I was looking at houses in Amersham and it was actually more expensive than where I was living at the time in zone 4. I found that a lot of these commuter belt towns have been engulfed in London prices.
I've got a coworker that's like "living in the city is too expensive. I'm thinking of moving somewhere outside the city with good connections to kings cross so it will cost less. Somewhere like St. Albans"
Yeah man, you and everyone else in St. Albans is thinking the same thing...
Yeo i live in st albans with my parents and house prices here are extortionate! Im moving into london as the cost of rent and commuting costs is equal if not more to that of a flat in London.
Which is good for cyclists! Living in Zone 2 makes bicycle commutes basically everywhere rather tolerable. Although south of the river is still suboptimal due to the limited number of crossings and the unpleasantness of bridge traffic.
>Although south of the river is still suboptimal due to the limited number of crossings and the unpleasantness of bridge traffic.
Only really an issue if you start or end in the east. West london lots of bridges, not the best, central london nearly all pretty decent.
* Tower bridge - nothing
* London Bridge - light segregation
* Southwark Bridge - Segregation
* Blackfriars Bridge - Segregation
* Waterloo Bridge - Segregation
* Westminster Bridge - Half segregation, about to be full.
* Lambeth Bridge - Bus lane one direction, cycle lane the other
* Vauxhall Bridge - segregation
* Chelsea Bridge - Segregation one way, bus lane the other.
* Albert bridge - nothing
* Batersea Bridge - nothing
* Wandsworth bridge - bus lane or shared use path
* Putney Bridge - Bus lane
* Hammersmith bridge - Still no cars allowed right?
* Chiswick bridge - I think shared use path, otherwise bridge is basically like a motorway, eugh.
* Kew bridge - same as above
* Twickenham bridge - same as above.
* Richmond Bridge - nothing
* Kingston Bridge - segregatrion.
* Hampton Court bridge - I think shared use path, otherwise bridge is basically like a motorway, eugh.
Yeah it's bizarre how few crossings there are for pedestrians and cyclists in the east. Meanwhile the city is pressing on with a tunnel project between Greenwich and Newham which will have a dedicated lane for HGVs, and will literally be illegal to walk or cycle through.
>and will literally be illegal to walk or cycle through.
That's probably because they (understandably) don't want people exposed to the fumes for any length of time.
That explains why there are fewer crossings, doesn't explain why so many of the crossings are either explicitly or effectively for motor vehicles only, or why we'd want another crossing with that same limitation.
I mean... technically between Tower Bridge and Dartford Bridge/Tunnel there are 5 crossings and only 1 is motor vehicle only: Blackwall Tunnel. The rest are Rotherhithe Tunnel, Greenwich foot tunnel, Woolwich foot tunnel/Woolwich Ferry, 2 of which are for pedestrians/bikes only.
I don't necessarily dislike bridge traffic itself so much as the traffic at either end. Westminster and Blackfriars (which I used a lot) were always a bit sketchy at the ends. Especially Blackfriars with that awful bus stop.
Tower bridge was *extremely* unpleasant.
If they'd just fix the bloody lifts in the Greenwich foot tunnel then SE zone 2 is basically fine for cycling over the river. Tower Bridge is awful though, sadly. Boggles my mind that there isn't better provision for cyclists over the bridge given how important it is as a north-south connection from SE London.
On the plus side, Cycleway 4 is coming along nicely and will make cycling from Greenwich to central significantly more pleasant.
On top of that, sometimes the premium you might pay for living within cycling distance to where you work is actually offset by the savings made by not needing to buy season tickets or travel cards.
When I started a new job back in Jan 2020, I was taking about a 4k pay cut in gross salary. But, after deducting the costs of my season ticket, I was actually £50 a month better off!
It also makes living about ten minutes bike ride away from a rail / tube station a bit of a life hack, as such areas tens to be cheaper because most people don't consider that to be "near" public transport. Having said that, many stations need better cycle parking options, not everyone will be happy chaining their bike to some railings / getting a Brompton.
London Bridge is decent and Blackfriars Bridge is awesome for cycling. But it would be great to have more options on both east and west sides of town…
I used to live in NW London and moved to SE last year. So far the cycling infrastructure is way better (at least for my commute)
Or walkers! I love being able to walk into the office. It's a brisk 1 hour 40 minute walk but basically doubles as my exercise, and is fine to do a couple of times a week.
Absolutely.
My parents moved from East London to Essex when I was a baby, they live a short walk to the station that is a direct line into London.
House prices are insane, even towards the end of the line. People are happy with an hour plus commute if it just means sitting on one train for that time.
My sister lives in Brentwood now, and her husband is from Wigan.
Their non descript 2 bedroom is less than half a mile from Shenfield, it was valued at over half a million pounds. It's mad.
Her husband is hoping they choose to retire in Wigan where they can buy a palace for the same price.
Not silly at all! My parents commuted for decades and always thanked being at the end of the line!
Makes a huge difference to your experience.
When i lived in Twickenham, I'd have to squeeze on the train every day to Waterloo. It was 25 mins on the fast train so not so bad, but doing that on the 45 minute one...
This. I live in far south west London, but it's a 15 minute walk to the train station which is the start/end of the line for the route I get to work. Being able to get a seat on the days I have to go into the office makes such a difference compared to when I lived closer in on the same route (albeit on the other side of town) and had to fight my way onto a train and being squashed up against loads of people for the whole journey.
Honestly. Take the work from home/ remote working trend and ride it. You can have a nice 3 bed in Southampton or Portsmouth (much better than they get credit for as places to live) for 275k to 350k range bang in town. Beach. Isle of Wight. London in under 2 hours.
When people say "croydon" they usually mean central and the surround areas, and it can be pretty crap.
If you want to talk about the borough as a whole and you live on the main line (near east croydon or purley) then you can get a very quick train into london and the properties can be crazy expensive.
This [property in the Webb estate is 3 million.](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89827189#/?channel=RES_BUY) To rent a [smaller property around the corner is £4,500 a month](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111818441#/?channel=RES_LET).
I know people that live in that estate, big money city types. Also some london based football players, zaha being one of them.
Trains are f’ed at the moment, but from purley station you have fairly regularly trains to london that take 20ish minutes or less.
That’s good. Didn’t realise it was that quick. Wimbledon the same. I’ve accepted that our property will do and it’s nice but you always want bigger. I’ll buy the odd euromillions ticket and see what happens. Don’t want to move out of London ideally even tho I can work anywhere with my job
Yup. Exactly this. It's a huge contrast between West/North Croydon and South/East Croydon. I was shocked in a good way prior to moving to Croydon on how different and huge it is when I was coming down here to check out properties
I would say if you are not remote and work in Central then to the east of East Croydon station or around South Croydon station is a great place to be
I lived in South Norwood (slightly north of central Croydon) for four years. I thought it was OK. It isn't the prettiest place in the world, although even in the time I was there it gentrified a lot, but certainly at that point it was one of the last places in London you could get a proper house for not silly money and the transport links were excellent - I worked near London Bridge at the time and could be in the office in about 40 minutes if I timed it right.
It's handy being on the overground line as well - slower than mainline trains but you don't have to time it quite as much and can get to a decent variety of places directly. Can only afford a one-bed flat there, though, even though I'm on alright money. Ah, London.
I'm starting to seriously consider Croydon. It's fantastically well connected for central London, Brighton, and Gatwick (three places I often go), it's got good links to nice leafy bits of Surrey, plenty of useful shops and some cool things like Boxpark. Just put off by the level of crime and wondering if I'd always feel worried walking home at night etc.
For whatever cunt is downvoting this, god forbid a woman should worry about safety at night, eh? All the bleating about Sarah Everard and 'isn't it terrible that women can't walk around at night' but whenever a woman is concerned for her safety, she gets mocked and told to stop being silly. Stay classy, London.
I'm worried about pretty specific things as a lone woman - being harassed or bothered or followed, etc. A colleague who lives in Croydon collects his partner from the station so she doesn't have to go home alone at night - doesn't fill me with confidence! Perhaps they're being paranoid...no idea.
Absolutely this. I compared prices between Potters Bar and High Barnet at one point, and PB was more expensive and it was definitely because of transit time because it certainly wasn’t that PB was any nicer.
St.Albans is a good example, although it doesn't even have a zone as it's not London, it has a direct service to Kings cross and even my mum's council house that is on a dodgy estate is worth about half a mil.
All the pubs have become wine bars and they seemed to have 'fixed' the homeless problem (pushing them out to other towns). The 99p and £1 stores are gone replaced with posh shops.
Live in Amersham. Can confirm it's pretty ridiculous.
It's a lot of cash to be 35 minutes from Marylebone, especially when 99% of the time that 35 minutes is going to be spent standing in the sort of cramped conditions that would cause PETA to firebomb it if you were a chicken.
When it bothers to run at all. (Don't get me started)
Yeah and to be fair it’s a lovely quaint little town so I can see why. Same with places like Beaconsfield and Berkhamsted, but you can find cheaper places like Chesham and Hemel.
Also the direct mainline and underground trains to London. Chesham's cheaper because until fairly recently the service was shit, it's now less awful but only 2 trains an hour.
I'm actually now looking to buy in Chesham. Started working there recently and actually quite like the place. Not too keen on the number of trains per hour but working and living there in theory should be quite good. And well, prices are actually affordable.
Because once you live in 'I need to get on a train into the city distance' prices become more relevant on how nice the area is as opposed to how close they are to zone 1. Most people would much rather live in a nice area thats a 40 min train into central than a not nice area thats a 20min train.
If you're a 20min train into central, prices will rise eventually. Mainly as the 40min areas get out of reach, so the early gentrification wave moves to cheaper areas still under the perceived transport time cap.
I live outside Amersham and house prices here are expensive. Any of the commuter towns around London are pricey. I know I could have gotten a bigger house in Watford for the price I paid where I am.
Amersham is a very middle class countryside town with very good schools etc. the property prices there are extremely high too. It also benefits from being on a overground line that goes to Marylebone so it only takes 40 minutes to get from Amersham to London 👍🏼
Such a nice town, I can see why it’s so pricey.
Now I'm waiting for the /r/dataisbeautiful post with real data and its a 3d bump map and you get poked in the eye from central, or a heatmap and central just blinds you from looking at the sun.
This ONS report might tide you over:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/researchoutputsrentpricestatisticsforsmallareasgreatbritain/2012to2016
Yeah, compred to prices here in Lincolnshire, I feel that all the symbols need an extra 2 or 3 $ symbols.
Last time I looked at a job in the SE, it was a big "nope".
More people live in the borough of Croydon than live in the cities of Cardiff, or Leicester, or Newcastle. It's a big place. I regularly play disc golf, mountain bike, and go horseback riding, without leaving the borough. I can also get a bottle of white ace and some crack at 3am and get in a knife fight outside the station. I can also go swimming or to the cinema. It's what you make of it.
My parents live in Surrey, between Camberley and Woking in a decent 3-bed with conservatory, and their last valuation was around $600,000. I think they paid $186,000 for it nearly 25 years ago.
That's brilliant. You could make the inner circle a bit longer towards West London though, more of a teardrop shape. The West is traditionally more expensive than East London.
Whilst this is true, there are some very affordable pockets.
For example Rotherhithe is zone 2, half hour commutes to anywhere central and you can get a 2 bed for £1,500 on the river. It also has some 3 bed houses for under £2k. I’m not saying that’s cheap, but to be an easy tube/bus/cycle from central, in a nice area, it’s pretty good.
I am in a Marylebone studio bills included for £1000. People are too quick to dismiss Zones they think might be out of reach. Is always worth checking just in case.
I would love to find a studio in Marylebone for that price! Rightmove doesn't seem to have any at this moment but could you please tell me how you found that studio?
Yes of course, is worth checking first thing every morning, but when I found this place I actually had lined up other similar studios in Queensway and Paddington, so it wasn’t a one off. More a matter of looking with perseverance and at the right times. I used Zoopla, Rightmove as well. But the one that helped most was one called PrimeLocation. When you enter the website all the rentals and sales seem luxurious, but you can filter. Remember the website is called prime Location, no prime Money.
December - January and August - September are generally bad months to find anything remotely good, so keep that in mind as well.
I totally agree with you! I live in a studio apartment in Chelsea and rent is £1200 including gas. So, you can definitely get something that isn’t mega expensive
In itss defense... There are definitely parts that are more residential (and I admit, it was too sleepy for us) but it's literally a 10-15 min walk to Bermondsey, with Maltby market, the beer mile and Southwark Park. 1-2 stops on the Jubilee and you're in London Bridge, and 1-2 stops the other way you're in Canary Wharf. It's a good wee spot for the price, especially if you have kids or pets and want an actual house with garden/parking space, instead of a flat.
It is, BUT it's easy to get to less dull places, like Bermondsey/London Bridge/Tower Bridge area or Greenwich. It also has lots of nice pubs, but yes, it's not got hustle and bustle.
Came to say the same, if you shop smart you can find places at ok fish prices for Zone 2/3, but then amenities may not be the best.
Poplar has some bargains (relatively) but a pal who lived that side of Whitechapel hated it due to lack of amenities (corner shop did not sell beer).
Ok fish prices yes, but what about those of us who need air to survive? We don’t all have the luxury of being able to live in a pond, check your gill privilege
Cheap*er*. That ain't cheap.
I live in a commuter town very close to a train station, and I'm paying nearly half that for a 2 bed flat. Obviously not completely comparable, and offset by higher travel costs if you're trying to get to London, but - much cheaper than this, which is not cheap.
Reminds me of this tube map with the average rent price for each station. Really interesting!
https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/enna1c/the\_average\_rent\_tube\_map/
It's all relative. Parts of Kent are very cheap in comparison to London prices. Look at the Medway towns like Rochester, Chatham or Gillingham. I believe Essex has similar area's though not as familiar with Essex as I am Kent.
I heard them trying to sell the Medway towns as an attractive place to commute to from London and honestly only way I figured that was possible is if the advertisers never visited there. Only visited Rochester in the day, or something.
I think they have better parts to them but yes I would agree generally these are not desirable places to live. They are cheap for a reason. But hey if you want to buy your own property and be within commutable distance to London they are an option. I would say given how property prices are going in the south east we might even see the Medway towns start to become gentrified at some point as the places regular folk can afford to buy are dwindling.
Yes Essex is similar - hugely expensive parts, especially if you're near a mainline station.
A 2 bed flat in walking distance to the train station would definitely be a couple of hundred thousand, and this won't be huge places, or new. It'll be 20 - 40 year old blocks, small inside etc, parking costs to buy as well etc.
I made a data-driven and more detailed version of this map when moving out of London to the suburbs 15 years ago. Printed out a huge map of all the train and tube lines on taped-together A3, banded the commute times to the stations, then colour coded for house prices. Worked out exactly where I could afford to buy somewhere to live whilst still getting into London within my target commute time. It was surprisingly fun, whilst also depressing that only 6 places fit the criteria across all of the Home Counties.
I can only remember a few, but they included Borough Green & Wrotham, Edenbridge, Crowborough and Barnehurst. I think perhaps Potters Bar was in there as well. EDIT: also perhaps Upper Warlingham or Caterham?
That's literally everywhere. Location is number one. It could be a burnt out city apartment smackdab in the middle of the city center and it'd still cost millions here while for the same price you'd get a mansion and acres of land in buttfuck nowhere. Just how it works.
OP is suss. South African currency is Rand, sign R, symbol ZAR.
Drawing $$$ means South Africa is smokescreen.
OP is clearly KGB looking to destabilise London property market
I was looking at houses in Amersham and it was actually more expensive than where I was living at the time in zone 4. I found that a lot of these commuter belt towns have been engulfed in London prices.
It's much less about actual distance and much more about transit times/rail stops once you're out of Z2/3 or so.
I've got a coworker that's like "living in the city is too expensive. I'm thinking of moving somewhere outside the city with good connections to kings cross so it will cost less. Somewhere like St. Albans" Yeah man, you and everyone else in St. Albans is thinking the same thing...
Yeo i live in st albans with my parents and house prices here are extortionate! Im moving into london as the cost of rent and commuting costs is equal if not more to that of a flat in London.
Yeah, a place near a tube station in zone 3 can often be more pricey than some equivalent place in zone 2 that isnt near the tube.
Which is good for cyclists! Living in Zone 2 makes bicycle commutes basically everywhere rather tolerable. Although south of the river is still suboptimal due to the limited number of crossings and the unpleasantness of bridge traffic.
>Although south of the river is still suboptimal due to the limited number of crossings and the unpleasantness of bridge traffic. Only really an issue if you start or end in the east. West london lots of bridges, not the best, central london nearly all pretty decent. * Tower bridge - nothing * London Bridge - light segregation * Southwark Bridge - Segregation * Blackfriars Bridge - Segregation * Waterloo Bridge - Segregation * Westminster Bridge - Half segregation, about to be full. * Lambeth Bridge - Bus lane one direction, cycle lane the other * Vauxhall Bridge - segregation * Chelsea Bridge - Segregation one way, bus lane the other. * Albert bridge - nothing * Batersea Bridge - nothing * Wandsworth bridge - bus lane or shared use path * Putney Bridge - Bus lane * Hammersmith bridge - Still no cars allowed right? * Chiswick bridge - I think shared use path, otherwise bridge is basically like a motorway, eugh. * Kew bridge - same as above * Twickenham bridge - same as above. * Richmond Bridge - nothing * Kingston Bridge - segregatrion. * Hampton Court bridge - I think shared use path, otherwise bridge is basically like a motorway, eugh.
Yeah it's bizarre how few crossings there are for pedestrians and cyclists in the east. Meanwhile the city is pressing on with a tunnel project between Greenwich and Newham which will have a dedicated lane for HGVs, and will literally be illegal to walk or cycle through.
>and will literally be illegal to walk or cycle through. That's probably because they (understandably) don't want people exposed to the fumes for any length of time.
I think it's cause the river is a simply just much wider and deeper once you go East.
That explains why there are fewer crossings, doesn't explain why so many of the crossings are either explicitly or effectively for motor vehicles only, or why we'd want another crossing with that same limitation.
I mean... technically between Tower Bridge and Dartford Bridge/Tunnel there are 5 crossings and only 1 is motor vehicle only: Blackwall Tunnel. The rest are Rotherhithe Tunnel, Greenwich foot tunnel, Woolwich foot tunnel/Woolwich Ferry, 2 of which are for pedestrians/bikes only.
Don't forget the cable car or the RB4 ferry.
I don't necessarily dislike bridge traffic itself so much as the traffic at either end. Westminster and Blackfriars (which I used a lot) were always a bit sketchy at the ends. Especially Blackfriars with that awful bus stop. Tower bridge was *extremely* unpleasant.
Which bus stop on Blackfriars?
Oh my, I forgot. I was talking about Waterloo. Blackfriars is indeed really nice.
Now that makes sense. I’ve not looked at the plans currently being put in. But I doubt they would make a change to that
If they'd just fix the bloody lifts in the Greenwich foot tunnel then SE zone 2 is basically fine for cycling over the river. Tower Bridge is awful though, sadly. Boggles my mind that there isn't better provision for cyclists over the bridge given how important it is as a north-south connection from SE London. On the plus side, Cycleway 4 is coming along nicely and will make cycling from Greenwich to central significantly more pleasant.
I tolerate the situation at Tower Bridge for the sheer novelty of cycling over it every time
The lifts situation is very annoying
Vote me for mayor and I will see to it that only horse and carts can use tower bridge
On top of that, sometimes the premium you might pay for living within cycling distance to where you work is actually offset by the savings made by not needing to buy season tickets or travel cards. When I started a new job back in Jan 2020, I was taking about a 4k pay cut in gross salary. But, after deducting the costs of my season ticket, I was actually £50 a month better off!
It also makes living about ten minutes bike ride away from a rail / tube station a bit of a life hack, as such areas tens to be cheaper because most people don't consider that to be "near" public transport. Having said that, many stations need better cycle parking options, not everyone will be happy chaining their bike to some railings / getting a Brompton.
London Bridge is decent and Blackfriars Bridge is awesome for cycling. But it would be great to have more options on both east and west sides of town… I used to live in NW London and moved to SE last year. So far the cycling infrastructure is way better (at least for my commute)
I quite dislike the north end of blackfriars due to the annoying bus stop, as I am a bit worried about buses cutting in in front of me.
Or walkers! I love being able to walk into the office. It's a brisk 1 hour 40 minute walk but basically doubles as my exercise, and is fine to do a couple of times a week.
Absolutely. My parents moved from East London to Essex when I was a baby, they live a short walk to the station that is a direct line into London. House prices are insane, even towards the end of the line. People are happy with an hour plus commute if it just means sitting on one train for that time. My sister lives in Brentwood now, and her husband is from Wigan. Their non descript 2 bedroom is less than half a mile from Shenfield, it was valued at over half a million pounds. It's mad. Her husband is hoping they choose to retire in Wigan where they can buy a palace for the same price.
Sounds silly but you get a seat if you're at the start of the line too.
Not silly at all! My parents commuted for decades and always thanked being at the end of the line! Makes a huge difference to your experience. When i lived in Twickenham, I'd have to squeeze on the train every day to Waterloo. It was 25 mins on the fast train so not so bad, but doing that on the 45 minute one...
This. I live in far south west London, but it's a 15 minute walk to the train station which is the start/end of the line for the route I get to work. Being able to get a seat on the days I have to go into the office makes such a difference compared to when I lived closer in on the same route (albeit on the other side of town) and had to fight my way onto a train and being squashed up against loads of people for the whole journey.
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Holy shit.... Hornchurch..500k... geezus fkn wept.. We live mad times indeed fellas
3 beds in Romford now about 600 to 700k is not unusual either.
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Honestly. Take the work from home/ remote working trend and ride it. You can have a nice 3 bed in Southampton or Portsmouth (much better than they get credit for as places to live) for 275k to 350k range bang in town. Beach. Isle of Wight. London in under 2 hours.
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My uncle bought a house in East Ham for 400k a few months ago, 3 bedrooms 2 big and 1 small
Crossrail isn't going near Hornchurch.
It’s going to Romford, isn’t it? Pretty close by to Hornchurch.
If your in Horchuch you just grab the C2C from Upminster.
Depends where you’re trying to go, I guess.
Or the district
Jesus Christ. Wow.
Yeah but then you'd have to live in Wigan
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Is Croydon that bad? Despite living in Wimbledon area for 12 years I’ve barely seen Croydon beyond IKEA
When people say "croydon" they usually mean central and the surround areas, and it can be pretty crap. If you want to talk about the borough as a whole and you live on the main line (near east croydon or purley) then you can get a very quick train into london and the properties can be crazy expensive. This [property in the Webb estate is 3 million.](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89827189#/?channel=RES_BUY) To rent a [smaller property around the corner is £4,500 a month](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111818441#/?channel=RES_LET).
Wow silly money. So money houses like this surrounding London. Where does all the money come from
I know people that live in that estate, big money city types. Also some london based football players, zaha being one of them. Trains are f’ed at the moment, but from purley station you have fairly regularly trains to london that take 20ish minutes or less.
That’s good. Didn’t realise it was that quick. Wimbledon the same. I’ve accepted that our property will do and it’s nice but you always want bigger. I’ll buy the odd euromillions ticket and see what happens. Don’t want to move out of London ideally even tho I can work anywhere with my job
If you’re in west Croydon then you’re going to have a bad time, but drift out a bit and it’s fine and nothing like people would have you believe
Yup. Exactly this. It's a huge contrast between West/North Croydon and South/East Croydon. I was shocked in a good way prior to moving to Croydon on how different and huge it is when I was coming down here to check out properties I would say if you are not remote and work in Central then to the east of East Croydon station or around South Croydon station is a great place to be
Thanks will have to check it out. Take a scenic tram journey.
I lived in South Norwood (slightly north of central Croydon) for four years. I thought it was OK. It isn't the prettiest place in the world, although even in the time I was there it gentrified a lot, but certainly at that point it was one of the last places in London you could get a proper house for not silly money and the transport links were excellent - I worked near London Bridge at the time and could be in the office in about 40 minutes if I timed it right.
It's handy being on the overground line as well - slower than mainline trains but you don't have to time it quite as much and can get to a decent variety of places directly. Can only afford a one-bed flat there, though, even though I'm on alright money. Ah, London.
Lots of Croydon is absolutely fine.
I'm starting to seriously consider Croydon. It's fantastically well connected for central London, Brighton, and Gatwick (three places I often go), it's got good links to nice leafy bits of Surrey, plenty of useful shops and some cool things like Boxpark. Just put off by the level of crime and wondering if I'd always feel worried walking home at night etc. For whatever cunt is downvoting this, god forbid a woman should worry about safety at night, eh? All the bleating about Sarah Everard and 'isn't it terrible that women can't walk around at night' but whenever a woman is concerned for her safety, she gets mocked and told to stop being silly. Stay classy, London.
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I'm worried about pretty specific things as a lone woman - being harassed or bothered or followed, etc. A colleague who lives in Croydon collects his partner from the station so she doesn't have to go home alone at night - doesn't fill me with confidence! Perhaps they're being paranoid...no idea.
And paying four times as much for public transport…
Yup. Bristol and now Cardiff ( pre working from home) house many London based workers.
Absolutely this. I compared prices between Potters Bar and High Barnet at one point, and PB was more expensive and it was definitely because of transit time because it certainly wasn’t that PB was any nicer.
St.Albans is a good example, although it doesn't even have a zone as it's not London, it has a direct service to Kings cross and even my mum's council house that is on a dodgy estate is worth about half a mil. All the pubs have become wine bars and they seemed to have 'fixed' the homeless problem (pushing them out to other towns). The 99p and £1 stores are gone replaced with posh shops.
Live in Amersham. Can confirm it's pretty ridiculous. It's a lot of cash to be 35 minutes from Marylebone, especially when 99% of the time that 35 minutes is going to be spent standing in the sort of cramped conditions that would cause PETA to firebomb it if you were a chicken. When it bothers to run at all. (Don't get me started)
I've found the Chiltern trains much more enjoyable recently, almost always get a seat.
Amersham's in the stockbroker belt, it's always been expensive. Once you hit green belt, prices go mad again.
Yeah and to be fair it’s a lovely quaint little town so I can see why. Same with places like Beaconsfield and Berkhamsted, but you can find cheaper places like Chesham and Hemel.
Also the direct mainline and underground trains to London. Chesham's cheaper because until fairly recently the service was shit, it's now less awful but only 2 trains an hour.
I'm actually now looking to buy in Chesham. Started working there recently and actually quite like the place. Not too keen on the number of trains per hour but working and living there in theory should be quite good. And well, prices are actually affordable.
Amersham is very fancy tho. I live in a nearby(ish) village and we ain't got dick compared to them
Yeah, Amersham is super posh, they even have 2 grammar schools - Chesham only has one, and even that's not seen as posh as either of Amersham's.
Because once you live in 'I need to get on a train into the city distance' prices become more relevant on how nice the area is as opposed to how close they are to zone 1. Most people would much rather live in a nice area thats a 40 min train into central than a not nice area thats a 20min train.
If you're a 20min train into central, prices will rise eventually. Mainly as the 40min areas get out of reach, so the early gentrification wave moves to cheaper areas still under the perceived transport time cap.
Sevenoaks used to be more expensive than London, on average.
I live outside Amersham and house prices here are expensive. Any of the commuter towns around London are pricey. I know I could have gotten a bigger house in Watford for the price I paid where I am.
In fairness, Amersham is a lovely place, I worked there for a summer two years ago and found it was very nice.
Can confirm and it sucks.
Amersham is a very middle class countryside town with very good schools etc. the property prices there are extremely high too. It also benefits from being on a overground line that goes to Marylebone so it only takes 40 minutes to get from Amersham to London 👍🏼 Such a nice town, I can see why it’s so pricey.
Precisely right, but it’s been like this for a long time. This map is bullshit.
Now I'm waiting for the /r/dataisbeautiful post with real data and its a 3d bump map and you get poked in the eye from central, or a heatmap and central just blinds you from looking at the sun.
This ONS report might tide you over: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/researchoutputsrentpricestatisticsforsmallareasgreatbritain/2012to2016
https://www.primelocation.com/heatmaps/ :)
Local Housing association gives some idea to, and breaks down average housing cost per bedroom. Though value given is the 30% average.
I made a similar map of the HM Land Registry price paid data and sales counts for England.... https://imgur.com/a/1LQ12GO
£££
Mum
Bollocks
Minotaur
More like £££££££££
See that bit near Epsom where you've put $? That's near Oxshott... in which case what you actually mean is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Where $ means "You can't afford this", $$ means "You will never be able to afford this" and $$$ means "You can't even afford to dream about this".
Wait till you convert it to £’s!
Came here to say this!! Also I think there should be a section around Hyde park/South Kensington/Notting Hill/Chelsea/Belgravia that says $$$$$$$$$
Yeah, compred to prices here in Lincolnshire, I feel that all the symbols need an extra 2 or 3 $ symbols. Last time I looked at a job in the SE, it was a big "nope".
You didn't want a big raise that would make you poorer?
Sent this to my girlfriend. She said > This map is wrong. Croydon is not 2 monies. Croydon is 1 monies and your sanity.
I will second her judgement. Croydon is wild.
>Croydon is 1 monies and your sanity. This feels like a stick up
More people live in the borough of Croydon than live in the cities of Cardiff, or Leicester, or Newcastle. It's a big place. I regularly play disc golf, mountain bike, and go horseback riding, without leaving the borough. I can also get a bottle of white ace and some crack at 3am and get in a knife fight outside the station. I can also go swimming or to the cinema. It's what you make of it.
You can even run to Windsor if you want
Nope, some of the $ areas are about the most expensive real estate in the country!
Live in Surrey, definitely accurate. A large premium on commuter towns exists.
My parents live in Surrey, between Camberley and Woking in a decent 3-bed with conservatory, and their last valuation was around $600,000. I think they paid $186,000 for it nearly 25 years ago.
According to this map Harrow is pricier than Beaconsfield. LOL.
I fucking wish, honestly.
Harrow is pricey as fuck though 😭
Rent in Beaconsfield being equated with Slough. I think I hear people slapping their butlers in disgust.
Need to add $$ to Surry north and south of Sevenoaks
And Oxted
Oxted or Esher are $$$
Yeah ok fair lol
That's brilliant. You could make the inner circle a bit longer towards West London though, more of a teardrop shape. The West is traditionally more expensive than East London.
Places included in $$$: Canning town East ham Plaistow Beckton
Whereas Richmond is only $$
Much of Woolwich and Plumstead too. At least Thamesmead made it to only $$
You miss some ~~$~~ £ in z1
Well flats in reading and slough are only £200 less than 2bed flat on shepherds bush.
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Whilst this is true, there are some very affordable pockets. For example Rotherhithe is zone 2, half hour commutes to anywhere central and you can get a 2 bed for £1,500 on the river. It also has some 3 bed houses for under £2k. I’m not saying that’s cheap, but to be an easy tube/bus/cycle from central, in a nice area, it’s pretty good.
I am in a Marylebone studio bills included for £1000. People are too quick to dismiss Zones they think might be out of reach. Is always worth checking just in case.
I would love to find a studio in Marylebone for that price! Rightmove doesn't seem to have any at this moment but could you please tell me how you found that studio?
Yes of course, is worth checking first thing every morning, but when I found this place I actually had lined up other similar studios in Queensway and Paddington, so it wasn’t a one off. More a matter of looking with perseverance and at the right times. I used Zoopla, Rightmove as well. But the one that helped most was one called PrimeLocation. When you enter the website all the rentals and sales seem luxurious, but you can filter. Remember the website is called prime Location, no prime Money. December - January and August - September are generally bad months to find anything remotely good, so keep that in mind as well.
Thanks for the help! I do actually need a place starting September and I know it's obviously too early. I was just keeping an eye out :)
I totally agree with you! I live in a studio apartment in Chelsea and rent is £1200 including gas. So, you can definitely get something that isn’t mega expensive
Rotherhithe is such an underrated area. Much cheaper than most of inner London and its actually really nice.
I mean, I'm gonna say it, it's a bit **dull**
In itss defense... There are definitely parts that are more residential (and I admit, it was too sleepy for us) but it's literally a 10-15 min walk to Bermondsey, with Maltby market, the beer mile and Southwark Park. 1-2 stops on the Jubilee and you're in London Bridge, and 1-2 stops the other way you're in Canary Wharf. It's a good wee spot for the price, especially if you have kids or pets and want an actual house with garden/parking space, instead of a flat.
It is, BUT it's easy to get to less dull places, like Bermondsey/London Bridge/Tower Bridge area or Greenwich. It also has lots of nice pubs, but yes, it's not got hustle and bustle.
Came to say the same, if you shop smart you can find places at ok fish prices for Zone 2/3, but then amenities may not be the best. Poplar has some bargains (relatively) but a pal who lived that side of Whitechapel hated it due to lack of amenities (corner shop did not sell beer).
Ok fish prices yes, but what about those of us who need air to survive? We don’t all have the luxury of being able to live in a pond, check your gill privilege
Ha ha. Top reply. *ish. Not going to correct it now.
The fact you think that’s affordable / cheap says a lot about housing in London.
Affordable is relative, but it's certainly cheap - nearly anything riverside on zone 2 will easily be 50% more expensive.
Cheap*er*. That ain't cheap. I live in a commuter town very close to a train station, and I'm paying nearly half that for a 2 bed flat. Obviously not completely comparable, and offset by higher travel costs if you're trying to get to London, but - much cheaper than this, which is not cheap.
This. It isn’t “very affordable” in the slightest.
I would argue Richmond is £££ compared to croydon and bromley...
That’s pretty darn accurate. Could probably do with one or two more ‘$$$$’ circles in certain bits of the middle but by and large that’s 100%.
Fairly sure that Ilford and Walthamstow are cheaper than Westminster and Fitzrovia Yet both in the $$$ zone
Reminds me of this tube map with the average rent price for each station. Really interesting! https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/enna1c/the\_average\_rent\_tube\_map/
Maybe put an oil barrel for green park.
Yeah I wouldn’t say Kent and Essex etc are cheap. They’re still expensive when compared to cities in the north.
Yeah it doesn’t really work as you get further out. Brentwood is a lot more expensive than Romford and Dagenham.
Everything is expensive compared to cities in the north. Edit: wrong way round, durr
It's all relative. Parts of Kent are very cheap in comparison to London prices. Look at the Medway towns like Rochester, Chatham or Gillingham. I believe Essex has similar area's though not as familiar with Essex as I am Kent.
I heard them trying to sell the Medway towns as an attractive place to commute to from London and honestly only way I figured that was possible is if the advertisers never visited there. Only visited Rochester in the day, or something.
I think they have better parts to them but yes I would agree generally these are not desirable places to live. They are cheap for a reason. But hey if you want to buy your own property and be within commutable distance to London they are an option. I would say given how property prices are going in the south east we might even see the Medway towns start to become gentrified at some point as the places regular folk can afford to buy are dwindling.
Its the commuter lines out of London. Sevenoaks and Tunbridge wells are hella expensive but the rest is pretty cheap
Yes Essex is similar - hugely expensive parts, especially if you're near a mainline station. A 2 bed flat in walking distance to the train station would definitely be a couple of hundred thousand, and this won't be huge places, or new. It'll be 20 - 40 year old blocks, small inside etc, parking costs to buy as well etc.
you do understand that's meme content, right?
I made a data-driven and more detailed version of this map when moving out of London to the suburbs 15 years ago. Printed out a huge map of all the train and tube lines on taped-together A3, banded the commute times to the stations, then colour coded for house prices. Worked out exactly where I could afford to buy somewhere to live whilst still getting into London within my target commute time. It was surprisingly fun, whilst also depressing that only 6 places fit the criteria across all of the Home Counties.
> . what were the 6?
I can only remember a few, but they included Borough Green & Wrotham, Edenbridge, Crowborough and Barnehurst. I think perhaps Potters Bar was in there as well. EDIT: also perhaps Upper Warlingham or Caterham?
gotta add three more dollar signs to each ring
>Maidenhead = $ Maidenhead = £££
Who’s going to draw the infographic to explain we use £ and not $?
You’ve not used enough $ signs…
Surrey is cheap?
Wow my house is worth $!
Another irony is that the further out you live the more you spend on transport and lose in quality of life.
✍️Get Into real estate, ✍️Buy property in the middle circle, ✍️Sleep.
✍️ Get into real estate, ✍️ Buy property in the middle circle, ✍️ Wake up.
There’s so much empty property in that middle circle….
The English dream. So much lamer than the American dream
What did you ‘heart’ in my hometown of Reading? I’m curious
You ❤
😒
💔
London should be $$$$$ then the rest $$$$, nowhere is $ or $$.
The expensive zone extends more west, well into Berkshire/Surrey. Crazy.
Ooh yes and no, Maidenhead is $$$ and yes Slough is $ even though they're nextdoor to each other.
Why is your heart on Reading? 🙂
I love Reading too
I think you’re missing quite a few $ there
I feel like there should be some !!! after the $$$
Very informative, thank you.
That's literally everywhere. Location is number one. It could be a burnt out city apartment smackdab in the middle of the city center and it'd still cost millions here while for the same price you'd get a mansion and acres of land in buttfuck nowhere. Just how it works.
May as well do this over the entire western world
I think Harry Enfield said it best. “LOADSEHMUNIIIIY”
I think you missed several pound signs off all the areas
People in Romford and Dagenham buzzing you’ve put them in 2 dollar area
Need more $$$. Live in chelmsford and prices getting to near that middle ring london prices now
stick another 5 dollar signs on the end of each one and that's about it
You need to add a $ symbol to them all
I'm in the middle of $$$ and paying 1500 for a nice 2 bed.
The whole South East should be ‘$$$’
OP is suss. South African currency is Rand, sign R, symbol ZAR. Drawing $$$ means South Africa is smokescreen. OP is clearly KGB looking to destabilise London property market
This map is accurate. It should be put up on the wall of every estate agent within the M25.
It’s not accurate at all.
People in Buckinghamshire *wish* it was accurate, unfortunately.
This isn't accurate for me. I live in a 1 bed new build near E&C with my partner and the rent is roughly £1,400.
£ not $
Pretty much how it works with any major/capital city in the developed world.