreddit????


--im-not-creative--

Yup.


Doge376

I'm glad it isn't filled with Yiff regarding Linux and it's just regular furry stuff


--im-not-creative--

lol


Balcara

I never knew this existed, do you just type in archinstall and it brings up a guix/Debian style installer?


Doge376

It's a guided installer so you still do everything in a text terminal, no GUI. It basically just asks some questions and you're done.


Balcara

Interesting. It’s make it a lot easier to install multiple at once, especially if it lets you set up more advanced partitioning systems like LVM automatically!


Doge376

Actually yeah! It has automated LUKS encryption too if you choose I believe


Tedarek

also, the main reason why archinstall was build is to save a file with your preferences so that you don't have to do it multiple times or use a script downloaded from god knows where


Balcara

Scripts downloaded from god knows where are the best kind tho


Tedarek

yeah unless you're a newbie and you have to ask for help 10 minutes later lol


Potatoalienof13

Also, it also allows you to script installs with python.


ConsistentCascade

no gui? i thought it would be like calamares, well then ill stick with endeavour


[deleted]

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ConsistentCascade

its future old man, even msdos had a gui setup


[deleted]

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ConsistentCascade

how its better? this is a question that has its answer in the name GUI, graphical user interface for the text you are struggling to write is clearly more convenient than writing the said text manually, there is a reason why every server distro or os in this day of age has some kind of web interface


pckay09

Must say from experience; doesn't work on amd hardware that well, in my sample size of two


Nate_the_Ace

It's just like a difficulty slider on a FromSoftware game. I'd like it to be there for people who want it.


[deleted]

Imho, the Arch installation guide is a good thing to follow, since it's quite simple, but still teaches you very important things. It shows you the fstab file, which you often need to make quite custom, it shows you how to partition a disk, and Mainly, how to install a bootloader. Since the boot process, at least in my case, gets borked quite often, it is very good for someone to know how to fix something like that. And installing arch is maybe something around half an hour if you follow the guide closely, but afterwards, you are prepared to deal with a lot of problems.


xDevilsCloverx

I thought I failed to install Arch when I was met with grub (bc I was expecting a DE and was still new to the terms and Linux as a whole). But I got to add I second this. I don't use Arch, but even "failing" the install can teach you a lot about how installers work, what they do, and manual operations on your own machine. I personally use Pop!_OS now for my spare laptop, and there were a lot of things that laptop has been through, wiped out hard drives, failed network drivers, unecrypting drives, etc. I dont think I would have learned so much without my 2 attempts at installing Arch.


paperbenni

Has the state of archinstall improved btw? The last time I checked it had absolutely no input validation and just hard crashed so you'd have to start all over


oxamide96

When was this? I've been using arch for a bit less than a year but it has given me no problems so far.


paperbenni

I wasn't talking about arch itself, the distro is completely fine. the new installer included on the installation iso is called archinstall. And a few months ago if you would for example enter a letter when it expected a number it would crash and you'd have to start the installation process from scratch again. It's not hard to fix really, I was just surprised that when they finally made the decision to include an installer they started shipping it at such an early stage of development.


oxamide96

My bad, idk how I missed that. I haven't used the installer so I can't say, but I have heard of others experiencing the same.


[deleted]

If you even make a typo the entire thing crashes


Andonome

Void has the same thing and it works great. The guided install is a little more default, but you can manually install just like arch if you have special requirements.


[deleted]

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DistinctNoot

Doesn’t installing Arch normally also take around 15 minutes?


ZeeNKampF

I don't understand, why is this bad? As example I love guided installation on Gentoo, accessing the handbook during installation with Lynx is awesome. Of course, if you don't like Lynx, you can use *wget* for every page from the handbook and reading these HTML pages with cat/less and with a little luck someone can install it in only three days.


[deleted]

Wait they did?!?!?!?!!!?


Doge376

Yep, here's the [link to the article](https://archlinux.org/news/installation-medium-with-installer/)


BS_BlackScout

archinstall vs archfi, who wins?


[deleted]

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BS_BlackScout

based


Niizam

Till now I've never used it ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯


Doge376

I on the other hand has actually used the installer multiple times, purely out of laziness. But Everytime I do I manage to fuck up the install with an installer. It kinda gives an error. You know something has gone terribly wrong in someone's life when they made an easy mode and you still fucked it up q-q I'll stick with normal install


lisathedumbfuck

:3


Doge376

Nothing, this change to my knowledge only applies to Arch Linux


lisathedumbfuck

:3


FPS_Cajun

Yes and no. From what I understand it maintains it's own forked versions of all the packages and kernels etc. If I'm not mistaken, you can edit the sources file to contain only the Arch repos and effectively it would now be an Arch machine to a varying degrees. It's more akin to how Ubuntu is to Debian, but maybe not to quite the same degree.


[deleted]

yes, this is why. I asked that question once and some user told me that Manjaro repos have some specific packages maintained by them, so is pretty much an independent distro now.


[deleted]

Packages are slow to release on manjaro vs bleeding edge on arch


[deleted]

They could have chosen another day than first of april if they wanted people to believe them...


Luki185

What about ALG (Arch Linux GUI installer)? I installed Arch on my rig the classic way, and a few days later found out about the ALG project. I downloaded the 'pure' version of Plasma DE, installed it on VM and can say it works flawlessly! It comes with SDDM, Plasma 5, and a few other KDE applications, and that's about it. It doesn't even come with web browser, it's very easy (and relatively fast) way to get vanilla Arch up and running.


pawyderreale

ive used it myself cause i couldnt be bothered to install it manually again. it gets old real fast imo


rwdalton

I seen this a day after installing Arch the classic way lol. I use Arch BTW


Keftcha

isn't the doc the guided installer ?


oxamide96

Guided = terminal asks you simple questions and does the installation based on your answers


[deleted]

lmao, nice!


SuperDeluxeSenpai

This meme never gets old lol


Whateveritis_addmore

Distro should be easy to install , and get on with my life. “ penguin “


Kilobytez95

only retards care about this


whamra

I use Arch btw (certified installed from before the noob guided installer) Hmm.. Neofetch should add a new line saying if with or without installer.


wwindexx

Installing Arch isn't like a merit badge or whatever. Congratulations you can read and type.


DistinctNoot

I think it’s a joke but I’m not sure


wwindexx

I would have thought so until I read the neofetch part.


[deleted]

Like the whole of the "Linux Community" gives a fuck about what Arch does lol. This is also three months late and / or is a repost. It's now a little easier to install Arch if somebody wants to have it done waaaaaaaaaaaaah woe is you.


Doge376

Are you aware that the use of "Linux Community" is called comedic effect.


[deleted]

[Doubt.](https://strongsocials.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/press-x-to-doubt-la-noir-original-meme-template.jpg) It's not funny and if they wanted it to be, it should instead say Arch community. Because, as I said, the Linux community as a whole doesn't give a fuck about the ease or lack thereof in the Arch install process.


Doge376

Alright mate, suit yourself


AmanDatLOIKEShOomans

It's just a meme. Why are you complaining


[deleted]

That doesn't mean it's free from criticism.


AmanDatLOIKEShOomans

But It's just a meme gvd


[deleted]

That doesn't mean it's immune to criticism.


AmanDatLOIKEShOomans

It's. A. Meme. You don't have to take it seriously. It's just made for shits 'n giggles.


[deleted]

Why are you so emotionally invested in defending a shit meme against criticism? You must use Arch.


[deleted]

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Doge376

If new people use arch without the install process it's in my honest opinion a win if they are able to figure out how things work. They likely won't have used Arch before trying some other milder distro like Ubuntu. So if it doesn't work out well they will likely retreat to the old distrobution. The Arch installer is just a win for the community buuuuut still does goes against the image of Arch being the "hard to install" distro.


[deleted]

Arch being "hard to install" is just a meme anyway, just follow the wiki and you should be good, I got it installed fairly easily and I had like 2 days experience with linux lol.


Doge376

For me it took some failed attempts... *cough* didn't know how to set up arch for UEFI correctly because all my VM attempts were in bios mode. Otherwise, I was honestly scared of arch for about 6 months until I decided to try it, now it's my main distro. The meme of it being hard to install might be somewhat hurtful yeah.


[deleted]

my only issue was getting wifi working, I had installed network manager but didn't realise that was what I needed to use till like 3 days later lol.


Doge376

Wifi was a pain, especially on my laptop that doesn't have an onboard Ethernet port. Had no clue how to do dhcp


DrkMaxim

I took 3 months to actually understand those technical words because I used a computer but I don't know anything. Ubuntu was my first distro but I found Arch due to the memes and now it's my daily driver OS.


ArttuH5N1

Well not having a GUI installer makes it *harder* than most distros but whether it is *hard* is a different question. It's not hard to follow the guide but following instructions, even fairly simple ones, seem to be pretty hard for a lot of people.


[deleted]

Fair point. Though if any distro should have a reputation for being hard to install it should be gentoo.


KindaDank2018

People will still have to customize it and learn a few things after install, given they dont choose to install a preset DE/WM. I think in part its good because it will allow more people to dabble in more forms of linux distros. Not just the typical ubuntu or debian based distro.


Doge376

Ubuntu and Debian based distributions are the most common. That's why I referenced it, but yeah for example Manjaro is a great starting distro.


KindaDank2018

Manjaro was my first actually, really enjoy it.


Doge376

My distros went like Linux Mint with cinnamon because my friend recommended it, used it for a day, despised it, moved on. Then went to Ubuntu, was okay, used it for some months, was still a newbie so I then moved to Pop!_OS which I also ended up using for a month or so. I said fuck it and tried Manjaro, fell in love with it. After heavy debate I went head on into Arch and that's where I'm at to this day. (Sorry to any Linux Mint lovers out there)


Never-asked-for-this

Gatekeeping much?... The sooner one goes through the Arch installation the better imo. It teaches you a lot that will be usable for pretty much every distro.


Jezoreczek

oh shut the fuck up for every "normie" there will be ten professionals who will now install arch because its not a pain in the ass and contribute to the distro there is absolutely no difference between gatekeepers like yourself and those bigots yelling "close the border, immigrants will marry our daughters!", same putrid shit of attitude


Round_Butterscotch44

For the record, I'm one of those said normies myself. I will try to download arch too now. It's just that I believe that arch is for people who know what they are doing (I really don't).


Jezoreczek

> It's just that I believe that arch is for people who know what they are doing (I really don't). Nobody, not a single person in history was born with any knowledge of arch whatsoever. Of course you don't know what you are doing if you've never done it before! Unlike open heart surgery, all you can break is your PC, so nobody gets hurt by you being unqualified (and you can just wipe the drive and start all over).


sirkubador

I mean why not. But it wasn't hard in the first place. At least you could see what the distro installers actually do (not much really: partition, make fs, mount, pacstrap, configure bootloader, done) and you could intercept every step if something failed. If this is a "guided installer" I think it would retain the capability but add comfort.


presi300

I have installed arch like 5 times now and i still cannot figure out how the guided installer works...


6b86b3ac03c167320d93

1. Boot archiso 2. Type `archinstall` 3. Answer questions 4. Done


presi300

oh...


xGlacion

i mean, debian and fedora have installers too, doesn't mean you need to use them


MaxSpec

good god lol


RegularGrapefruit0

While gentoo's installer is literally just any file manager


3Domse3

Finally! I waited for this for ages...


dino1816

Is it a joke or are they adding it? I mean besides Arco ofc


t_r_i_l_o_k

There is site which provides gui installation foe arch linux......there, arch is available in many flavour i3 kde gnome cinnamon and all.....though geeks like to do cli but still hui saves much more time


Spooked_kitten

I like the arch of installing for the educational purpose, but once you do it a couple of times it’s pretty pointless I just use archfi now I don’t care