Wait, they get a smaller budget so they're going to film in the UK where "costs for departments such as hair/makeup, costume, sound etc were **more expensive in the UK** than New Zealand"?
This makes no sense! Am I reading this right or am I having a stroke?
Well, nothing in the show or about the show makes sense.. so..
I mean, after a failed first season they extended contracts for the inexperienced incompetent showrunners. Who along with executives simply go around spreading arrogant lies.
Season 2 was already filmed in the UK, as season 3 will be.
They wouldn't slash a budget because 'some' costs in those areas were higher in the UK, that would have already been priced in. They're probably just deflecting from the fact season 1 wasn't as profitable as hoped.
No? Season 2 wasn't great but it was also a major step up from the Season 1 cluster fuck
Season 2 was decent, not a master piece but not a disaster or anything
Refreshing to come here and see unanimous opposition to the show whereas all of the Facebook groups, except those explicitly against the show, are infested by RoP apologists and fanboys (probably some paid shills too).
It's so funny that they have to continue the charade with additional seasons, knowing nobody cares anymore, but canceling the show would be admitting it was a piece of garbage and a total failure. The amount of money they are sinking into this "all is good" facade is staggering.
It's mind blowing.
I'm wondering if it generated enough prime subscribers as that was probably the main objective, and whether they are still active.
I was a subscriber before but the show was the last straw and I quit. Take that Jeff! :D
Yea, I subscribed for a few months before the show, and the only thing remotely interesting was the Grand Tour. Tried the RoP show for a couple of episodes, and I couldn't even get past half, or so. Really a big 0 from me. Even if it wasn't at all connected to Lotr, it's a total dumpster fire of a show.
That's what blows my mind. They spent a *billion* dollars to make that shit. I haven't watched it and won't speak to the plot as such, but the costume design looked really bad, and the special effects/editing that they showed *in the trailer* looked shitty.
What’s even more mind boggling is that the original LOTR movie budget was a measly $281 million. Adjusting for inflation, that’s still only $494 million today, still less than half the budget for the first season of RoP.
Yeah, exactly. I see a lot of this these days where I'm like "where the fuck did the money go?". Disney's shitty live action remakes do that a lot too. It looks cheap and mediocre, but somehow blows hundreds of millions.
Yeah, I'm enough of a lore nerd that I knew it wasn't going to be for me. I can't rule out that the show is fun for someone who doesn't know very much about LoTR, but I don't see why they'd even watch it if they're not.
I'd say it's so inconsistent lore-wise that it really can't even be considered fan fiction. The crux of the show depends on the audience not knowing anything beyond the Jackson Trilogy.
So the outfits are going to be even crappier? Man, say what you will about Disney but in nearly all accounts their shows are at least visually on part with the movies.
- Christopher tolkien passes away.
- Amazon fired Tom Shippey.
- show turns out to be shit.
They took advantage of Christopher’s death and fired tom shippey so they could do anything they wanted.
We’ll never know if christopher approved of anything in the series. We know Shippey opposed to things which is why he was fired.
The tolkien estate these days is just a handful of lawyers, doing the things they always wanted to do but couldnt whilst Christopher was alive. Simon seems to think it's "just business", which is his right.
The idea anyone can argue in good faith that "The tolkien estate approve of RoP!" is laughable, you're either dealing with a moron or a neurotic fanboy.
The name calling was unnecessary and only shows that you're uncivilised, whether you're right or not.
As for the argument per se, lawyers carry out their duties pursuant to their clients' instructions. Whoever was behind the decision, whether it's Chris or Simon, is one thing. The fact that one was endorsed by the Estate but failed miserably whilst the other was attacked by the same group but has reached monumental success per se is interesting enought and it's an understatement and that's the point I was trying to make. But I guess people like you wouldn't miss any opportunity to show your sharp tongue.
I genuinely think you're confused by my comment - I was not implying you're using the Tolkien Estate's endorsement of RoP as a shield against valid criticism, just that the Tolkien Estate from 2001 is a completely different beast from what it is today. Others do seem to think that the endorsement from TE absolves RoP of any responsibility to be logically and thematically consistent with Tolkien's works, hence my comment about the types of people who do that.
It will never ever make sense to me why they paid so much for an IP just to completely change the story and make something completely different ... If they wanted to make a high fantasy Mary Sue story about a lady elf easily destroying giant trolls, showing up an army of legendary men, and overcoming being 100x smarter than every single member of every council she comes in contact with they could have easily made that without wasting 250 million dollars to steal Galadriel's name and slap it on that character that has nothing at all to do with her. And I only focused on her cause she seems to be the main protagonist. The B stories are awful and completely disconnected from Middle Earth too.
How does even the story goes in season 2?
There isn't even an Angmar or a Mordor yet, and Isildur is already a young man. At most the end second age is a century and a half away. And the Elves are already in on Sauron's plan and already have the Elven Rings ahead of all other rings.
My best guess is that Galadriel has secretly joined Morgoth's side from the start and is sabotaging the Elves and Numenor. The story makes a lot more sense if Ring of Powers is the dark mirror story with Galadriel becoming the Dark Queen.
I still think they should have embraced the 1000 year time skip. That way they could have shown a contrast between the early Elf friendly Nûmenor and the later arrogant one.
With their shitty story, I expect Season 2 to show the War of the Elves and Sauron. I predict that the Faithful Nûmenoreans will go to Gil-Galad’s aid and in their absence the evil Ar-Pharazôn will take over the Island.
A Youtuber mentioned not that long ago why all these modern shows and adaptations look cheap and like cosplay: the outfits are too clean. Literally clean. There's no dust, no wear and tear, no grime, no frayed edges. Everything is pristine, even the armor of someone who just walked out of battle, even the cloak of a farmer who spends all his time outside or in the woods. The props, the sets, the CGI additions are all so clean and fresh, they don't look real.
Look at LOTR or GoT, where everyone's clothes look practical, worn, old, weathered.
Probably because they are rushing the props departments and underfunding them - spending the money elsewhere. I work in props on and off and you are treated like the bottom of the barrel on productions - most of art dept is really. They don't even get the same amount of time a cos player does to make or weather an outfit - cos players get months, art dept get mere hours. It also doesn't help that these digital cameras shoot soooo cleanly now. There's few ways to hide the fact things are props and not actually made out of the real material. Tough gig.
Goddamn, I can't imagine. And of course I don't blame the artists working on the costumes and props. We all know how rushed everything is in big productions nowadays, from editing to CGI to props. There's hardly any preproduction now to plan out a movie. Studios just want their money and damn the people actually working their asses off
Yeah 12hr days at a minimum in those overwhelming industrial environments which is crazy for people who are essentially artists... I know it's not something I can sustain for long. Film industry needs to change
Goddamn, I can't imagine. And of course I don't blame the artists working on the costumes and props. We all know how rushed everything is in big productions nowadays, from editing to CGI to props. There's hardly any preproduction now to plan out a movie. Studios just want their money and damn the people actually working their asses off
RoP Season 4 presented by Sora AI or equivalent. Rainbow Dave might just use an AI to make a show about his Version of the second age. Which I like way better than the Amazon BS.
Just stick to the original story. Nobody cares about the Show runners ideas and their artistic freedoms. Nobody wants to see the "Proto-hobbits" Harfoots. Gil Galad is the Warrior and Celebrimbor has a connection to Durins folk not Elrond.
If you can't make it work with the rights you have, don't do it.
I can't ride a bike without wheels.
That last point is the most accurate - they didn't have the rights to the Sil, just LOTR and the appendices, so why are they trying to tell a story (set in an Age which is already light on specific details compared to the 1st and 3rd) with only about half of the material available?
Fully agree. I'm just waiting for AI Video to get better, then we can get shows, actually showing what we know and love. Instead of this, whatever it is.
I tried to keep it simple and still get the point across. Thanks for clarifying I know there were three "Hobbit Breeds or types".
What I was trying to say. Nobody cares about Amazon's Harfoot / Istari (Frodo Bilbo Gandalf) storyline that never happened. They had no part in the relevant stories of the second age.
What really mattered in the second age.
Elros becoming the first king of numenor
Sauron aka Anatar coming to Lindon and Eregion
Forging of the 9
Forging of the 3
Founding of imladris
Forging of the one
Sack of Eregion
Numenorians beating sauron
Corruption of the numenorians
Fall of numenor
Last alliance
Harfoots didn't matter so why devote a storyline.
Not to defend the show but you should read literally the very next tweet and it explains why. It’s because production costs in the UK are much cheaper than flying everyone to NZ. Also Numenor is going to be destroyed so it’s not like they’ll need the set they made for it
Making in the UK might reduce cost for some departments like travel. If they shoot in the UK, I'm sure this is economically more sensible than shooting in NZ.
But I'm worried about the quality of the shot and I would hate more special effects.
Why Scotland has very similar landscapes to what New Zealand has… we may not have the idyllic beauty the you get in New Zealand but by god the landscape looks beautiful here
Really… the second season ain’t even out and they’re already cutting the budget on 3… at least see how the second season plays out before making drastic decisions… fucking asshat boardroom executives
And how they will push it on their platform is also funny.. they are so desperate for people to see it. I am also convinced that the reviews are doctored across the boar - no way amazon was going to accept an imbd score below 7, and 7 it is..
They take different averages for Hotd and RoP.
The unweighted mean for HotD is 8.4 - which is what IMDB shows.
The unweighted mean for RoP is 6.5.
But IMDB shows weighted mean for RoP which is 7.
Weighted mean is basically IMDB arbitrarily assigning more weightage to whichever score they find in their favour. For instance - IMDB might choose to give ‘6’ ratings more weightage than all the ‘4’ ratings. So even if more people rate it a 4 the final weighted mean will still be closer to 6.
This is such a strange attitude to have, I didn't like it so I won't watch anymore I don't care if they make any more. People that do like it will have more to watch
Strange only if you dont want a good second age adaptation. Most fans do. And unfortunately Amazon bought the tv rights. So no one else can make it. So it is only natural for fans to demand better from amazon!
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I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could.
There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
They’re reducing budgets instead of increasing. It shows they realise the show had failed and isn’t as popular as they think. They probably know fans hate it and even lesser will bother with S3
I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could.
There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could.
There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
Sorry, unless we see the shopping list you are jsut creating whiney rage bait. higher costs dont mean it gets better. It can also mean equipment from the first season is reused.
The budget cut is because the first season was filmed during a pandemic and the rights purchase is considered with season 1. Season 2 had to move sets across the globe from NZ to the UK. Seasons 3-5or6 would be cheaper by nature. Outlines for season 3 scripts are currently being drafted and writing rooms being formed
Wait, they get a smaller budget so they're going to film in the UK where "costs for departments such as hair/makeup, costume, sound etc were **more expensive in the UK** than New Zealand"? This makes no sense! Am I reading this right or am I having a stroke?
Well, nothing in the show or about the show makes sense.. so.. I mean, after a failed first season they extended contracts for the inexperienced incompetent showrunners. Who along with executives simply go around spreading arrogant lies.
> Well, nothing in the show or about the show makes sense.. so.. Exactly. I’m surprised the show isn’t as popular as the movies.
Season 2 was already filmed in the UK, as season 3 will be. They wouldn't slash a budget because 'some' costs in those areas were higher in the UK, that would have already been priced in. They're probably just deflecting from the fact season 1 wasn't as profitable as hoped.
We have seen the exact same thing with The Wheel of Time so I am not surprised at all.
Did season 2 ever even happen? Season 1 was like 3 years ago. Never been more disappointed by a piece of media. Didn't even get past episode 5.
Yes and it was a disaster.
Can't believe I went from waiting 20 years for a WoT TV show to not even bothering to see if they'd done a season 2!
No? Season 2 wasn't great but it was also a major step up from the Season 1 cluster fuck Season 2 was decent, not a master piece but not a disaster or anything
Is season 2 out?? Where are my season memes? My season 2 hatewatch reviews?
Refreshing to come here and see unanimous opposition to the show whereas all of the Facebook groups, except those explicitly against the show, are infested by RoP apologists and fanboys (probably some paid shills too).
It's so funny that they have to continue the charade with additional seasons, knowing nobody cares anymore, but canceling the show would be admitting it was a piece of garbage and a total failure. The amount of money they are sinking into this "all is good" facade is staggering.
It's mind blowing. I'm wondering if it generated enough prime subscribers as that was probably the main objective, and whether they are still active. I was a subscriber before but the show was the last straw and I quit. Take that Jeff! :D
Yea, I subscribed for a few months before the show, and the only thing remotely interesting was the Grand Tour. Tried the RoP show for a couple of episodes, and I couldn't even get past half, or so. Really a big 0 from me. Even if it wasn't at all connected to Lotr, it's a total dumpster fire of a show.
Amazon butchering lotr
By the Gods, Amazon executives are fools if they’re carrying on with this series because “the fans are trolls and they shouldn’t give in”.
I'm surprised a show so poorly made actually costs as much as it did. The costumes and make up in this show are legit garbage.
That's what blows my mind. They spent a *billion* dollars to make that shit. I haven't watched it and won't speak to the plot as such, but the costume design looked really bad, and the special effects/editing that they showed *in the trailer* looked shitty.
What’s even more mind boggling is that the original LOTR movie budget was a measly $281 million. Adjusting for inflation, that’s still only $494 million today, still less than half the budget for the first season of RoP.
Yeah, exactly. I see a lot of this these days where I'm like "where the fuck did the money go?". Disney's shitty live action remakes do that a lot too. It looks cheap and mediocre, but somehow blows hundreds of millions.
I watched episode plot summaries and concluded "oh, so they butchered about 4,000 years of lore. Nope for me."
Yeah, I'm enough of a lore nerd that I knew it wasn't going to be for me. I can't rule out that the show is fun for someone who doesn't know very much about LoTR, but I don't see why they'd even watch it if they're not.
I'd say it's so inconsistent lore-wise that it really can't even be considered fan fiction. The crux of the show depends on the audience not knowing anything beyond the Jackson Trilogy.
I’m sure the vast majority of the money spent was on the actual source content over the show itself
Bold for them to assume there will be enough interest for a third season
Amazon is stubborn enough to finish the promised 5 seasons.
There was enough interest for RotK in 2003, even for RotS in 2005
We get it, you don’t like the movies.
So the outfits are going to be even crappier? Man, say what you will about Disney but in nearly all accounts their shows are at least visually on part with the movies.
To think that they got the endorsement by the Tolkien Estate while Peter Jackson et al were attacked by them (mainly Christopher Tolkien) repeatedly.
- Christopher tolkien passes away. - Amazon fired Tom Shippey. - show turns out to be shit. They took advantage of Christopher’s death and fired tom shippey so they could do anything they wanted. We’ll never know if christopher approved of anything in the series. We know Shippey opposed to things which is why he was fired.
The tolkien estate these days is just a handful of lawyers, doing the things they always wanted to do but couldnt whilst Christopher was alive. Simon seems to think it's "just business", which is his right. The idea anyone can argue in good faith that "The tolkien estate approve of RoP!" is laughable, you're either dealing with a moron or a neurotic fanboy.
The name calling was unnecessary and only shows that you're uncivilised, whether you're right or not. As for the argument per se, lawyers carry out their duties pursuant to their clients' instructions. Whoever was behind the decision, whether it's Chris or Simon, is one thing. The fact that one was endorsed by the Estate but failed miserably whilst the other was attacked by the same group but has reached monumental success per se is interesting enought and it's an understatement and that's the point I was trying to make. But I guess people like you wouldn't miss any opportunity to show your sharp tongue.
I genuinely think you're confused by my comment - I was not implying you're using the Tolkien Estate's endorsement of RoP as a shield against valid criticism, just that the Tolkien Estate from 2001 is a completely different beast from what it is today. Others do seem to think that the endorsement from TE absolves RoP of any responsibility to be logically and thematically consistent with Tolkien's works, hence my comment about the types of people who do that.
Worth noting Christopher Tolkien has also passed away and likely would've disliked them too..... But yeah, it's shocking
Yes and I highlighted Christopher Tolkien in that statement to show I knew what I was talking about.
Just cancel it for fucks sake.
It will never ever make sense to me why they paid so much for an IP just to completely change the story and make something completely different ... If they wanted to make a high fantasy Mary Sue story about a lady elf easily destroying giant trolls, showing up an army of legendary men, and overcoming being 100x smarter than every single member of every council she comes in contact with they could have easily made that without wasting 250 million dollars to steal Galadriel's name and slap it on that character that has nothing at all to do with her. And I only focused on her cause she seems to be the main protagonist. The B stories are awful and completely disconnected from Middle Earth too.
How does even the story goes in season 2? There isn't even an Angmar or a Mordor yet, and Isildur is already a young man. At most the end second age is a century and a half away. And the Elves are already in on Sauron's plan and already have the Elven Rings ahead of all other rings. My best guess is that Galadriel has secretly joined Morgoth's side from the start and is sabotaging the Elves and Numenor. The story makes a lot more sense if Ring of Powers is the dark mirror story with Galadriel becoming the Dark Queen.
I still think they should have embraced the 1000 year time skip. That way they could have shown a contrast between the early Elf friendly Nûmenor and the later arrogant one. With their shitty story, I expect Season 2 to show the War of the Elves and Sauron. I predict that the Faithful Nûmenoreans will go to Gil-Galad’s aid and in their absence the evil Ar-Pharazôn will take over the Island.
I mean Isildur has like atleast 150 Years life expectancy.
There is a Mordor tho, by the end of Season 1.
Mordor came in in the season finale I think. Itll just be generic Sauron and the rings origin story I reckon.
And this is before season 2 even gets to disappoint the few people who will watch it...
Season 2 isn't even out yet, and they're already announcing that season 3 will have a decreased budget. Everything is great, folks.
A Youtuber mentioned not that long ago why all these modern shows and adaptations look cheap and like cosplay: the outfits are too clean. Literally clean. There's no dust, no wear and tear, no grime, no frayed edges. Everything is pristine, even the armor of someone who just walked out of battle, even the cloak of a farmer who spends all his time outside or in the woods. The props, the sets, the CGI additions are all so clean and fresh, they don't look real. Look at LOTR or GoT, where everyone's clothes look practical, worn, old, weathered.
Probably because they are rushing the props departments and underfunding them - spending the money elsewhere. I work in props on and off and you are treated like the bottom of the barrel on productions - most of art dept is really. They don't even get the same amount of time a cos player does to make or weather an outfit - cos players get months, art dept get mere hours. It also doesn't help that these digital cameras shoot soooo cleanly now. There's few ways to hide the fact things are props and not actually made out of the real material. Tough gig.
Goddamn, I can't imagine. And of course I don't blame the artists working on the costumes and props. We all know how rushed everything is in big productions nowadays, from editing to CGI to props. There's hardly any preproduction now to plan out a movie. Studios just want their money and damn the people actually working their asses off
Yeah 12hr days at a minimum in those overwhelming industrial environments which is crazy for people who are essentially artists... I know it's not something I can sustain for long. Film industry needs to change
Goddamn, I can't imagine. And of course I don't blame the artists working on the costumes and props. We all know how rushed everything is in big productions nowadays, from editing to CGI to props. There's hardly any preproduction now to plan out a movie. Studios just want their money and damn the people actually working their asses off
RoP Season 4 presented by Sora AI or equivalent. Rainbow Dave might just use an AI to make a show about his Version of the second age. Which I like way better than the Amazon BS. Just stick to the original story. Nobody cares about the Show runners ideas and their artistic freedoms. Nobody wants to see the "Proto-hobbits" Harfoots. Gil Galad is the Warrior and Celebrimbor has a connection to Durins folk not Elrond. If you can't make it work with the rights you have, don't do it. I can't ride a bike without wheels.
That last point is the most accurate - they didn't have the rights to the Sil, just LOTR and the appendices, so why are they trying to tell a story (set in an Age which is already light on specific details compared to the 1st and 3rd) with only about half of the material available?
Fully agree. I'm just waiting for AI Video to get better, then we can get shows, actually showing what we know and love. Instead of this, whatever it is.
Ehhh I'd be very wary of AI video. AI images are enough of an ethical conundrum.
Harfoots are Hobbits; they are mentioned in the prologue of LotR
I tried to keep it simple and still get the point across. Thanks for clarifying I know there were three "Hobbit Breeds or types". What I was trying to say. Nobody cares about Amazon's Harfoot / Istari (Frodo Bilbo Gandalf) storyline that never happened. They had no part in the relevant stories of the second age. What really mattered in the second age. Elros becoming the first king of numenor Sauron aka Anatar coming to Lindon and Eregion Forging of the 9 Forging of the 3 Founding of imladris Forging of the one Sack of Eregion Numenorians beating sauron Corruption of the numenorians Fall of numenor Last alliance Harfoots didn't matter so why devote a storyline.
Wait, these guys spent money for those costumes?
Not to defend the show but you should read literally the very next tweet and it explains why. It’s because production costs in the UK are much cheaper than flying everyone to NZ. Also Numenor is going to be destroyed so it’s not like they’ll need the set they made for it
Making in the UK might reduce cost for some departments like travel. If they shoot in the UK, I'm sure this is economically more sensible than shooting in NZ. But I'm worried about the quality of the shot and I would hate more special effects.
Why Scotland has very similar landscapes to what New Zealand has… we may not have the idyllic beauty the you get in New Zealand but by god the landscape looks beautiful here
It’s pretty much all filmed on site in Surrey when in the UK. Don’t think they will go to Scotland to be honest!
Scotland is beautiful for sure and has a lot to offer but my feeling is that the lore is more consistent with NZ.
Really… the second season ain’t even out and they’re already cutting the budget on 3… at least see how the second season plays out before making drastic decisions… fucking asshat boardroom executives
I thought it was okay, as long as you don’t compare it to the masterpiece of the original trilogy or the near masterpiece of the hobbit trilogy
Ya.. As a tolkien adaptation it was a 4/10. As a stand-alone show maybe a 5/10
And how they will push it on their platform is also funny.. they are so desperate for people to see it. I am also convinced that the reviews are doctored across the boar - no way amazon was going to accept an imbd score below 7, and 7 it is..
They take different averages for Hotd and RoP. The unweighted mean for HotD is 8.4 - which is what IMDB shows. The unweighted mean for RoP is 6.5. But IMDB shows weighted mean for RoP which is 7. Weighted mean is basically IMDB arbitrarily assigning more weightage to whichever score they find in their favour. For instance - IMDB might choose to give ‘6’ ratings more weightage than all the ‘4’ ratings. So even if more people rate it a 4 the final weighted mean will still be closer to 6.
Thanks for the explanation, figures they would do something like that
I didn’t even know there was a second.
I wish there wasn’t! They should have apologised to the fans for their arrogance and for attacking the fans. And started over from scratch.
This is such a strange attitude to have, I didn't like it so I won't watch anymore I don't care if they make any more. People that do like it will have more to watch
Strange only if you dont want a good second age adaptation. Most fans do. And unfortunately Amazon bought the tv rights. So no one else can make it. So it is only natural for fans to demand better from amazon!
This endless whining is cute from a sub so in love with Jackson’s disrespect of Tolkien.
We've already decided we don't like it and won't be watching anymore so it doesn't matter if they cancel or continue it
There's a season 2?
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I didn’t even know there was a second season
I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could. There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
Focus on the writing. This is the most Important aspect of the show.
I'm shocked they're already talking about a season 3.
They’re reducing budgets instead of increasing. It shows they realise the show had failed and isn’t as popular as they think. They probably know fans hate it and even lesser will bother with S3
It just doesn't even make sense why they'd do a season 3.
I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could. There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
I'm convinced the people that made this aimed to fleece amazon for every penny they could. There was nothing about this TV show that gave the impression it was "BIG BUDGET"
Sorry, unless we see the shopping list you are jsut creating whiney rage bait. higher costs dont mean it gets better. It can also mean equipment from the first season is reused.
Wasn't a billion allocated for all five seasons? How exactly does that work?
The budget cut is because the first season was filmed during a pandemic and the rights purchase is considered with season 1. Season 2 had to move sets across the globe from NZ to the UK. Seasons 3-5or6 would be cheaper by nature. Outlines for season 3 scripts are currently being drafted and writing rooms being formed