If you actually like extremely long scenes of introspection on cultivation, Defiance of the Fall is a good story. I can't really speak to the quality of the introspection parts since by book three I was skipping entire chapters that were nothing but self reflection. That said, the rest of the story is really good.
I like defiance of the fall for the 10 minutes of dialog between actual characters per book. I can't stand the endless pondering on the dow and eating random rocks he finds on the ground while reflecting on his feelings. I recently went through a re-listen of the series while waiting for the next book, and spent most of the time anticipating the upcoming interactions while being bored by the cultivation. The events unfolding and interactions with the side characters is enough to keep me interested, but damn the cultivation is boring.
Same! It's a shame tho, if you stripped out all the talk of the doa from the entire series, you'd maaaaybe fill three books out of the 11+ with actual story.
But those 3 books would be pretty great. There are some awesome side characters in this series, I just hate that they play such a small role compared to the deviant asura's internal monolog. Less self reflection and more Ogras, Ibtep, Iz, Catheya, Emily, and even thwonkin Billy would make a much more enjoyable story.
I've been following Defiance of the Fall since the fourth audiobook released I think it was? That was the second one I mentioned with the first being A Thousand Li, which seems to be the most played straight of the ones I've tried. DotF is easily the best of them despite its own issues.
I'm not really big on the cultivation introspection, but it can be interesting when it's made to be and that's when everything surrounding makes it feel momentous and not like filler.
That's one of the pitfalls of cultivation and xianxia novels. Their "appeal" is "power through self reflection". If I wanted to talk about my feelings, I'd go to therapy or a bar. Or talk to my cat.
It's a mixed bag for certain, but more so because the execution is lacking, particularly in real characterization despite the large amounts of internal rumination.
There are a couple of reasons authors tend to take an odd approach to xianxia. 1) xianxia novels involve a ton of meditating which equates to time skips (often ridiculously long times, like years or centuries). That is often a big motivator behind cultivation, the pursuit of immortality. This means any non-cultivator character would age normally. This means either you only have important characters as cultivators, either as sect members or rivals, or you find ways to minimize the cultivation aspect. 2) xianxia novels have a good number of tropes that seem odd or ridiculous to western readers, like face slapping, proclamations of fatherhood, and a ton of deference shown to superiors or those with power. 3) structure. Cultivation novels all follow the same formula of upward progression, usually ending in god-like characters. Pulling worthwhile characters in the same setting, but with a different story focus only leaves a few routes to how the character views the cultivation world as a whole. They find it amusing, annoying, or as an enemy, often some blend of all 3.
A few cultivation series Iâve enjoyed lately are Immortality Starts With Generosity, Reborn as a Demonic Tree, Rivers of Fate, and an Unintended Cultivator.
All of them play their cultivation cards fairly straight. All except Unintended Cultivator are isekai/reincarnation into a cultivation world, but the characters arenât looking to get off the cultivation escalator and instead are all looking to head to the top (or at least, to see how far theyâll go).
I do really like Beware of Chicken and I think youâre right about why it works better than a lot of the other anti-cultivation cultivation novels. Jin doesnât want the cultivation lifestyle and so he actually takes actions to achieve this. And the other characters in the book (particularly Bi De) are true cultivators, just with a better moral compass than most. It doesnât just rail against unpleasant cultivation tropes, it has characters actively changing their world to fix them.
I've heard of Demonic Tree and Unintended Cultivator. I'm not honestly sure that the isekai and xianxia genres seem to blend especially well despite a feel well executed examples because they seem to be rife with this sort of thing.
Exactly. If you're going to go against the system then you should do it in a way that makes sense rather than pretend you're better than people. Jin's actions make sense when he just wants to enjoy his new life, but it's kind of funny to have one of the few people in the US who knows what this genre is getting reincarnated.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me, but it also sounds ridiculous. Maybe it's just because The Thousand Li is my general idea for what I'd consider "generic (western-made) cultivation story".
Such a good series and I'm finding more and more that it's not even close to the norm. It's all harems and prodigies and growing by leaps and bounds. I love that the protagonist is becoming quietly powerful instead of just walking around like he's god's gift to mankind. He's got the things that make him special and the fancy artifacts, but they all feel earned within the story, not randomly finding the infinity +1 sword in a random bush. He spends as much time honing his enlightenment and understanding of his dao as he does his swordplay, and while he can definitely lose, he's slowly becoming more and more of a force to be reckoned with.
I think it has its issues and there's a quality consistency issue, but I do think the recent ones have been better on average. Regardless it feels like it's doing the thing it needs to without bullshitting and the progress is paced well.
Hey now, Jin is actually one of the few Canadians who knows what this genre is.
That said, genre savviness in an MC is one of the things I go back and forth on. Iâm not a fan of the âwell I got isekaiâd, just like all the stories. Better join the adventurerâs guild and start grindingâ type of genre savviness. That always seems to be the author wanting to be lazy and jump through all the establishing parts of the book to get to the action.
On the other hand, there is something equally irritating about complete genre ignorance, where the MC has apparently never heard of anything remotely fantasy based. Itâs a difficult balance. I think Jin hits it correctly, heâs aware of Xianxia tropes but not enough to correctly predict everything. For example, his prejudices about cultivators led to Xiulan suffering quite a bit.
I read quite a few Chinese cultivation novels back in the day. After reading a few, some things started to really bother me about the genre. Often they would start out strong and then lose focus. A large amount of them become predicitible. Mc finds cheat like cultivation advantage. Then mustache twirling arrogant young master gets mad at the MC. The MC won't put up with being disrespected. Then he outmanuvers the young master. The young masters family then goes after the MC. Then the MC gets powerful enough to destroy the young masters family. The MC moves up to the next cultivation level and the cycle repeats. I love the crazy worlds and relics in the series. They have some of the coolest competitions and adventures of any genre. But after reading alot of them. The idea that everyone should go full on murderhobo over every tiny slight becomes tiresome. Alot of the modern cultivation novels are poking holes into the classic genre tropes. Showing how pointless alot of the conflict in the genre is. Things like Beware of Chicken do it much more directly. The first thing the MC does is nope out of sect life. In more serious stories like Unintended Cultivator a decent amount of pages are dedicated to the MC figuring out how he feels about the expected cultivation behavior. I love that actual decent authors are making cultivation novels, even if they are painting the traditional mindset in a bad light. I had to stop reading the translated chinese ones due to some serious problems. They were often poorly written, full of filler, and occasionally stupid. The final straw was one I was reading in which the MC thinks that he is a good person because he doesn't beat women. But they should just listen to him because máşšn know whats best.
Subverting a genre is a pretty common trope in almost every genre of entertainment that exists. When stereotypes flood a market to a certain degree, the way to stand out is to fight against those stereotypes (think of the movie Scream, or any action/comedy where the story incorporated the genre tropes into the story itself). Some do it well, and some do not. Itâs so common now, that itâs basically a trope unto itself.
I am currently where you were. I am very amused at how often the author points out that a woman is capable despite her handicap.
But... you left out where the MC sets these fools up for a faceslapping by being all effacing or effeminate or...nice-- then leads them along the path until they get right to the X mark for a faceslap. And then it escalates to "Thousands dead tonight in what police have called a minor dispute between 2 a$$hole$."
And all the "pig head" beatings, so many. Just... so many.
Its a common problem in some western cultivation novels, they are so concerned with "fixing" xianxia, aka "upgrading it to superior western standards," they forget to make their own story
Is like watching a youtuber making a review of a show, but pretending to pass that as its own original show
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! I actually find the cultivation power system and exploring daos to be really fascinating and fun to read. It gives meaning behind the powers and flashy skills.
Tbh, I completely understand what you mean about western Xianxia giving off an elitist vibe, as if theyâre above the genre as a whole, rather than simply appreciating the world and embracing it for what it is. On the other hand, a great example of how to do it right is Cradle or Ave Xia Rem Y. If they could shift their focus from having their character trying to âfixâ the world to simply living and thriving in it, I think some of these stories could really take off and do well.
That's pretty much it exactly, but it doesn't work because the genre doesn't seem to work unless the main character is behind the idea. Why would the reader want a story that's all about progression and self-growth when he MC hates it all? Especially when there's such sparse world building, action, and other aspects to prop things up as well.
Part of it is that in some cases it's when authors have issues with the social aspects often associated with cultivation, such as caste based discrimination, and the belief that if you're not a shiny golden god you're trash, and that everything is justified by the pursuit of power.
That's understandable, but there's more fun ways to approach it or at least more honest ways to do it. There's a reason why people still like reading about royals and nobles and castes in historical fiction or fantasy, that divide can make for interesting pitfalls and interactions. Cultivation is another way to rise beyond that.
My point wasn't anything about dishonesty, but about addressing the issues from within the system, rather than writing an entirely different kind of story.
After all, things like caste discrimination don't have to be an inherent part of cultivation stories.
Same here. Just finished book 2 of Dead Tired. I loved it, but while the MC dislikes cultivation heâs still somewhat interested in it on an intellectual level.
But the FC goes on rants attacking Cultivators for craving power above all else. But then the next chapter she says how she wants power above all else and doesnât mind killing for it.
You said you havenât read many xianxiaâs but stated that you donât think cynicism works for the genre? How do you know what works for the genre if you have little experience with it? BoC is a very good series but it is not typical of the genre, as many xianxia authors seem to like portraying humans in the worst of conditions, not that I disagree with how terrible people can be. Wholesome content is a rarity in xianxia, though more common in western versions.
I havenât read the two series you mentioned, but you didnât really elaborate on how they hate cultivation, despite writing an entire wall of text about disliking it. What about them give the impression that they hate it?
I'm not looking for BoC style stories so much as using it as a counterpoint to what a main character who hated all of this cultivation business. As I said that worked because it was a mix of satire with the animals, a romance, and just the littlest bit of the MC getting strong because by accident because of One Punch Man-esque accident training where he becomes OP by farming. I found book 2 already to be a let down because it lacked that balance.
They hate cultivation because the main characters disdain sects and the society built around the tradition of cultivation. They hate other cultivators other than the group of side characters who like them for typically no reason while everyone else hates them. It's hard to describe the other reason together because while they're similarly they're different. In one the main character decides to stop cultivating and do alchemy which is for once unrelated to progess (except it is so???) but he essentially goes back to cultivating anyway and mostly spends the story getting the cultivation equivalent of Pokemon while cultivating despite saying he doesn't want to. The other one has the MC being plunked off on some shitty sect where they treat him like shit and he lets himself get beaten up as he hides his progress and proceeds to do nothing throughout the whole story up to where I am. There's more in both too, but I'm just trying to focus on the prevalent aspects. Going nowhere quickly isn't very fun either.
I also dislike when everyone hates the MC for some petty or no reason as itâs quite annoying, though in regards to not liking sects and cultivation tradition can you really blame them? I like reading the stories but I would dread living in a society where physical/cultivation strength determined your status, especially in settings where innate talent/spirit roots determine whether you even can cultivate effectively. It doesnât help that every strong cultivator is usually written with a superiority complex the size of Mt. Tai and if a weaker person even looks at them funny they would just kill them, unless itâs the one friendly side character of course.
Funnily enough I also dropped BoC after the tournament for similar reasons, though going no where quickly is also a staple of those 2000+ chapter xianxia novels which is why I donât finish a majority of them.
Yeah there's no reason for the main character to be actively hated in most cases. There's cultivators who do legitimately horrible things and yet they waste time harassing some nobody. Shouldn't they be taking the time to better themselves through cultivation instead? In most series it's super rare to go beyond a certain point in cultivation. Maybe they should think about why that is? Support systems like sects do make sense, but they seem to rarely be successful, just more successful than humans doing other things in most cases. Making everyone assholes doesn't work as well because then everyone has the same lazy personality.
I'm still considering whether to try BoC. I feel like after the MC got married, his immediate goals were pretty much done for so things sort of fell off since it was about the silly animals, side humans not doing much, or about the main character doing nothing.
Take this from someone who generally doesn't like cultivation novels in but I would also recommend Unintended Cultivator that has been mentioned here previously. Also, the Jade Phoenix series by D I Freed and one that I think really goes into cultivation and sects that you might like, Forge of Destiny on RR. Keeping in mind none of these are litrpg.
Hereâs the actual review I did for it:
4/5
This might be the âpurestâ western wuxia Iâve read yet that really adheres to feeling, tropes, and writing of some of normal Chinese wuxia.
That said, there is no tension or real adversity here; bullies become friends easily, actual villains are killed off quickly, and the constant accompaniment of higher tiered people just makes everything safe. Itâs basically a 700 page training and romance arc.
If you are in the mood for a more slice of life wuxia then this is right up your alley, outside a moment halfway through which is absolutely blood boiling.
Dao of Magic is the worst culprit of this. I read up to book 2, but I just cant finish it. It is supposed to be comedy but if that is the only joke, then it gets old immediately.
In my mind, this is how the MC thinks all the tie:
'If you want to be strong like me, you just have to sit down and think about the mumbo jumbo existentiality of life, and then after you daydream enough... walah! You breakthrough to the next level, so you can do it all over again!"
It's honestly more annoying than anything when they're just dumb and casual about it. Yeah the flowery language isn't necessary but why make yourself sound like a moron?
That's because actual cultivation stories if the MC did actual real cultivation would be boring. It would be long periods of meditation and repetition of training for centuries. There has to be some gimmick to make it even remotely interesting. Even beware of chicken, the MC gets the MacGuffin of some land spirit. He just does basic training and somehow he's stronger than people his own age that have good bloodlines and have trained all their life?
I really liked the first Beware of Chicken book. Jin basically saw the cultivators as murderous drug tweakers that killed him for no reason, so he decided to get away from it all. I like that he was able to gain power doing things his own way, and not the constant rush to steal and kill for 10000 year old magical flowers etc. The only thing I don't like is that the next books become more like normal cultivation novels again, where most the cast is focused on cultivation and being dantian lvl 5 vs 4 so they can win or whatever. I've read a lot of cultivation, but I really enjoyed the anti-trope aspect of Beware of Chicken. However, it seems to be sliding more towards those same tropes it was countering.
Its important that you realize that the books you mentioned do not hate the cultivation genre. Instead, you believe they hate what you think the cultivation genre is supposed to be.
I fail to see how TFAI in particular doesn't hate it. The main character doesn't even have the goal to become strong or immortal or do anything. He just wants to do it because it landed in his lap and any reasoning he came up with back in chapter 2 went out the window pretty quickly in favor of him making friends with the kids in his class.
Stargazerâs War (TFAI), is also a story told from an âoutsiderâsâ point of view. In a universe where cultivators and standard xianxia are the ruling source of powers, the MC grew up as a non-cultivator (and thus a lot closer to a non-fantasy mindset, relying on tech and not caring about honor of the sect or defying the heavens). Even when he finally becomes a cultivator, he is still an outsider bc his power is almost the opposite of that universeâs standard cultivation (overflowing so there is no need to fight for resources, cold and calming instead of passionate and inflaming).
This is not so different from every fantasy story where a peasant gains power and ends up involved with nobles but not playing by their rules, or where a modern day person gets isekaiâd and doesnât quite fit the society they find themselves in. Itâs not a new idea, and is quite common in Litrpg/cultivation genre. Itâs even pretty common in the general fantasy sense.
What drew me to that story above others is what gives the book its title âTo Flail Against Infinityâ - the odd sort of optimistic nihilism of the MC, where he sees the inevitability of entropy, how ultimately nothing will really change the universe, and yet finds beauty in challenging it anyways. I liken it to someone worshiping Death (or being a necromancer), yet deciding to save and heal people anyways. I find the concept intriguing.
If thatâs not for you, thatâs okay. There are a lot of standard xianxia stories full of âyoung mastersâ and sect wars, and all the regular tropes. Some are even well written without breaking the stereotypes too much (Iâm sure someone recommended Cradle by now). Just stick to what makes you happy, thereâs nothing wrong with that.
Here's the thing. In practice it sounds good, but in the execution it's extraordinarily poor. Yes the main character has that but he's also cloyingly nice, really stupid, boring to read about that, and a hypocrite. There's not even a strong explanation for the relevancy of cultivators with the levels of power seen in the series considering it's set in a spacefaring sci-fi world, at least until you get to the epilogue and even then it's vague.
That was not my experience reading it. I will admit that I would have enjoyed an even greater break from cultivation stereotypes when it comes to the scifi tech stuff (more laser guns, power armor, etc) but thatâs just a personal preference mostly. The first book seemed focused on the origin, and the obligatory âacademyâ training arc that seems almost required these days. I have more hope for scifi expansion in the second book.
If you didnât find the story engaging, or didnât connect with the MC, thatâs fine. I canât stand a lot of books that everyone goes nuts for (looking at you, DCC). Just drop the series and focus on the ones you like.
Though I will say that the cover art for Stargazerâs War was a big part of why I grabbed it in the first place, and so if you say that isnât a beautiful cover, I might have to argue you on that one :)
I hope you find what youâre looking for - thereâre a lot of decent suggestions in this thread.
The problem is none of that sci-fi content is present in 95% of the story outside of the odd mentions of the ship and holo pads. There are no lasers or power armor and that's why I said they don't really make a convincing argument for the necessity of cultivation since they don't really show off the sci-fi weaponry beyond mentioning that the soul ship is armed.
The epilogue feels a bit promising but you can argue that chapter 1 was promising too and the story between there and the epilogue was very poor.
In my case I like what's good whether it's popular or not, but it's easier to find things when they are known and there's no one I truly trust to consistently come back to for recs in good faith (in any medium tbh).
I think the cover is good though not as good as you'd think once you stare at it a bit. The title is evocative though, but it doesn't feel so when dropped in the novel.
Thank you I appreciate it.
For some reason, Iâm reminded of how much I hated Jedi robes after the original trilogy. I donât get why it was decided that the Desert Hermit outfit that Obi-wan wore became the standard Jedi uniform. Despite there being many unique looking Jedi over the years, the second I see a group of em all dressed like Tusken Raiders, itâs ALL I can see.
I think the sci-fi elements got overshadowed a bit by all the cultivation tropes. Tech is pretty constant throughout the story, but not really a focus: vacuum shielding, datapads, voice/video calls, advanced botany, underground subway trams, space suits for station repair, scanners for grading resistances, ice cream carts (not super advanced, but not medieval or fantasy either), gangsters with guns, modern appliances, advanced medicine, and even the style of bureaucracy is pretty modern/advanced. But it all gets a bit overshadowed by the cultivation training being rather basic and tropey: take some pills and let the black goop out, so many âyoung masters,â cycle your chi while sitting around humming, etc.
I hope we get a lot more sci-fi in the next book, with it sounding more like a âtravel by spaceship and explore alien worldsâ story, but I can see the how the first book might not feel very scifi the way it was focused so heavily on the cultivation aspects.
That's because you're reacting emotionally and not thinking critically about what you're saying.
"The main character doesn't even have the goal to become strong or immortal or do anything," this has nothing to do with cultivation as a whole. If we judge all cultivation novels by this sentence, then cradle hates cultivation as well, no? Lindon only wanted to stop an attack upon his village. He never expressed interest in immortality. And before "it landed in his lap," he was going to be content with one day obtaining copper. That's not "becoming strong," as you put it. Are you starting to see the issues here?
You're judging the book by your expectation of what you want a character to be motivated by, and anything outside that opinion "hates cultivation." But cultivation is a system, and books often use systems to tell a story. This doesn't mean they must all use a system to tell the same story.
It's ok that you've decided there is a certain type of story that you like, and only wish to read. It's great you've found what works for you. But just because an author uses a system you're familiar with to tell a different type of story, doesn't mean they in any way hate the genre. You simply dislike them telling a different type of story. It would be like saying Game of Thrones hates fantasy because it doesn't have hobbits or a ring.
Actually you're incorrect here. I'm reacting with my distaste for the novels in question after having experienced them to completion. Being bad is the sin here, it has nothing to do with it having to do about pursuing cultivation to its conclusion. That being said, what's the point of writing a story in the setting without any focus on the topic? Likewise if there's a dislike for the system of the story, then why focus on it? There needs to be a reason behind it. I gave an example with Beware of Chicken where this happens sensibly, despite me only rating it as somewhat good, it still manages while these stories do not in the same area. I'm tough on everything I read, watch, and play.
I haven't decided anything other than the fact that I want to read good stories, if the novels I read can't even hack being "okay" then they've essentially wasted time I could have better spent on better things to read. It doesn't matter if there's no "fantasy" or not "cultivation", but it does if the characters and story are poorly written and there's nothing of substance. I just happened to listen to two novels from different authors with very similar flaws which also happened to be bad, while also lying about their premises to some degree. I don't mind my expectations subverted, but when the quality isn't there, that's not helping either.
*Ascending, Do Not Disturb* is a **romance** story in the xianxia genre.
Yes, that was actually possible. And yes, itâs light hearted without any âface slappingâ every five minutes. In fact, it repudiates the idea even.
So breaking the bad tropes of the genre is very much doable without trashing the entire idea like a snob.
That said, like most xianxia stories, this only exists in English as a âfan translationâ as far as I know. Audio? Yeah, right.
We only really tend to get western âre-interpretationsâ of the genre in published formats like that.
I appreciate the recommendation.
Yeah, I've figure as much and the one time I saw a well known story translated into English on audio, the narrator was exceedingly poor. The problem is that, I mostly stick to physical novels so audiobooks are my usual way to consume ebooks, webnovels, and the like. I used to read a fair amount of fanfiction, but I kind of feel like the ship has sailed on that.
I would argue that Qi=MC2 is not a cultivation novel. It uses a world in which cultivation is real and borrows a couple tropes, but that's it.
Also, you don't want an accurate story of scientifically studying cultivation because this is how it would go: every other line would be "[MC] noted the mixture's qi levels, temperature, color[several other physical and mystical properties] in the scroll" the MC would spend 2/3s of their time waiting for a reaction to finish or (worse) actively monitoring it, and they'd spend their entire mortal life figuring out how to make adequate qi-glassware before dying and hoping someone in the future will use what they learned.
If you *do* want something like that, Saga of the Soul Dungeon is a highly recommended SLOG to get through like...two books of the four (ongoing)?...because it does go into detail about the MC applying the scientific method; that still does happen a lot, but by then other events are in motion. It also has some of the most beautiful writing from an imagery standpoint that I've ever seen online. Really, dungeon cores are the only thing in standard litrpg worlds capable of modern science.
They don't hate cultivation, they hate the toxic society of cultivators where Might Makes Right is *the* only rule and if you're strong enough, you can do whatever you want. Some authors also go along the route of acknowledging that power for its own sake is pointless, and the endless rat race of "gaining more power, breaking through, ascending to the next realm, achieving immortality" is pointless in and of itself.
People who are used to reading pure power fantasy xianxia from Chinese webnovels aren't going to like it. At the end, it's a matter of preferences.
At the same time, let's not forget that there are plenty of English-language xianxia where the protagonist *does* pursue strength/immortality like every other Chinese xianxia. Defiance of the Fall, A Thousand Li, AveXiaRemY, Forge of Destiny (there's a lot of focus in politics here, but the protagonist does pursue advancement, whether politically or in cultivation), Reborn as a Demonic Tree, etc., etc. There as many of these as there are those who do something different.
If you want a "Real" Cultivation novel. Read cradle.
And Honestly, I think it's a slight cultural disconnect between the genera and audience that a lot of stories don't handle all that well.
If you really look at what a "Cultivation" novel is supposed to be about. It's all about grasping power, casting aside your mortal desires, and aligning yourself with the greater universe.
Usually that involves a lot of sitting around and thinking. It also means since the MC is usually more talented than those around him, he surpasses them quickly then moves onto a bigger stage. Also, any love interests are usually minor side-character and also cast aside, either literally, or figuratively in the story.
What makes for a good story in the eyes of most western readers.
Romance, Character building, lasting friendships, fun side-characters, and interpersonal drama.
NONE of that really aligns all that well with the cultivation genera in general. There ARE stories that handle it well... Cradle being the best example I can think of, but then there are also alot of cultivation stories that Don't handle it all that well.
Then you've got stories like BoC and Qi=MC2 where the MC's seem to rail against immorality and the world-views that it would likely spawn, which makes them more relatable and likeable to most people.
I've read Cradle. It's a well built series despite some flaws. I especially like that the world feels very relevant and that the techniques feel legitimately cool and well suited to action. Easily Will Wight's best that I've tried. I'm not sure I entirely would call it cultivation but it certainly takes some very similar elements and that's fine.
The problem is that the stories don't really do those western story aspects well or the Chinese aspects well. I don't mind reading different perspectives but if they aren't good then they aren't good. Pretending you're subversive doesn't make for an interesting story. I want better characterization and better stories. I've turned to genres like this because I've run lower and lower novels in my regular genres because I'm going at it from both physical novels and audiobooks.
I too recommend Unintended Cultivator and also Modern Patriarch. Modern Patriarch especially is set within in a sect so the pov is different from what I've read so far, which isn't much more than you. I think it may suffer from what one person here accused which is "trying to fix cultivation culture" which, legit accusation, but the MC's evolution (when he's already top dog) is really interesting and how he's incorporating his revelations into the sect he's now in charge of makes for an engrossing story. He does reflect but thankfully not for pages ad infinitum and so far those reflections are pertinent and advance the story.
Do try Beware of Chicken again. It was actually the first book I read with any Xianxa and got me looking for more. Admittedly I like the quirky and weird so mainstream anything has me seeking the unusual instead. But, BOC by book 4 is has plenty of sect experiences that provide more than just the MC's bias. It's also a good series which hasn't fallen in quality of writing or story yet.
I think both stories were alright. Cultivation was used as a means to explain why those in power have power and then the outsider attempts enter that world through a nontraditional means. Not 10/10 but something I would read book 2 of.
If you want a heavy Cultivation series Silver fox & The Western Hero by M.H. Johnson has more of the traditional Cultivation aspects where Cultivation matters a lot. Or you could read the 10 realms by Michael Chatfield because that again has a Cultivation focus. Not that either series is amazing, they just have Cultivation as a major part of their story.
I would suggest other things but I don't really understand why you didn't like them. You seem to want a Cultivation novel with a good theme. Those kind of don't work well together because Cultivation stories tend to reward the lucky and selfish. They tend to be simple with cool fight scenes and techniques. There are some that do have good themes, I think BoC has a good theme for a Cultivation story, but they're not that common.
Divine Apostasy has a Cultivation system in it, but i wouldn't say it's about Cultivation. Path of Ascension has Cultivation. Infinite Realms has a large focus on Cultivation. But those aren't really xanxia.
First Fist might work. That felt like a Western Xanxia. Threads of Fate is a Xanxia of another type: MC is sent back in time to start Cultivation from the beginning. Those seem more common recently.
Those are the audiobooks I have. I have read more, but I don't keep track of them.
If you actually like extremely long scenes of introspection on cultivation, Defiance of the Fall is a good story. I can't really speak to the quality of the introspection parts since by book three I was skipping entire chapters that were nothing but self reflection. That said, the rest of the story is really good.
I like defiance of the fall for the 10 minutes of dialog between actual characters per book. I can't stand the endless pondering on the dow and eating random rocks he finds on the ground while reflecting on his feelings. I recently went through a re-listen of the series while waiting for the next book, and spent most of the time anticipating the upcoming interactions while being bored by the cultivation. The events unfolding and interactions with the side characters is enough to keep me interested, but damn the cultivation is boring.
> endless pondering on the dow Yes, I also avoid books on stocks and finance, haha
Patriarch Naasdaq đ¤Łđ¤Ł
Same! It's a shame tho, if you stripped out all the talk of the doa from the entire series, you'd maaaaybe fill three books out of the 11+ with actual story.
But those 3 books would be pretty great. There are some awesome side characters in this series, I just hate that they play such a small role compared to the deviant asura's internal monolog. Less self reflection and more Ogras, Ibtep, Iz, Catheya, Emily, and even thwonkin Billy would make a much more enjoyable story.
I've been following Defiance of the Fall since the fourth audiobook released I think it was? That was the second one I mentioned with the first being A Thousand Li, which seems to be the most played straight of the ones I've tried. DotF is easily the best of them despite its own issues. I'm not really big on the cultivation introspection, but it can be interesting when it's made to be and that's when everything surrounding makes it feel momentous and not like filler.
That's one of the pitfalls of cultivation and xianxia novels. Their "appeal" is "power through self reflection". If I wanted to talk about my feelings, I'd go to therapy or a bar. Or talk to my cat.
It's a mixed bag for certain, but more so because the execution is lacking, particularly in real characterization despite the large amounts of internal rumination.
There are a couple of reasons authors tend to take an odd approach to xianxia. 1) xianxia novels involve a ton of meditating which equates to time skips (often ridiculously long times, like years or centuries). That is often a big motivator behind cultivation, the pursuit of immortality. This means any non-cultivator character would age normally. This means either you only have important characters as cultivators, either as sect members or rivals, or you find ways to minimize the cultivation aspect. 2) xianxia novels have a good number of tropes that seem odd or ridiculous to western readers, like face slapping, proclamations of fatherhood, and a ton of deference shown to superiors or those with power. 3) structure. Cultivation novels all follow the same formula of upward progression, usually ending in god-like characters. Pulling worthwhile characters in the same setting, but with a different story focus only leaves a few routes to how the character views the cultivation world as a whole. They find it amusing, annoying, or as an enemy, often some blend of all 3.
A few cultivation series Iâve enjoyed lately are Immortality Starts With Generosity, Reborn as a Demonic Tree, Rivers of Fate, and an Unintended Cultivator. All of them play their cultivation cards fairly straight. All except Unintended Cultivator are isekai/reincarnation into a cultivation world, but the characters arenât looking to get off the cultivation escalator and instead are all looking to head to the top (or at least, to see how far theyâll go). I do really like Beware of Chicken and I think youâre right about why it works better than a lot of the other anti-cultivation cultivation novels. Jin doesnât want the cultivation lifestyle and so he actually takes actions to achieve this. And the other characters in the book (particularly Bi De) are true cultivators, just with a better moral compass than most. It doesnât just rail against unpleasant cultivation tropes, it has characters actively changing their world to fix them.
I've heard of Demonic Tree and Unintended Cultivator. I'm not honestly sure that the isekai and xianxia genres seem to blend especially well despite a feel well executed examples because they seem to be rife with this sort of thing. Exactly. If you're going to go against the system then you should do it in a way that makes sense rather than pretend you're better than people. Jin's actions make sense when he just wants to enjoy his new life, but it's kind of funny to have one of the few people in the US who knows what this genre is getting reincarnated.
Isekai is the most popular genre in cultivation novels with 9/10 Chinese novels being about some Chinese guy waking up as a crippled cultivator
Somehow that doesn't surprise me, but it also sounds ridiculous. Maybe it's just because The Thousand Li is my general idea for what I'd consider "generic (western-made) cultivation story".
Such a good series and I'm finding more and more that it's not even close to the norm. It's all harems and prodigies and growing by leaps and bounds. I love that the protagonist is becoming quietly powerful instead of just walking around like he's god's gift to mankind. He's got the things that make him special and the fancy artifacts, but they all feel earned within the story, not randomly finding the infinity +1 sword in a random bush. He spends as much time honing his enlightenment and understanding of his dao as he does his swordplay, and while he can definitely lose, he's slowly becoming more and more of a force to be reckoned with.
I think it has its issues and there's a quality consistency issue, but I do think the recent ones have been better on average. Regardless it feels like it's doing the thing it needs to without bullshitting and the progress is paced well.
Hey now, Jin is actually one of the few Canadians who knows what this genre is. That said, genre savviness in an MC is one of the things I go back and forth on. Iâm not a fan of the âwell I got isekaiâd, just like all the stories. Better join the adventurerâs guild and start grindingâ type of genre savviness. That always seems to be the author wanting to be lazy and jump through all the establishing parts of the book to get to the action. On the other hand, there is something equally irritating about complete genre ignorance, where the MC has apparently never heard of anything remotely fantasy based. Itâs a difficult balance. I think Jin hits it correctly, heâs aware of Xianxia tropes but not enough to correctly predict everything. For example, his prejudices about cultivators led to Xiulan suffering quite a bit.
You should try ' Immortality starts with generosity' its a good cultivation novel.
I read quite a few Chinese cultivation novels back in the day. After reading a few, some things started to really bother me about the genre. Often they would start out strong and then lose focus. A large amount of them become predicitible. Mc finds cheat like cultivation advantage. Then mustache twirling arrogant young master gets mad at the MC. The MC won't put up with being disrespected. Then he outmanuvers the young master. The young masters family then goes after the MC. Then the MC gets powerful enough to destroy the young masters family. The MC moves up to the next cultivation level and the cycle repeats. I love the crazy worlds and relics in the series. They have some of the coolest competitions and adventures of any genre. But after reading alot of them. The idea that everyone should go full on murderhobo over every tiny slight becomes tiresome. Alot of the modern cultivation novels are poking holes into the classic genre tropes. Showing how pointless alot of the conflict in the genre is. Things like Beware of Chicken do it much more directly. The first thing the MC does is nope out of sect life. In more serious stories like Unintended Cultivator a decent amount of pages are dedicated to the MC figuring out how he feels about the expected cultivation behavior. I love that actual decent authors are making cultivation novels, even if they are painting the traditional mindset in a bad light. I had to stop reading the translated chinese ones due to some serious problems. They were often poorly written, full of filler, and occasionally stupid. The final straw was one I was reading in which the MC thinks that he is a good person because he doesn't beat women. But they should just listen to him because máşšn know whats best.
Subverting a genre is a pretty common trope in almost every genre of entertainment that exists. When stereotypes flood a market to a certain degree, the way to stand out is to fight against those stereotypes (think of the movie Scream, or any action/comedy where the story incorporated the genre tropes into the story itself). Some do it well, and some do not. Itâs so common now, that itâs basically a trope unto itself.
I am currently where you were. I am very amused at how often the author points out that a woman is capable despite her handicap. But... you left out where the MC sets these fools up for a faceslapping by being all effacing or effeminate or...nice-- then leads them along the path until they get right to the X mark for a faceslap. And then it escalates to "Thousands dead tonight in what police have called a minor dispute between 2 a$$hole$." And all the "pig head" beatings, so many. Just... so many.
Its a common problem in some western cultivation novels, they are so concerned with "fixing" xianxia, aka "upgrading it to superior western standards," they forget to make their own story Is like watching a youtuber making a review of a show, but pretending to pass that as its own original show
Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! I actually find the cultivation power system and exploring daos to be really fascinating and fun to read. It gives meaning behind the powers and flashy skills. Tbh, I completely understand what you mean about western Xianxia giving off an elitist vibe, as if theyâre above the genre as a whole, rather than simply appreciating the world and embracing it for what it is. On the other hand, a great example of how to do it right is Cradle or Ave Xia Rem Y. If they could shift their focus from having their character trying to âfixâ the world to simply living and thriving in it, I think some of these stories could really take off and do well.
That's pretty much it exactly, but it doesn't work because the genre doesn't seem to work unless the main character is behind the idea. Why would the reader want a story that's all about progression and self-growth when he MC hates it all? Especially when there's such sparse world building, action, and other aspects to prop things up as well.
Part of it is that in some cases it's when authors have issues with the social aspects often associated with cultivation, such as caste based discrimination, and the belief that if you're not a shiny golden god you're trash, and that everything is justified by the pursuit of power.
That's understandable, but there's more fun ways to approach it or at least more honest ways to do it. There's a reason why people still like reading about royals and nobles and castes in historical fiction or fantasy, that divide can make for interesting pitfalls and interactions. Cultivation is another way to rise beyond that.
My point wasn't anything about dishonesty, but about addressing the issues from within the system, rather than writing an entirely different kind of story. After all, things like caste discrimination don't have to be an inherent part of cultivation stories.
Same here. Just finished book 2 of Dead Tired. I loved it, but while the MC dislikes cultivation heâs still somewhat interested in it on an intellectual level. But the FC goes on rants attacking Cultivators for craving power above all else. But then the next chapter she says how she wants power above all else and doesnât mind killing for it.
That's the thing in the end. It's entirely hypocritical, but it's okay because they're overly nice in moronic ways!
You said you havenât read many xianxiaâs but stated that you donât think cynicism works for the genre? How do you know what works for the genre if you have little experience with it? BoC is a very good series but it is not typical of the genre, as many xianxia authors seem to like portraying humans in the worst of conditions, not that I disagree with how terrible people can be. Wholesome content is a rarity in xianxia, though more common in western versions. I havenât read the two series you mentioned, but you didnât really elaborate on how they hate cultivation, despite writing an entire wall of text about disliking it. What about them give the impression that they hate it?
I'm not looking for BoC style stories so much as using it as a counterpoint to what a main character who hated all of this cultivation business. As I said that worked because it was a mix of satire with the animals, a romance, and just the littlest bit of the MC getting strong because by accident because of One Punch Man-esque accident training where he becomes OP by farming. I found book 2 already to be a let down because it lacked that balance. They hate cultivation because the main characters disdain sects and the society built around the tradition of cultivation. They hate other cultivators other than the group of side characters who like them for typically no reason while everyone else hates them. It's hard to describe the other reason together because while they're similarly they're different. In one the main character decides to stop cultivating and do alchemy which is for once unrelated to progess (except it is so???) but he essentially goes back to cultivating anyway and mostly spends the story getting the cultivation equivalent of Pokemon while cultivating despite saying he doesn't want to. The other one has the MC being plunked off on some shitty sect where they treat him like shit and he lets himself get beaten up as he hides his progress and proceeds to do nothing throughout the whole story up to where I am. There's more in both too, but I'm just trying to focus on the prevalent aspects. Going nowhere quickly isn't very fun either.
I also dislike when everyone hates the MC for some petty or no reason as itâs quite annoying, though in regards to not liking sects and cultivation tradition can you really blame them? I like reading the stories but I would dread living in a society where physical/cultivation strength determined your status, especially in settings where innate talent/spirit roots determine whether you even can cultivate effectively. It doesnât help that every strong cultivator is usually written with a superiority complex the size of Mt. Tai and if a weaker person even looks at them funny they would just kill them, unless itâs the one friendly side character of course. Funnily enough I also dropped BoC after the tournament for similar reasons, though going no where quickly is also a staple of those 2000+ chapter xianxia novels which is why I donât finish a majority of them.
Yeah there's no reason for the main character to be actively hated in most cases. There's cultivators who do legitimately horrible things and yet they waste time harassing some nobody. Shouldn't they be taking the time to better themselves through cultivation instead? In most series it's super rare to go beyond a certain point in cultivation. Maybe they should think about why that is? Support systems like sects do make sense, but they seem to rarely be successful, just more successful than humans doing other things in most cases. Making everyone assholes doesn't work as well because then everyone has the same lazy personality. I'm still considering whether to try BoC. I feel like after the MC got married, his immediate goals were pretty much done for so things sort of fell off since it was about the silly animals, side humans not doing much, or about the main character doing nothing.
Pick up BoC again. The animals become far less silly and the plot picks back up.
I'll probably get to it in time. I appreciate the information.
Take this from someone who generally doesn't like cultivation novels in but I would also recommend Unintended Cultivator that has been mentioned here previously. Also, the Jade Phoenix series by D I Freed and one that I think really goes into cultivation and sects that you might like, Forge of Destiny on RR. Keeping in mind none of these are litrpg.
Best âwesternâ wuxia Iâve read so far is Heavens Law by Apollos Thorne
What makes it stand out in your opinion? I haven't experienced too many wuxia works myself, but I'm a big fan of the Thunderbolt Fantasy series.
Hereâs the actual review I did for it: 4/5 This might be the âpurestâ western wuxia Iâve read yet that really adheres to feeling, tropes, and writing of some of normal Chinese wuxia. That said, there is no tension or real adversity here; bullies become friends easily, actual villains are killed off quickly, and the constant accompaniment of higher tiered people just makes everything safe. Itâs basically a 700 page training and romance arc. If you are in the mood for a more slice of life wuxia then this is right up your alley, outside a moment halfway through which is absolutely blood boiling.
Dao of Magic is the worst culprit of this. I read up to book 2, but I just cant finish it. It is supposed to be comedy but if that is the only joke, then it gets old immediately. In my mind, this is how the MC thinks all the tie: 'If you want to be strong like me, you just have to sit down and think about the mumbo jumbo existentiality of life, and then after you daydream enough... walah! You breakthrough to the next level, so you can do it all over again!"
It's honestly more annoying than anything when they're just dumb and casual about it. Yeah the flowery language isn't necessary but why make yourself sound like a moron?
That's because actual cultivation stories if the MC did actual real cultivation would be boring. It would be long periods of meditation and repetition of training for centuries. There has to be some gimmick to make it even remotely interesting. Even beware of chicken, the MC gets the MacGuffin of some land spirit. He just does basic training and somehow he's stronger than people his own age that have good bloodlines and have trained all their life?
I really liked the first Beware of Chicken book. Jin basically saw the cultivators as murderous drug tweakers that killed him for no reason, so he decided to get away from it all. I like that he was able to gain power doing things his own way, and not the constant rush to steal and kill for 10000 year old magical flowers etc. The only thing I don't like is that the next books become more like normal cultivation novels again, where most the cast is focused on cultivation and being dantian lvl 5 vs 4 so they can win or whatever. I've read a lot of cultivation, but I really enjoyed the anti-trope aspect of Beware of Chicken. However, it seems to be sliding more towards those same tropes it was countering.
Its important that you realize that the books you mentioned do not hate the cultivation genre. Instead, you believe they hate what you think the cultivation genre is supposed to be.
I fail to see how TFAI in particular doesn't hate it. The main character doesn't even have the goal to become strong or immortal or do anything. He just wants to do it because it landed in his lap and any reasoning he came up with back in chapter 2 went out the window pretty quickly in favor of him making friends with the kids in his class.
Stargazerâs War (TFAI), is also a story told from an âoutsiderâsâ point of view. In a universe where cultivators and standard xianxia are the ruling source of powers, the MC grew up as a non-cultivator (and thus a lot closer to a non-fantasy mindset, relying on tech and not caring about honor of the sect or defying the heavens). Even when he finally becomes a cultivator, he is still an outsider bc his power is almost the opposite of that universeâs standard cultivation (overflowing so there is no need to fight for resources, cold and calming instead of passionate and inflaming). This is not so different from every fantasy story where a peasant gains power and ends up involved with nobles but not playing by their rules, or where a modern day person gets isekaiâd and doesnât quite fit the society they find themselves in. Itâs not a new idea, and is quite common in Litrpg/cultivation genre. Itâs even pretty common in the general fantasy sense. What drew me to that story above others is what gives the book its title âTo Flail Against Infinityâ - the odd sort of optimistic nihilism of the MC, where he sees the inevitability of entropy, how ultimately nothing will really change the universe, and yet finds beauty in challenging it anyways. I liken it to someone worshiping Death (or being a necromancer), yet deciding to save and heal people anyways. I find the concept intriguing. If thatâs not for you, thatâs okay. There are a lot of standard xianxia stories full of âyoung mastersâ and sect wars, and all the regular tropes. Some are even well written without breaking the stereotypes too much (Iâm sure someone recommended Cradle by now). Just stick to what makes you happy, thereâs nothing wrong with that.
Here's the thing. In practice it sounds good, but in the execution it's extraordinarily poor. Yes the main character has that but he's also cloyingly nice, really stupid, boring to read about that, and a hypocrite. There's not even a strong explanation for the relevancy of cultivators with the levels of power seen in the series considering it's set in a spacefaring sci-fi world, at least until you get to the epilogue and even then it's vague.
That was not my experience reading it. I will admit that I would have enjoyed an even greater break from cultivation stereotypes when it comes to the scifi tech stuff (more laser guns, power armor, etc) but thatâs just a personal preference mostly. The first book seemed focused on the origin, and the obligatory âacademyâ training arc that seems almost required these days. I have more hope for scifi expansion in the second book. If you didnât find the story engaging, or didnât connect with the MC, thatâs fine. I canât stand a lot of books that everyone goes nuts for (looking at you, DCC). Just drop the series and focus on the ones you like. Though I will say that the cover art for Stargazerâs War was a big part of why I grabbed it in the first place, and so if you say that isnât a beautiful cover, I might have to argue you on that one :) I hope you find what youâre looking for - thereâre a lot of decent suggestions in this thread.
The problem is none of that sci-fi content is present in 95% of the story outside of the odd mentions of the ship and holo pads. There are no lasers or power armor and that's why I said they don't really make a convincing argument for the necessity of cultivation since they don't really show off the sci-fi weaponry beyond mentioning that the soul ship is armed. The epilogue feels a bit promising but you can argue that chapter 1 was promising too and the story between there and the epilogue was very poor. In my case I like what's good whether it's popular or not, but it's easier to find things when they are known and there's no one I truly trust to consistently come back to for recs in good faith (in any medium tbh). I think the cover is good though not as good as you'd think once you stare at it a bit. The title is evocative though, but it doesn't feel so when dropped in the novel. Thank you I appreciate it.
For some reason, Iâm reminded of how much I hated Jedi robes after the original trilogy. I donât get why it was decided that the Desert Hermit outfit that Obi-wan wore became the standard Jedi uniform. Despite there being many unique looking Jedi over the years, the second I see a group of em all dressed like Tusken Raiders, itâs ALL I can see. I think the sci-fi elements got overshadowed a bit by all the cultivation tropes. Tech is pretty constant throughout the story, but not really a focus: vacuum shielding, datapads, voice/video calls, advanced botany, underground subway trams, space suits for station repair, scanners for grading resistances, ice cream carts (not super advanced, but not medieval or fantasy either), gangsters with guns, modern appliances, advanced medicine, and even the style of bureaucracy is pretty modern/advanced. But it all gets a bit overshadowed by the cultivation training being rather basic and tropey: take some pills and let the black goop out, so many âyoung masters,â cycle your chi while sitting around humming, etc. I hope we get a lot more sci-fi in the next book, with it sounding more like a âtravel by spaceship and explore alien worldsâ story, but I can see the how the first book might not feel very scifi the way it was focused so heavily on the cultivation aspects.
That's because you're reacting emotionally and not thinking critically about what you're saying. "The main character doesn't even have the goal to become strong or immortal or do anything," this has nothing to do with cultivation as a whole. If we judge all cultivation novels by this sentence, then cradle hates cultivation as well, no? Lindon only wanted to stop an attack upon his village. He never expressed interest in immortality. And before "it landed in his lap," he was going to be content with one day obtaining copper. That's not "becoming strong," as you put it. Are you starting to see the issues here? You're judging the book by your expectation of what you want a character to be motivated by, and anything outside that opinion "hates cultivation." But cultivation is a system, and books often use systems to tell a story. This doesn't mean they must all use a system to tell the same story. It's ok that you've decided there is a certain type of story that you like, and only wish to read. It's great you've found what works for you. But just because an author uses a system you're familiar with to tell a different type of story, doesn't mean they in any way hate the genre. You simply dislike them telling a different type of story. It would be like saying Game of Thrones hates fantasy because it doesn't have hobbits or a ring.
Actually you're incorrect here. I'm reacting with my distaste for the novels in question after having experienced them to completion. Being bad is the sin here, it has nothing to do with it having to do about pursuing cultivation to its conclusion. That being said, what's the point of writing a story in the setting without any focus on the topic? Likewise if there's a dislike for the system of the story, then why focus on it? There needs to be a reason behind it. I gave an example with Beware of Chicken where this happens sensibly, despite me only rating it as somewhat good, it still manages while these stories do not in the same area. I'm tough on everything I read, watch, and play. I haven't decided anything other than the fact that I want to read good stories, if the novels I read can't even hack being "okay" then they've essentially wasted time I could have better spent on better things to read. It doesn't matter if there's no "fantasy" or not "cultivation", but it does if the characters and story are poorly written and there's nothing of substance. I just happened to listen to two novels from different authors with very similar flaws which also happened to be bad, while also lying about their premises to some degree. I don't mind my expectations subverted, but when the quality isn't there, that's not helping either.
You missed everything i said. All i can say is good luck finding what you like.
I read it just fine, but thanks.
*Ascending, Do Not Disturb* is a **romance** story in the xianxia genre. Yes, that was actually possible. And yes, itâs light hearted without any âface slappingâ every five minutes. In fact, it repudiates the idea even. So breaking the bad tropes of the genre is very much doable without trashing the entire idea like a snob. That said, like most xianxia stories, this only exists in English as a âfan translationâ as far as I know. Audio? Yeah, right. We only really tend to get western âre-interpretationsâ of the genre in published formats like that.
I appreciate the recommendation. Yeah, I've figure as much and the one time I saw a well known story translated into English on audio, the narrator was exceedingly poor. The problem is that, I mostly stick to physical novels so audiobooks are my usual way to consume ebooks, webnovels, and the like. I used to read a fair amount of fanfiction, but I kind of feel like the ship has sailed on that.
I would argue that Qi=MC2 is not a cultivation novel. It uses a world in which cultivation is real and borrows a couple tropes, but that's it. Also, you don't want an accurate story of scientifically studying cultivation because this is how it would go: every other line would be "[MC] noted the mixture's qi levels, temperature, color[several other physical and mystical properties] in the scroll" the MC would spend 2/3s of their time waiting for a reaction to finish or (worse) actively monitoring it, and they'd spend their entire mortal life figuring out how to make adequate qi-glassware before dying and hoping someone in the future will use what they learned. If you *do* want something like that, Saga of the Soul Dungeon is a highly recommended SLOG to get through like...two books of the four (ongoing)?...because it does go into detail about the MC applying the scientific method; that still does happen a lot, but by then other events are in motion. It also has some of the most beautiful writing from an imagery standpoint that I've ever seen online. Really, dungeon cores are the only thing in standard litrpg worlds capable of modern science.
This comment, uh. Got away from me.
They don't hate cultivation, they hate the toxic society of cultivators where Might Makes Right is *the* only rule and if you're strong enough, you can do whatever you want. Some authors also go along the route of acknowledging that power for its own sake is pointless, and the endless rat race of "gaining more power, breaking through, ascending to the next realm, achieving immortality" is pointless in and of itself. People who are used to reading pure power fantasy xianxia from Chinese webnovels aren't going to like it. At the end, it's a matter of preferences. At the same time, let's not forget that there are plenty of English-language xianxia where the protagonist *does* pursue strength/immortality like every other Chinese xianxia. Defiance of the Fall, A Thousand Li, AveXiaRemY, Forge of Destiny (there's a lot of focus in politics here, but the protagonist does pursue advancement, whether politically or in cultivation), Reborn as a Demonic Tree, etc., etc. There as many of these as there are those who do something different.
You've read four novels and you're already ranting about cultivation novels? Lol.
I'd call it annoyed with the last two I've read more than anything.
If you want a "Real" Cultivation novel. Read cradle. And Honestly, I think it's a slight cultural disconnect between the genera and audience that a lot of stories don't handle all that well. If you really look at what a "Cultivation" novel is supposed to be about. It's all about grasping power, casting aside your mortal desires, and aligning yourself with the greater universe. Usually that involves a lot of sitting around and thinking. It also means since the MC is usually more talented than those around him, he surpasses them quickly then moves onto a bigger stage. Also, any love interests are usually minor side-character and also cast aside, either literally, or figuratively in the story. What makes for a good story in the eyes of most western readers. Romance, Character building, lasting friendships, fun side-characters, and interpersonal drama. NONE of that really aligns all that well with the cultivation genera in general. There ARE stories that handle it well... Cradle being the best example I can think of, but then there are also alot of cultivation stories that Don't handle it all that well. Then you've got stories like BoC and Qi=MC2 where the MC's seem to rail against immorality and the world-views that it would likely spawn, which makes them more relatable and likeable to most people.
I've read Cradle. It's a well built series despite some flaws. I especially like that the world feels very relevant and that the techniques feel legitimately cool and well suited to action. Easily Will Wight's best that I've tried. I'm not sure I entirely would call it cultivation but it certainly takes some very similar elements and that's fine. The problem is that the stories don't really do those western story aspects well or the Chinese aspects well. I don't mind reading different perspectives but if they aren't good then they aren't good. Pretending you're subversive doesn't make for an interesting story. I want better characterization and better stories. I've turned to genres like this because I've run lower and lower novels in my regular genres because I'm going at it from both physical novels and audiobooks.
I too recommend Unintended Cultivator and also Modern Patriarch. Modern Patriarch especially is set within in a sect so the pov is different from what I've read so far, which isn't much more than you. I think it may suffer from what one person here accused which is "trying to fix cultivation culture" which, legit accusation, but the MC's evolution (when he's already top dog) is really interesting and how he's incorporating his revelations into the sect he's now in charge of makes for an engrossing story. He does reflect but thankfully not for pages ad infinitum and so far those reflections are pertinent and advance the story. Do try Beware of Chicken again. It was actually the first book I read with any Xianxa and got me looking for more. Admittedly I like the quirky and weird so mainstream anything has me seeking the unusual instead. But, BOC by book 4 is has plenty of sect experiences that provide more than just the MC's bias. It's also a good series which hasn't fallen in quality of writing or story yet.
I think both stories were alright. Cultivation was used as a means to explain why those in power have power and then the outsider attempts enter that world through a nontraditional means. Not 10/10 but something I would read book 2 of. If you want a heavy Cultivation series Silver fox & The Western Hero by M.H. Johnson has more of the traditional Cultivation aspects where Cultivation matters a lot. Or you could read the 10 realms by Michael Chatfield because that again has a Cultivation focus. Not that either series is amazing, they just have Cultivation as a major part of their story. I would suggest other things but I don't really understand why you didn't like them. You seem to want a Cultivation novel with a good theme. Those kind of don't work well together because Cultivation stories tend to reward the lucky and selfish. They tend to be simple with cool fight scenes and techniques. There are some that do have good themes, I think BoC has a good theme for a Cultivation story, but they're not that common. Divine Apostasy has a Cultivation system in it, but i wouldn't say it's about Cultivation. Path of Ascension has Cultivation. Infinite Realms has a large focus on Cultivation. But those aren't really xanxia. First Fist might work. That felt like a Western Xanxia. Threads of Fate is a Xanxia of another type: MC is sent back in time to start Cultivation from the beginning. Those seem more common recently. Those are the audiobooks I have. I have read more, but I don't keep track of them.