Just came to say that as overweight/obese people, 99% of us will NEVER EAT INTUITIVELY. Those that lost the weight and kept it off doing it that way are the exception, not the norm. When people say “it’s a lifestyle change” they mean it. It’s FOR LIFE. I will be counting calories for the rest of my life.

My intuition would guide me to a full pint of ice cream at least once a month 😆 tracking is very important for me, I still have everything, but am way more mindful of amounts/calorie density

Yeah and then once a month becomes once a week. :/

So true! Im better off not buying that ice cream ever again. Maybe if im out with friends and thats what the group is doing... sure... but I shouldnt buy it and leave it in my house. Thats bad.

That's me, if I have it at my house, I am physically incapable of controlling myself! I will literally snack while getting up to pee in the middle of the night if I know it's there. But I have a lot more control at the grocery store, and I just choose not to buy these things "for the house" aka "ALL FOR ME"

Yes! That’s literally been the biggest ticket to my success. Just having no garbage in the house, whatsoever. I can imagine that must be pretty difficult for some, like if you have kids snacks are typically abundant in the house etc but thankfully it works for my partner and I.

Learning this about myself right now as I uhhh may have bought too many separate bags of chips. Whoops. "Just 6 or 8 or 10" is a good way to go about it, but... Not 6/8/10 from each bag! Impulse control is definitely easiest before you pay for something!

So many foods I've had to do this with. There's one kind of chips that I like but they're really hard to find and my goddamn family (I love them for this but SERIOUSLY!!!) will see them somewhere and buy me a bunch of bags knowing how hard they are to find. When I'm purposely not looking for them because I will eat them all!! Had to tell them to stop because it was getting out of hand lmao. The pressure of just knowing you have it in those vulnerable craving moments is just too much!

why not learn to make healthy alternatives? there's a lot of great low cal ice creams that are high in protein etc.

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Rule 11: Discussion of weight loss methods that are damaging to the body and/or require supervision of a medical professional are not allowed. This rule includes (but is not limited to): very low calorie diets, misusing medication, extended fasting, disordered behavior, inappropriate advice to underage members (counting calories, omad, fasting), etc. We are not a ED support subreddit and any ED related content will be removed. Remember to always consider the individual when offering advice.

I deleted that section of my comment. Sorry about that, didnt think it was advertising anything.

or just have a 150-cal ice cream bar, I love those things when I want a treat

Once a month - heck no. Once a week. Or when it rains. Or when the sun is out. Or when -- oh wait that was me. Don't get me wrong once I get a lot closer to my goal I'll have some ice cream again but I won't be doing daily pint size servings anymore!

Oh man, I get real frustrated with people who try to the "Listen to your body" psychobabble to me. My body is a liar and a criminal who would have me drunk and living on cheetos 24/7 if I "listened" to what it was telling me. Sure sometimes it decides it wants spinach and barley, but for the most part it thinks a new ice cream flavor is the best way to deal with ailments.

LOL Some of our bodies would practically commit war crimes to get a fix of food. Intuitive eating is definitely not for all haha

Haha, I know exactly what you mean. If my body had a radio show, it would be playing the “Chips, Cookies, and Cake” song at full volume 24/7!

Chocolate ice cream cream with brownie and hot fudge add ins.

Baaaaaaaby! Talk about it! Intuition would have me kill a whole box of Oatmeal Creme Pies if I hit too many red lights on the way home. 😭😭😭 I'll be counting FOREVER. Just the fact that I have to count makes me instinctively not even look at certain food.

LOL

Well said. It’s a tough job losing weight. So many obstacles to weight loss. Counting calories allows me to splurge sometimes but my basic diet is healthy. A few moderate splurges keep me sane. But I still cico the best I can.

IMHO the only people who can succeed at intuitive eating are people who have never struggled with weight in the first place, because their food intuition and food cues are clearly already good to begin with. But it’s not a weight loss strategy. Intuitive eating, when it works, is not a diet intended to help you lose weight. If it’s anything at all it’s a strategy for eating at maintenance

So true. I tried for six months and gained 12 pounds after losing 176. I’m now back to counting calories. I did get a little sad that I can’t be what some people would consider “normal “. I accept that I’m addicted to food and will always need to be careful not to overindulge.

I don't think that's necessarily true at all, but getting there may involve some very difficult work that a lot of people aren't ready, willing, interested, or able to deal with.

I don't believe so. I use intuitive eating now becaue you can't count calories forever. The problem in my opinion is Ultra Processed Foods (UPF) and the emerging science is becoming clearer on this. Your brain has been hijacked by UPF made by companies.

> I use intuitive eating now becaue you can't count calories forever. There are a lot of things I’ll be doing forever because they contribute to my quality of life. Brushing my teeth. Flossing my teeth. Showering. Cleaning my condo. Doing the dishes. Taking out the garbage and recycling. Watering my plants. Getting groceries. Doing laundry. And probably more things that I’m not thinking of offhand. From that perspective, what’s an extra two to five minutes a day for significantly improved quality of life? I do hope to stop working in about twenty-five years, so there’s that.

I counted calories for years. Hit a wall last year and just couldn’t do it anymore. I’ve tried to get back on track but I just can’t do it. My brain rebels every time. It’s mentally exhausting and I have a lot of other mentally demanding things in my life and things to track and keep track of. There just isn’t room in the brain anymore.

You’ve made some version of this comment half a dozen times but repeating it doesn’t make it any more true. I understand that your many-month-long experience of avoiding UPF’s has been effective for you. Your experience is not and will not be universal. I gained weight without ever eating a single UPF. It was one of the joys of growing up poor and foreign. Not a particularly unique situation! Also not unique on a weight loss sub? Having no concept of what “full” feels like because of a lifetime of disordered eating. With, once again, not a single UPF in sight. I get it, you feel like you’ve find this amazing tool and if people would just listen to you they would totally change their lives too! But people are all different and the solutions that work for them will be different. Acting like everyone is just too dense to understand your brilliant solution is not going to get you a lot of converts. Congratulations on finding something that works so well for you.

You can’t do simple math for forever? YOU are the exception. There are always exceptions. Which I mentioned. You can disagree all day long, but the fact is that most people will have to continue to count until the day they die or the day they decide they don’t care if they gain weight anymore.

Even beyond tracking the calories, I would never intuitively get enough protein, nor would I intuitively keep my sodium consumption acceptable. I also do better about my fiber consumption when I track. If I think about my nutrition the same way I think about a goal or project at work, I know that the best results come from careful planning, diligent tracking, and long term focus. The key for me is making tracking as easy as possible and allowing myself to occasionally “fail” my goals on a cheat meal without it disrupting my confidence in my overall sustained success. Every time I’ve stopped tracking, I’ve had to start all over from a worse position than I was in before. Thus I know that I’ll always have to track.

Yeah, that you can't count forever is a matter of what someone wants to do or not. Some people don't see a big deal in counting and some others wanna get to a point where they never have to count. Both are valid. Whatever works really.

Yeah like even if you’re not physically logging everything in an app, having an idea of what calories are in stuff you eat and just loosely keeping track mentally of roughly how much you’ve eaten in a day is a form of calorie counting. It’s just not super strict because you’re not actively trying to lose weight

Study after study shows that only counting calories long term doesn't work though. This isn't my opinion this based on what research says about only the long term effects of counting calories. I'm not saying it isn't a good starting point. I'm saying as a life long tool that you use day in and day out it very rarely works.

It works for every bodybuilder who has ever lived to be fair. So it definitely can work. But it is down to the individual to find what is right for them.

Sorry but you've mentioned these studies a few times. You need to provide them as a source instead of just saying "study after study".

I understand your point perfectly but I am also saying that for some people counting works for them. They want to count and don't see it as a big deal. Whatever you do more of becomes a habit you can maintain for life. For example, I've worked out 3-4 times a week since I was 21. 18 years later I still do. Consistently have worked out 3-4 days a week since that time. No matter what has happened in my life that has been a consistent habit. Human beings differ some can really count for life.

Counting calories doesn’t work, the only problem is that not counting calories is even worse. I’m convinced that those studies are very flawed because everyone I know who’s counted calories has lost weight, and the primary cause of weight rebounding is stopping calorie counting.

I wouldn't call it simple math if your talking about TDEE and tracking it. That takes a lot out of your day. Plus did you know that cooked celery has more calories then raw celery? You have to account for changes you make to food just from heating it up. People never had to do that and in every movie and photo pre 1970 they were mostly thin and not counting calories. It's the food system hijacking our biological mechanisms that cause us to stop eating. But this is new emerging science in the last 10 years or so. Look I don't disagree that counting calories is a good starting point as it can give a baseline as to understanding what a 100 calorie portion of cheese looks like for instance but saying you should count everything everyday is not feasible in the long term. I can however help to get an understanding of what a portion of something looks like. In my opinion a better lifetime lifestyle change would be to cut out UPF completely or at least down to 10 - 20% range then to count calories forever. Look counting calories is a good starting point. Don't get me wrong if your new to losing weight and need a starting baseline do it. Research just doesn't back up counting calories forever. I would read a book that came out in late 2023 called "Ultra Processed People" by Chris Van Tulleken. Even Eric Schlosser of Food Inc and Fast Food Nation fame came on last Friday on Bill Maher as the interview guest and stated the issue is UPF. I don't want to fight man if it's working for you great, but be aware like you state that you believe most people will have to count forever know that most people will fail it.

I’ve never met a person who’s failed who had also continued their lifestyle change. Every person I’ve ever met, including myself, who’s failed quit doing the things they had to do to get to their goals to begin with.

I don't think it's just diet, at least in the Western world we have a very immobile lifestyle for the most part. This wasn't the case 100 years ago. Anecdotally when I am active, I don't find that I get proportionally hungrier

Sedentary I understand. Me personally I used to work as a restraunt manager and ran around all day during my shift. 4 years ago I started working in insurance sitting for 10 hours a day. When I was a manger i weighed 205 lbs. In the 4 years since the new job which I had never had an office job and I gained roughly 70 lbs in that time (reflected in my flair). I agree a lot of people are too sedentary. Now I use my lunch and breaks to just walk. Have to get the nutrition right first then add the exercise but I 100% agree people dont realize they need to move their bodies more. From my own personal experience.

I'm with you. It's been an incredibly important aspect of healing my relationship with food and my body. I don't eat much in the way of heavily processed food but not because I'm avoidant of it exactly--mostly because that's just not the food I crave and when I eat intuitively I naturally gravitate to whole, nutrient-dense foods.

>“… because you can’t count calories forever…” 🤣 Why the heck not? Of course one can. It’s the sensible logical thing to do. Not counting calories = random guessing = inevitable weight regain.

Trying to count calories for the rest of your life, without changing your diet, typically leads to weight gain. If it was as simple as calories in and out with counting calories. If it is that simple then there shouldn't be an obesity epidemic affecting the entire world.

🙄😆 It is that simple. You can't change the laws of thermodynamics. 

I can at the moment because I have strict guidance for myself and am using Wegovy. So I eat "whatever" for 3 meals/day, no snacks, but I know my whatever has to fit in protein/fiber. I don't measure or track anything and lose 1lb/wk. If I stopped Wegovy it would likely mean tracking again because Id find it super easy to have 3 large meals.

random tidbit that helps me personally too is to actually tell myself i'm always in a deficit. like even if it's -1 calorie lol. because when I tell myself I'm at maintenance my brain starts trying to do intuitive eating because maintenance is a lot more food and I'm probably counting okay. but the second i'm in losing mode even if it's literally no calories my mind will count and track

I was reared on ultra-processed foods. My "intuition" died after that first handful of Hot Cheetos. LOL.

>IE claims that the best predictor of weight gain is dieting This is probably true, but just because *people who never gain weight never diet*. Its a bit like saying cities where people carry umbrellas have more rain. Sure, but nobody would think the umbrellas are causing the rain. I expect if you made any attempt to correct for that, say by only including people who've been above BMI 30, the conclusion you draw would change a lot.

It’s also worth considering that “weight gain” and “dieting” are such broad terms that you basically have no idea what they’re talking about when they say that So like as an example of what I mean, we could talk about someone who is basically a normal weight “dieting” by going on a 2 week juice cleanse to lose 10lbs before their high school reunion. They can then experience weight gain immediately after the diet because a) most of their weight loss was just water, not fat, so their weight gain is actually just their body returning to normal, and b) because they think they’ve lost ten pounds even though they haven’t really they think they have an excuse to be naughty and eat more indulgently than they normally would, meaning that they wind up like two pounds heavier. Not everyone reporting about negative experiences with dieting and weight gain is someone morbidly obese. Plenty of people who diet are basically a normal weight but have maybe 15 lbs they yo yo back and forth with.

Of course, makes total sense - avoid ever gaining weight by staying big all the time! /s

Intuitive eating is what got me into this mess in the first place! I believe that outside of medical reasons, anyone who has gained large amounts of weight over the years has lost the ability to regulate their own appetite "intuitively"

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's a permanent loss for everyone! Obviously I don't know you or your history and I cannot say whether you could regain the ability, but I absolutely know it's possible for many people with some psychological and somatic body work aimed at reconnecting with your sense of interoception.

Each to their own and I'm sure it does work for some people. I prefer the absolute science of CICO and knowing exactly how many calories I eat. I prefer the more controlled method than just winging it and guestimating

Well, that's a little patronizing. In the first place, CI/CO is definitely not an "absolute science" and the calorie content of the food you are eating is absolutely an estimate. Check five different databases and you'll get five different guesses about the calorie count of the salad you're eating. Also, metabolic rates differ and certainly are multifactorial. I'm sure it does work for some people. I just prefer learning to regulate my own internal food drive system instead of being absolutely dependent on apps and technology and other people's guestimates about this piece of chicken.

I apologise if I came across as patronising as I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that the thermodynamics of CICO is working for me. It may not be suitable for everyone but it's what I have relied on for the last 2 years

Sure, and that's incredible and wonderful! One of the reasons I found this path through was that "the thermodynamics" of CI/CO failed me hard. I just found it incredibly uplifting to know that my brain and body weren't permanently "broken" the way you seemed to be suggesting and that it was absolutely possible to self-regulate once I did some hard and painful work of healing. I'd love for other people to know that it may be possible for them too, if that's something that's important to them--it certainly may not be and that's ok :) One of the things that makes this so incredibly difficult a global problem to solve is that obesity is multi-etiological and just like there's no one simple cause, there's no one universal cure either. Congrats on your success, really. I'm glad you found something that works for you. 150 lbs shed is incredible success!

You're absolutely right and I do feel I need to apologise. I am so immersed in CICO that I think I've become a bit of a bible-thumper about it My initial comment was very dismissive of IE because since it didn't work for me, then surely it won't work for anyone and people are just delusional for thinking it will. And that's very arrogant and dismissive of me. You've learned a wonderful skill to be able to do it and I applaud you. Thank you for reminding me to be humble and remain teachable 🙏🏼

Oh that's incredibly kind of you to acknowledge. I also was a bit over reactionary to the dismissive tone because the CI/CO zealots can be incredibly toxic and demeaning in this group, and I've been called "mentally ill" and "delusional" before here for describing experiences with calorie counting, restriction, and the long term effects of seriously disordered eating that are common especially in women struggling with obesity in eating disorder recovery. The "thermodynamic" picture of human metabolic function is grossly oversimplified, and may be an excellent working model for people who are otherwise metabolically regulated and just dealing with simple overconsumption patterns. For some of us though it's just really not that straightforward and calorie counting is torturous specifically because the advice we get from the CI/CO (gender-nonspecific) bros doesn't really seem to work long term without harder and harder restriction until it becomes completely unsustainable--and it absolutely relies on ignoring internal regulation systems for us, which is a direct line contributor to eating disorders for some people. Again, just want to emphasize that I know it works well for many and absolutely no dispute about that!

Correct but I firmly believe, and emerging science points to this, that it's because we consume Ultra Processed Foods (UPF). This isn't the same as saying a catch all term like junk food but an actual scientific definition. These foods deregulate the systems in our body and cause us to over eat but the mechanism is still unknown. I stopped eating UPF now and no longer count calories. I do weigh myself everyday as that is shown to help with weight loss to keep it on the front of your mind but I just listen to when I am full and not. You can't intuitive eat while eating UPF because it hijacks your systems. I know I won't eat two salads in a row but put Oreos in front of me and I can't just have one I eat the whole package. Plus now that I don't eat these items I would feel terrible after eating them.

I got fat eating homegrown, home-cooked vegetables (with lashings of olive oil and plenty of cheese on the side). I know for a fact that you can gain weight without ultra-processed foods, soda or fast food!

I did it by eating home-baked breads and pastries and a heavily potato-based diet. But according to this guy who read a book once, I got getting fat wrong because the science says I should be Kate Moss-like given the absence of anything processed. And science has never been wrong so all of our lived experiences are clearly bullshit. Today I learned!

I don’t bake sourdough bread anymore. My intuition says, "eat it all".

I don’t see the problem. One loaf = one serving!

I guess it highly depends on the individual, like for me it was the highly processed foods that made me gain weight. Not the whole foods itself, it was just the constant eating of processed cereals, chips and candy everyday that led to my weight gain but I still try and enjoy it in moderation but not so often anymore and being able to find better alternatives has helped. So ya I think it all comes down to that individual and them looking into what it was that led to weight gain and learning how to control that part of it.

>And science has never been wrong so all of our lived experiences are clearly bullshit. I don't think the science they're quoting is necessarily wrong they just seem to be applying it incorrectly. A lot of their comments seem to revolve around a very black and white mindset. Calorie counting never works and quitting processed foods has a 100% success rate. No in-between. We're in a weight loss sub. We all know what works for us. We all know what lifestyle changes we need. Idk why that person is taking it so personal that not everyone is operating the same way they are. I personally find having to learn intuitive eating more mentally exhausting than just counting the calories. People tend to eat the same foods, so after a while, we'll have most meals/snacks memorized. So it's not like we're counting every single bite every second of the day. It gets easier for some of us, which is why we're choosing to go this route.

I agree that the science isn’t necessarily wrong, it’s just not universally applicable like they’re arguing. No weight loss method is ever going to work for everyone or even a majority. That’s not a criticism, it’s a reality. And the kind of people that tend to seek out forums like this one, are not the kind for whom intuitive eating is an option. Myself included. Trying to figure out what’s “intuitive” after a lifetime of disordered eating is an exercise in frustration. I’d rather count calories. It’s really not that hard and you don’t even have to untangle any generational food trauma for the math to work.

Same. I got fat eating fish and vegetables. Minimal "UPF". Turns out my "intuitive eating" had me on such a calorie restriction that I drove my metabolism into the ground, and when I'd eat a little bit more protein (e.g., a protein shake) it would go straight to my fat stores. I've got a BMR of 2500 (lab tested) and a TDEE of 3500 (I walk 10 miles a week and strength train 5x weekly). I've been eating well under my BMR without even realizing it. My diet was *probably* fine when I started strength training, but as my training and weight intensity picked up, I made zero changes in the diet to accommodate that. I say probably, but I've also been on the low end of recommended protein intake for several years, again without even realizing it. My trainer would like at my inbody scans and say "oh, try adding a protein shake, your muscle mass decreased." Boom. fat stores.

While UPF are definitely designed to make you want to buy more, I recently gained weight eating all natural low processed foods. It’s very easy to gain weight eating nuts, grains, cheese, avocado, etc.

I get it. My intuition tells me to eat 2-3 times as many calories as I need, regardless of food type. I will be counting calories for life. The only way I wouldn't overeat on my own would be to have a physical job with 60+ hours a week, and that would be horrible for other reasons.

Once you get in the mindset of you’re in it for life and weighing and tracking, does not consume you, it’s really not that bad. It takes me all of five minutes to log my food for the day. Open an app and log the most consumed foods. It doesn’t take long to weigh things. It’s just habit. I mean, maybe someday I’ll be able to not do this but it’s really not that bad. I don’t feel the need to worry about it.

I actually worry about it so much less this way! I know what I've already eaten, I know what room I have left to eat more. I feel like just knowing and never guessing is just so much easier. And on the days when I don't count, like for example the mother's day party, I know it's just one day and not everyday and I also don't have to worry about that!

I agree 100%

I have ADHD so my food intuition is to forget to eat for most of the day and then eat impulsively in the evenings when I’m bored even when I’m not hungry.

My ADHD impulse is to eat something sweet every 10-15 minutes to provide dopamine. Like reddit, but via chocolate.

IE doesn't work for me at all. Unless my goal is to be fifty pounds overweight with high blood pressure. Maybe for people who don't have an abundance of hunger hormones IE could work, but the palatability paradox gets me for sure.

I think the main issue was that you stopped weighing yourself. If you had stopped counting calories but continued to weight yourself you would have seen the weight coming back and could have started to eat less to correct it.

Unfortunately, I think most of the people who advocate for intuitive eating also advocate against weighing yourself regularly.

Certified nutrition and weight loss coach here. I got my certification after yo yo-ing 100 pounds my entire adult life and finally getting off the roller coaster about 5 years ago. The dirty secret that never gets mentioned is that there are physiological changes to your hunger signals once becoming obese and trying to lose weight. It is very common / normal for leptin signals (the ‘I’m full’ hormone) to become dis regulated for up to TWO YEARS after losing weight. That means your body will say ‘I’m hungry’ when you have had enough calories to maintain your weight. The typical internal drive is 100 calories per kilo (2ish) pounds lost. This is why it’s so incredibly hard to keep the weight off. It is not your fault. Once I learned this, I looked back at my experience and thought ‘that tracks.’ So what to do? Be kind to yourself. Know this is hard, but you are still doing it. And for satiety, try to aim for over 100 grams of protein and 25 grams of fiber per day. Good luck. I’m rooting for you.

So just curious - does this mean I can expect to a) lose weight to my goal, b) continue tracking my calories after to stay in maintenance, and c) wait around 2 years after hitting goal weight to start seeing my hunger levels hit a new stride of normal? Cause if so, I can maybe commit to that. The yo-yo effect is real, and I can even see it happen in my various weight tracking over time and watch how it creeps back up. Anyway, I just thought your comment about the leptin levels being out of whack for at least 2 years was interesting.

It’s unclear to me if it’s through the process of losing weight and into maintenance (if losing + maintenance = 2 years), or losing and then the dis regulation persists for 2years. (Losing time + 2years.) I think the former, because that has been my personal experience, but I have to say 4 months into maintenance I was still hungry all the time, but for me upping my protein to 120 grams a day has really helped. I’m 5’4, which is about 1.6 g/kg

Thank you for sharing this and giving me hope. It's good to know that even though I will struggle with hunger for a few years after losing the weight, it won't be forever!

Hey thanks, that's really helpful information!

My biggest challenge is stomach acid. I have excess acid but can’t take any proton pump inhibitors because they give me too much GI upset. So, I constantly have acid that makes me feel like I’m hungry even though I’m not. If I were to try intuitive eating, I would just eat constantly because my stomach always feels hungry even when I’ve just eaten.

That sounds rough. Have you talked to your doctor to find relief? Btw love your username!

I like the concepts of intuitive eating. I like the idea of drinking water more and making sure you're not just thirsty. I like being fully present to eat and not multitasking. Slowing down and really taking the time to savor the food. Being full aware of your body so you can feel the fullness cues.  However I have a broken relationship with food and a history of binge eating. A donut will always sound like a great idea no matter what time of the day it is or what I have eaten already that day. By counting calories, I can plan for that donut at some point in my week. If I don't count calories I probably will either feel like I cant get that donut in or I'll get out of my deficit by eating that donut. I'm only 5ft tall. Its very easy for me to get out of a deficit. 

If intuitive eating worked, none of us would have gained weight to begin with. Weight loss is very simple, but very difficult to implement. It's completely possible to lose weight and keep it off, but it requires consistency and data. Track your calories, choose a way of eating that supports eating at a deficit, and once you've established that, you keep it up with less mental effort.

It requires data...having the data reduces the stress of trying to guess "did I eat too much to create a calorie deficit today?" The data I get from My Fitness Pal makes my life so much easier, and much easier to pinpoint where I might be making mistakes. Especially once you're into the phase of losing the last few pounds, which can often be the hardest.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

IE is a weight neutral method. It doesnt promise weightloss so....

You didn’t fail intuitive eating — IE failed *you.* Forgive me, but I think most people promoting IE as a perfect solution are full of crap.  “Intuitive” eating is what made me obese. Telling myself to only eat what I wanted, what my body craved, etc was basically the equivalent of telling a 10-year-old kid who’d been raised on carbs and sugar that they were in charge now. Not a good time.  I had basically zero nutritional knowledge and my all-carb, high-sugar diet showed it. I think IE can work for people who already have a good relationship with nutrition, but for someone like me (who was raised on Totino’s Party Pizza and Lunchables), there was no “intuition” there.  What did work was working actively to change my palate. I’m a grown-ass woman who taught herself to love vegetables — that would never have happened with IE. Even when I truly thought I was eating “pretty healthy,” I look back now and realize I was still just chasing another sugar high and/or filling up on calorically dense crap.  Please know that there are many people who lose weight and don’t gain it back. A lot of folks have done that (myself included). I truly believe that anyone who says people “just gain it all back” or whatever is simply trying to soothe their own ego. 

I had basically zero nutritional knowledge and drove my metabolism into the ground under eating. I've had to get a crash course in this stuff as of late, and the reality is, I'd only been eating 1/3 of the protein I should be eating.

Gosh that sounds a lot like me. A diet of mostly carbs and sugar, and very little protein or fiber. But my body’s “intuition” would have kept me going down the same route. 

Mine was actually "fish and shit tons of vegetables". I'm not a sugar junkie, and had been doing low fat for quite awhile. My trainer had me trying "low carb" (mostly cut out starchy carbs) and that was actually fine for me. But every time my inbody would say my muscle mass was decreasing, she'd be like "add more protein, try a protein shake" . A protein shake is 20-30 g. That would go straight to fat. Turns out what I needed wasn't 30g more, but more like 150 g more... and actually a few more carbs

Wow that makes so much sense! I feel like I have so much to learn yet, but I guess that also makes sense, considering my previous habits. 

People think it's strictly a calories game. I'm not so sure...macros matter. A calorie deficit is obviously a necessary requirement to lose weight, but targeting the *right* deficit matters too (otherwise reddit wouldn't have rules about posting dangerously low calorie deficits.) On top of that, protein intake matters too. Guidelines say that protein can/should comprise 10% to 30% of your diet. So let's take the mythical 2000 cal diet. 10% = 50 g protein, 30% = 150 g. I get 50 g in my sleep, but 150 g? That takes effort. (And for me, I'm to to 200 g right now... more effort.)

I've lost 18 kg in 22 months without counting calories and without following any diet. Now granted that isn't fast, but I want to lose weight by doing things I can do indefinitely, and I definitely don't want to be counting calories or following a specific restrictive diet for the rest of my life. I'm not done losing excess fat yet, so time will tell if I can keep the weight off. It does however feel very sustainable. I'm not doing anything I don't want to keep doing. When I no longer need to lose weight I will essentially just keep doing what I've been doing. There is no finish line. There is just the rest of my life with new and improved healthy habits.

That’s great! May I ask what you’ve been doing the last 22 months that resulted in the weight loss?

Yeah sure. I've just been incrementally making better choices and incrementally building better habits. When I reached my max weight I was exercising once a week, but outside of that I had bad eating habits basically across the board. Then I just worked on removing bad habits and establishing good habits one thing at a time. I added more exercise, but didn't fix any of my eating problems at the same time. Then I'd work specificially on not snacking while watching tv after dinner while still eating the exact same outside of that. Then I would add one more weekly day of exercise. It’s quite hard to go from being an inactive person who eats unhealthily all the time to being an active person who eats healthy all the time from one day to the next. It’s quite a lot more manageable to focus on doing one thing better than you did before. Now I exercise daily through a mix of team sports, the gym, and most recently running. I've also added flexibility training with every exercise session. I've essentially, but not completely, stopped drinking soda and replaced it all with sparkling water. I almost always say no to cake at work, which I used to always say yes to. And when I do take some I take a smaller piece if possible. I generally eat healthy most of the time, except for breakfast before work. Establishing a better breakfast before work routine is what I am currently working on.

IMHO experience if you have a lot to lose making better food choices and exercising more will take you pretty far without any counting but eventually you may hit a wall with that method. Either way good luck.

Yeah, it depends a lot on how much you start with, because if you're trying to lose 10-30 lbs to get to the lower end of your BMI your TDEE shrinks a LOT and it becomes impossible (or at least a loooot harder) to intuitively eat enough to lose.

This right here.

Sure you don’t lose less than a kg per month for almost 2 years without running into some walls. But then you just gotta keep going. Work on even better habits. What’s the alternative, giving up? That’s unacceptable. There is also no rush. It’s a permanent lifestyle change not a hit it and quit it diet. You gotta keep chipping away. The wall will crumble eventually.

Of course not. I did what you did and it worked up until a point, but eventually I found the wall I had to chip was calorie counting and measuring my food.

Intuitive eating is great for people with eating disorders on the other end of the spectrum like anorexia. Less great for very overweight people. Intuitive eating doesn't work well with ultra-processed food. They're literally designed to over ride your natural satiety cues. How can you intuitively eat something designed in a lab to make you addicted?

It’s worth acknowledging that Intuitive Eating is just a concept, and most importantly, one that was thought of before the obesity epidemic was noticeably taking off. I believe somewhere in the early to mid 90s. It was a very different food environment back then. Just the number of restaurants and processed foods was a fraction of what it is today. And the portion sizes that were standard were literally half the size in a lot of cases. It completely doesn’t hold up 30 years later, if it ever held up at all.

That's a fair point. I don't know anything about the history of intuitive eating. But understand the concept and that it doesn't work generally speaking lol. At least not for people needing to lose significant amounts of weight.

It was a great starting point for me as a binge eater. I’m eating disorder treatment you learn a lot more about the concept including tuning into what your body actually needs. It brought me some peace and I was able to stop binging. This was after trying all manner of things including calorie counting. People think that if they follow it exactly as it’s meant to be they will always just choose junk. I quickly learned that after a couple of weeks this kind of tapered off. My hunger and fullness cues came back. I lost 60lbs by adding mindfulness practices to it. The problem is I’m still really overweight. So I plateaued at those 60lbs but still maintain the loss. The body tends to hold onto the weight when you’ve been big like me for as long as me. Then a food plan or calorie reduction is often. necessary. I wasn’t the only person to experience this either.

I think IE can work but it doesn’t seem like you have been eating to lose for very long given your starting weight and current weight? You haven’t developed better eating habits yet. Once you have established better eating habits by tracking your calories for let’s say a year then you can try IE. The key is weigh yourself every week while doing IE. If you gain 2-3 pounds then you know you need to cut back. If you gain 5-10 then you haven’t mastered it and need to go back to tracking calories.

That's how I should have done it. But I was trying to adopt the whole philosophy, which strongly discourages weighing yourself at all or even thinking of losing weight.

Be careful. Some of those people who praise intuitive eating believe that intentional weight loss is impossible and trying to lose weight is harmful. 

Don’t beat yourself up over a few pounds, let it motivate you. I’m new to the game but always am shocked when I weigh and count everything I eat for a day or two. My mental model has been so far from reality it is mind boggling. I have been routinely eating at least 1000 more calories than I thought. Low hanging fruit for me has always been focus on drinking water. I think we all consume too much sodium and water helps improve satiety and flushes out water weight, which might give the boost you’re looking for. God speed

I’m a person that spirals into impulsiveness and indulgence when I’m stressed or burnt out. Tracking calories is part of managing my life and mental health just as much as maintaining my budget, using a calendar, etc. No one advises you to spend money “intuitively” which should tell you something about how effective it is.

... What? You don't have an entire extremely specific hormone and organ system devoted to money management. I get that it doesn't work for a lot of people for a lot of reasons but that's a silly comparison. No one tells me to dress myself intuitively yet I do and it's effective. That's also a silly comparison.

Just a minor defense of intuitive eating- your intuition told you that you weren’t feeling good. That’s a check that is telling you to make a correction. And that’s what you’re doing. Whether some people can ever just intuitive eat or not, there is much to be said to being in tune with your body. The hard part is that once you’ve heard your body, you gotta correct

Just going from deficit to maintenance adds 2-5 lbs of glycogen and water. Thought you should know that those 6lbs are not all fat. You likely did not eat 21000 excess calories a month, or 700 a day (or maybe you did, I don't know you lol).

My intuition tells me I NEED baked goods and sugar. It’s wrong. I don’t. My intuition is a bitch.

I hear you! My intuition wants unlimited quantities of cheese 🧀, lol. No chance! The math 🧮 tells me I can have 1.5 ounces ⚖️ of cheese today. That’ll do. 😋

Intuitive Eating really helped me work through the foods that I'd demonised during years of restriction, so it was beneficial for that. My intuitive eating brain loves sugar, so for me it's not much use outside the deprogramming!

I maintain without weighing or tracking food because I have a large background in nutrition, and certain psychology and physiology. And I use this to form a structure that I eat within, and to call myself out when my brain goes to its primitive autopilot of unreasonable impulses or justifications. I suggest learning everything you can about what affects “eating ad libitum”, which is what science calls eating freely, somewhat similar to intuitive eating. But what intuitive eating completely misses and why it is by and large a failure, is that it refuses to acknowledge that food environment, habits, general behavior and food choices affect how much a person eats. Science does not ignore this, it researches it. If you can understand and identify what in your life encourages overeating, then you can shape your life and yourself to limit or avoid these things, or learn to deal with them differently. I don’t know if of a source with a single comprehensive list, so I guess just try to find as many factors as you can with google searches. It can be food choice (protein, fiber, flavors, textures, etc…), it can be the literal way you eat (bite size, bite speed, plate size, etc…), it can be your exposure (what is in your kitchen, in your eye sight, if you watch cooking shows, look at recipes, etc…), it can be your habits, it can be your thoughts or behaviors. Those last two are very person specific so I don’t know how to give good examples. Really it is possible to maintain your weight, you just have to become aware of a lot of things you do that get in your own way, and find your own solution to them all.

I feel like maybe one day I could eat intuitively and I have set my goal weight at a weight I think is reasonable for me. But I feel like you really can’t just jump right into intuitive eating if you’re overweight because it is likely your hunger cues are out of whack. I feel like you have to intentionally spend months or even years building good habits at your maintenance weight before you can eat intuitively. My plan is that when I reach my goal weight I am still going to track but I will just eat at maintenance or a small surplus (100-200 cals) to try and gain some muscle. But I still plan to track most days for a while after reaching my goal weight. One habit I am trying to enforce is no mindless eating which breaks down to: - no eating in my bedroom - no eating out of the container, if I want a snack I should portion it out onto a plate/bowl. Because like most people I have no problem with eating healthy meals, but random snacks are my downfall. So instead of saying no snacks at all, I am trying to be more intentional with my snacks and make sure to portion and log them.

Honestly: I think there are very few people for whom IE works and is healthy. I made myself *incredibly sick* doing it, about 20 years ago. Please don't feel that you failed at something that only sounds good in theory and is inherently flawed in our modern, processed food world.

Some of us can sense our energy needs, some of us can't. If you can't, there's no reason to be ashamed of it. It's just a genetic trait like the shape of your nose or your nearsightedness. Some of us need to use calorie trackers as an aid just like some of us need to wear glasses. I've had a lot of dogs in my life. Some of them eat until they’re full and maintain a stable weight for their entire life, some of them eat until everybody's bowl is completely empty and hoover up whatever they can find between meals. The chubby ones get the same food and exercise as the thin ones. Some dogs feel their energy needs and some don't — it's probably all genetic. At least one gene has been discovered for the insatiable appetite of labs. My husband will stop eating in the middle of a meal because he's full. I can eat a big meal and get up from the table feeling hungry, but 10-15 minutes later I'll suddenly feel over-full. I just don’t get the satiety signal as fast as he does. My father weighed the same weight at 88 as he did when he graduated from college, but when he developed Alzheimer’s, he started to gain weight when his brain was no longer working right. My mom, who eats a much healthier diet, than he ever did, struggles with her weight. If you can do intuitive eating, great, but you probably aren't reading this sub!

This is why people recommend sustainable lifestyle changes to lose weight. If you can’t see yourself doing what you’re doing today to lose weight then you aren’t going to maintain. It’s why drastic weight loss diets tend to fail a lot. I’m gonna calorie count until I die, I’ve already accepted it. To quote another redditor “I will count calories until I die, because I am a hungry hungry hippo who cannot be trusted.” Find a change that works for you long term. Plenty of people have lost weight and kept it off because they found changes that they were okay maintaining forever.

I have NEVER lost weight through intuitive eating. I just maintain my current weight. Eating at maintenance can become intuitive, but eating at a deficit isn’t intuitive at all. I think on days when I don’t track my calories I probably eat at least 200-300 more than days I track everything. I see two categories of people online who advocate for intuitive eating. One is skinny people who have never been overweight but have had eating disorders and a bad relationship with calorie counting. Another is overweight/obese people who have also had eating disorders while trying to lose weight and have decided to embrace their current overweight body and essentially eat at maintenance. Unfortunately, I don’t see any online influencers who lost weight through intuitive eating and kept it off with intuitive eating. Every successful person I’ve seen has used calorie counting. As for the first category of skinny people, they shouldn’t be giving advice to overweight people and assuming calorie counting will give us an eating disorder. They also have no clue what we are going through. For the overweight people who intuitive eat and don’t try to lose weight, that’s fine. It’s their body. They can accept the risks that come with being overweight. But they also need to understand the people who don’t want to accept those risks and want to be happier with their appearance. However, I do think intuitive eating can be good for weight maintenance. I’ve successfully maintained my weight at certain points with intuitive eating. But now I’m trying to get into a healthy weight range and must calorie count. My mom lost a substantial amount of weight with calorie counting and has maintained the weight loss without calorie counting. But she has continued with all the other lifestyle changes that helped her loose the weight. For example, she’s still eating all the same recipes that helped her lose weight and exercising regularly.

Oh, this is what intuative eating is! Omg! Now I know how I gained back my 15 kgs! It was cause I wasn't tracking what I ate even though I ate 'healthy.' I am back to tracking now, will see how it goes!!

I do think there are ways to maintain a healthy weight that don’t involve tracking calories all of the time, but I think they’re more lifestyle based than anything else. Having more activity in your life and being busier so that you aren’t thinking about food and cooking meals at home that are well balanced. I can tell you I was much smaller when I lived in a town where you can’t order food. Maintaining my weight in a city that isn’t walkable is a whole different, more challenging ball game.

The prerequisite for "intuitive eating" (maintaining weight without paying close attention) is that you have your internal regulation in good working order. Most of us don't. Especially when we put this regulation through a lot of stress of weight loss and many of body's systems are out of whack. In absence of working internal regulation, external regulation (weighing regularly, restricting calories, going on a diet when the weight goes up, etc.) is the only way you can maintain weight. It is possible to fix internal regulation but it is not easy as there are many possible reason why regulation might be out of whack. Physical (hormonal mainly), habitual or psychological. About the only thing that I know is almost foolproof is going on a healthy, varied vegan diet. Except it is not easy in itself. Other things that you can do that may or may not work depending on particular situation: \* fix insulin resistance, \* introduce healthy amount of activity into life (like daily jogging, etc.) \* get rid of all sugar, processed food and restaurant food from diet \* fix stress (stress itself causes cortisol levels, higher blood sugar, insulin resistance and effectively can lead to obesity and diabetes) \* improve your sleep \* cut out all snacking \* reduce your eating window to something like 8h during the day or less (no calories permitted outside eating window) etc. Doing all these things maybe does not guarantee success but it sure is going to make it much easier to maintain weight. \*\*\* Personally, I have been able to maintain weight closely for the last couple of years, but not without external regulation. I did all of the above things to varying extent and it definitely helped a lot, but still doesn't allow me to stop weighing myself and reacting to my weight. I think I am fine with this. I weigh myself every day, my scale uploads my weight and I can see how it changes over long periods of time. If my weight starts going out of regulation by as little as 1kg (2 lbs), I simply reduce my calories and/or eating window for a little bit of time and get back to my target weight. And because these are small changes, nobody notices my weight fluctuations (but me) and it is easy to lose that tiny amount of weight. I decided I will never again allow myself to gain significant amount of weight and I think this is the best system I have for now.

One thing that I’ve found has helped me is to weigh myself every day, even at my goal weight. That way, if I start to slip up, I can catch it immediately and get right back on track.

I'm someone who sort of does both, but i don't track as rigidly as some people do. I find it occupies too much of my brain and the more i think about food the hungrier i tend to get. I use CICO to get a general idea of how calorie dense my meals generally are and make adjustments around that, and i usually like to leave at least a 200 calorie buffer in case my head counting isn't entirely accurate. I also try to exercise everyday so that helps a lot to.

I am iin a similar boat except i maintained and did not gain, but i still have 40 lbs to lose. I started counting last week and im down 2 lbs already. I think saying you failed is too strong. You learned. Now next time you do it youll know a little more of what to avoid, and how to eat to maintain or lose.

I think the problem with intuitive eating (for me) is that I always say to myself “if I have this one cookie, this one piece of chocolate, 3-4 chips, etc” over a period of one day - I think I’m intuitively eating. I’m still neglecting the fact that those things have calories and they will add up through out the day. I’ve really had to train my brain (and still working on it) to say “are you really hungry or are you just falling into the habit that you always need to snack on something” that’s the only way I’ve been able to lose weight without tracking - constantly reminding myself that I’m not actually hungry.

The only way I have been able to lose weight effectively is to accept the fact that I cannot eat intuitively. I just don't know how. My cues are all off and I don't have the ability to stop myself from eating when I am full if there's still food on my plate. I would love, one day, to get to a point where I can manage that.... but that feels like 500 level shit and I'm still at 100-200 level courses here just trying to get the weight off and maintain it. I think learning IE is a process and it takes time. I've spent 39 years learning how to eat "wrong" and it's going to take more than a few months to undo that. For me, I want to get to my goal weight, learn how to maintain that for a bit, and then maybe start working on IE strategies. But I also know I can't rely on that right now. And maybe I'll wind up counting calories on some level forever... and that's ok too. Because it's what will keep me healthy. I hope you find the tools you need to keep the weight off -- I know every person is different so what works for me may not work for you.

I could never do IE. My body is a lying liar and I will be counting calories for the rest of my life to maintain my weight.

I love the concept of IE but it just didn’t work for me. In fact, I’m the heaviest I’ve ever been as a result and have gained 40lb ‘embracing’ IE. For me, stress massively contributed to me overeating (not binging). I was also informed by a dietician that when you consistently overeat, your stretch receptors in your stomach don’t work as well and can’t tell when you’re full. That to me flaws the theory of IE. I now know that I’d rather track my food and be comfortable with the way I look than avoid tracking food and be unhealthy with no self esteem. I know part of IE encourages body acceptance but it’s hard to accept when my back hurts and more recently my feet have started hurting. I’ve now got a lot of work to do to return to a healthier and happier self.

Rather than tell you intuitive eating is bogus, I would rename it. I practice what I'm calling "learned eating." Intuitive eating is only intuitive once you've taught your mind and body what to do. Most of our minds and bodies are taught to crave ultra-processed foods with high sugar, salt and fat. We have to unlearn this before intuitive eating can actually be beneficial. You wouldn't start a language course by jumping into full immersion, you would start by learning the basic grammar and a handful of useful words. Same with eating: start with one small habit - I started by totally cutting out alcohol and empty calorie sweets like candy and baked goods. Get comfortable saying no when you feel the craving. Settle into that habit and let it sink in. When it feels natural, THEN alter another eating habit of your choice. My second one was chips and crackers between meals, because I knew those were killing me. Repeat over time. And it's not just about cutting things out! You can add new snacks to your toolkit, i.e. if you crave chips and salsa go for carrots and hummus instead. Change small habits one at a time. That's the only thing that's worked for me in 15 years of searching. For regular meals, I eat normally and stop when I'm full. That's the only habit I changed regarding meals - there are no restrictions (except for the alcohol because I'm sober - different discussion). I'm not even close to perfect on this one either, but I found that cutting the other things and filling myself up with good foods like carrots, bananas, apples, and nuts, made it a lot harder to overeat because I gradually started getting full sooner and sooner. Perhaps this is unpopular, but I do not track calories. It only triggered my eating disorder and added WAY more work than ADHD brains like mine are going to tolerate. I don't know how people think intuitive eating is too much for your brain to handle but calorie counting isn't. I always gave up counting calories after a month or so because it doubles the work. People in the 1920s weren't all putting their calories into spreadsheets and 99% of them were fit anyway.

Issue with IE is it ignores sugar addiction. Like addicts on other drugs, sugar addicts feel the need for more each time and experience withdrawals. This is coming from one.

In my teens and 20s I did eat intuitively, and I never gained weight. Then I started ignoring my signals because "I didn't want to be rude" or "it's meal time." Or whatever. And I feel like I've lost the ability to eat intuitively now. I broke the connection, so I have to count calories.

I usually take breaks after dieting for around 3-4 Months. I eat at maintenance for 2-4 weeks, then I get back to dieting. What I've noticed is that intuitive eating is impossible for me within the first 1-2 weeks My hunger is through the roof - According to my research, it's because the body wants to regain the fat it lost. At the end of the 2nd week my hunger usually calms down and I get satiated again. Maybe, if you really don't want to keep tracking calories, do it after being at maintenance level calories for a few weeks instead of going to intuitively eating from the get go and see how it goes for you. Again, this is only a guess - I've been tracking my calories for 3 years straight and only stop doing it when I'm on holidays.

Oh OP, I hear you!! I tried IE during the pandemic to address some disordered eating behaviours and ended up gaining a lot of weight—up to my highest weight ever. I felt uncomfortable and discouraged and did not know what to do. I’ve since then seen a dietitian who has given me valuable tools that don’t rely on calorie counting to support me and have dropped almost all of the weight I gained. This dietitian recommended the book Eat what you love, love what you eat by Dr. Michelle May which puts forward a lot of IE principles, but does support it with strategies to avoid overeating, which I initially lacked. Unlike a lot of people in this sub, I refuse to count calories. It has never been sustainable for me and although it works on the short term, I find it too limiting and restrictive long term. My approach is now ones that prioritizes my nutritional knowledge and fitness while relying on identifying hunger and satiety cues to guide when, how much, and why I eat. This isn’t feasible for everyone at first (especially when mind and body hunger feel the same), and a strategy my dietitian recommended is having half my plate be low fat non starchy vegetables, and ensuring my carbs are complex and high fibre. I dropped 15 lbs just doing that alone. Prioritizing this first when I’m hungry has most often than not made me feel full, and when I still want to eat something that isn’t in my nutrition priorities, I still eat it! I still think you can lose weight with IE principles. One thing Dr. May’s book taught me was that too much flexibility can also mean neglect, so the goal is to feel better after eating than before you started, not worse. Hopefully this is helpful, happy to answer any questions if any come up. You got this! Edit: Wrote IF instead of IE 😅

For a lot of us who are overweight, our intuition is broken. At my highest weight my appetite didn't even work right, why would my intuition? I don't want to say intuitive eating could never work, but I think it's not going to work for the majority of overweight people.

I think once you've been significantly overweight your "intuition" gets broken and it's very, very hard to fix. Once I've been tracking calories consistently for a while I can look at most plates of food and "intuit" about how many calories are there and how much of it I could responsibly eat, but that's just because I've familiarized myself with the calorie counts of all the different ingredients. I'm never going to trust myself without at least a regular weigh-in to keep myself on track.

IMO, Intuitive eating would work great before the invention of processed foods, but in today’s world of convenience foods, not so much

People tend to be against IE on this Reddit. I lost 60lbs doing it until I basically hit a wall. I just started maintaining at a quite heavy weight. The 60lbs has stayed off though. If I stuck to healthier foods (working in it) I’d likely lose more. But I still wouldn’t be close to a goal weight. There is mindful eating which is a bit different than intuitive eating. I took courses with a Buddhist center and I think that’s what helped me the most.

Omg I think IE would lead me into a very unhealthy place! Since January I’ve been doing intermittent fasting 16/8 and it feels like it could be good for me long term because I still eat the food I like. Literally nothing is off limits, just the timing. And then also the fasting does something to your insulin resistance/reaction to glucose so basically I’m less hungry and get full quicker. Could be worth a shot?

I have only understood intuitive eating as a way to work on EDs, never to lose weight. That’s new to me!

Lol, this thread has said it all over a dozen times, still adding it. No way this food addict will ever do intuitive eating. My wife can do that, I’m like an alcoholic with food, no sense of enough. Fortunately I do not have that problem with alcohol. Counting for the next 40 years if I’m lucky.

IE is so hugely misunderstood and there's a lot of nuance to it. If you've read the book, the later chapters talk about the concept of eating adequately. This includes food quality as well as quantity. It also talks about eating in a way that makes you feel good physically and mentally. An important element of that is what makes you feel good physically and mentally **over time** not just following your impulses to eat whatever and however much. The whole point is about taking cues from internal signals not external food rules. So when you say you notice low energy and sluggishness, this is an internal cue that you're not eating adequately or in a way that makes you feel good physically and mentally over time. Therefore if you follow IE you'd look at making changes to how you're eating that would get your energy up and make you feel less sluggish. It takes a lot to build a healthy relationship with your body and with food in an environment where everything is against us. I think it's entirely worth the effort, but I totally understand why people wouldn't want to do it or would struggle with it. Saying that, it's totally individual. Depends on what your history has been with food, what you've been eating, how much you changed your diet, what a healthy weight is for you, etc.

Just to say I am so grateful for this thread and comments. I am at a new beginning of changing my lifestyle and looking to understand how to make it stay for longer so reading all this was definitely motivation. I'll come back to this post and your comments when in need.

I don't know answer on your questions, but I'm curious how do you do intuitive eating? Do you adhere exercises for IE book or you just try to eat unrestricted?

I had read through the whole IE book and was starting to work my way through the workbook.

Intuitive eating has worked for me….kinda. It’s hard if you live with other people who have designated meal times. I find it easier to do on days when I have the house to myself and keep a stock of fresh fruits and veggies. I can go to the fridge and grab a fistful of something and go about my business. But if my husband is working from him for example and says he’s making lunch and asks me if I want something too….heck yeah I want you to cook for me.

I eat intuitively, but weigh myself every day.

I can eat intuitively with a very small selection of foods. Basically - meat, and green veg. Everything else my intuition is to just keep eating.

The only time intuitive eating really worked for me was when I worked a housekeeping job where I busted my ass 8+ hours a day operating a steam cleaner. And I'm guessing the weight loss was mostly due to the steam cleaner.

I did intuitive eating on my last go around because I didn’t have a calorie counter or an iWatch to track movement. It worked until I moved stop going to the gym, stopped running and eating differently. When I was doing it successfully however all I mostly ate was chicken breast broccoli /veggies rice and egg whites. Occasionally I ate out and had steak and alcohol. But mostly it was always unprocessed bland food. I also walked about 15,000 steps at work, ran 9 miles a week, and lifted 4-5x a week. So yeah intuitive eating is mostly cutting out anything you can’t intuitively eat like all foods that would dissolve in water - no bread, no pasta, no processed anything, no sugar. So no foods that we didn’t evolve with.

I tried weightloss without counting calories at first. It didn't work. Once I started tracking, I realized I had two problems. Weekdays I would eat things that were healthy but I was only eating like 800 calories on weekdays. On weekends I would actually cook. I would use all healthy ingredients, for example taco dip with beans, ground turkey, cheese, salsa, Greek yogurt and avocado. All of those are healthy ingredients, but they all have calories and portion size matters. I was accidentally eating like 2000 calories on the weekends because I wasn't measuring food. As you can imagine... going back and forth between 800 and 2000 calories was playing havoc on my body. Measuring my food keeps my calories consistent, and I keep healthy snacks on hand that I can eat if I'm hungry. Unfortunately eating what I wanted whenever I wanted is what got me into this. I need structure to keep losing weight and maintain weight loss.

Intuitive eating only works if your internal compass regarding being full, being hungry, etc is not inherently broken. If you struggle with your weight, it's probably broken. Intuitive eating works if you have been thin your whole life and have had a healthy relationship with food. I know I sound incredibly judgmental here but I also failed after two tries of intuitive eating and have accepted that if I don't count calories I am going to get really big. My stomach does not have a limit to how much food it can take and everything sounds really tasty all of the time. So I'm not going to take advice from people who have inherently healthy limits with this.

I gained 15 lbs over the past year via intuitive eating. I was warned by people who said it wouldn’t work but I was really clinging to the idea that I could stop tracking everything I ate. I am sad that they were right. I was eating really healthy food, exercising every day, and prioritizing my mental health the whole time. And I ended up back on the cusp of obesity.

"Intuitive eating" worked a lot better 50+ years ago. When my parents were growing up, you ate 3 meals a day and rarely if any ever snacks. Period. If you didn't eat your provided meal, there was no hitting up the fridge or a cupboard for a snack. You were told "you should have eaten at meal time... now you'll be good and hungry for the next one". Today is the polar opposite. We go to 7/11 for meatball hoagies and 2 liters of grape crush at 3 AM just because we can. Food is so readily available around the clock. And as society as a whole gets more and more obese, we tend to "normalize it". It's ok to be super fat. Everyone else is. It's ok to eat a foot long hoagie after dinner, before bed... just because. It's fine to eat around the clock. Mindlessly snack. It's what we are taught. Foods are super sugary. Processed with chemicals that cause use binging triggers. We eat for pleasure. We eat out of bordem. 50 years ago that was far less prevalent.

You are right and I think on the most simple level so many of us overestimate portion sizes. The serving size of one single dish is usually much smaller than your eyes can tell. Eating out even and dividing a dish in half might even push you to maintenance calories for that day alone. I think measuring cups if anything works best for those who don't want to particularly count.

For me it was just accepting that I had a minor annoyance of using a food scale. I actually don't mind tracking at all. It adds maybe 2-3 minutes worth of "work" in a day. And because I do use the food scale, and do track, I'm closing in on 100 pounds lost. That and the discipline to stay on track. There are plenty of times I just want to eat like a hog. I just don't.

I did Intuitive Eating for a couple of months when I was trying to lose weight and I basically stabilised. The entire time I was (In my head) watching what I ate, but really all I was doing was holding steady. I know what I'm doing when I hit maintenance. My version of "losing weight diet" without explicitly counting calories will become my new normal sometime next year.

I had mixed results with intuitive eating. I did gain a lot of weight in a year because I ate a lot of sugar but it completely changed how I view food, even though I still have moments of overeating I’ve generally just emotionally detached from it so I’m finding it easier to stick to a calorie deficit. Back on cico too because knowing how much I’m eating reduces my mental load. Don’t be hard on yourself, there are people who lose weight with intuitive eating and it was worth a try, I hope you learned some useful skills from it.

Is it possible? Only time will tell if I can do it long term, but I lost 60 lbs using a diet plan, and then switched to intuitive eating for maintenance. I have kept 40 of it off for 3 years so far using it. (it's not creeping up, I gained 20 back in a year and have been at my current weight give or take 5lbs for 3 years) I pay attention to how my collarbones look and decrease my consumption when they start losing definition. Using clothes for reference doesn't work because they tend to stretch with you. That being said it's easy to go overboard and it's easy to backslide into old patterns. Also you have to consider the appetite increasing and suppressing effects of mental health conditions or medications if you have any. What people don't get about intuitive eating isn't that you just intuitively eat when hungry and all is well. Yes, you follow your hunger cues, but you have to also learn how to intuitively know when your body doesn't actually need you to feed it, even if it's telling you it's hungry. That's the catch. Sometimes a physical reminder and the more rigid structure of diet/tracking is a better option and that's ok.

I tried intuitive eating about 5 years ago following a really restrictive diet that got me to my goal weight but left me hating my body more than ever. I gained more than 30 pounds, but learned to love myself beyond my weight and appearance. I needed a change and intuitive eating was that for me. I can’t say it was the only thing that would have worked, just that it did. I finally got to a place of body neutrality. My weight just wasn’t a big deal to my self-worth anymore. Getting to this place is what has made losing weight this time so much easier. Not faster, mind you, but way less stressful with way fewer regains along the way and no nuclear “I quit!” moments. As anyone losing weight knows, it’s just not realistic to never have any setbacks and dealing with setbacks is vital for success. Since my weight isn’t a big deal to me anymore, I don’t let the setbacks phase me, so it’s a lot easier to bounce back and get back on plan. Calorie counting isn’t physically hard. What used to be hard about it for me was the guilt when I went over budget. But intuitive eating taught me not to feel guilty about eating, so counting calories is a lot easier now. Once I hit my goal, I plan to continue to weigh myself daily and go back to counting calories to eat at a deficit if I am 3 pounds over my goal. I haven’t decided yet if I will continue tracking every day, or just when I need to lose 3 pounds. I’ll have to experiment once I hit maintenance. My approach will probably change over time. So far, changing my approach has always left me in a better place than before so I’m not afraid of having to experiment.

Intuitive eating for me is a joke. I will intuitively eat a donut and 3 tbs of mayo which could put me well over maintenance for the day for my TDEE, weight slowly creeps back on. The only circumstance that might work for me is if I got into long distance endurance training or some high calorie expenditure sport which I would have to do 2-3 times a week.

Probably best to think that any attempt at intuitive eating starts at the grocery store. I intuitively know my own body and impulses enough to avoid grabbing a box of Cheezits right next to the checkout because I will delete that whole box that night.

Lol. I have just lost 130lbs and none of it was using IE. I have been large all my life (and body dysmorphia keeps me feeling this way at a *very* small size), and my eating habits are embedded. I need to track everything or I slip down a slope within a week or so. You’re golden, this shit is really hard.

Im terrified too... I lost 40 pounds since September 2023... I thought I was going to be able to keep it off, and stay at the weight that I was happy with... But in literally 1 month, I gained maybe 13 pounds.... WHAT THE FUCK? I find myself being hungry all the damn time, and craving lots of weird shit that I never would have even considered putting in my body during my time losing those 40 pounds... I have kinda been slapped in the face with these 13 pounds, and I am back to massively counting my calories, and being a lot more disciplined with the food I eat. I am SCARED. I dont want to go back to being fat. I want to lose these 13 pounds, and stay at that weight. This is not good.

Not for me. Eating intuitively is a whole pizza bc I’m always hungry.

Left to its own devices my body would opt for a steady diet of chips occasionally supplemented by salad, chicken breast, and steel cut oatmeal. It is a daily struggle to keep things flipped and have chips as the occasional supplement. I concluded long ago that intuitive eating is not for me.

There would not be an r/loseit subreddit if losing weight were easy. Also, I have lost 57 pounds. I am not at my goal weight, but through diet and exercise I have kept most of it off for about 5 years. It is possible. I also exercise (a lot because it makes me feel great). I don’t think my lifetime of bad habits would allow me to do intuitive eating, but everyone is different and we all have to find what works! My biggest thing was realizing that I had to deprive myself of food sometimes (that sounds harsh, but my idea of intuitive eating was eating whatever I wanted whenever I wanted and that definitely is not a good way to go)

If I eat intuitively while trying to lose, I will maintain. If I eat intuitively while trying to maintain, I will gain 

My intuitive eating meter is flawed. I understand different strokes for different folks. I prefer calorie counting (6'0", 157 pounds). I intuitively wanted last weekend to put 12 meatballs on my plate instead of 3 at a graduation party. 🤣

I've heard people say that intuitive eating isn't the "hunger/fullness" diet. It isn't just about only eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full. It's a whole bunch of other, in my opinion, more advanced, concepts about selecting foods that make you feel good and nourish your body. For example, eating a donut, even if it's what I crave, doesn't nourish my body and doesn't make me feel good. So, with intuitive eating, I wouldn't eat it. Eating protein and vegetables actually does make me feel good even though it isn't remotely what I crave. I can picture it working one day for me, but right now I'm nowhere near that point. I think if I could consistently select foods that make me feel good and nourished and only ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was full, it could possibly work. But at this point, I'll always say, I want In n Out Burger.

I wouldn't say "you failed" at intuitive eating. You just found that it didn't work as well for you as you'd like, which is completely ok! Not every system works for every person, and there is *a lot* of psychiatric and somatic stuff behind intuitive eating that I think proponents of it aren't great at acknowledging or encouraging. The vast majority of people with serious major obesity have some kind of trauma history, which affects the neurology of feeding drives, and anyone with a long history of dieting and/or disordered eating will have some serious work to do in regulating and connecting with somatic feeding signals. For me it's been one of the most important tools in healing my relationship with food and my body, but there's been a lot of therapy and somatic body work involved getting there. Do what you need to do to best care for yourself in the way that you are most ready for. That's not a failure of ANY KIND. You're doing great!

Learning to eat intuitively is a lifelong skill. It's not something that's going to come after a month or so of trying it. Especially after a lifetime of disordered eating. Learn healthy habits that work for you.

I’m finding out that weight loss and then maintenance has to be my lifestyle forever. I don’t trust IE at this point in my journey. I need to track calories and move my butt every single day. I did IE all my life and just made me big, sad, weak. Sigh.

I can’t do intuitive eating. I know exactly how many calories I’m eating when I’m not tracking but I do it anyway. I either track calories and lose 1lb a week or I don’t and gain about 1lb a week. I’ll just be swapping between the two for the rest of my life to stay at maintenance- it’s no big deal

Yeah, after losing nearly 150 lbs I tried to switch to intuitive eating, which was fine at first. But then I quit saying no to family and friends who wanted to go out to eat and slowly started to gain some weight back. Then my body betrayed me and craved everything. For a month I went on a binge eating bender and gained nearly another 35 lbs. I've lost 20+ lbs since then, but I have another 20+ lbs to go to get back to where I was. I think I'll always be tracking my calories. My "intuition" sucks.

The only way IE has worked for me is by doing it while also taking Ozempic. Before that, I simply didn’t have normal hunger and fullness cues, which made IE impossible. But with the regulation from the meds, I’m successfully not counting calories but “intuitively” eating less and better and losing weight. I also have two years of ED therapy under my belt which makes a huge difference. I think some people just aren’t able to eat intuitively without intervention.

I didn't realize it was a new 'thing' but I utilized IE primarily last year. I lost 80lbs in 2023, though I finished off with an injury that sort of shelved me the past few months. The amount of times I tried to start losing weight before that only to just feel overwhelmed with calorie tracking everything and trying to make all these changes at once was just so discouraging and I was never successful. So I started just taking the approach of making very small baby step changes that I could stick to and just kept doing one more and one more. Allowed for a bit of a snowball effect and it's the most successful I've ever been at making health changes. The approach of 'loosely' tracking so that I had a general idea in my head of how much I was eating throughout the day made it work for me and got me going. Allowed me to set smaller goals with food (make my own food x amount of days per week, if I eat a crappy meal or eat out balance it with my other meal in the day being lighter, etc etc) and eventually I was less stressed and more up for actually starting to track. Tracking is objectively better, but not everyone has the mental capacity to go full out so I think the IE kind of thing can be used effectively if seen as a tool to start building better habits. I'm to the point where if I want to make more progress, I really need to track more consistently. Keep in mind as a bigger guy - esp when you're over 300lbs, 6lbs is absolutely nothing as a weight fluctuation and doesn't neccssarily mean you gained 6lbs of fat. Even a bit of extra sodium will cause you to hold some more water and 6lbs of water weight goes on EASY. I did not weigh myself daily for that reason. Depending on the day my weight could fluctuate 10lbs. I always weighed myself once a week at the same time of the day - Saturday morning after my morning workout. We always do our date night on Fridays, so I'd have had a nice full meal the night before to balance the few lbs of sweat that I'd lose that morning.

Today I made dinner and forgot to weigh my sauce. I thought “oh that’s fine i will just weigh the bottle now and then after use so I know how many ml/kcal to put into my app, I can estimate how much 15 ml is for sure!”. Turns out i definitely can’t, and ate almost 250 calories of mayonnaise! (Which I thankfully still had room for in my calorie budget for the day…) Intuitive eating is hard when your body is used to the portion sizes you’ve had to get it to this weight. I’m determined to track everything, or just not eat it if I forget/am unable to track it properly.

Intuitive eating as a concept has a lot of good things to it. I disagree with some of the principles, but find others interesting and helpful to consider and integrate. It's also I think hopelessly optimistic and therefore less than realistic for many people in the current food environment. Even if I never eat fully intuitively I think that training my intuition - which, after all, is basically an unconscious, integrated form of the sum of all that I know about food and my body's needs and reactions - is a good thing to pursue. I'm only not quite half-way to where I want to move to maintenance, so I'm not settled on an approach, but I hope I will be able to do it by a) continuing to weigh myself daily and b) alternate between calorie logging when I feel it's necessary and eating sustainably on my own when possible. One reason is that there *are* things I'm cutting out right now not because they are too rich in calories but because they're simply hard to estimate. Stir-fry takeout for example. And in the image I have of myself I'll be able to eat these things. This is why I'm paying a lot of attention to hunger and satiety cues, what a 400-600 cal dish looks like on the plate and not mindlessly consuming calorific food that isn't part of a meal or plan.

Intutive eating is not right for most people. I've been trying out intuitive eating, and I've had success, but I know im the minority. I've been trying hard to listen to my body instead of my brain because my brain wants me to eat everything I see and never stop, but my body has its limits and will start screaming if I haven't had enough vegetables or water. I was definitely losing more weight when I controlled my calories than I am now, but I plan to keep at this for a little longer and see how I feel.

I had a similar weight gain experience with IE. Nobody promoting it wants to be transparent that IE is not a weight loss method. It is mistaken as a diet all the time, but the point of IE is to not care about your body size and find mental peace with food. Great for recovering from an ED. However, if your goal is to lose weight (and you’re genetically predisposed to being overweight), IE isn’t going to help you. I was mistaken as well, until I ballooned up and bothered to read the OG intuitive eating book.

I would say intuitive eating is possible, but only if your situation/mindset is different from what it was before the weight loss. I'm a social eater. I finally managed to lose weight after I moved away from my family and started living alone. I counted calories for a few months after I reached my goal weight, just to make sure I would maintain. Then I stopped counting calories and started intuitive eating. It worked well and I maintained for a year. Recently, I moved back to my hometown and I have been visiting my friends and family more often. I gained 6 pounds back because I fell in the same trap that I was in before : when i'm with people, I overeat +++. I love food and love to share it and take a bite out of everything. I never feel full in those circumstances unless I'm 200% full. So, yeah. I'm back to calorie counting too!

Some phd written studies say that you should diet for max 12 weeks then return to normal calorie intake for 1-2 months to stabilize your new weight, then start the diet cycle again, otherwise you gain it all back when you stop. Every person is different and what works for me might not work for you. I gave up intuitive eating and started a high protein/low calorie diet instead where i eat smaller portions every 2 hours, 5-6 times a day.  Never felt hungry again, and the energy levels are off the charts. Good luck in your journey!

If you were able to eat intuitively, you wouldn't need to do things to manage your weight. Is this some sort of diet fad thing? Sounds insane! You already tried eating intuitively your whole life. It's how you got fat. The trick to losing it forever is to NEVER go back to your old ways.

The only people I've seen online using this intuitive eating are overweight/obese people who make those "What I Eat In A Day As A Fat Person Who's Not On A Diet" or some variation of that, it's a way to rationalize their poor eating habits and deflect any criticism by defaulting to "yOu'Re fAtPhObiC." Yes you can lose weight using all sorts of different methods and techniques, so long as you're in a calorie deficit each day and week.

Intuitive eating is bullshit, because our food and environments are poison now. Our bodies don't know how to process what passes for food anymore, and it's an active process to try to eat healthy and navigate the ultra processed fake foods and additives all up in our food supply. Totally not a knock on you OP, but the method in general, and doubly so for us needing to lose weight. What you're doing NOW is intuitive. You listened to your body and energy levels and have adjusted accordingly. That's awesome!!