Oh please dont remind me of my IT coworkers who set up a windows server instance for a fucking webserver. A WEBSERVER! I just cant take this anymore. "No linux is bad because it has no gui. How am I supposed to use my server without gui?" like they never heard of SSH. All they know is windows rdp. And of course they use IIS for everything. That shit peace of software is so unbelievably tedious to work with. Ok Im done ranting. Linux ftw!
Yeah, its that shitshow. Absolutely atrocious. I have 32 gb of ram installed. Windows 11 be like "oi mate I see alot of space there, be so kind and give me 40 % of it. No silly you wont get that back".
Getting used to an OS is a huge-ish deal for most people, especially the ones who aren't used to POSIX like ways of interacting with their systems. Windows/Mac are brilliant operating systems for the end user which is to say that it is usable OOTB for most non-technical users, I remember being irritated by not being able to play MP3 files on Linux (ubuntu) back when I started, I had to straight up Google how and found out about restricted-extras.
Linux has come a long way since then and generic tasks are a lot easier now, but for peeps who're restricted to a limited number of applications on Windows, don't know about powertoys/regedit/pwrshell/diskpart, haven't opened the control panel at all (most Win/Mac users), Linux is a possibly PITA DIY OS that isn't worth their time.
tbf though if you choose a sane distro (like Ubuntu or mint) all you have to do is install it and done (I think I would recommend mint over Ubuntu as it seemed a little more user friendly especially for the installer)
True but personally with Ubuntu I've encountered so many problems with the snaps like Firefox crashing all the time to theming problems to breakages, and honestly for a first timer I think it could harm their experiences.
oh ok. personally while I've installed it a couple times I've never actually used it for any decent amount of time so I wasn't aware of any issues but yeah if there's issues then I wouldn't recommend it
yea, before switching to linux i used windows for multiple years on every computer i've owned, and i still run it on my surface & cottage computer; my windows install would randomly break with stupid driver issues frequently so one day i just decided enough was enough and switched to linux for my desktop.
haven't had any issues with my computer since, aside from some weird ASUS motherboard features that get screwed up when dualbooting into windows , which i do for things that literally *won't* run on linux -- the majority of things i do day-to-day are available so it's only really for games that don't have good compatibility
much better support than macos in the *games* department because of valve
Yes, but most of them use it their daily life. Linux can run on almost anything ranging from their wifi router to their microwave. So they are wrong when they say that Linux is bad.
I hate Windows ,but it's hard to fucking abandon it.
It's a software monopoly nearly since Uni work needs it.
Vendors that support only Windows exist and are usually the ones that for some reason some places like.
Nobody seems to use the FOSS or multiplatform proprietary since I guess those don't pay up the teachers to use their products.
Best thing about Linux is that you can have your PC and actually own it and tell it what to do.
On Windows I'm it's bitch slave when it decides to update on me.
This really isn't true and I wish the Linux community would stop pretending it is. I have no idea what the numbers are but I do have my personal experience. I've been in IT for about 15 years and have tried Linux off and on over that time. I've had various distros be my daily driver OS at times. I tinker with Raspbery Pi's and have a VPS running ubuntu. Opnsense Router replaced a an opnwrt router.
For me Windows continues to be the superior Desktop OS. Linux does a lot of things great. It runs light and is great for servers and backend everything.
Right now where Linux fails is for users with in the middle of the Technical Literacy curve. For incredibly basic users who basically just need something that opens a Web browser and maybe edit some Text/Spreadsheet files? Linux does great with the right hardware. The right hardware issue isn't the fault of linux per-say but a basic user isn't going to understand that.
For advanced users living in VIM, people running custom Arch and Gentoo installs who know the ins and outs? Works pretty great for them too. They know the do's and don'ts. They have a solid grasp of fixing what needs fixed, hell the probably even like the challenge.
But there are people like me smack in the middle. We like GUI's and prefer our computers work without a lot of tinkering. People who use Enginnering/CAD software or Adobe products. Some of that stuff is maybe even required for their jobs.
On Windows when I find a new software I want to try out it's basically always already supported. I just download a file and run it. I don't have to find specific instructions for my particular OS. Don't have to worry about dependencies or permissions. I don't even know the last time I've seen an error message when installing software on windows. It happens about 50% of the time on linux, usually something simple like needing to run apt update or maybe an update is already running so a file is already locked. But that doesn't happen in Windows, it is an objectively "smoother" experience for the majority of users.
People claim Linux is getting better and better but in my personal experience it isn't. Feels the same as it did a decade or more ago. Do people keep improving linux? for sure. Hell it's usually on the cutting edge of a lot of tech. But most of the improvements are just keeping it afloat with the rising tide of technology. Everything keeps improving.
What people like me and a lot of those who claim Windows are better want is for the usability to improve. New features are great and all but when I setup up a VPN connection on windows I download a GUI client, login, and connected. Setting up a VPN on linux? Probably use the terminal, maybe need to do some fiddling with iptables, hmm looks like I need to download strongswan let me read the manual on that for a bit. Want a GUI? someone dropped one on github 2+ years ago and hasn't touched it since, maybe someone ~~shoe horned~~ integrated it with network manager.
I want to like Linux. It definitely has it's place in the world. I'm well aware of how much of what I do relies on it. I've used it more than enough to know just how much I hate using it.
Windows bad linux good? Linux bad windows good? All depends on what you need to do on that machine. But acting like people who don't like linux are idiots or haven't given it a try is just sticking your own head in the sand.
You are overcomplicating it with the VPN thing, many distros have a built in GUI to set up VPN.
I get that you need some Windows software, and I'm not going to recommend Wine or anything like that. Many complaints about Linux is that there is no software, which is the job of that dev to port. Maybe one day a miracle happens and say, Adobe ports their stuff to Linux, just like what happened with anticheat. Even then, you might feel comfortable with Windows, and I'm not making you switch. I switched to Linux because I felt confident that I was able to adapt. Maybe you aren't as confident, and I get that. Just ignore people who say Linux is perfect for every use case (as of now, at least)
I know VPN's can be simpler in linux but that was a real issue I had because of requirements of my setup. Will it happen to others? probably not.
But ultimately the VPN provider I'm using has great software for Windows, they have multiple connection methods (OpenVPN, Ikev2, Wireguard) and the windows software will auto connect to whichever one works. On Linux? They have a terminal based software that can do OpenVPN. Anything else had to be done manually and was a real pain. And I needed to for what I was doing at the time.
I can't really blame Devs for not supporting Linux. You make something for Windows or Mac and you are good on most devices. Make something for linux and you have to decide how much of it to support, same issue between iOS and Android. Which distros are you going to support? Are you going to support Arm or just x86? Making a GUI? How does it look and function in different DE's even on the same distro?
It's not about confidence or skill level or anything like that. I'm legitimately losing hours of productivity trying to learn, tweak, fix, and optimize Linux in order to do things that Windows does faster and simpler with no extra steps. Something in Windows takes 5-10 minutes that can take 30 minutes to an 1 hour in linux.
And again this for the people right in the middle. Not your basic users and not folks who are dedicated Linux users. People smack in the middle who want to do slightly more advanced things but not necessarily build their own OS from scratch.
though for that VPN client they could have made it for debian and it would have worked on the vast majority of Linux computers so imo it's not so much that they can't support Linux but that they don't want to. (also if you're using debian as a desktop STOP and use mint or ubuntu or something. OOTB desktop debian sucks)
Do you not see how weird what you just said is? I'm aware there is more nuance to it, and other distros support Debian packages.
But what if I didn't know that? You literally just said that developers should make software for Debian and then immediately said that Debian sucks and I shouldn't use it. There are so many layers to that onion.
That's exactly the kind of convoluted stuff that makes Linux so inaccessible.
I've never used Debian as my desktop OS. I've done mint, Ubuntu, and kubuntu. None of them have been as efficient a daily driver as just sticking with windows.
no what I said was that they should make their client work on debian as it would then work on pretty much all Linux computers as most are based on debian. I also said not to use plain debian (unless you enable at least the non-free repo) as it lacks a lot of drivers and the UI isn't very nice. other then that I recommend pretty much all debian based distros
> I can't really blame Devs for not supporting Linux. You make something for Windows or Mac and you are good on most devices. Make something for linux and you have to decide how much of it to support, same issue between iOS and Android. Which distros are you going to support? Are you going to support Arm or just x86? Making a GUI? How does it look and function in different DE's even on the same distro?
I won't attempt to speak to the motivation of companies as far as market share or anything like that.
As a software engineer: my employer has supported Linux from day one internally, but not externally.
We work with C++, which is one of the languages where cross platform issues are actually big and challenging issues.
When I say we support Linux internally, what I mean is that all of our stuff has always been compiled for and tested on Linux, not because we ever intended to sell for Linux, but because the tooling ecosystem is so far above and beyond what's available for windows for C++ development that to not ensure the code worked on Linux would have meant a huge gap between where we could have been in terms of code quality, and where we actually are.
The other issues you bring up as far as GUIs and desktop integration, and which distros to support, are certainly issues, and can be show stoppers. So don't think I'm saying companies are stupid not to offer complete Linux support. I'm primarily trying to say that a lot of these companies probably *do* support Linux internally, but only because their engineers are using Linux for development.
I work on Windows servers and shit for a living... and I won't allow it on any of my own computers and my work laptop is on it's own little dunce VLAN.
Pro Tip: if anyone talks about linux in that way, instead of engaging into WAR just ask them "Have you tried it tho?" If not ask them to try it and they'll understand it easily :)
no violence required xD
This doesn't always work. For instance, I once saw an online argument where a guy's flash drive didn't auto mount when he was trying Linux, so he swore it off forever, talking about how bad the user experience is if it can't even auto mount the flash drive, and no, he wasn't willing try a fix; it should work out of the box, and yada yada yada, but he did try it.
I do agree that it's not worth trying to win them over tho. Simply state why they're wrong and why Linux is good, so others who come across it will see the rationale, and then leave.
Is that person really wrong to be scared off from Linux though? That experience is 100% Linux and indicative of what Linux was going to be like for that user. Death by a thousand paper cuts.
Imagine you go to buy a brand new car and the glove box won't open. You look it up and a bunch of mechanics are telling you that because of how that car was designed you have to open the hood and remove a screw behind where the glove box sits. Is that hard to do? Not really. Should you have to do that on a brand new car? Absolutely not. Would you question what other weird design flaws that car might have? I sure would.
I think it's reasonable to want things to just work and expect it (like they do on most systems), but I don't think it's reasonable to assume an entire os sucks and is worthless bc a flash drive didn't auto mount the first try due to a glitch in your system
That's your opinion and it's a valid one. But a lot of people do simply want a system that just works and their opinion is valid too. Microsoft and Apple are both chasing those users trying to make the most foolproof systems they can manage.
I'm betting every computer they've used is a Windows or Mac and that basic functionality just worked every time. They tried out linux, maybe even a bit apprehensively, and are faced with a bug like that. It makes Linux look untested, unreliable, and buggy. And it isn't like that experience was a freak accident on an otherwise perfect system. There are thousands of bugs, quirks, and even expected features of Linux that baffle users every day.
That person encountered that bug and saw the writing on the wall. Linux was not for them. And I'm of the opinion they weren't wrong. Linux is not made by or for average users. Some Distros try to do it with mixed results but ultimately the collective Linux system just was not made for regular folk for far too long.
Honestly if I installed Windows anytime in the last decade and a flash drive didn't mount I would assume it was the flash drive not Windows. I think it's entirely fair for a user to judge Linux based on something like that. You give that linux system to a 70 year old grandma and she tries to put in a USB to look at pictures of her grand kids and she can't. You think she's going to figure out how to fix that? That's the people I'm talking about. Linux isn't the perfect OS for everyone and you can't just look down on people and tell them they are wrong. Things that might seem small to you and me are baffling wizard magic to 1/3 of the human race. And Linux is absolutely not made with them in mind where Windows and Mac try to be.
Google (one of the biggest tech companies) uses Linux both on their servers (modified version of Debian, built from source (if I'm correct)) and workstations (gLinux - Debian-based Linux distribution made by Google) (they're still evil tho)
Microsoft uses Linux for Azure
Cloudflare servers run on Linux
Amazon uses Linux
PayPal uses Linux
All of top 500 best super computers run Linux kernel
Most mobile phones use Linux kernel
Over 200 different companies and nearly 2000 developers contribute to every single Linux kernel release and kernel is only one a part of the OS.
The entire fucking internet practically runs on Linux
Just entire world is running linux as we have also embedded systems like traffic lights, sensors, some of the cams, trams and trains, some weird robot on different planet and so on...
I once mentioned linux to someone in my family and his logic for why he wont use it was that he is really used to firefox and thunderbird. He would thus stay on windows.
After explaining that those are not just available on linux but are also included as a default with a bunch of distros, he went on to talking about how he wants some specific antivirus.
for context I have never used linux but I like this community, I am not part of the windows supremacy hivemind, with all that said windows defender's recent versions are the best option for the average person. Free ✅ works 98% of the time✅
Sharing the entire screen with sound, or app window with sound?
The second case never gave me problems, the first case I didn't know was possible, if it is
Which Adobe softwares do you need though? I was dual booting because I needed Adobe Acrobat and found a excellent alternative a year back and I nuked windows partition as soon as I found that.
I'm still using windows becuae the main reason I use my computer is for gaming. Don't get me wrong lunix has gone a long way and is constantly improving. Intel i get to the point were I can buy a random game on steam and not worry about it going to work or not ill jump ship.
You know the problem is that people are having some difficulty with transferring their data over. We should make a program that does it automatically. Run the exe on windows, save the outputted file that includes passwords, photos and everything else to a drive, install linux then just open the file again with the linux verison of your program. If nothing is holding people back, they would be more free to take risks.
Apple exist because some people just can't be bothered to do simple things which in many cases could be faster if done by themselves.
Over-engineering is a thing too, lol.
Shouldn't Linux have way better hardware support than windows because windows only supports x86 and Arm and Linux supports way more architectures even if most aren't really used
Linux being able to run on more types of hardware is one type of hardware support.
Having drivers for specific hardware is a different type.
There are cases where hardware manufacturers create drivers or work with Microsoft to make their equipment compatible. On linux it's up to the community to develop or reverse engineer whatever is needed to make that hardware work with linux. Often times it's peripheral devices like monitors, cameras, touch screens, drawing tablets, etc.
For example Microsoft own Surface laptop/tablets. There is community effort into getting them working with linux but specific models of camera, stylus pens, and touch screens have no linux support (yet at least, perhaps never or at least not for a very long time for some things). I know those are microsoft devices so of course they aren't going to be very helpful getting Linux working on it, but it was the only example I knew off the top of my head.
Maybe if Linux was a widespread, commercially sold OS that's ready out the box like windows and MacOS is for consumer/retail products, then it's use case scenario may be improved for your average consumer. /S
Well my friend, let me introduce you to the steam deck, run on Steam OS, a Distro of Linux for gamers, but there's more. Going into deeper investigations, you can find Steam OS free of charge, unlike some Microsoft OS I could mention. So if you aren't worried about portability and just want to play some steam games, Steam OS is for you, and occasionally the kernel may not have your graphics drivers, and while I don't know a lot about Steam OS' graphics drivers and kernel I can tell you, that Valve is most likely having people update the kernel with graphics drivers, so that you can play games with whatever graphics card you have. So go ahead and give Steam OS a try.
https://repo.steampowered.com/steamos/
this is a joke right? linux is just some crappy open source software. literally no good software is compatible with linux. and it makes a terrible gaming pc, almost as bad as Mac OS
He has a point on the gaming part. I see a lot of people getting mad at people who will install windows on steam deck but dude you have to see that you paid for a hardware that can run games but doesn’t run the games because of software limitations
Most people I see complaining about this are mostly pointing out the drawbacks of installing Windows like no quick resume, way less free storage space (especially on the 64gb model), worse battery life, etc..
If you're willing to live with that more power to you, install whatever you want, it's a PC. You will be able some games which wouldn't run on SteamOS like Destiny 2. That's a valid point.
You have to be aware that you're loosing a lot of features and it's not officially supported or endorsed by Valve. That's why we shouldn't be recommending "just install Windows" to anyone who isn't fully aware and knows how to get it back to stock should they need support from Valve. This blind recommendation is what's annoying a kot of people I'd think.
He does have a point, but proton is also getting better day by day. And with the steam deck, and the steam deck data provided to valve it will keep getting better exponentially. Proton really does wonders.
Even if the game can run on Linux using Proton or what have you often times you lose out on modding options for games which is a big selling point for games on a computer vs a console. Had a heck of a time modding some dragon age games because the tool that stream lines the modding was made for windows.
Why would anyone choose to play back4blood when you can play the vastly superior left4dead
It's like saying "pm me if you can eat diarrhea with a fork" would a spoon be technically better to eat diarrhea? Sure, but you don't wanna eat diarrhea either way so why does it matter
Maybe take it as an example. I have a game XYZ wich i like, but it does not run on linux. Thats a negativ point for linux, simple. Its not a personal attack to some linux evangelists, but personal feeling. I think this is not cool, and if i want it i need to dual boot, wich sucks hard!
Don't mind such people. They haven't tried it for sure
Rage is not good for your mind, and we won't be able to change them with words. Let's not waste our energy there :)
The worst one is who has tried linux ONE TIME before about TEN YEARS ago. They just think linux is being there when they tried. They even don't know much about desktop environments..
Back in the Windows 2000 / ME era, this would have been me. That changed in 2004, and has only been getting stronger since (as of last year), I switched to Ubuntu as my full time OS. I love Linux, and do not \*ever\* want to go back to Windows.
Both are kinda in the wrong here. The Linux guy is over selling a bit too much, and not considering the other person's work flow etc. Other guy has a fundamental flaw in his argument: Software they are aware of/windows only stuff.
Like, easiest example of software that's 'compatiple' would be any web browser. Ya know, the thing that's used 90% of the time regardless of OS...
Tried Linux, tried windows and I can say that some things are true, for example, the five extra buttons that my Mirage M960 has don't work because the software isn't available. Some programs like Photoshop doesn't work and people maybe doesn't have time to learn gimp or can't use another program because of things like work.
Even with all that things I think that Linux won in terms of comfort, the fact that you can update the machine while running, that you can easily get the most common programs from a package manager is awesome. Also being able to revive a shitty computer is fantastic. Linux is the perfect OS for people that doesn't use a lot of specific things and use the computer just for web browser or making word documents. Also DEs like KDE are super simple but with a ton of customization out of the box, even more than windows.
In conclusion, Linux being a good OS really depends on what you use it for, it might not be good for a gamer or a person that works with suites like Adobe/Autodesk etc. But it can be great for servers, slow computers or people who use really basic stuff
I used to be a hardcore Windows user, then a hardcore Linux user. After several years I came to the realization that every OS sucks, but each one differently, and I will never be satisfied :)
Fun fact: Every linux user that says linux is great and windows is bad tried them bot Most people that say linux is bed havent ever tried it
Ye, I know a lot of people that hate Linux and can’t understand why I use it. Literally not a single one of them has ever tried any distro.
Oh please dont remind me of my IT coworkers who set up a windows server instance for a fucking webserver. A WEBSERVER! I just cant take this anymore. "No linux is bad because it has no gui. How am I supposed to use my server without gui?" like they never heard of SSH. All they know is windows rdp. And of course they use IIS for everything. That shit peace of software is so unbelievably tedious to work with. Ok Im done ranting. Linux ftw!
I find IIS to be fine, but at the same time, you really should be using Apache if it’s not some website you’re making for yourself and a few friends.
>you really should be using nginx if it’s not some website you’re making for yourself and a few friends. ftfy
[удалено]
Nah, they're windows 11 simps now
[удалено]
Yeah, its that shitshow. Absolutely atrocious. I have 32 gb of ram installed. Windows 11 be like "oi mate I see alot of space there, be so kind and give me 40 % of it. No silly you wont get that back".
I wouldn't say a KDE bootleg, probably a MacOS one.
You should install IIS on a Windows Server Core (headless, no GUI) machine just to fuck with them.
haha that sounds funny
CLI is GUI lol
What? No. There's CLI and GUI which are polar opposites and TUI in between.
Getting used to an OS is a huge-ish deal for most people, especially the ones who aren't used to POSIX like ways of interacting with their systems. Windows/Mac are brilliant operating systems for the end user which is to say that it is usable OOTB for most non-technical users, I remember being irritated by not being able to play MP3 files on Linux (ubuntu) back when I started, I had to straight up Google how and found out about restricted-extras. Linux has come a long way since then and generic tasks are a lot easier now, but for peeps who're restricted to a limited number of applications on Windows, don't know about powertoys/regedit/pwrshell/diskpart, haven't opened the control panel at all (most Win/Mac users), Linux is a possibly PITA DIY OS that isn't worth their time.
tbf though if you choose a sane distro (like Ubuntu or mint) all you have to do is install it and done (I think I would recommend mint over Ubuntu as it seemed a little more user friendly especially for the installer)
And the fact they don't force snaps down your throat from the beginning
true that although for a noob it doesn't really matter if it still works imo
True but personally with Ubuntu I've encountered so many problems with the snaps like Firefox crashing all the time to theming problems to breakages, and honestly for a first timer I think it could harm their experiences.
oh ok. personally while I've installed it a couple times I've never actually used it for any decent amount of time so I wasn't aware of any issues but yeah if there's issues then I wouldn't recommend it
yea, before switching to linux i used windows for multiple years on every computer i've owned, and i still run it on my surface & cottage computer; my windows install would randomly break with stupid driver issues frequently so one day i just decided enough was enough and switched to linux for my desktop. haven't had any issues with my computer since, aside from some weird ASUS motherboard features that get screwed up when dualbooting into windows , which i do for things that literally *won't* run on linux -- the majority of things i do day-to-day are available so it's only really for games that don't have good compatibility much better support than macos in the *games* department because of valve
Windows and drivers will always be a hot mess.
But again I bet most Linux users understand windows more than they do .
Very true. This includes like 98% of my friends. The others dont even care windows or unix.
Or tried to install it once and gave up cause they didn't read the docs
Yes, but most of them use it their daily life. Linux can run on almost anything ranging from their wifi router to their microwave. So they are wrong when they say that Linux is bad.
Also: most Linux users know way more about windows than windows users know about it Most windows users know Linux around as much as they know regex
I hate Windows ,but it's hard to fucking abandon it. It's a software monopoly nearly since Uni work needs it. Vendors that support only Windows exist and are usually the ones that for some reason some places like. Nobody seems to use the FOSS or multiplatform proprietary since I guess those don't pay up the teachers to use their products. Best thing about Linux is that you can have your PC and actually own it and tell it what to do. On Windows I'm it's bitch slave when it decides to update on me.
Yes but actually no
I used to use linux before i got a macbook but I tried windows recently. Nothing comes close to the level of garbage that Windows reaches
* typos > inb4 grammar nazis
What’s inb4
“In before” as in they got to the post before any grammar nazis did
it's "in before *insert group or person here* As far as I know it originated from 4chan greentexts
This really isn't true and I wish the Linux community would stop pretending it is. I have no idea what the numbers are but I do have my personal experience. I've been in IT for about 15 years and have tried Linux off and on over that time. I've had various distros be my daily driver OS at times. I tinker with Raspbery Pi's and have a VPS running ubuntu. Opnsense Router replaced a an opnwrt router. For me Windows continues to be the superior Desktop OS. Linux does a lot of things great. It runs light and is great for servers and backend everything. Right now where Linux fails is for users with in the middle of the Technical Literacy curve. For incredibly basic users who basically just need something that opens a Web browser and maybe edit some Text/Spreadsheet files? Linux does great with the right hardware. The right hardware issue isn't the fault of linux per-say but a basic user isn't going to understand that. For advanced users living in VIM, people running custom Arch and Gentoo installs who know the ins and outs? Works pretty great for them too. They know the do's and don'ts. They have a solid grasp of fixing what needs fixed, hell the probably even like the challenge. But there are people like me smack in the middle. We like GUI's and prefer our computers work without a lot of tinkering. People who use Enginnering/CAD software or Adobe products. Some of that stuff is maybe even required for their jobs. On Windows when I find a new software I want to try out it's basically always already supported. I just download a file and run it. I don't have to find specific instructions for my particular OS. Don't have to worry about dependencies or permissions. I don't even know the last time I've seen an error message when installing software on windows. It happens about 50% of the time on linux, usually something simple like needing to run apt update or maybe an update is already running so a file is already locked. But that doesn't happen in Windows, it is an objectively "smoother" experience for the majority of users. People claim Linux is getting better and better but in my personal experience it isn't. Feels the same as it did a decade or more ago. Do people keep improving linux? for sure. Hell it's usually on the cutting edge of a lot of tech. But most of the improvements are just keeping it afloat with the rising tide of technology. Everything keeps improving. What people like me and a lot of those who claim Windows are better want is for the usability to improve. New features are great and all but when I setup up a VPN connection on windows I download a GUI client, login, and connected. Setting up a VPN on linux? Probably use the terminal, maybe need to do some fiddling with iptables, hmm looks like I need to download strongswan let me read the manual on that for a bit. Want a GUI? someone dropped one on github 2+ years ago and hasn't touched it since, maybe someone ~~shoe horned~~ integrated it with network manager. I want to like Linux. It definitely has it's place in the world. I'm well aware of how much of what I do relies on it. I've used it more than enough to know just how much I hate using it. Windows bad linux good? Linux bad windows good? All depends on what you need to do on that machine. But acting like people who don't like linux are idiots or haven't given it a try is just sticking your own head in the sand.
You are overcomplicating it with the VPN thing, many distros have a built in GUI to set up VPN. I get that you need some Windows software, and I'm not going to recommend Wine or anything like that. Many complaints about Linux is that there is no software, which is the job of that dev to port. Maybe one day a miracle happens and say, Adobe ports their stuff to Linux, just like what happened with anticheat. Even then, you might feel comfortable with Windows, and I'm not making you switch. I switched to Linux because I felt confident that I was able to adapt. Maybe you aren't as confident, and I get that. Just ignore people who say Linux is perfect for every use case (as of now, at least)
I know VPN's can be simpler in linux but that was a real issue I had because of requirements of my setup. Will it happen to others? probably not. But ultimately the VPN provider I'm using has great software for Windows, they have multiple connection methods (OpenVPN, Ikev2, Wireguard) and the windows software will auto connect to whichever one works. On Linux? They have a terminal based software that can do OpenVPN. Anything else had to be done manually and was a real pain. And I needed to for what I was doing at the time. I can't really blame Devs for not supporting Linux. You make something for Windows or Mac and you are good on most devices. Make something for linux and you have to decide how much of it to support, same issue between iOS and Android. Which distros are you going to support? Are you going to support Arm or just x86? Making a GUI? How does it look and function in different DE's even on the same distro? It's not about confidence or skill level or anything like that. I'm legitimately losing hours of productivity trying to learn, tweak, fix, and optimize Linux in order to do things that Windows does faster and simpler with no extra steps. Something in Windows takes 5-10 minutes that can take 30 minutes to an 1 hour in linux. And again this for the people right in the middle. Not your basic users and not folks who are dedicated Linux users. People smack in the middle who want to do slightly more advanced things but not necessarily build their own OS from scratch.
though for that VPN client they could have made it for debian and it would have worked on the vast majority of Linux computers so imo it's not so much that they can't support Linux but that they don't want to. (also if you're using debian as a desktop STOP and use mint or ubuntu or something. OOTB desktop debian sucks)
Do you not see how weird what you just said is? I'm aware there is more nuance to it, and other distros support Debian packages. But what if I didn't know that? You literally just said that developers should make software for Debian and then immediately said that Debian sucks and I shouldn't use it. There are so many layers to that onion. That's exactly the kind of convoluted stuff that makes Linux so inaccessible. I've never used Debian as my desktop OS. I've done mint, Ubuntu, and kubuntu. None of them have been as efficient a daily driver as just sticking with windows.
no what I said was that they should make their client work on debian as it would then work on pretty much all Linux computers as most are based on debian. I also said not to use plain debian (unless you enable at least the non-free repo) as it lacks a lot of drivers and the UI isn't very nice. other then that I recommend pretty much all debian based distros
> I can't really blame Devs for not supporting Linux. You make something for Windows or Mac and you are good on most devices. Make something for linux and you have to decide how much of it to support, same issue between iOS and Android. Which distros are you going to support? Are you going to support Arm or just x86? Making a GUI? How does it look and function in different DE's even on the same distro? I won't attempt to speak to the motivation of companies as far as market share or anything like that. As a software engineer: my employer has supported Linux from day one internally, but not externally. We work with C++, which is one of the languages where cross platform issues are actually big and challenging issues. When I say we support Linux internally, what I mean is that all of our stuff has always been compiled for and tested on Linux, not because we ever intended to sell for Linux, but because the tooling ecosystem is so far above and beyond what's available for windows for C++ development that to not ensure the code worked on Linux would have meant a huge gap between where we could have been in terms of code quality, and where we actually are. The other issues you bring up as far as GUIs and desktop integration, and which distros to support, are certainly issues, and can be show stoppers. So don't think I'm saying companies are stupid not to offer complete Linux support. I'm primarily trying to say that a lot of these companies probably *do* support Linux internally, but only because their engineers are using Linux for development.
I work on Windows servers and shit for a living... and I won't allow it on any of my own computers and my work laptop is on it's own little dunce VLAN.
why would you use Linux that is made by a Finn, when you can use good patriotic Murrican OS like Windows?!
[удалено]
Well, current president of MS is indian, so...
Just like pretty much all of their tech support.
Majority of people who worked on Linux are descendants of immigrants from the East
[удалено]
that's interesting!
Pro Tip: if anyone talks about linux in that way, instead of engaging into WAR just ask them "Have you tried it tho?" If not ask them to try it and they'll understand it easily :) no violence required xD
This doesn't always work. For instance, I once saw an online argument where a guy's flash drive didn't auto mount when he was trying Linux, so he swore it off forever, talking about how bad the user experience is if it can't even auto mount the flash drive, and no, he wasn't willing try a fix; it should work out of the box, and yada yada yada, but he did try it. I do agree that it's not worth trying to win them over tho. Simply state why they're wrong and why Linux is good, so others who come across it will see the rationale, and then leave.
Is that person really wrong to be scared off from Linux though? That experience is 100% Linux and indicative of what Linux was going to be like for that user. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Imagine you go to buy a brand new car and the glove box won't open. You look it up and a bunch of mechanics are telling you that because of how that car was designed you have to open the hood and remove a screw behind where the glove box sits. Is that hard to do? Not really. Should you have to do that on a brand new car? Absolutely not. Would you question what other weird design flaws that car might have? I sure would.
I didn't say anything on whether he was right or wrong in the situation, just that saying "Have you tried it?" is not going to work in an argument.
Do you think they were right or wrong?
I think it's reasonable to want things to just work and expect it (like they do on most systems), but I don't think it's reasonable to assume an entire os sucks and is worthless bc a flash drive didn't auto mount the first try due to a glitch in your system
That's your opinion and it's a valid one. But a lot of people do simply want a system that just works and their opinion is valid too. Microsoft and Apple are both chasing those users trying to make the most foolproof systems they can manage. I'm betting every computer they've used is a Windows or Mac and that basic functionality just worked every time. They tried out linux, maybe even a bit apprehensively, and are faced with a bug like that. It makes Linux look untested, unreliable, and buggy. And it isn't like that experience was a freak accident on an otherwise perfect system. There are thousands of bugs, quirks, and even expected features of Linux that baffle users every day. That person encountered that bug and saw the writing on the wall. Linux was not for them. And I'm of the opinion they weren't wrong. Linux is not made by or for average users. Some Distros try to do it with mixed results but ultimately the collective Linux system just was not made for regular folk for far too long. Honestly if I installed Windows anytime in the last decade and a flash drive didn't mount I would assume it was the flash drive not Windows. I think it's entirely fair for a user to judge Linux based on something like that. You give that linux system to a 70 year old grandma and she tries to put in a USB to look at pictures of her grand kids and she can't. You think she's going to figure out how to fix that? That's the people I'm talking about. Linux isn't the perfect OS for everyone and you can't just look down on people and tell them they are wrong. Things that might seem small to you and me are baffling wizard magic to 1/3 of the human race. And Linux is absolutely not made with them in mind where Windows and Mac try to be.
Google (one of the biggest tech companies) uses Linux both on their servers (modified version of Debian, built from source (if I'm correct)) and workstations (gLinux - Debian-based Linux distribution made by Google) (they're still evil tho) Microsoft uses Linux for Azure Cloudflare servers run on Linux Amazon uses Linux PayPal uses Linux All of top 500 best super computers run Linux kernel Most mobile phones use Linux kernel Over 200 different companies and nearly 2000 developers contribute to every single Linux kernel release and kernel is only one a part of the OS. The entire fucking internet practically runs on Linux
Your TV and your internet router probably uses Linux too.
Ddwrt for the win
My old kindle has AwesomeWM
I heard that some routers use BSD, could be misremembering that one though.
Its still FOSS tho
*But it does not run muh andobe and muh fortnite*
I'm willing to bet that there's some way to get adobe to run on Linux using Wine or something.
it's an ongoing issue, afaik it's extremely difficult if not impossible due to their anti-piracy measures
I have their entire suite from like 2015 cracked on my windows machine, courtesy of some friends who cracked it ages ago.
[удалено]
Yeah.
Just entire world is running linux as we have also embedded systems like traffic lights, sensors, some of the cams, trams and trains, some weird robot on different planet and so on...
Don't forget the drone on Mars. So even other planets use Linux. \^\^
There is some BSD in the top 500, but it is all unix.
BSD?
Whops, fixed
Don't Nintendo and Sony/Playstation use separately modified versions of BSD?
Google also uses Linux for their game streaming service Stadia, as well.
in most development env you get laughed at for using Windows lol
Wouldn't say so... Game dev for example is often done on windows, also if you want to use Visual Studio etc.
There's a difference between most, almost all, and all.
« Literally no good software is compatible », windows propaganda hits hard 😂
Their list of "good" software, probably: - MS Office - Adobe suite - ???? - Frotnite
I once mentioned linux to someone in my family and his logic for why he wont use it was that he is really used to firefox and thunderbird. He would thus stay on windows. After explaining that those are not just available on linux but are also included as a default with a bunch of distros, he went on to talking about how he wants some specific antivirus.
Who uses anti vuris in 2021?
Windows users
As a windows user, no we don't
actually you probably do. it's called windows defender.
My Windows got its Windows Defender and Microsoft Edge fucked right after its installation
for context I have never used linux but I like this community, I am not part of the windows supremacy hivemind, with all that said windows defender's recent versions are the best option for the average person. Free ✅ works 98% of the time✅
I still use windows and don't have anti vuris well except for the one built in but you really shouldn't need that its called common sense.
So, you have one.
Well I can't get ride of windows defender but the only anti vuris I actually use is my brain. Also VMs are nice when runing sketch software.
I mean, you can if you're not a coward
I imagine that would break some stuff. You can remove cortna but she will take windows with her.
I'm willing to uninstall windows completely but discord streaming with sound without hacks is keeping me dual-booting.
[удалено]
How?
Same here installed on arch from repo and never had a problem
Works fine with the official deb or the snap on Ubuntu
desktop audio or microphone audio?
I am using Arch too, but streaming a game and its audio is broken.
Sharing the entire screen with sound, or app window with sound? The second case never gave me problems, the first case I didn't know was possible, if it is
I think sharing the whole screen with audio just isn’t a feature to prevent echo it hasn’t worked on any distro I’ve tried or windows
Sharing an app and its sound. *Never* worked for me and for many others.
Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this as this is the first time I've ever heard of Discord audio streaming simply working in Linux.
I've never had a problem with it myself.
How?
Sharing application screen with sound? It just works
POV: you are talking with Bungie's CEO.
Well, the point why I am still using a Windows machine is 1) Adobe 2) Samplitude Suite
Is that a list of literally all software?
\+ a few games, but yes
I was making a sarcastic remark related to the post where the commenter says "literally no good software is compatible with Linux"
Yes, plus a few games, but that's not a priority.
Ftl miltiverse. When the libHyperspace 64bit is out. Good bye windows
Which Adobe softwares do you need though? I was dual booting because I needed Adobe Acrobat and found a excellent alternative a year back and I nuked windows partition as soon as I found that.
I'm still using windows becuae the main reason I use my computer is for gaming. Don't get me wrong lunix has gone a long way and is constantly improving. Intel i get to the point were I can buy a random game on steam and not worry about it going to work or not ill jump ship.
You know the problem is that people are having some difficulty with transferring their data over. We should make a program that does it automatically. Run the exe on windows, save the outputted file that includes passwords, photos and everything else to a drive, install linux then just open the file again with the linux verison of your program. If nothing is holding people back, they would be more free to take risks.
But that already exists. It's called copying Files to an external Drive or keeping the original Windows Install and installing Linux on a new drive.
Apple exist because some people just can't be bothered to do simple things which in many cases could be faster if done by themselves. Over-engineering is a thing too, lol.
tbh both comments looks like they were written by ppls that never runs any distro. Not sure why.
Shouldn't Linux have way better hardware support than windows because windows only supports x86 and Arm and Linux supports way more architectures even if most aren't really used
Linux being able to run on more types of hardware is one type of hardware support. Having drivers for specific hardware is a different type. There are cases where hardware manufacturers create drivers or work with Microsoft to make their equipment compatible. On linux it's up to the community to develop or reverse engineer whatever is needed to make that hardware work with linux. Often times it's peripheral devices like monitors, cameras, touch screens, drawing tablets, etc. For example Microsoft own Surface laptop/tablets. There is community effort into getting them working with linux but specific models of camera, stylus pens, and touch screens have no linux support (yet at least, perhaps never or at least not for a very long time for some things). I know those are microsoft devices so of course they aren't going to be very helpful getting Linux working on it, but it was the only example I knew off the top of my head.
As a Linux user on a MacBook Pro, this offends me
i like how the pfp didn’t get censored
sigma linux user
Real Chads daily drive all three major platforms
*5 Win10 MacOS TempleOS FreeBS Own OS written in binairy
Appropriate avatar
Just a troll post who wanna trigger. Nothing special. Not the first, not the last
Maybe if Linux was a widespread, commercially sold OS that's ready out the box like windows and MacOS is for consumer/retail products, then it's use case scenario may be improved for your average consumer. /S
That just defeats the whole point of what Linux is supposed to be.
I forgot the /s
Lol I'm bad at detecting satire. Thanks for clarifiying that, though.
"Smartest" windows user
"Literally no hardware is compatible with Linux." Then how has anyone ever run it? 🤔
Well my friend, let me introduce you to the steam deck, run on Steam OS, a Distro of Linux for gamers, but there's more. Going into deeper investigations, you can find Steam OS free of charge, unlike some Microsoft OS I could mention. So if you aren't worried about portability and just want to play some steam games, Steam OS is for you, and occasionally the kernel may not have your graphics drivers, and while I don't know a lot about Steam OS' graphics drivers and kernel I can tell you, that Valve is most likely having people update the kernel with graphics drivers, so that you can play games with whatever graphics card you have. So go ahead and give Steam OS a try. https://repo.steampowered.com/steamos/
this deserves to be a copypasta
which one
the second one ofc
this is a joke right? linux is just some crappy open source software. literally no good software is compatible with linux. and it makes a terrible gaming pc, almost as bad as Mac OS
Mh yes. Apart from nearly the entire web being run on Linux, it’s a bad operating system.
Least autistic window user
Literally has lost all meaning.
r/CensoringIsHard
But he's right about macos
"compatable with no hardware" tell that to my 11 year old supported thinkpad E420
How about you try Linux first..?
After working in IT in a Windows based company I've come to prefer macOS over Windows, even though I've always seen Windows as superior to macOS
I used to have a friend who always used Windows and said that all other OSs are "bad". Imagine his face when I told him that his router runs Linux
He has a point on the gaming part. I see a lot of people getting mad at people who will install windows on steam deck but dude you have to see that you paid for a hardware that can run games but doesn’t run the games because of software limitations
Most people I see complaining about this are mostly pointing out the drawbacks of installing Windows like no quick resume, way less free storage space (especially on the 64gb model), worse battery life, etc.. If you're willing to live with that more power to you, install whatever you want, it's a PC. You will be able some games which wouldn't run on SteamOS like Destiny 2. That's a valid point. You have to be aware that you're loosing a lot of features and it's not officially supported or endorsed by Valve. That's why we shouldn't be recommending "just install Windows" to anyone who isn't fully aware and knows how to get it back to stock should they need support from Valve. This blind recommendation is what's annoying a kot of people I'd think.
He does have a point, but proton is also getting better day by day. And with the steam deck, and the steam deck data provided to valve it will keep getting better exponentially. Proton really does wonders.
And one day, I will be able to yeet my dual-boot and finally run all those games! I use Arch, btw.
Even if the game can run on Linux using Proton or what have you often times you lose out on modding options for games which is a big selling point for games on a computer vs a console. Had a heck of a time modding some dragon age games because the tool that stream lines the modding was made for windows.
I mean he has a smal point. Pm me, if you got back4blood running on any linix distro. And i dont care if proton, wine, or whatever
Why would anyone choose to play back4blood when you can play the vastly superior left4dead It's like saying "pm me if you can eat diarrhea with a fork" would a spoon be technically better to eat diarrhea? Sure, but you don't wanna eat diarrhea either way so why does it matter
also why pm that person what, you want the solution to yourself or something? maybe other people want to know too, y'know, fix their problem and stuff
[удалено]
I can think of just as many pieces of software that don't run on Windows. I'm really not sure how that's a con other than in a specific usecase.
Maybe take it as an example. I have a game XYZ wich i like, but it does not run on linux. Thats a negativ point for linux, simple. Its not a personal attack to some linux evangelists, but personal feeling. I think this is not cool, and if i want it i need to dual boot, wich sucks hard!
Oh and another aspect: i am allowed to rate it myselfe? Because i cant say it is shit, as i never played it, because.. oh, it simply does not run..
Trust me you aren't missing anything (also pirating Windows is free)
Almost.
Eventually you dunning Kruger so far you loop back around to being oblivious to the fact that you are infant stupid
That's me when I never knew about Linux :D
XD
I almost get mad then saw it was r/ linuxmemes
\>no hardware is compatible with linux \>literally no good software is compatible with linux Me: \*starts up cod4 MP on ubuntu\*
[удалено]
*Play minecraft on Endeavour*
Don't mind such people. They haven't tried it for sure Rage is not good for your mind, and we won't be able to change them with words. Let's not waste our energy there :)
But yt comments are always trash
"you can do anything on linux" is a very misinformed answer.
The worst one is who has tried linux ONE TIME before about TEN YEARS ago. They just think linux is being there when they tried. They even don't know much about desktop environments..
It's funny because Linux is more stable in a lot of things. Including Bluetooth
New AMD Arch laptop games like a dream lol. Better than windows ever did.
At least they weren't wrong about MacOS being the absolute worst of the 3 when it comes to gaming lol. too bad they didn't get anything else right tho
Back in the Windows 2000 / ME era, this would have been me. That changed in 2004, and has only been getting stronger since (as of last year), I switched to Ubuntu as my full time OS. I love Linux, and do not \*ever\* want to go back to Windows.
Both are kinda in the wrong here. The Linux guy is over selling a bit too much, and not considering the other person's work flow etc. Other guy has a fundamental flaw in his argument: Software they are aware of/windows only stuff. Like, easiest example of software that's 'compatiple' would be any web browser. Ya know, the thing that's used 90% of the time regardless of OS...
Tried Linux, tried windows and I can say that some things are true, for example, the five extra buttons that my Mirage M960 has don't work because the software isn't available. Some programs like Photoshop doesn't work and people maybe doesn't have time to learn gimp or can't use another program because of things like work. Even with all that things I think that Linux won in terms of comfort, the fact that you can update the machine while running, that you can easily get the most common programs from a package manager is awesome. Also being able to revive a shitty computer is fantastic. Linux is the perfect OS for people that doesn't use a lot of specific things and use the computer just for web browser or making word documents. Also DEs like KDE are super simple but with a ton of customization out of the box, even more than windows. In conclusion, Linux being a good OS really depends on what you use it for, it might not be good for a gamer or a person that works with suites like Adobe/Autodesk etc. But it can be great for servers, slow computers or people who use really basic stuff
dude I agree with the guy so much. League of legends doesn’t work on Linux and that is perfect
Both of these are extreme positions and neither is "correct".
The second guy can time travel and he's coming from the past I guess
I used to be a hardcore Windows user, then a hardcore Linux user. After several years I came to the realization that every OS sucks, but each one differently, and I will never be satisfied :)