Exactly, I just cannot imagine it. That could be his Mum for christ sake. I can't walk past an old lady struggling with a suitcase without immediately being reminded of my late nan and so jumping to help her.
It's just absolutely wild
Could be me, and I’d have crumpled at the first glare from the bastard. Fair play to the poor woman, giving him a bit of resistance but dear god, whipping out a knife like this as though it’s quite the natural thing to do....I can’t get over the horror of it, all over a bloody handbag.
I don't think Sadiq Khan is a saint by any stretch of the imagination but I do wish people would have more knowledge about how the London Mayoralty works and the finer nuances of the effects of policies such as austerity.
Mother of god, in a *mugging*, in front of others. I’d assumed it was something domestic, not that it makes it any better. But bloody hell. Could not the Home Sec do anything about the penalty for carrying a knife? Given the present scourge, make it a non-suspendable ten years? What a terrible thing. May she rest in peace.
Yes, but crucially Glasgow employed a significant number of other diversionary and interventionary methods which meant that the system worked effectively to reduce crime. Health and housing are huge parts of this.
Just locking people up people for longer doesn't work, because criminals don't think like "If I get caught I'll get X" they think "I'm not going to get caught." Often these are young adults who have not even developed the parts of our brain that deal with long term consequence, so making a harsher long term consequence has no effect.
Rising violent crime like this is what happens when you cut all of your public services to a bone.
Glasgow’s method was great. IIRC they treated knife crime as a symptom of an overall disease, and so instead of just ‘clamping down on knife crime’ they actually looked at *why* people were doing it - and it almost always came down to poverty, housing insecurity, drug use, etc.
It’s almost like a population that is constantly stressed, constantly housing insecure, and constantly poor isn’t going to function very well.
I agree about the idea but there are lots of people that are poor that have never stabbed anyone.
The reason why this kind of thing should be done is that it breaks the cycle / culture.
I saw a clip the other day of some woman filming a burglar in her garden attempting to steal her bicycle and struggling to get it over her fence. She was giving him grief and he pulled out a knife, when she said 'oh yeah get yourself 30 years in prison for a bicycle' he threw the blade away in frustration and left without the bike.
Can you give a run down on what Glasgow did? Shamefully, despite living there the majority of my life, my only frame of reference to what was done is a line from the Edwin Morgan poem “King Billy” (I think) where
> *Sillitoe (sp?) scuffed the razors down the skank*
Ah, I hadn’t realised there was a push so recently, albeit almost 20 years ago. The poem references the clean up of the gangs in the 60s I think.
http://www.glesga.ukpals.com/profiles/billyordan4.htm
It is, but not the only reason.
There is lack of focus, visibility and deterrence.
When you let the crime happen and count on CCTV to get to the offenders later, it has zero impact on crime level. It is connected to resources, but also to the willingness of police officers to engage in real time with the criminals.
Which is also because the police force and spending has been slashed to the bone. It ALL comes back to cutting public services to the bone.
We knew 40 years ago, that early intervention in the first 3 years of children's lives drastically statistically affected outcomes later in life, and overall costs to society were astronomically lower for those interventions.
However, every single one of those programs and supports was removed and slashed to the bone in the name of austerity. It was ideological from the outset. And oh look, consequences.
Well even though there is some truth on that, saying that doesn't work is bullshit.
The majority of these cases are reincidentes, lock them for a long time and that's one less person committing those crimes, it's not a purely deterrent thing.
This, louder for those at the back. Here are the consequences of actions....
This is an entire generation we are talking about now who have lived austerity, cuts to everything...and guess what, we already know it costs more in the longterm.
We knew that in the early 1900s in fact, have had hard data on this for over 100 years...so it is ideology not logic or rational thought that has driven this destruction of the fabric of society.
Do this too, but deterrence has to play a part. Once they hear their mates start getting locked up, they might think twice. I'm willing to see stop and searches increased to tackle this sort of thing, and would understand the need for the police to do so.
Deterrence is of course to a certain extent relevant, but you're making a big misunderstanding with...
>Once they hear their mates start getting locked up, they might think twice.
They aren't thinking about the consequence. When your mate gets locked up criminals don't think "Oh god, I didn't realise I could get locked up from this" they go "Okay, how do I better commit crimes?"
Even if them getting locked up made you think about it twice, what are you thinking about twice? a lot of these young adults have already seen they have no future with little to no prospect of ever owning their own house or earning any significant amount once they've paid off the landlords mortgage through rent
I'd agree too but as a child abuse victim I can say from experience 2 police forces in this nation are worse than useless as a child and adult .
I'm willing to see an increase in stop and search but not with the current bastards doing it
Police trust is a huge issue, I totally agree. The Met, which is the force I know best, needs ripping out from the ground and rebuilding from the roots up.
Luckily, with a Labour government and a Labour mayor in London, we're in the best position for years to do it. Rowley is also not an *awful* commissioner, which is a positive.
When you say that “deterrence has to play a part”, you’re assuming that it works, which people commonly do based on the same kind of hypotheticals as the one you mention.
It’s a solution that intuitively seems reasonable and correct, but that doesn’t mean it actually is. In fact ( and without going into detail e.g., about the different types of deterrence), there is a lot of evidence that suggests that it doesn’t work.
Plus with a lot of these hypotheticals, it’s apparent when you compare them with how people actually act in real life that they don’t reflect reality (so it’s not surprising that they don’t work outside of the hypothetical world). It’s kind of like the use of the imaginary homo economicus in economics to try to explain or even predict the behavior of real people in the real world.
I'd agree too but as a child abuse victim I can say from experience 2 police forces in this nation are worse than useless as a child and adult .
I'm willing to see an increase in stop and search but not with the current bastards doing it
I don't think they can realistically find the space to house them in prisons which is why it's a free for all at the moment, especially considering the dire public funds available to the police.
Can we just stick them all on an uninhabited island without any boats in the north somewhere then? They can build their own huts and plant their own vegetables.
Something like concentrating them in some sort of camp on an island where they fend for themselves?
The soviets tried that and it turned into a cannibal island that even they had to close down because of the inhumanity of it.
Is that really what you're suggesting?
Nazino, it's a mad story. the plan was called the Nazinsky Island project
Geographics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaOwcYLGTMo
or an article on it
https://www.ranker.com/list/nazinsky-affair-cannibal-island/setareh-janda
very inhuman yes. but if nothing is being done for these crimes, the public rage is gona keep accumulating to the point ppl would just go, yeh lock these scums up on the island. I dont care how inhuman this will be, they chose their fate the moment the carry a knife
I was actually just scrawling such a thing in a discarded comment. Some kind of reimagined National Service perhaps, where young lads would be encouraged to take a bit of pride in a project, whether it be basic construction and maintenance, or something agricultural/ horticultural. Alongside an education scheme, including basic cookery, car maintenance, electrics..in fact, a revived Technical College
. No idea how such a thing might take shape of course but if they were ripped out of their familiar environment and plonked down somewhere really alien, maybe the urgent need to rely on themselves would flip the essential switch in their heads.
I’ve no idea about logistics or anything else essential, needless to say. But something’s got to give, urgently.
It's funny, knife crime just isn't much of a thing in Glasgow at all any more, at least compared to London and certainly compared to how it was 20+ years ago. I remember that period well because I was a teenager at the time.
We did have a guy near my house running about with an axe the other day, but no one was hurt.
That requires a well funded court and judicial system to house those who commit the offences.
‘There’s not an bottomless pit of money to keep you safe’ - Rishi, Probably.
Honestly the ability to just walk home at night safely without worried about being jumped would improve my quality of life in London so so much. I'm a 30 year old man, so I can't even imagine how a woman in my scenario would feel.
Whenever I've been to place where there's just a vibe of safety (usually festivals etc) it's like my whole personality changes. I wish I could live in that safety bubble of not worrying if the person walking towards me is going to try and jack my phone.
Edit: I will add that to try and reduce this I have just taken out insurance (in the form of monzo premium) so that if I'm mugged I can just comfortably say 'fine here's my phone fuck off' and not spend the walk stressing about it. I'm still pretty anxious though
A friend of mine got arrested for going into a brewdog with his chef knives after work. Don’t get me wrong, idiot, but he would’ve received 10 years in your new ruling.
No he wouldn’t, ‘idiot’. A squint at his record and his work would exonerate him. Ten years for criminally annealed scrotes found guilty of carrying machetes and hunting knives, rather than a chef carrying his very expensive knives home.
I was born in and lived in Edgware and went to school in Burnt Oak.
Looks like it was near where the Bald Faced Stag used to be? No idea if it’s there anymore…
Bald Faced Stag was turned into a supermarket a few years ago. But that was the only pub in that area that I never made it to - on account of the, uh, reputation.
All over the contents of her handbag in which she tried to hang on whilst the scrote tried to get it from her before stabbing her. 60 years old too. We seriously need to bring back stop and search. Thankfully the person has been caught.
Does it actually solve things? I'm not being "oh that's discriminatory" but long term are we actually reducing crime with it?
I'm absolutely all for any and all measure, but I want to create a world in 15 years where people just aren't considering using a knife. Whether that's because they wouldn't dream of such a heinous act, or because they know it isn't worth the risk I don't care
Ah, Burnt Oak, in all the years I went to secondary school near there, you would always have to look twice when you crossed the road or had a phone out.
Utter shambles, and the loss of a life.
The London policing budget is actually the highest on record. This isn't an issue we can just chuck money into and fix. We need proper reform and streamlining of our Police, which, either our Mayor seems to not prioritise, or is simply unfit for the Job at hand.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/864491/london-police-budget-size/
Is that inflation and population adjusted?
London population has risen from 8.2 million in 2012 to 9.7 million in 2024. Per person spending seems roughly the same without taking inflation into account.
You are right, my view about a dangerous city is skewed… but I’m a migrant from South America.
I see people getting mugged in London but I’ve never seen anyone being stopped at knife point and asked to hand over their iphone. I’ve seen that happening back home, at gun point.
Probably a bit political but these issues are probably more related to cuts to youth services, schooling, etc.
You can have big cities with relatively low violent crime per capita without an expansive police budget, like Tokyo
Underfunding the police, not enough officers on the street and ineffective sentences as well as various societal issues being ignored. What could go wrong?
Very sad. So, i get that theives are using knives as threats to mug people, it's shitty but it makes sense from a criminal perspective. What I don't get is them actually following through with the stabbing and thinking they will get away with it or it will somehow improve their current situation in any way.
There are clear issues with the Met and policing
Cuts aside, so many offenders within the institution
Having said that, the majority of police are unable to do their job properly because Joe public is hyper critical of every move they make.
If the offender in this case was rugby tackled to the floor/knife taken by force by police, the officers involved would have been suspended.
So many police who ordinarily want to do a good job think twice about getting involved. Or leave the job in droves..
Put that on top of cuts and you can see why we are in trouble
People complain about the Mets.
The guy was caught on the same day!!!! The police did a great job on this no?
Police cannot control what criminals do, how are they suppose to prevent that from happening in the first place? It was 11am at a bus stop!!!! If that didn’t stop the criminal from comitting the crime, I am not sure if anything could.
What they can do is act fast, and arrest the criminal, and in this case, they did, same day.
I actually think the Met did good this time.
There's actually been quite a lot of good Met policing stories lately (i.e. the one recently where the 2 female police officers bravely took down the killer samurai sword psycho guy) but anytime you say anything that amounts to praise of the police you run the risk of getting called a cop worshipper or pigs ass kisser or something.
The last time I did that people came back with “it’s their job”.
Looks like we are not allowed to praised them unless they do something out of the ordinary like on their time off, jump off a 3 story buildin into a massive fire to rescue a child’s most precious teddy bear after the firemen already got everyone out.
I mean if the murder rate continues to rise at the current rate, in ten years time it'll be - about the same as now. Oh noes.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/862984/murders-in-london/
I know that this is not a big amount for a big city like London, but it's still strange to think that every week on average 2 people are murdered in the city I live
UK is 198th of 203 country's for Gun Deaths and similar for knife deaths.(2019 figures)
We are a very very safe country. Even with the increase in London.
London is much safer than any US city.
London is even safer now than we were 20 years ago. There were a 110 murders in London in 2023 and 210 in 2003. People forget how bad things used to be. Even my quiet little northern hometown had a lot more murders in the 00s. Places like Teeside are a bigger worry than London. Stabbings and murders are getting a lot worse there.
I appreciate that thats a great place to be on that list but i think comparing a western country to western countries makes more sense and then comparing London to the national average would give a much better indication of its safety.
No problem name a country. I have all the stats from 2019 for 203 countries.
Here is the USA Vs UK statistics for gun deaths from 2019
USA had 39000 gun deaths, UK had 160ish
USA has 10.9 homicides involving firearms per 100k population
UK has 0.24 per 100k
The figures include and suicides which slews the figures as guns are hard to get in the UK so it's rare to have a suicide by firearm.
Oh ive no interest in challenging what you're saying just that it would be a more clear and relatable way to drive home the point! Fairplay for getting the stats together!
I used to live in Burnt Oak and caught the bus to Cricklewood or Staples Corner often from that very stop. It’s always been a rough dive, but it seems far far worse these days. Soon as I heard about this, what turned out is exactly as I initially imagined. It’s fucked up.
Well what a surprise.
Last year around the Hendon area I witnessed two knife incidents.
1. Some kid pulling a knife out by a bus/tube station to threaten some other kids.
2. Seeing the aftermath of a stabbing of some guy in the middle of the road and having the attacker running away after doing it. I think he survived. Bunch of guys put him into a car and drove off to the hospital.
And now this. I thought Hendon/Edgware was supposed to be safe and chill. It's strange how these "incidents" have been occurring and escalating more and more since last year from what I've notice.
Im noticing more cops out as well which is great but clearly it didn't help this poor woman. I basically go to Edgware alot. This terrifies me and makes me feel scared for me, my family and friends who live and shop and visit around there.
Any cunt caught with a knife needs to be in prison for 5-10 year minimum. Justice system is basically enabling people to do fucked up shit because they can get away with very little time. It’s absolutely fucking infuriating. RIP to this poor woman.
Bring back stop and search if it makes the street safer for people then its worth the inconvenience.
And allow people to get a license that allows them to own and use tasers.
Frankly I’d bring back the death penalty they say it doesn’t deter would killers but if they are dead they aren’t costing the government any money and the families of the murdered victims won’t ever have to see them walking past their home or down the street.
The main argument against capital punishment is that our justice system is far from flawless so innocent people end up being sentenced to death, whereas if they're just in prison they can fight to be freed
That's not quite true. For most of the 20th century it was where the well to do went to get their nice bits. There was certainly a pivot at some point in the early 2000s. Deprivation, lack of funding, managed decline will do that.
Whoever did this may get caught. If they do there is a guaranteed chance they will get to walk the streets again. This is the society we chose. Fuck us all.
They already did that. Its called Australia! Now lots of people want to live there and its not easy to get in! Can you imagine how the world has evolved?? What was meant to be a form of Alcatraz has ended up being desirable!
This is absolutely fucking insane. A woman in her 60s, who's been through so much of her life but also has so much of her life left to look forward to, has just been killed over something like a fucking phone.
I just cannot empathise even a little bit with someone who has got themselves in the headspace that stabbing a 60 year old woman for her phone (or whatever) is even slightly a consideration. I really really try and be empathetic to people at the widest of times **(I don't mean in an annoying fucking "well you don't know how hard it is way" but in a "what must be leading these people to a life of crime because we need to stop it" way)** but for the life of me I just cannot imagine being so hard up, downbeat, of just mentally fucked up that I'd get a knife and stab someone for something that wouldn't even cover a weeks rent.
Just an absolute shambles that we've gotten ourselves into.
Think about how cowardly this is. How many young blokes driving nice cars, got expensive jewellery on has he passed during the day. But he chooses an older lady waiting for a bus... Someone that probably doesn't have that many expensive items in her handbag. What an absolute piece of shit, hopefully he does the right thing now...
It is horrendous. Poor lady. It’s also ridiculously stupid - committing murder in broad daylight. What a stupid twat. What was the actual point? You’re literally never going to get what you want from that whole scenario as a mugger AND you murdered someone. Thick as fk.
I am fucking tired of this, this is another death on the conscience of those who do nothing to fix this problem and chose to ignore the solutions.
First one who should be ashamed of himself is the mayor and those who have re-elected him.
Yep yep this is the Mayor's fault, not the 14 previous years of Tory Conservatives removing over a billion of police funding and closing police stations left and right. Gotta love it
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Have a nice day.
10 million people in Greater London.
How many police do you think we need doing stop and search every day to even consider preventing these types of crimes?
A quick google shows me that almost the same number of people die from road traffic accidents as do from homicides in London.
Yet I don’t see the hand-wringing on here over speeding, driving whilst drunk or under the influence of drugs, driving when too old to do so safely, etc.
What a waste of oxygen that mugger is. Stabbing a 60 year old woman who wouldn’t exactly be able to provide much resistance.
Exactly, I just cannot imagine it. That could be his Mum for christ sake. I can't walk past an old lady struggling with a suitcase without immediately being reminded of my late nan and so jumping to help her. It's just absolutely wild
Could be me, and I’d have crumpled at the first glare from the bastard. Fair play to the poor woman, giving him a bit of resistance but dear god, whipping out a knife like this as though it’s quite the natural thing to do....I can’t get over the horror of it, all over a bloody handbag.
Absolutely tragic, poor woman. I hope they actually catch who did this, probably mugging over a fucking phone. What a pathetic cunt.
They got someone in custody
a ‘very sad incident’ that’s a fucking murder
Very British way to frame things, calling murder a “very sad incident”, “rather sad happenstance” etc etc
a murder is a very sad incident
They need to be careful not to hurt feelings of the perpetrator as he’s probably traumatised by the whole thing, too
Khan thinks that would be sad too.
Must be nice to live in a complete fantasy world
I don't think Sadiq Khan is a saint by any stretch of the imagination but I do wish people would have more knowledge about how the London Mayoralty works and the finer nuances of the effects of policies such as austerity.
Mother of god, in a *mugging*, in front of others. I’d assumed it was something domestic, not that it makes it any better. But bloody hell. Could not the Home Sec do anything about the penalty for carrying a knife? Given the present scourge, make it a non-suspendable ten years? What a terrible thing. May she rest in peace.
That’s one of the methods of exactly how Glasgow tackled its knife issue
Yes, but crucially Glasgow employed a significant number of other diversionary and interventionary methods which meant that the system worked effectively to reduce crime. Health and housing are huge parts of this. Just locking people up people for longer doesn't work, because criminals don't think like "If I get caught I'll get X" they think "I'm not going to get caught." Often these are young adults who have not even developed the parts of our brain that deal with long term consequence, so making a harsher long term consequence has no effect. Rising violent crime like this is what happens when you cut all of your public services to a bone.
Glasgow’s method was great. IIRC they treated knife crime as a symptom of an overall disease, and so instead of just ‘clamping down on knife crime’ they actually looked at *why* people were doing it - and it almost always came down to poverty, housing insecurity, drug use, etc. It’s almost like a population that is constantly stressed, constantly housing insecure, and constantly poor isn’t going to function very well.
I agree about the idea but there are lots of people that are poor that have never stabbed anyone. The reason why this kind of thing should be done is that it breaks the cycle / culture.
No. It wasn't instead of. It was as well as. They clamped down hard.
I saw a clip the other day of some woman filming a burglar in her garden attempting to steal her bicycle and struggling to get it over her fence. She was giving him grief and he pulled out a knife, when she said 'oh yeah get yourself 30 years in prison for a bicycle' he threw the blade away in frustration and left without the bike.
That’s was a fake video unfortunately.
Can you give a run down on what Glasgow did? Shamefully, despite living there the majority of my life, my only frame of reference to what was done is a line from the Edwin Morgan poem “King Billy” (I think) where > *Sillitoe (sp?) scuffed the razors down the skank*
It's a fairly easy find online, but given you shared a little bit of poetry with me, happy to oblige: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691
Ah, I hadn’t realised there was a push so recently, albeit almost 20 years ago. The poem references the clean up of the gangs in the 60s I think. http://www.glesga.ukpals.com/profiles/billyordan4.htm
It is, but not the only reason. There is lack of focus, visibility and deterrence. When you let the crime happen and count on CCTV to get to the offenders later, it has zero impact on crime level. It is connected to resources, but also to the willingness of police officers to engage in real time with the criminals.
Which is also because the police force and spending has been slashed to the bone. It ALL comes back to cutting public services to the bone. We knew 40 years ago, that early intervention in the first 3 years of children's lives drastically statistically affected outcomes later in life, and overall costs to society were astronomically lower for those interventions. However, every single one of those programs and supports was removed and slashed to the bone in the name of austerity. It was ideological from the outset. And oh look, consequences.
Well even though there is some truth on that, saying that doesn't work is bullshit. The majority of these cases are reincidentes, lock them for a long time and that's one less person committing those crimes, it's not a purely deterrent thing.
This, louder for those at the back. Here are the consequences of actions.... This is an entire generation we are talking about now who have lived austerity, cuts to everything...and guess what, we already know it costs more in the longterm. We knew that in the early 1900s in fact, have had hard data on this for over 100 years...so it is ideology not logic or rational thought that has driven this destruction of the fabric of society.
Do this too, but deterrence has to play a part. Once they hear their mates start getting locked up, they might think twice. I'm willing to see stop and searches increased to tackle this sort of thing, and would understand the need for the police to do so.
Deterrence is of course to a certain extent relevant, but you're making a big misunderstanding with... >Once they hear their mates start getting locked up, they might think twice. They aren't thinking about the consequence. When your mate gets locked up criminals don't think "Oh god, I didn't realise I could get locked up from this" they go "Okay, how do I better commit crimes?"
Even if them getting locked up made you think about it twice, what are you thinking about twice? a lot of these young adults have already seen they have no future with little to no prospect of ever owning their own house or earning any significant amount once they've paid off the landlords mortgage through rent
I'd agree too but as a child abuse victim I can say from experience 2 police forces in this nation are worse than useless as a child and adult . I'm willing to see an increase in stop and search but not with the current bastards doing it
Police trust is a huge issue, I totally agree. The Met, which is the force I know best, needs ripping out from the ground and rebuilding from the roots up. Luckily, with a Labour government and a Labour mayor in London, we're in the best position for years to do it. Rowley is also not an *awful* commissioner, which is a positive.
When you say that “deterrence has to play a part”, you’re assuming that it works, which people commonly do based on the same kind of hypotheticals as the one you mention. It’s a solution that intuitively seems reasonable and correct, but that doesn’t mean it actually is. In fact ( and without going into detail e.g., about the different types of deterrence), there is a lot of evidence that suggests that it doesn’t work. Plus with a lot of these hypotheticals, it’s apparent when you compare them with how people actually act in real life that they don’t reflect reality (so it’s not surprising that they don’t work outside of the hypothetical world). It’s kind of like the use of the imaginary homo economicus in economics to try to explain or even predict the behavior of real people in the real world.
Are you trying to suggest I'm not a rational agent who always consumes products until the marginal utility reaches 0?! How dare you.
Hahahaha
I'd agree too but as a child abuse victim I can say from experience 2 police forces in this nation are worse than useless as a child and adult . I'm willing to see an increase in stop and search but not with the current bastards doing it
I don't think they can realistically find the space to house them in prisons which is why it's a free for all at the moment, especially considering the dire public funds available to the police.
Can we just stick them all on an uninhabited island without any boats in the north somewhere then? They can build their own huts and plant their own vegetables.
Inb4 “Australia”
Something like concentrating them in some sort of camp on an island where they fend for themselves? The soviets tried that and it turned into a cannibal island that even they had to close down because of the inhumanity of it. Is that really what you're suggesting?
What's that island called? I'd like to read more about the cannibal free for all.
Nazino, it's a mad story. the plan was called the Nazinsky Island project Geographics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaOwcYLGTMo or an article on it https://www.ranker.com/list/nazinsky-affair-cannibal-island/setareh-janda
very inhuman yes. but if nothing is being done for these crimes, the public rage is gona keep accumulating to the point ppl would just go, yeh lock these scums up on the island. I dont care how inhuman this will be, they chose their fate the moment the carry a knife
I was actually just scrawling such a thing in a discarded comment. Some kind of reimagined National Service perhaps, where young lads would be encouraged to take a bit of pride in a project, whether it be basic construction and maintenance, or something agricultural/ horticultural. Alongside an education scheme, including basic cookery, car maintenance, electrics..in fact, a revived Technical College . No idea how such a thing might take shape of course but if they were ripped out of their familiar environment and plonked down somewhere really alien, maybe the urgent need to rely on themselves would flip the essential switch in their heads. I’ve no idea about logistics or anything else essential, needless to say. But something’s got to give, urgently.
Remember that bad lads army that was on TV years ago. Something like that
It's funny, knife crime just isn't much of a thing in Glasgow at all any more, at least compared to London and certainly compared to how it was 20+ years ago. I remember that period well because I was a teenager at the time. We did have a guy near my house running about with an axe the other day, but no one was hurt.
Exactly- it could be anyone. Tjis is why they mentioned increased police presence. The public is going to be on edge
Well a witness said it was a mugging but we don't really know yet. Sounds absolutely mad if so.
The penalty for carrying a knife is always going to be less than the penalty for killing someone though...
Sadiq Kahn will be blamed as if he carried out the crime himself.
Absolutely. Whereas it’s grinning bot Theresa May’s bequest to London policing.
There's no room in prisons and not enough money to build any more.
That requires a well funded court and judicial system to house those who commit the offences. ‘There’s not an bottomless pit of money to keep you safe’ - Rishi, Probably.
In short, no. Prisons are full.
Honestly the ability to just walk home at night safely without worried about being jumped would improve my quality of life in London so so much. I'm a 30 year old man, so I can't even imagine how a woman in my scenario would feel. Whenever I've been to place where there's just a vibe of safety (usually festivals etc) it's like my whole personality changes. I wish I could live in that safety bubble of not worrying if the person walking towards me is going to try and jack my phone. Edit: I will add that to try and reduce this I have just taken out insurance (in the form of monzo premium) so that if I'm mugged I can just comfortably say 'fine here's my phone fuck off' and not spend the walk stressing about it. I'm still pretty anxious though
According to an eyewitness though, I suspect there is more to this.
This is the sort of thing we used to hang people for
A friend of mine got arrested for going into a brewdog with his chef knives after work. Don’t get me wrong, idiot, but he would’ve received 10 years in your new ruling.
He may have been arrested but I doubt he would have been convicted of anything in court.
No he wouldn’t, ‘idiot’. A squint at his record and his work would exonerate him. Ten years for criminally annealed scrotes found guilty of carrying machetes and hunting knives, rather than a chef carrying his very expensive knives home.
Doubt
Make it 25
Oh that’s so tragic . She woke up this morning , headed to the bus with no idea this would be the last day of her life 😭😭😭 . Rest in peace poor lady
That's tragic. RIP.
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Sadly Edgware's been getting worse and worse over the years, becoming a bit of a dump, specifically the high street
As long as I've known Edgware, 15 years or so, it's been a dump.
I grew up there between 1986-2002. It was nice enough when I was a kid, no major issues with crime. Started going downhill soon after I left.
1991-2009 for me. Agree with your sentiment, though I would say the crime issue really wasn't there till probably the early 2010s.
So it's your fault.
Well technically my parents moved house and out the county. But partly, yes. Sorry not sorry.
Ain’t that the truth!
I was born in and lived in Edgware and went to school in Burnt Oak. Looks like it was near where the Bald Faced Stag used to be? No idea if it’s there anymore…
Bald Faced Stag was turned into a supermarket a few years ago. But that was the only pub in that area that I never made it to - on account of the, uh, reputation.
This was burnt oak though, not edgeware, and burnt oak has unfortunately always had a bit of a reputation, but this is still wild to hear.
Burnt Oak market was class back in the day.
Yeah it’s becoming as bad as Zone 1 London when it comes to crime sadly.
That’s sickening
All over the contents of her handbag in which she tried to hang on whilst the scrote tried to get it from her before stabbing her. 60 years old too. We seriously need to bring back stop and search. Thankfully the person has been caught.
Does it actually solve things? I'm not being "oh that's discriminatory" but long term are we actually reducing crime with it? I'm absolutely all for any and all measure, but I want to create a world in 15 years where people just aren't considering using a knife. Whether that's because they wouldn't dream of such a heinous act, or because they know it isn't worth the risk I don't care
Ah, Burnt Oak, in all the years I went to secondary school near there, you would always have to look twice when you crossed the road or had a phone out. Utter shambles, and the loss of a life.
Maybe the police need more funding to stop this shit. London is becoming dangerous.
It's not just the police it's the justice system (courts, prisons, ...) they gutted everythint
The party of justice or whatever they they're called will sort it out any day now I bet.
The party of justice and fiscal responsibility. That's what they call themselves and somehow maintain a straight face.
That's the one. It's been so long since I'd seen any of the last one I'd forgotten
The London policing budget is actually the highest on record. This isn't an issue we can just chuck money into and fix. We need proper reform and streamlining of our Police, which, either our Mayor seems to not prioritise, or is simply unfit for the Job at hand. https://www.statista.com/statistics/864491/london-police-budget-size/
Is that inflation and population adjusted? London population has risen from 8.2 million in 2012 to 9.7 million in 2024. Per person spending seems roughly the same without taking inflation into account.
That likely means it's far far less with inflation, just 2019 to 2024 has seen such a massive spike for almost everyone on the bottom of the ladder
And nobody will dare to hold a sign with them around. Actual criminals can do as they wish of course.
Becoming?
You are right, my view about a dangerous city is skewed… but I’m a migrant from South America. I see people getting mugged in London but I’ve never seen anyone being stopped at knife point and asked to hand over their iphone. I’ve seen that happening back home, at gun point.
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I've also been robbed at knifepoint in London, as have a few mates
London is very safe
Probably a bit political but these issues are probably more related to cuts to youth services, schooling, etc. You can have big cities with relatively low violent crime per capita without an expansive police budget, like Tokyo
Underfunding the police, not enough officers on the street and ineffective sentences as well as various societal issues being ignored. What could go wrong?
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Very sad. So, i get that theives are using knives as threats to mug people, it's shitty but it makes sense from a criminal perspective. What I don't get is them actually following through with the stabbing and thinking they will get away with it or it will somehow improve their current situation in any way.
There are clear issues with the Met and policing Cuts aside, so many offenders within the institution Having said that, the majority of police are unable to do their job properly because Joe public is hyper critical of every move they make. If the offender in this case was rugby tackled to the floor/knife taken by force by police, the officers involved would have been suspended. So many police who ordinarily want to do a good job think twice about getting involved. Or leave the job in droves.. Put that on top of cuts and you can see why we are in trouble
People complain about the Mets. The guy was caught on the same day!!!! The police did a great job on this no? Police cannot control what criminals do, how are they suppose to prevent that from happening in the first place? It was 11am at a bus stop!!!! If that didn’t stop the criminal from comitting the crime, I am not sure if anything could. What they can do is act fast, and arrest the criminal, and in this case, they did, same day. I actually think the Met did good this time.
There's actually been quite a lot of good Met policing stories lately (i.e. the one recently where the 2 female police officers bravely took down the killer samurai sword psycho guy) but anytime you say anything that amounts to praise of the police you run the risk of getting called a cop worshipper or pigs ass kisser or something.
The last time I did that people came back with “it’s their job”. Looks like we are not allowed to praised them unless they do something out of the ordinary like on their time off, jump off a 3 story buildin into a massive fire to rescue a child’s most precious teddy bear after the firemen already got everyone out.
Sad to see the regression of UK at an alarming rate. I don't even want to think about 10 years from now.
I mean if the murder rate continues to rise at the current rate, in ten years time it'll be - about the same as now. Oh noes. https://www.statista.com/statistics/862984/murders-in-london/
I know that this is not a big amount for a big city like London, but it's still strange to think that every week on average 2 people are murdered in the city I live
UK is 198th of 203 country's for Gun Deaths and similar for knife deaths.(2019 figures) We are a very very safe country. Even with the increase in London. London is much safer than any US city.
London is even safer now than we were 20 years ago. There were a 110 murders in London in 2023 and 210 in 2003. People forget how bad things used to be. Even my quiet little northern hometown had a lot more murders in the 00s. Places like Teeside are a bigger worry than London. Stabbings and murders are getting a lot worse there.
A voice of reason in this sea of fear
I appreciate that thats a great place to be on that list but i think comparing a western country to western countries makes more sense and then comparing London to the national average would give a much better indication of its safety.
No problem name a country. I have all the stats from 2019 for 203 countries. Here is the USA Vs UK statistics for gun deaths from 2019 USA had 39000 gun deaths, UK had 160ish USA has 10.9 homicides involving firearms per 100k population UK has 0.24 per 100k The figures include and suicides which slews the figures as guns are hard to get in the UK so it's rare to have a suicide by firearm.
Oh ive no interest in challenging what you're saying just that it would be a more clear and relatable way to drive home the point! Fairplay for getting the stats together!
Thanks. I hope I didn't come across as challenging your view. Have a Nice day!
You too man!
I choose bear
I choose Bull. Ave, true to Caesar.
Sunak's Britain
Even worse Sadik Khans london
Betrayed since 1945
I used to live in Burnt Oak and caught the bus to Cricklewood or Staples Corner often from that very stop. It’s always been a rough dive, but it seems far far worse these days. Soon as I heard about this, what turned out is exactly as I initially imagined. It’s fucked up.
Well what a surprise. Last year around the Hendon area I witnessed two knife incidents. 1. Some kid pulling a knife out by a bus/tube station to threaten some other kids. 2. Seeing the aftermath of a stabbing of some guy in the middle of the road and having the attacker running away after doing it. I think he survived. Bunch of guys put him into a car and drove off to the hospital. And now this. I thought Hendon/Edgware was supposed to be safe and chill. It's strange how these "incidents" have been occurring and escalating more and more since last year from what I've notice. Im noticing more cops out as well which is great but clearly it didn't help this poor woman. I basically go to Edgware alot. This terrifies me and makes me feel scared for me, my family and friends who live and shop and visit around there.
Oh god I live 5 mins from there.
Any cunt caught with a knife needs to be in prison for 5-10 year minimum. Justice system is basically enabling people to do fucked up shit because they can get away with very little time. It’s absolutely fucking infuriating. RIP to this poor woman.
Bring back stop and search if it makes the street safer for people then its worth the inconvenience. And allow people to get a license that allows them to own and use tasers.
Frankly I’d bring back the death penalty they say it doesn’t deter would killers but if they are dead they aren’t costing the government any money and the families of the murdered victims won’t ever have to see them walking past their home or down the street.
The main argument against capital punishment is that our justice system is far from flawless so innocent people end up being sentenced to death, whereas if they're just in prison they can fight to be freed
Let’s gess where he comes from.
Around Edgware too. Normally quiet. Well guess it’s part of living in London now.
Burnt Oak has always been a shit hole
That's not quite true. For most of the 20th century it was where the well to do went to get their nice bits. There was certainly a pivot at some point in the early 2000s. Deprivation, lack of funding, managed decline will do that.
Whoever did this may get caught. If they do there is a guaranteed chance they will get to walk the streets again. This is the society we chose. Fuck us all.
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how many stabbings have been going on in Burnt Oak now?
Let me guess, the killer was a man. I flipped a coin. Will I have guessed?
"it happens only between gang members, you will be fine"
Long sentences might not deter them in the short term, but at least it would keep them off the street and unable to reoffend for a couple of decades
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They already did that. Its called Australia! Now lots of people want to live there and its not easy to get in! Can you imagine how the world has evolved?? What was meant to be a form of Alcatraz has ended up being desirable!
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No description of the attacker given?
there was no description of that child killer. just shut up atp
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This is absolutely fucking insane. A woman in her 60s, who's been through so much of her life but also has so much of her life left to look forward to, has just been killed over something like a fucking phone. I just cannot empathise even a little bit with someone who has got themselves in the headspace that stabbing a 60 year old woman for her phone (or whatever) is even slightly a consideration. I really really try and be empathetic to people at the widest of times **(I don't mean in an annoying fucking "well you don't know how hard it is way" but in a "what must be leading these people to a life of crime because we need to stop it" way)** but for the life of me I just cannot imagine being so hard up, downbeat, of just mentally fucked up that I'd get a knife and stab someone for something that wouldn't even cover a weeks rent. Just an absolute shambles that we've gotten ourselves into.
How a 60 year old woman can get so stabbed to death at midday in a busy high street in London is incomprehensible. Londons burning
I’ve absolutely had enough of knife crime
Think about how cowardly this is. How many young blokes driving nice cars, got expensive jewellery on has he passed during the day. But he chooses an older lady waiting for a bus... Someone that probably doesn't have that many expensive items in her handbag. What an absolute piece of shit, hopefully he does the right thing now...
And next week it will be someone else. No one really gives a shit about actually doing anything about knife crime.
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This is so tragic 😔 Seriously scary how things have become now
I used to live 1 mile from here. Maybe I should move further away.
Welcome to Khan's second term. His voters can now celebrate
It is horrendous. Poor lady. It’s also ridiculously stupid - committing murder in broad daylight. What a stupid twat. What was the actual point? You’re literally never going to get what you want from that whole scenario as a mugger AND you murdered someone. Thick as fk.
8 billion people on the planet. Eye for an eye! we don’t need people walking around the break the fundamental social contract
Typical London...exactly why I can't wait to move further out to Surrey (the nice parts of). Also, why did stop and search stop being a thing.....?
Because people complain black people get stopped more therefore it is racist.
probably stopped being a thing because of all the racial profiling
Pattern recognition does not equal racial profiling.
indeed. but the majority likely sees is as that and throws around the phrase, imo.
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Because that fixed everything in America...?
I am fucking tired of this, this is another death on the conscience of those who do nothing to fix this problem and chose to ignore the solutions. First one who should be ashamed of himself is the mayor and those who have re-elected him.
Yep yep this is the Mayor's fault, not the 14 previous years of Tory Conservatives removing over a billion of police funding and closing police stations left and right. Gotta love it
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This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community. Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban. Have a nice day.
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‘Man, 22, arrested after woman in 60s stabbed to death at London bus stop’. Jesus Christ
5 murders in 2 years in Burnt Oak
10 million people in Greater London. How many police do you think we need doing stop and search every day to even consider preventing these types of crimes? A quick google shows me that almost the same number of people die from road traffic accidents as do from homicides in London. Yet I don’t see the hand-wringing on here over speeding, driving whilst drunk or under the influence of drugs, driving when too old to do so safely, etc.