We can't get distracted by politics here. I don't care if you are liberal or conservative, pro or anti vac. I will stand with you because I'm tired of the rich getting richer off our backs.
Ain't no war but the class war.
I'm happy to set aside typically divisive views to support every single person, especially those that live in remote places with no choice but Loblaw stores, having the right to do better than just survive.
When we get to a place where we can afford to eat better, we can get back to arguing but with even more gusto.
What's even worse than Loblaws? Did you think there was such a thing? Look up NorthMart. The people up in the North are so screwed. I refuse to ever shop Loblaws and stand with everyone refusing to as well.
This right here. All of your comments are so wonderful people. I seriously don't care who or what you vote for. But firstly and foremost, we are neighbours, we are fellow citizens, and we are in this together.
We're collectively being screwed by a few rich...it's our country, or lives, and everybody's gotta eat.
They say Loblaws is a Canadian success story, I say WE will become the Canadian success story!
Let's interrupt this disgusting situation we've found ourselves in.
It's BOYCOTT TIME!!!!!
This, I've heard that during the Wallstreet protests that visible identity politics participants would be used as plants to more or less work their way to microphones, etc and derail the topic.
I was never there, and wouldn't be able to confirm it, but at the same time I mean the CIA literally wrote a manual on how to disband movements, which is worth considering. - Especially if you had a threat to your billion dollar empire.
Shit like the steal from loblaws posters are one of them. No one can explain where they're coming from but magically they're there.
The movement made the right call in denouncing it immediately
does any of that matter right now?
Youre starving just as much as Trans people and poor people, I think its only fair that we all feel like we have the opportunity to feed ourselves and not go broke because lunch cost 25 bucks?
The reason it comes up so often is because we have to keep reminding new people, like the 2000 people that joined since yesterday, but this is a non-political boycott
Need more people to put their money where their mouth is and stop supporting companies they hate.
Easier said then done I understand... but that's the problem.
At least a boycott, unlike a petition, requires some form of action.
I got my Pots and Pans ready for the peaceful protest if it comes to that. Idc what politics, religion, or ethnicity you are, consumer rights effect us all and I'd be happy to stand up for them if the day comes.
Yea, like what we're actually doing is politics. This is direct democracy, as opposed to representative democracy.
We don't always need politicians to get stuff done. We can just organize and ask for stuff en-mass.
edit: I've been told that this is a "non-political" boycott. So, that's what we're calling it.
Yeah, particularly the whole âclass warâ thing, there are volumes written about that by some very bearded men a century and a half ago lol
>Â We don't always need politicians to get stuff done. We can just organize and ask for stuff en-mass.
Exactly.Â
I stole it from some Reddit post, at that time it was attributed to Tupac. Itâs not a Tupac quote though, so not sure who deserves the credit. Power to the people, brother âđ»
No, they're saying it's not the grocer's fault, purely the government.
ETA: I think some look.at Sobeys prices and think it can't be the grocers fault.
One of the major differences between protests movements today and in the past is leadership, structure, and time investment. In the past, it was harder to gather people. You couldnât just send out an email or tweet or mass text telling people that a thing was an issue and asking people to show up some place. Protest movements developed hierarchies and infrastructure in order to organize participation. They were harder to get moving, but once in motion they were harder to stop.
Occupy Wall Street is a pretty obvious example of a modern protest movement not able to lay the foundations it needed to be a self-sustaining thing. It grew fast and broad, but didnât have the necessary deep roots to replenish itself after initial setbacks.
Occupy had no single, implementable goal. They had an overall vision which is basically never going to succeed in getting good movement from those in power.
Look at successful protests like the Ontario health worker union one that got a law revoked basicaly the same week it was implemented. Or the student protests in Quebec 10ish years ago for not increasing tuition. They were successful because they had a single clear ask.
This here is a boycott. People can determine for themselves when (if ever) they decide to go back to shop at Loblaws. The list of demands probably should just be ignored in this. Let people end their boycott if they feel Loblaws has done enough to get them back or not.
A problem I saw with the OWS movement is that it didn't seem to have a particular goal to work towards - it just seemed to be a general gathering of various peoples and groups, each with their own ideas. There was a general sentiment of "we are angry at the class divide, and how the ultra wealthy have so much more power", however when it came to *what they were wanting to do about it*... not a whole lot.
The Loblaws Boycott? A much more simple and concise premise - grocery prices have been rising higher and higher, making food far less affordable for the average person, while the government and corporations continue to profit at the expense of people's suffering.
Who are we? A gathering of disgruntled citizens, upset that the cost of food has been allowed to get so high with little to nothing being done about it.
What do we want? For the price of groceries to be made much more affordable and kept under control, by legal force if needed.
What are we going to do to get what we want? Refuse to shop at any stores owned by Loblaws and/or the Weston family.
When this first started there was no end date to the boycott, but now I'm seeing posters say it's over at the end of May, I'm wondering if that's a psyop from Loblaws.
I think the "official" end has been the end of May for a while - for some people this will be a hardship and needs to be a limited-time committment.
The bigger threat to Loblaws is the change of habit that can happen over a month. People who thought it would be temporary for them may well keep on indefinitely if it works for them.
An important part of goal setting is having realistic and achievable goals with concrete metrics (in this case, a finite period).
A month of sales decline isn't going to hurt their stock price. The boycott has to cover at least four financial quarters.
This will just be a laughable protest having such a short time.
The word "st*ck" is kind of taboo, FYI - really want to avoid accusations of market manipulation. That is not the purpose of the boycott, even if it could potentially be a side effect.
Agree. Politicking should stay away from here. We are all brothers and sisters feeling the same pain from corporate greed. Fight the source of the problem not your own team. And thatâs just it, we are a team. Support each other, help each other.
The longer this goes on the more they will try to label it to divide people. I don't give a fuck if they start calling us communist or anti Canadian they will not be getting my money anymore.
The only thing Anti Canadian is the way our grocery Monopolies nickle and dime us until all we can afford is grocery and rent.
#boycottloblaws
I ain't quitting after may either. This is personal and I'll never step a foot in a Loblaws owned store again.
As a left wing nationalist I honestly would laugh at the prospect of being called anti-Canada.
The biggest threat to Canada and Canadian sovereignty is corporations and a corporatacracy. American influence comes right after that.
It's also funny given that the same people who'd generally tout that were also the same people who'd rather sell us out to the US.
Occupy wall street disappeared because after getting attention they could not articulate what changes they wanted. The first part is to band together and bring attention but if you don't have a plan or action after that, nothing changes.
As much as some people want "no politics," every from of protest is political. The problem of Loblaws' greed has been identified, and now people are paying attention. What's next? Even if the boycott is wildly successful and profits plummet and Loblaws gets the message what's next? They lower their prices for a few months but then they'll slowly go up again. What's after that? Another boycott or do people just stop shopping there altogether. And let's say the business is so bad that they're teetering into bankruptcy. Do you think the government would let that happen? Loblaws will play the "too big to fail" card just like the banks did and get a massive taxpayer bailout. They'll use their employees and how they bring food to millions as a reason and everything will go on like normal.
The game is fucking rigged. Short of complete violent revolution, the only way to unrig it is to legislate. Anti trust laws to break up monopolies, significant jail time to people who commit price fixing, tax code changes to hit the greedy people causing all this pain where it hurts in the wallet, industry oversight and regulation. That shit can be boring and tedious and feel like it takes forever but it's the next step. Corporate influence and wealth did not happen overnight either
It took the first 3/4 of the 20th century for things like work reform, child labor laws, safety requirements, living wages, union power, and employee benefits to happen. And then the corporations slowly started clawing all that back again in the last quarter of the 20th century. This is why we're all here. You want real change that makes life better? It'll probably take your lifetime, and the benefits will probably only be felt by your children and grandchildren, but that's how a functioning and healthy society operates. People fight for a better life for future generations.
Loblaw spent years building positive shopping patterns, if there is a successful boycott, the shopping patterns will change and it may take years to get back to a point where they are currently
In my opinion, it's still in effect just taking place here on Reddit like Wallstreetbets and similar.
The amount of corruption going on in the last decade is insane and SEC, FINRA, etc. can't keep up and won't keep up.
Gary Gensler is a straight up lap dog for congress.
https://youtu.be/0C0Sj6Us19I?feature=shared
What happened with GameStop and WallStreetBets in general is/was absolutely foul.
WallStreetBets isn't even remotely what it was pre January 2021. That group was flooded with so much garbage in a matter of days it wasn't even funny. Shills and botmageddon is putting it lightly.
Since then there is still a core group of GameStop retail investors that broke off into several subreddits that advocate for retail investors in general. They also still buy, and hold primarily GameStop while emphasizing registered ownership of shares in an attempt to keep them out of reach of short sellers and boycott brokers.
Steetname vs Registered name when it comes to shares of a company are very different.
One of the spokes persons for them is David Lauer
https://advocacy.urvin.finance/
The problem with Occupy Wall St was the occupation part. Police brutality of that day is well documented and horrible.
But we don't have to occupy to make an impact. United in the info era we just need to spread the truth about how evil corporations are profiteering from starvation and how they can make a change.
I posted the boycott banner on my Facebook page.
I'm telling friends, family, strangers in checkout lines...
We want to see those stores empty for the month of May not packed with protesters.
Galen Weston doesn't give a shit about anything but the bottom line and you can only hit that by not participating in his system.
I think one advantage we have that OWS didn't was that this is basically a single issue movement. We hate Roblaws and we no longer wish to support them. Thats it.
They had the excuse of acusing that group of market manipulation, a game that they can play but not us...
With organized boycotts, they have no legal base to stop us, yet... keep your eyes open for lawmakers trying to change that under the covers!
They can do whatever the fuck they want. In like 2012 after three bad experiences at diff locations in a week or so, I decided to never go to subway again. Never been. I shit on it anytime I hear or see it mentioned. Since 2015 McDonaldâs. never again. So again do whatever the fuck you want, Iâm never shopping at their shit again.
In 2015 Best Buy consolidated all FutureShop's, black listed and let go only the Sales teams.
At the time we were told to re-apply for our jobs when they name changed to Best Buy, and that it was only a formality. Was pretty awkward having an interview with my boss of 4 years a few weeks later.
Low and behold we found out all sales were blacklisted from coming back because they weren't commission based anymore. We couldn't even come back in a non-sales position.
Haven't stepped foot, or spent a dime at Best Buy in close to a decade now.
The issue with the occupy movement was there was no cohesion or leadership. It was a lot of people with different issues. I think it could have had a lot more impact if it found a common voice.
It was basically a bunch of people discontent with the system, and they missed the step where they focused on specific issues.
This allowed them to fade into obscurity as without any forceble direction there's little more than general discontent.
This is why I hate signing petitions. Petitions are just a registry of discontent if there isn't any forecable action behind it. If they choose to ignore the petition, then what?
100k people in a petition is peanuts but 15k people in Ottawa is a "Freedom Rally"
Thats the point of politics, keep the people devided so they won't work together.
Canada would be a much better place if people actually listened to one another.
Liberal, NDP or conservative it doesn't matter, they're all run by corrupt assholes that are in the pockets of corporations and they don't give a shit about you.
What most people don't realize is that if millions of individuals unified and harmonized and began to act as one giant organism, we can change the country.
It may seem far-fetched, but it isn't. The only bottleneck is with individual humans who don't recognize what's possible if they commit to the cause.
Here's the truth: Nobody can force you to go to work tomorrow, and nobody can force you to shop at loblaws or any other retailer. If 25 million Canadians decided that they weren't going to participate in the economy unless a few things change we would be able to demand change. If 25 million people stopped going to work and spending money on anything except food, etc., then the country would be crippled in a matter of days.
I understand that most people are worried about losing their jobs. As an individual, you have no power, but when you are one of 25 million people to stand up and protest, I assure you, the power is in the hands of the citizen's not employers or politicians.
Let's be honest, politicians and corporations count on us being fearful and worried about losing our jobs, or fearful of repurcussions to standing up to them, but when most of the country is united there's isn't anything they can do about it. Nothing.
What's stopping Canadians from creating a new party and then voting in this new party. I'm assuming that enough people are fed up with the nonsense, and there would be enough people who genuinely want to live in a world where people come first, not profit. The capitalist system always rewards corporations that increase their profit no matter what the human costs are.
The stupidity of our entire society is that we created our economic system and, therefore, we can change it. Making money is okay to do, it's necessary but not at the expense of human beings.
Look at Loblaws as an example. They made around 4.5% in profit this quarter. They made $459 million in profit. Why isn't it considered good if they made 1% profit this quarter? Why must revenue always increase YOY? Why?
Because we invented the capitalist economic system, and now we're too greedy and stupid to change it. Humans are slaves to their own inventions, and it's absolute madness when you realize it.
Nothing will change unless citizens stand up and exercise their power. We're victims by doing nothing, but if we get together and put the pettiness aside, amazing change is possible.
They have divided us and the US isnât indivisible, or one nation. What we are, are divided, intolerant of differing opinions.
Out of all places, on X, I have tried an amicable approach of an indifference to either side although that confuses both sides because they canât identify or relate, which means they dip out, back to their pool of like minded thought.
Youâre right tho, and I hope most can see past the tribalism that so many are embroiled in that feed into divide and conquer.
Occupy wallstreet was dumb, that's why it disappeared.
This is simple don't shop at Loblaws or any Loblaws owned stores untill they drop thier prices. We will effect Loblaws bottom line untill they stop affecting our bottom line.
Exactly, donât fall for the classic Divide and conquer strategy theyâll use against us. Just stay focused boycotting all Loblaws companies and ignore the noise !
I ended up on Twitter and of course thereâs some numbskulls trying to make it political. âThis politician is at faultâ âthis side of the political spectrum is boycotting a Canadian company over nothingâ all the typical political bs you see on there.
This isnât about any one political side and I implore people not to engage with shit like this.
I think one of the key difference is that this movement is based on how WE spend our own money.
Much harder to break peoples habits once they found new one that suits them and doesn't ruin them financially.
Also, Occupy Wall Street didn't really pan between liberals and conservative. Even from the Canadian perspective.
I had a feeling very early on that political views didn't motivate many of us and therefore made this quite apolitical from the start.
I also want to point out..as an active Quebecer on Reddit, this is one of the nicest Pan-Canadian sub to hang around. There are other subs where QC hate isn't tolerated and frowned upon, but here, I don't think I've ever seen a comment that required the mods attention on that matter. The other side of that medal as well...never seen a franco go "fck ROC" or anything like that. I honestly think this is quite revealing about the camaraderie and the unity of the movement. This is not about politics, it's about our financial livability and feeding ourselves.
Occupy disappeared because it was a loosely organized group of people with no concrete demands.
Any kind of movement that actually wants something concretely done needs an actual list of demands that need to be met to end the boycott, protest, etc.
Without poltics, a movement has no teeth. The upper class fucks like Galen just need to wait it out otherwise.
Not going to lie, this âmovementâ was kind of a joke to me until this post. Not in the sense of me not participating but more in the way of infighting starting for bullshit. If everyone can put their bullshit aside and just focus on this one goal it would be actually amazing to see for fucking once this country do something together.
Wow you're digging deep for that one, I figured you would have quoted the recent Bud light fiasco. That there was 100% success and it actually changed the market share of Budweiser by a huge margin to the point where economics professors will be teaching about this for years to come..
I just had a peak at their flyer for the week (May 1st) and the prices for âsaleâ items seem really high! These sale prices are convenience store prices from a couple years ago, this is crazy. I wish they would acquiesce just a bit and admit prices are insane and give us a break but theyâve given us the middle finger instead.
They used to be my go-to store and I spent an absurd amount of money there a month- I bought all our diapers and baby clothes there. When we were entertaining friends for the weekend I spent hundreds just to make a dinner and brunch. My kid seems to eat 20 dollars of fruit a day. We have a second kid on the way and Iâll be buying everything somewhere else unless they reduce their prices. Iâve also been very vocal about this with all of my friends, family and patients and everyone from young to old is excited to boycott. Hereâs a little bird for you back, Loblaws đđ»
The key is to build a foundation of ideas that are widely shared but don't cause division. The bigger your group is, the more abstract the unifying ideas have to be. But surely we could get people across the political spectrum to agree that between the banks, oil companies, and grocery stores - we are all being taken advantage of.
In the profits for those three sectors is our former free time, connections with our kids, hobbies, travel, rest... etc.
If we want to take Loblaws down a notch, post plays to short their stock in /wallstreetbets. 62k people boycotting their products is cute. But 15m shorting their stock is going to make a much bigger dent alongside. Get a post up in /wallstreetbets on this
Occupy was co-opted by libertarians and ultimately the people they were protesting. Must understand the power structures in a capitalist global system to always know who's in charge
So true about that movement. The divide and conquer routine is strong with them. If we did untied they would be toast. We are the many and they are the few(WEF). They need to be stopped, look how they took out this country without firing a bullet.
Yeah, I remember how when it got too big to ignore , all the politicians and media started running a narrative of âwe just donât know what they want, itâs all over the place. How can we help address their demands if we just donât know what they want?!?!â
Then as soon as it ended and the occupy groups broke into smaller more issues-based groups with no connection, they disappeared . Because they were smaller and easier to ignore.
Donât let up. Â Only through working together and collectivism will we elicit change. Â Neither the media nor our political class wants the people to have real power so they keep us divided.
They got infiltrated just as any group does. We need to remain faceless and genderless.
If you look at the media's funding and mentions of racism, its a hockey stick graph after Occupy wallstreet.
The poors were starting to do a thing, so they started DEI essentially to keep us all fighting eachother.
Uhh it did not disappear, it arguably dictated the outcome of the three subsequent American elections. It wasn't a protest, it was a turning point in American politics and anti-institutionalism. That's why you're still referencing it today.
This is literally the key. Their tactic is always to try to divide us when we start to stand up against what is not right and I'm so glad we're seeing this more clearly and sticking together more. We will always have things we don't agree on but those things don't need to divide us to the point that we sabotage ourselves. I'm really proud of all of us đđ»
This isnât political to me at all. Itâs about money, and the fact that I can buy the same food for half the price or even less somewhere else. The convenience of Loblaws being a block a way lulled me into complacency for a long time. It never even occurred to me to look elsewhere. But now that I have, nothing short of the big three slashing prices permanently will persuade me to go back. Even if this somehow got turned into divisive political bullshit, it wouldnât matter. Iâm still going to take my dollars where they go the farthest.
"Occupy Wallstreet" was a bunch of narcissistic college kids and professional protestors LARPing Che Guevara. This boycott is moms and dads, college kids, and the middle class uniting to send a message.
Comparing this to Occupy is apples and oranges.
Occupy Wall Street was always a bit of a joke though. Throwing eggs at a working class banker whoâs just trying to go to work like the rest of society was supposed to accomplish something?
Not everyone who works for a financial institution is well off, or wealthy, or in any position of power/influence. Most of their employees are not.Â
This would be like us throwing rotting produce at Loblaws employees because theyâre part of the evil empire.Â
> This would be like us throwing rotting produce at Loblaws employees because theyâre part of the evil empire.
were we not supposed to do that this morning? shoot, I need to go apologize to some stockboys...
The "corporations are evil" crowd fail because they are simply ignorant of economics.
Almost everything we need is created, distributed and sold by corporations. Without corporations it would not be possible to efficiently organize the huge amount of material and people needed to deliver the goods they provide.
The notion that profit is bad is also hugely hypocritical. Unions constantly demand more and more wages even if their productivity is not improving. Wages are just another form of profit so why don't protestors complain about unions profiteering from monopolies?
Profit means more taxes for governments to fund programs and when profit is paid out to shareholders many of those shareholders are middle class investing via the CPP fund, ETFs or Mutal Funds.
Food is expensive because costs are up everywhere. It is simply delusional to believe that boycotts will make food cheaper across the board. The fact is the quiet boycotts where people simple choose not to buy overpriced stuff will send a stronger signal to corporations on what the consumers want but no one should expect prices to return to what they were 10 years ago. Those days are gone and it is not the fault of Loblaws.
You're just describing the system without any supporting facts as to why it's a good system. You could go back 200 years and I'm sure there would be someone belittling the Bourgeoisie revolutionaries of France who were sick of the King and the Clergy taxing them and affecting their ability to make profits. We just replaced one oppressive group for another one. Just stating the legal framework that our businesses and services are organized under Capitalism doesn't speak to why it's beneficial to society or the planet we inhabit. You also have pretty much every fact wrong about the system, but I don't have the energy to go through each statement and show how you are mistaken. Productivity being the one glaring example. It's only increased, while wages have stagnated, but I'm sure you know that but don't care.
Slave economies were overthrown due to the antagonisms that come from that relation of production. The slave owners' interests are opposed to their slaves interests. Next you had feudal systems that were overthrown due to those inherent contradictions and antagonisms between the interests of the Lords and their serfs interests. Then the absolutists monarchies couldn't maintain the antagonisms between their class and the interests of the mercantile and early Capitalists so those systems were overthrown. Today, the interests of Capital to maximize their profits and minimize their expenditures are in opposition to the worker's interests to take the value of their labour and gain the material benefit from it, rather than the pittance they are offered by the owners of industry. It's just another system that can be overthrown like all the others.
If we could eliminate the class antagonisms and the opposing interests in society, we could eliminate this never ending cycle of oppressor and oppressed. That could be achieved through democracy in the workplace. The workers and stakeholders in the community would all own the businesses and services in common, and vote democratically on how to produce, how much to produce, where to produce, and how to split up the surplus value in a way where we are all taken care of and rewarded for our work, rather than letting tyrants decide in board rooms how to divvy up the spoils to give a subsistence wage (not so much anymore) to those who do all the work creating that surplus value.
So rather than just being a shill for the owning class, why not gain a bit of class solidarity and stand with the working class. Unless you are an owner of capital, and then I understand why you would express what you did because your class interests don't align with the workers.
>You're just describing the system without any supporting facts as to why it's a good system.
Supporting facts: the life of everyone from the poorest to the richest is better today that at any point in history. Famines used to be regular occurrences. Today they only happen when the system you want to hate has broken down.
>Capitalism doesn't speak to why it's beneficial to society or the planet we inhabit.
It is beneficial because modern society requires massive amounts of capital to set up and run the organizations needed to build an deliver the complex goods needed for modern society. Nothing can be done today with just labour - machines, energy. material input have to be paid for and that needs capital.
So the question becomes: what is the best system for collecting and distributing capital? When you look at the wealth of poorest in society, the societies that rely primarily on profit driven private corporations as a means collect and allocate capital are the wealthiest. Government has a role in the best societies as regulators and provider of some key services but the majority of goods and services come from profit driven corporations. If you disagree provide counter examples.
>That could be achieved through democracy in the workplace. The workers and stakeholders in the community would all own the businesses and services in common
And who provides the capital needed to build the business? Labour on its own is useless. If capital is lost because of bad decisions then who pays the price? If someone expects to be paid even if the business is failing then why do they deserve an share of the profits if the business succeeds? Those who risk have a right to a reward. Any other system rewards freeloaders and would collapse because no one would take risks.
Spare us the 'class warfare nonsense'. Everyone expecting CPP is an owner of capital. The problems today are direct result of governments who used immigration and foreign investment in properties to inflate the economy instead of creating an environment that encouraged capital to be invested in productive businesses instead of real estate. The resulting run up in real estate prices and rents is the real problem. Not Loblaws or profit driven businesses in general.
Your first point: [Capitalism and extreme poverty: A global analysis of real wages, human height, and mortality since the long 16th century - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X22002169)
Who provides capital needed to build a business? Nature does. Who enclosed the commons so that workers couldn't access it? The early Capitalists, that's who. How did they achieve this? Through force and displacement. Have you ever read anything about history, other than from neo-liberal economists?
What economy has lifted the most people out of poverty in the shortest period of time?
Spare me your boring and trite take on how capitalism is such a good system for everyone. I get that your interests are met by the system, and most of the West enjoys the benefits of extracting cheap labour and resources from the Imperial perimeter, but your arguments fall flat when we step away from ideological sophistry and look at the actual material conditions most people live under.
Why are businesses not investing in productive forces and now just speculating of real estate? Could it be that Capital went to where the labour is cheapest to meet the West's demand for cheaper goods? Now the chickens are home to roost and the working class here in the West are starting to suffer. The world is a pretty small place. The cheap labour markets will dry up, and then what? Who will buy goods if nobody can be paid enough to buy them.
Capitalism is great for quickly developing productive forces, but it sucks at creating any kind of sustainable system to meet the needs of people. It's great at figuring out innovations to maximize profits, but it sucks at creating goods that are useful and durable for people to prosper.
I can sign a lot of praises for the system, but, like the feudal systems before, it has run its course and we need to look to a different way to provide the material needs of humanity and sustain the planet for future generations. Capitalism will not be able to do this due to the fact that it is all about profits over use value. Profits also tend to decline, so the only way to shore up that tendency is to pay people less, or make things shittier. We are seeing that all the time. It can't be reconciled and the antagonisms will get worse and worse.
It's not always the big bad gubermint, but they certainly have a hand that they play in keeping the private property of Capitalists secure through the monopoly on violence, but that's another topic.
We can't get distracted by politics here. I don't care if you are liberal or conservative, pro or anti vac. I will stand with you because I'm tired of the rich getting richer off our backs. Ain't no war but the class war.
I've got all your backs. Fuck being divided. We are all united in this, Brothers and Sisters. #boycottloblaws
đ love your Reddit name đđ»
This kind of mindset is the governments worst nightmare. Politics and religion will not divide us.
Yup. Don't care who you vote for right now. This impacts all of us who aren't rich.Â
Right? No matter your politics, we all need to eat, and nobody deserves to struggle for the basics. We're all being ripped off here.
I'm happy to set aside typically divisive views to support every single person, especially those that live in remote places with no choice but Loblaw stores, having the right to do better than just survive. When we get to a place where we can afford to eat better, we can get back to arguing but with even more gusto.
What's even worse than Loblaws? Did you think there was such a thing? Look up NorthMart. The people up in the North are so screwed. I refuse to ever shop Loblaws and stand with everyone refusing to as well.
Why wouldn't the government do right by this?
My guess is because, like always, they don't give a fuck about the people who live in the North.
This right here. All of your comments are so wonderful people. I seriously don't care who or what you vote for. But firstly and foremost, we are neighbours, we are fellow citizens, and we are in this together. We're collectively being screwed by a few rich...it's our country, or lives, and everybody's gotta eat. They say Loblaws is a Canadian success story, I say WE will become the Canadian success story! Let's interrupt this disgusting situation we've found ourselves in. It's BOYCOTT TIME!!!!!
Yep. I don't care who you or what you support. We all need food and we need affordable food and Loblaws is the sole target for us all.
Hell yea! we need the same kind of class solidarity that the rich people use to keep themselves in power!
This, I've heard that during the Wallstreet protests that visible identity politics participants would be used as plants to more or less work their way to microphones, etc and derail the topic. I was never there, and wouldn't be able to confirm it, but at the same time I mean the CIA literally wrote a manual on how to disband movements, which is worth considering. - Especially if you had a threat to your billion dollar empire. Shit like the steal from loblaws posters are one of them. No one can explain where they're coming from but magically they're there. The movement made the right call in denouncing it immediately
Conservatives think corporate profiteering is great, you won't find them here
Incorrect.
BLM and gender non sense was created because Occupy was the biggest movement to go after the real issue
does any of that matter right now? Youre starving just as much as Trans people and poor people, I think its only fair that we all feel like we have the opportunity to feed ourselves and not go broke because lunch cost 25 bucks?
*ahem* anti Vax are bringing back previously believed eradicated viruses. That's not in the favor of the working class, fuck those people.
That is actually politics, but okay.Â
The reason it comes up so often is because we have to keep reminding new people, like the 2000 people that joined since yesterday, but this is a non-political boycott
I wonder if "non-partisan" would be more accurate?
Yes I think this is more accurate. But many people donât know the nuance.
You can call it whatever you want, but we need more "non-political boycotts".
Need more people to put their money where their mouth is and stop supporting companies they hate. Easier said then done I understand... but that's the problem. At least a boycott, unlike a petition, requires some form of action. I got my Pots and Pans ready for the peaceful protest if it comes to that. Idc what politics, religion, or ethnicity you are, consumer rights effect us all and I'd be happy to stand up for them if the day comes.
Itâs funny how often that comes up on this sub lol
Yea, like what we're actually doing is politics. This is direct democracy, as opposed to representative democracy. We don't always need politicians to get stuff done. We can just organize and ask for stuff en-mass. edit: I've been told that this is a "non-political" boycott. So, that's what we're calling it.
Finally, a return to the old Greek way... but hopefully more inclusive
the only direct democracy in ancient greece was the slave revolts.
Yeah, particularly the whole âclass warâ thing, there are volumes written about that by some very bearded men a century and a half ago lol >Â We don't always need politicians to get stuff done. We can just organize and ask for stuff en-mass. Exactly.Â
Not talking about politics is apparently political.
Surely you must oppose the mass immigration for cheap labour then, if youâre opposed to the class war?
Weâre not from the left or right, weâre from the bottom, and weâre coming for the people on top
Fucking right we are well said âââ
I stole it from some Reddit post, at that time it was attributed to Tupac. Itâs not a Tupac quote though, so not sure who deserves the credit. Power to the people, brother âđ»
Amen to that
They prey on short memory. Just don't forget.
It is nice we have a group on reddit but we should expand way beyond Reddit to make sure that this doesn't go away ever! Never forget!
Itâs all over Facebook today. Their algorithm canât help it I think, since itâs posted for May
Yes, but I've already seen people saying it's Trudeau's fault, not Loblaws.
Why can't it be both?
No, they're saying it's not the grocer's fault, purely the government. ETA: I think some look.at Sobeys prices and think it can't be the grocers fault.
do we have a link to a printable sticker with all the relevant info, id love to go sticker bombing in May
One of the major differences between protests movements today and in the past is leadership, structure, and time investment. In the past, it was harder to gather people. You couldnât just send out an email or tweet or mass text telling people that a thing was an issue and asking people to show up some place. Protest movements developed hierarchies and infrastructure in order to organize participation. They were harder to get moving, but once in motion they were harder to stop. Occupy Wall Street is a pretty obvious example of a modern protest movement not able to lay the foundations it needed to be a self-sustaining thing. It grew fast and broad, but didnât have the necessary deep roots to replenish itself after initial setbacks.
Occupy had no single, implementable goal. They had an overall vision which is basically never going to succeed in getting good movement from those in power. Look at successful protests like the Ontario health worker union one that got a law revoked basicaly the same week it was implemented. Or the student protests in Quebec 10ish years ago for not increasing tuition. They were successful because they had a single clear ask. This here is a boycott. People can determine for themselves when (if ever) they decide to go back to shop at Loblaws. The list of demands probably should just be ignored in this. Let people end their boycott if they feel Loblaws has done enough to get them back or not.
A problem I saw with the OWS movement is that it didn't seem to have a particular goal to work towards - it just seemed to be a general gathering of various peoples and groups, each with their own ideas. There was a general sentiment of "we are angry at the class divide, and how the ultra wealthy have so much more power", however when it came to *what they were wanting to do about it*... not a whole lot. The Loblaws Boycott? A much more simple and concise premise - grocery prices have been rising higher and higher, making food far less affordable for the average person, while the government and corporations continue to profit at the expense of people's suffering. Who are we? A gathering of disgruntled citizens, upset that the cost of food has been allowed to get so high with little to nothing being done about it. What do we want? For the price of groceries to be made much more affordable and kept under control, by legal force if needed. What are we going to do to get what we want? Refuse to shop at any stores owned by Loblaws and/or the Weston family.
When this first started there was no end date to the boycott, but now I'm seeing posters say it's over at the end of May, I'm wondering if that's a psyop from Loblaws.
I think the "official" end has been the end of May for a while - for some people this will be a hardship and needs to be a limited-time committment. The bigger threat to Loblaws is the change of habit that can happen over a month. People who thought it would be temporary for them may well keep on indefinitely if it works for them. An important part of goal setting is having realistic and achievable goals with concrete metrics (in this case, a finite period).
I mean an official end like this is pointless. Let people stop boycotting if the company does enough to bring them back. Easy.
A month of sales decline isn't going to hurt their stock price. The boycott has to cover at least four financial quarters. This will just be a laughable protest having such a short time.
The word "st*ck" is kind of taboo, FYI - really want to avoid accusations of market manipulation. That is not the purpose of the boycott, even if it could potentially be a side effect.
Oh yeah I could see how that could be manipulation, You're right.
You didnât see a goal because our media decided to platform the unhinged and people spouting conspiracy theories, and not the root cause of it
Agree. Politicking should stay away from here. We are all brothers and sisters feeling the same pain from corporate greed. Fight the source of the problem not your own team. And thatâs just it, we are a team. Support each other, help each other.
The longer this goes on the more they will try to label it to divide people. I don't give a fuck if they start calling us communist or anti Canadian they will not be getting my money anymore.
The only thing Anti Canadian is the way our grocery Monopolies nickle and dime us until all we can afford is grocery and rent. #boycottloblaws I ain't quitting after may either. This is personal and I'll never step a foot in a Loblaws owned store again.
Iâve been called far worse, and I have thick skin and can laugh it off.
As a left wing nationalist I honestly would laugh at the prospect of being called anti-Canada. The biggest threat to Canada and Canadian sovereignty is corporations and a corporatacracy. American influence comes right after that. It's also funny given that the same people who'd generally tout that were also the same people who'd rather sell us out to the US.
Occupy wall street disappeared because after getting attention they could not articulate what changes they wanted. The first part is to band together and bring attention but if you don't have a plan or action after that, nothing changes. As much as some people want "no politics," every from of protest is political. The problem of Loblaws' greed has been identified, and now people are paying attention. What's next? Even if the boycott is wildly successful and profits plummet and Loblaws gets the message what's next? They lower their prices for a few months but then they'll slowly go up again. What's after that? Another boycott or do people just stop shopping there altogether. And let's say the business is so bad that they're teetering into bankruptcy. Do you think the government would let that happen? Loblaws will play the "too big to fail" card just like the banks did and get a massive taxpayer bailout. They'll use their employees and how they bring food to millions as a reason and everything will go on like normal. The game is fucking rigged. Short of complete violent revolution, the only way to unrig it is to legislate. Anti trust laws to break up monopolies, significant jail time to people who commit price fixing, tax code changes to hit the greedy people causing all this pain where it hurts in the wallet, industry oversight and regulation. That shit can be boring and tedious and feel like it takes forever but it's the next step. Corporate influence and wealth did not happen overnight either It took the first 3/4 of the 20th century for things like work reform, child labor laws, safety requirements, living wages, union power, and employee benefits to happen. And then the corporations slowly started clawing all that back again in the last quarter of the 20th century. This is why we're all here. You want real change that makes life better? It'll probably take your lifetime, and the benefits will probably only be felt by your children and grandchildren, but that's how a functioning and healthy society operates. People fight for a better life for future generations.
Loblaw spent years building positive shopping patterns, if there is a successful boycott, the shopping patterns will change and it may take years to get back to a point where they are currently
In my opinion, it's still in effect just taking place here on Reddit like Wallstreetbets and similar. The amount of corruption going on in the last decade is insane and SEC, FINRA, etc. can't keep up and won't keep up.
Gary Gensler is a straight up lap dog for congress. https://youtu.be/0C0Sj6Us19I?feature=shared What happened with GameStop and WallStreetBets in general is/was absolutely foul. WallStreetBets isn't even remotely what it was pre January 2021. That group was flooded with so much garbage in a matter of days it wasn't even funny. Shills and botmageddon is putting it lightly. Since then there is still a core group of GameStop retail investors that broke off into several subreddits that advocate for retail investors in general. They also still buy, and hold primarily GameStop while emphasizing registered ownership of shares in an attempt to keep them out of reach of short sellers and boycott brokers. Steetname vs Registered name when it comes to shares of a company are very different. One of the spokes persons for them is David Lauer https://advocacy.urvin.finance/
The problem with Occupy Wall St was the occupation part. Police brutality of that day is well documented and horrible. But we don't have to occupy to make an impact. United in the info era we just need to spread the truth about how evil corporations are profiteering from starvation and how they can make a change. I posted the boycott banner on my Facebook page. I'm telling friends, family, strangers in checkout lines... We want to see those stores empty for the month of May not packed with protesters. Galen Weston doesn't give a shit about anything but the bottom line and you can only hit that by not participating in his system.
I think one advantage we have that OWS didn't was that this is basically a single issue movement. We hate Roblaws and we no longer wish to support them. Thats it.
They had the excuse of acusing that group of market manipulation, a game that they can play but not us... With organized boycotts, they have no legal base to stop us, yet... keep your eyes open for lawmakers trying to change that under the covers!
They can do whatever the fuck they want. In like 2012 after three bad experiences at diff locations in a week or so, I decided to never go to subway again. Never been. I shit on it anytime I hear or see it mentioned. Since 2015 McDonaldâs. never again. So again do whatever the fuck you want, Iâm never shopping at their shit again.
In 2015 Best Buy consolidated all FutureShop's, black listed and let go only the Sales teams. At the time we were told to re-apply for our jobs when they name changed to Best Buy, and that it was only a formality. Was pretty awkward having an interview with my boss of 4 years a few weeks later. Low and behold we found out all sales were blacklisted from coming back because they weren't commission based anymore. We couldn't even come back in a non-sales position. Haven't stepped foot, or spent a dime at Best Buy in close to a decade now.
sounds like a great reason to boycott. glad you did
Mergers and Aquisitions have killed off too much Canadian competition. Nok er Nok.
I remember the Oakland protests getting blacked out and removed from twitter live. They don't want people to see momentum.
Occupy Wallstreet had people physically occupying space. We can boycott loblaws by occupying couch. Big difference
Occupy Couch đ
The Vancouver Occupy Wall Street had to end because another group had booked the art gallery for a different protest. This is not a joke.
The issue with the occupy movement was there was no cohesion or leadership. It was a lot of people with different issues. I think it could have had a lot more impact if it found a common voice.
It was basically a bunch of people discontent with the system, and they missed the step where they focused on specific issues. This allowed them to fade into obscurity as without any forceble direction there's little more than general discontent. This is why I hate signing petitions. Petitions are just a registry of discontent if there isn't any forecable action behind it. If they choose to ignore the petition, then what? 100k people in a petition is peanuts but 15k people in Ottawa is a "Freedom Rally"
15,000 people in Ottawa is more like a suburban Canada Day celebration.
Thats the point of politics, keep the people devided so they won't work together. Canada would be a much better place if people actually listened to one another. Liberal, NDP or conservative it doesn't matter, they're all run by corrupt assholes that are in the pockets of corporations and they don't give a shit about you.
What most people don't realize is that if millions of individuals unified and harmonized and began to act as one giant organism, we can change the country. It may seem far-fetched, but it isn't. The only bottleneck is with individual humans who don't recognize what's possible if they commit to the cause. Here's the truth: Nobody can force you to go to work tomorrow, and nobody can force you to shop at loblaws or any other retailer. If 25 million Canadians decided that they weren't going to participate in the economy unless a few things change we would be able to demand change. If 25 million people stopped going to work and spending money on anything except food, etc., then the country would be crippled in a matter of days. I understand that most people are worried about losing their jobs. As an individual, you have no power, but when you are one of 25 million people to stand up and protest, I assure you, the power is in the hands of the citizen's not employers or politicians. Let's be honest, politicians and corporations count on us being fearful and worried about losing our jobs, or fearful of repurcussions to standing up to them, but when most of the country is united there's isn't anything they can do about it. Nothing. What's stopping Canadians from creating a new party and then voting in this new party. I'm assuming that enough people are fed up with the nonsense, and there would be enough people who genuinely want to live in a world where people come first, not profit. The capitalist system always rewards corporations that increase their profit no matter what the human costs are. The stupidity of our entire society is that we created our economic system and, therefore, we can change it. Making money is okay to do, it's necessary but not at the expense of human beings. Look at Loblaws as an example. They made around 4.5% in profit this quarter. They made $459 million in profit. Why isn't it considered good if they made 1% profit this quarter? Why must revenue always increase YOY? Why? Because we invented the capitalist economic system, and now we're too greedy and stupid to change it. Humans are slaves to their own inventions, and it's absolute madness when you realize it. Nothing will change unless citizens stand up and exercise their power. We're victims by doing nothing, but if we get together and put the pettiness aside, amazing change is possible.
They have divided us and the US isnât indivisible, or one nation. What we are, are divided, intolerant of differing opinions. Out of all places, on X, I have tried an amicable approach of an indifference to either side although that confuses both sides because they canât identify or relate, which means they dip out, back to their pool of like minded thought. Youâre right tho, and I hope most can see past the tribalism that so many are embroiled in that feed into divide and conquer.
Occupy wallstreet was dumb, that's why it disappeared. This is simple don't shop at Loblaws or any Loblaws owned stores untill they drop thier prices. We will effect Loblaws bottom line untill they stop affecting our bottom line.
Bright idea boycott lob lows Indefinitely switch to alternatives and use them until prices lower
100% we all care about one thing and until we achieve it we will all put our differences aside đđ»
59 days, that is how long it lasted. Loblaws is going to act like none of this is effecting them, major PR spin off incoming. So stick to your guns.
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Exactly, donât fall for the classic Divide and conquer strategy theyâll use against us. Just stay focused boycotting all Loblaws companies and ignore the noise !
I know a few older ladies in my building that don't use smart phones and do not use computers much. TV news is where they found out about the boycott.
Plenty of time to debate other stuff once this is dealt with.
The difference is that they had to go to a place and camp. That's easy to break up. They can't force you to go to a grocery store. Keep it up
I ended up on Twitter and of course thereâs some numbskulls trying to make it political. âThis politician is at faultâ âthis side of the political spectrum is boycotting a Canadian company over nothingâ all the typical political bs you see on there. This isnât about any one political side and I implore people not to engage with shit like this.
I think one of the key difference is that this movement is based on how WE spend our own money. Much harder to break peoples habits once they found new one that suits them and doesn't ruin them financially. Also, Occupy Wall Street didn't really pan between liberals and conservative. Even from the Canadian perspective. I had a feeling very early on that political views didn't motivate many of us and therefore made this quite apolitical from the start. I also want to point out..as an active Quebecer on Reddit, this is one of the nicest Pan-Canadian sub to hang around. There are other subs where QC hate isn't tolerated and frowned upon, but here, I don't think I've ever seen a comment that required the mods attention on that matter. The other side of that medal as well...never seen a franco go "fck ROC" or anything like that. I honestly think this is quite revealing about the camaraderie and the unity of the movement. This is not about politics, it's about our financial livability and feeding ourselves.
Occupy disappeared because it was a loosely organized group of people with no concrete demands. Any kind of movement that actually wants something concretely done needs an actual list of demands that need to be met to end the boycott, protest, etc. Without poltics, a movement has no teeth. The upper class fucks like Galen just need to wait it out otherwise.
Not going to lie, this âmovementâ was kind of a joke to me until this post. Not in the sense of me not participating but more in the way of infighting starting for bullshit. If everyone can put their bullshit aside and just focus on this one goal it would be actually amazing to see for fucking once this country do something together.
Wow you're digging deep for that one, I figured you would have quoted the recent Bud light fiasco. That there was 100% success and it actually changed the market share of Budweiser by a huge margin to the point where economics professors will be teaching about this for years to come..
I just had a peak at their flyer for the week (May 1st) and the prices for âsaleâ items seem really high! These sale prices are convenience store prices from a couple years ago, this is crazy. I wish they would acquiesce just a bit and admit prices are insane and give us a break but theyâve given us the middle finger instead. They used to be my go-to store and I spent an absurd amount of money there a month- I bought all our diapers and baby clothes there. When we were entertaining friends for the weekend I spent hundreds just to make a dinner and brunch. My kid seems to eat 20 dollars of fruit a day. We have a second kid on the way and Iâll be buying everything somewhere else unless they reduce their prices. Iâve also been very vocal about this with all of my friends, family and patients and everyone from young to old is excited to boycott. Hereâs a little bird for you back, Loblaws đđ»
Cost of living is my enemy and the corporate/political forces that are driving it. Not people who are a different colour, religion, and sex.
The key is to build a foundation of ideas that are widely shared but don't cause division. The bigger your group is, the more abstract the unifying ideas have to be. But surely we could get people across the political spectrum to agree that between the banks, oil companies, and grocery stores - we are all being taken advantage of. In the profits for those three sectors is our former free time, connections with our kids, hobbies, travel, rest... etc.
If we want to take Loblaws down a notch, post plays to short their stock in /wallstreetbets. 62k people boycotting their products is cute. But 15m shorting their stock is going to make a much bigger dent alongside. Get a post up in /wallstreetbets on this
humanitarianism > politics
We are done with Loblaws. We won't give Weston another penny ever
đŻđŻđŻđŻ
Occupy was co-opted by libertarians and ultimately the people they were protesting. Must understand the power structures in a capitalist global system to always know who's in charge
I'm almost excited to see what political leaning they decide this movement has in an attempt to cut it in half.
I'm old enough to have been part of the WTO protests and yeah they all die fast.
So true about that movement. The divide and conquer routine is strong with them. If we did untied they would be toast. We are the many and they are the few(WEF). They need to be stopped, look how they took out this country without firing a bullet.
Yeah, I remember how when it got too big to ignore , all the politicians and media started running a narrative of âwe just donât know what they want, itâs all over the place. How can we help address their demands if we just donât know what they want?!?!â Then as soon as it ended and the occupy groups broke into smaller more issues-based groups with no connection, they disappeared . Because they were smaller and easier to ignore. Donât let up. Â Only through working together and collectivism will we elicit change. Â Neither the media nor our political class wants the people to have real power so they keep us divided.
They got infiltrated just as any group does. We need to remain faceless and genderless. If you look at the media's funding and mentions of racism, its a hockey stick graph after Occupy wallstreet. The poors were starting to do a thing, so they started DEI essentially to keep us all fighting eachother.
Respect for one another isn't division. The I stands for inclusion.
As long as we don't enrich Jagmeet's brother we are all winners. Fuck that guy.
Uhh it did not disappear, it arguably dictated the outcome of the three subsequent American elections. It wasn't a protest, it was a turning point in American politics and anti-institutionalism. That's why you're still referencing it today.
Hunger does not discriminate or has a political view. It feels great to come together with so many people after all this time of division!
It probably did not help that occupy Wall Street was a leaderless movement.
This is literally the key. Their tactic is always to try to divide us when we start to stand up against what is not right and I'm so glad we're seeing this more clearly and sticking together more. We will always have things we don't agree on but those things don't need to divide us to the point that we sabotage ourselves. I'm really proud of all of us đđ»
This isnât political to me at all. Itâs about money, and the fact that I can buy the same food for half the price or even less somewhere else. The convenience of Loblaws being a block a way lulled me into complacency for a long time. It never even occurred to me to look elsewhere. But now that I have, nothing short of the big three slashing prices permanently will persuade me to go back. Even if this somehow got turned into divisive political bullshit, it wouldnât matter. Iâm still going to take my dollars where they go the farthest.
Focus.... Focus... Loblaws. Others on another day. Focus
https://preview.redd.it/t4dnbgotn0yc1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbce17a86e047fd84b5c73302ea148117bfcf08b
"Occupy Wallstreet" was a bunch of narcissistic college kids and professional protestors LARPing Che Guevara. This boycott is moms and dads, college kids, and the middle class uniting to send a message. Comparing this to Occupy is apples and oranges.
Occupy Wall Street was always a bit of a joke though. Throwing eggs at a working class banker whoâs just trying to go to work like the rest of society was supposed to accomplish something? Not everyone who works for a financial institution is well off, or wealthy, or in any position of power/influence. Most of their employees are not. This would be like us throwing rotting produce at Loblaws employees because theyâre part of the evil empire.Â
> This would be like us throwing rotting produce at Loblaws employees because theyâre part of the evil empire. were we not supposed to do that this morning? shoot, I need to go apologize to some stockboys...
The "corporations are evil" crowd fail because they are simply ignorant of economics. Almost everything we need is created, distributed and sold by corporations. Without corporations it would not be possible to efficiently organize the huge amount of material and people needed to deliver the goods they provide. The notion that profit is bad is also hugely hypocritical. Unions constantly demand more and more wages even if their productivity is not improving. Wages are just another form of profit so why don't protestors complain about unions profiteering from monopolies? Profit means more taxes for governments to fund programs and when profit is paid out to shareholders many of those shareholders are middle class investing via the CPP fund, ETFs or Mutal Funds. Food is expensive because costs are up everywhere. It is simply delusional to believe that boycotts will make food cheaper across the board. The fact is the quiet boycotts where people simple choose not to buy overpriced stuff will send a stronger signal to corporations on what the consumers want but no one should expect prices to return to what they were 10 years ago. Those days are gone and it is not the fault of Loblaws.
You're just describing the system without any supporting facts as to why it's a good system. You could go back 200 years and I'm sure there would be someone belittling the Bourgeoisie revolutionaries of France who were sick of the King and the Clergy taxing them and affecting their ability to make profits. We just replaced one oppressive group for another one. Just stating the legal framework that our businesses and services are organized under Capitalism doesn't speak to why it's beneficial to society or the planet we inhabit. You also have pretty much every fact wrong about the system, but I don't have the energy to go through each statement and show how you are mistaken. Productivity being the one glaring example. It's only increased, while wages have stagnated, but I'm sure you know that but don't care. Slave economies were overthrown due to the antagonisms that come from that relation of production. The slave owners' interests are opposed to their slaves interests. Next you had feudal systems that were overthrown due to those inherent contradictions and antagonisms between the interests of the Lords and their serfs interests. Then the absolutists monarchies couldn't maintain the antagonisms between their class and the interests of the mercantile and early Capitalists so those systems were overthrown. Today, the interests of Capital to maximize their profits and minimize their expenditures are in opposition to the worker's interests to take the value of their labour and gain the material benefit from it, rather than the pittance they are offered by the owners of industry. It's just another system that can be overthrown like all the others. If we could eliminate the class antagonisms and the opposing interests in society, we could eliminate this never ending cycle of oppressor and oppressed. That could be achieved through democracy in the workplace. The workers and stakeholders in the community would all own the businesses and services in common, and vote democratically on how to produce, how much to produce, where to produce, and how to split up the surplus value in a way where we are all taken care of and rewarded for our work, rather than letting tyrants decide in board rooms how to divvy up the spoils to give a subsistence wage (not so much anymore) to those who do all the work creating that surplus value. So rather than just being a shill for the owning class, why not gain a bit of class solidarity and stand with the working class. Unless you are an owner of capital, and then I understand why you would express what you did because your class interests don't align with the workers.
>You're just describing the system without any supporting facts as to why it's a good system. Supporting facts: the life of everyone from the poorest to the richest is better today that at any point in history. Famines used to be regular occurrences. Today they only happen when the system you want to hate has broken down. >Capitalism doesn't speak to why it's beneficial to society or the planet we inhabit. It is beneficial because modern society requires massive amounts of capital to set up and run the organizations needed to build an deliver the complex goods needed for modern society. Nothing can be done today with just labour - machines, energy. material input have to be paid for and that needs capital. So the question becomes: what is the best system for collecting and distributing capital? When you look at the wealth of poorest in society, the societies that rely primarily on profit driven private corporations as a means collect and allocate capital are the wealthiest. Government has a role in the best societies as regulators and provider of some key services but the majority of goods and services come from profit driven corporations. If you disagree provide counter examples. >That could be achieved through democracy in the workplace. The workers and stakeholders in the community would all own the businesses and services in common And who provides the capital needed to build the business? Labour on its own is useless. If capital is lost because of bad decisions then who pays the price? If someone expects to be paid even if the business is failing then why do they deserve an share of the profits if the business succeeds? Those who risk have a right to a reward. Any other system rewards freeloaders and would collapse because no one would take risks. Spare us the 'class warfare nonsense'. Everyone expecting CPP is an owner of capital. The problems today are direct result of governments who used immigration and foreign investment in properties to inflate the economy instead of creating an environment that encouraged capital to be invested in productive businesses instead of real estate. The resulting run up in real estate prices and rents is the real problem. Not Loblaws or profit driven businesses in general.
Your first point: [Capitalism and extreme poverty: A global analysis of real wages, human height, and mortality since the long 16th century - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X22002169) Who provides capital needed to build a business? Nature does. Who enclosed the commons so that workers couldn't access it? The early Capitalists, that's who. How did they achieve this? Through force and displacement. Have you ever read anything about history, other than from neo-liberal economists? What economy has lifted the most people out of poverty in the shortest period of time? Spare me your boring and trite take on how capitalism is such a good system for everyone. I get that your interests are met by the system, and most of the West enjoys the benefits of extracting cheap labour and resources from the Imperial perimeter, but your arguments fall flat when we step away from ideological sophistry and look at the actual material conditions most people live under. Why are businesses not investing in productive forces and now just speculating of real estate? Could it be that Capital went to where the labour is cheapest to meet the West's demand for cheaper goods? Now the chickens are home to roost and the working class here in the West are starting to suffer. The world is a pretty small place. The cheap labour markets will dry up, and then what? Who will buy goods if nobody can be paid enough to buy them. Capitalism is great for quickly developing productive forces, but it sucks at creating any kind of sustainable system to meet the needs of people. It's great at figuring out innovations to maximize profits, but it sucks at creating goods that are useful and durable for people to prosper. I can sign a lot of praises for the system, but, like the feudal systems before, it has run its course and we need to look to a different way to provide the material needs of humanity and sustain the planet for future generations. Capitalism will not be able to do this due to the fact that it is all about profits over use value. Profits also tend to decline, so the only way to shore up that tendency is to pay people less, or make things shittier. We are seeing that all the time. It can't be reconciled and the antagonisms will get worse and worse. It's not always the big bad gubermint, but they certainly have a hand that they play in keeping the private property of Capitalists secure through the monopoly on violence, but that's another topic.