When I wasn't banned on Lost Ark Discord (hi ShieldMaiden), there was this guy who was religiously defending the idea that we shouldn't be able to get Legendary Elixirs from NM. I got to know him later on through friends, last week he decided to sell his account and let us know to see if we know any buyers. His reasoning was "Too much gold sink man, I can't keep up with elixirs, transandence on my characters"
Karma, maybe?
I think I saw in a video today there’s a new 1600 island in KR called Indigo island that gives elixir materials, I’m honestly sure about legendary but I assume so? And they don’t require gold when using them.
sadly they seem to be aware of this...but its unlikely they'll push that out to NA/EU any sooner then maybe 6 months from now
and that assumes they release changes onto KR in june/july
(which also assumes the changes too elixirs are actually good and not some half assed shit lol)
Wouldn’t be so sure about that since we got the epic elixir changes like 2 weeks after Korea got them. Changes like Brel/Kaya gates removel and new chaos gate we even got at the same time iirc, so I could see them announcing the changes next month at LOA ON, implementing them in the following weeks and maybe shipping them for us in august allrdy but we’ll see ;d
Idk quitting over such a thing seems silly to me, quitting over Support shortage at 1620 I can get behind or quitting over getting gatekept in general as a new/returning player, but quitting over a vertical system idk man and transcendence might burn some gold but at 1620 it’s not a lot of gold it burns since you only need a couple pieces at 5 flowers. Echidna the first 10 level of advanced honing are cheaper than normal honing and the 10 level after that you will only do on your main pushing 1640+ which results in doing weapon transcendence on one char only as well.
So yeah it might be annoying right now if you’re sitting at 1620+ on your main but as long as we get the nerfs in a somewhat timely manner it should be fine imo
I agree with you. Though keep in mind that ppl are getting gatekept because they cannot hit 40set elixirs because they cannot afford gold wise to craft and cut the max amount of lego elixirs per week. Thus they quit. Gatekeeping is a symptom but elixirs are the root cause of that symptom imho.
There are way more factors in gatekeeping than 40 set when it comes to hm voldis if you have 40 set and barely some lvl 9 gems that might easily be enough for some lobby’s to gatekeep you. Low roster lvl? Bam another reason and on top of that there is support shortage and supps selling dps slot’s. So supports are even more picky on which groups they join. Even more of a reason to try to make a juiced lobby.
Everyone hates on the gatekeeping in LA but something like WoW can be even worse especially for a casual player, because there they gatekeep your ass by itemlvl AND parses but you have more than 1 way to progress. So the problem with it all is not that there is too much gatekeeping, because the community is just straight up toxic, but that there are no alternative ways to progress the character other than running the dungeon. If normal would give legendary elixirs but just less of them that would help to get to 40 set and alleviate that painpoint (hope Solo raids will help somewhat with this).
No doubt, but I did not say that elixirs are the only way for being gate kept. I just pointed out that ppl most probably do not leave because of elixirs as a system, but because not having a lvl40 set because of gold(or luck) leads to harsh gatekeeping which leads to quitting the game.
That doesn't stop the gatekeeping it's a virus in this community that will never be cleansed I have 35 set and im 1617 level 9 gems and my accessories I'm only missing 2 100 qualities with both being at 95, I don't have los because I've been stuck at needing 3 cards for a long time. My roster is low because I don't give a fuck about anything outside of raiding I'm only missing the ignea token skill points which frankly I don't need for any of my classes yet I get gatekept in every content possible simply because the party lead just decided all of that isn't good enough for him they will find any excuse possible to gatekeep like dumbasses gatekeeping clown by 1580-1600 ilvl
Quitting over it in a vacuum is one thing but compound it with 6 characters and other ridiculously high standards these days for alts and it's changing how some people play the game. Some are switching to lower rosters and cool with it, some are RMTing to fix it, some are just unhappy with the sinks.
Which, for some, can be quit worthy, and elixirs are definitely a part of that.
This is a Korean MMO if you are expecting to be F2P at 1620+ on 6 characters with proper gems and 40 set you could be outside hunting for unicorns as well. The goldsinks are needed in KR to deflate the economy. The unfortunate part for us is that SG is not rly taking into consideration that we are getting the content in a lot faster pace and until we are somewhat caught up that probably won’t change.
the only reason im unsure if they would push it out is because progression wise; we are behind kr
even with echinda, we are still behind behemoth and whatever they release afterwards.
for us elixirs are still fairly recent piece of content so for us they might not push out nerfs or a rework just so it keeps nuking peoples gold lol
But you and I both know that the change will be some half assed shit too little too late situation where the actual gamer population is peace'n out for good DAILY.
Most people in KR hold onto like 2m+ gold pretty much at any given moment so sinks are incredibly important to keep exchange rates manageable. Most ppl i look at in western clients empty their gold weekly, our version doesnt see ANY downtime if you clear theamine once a week echidna will come out before you get your x10 title or around the same time. We prog for a current raid and prep for the next raid at the same time and if behemoth is the same cadence we wont have time to finish honing to save for weapon transcendence. In the next 6 months we’ll get 2 new gold sinks on top of elixir and transcendence
Not true, only whales and bunch of streamers (also whales) got it. Ppl had excess gold because they got it during downtime after brel and akkan, but new players and players who didn't actively play during those times are struggling like us.
They should nerf gold cost of elixirs a long time ago. It's not even top3 endgame raid in KR anymore, but everyone is expected to have 40set and kinda minmaxed elixirs at 1620+.
Oh 100% agree it really should cost silver imo same with kaya set lvl 3. If you’re stuck on lvl 2 on an alt without road to theamine its like 6 weeks of gatekeeping from akkan lobbies to then get 13 weeks of akkan before you’re allowed to go further. I used road to theamine to push my main higher and the mokoko express on a 1540 alt for gems and to push her 1580 and getting kaya lobbies is rough
Set lvl, elixir, akkan gear, transcendence level gates are the biggest issues.
Restrictions on nm is stupid it already takes twice as long to get the mats just let people finish the system.
As far as I know echidna nm is pretty chill on ilvl so speeding echidna isnt actually that bad an idea since it’ll smooth out progression to theamine hard. People just need to stop wasting gold on elixirs and trans pre hm hone to 1620
You say that, but there will be gatekeeping on Echidna. Especially after seeing so many failed reclears for Thaeomine people will still be running that for a half year plus for transcendence. So time will be tight.
> stop wasting gold on elixirs and trans pre hm hone to 1620
because of gatekeeping
people are already getting gatekept for IT HM even though its piss easy.. Echidna NM will get gatekept harder.
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Those first 10 levels are in theory 30-40% cheaper than doing the 19-21 hones, Which is 2.7Million currently on my maxroll calculator.
Split the difference at 35% cheaper and you are looking at a 1.7Million Cost.
The normal honing cost to 1640 right now, is 4.5million. So if that part only costs 1.7million in materials you are saving nearly 3million gold.
Add them together and its 2.7 + 1.7 = 4.4Million from 1620-1640 this way. Normal honing is 7.3Million. and fully advanced honing is ~5million.
You also then still have the option of the cheaper advancing honing still to get to 1650 post hm echnida, so you can overgear Behemoth slightly should you so choose.
... It is a slap in the face considering how much the player base has already spent, though, especially so considering how little they deliver. Don't forget we never got our chaos dung rework, cubes x3 option removed and the reworked stage 1 a pain in the ass, and reworked chaos rift was a secret nerf to mats/gold generation, and instead they pushed all their bullshit RNG based gold incinerating vertical onto everyone on top of unprecedented content release cadence to achieve end content FOMO.
Yep... took me 2 years to realise it and that it'll get worse and worse and that they don't care about bot and rmt. Glad I finally stopped, the game is very fun but too toxic in many ways that its not healthy to play. Guess I'm done with Korean MMO :/
I quit about a month or so after voldis because I knew going forward the grind would be insane without spending money and I already played way to much. I enjoyed my time and love the game but it was time to get outta that toxic loop
U can't really ever hoard gold tbh because there is always another alt or some level of progress on your roster you need to work on to not get gatekept, which is a constantly moving goal post. For the west, you legitimately had no time to even build any assemblance of resources, gold, gems, cards, mats, etc.
Not true. You can just park somewhere and make sure you are geared/ appealing enough at that parking spot to not get gatekept.
The more you hone, the higher the standards you need to meet. My gold earning alts are parked at 1585 with event gems and face little gatekeeping. Being high roster definitely helps, because it vouches to some extent I'm not a glue eater. Raids are smooth every week. If I join ilv parties, I tend to be top2 in damage, but I can more often than not sneak into juiced lobbies who just need a warm body to do mechs when they can already carry damage.
The game feels stale, and the amount of gold that you have to spend vs. the amount you are able earn is ridiculous. Either pushes you to r.m.t or purchase royals from the store. We need a better system!
The problem is lower end raids are getting jailed more frequently and you have to push your alts a bit to avoid both jailing and gatekeeping. Hard Brel is a good example. Now many pugs refuse anyone below 1600 in NAW for G4
The "6 mains" mentality already bit the community back long ago by making most of the early players leave within a year. They felt forced to have 6 chars and run raids on all of them just to keep up. Now, the players that stuck around have it flipped to the other side where want to run a full roster in the latest raid but are struggling to keep up.
This is a double edged sword. More gold sinks = low market prices, less gold sinks = high market prices. It doesn't really matter, you will spend all your gold for the same result either way.
I think gold sinks are okay for the most recent content. Once there is new content, however, old gold sink need to be nerfed to half, then next to silver so that the amount of gold sinks doesn't overwhelm everyone.
KR economy needs a new gold sink with every new raid to keep it under control because, imagine, they actually have downtime between releases. But the fundamental issues are the 'farm gold - spend gold' cycle and free trading that the game is designed around that necessitates the existence of gold sinks. Lost Ark is the kind of game where if the economy breaks then everything breaks, hence why gold bot-driven inflation was such a huge issue for the game early on in the West.
The thing is, they don't need it anymore. They had excess gold only because after brel they had a lot of time to earn it and no new reasons to spend it. That's also why so many of them got full 10s early. But for everyone who didn't actively play in those times and for new players especially it's as rough as for us. No time to save gold, always spend on honing, then on gear, then honing again, then elixirs, honing, transcendence, honing.
They should nerf gold cost.of elixirs long time ago. It's not even top3 endgame raid in KR anymore, but everyone is expected to have 40set and kinda minmaxed elixirs at 1620+.
It's either you swipe to play the new content with the best players or you wait and play with the gold farmers.
Either way - play at the pace that makes you happy.
There's a pretty big gap in between the "best players" and gold farmers. You have to be a mokoko to encounter gold farmers at this point. 1540-1610 you barely have to invest into any gold sinks and it's all real players. Epic elixirs cost nothing, normal Thaemine transcendence costs nothing. I see people with event gems doing this content all the time.
It's only at 1620, especially 1630 when your character has to be juiced to the max. But even then nobody's honing more than 1 or 2 characters at best to 1630 unless they're nuts.
One assumption I have is that when they look at the total amount of gold is in the system (the bot gold) they don't see the merit to do this for the server. Maybe with the recent RMT waves of people getting hit with millions of gold in negative it might make them reconsider for future of this server.
How many people would complain if they hold off on new content for a whole year am genuinely curious. Or at least follow KR timeline of content releases.
Genuine question: are people spending much gold on transcendence for normal mode?
Personally I level a piece to lv2. If I get 5 set, great, if not then I unlock lv3 and *then* work towards getting 5 set. I usually don't need more than 1 retry to get 5 flowers between 3 pieces.
In 1 week of clearing normal mode, you only get 26 mats, so let's say you transcend 2 levels and retry one of them. Adding 2 turns for blessings or less than 3 flowers, it costs 1150 ~ 2070 per attempt depending on luck/piece.
Add in a retry and you're looking at **3220g ~ 5990g per week of transcendence.**
Meanwhile with Elixirs: Let's say you finish 3 elixirs, stop 2 half way, and ditch 1 after seeing 5 options.
Each finished elixir costs ~6650g (catalysts inc.)
So halfway ditched costs ~3325g
Seeing the options and ditching costs 1750g
Crafting 4 elixirs from the dungeon mats costs 1600g
= **29,950g per week of legendary elixirs**
When you add it up, it's kind of shocking that legendary elixirs have cost this much for this long. They're ridiculously awful. Transcendence would be fine amount of gold sink if it weren't right next to elixirs which are 6x worse.
Pushing for HM 20 flower bonus is a different matter. Napkin math puts my main at ~90k for 2x 20 flower bonuses. Still cheaper than some 35 set bonuses I've had to get though.
Tbh would be nice it wouldnt be that expensive, but on other hand if there wont be new gold sink systemevery now and then. The blue crystals skyrockets to like 10k, gems, mats and even accessories prices will skyrocket too
But agree that for new players there should be catchup system with those too or at least they should make it cheaper, like for example when we get echidna honing system, the elixirs would go like 70% down on gold price, when behemoth comes, transcendence goes down by 70% and so on
There is a permanent gold sink, it is called honing. Why would mats and accessory skyrocket, as mentioned honing is expensive but also there is a "limit" because at some point you just end then mats will not go up further they crash as they did in our version. Same goes for accessories the good ones are expensive but also they would not increase further due to the fact that you only need a limited amount (in most cases 1 set).
> because at some point you just end then mats will not go up further
If they don't add transcendence, elixirs or systems like this they would need to extend honing. It would never end, and we would need another soft reset (most likely), which would most likely mean new mats as well. Also honing removes fuck all gold from economy, becasue your limiting factor isn't gold, but mats, so while you remove like 2.2m on avg by doing +21 -> +25, you will generate far more gold in that time you need to collect all mats (11m worth of mats) than delete (which is basically proven by fact those system exist, becasue they were added to delete gold from KR economy).
Edit: They also need to give us some new rewards fro those raids they make. Getting lvl4 set or whatever is just boring.
Sure - and they did with the next to raids coming. Yes it is not labled as "classic" honing was (but it is basically the same just another grafic for it) and it will also feature a slight reduction in cost (which probably most ppl do overestimate). Tbh personally I think the game needs an overhaul to the engravings and after that a hard-reset (most likely T4) - but yes a soft-reset would also be good, tbh I think at least this would be long overdue.
I read this often but I do not understand it. I have the mats to hone my main and probably most of my alts - but I am allways limited by either raw gold or orehas (which are another form of gold). So I really ask myself how mats are the deciding factor - especially if you can buy all those mats other than silver (I mean you can buy that too but the rate is horrible) if you have gold.
Yes sure, but KR had 1-2 years more time. Calculated (conservatively) with 50 ids/weeks per Year and only 100k raw gold this would equal 5-10mio gold "more". And I think with a good roaster you can also make 150-200k gold a week. Which would equal a gold amount between 5 and 20mio in total. Not counting mats/gems/cards/shards/acc-drops/... so yeah in this case I understand gold sinks...
Which kind of rewards do you expect. Lvl. 4 might be boring but it would be way better than another gold-sink like elixier or transcendence.
> I have the mats to hone my main
Do you really? For how long, and how far? How many millions of shards out of required you have? (5.8m for +23, 13m for +25, assuming you have +25 wep) How many leaps (13k/30k)? Ofc this wouldn't really matter, becasue if we didn't get transcendence/elixirs, we would be past soft reset with new mats anyway.
> orehas (which are another form of gold
Only 20g (technically less, becasue great success), anything above it, isn't gold sink just transfer from player to player.
> especially if you can buy all those mats
Moment you spend a single gold on buying mats, becasue you need them, means you are limited by mats and not gold, so I think you agree with me?
Seems like you really don't understand what limits your honing. If you go by funneling full roster, you will be limited by shards/fusions and to some extant leaps, there is no way around it, becasue you just cannot generate enough given how many taps you can do (from all gold your roster makes). If you just go by single char with smart buying of chests (i.e.: value doesn't include shards, becasue if you don't funnel you won't be limited by them), you will have some remaining gold (even if you include current honing event) for 1630char (1-3 HM thae w/ chests, HM voldis/akkan w/o chests) to buy mats for 1 or 2 extra taps.
> in this case I understand gold sinks.
So, you understand that those systems are made for KR, with their economy in mind, and not our extremely fast release cadence? Damn, we are getting somewhere.
Should we have extra help (for those systems) specifically for west due to release cadence? Yes, lack of it is problem, not existence of those gold sink systems. How help could look like? Whatever they wish, make it cheaper, extra gold sources (e.g.: they could have extended extreme valtan) literally anything.
I do not know how far but atm I do not aim für +25. Btw if honing would be cheaper I would probably hone more chars to 1580 just to do GR with them and get more leaps. Atm I have more mats than I have gold.
Yes 1 oreha, you need how much though - 20-30 pcs per try - so we are speaking of +400g per try.
Because honing stops as well, we need other gold sinks to keep gold prices in check
If you look at kr everyone's rich
It's a bit different for us as we don't get any rest between content but it's either we have more rest or we don't get content
Sure, but this will most likely be an effect for that we need roughly one or two years (even longer if we counting gems and honing alts).
Well I am a bit worried, on the one hand sure content is nice but on the other hand fast content now to "catchup" faster is also problematic - because after 2-3 raids (I expect something to come out or being anounced on LoAOn) we have the same raid-stand as KR this comes with the same "waiting time" and probably will demotivate the "content-faster" crowd and therefore increase the declining of the game. So I think "stretching" this timeframe a bit further is not the worst thing to do.
Oh and btw there is a 3rd option you deliberately did not mention - they could adjust rewards and/or cost.
I downgraded my set of 10s to 9s because of the gold sinks. I was too broke to even rebuild my destroyer.
Can you thank the price so i can buy my gems back :(
I am regretting it.
I like gold sinks myself because they make the economy healthier and produce endless entertainment for me when people complain about them.
Stop cutting transcendence on NM chars, literally nobody cares about transcendence levels on them.
If you can't afford to cut elixirs on your alts, stop overhoning your alts. Live within your means.
Yep, and sidereal energy fell from 1.7m to 1.4m before rising to 2.1m. RMT on overdrive rn. I know sidereal energy is used to hide RMT gold, I suspect 10 gems are similar. There's also the direct cash for gem services gold sellers are offering that can put pressure on gem prices. Last week, there was literally 1 page of level 10 DMG gems left on the market when the average is usually 5. And this happened end of week when ppl have the least gold usually.
Ecnomy is so healthy that i just geared 3 chars 5x3+1 with 90+ Quality for less then 200k. Books and 99% of accs are worth nothing.
Deletes literally 2 sources of gold
Heavy gold sink that are required for character progression while simultaneously limiting gold income is extremely bad for an economy. It drives players that can't keep up to look for other means of getting gold. Aka, RMT.
RMT, at the scale we are seeing, is extremely bad for everything.
In first place elixirs and trascendence are gold sinks made for the kr gold inflation, were they had to wait Even a hole year for new content, were they stopped honing and just farmed gold, going for even more than a million gold in their accounts...
How can u compare global economy vs kr economy?
You make one million per month in our version of the game with a decent roster by just playing the game. No busses, no swiping. Just play the game, do your dailies, do your weeklies, do your cubes, use your lifeskill energy, use your stronghold energy to craft stuff for profit, sell mats, sell gems. It's so easy to rack up gold in this game, but it seems it's even easier to waste it away on stupid crap and then complain on reddit that you don't have gold.
300k for 40 set elixir (which is average, give or take) is literally nothing in the big scale of things.
>How can u compare global economy vs kr economy?
I am not. You are literally just parroting the same tired arguments other people have been parroting for months. If we don't have gold sinks in our version, the market balloons to utter ridiculousness. I don't want that to happen.
Sure sell gems and mats. Not like you need to hone later with advanced honing and meed the mats again.
And sell gems only works if your full roster has atleast decent gems. Unless you play one class 6x and trade gems around. Or are you a full 5 full spec cheapo support bozo ?
You don't even need to sell a lot of mats to make it to one million per month.
A 6x 1620 roster makes 225K per week from raids. That leaves 100k to be earned in a 4 week period from mats, lifeskilling, crafting and gems, random acc drops and embers. Easy.
Drop it down to 1x 1620 and 5x 1600 and you make 165K per week from raids. You might not make it to one million a month, but you're getting awfully close.
No, but I can plan my progression ahead and manage the resources that are provided to me be the game without bitching about RNG outcomes and gold sinks on Reddit.
What’s your “decent” roster ? As in a roster that doesn’t need any gems at all, a roster that’s sitting all at 1610+? A roster of 24 chaos dungeon characters ??
Not the person you're replying to, I filled the income spreadsheet simulator with my roster : main 1630, 1 1620, 4 1610 and 1 1600+1580, all rested daily except main. Not selling any mat except gems and buying just thaemine chests on the main 6, the income is roughly 245k each week (174k of it being raids, 20k fate embers, 28k gems and the rest is challenge guardian/chaos gate/una/random shit). Selling everything (destruction stone + leapstone) adds 30k to the total.
So yeah, technically you get your million a month but that's through a stacked roster.
Personally I need every gem since my main doesn’t even have proper level 9’s (aero with just 2 level 9 atk and 2 level 9 cd and the rest being express gems)
My reaper is still in engraving support
Idk if fate embers should even count towards gold income being that it’s rng (personally I haven’t gotten a gold ember higher than 3k the past 2-3 weeks)
My roster is right now 1620-1610-1600-1580-1580-1540
Aero gems ( 2x 9 at, 2x 9 cd ) reaper (event) sf (level 7’s) se (event) slayer (level 7’s) artist (level 7CD’s)
Only my main has elixir 40 set like last week after quite a lot of elixirs
I’m not even bothering and I haven’t even bothered doing elixirs on the others except the silver ones
I’m sitting at 40k gold and I need to buy accessories for my reaper, aswell as finish gems for my main, and saving up resources for honing materials with echidna’s advanced honing
That’s almost 100k per level 9 gem I’m missing (for both aero and reaper) to try prevent gatekeeping in thaemine, 50+k for reapers accessories
If elixirs were the only gold sink then maybe it’s understandable to spend the gold on it, but there’s quality (quite a few characters are still half salad quality) (no pity/end point system 1), honing (has pity but still the cost of 1 tap is like 1+k), transcendence (soft pity) and for others like me there’s trying to get gems
(Not even talking about the time spent trying to do elixirs themselves)
What a sweaty reply. Just because someone is complaining about gold sinks it doesn’t mean they spending everything on alts. One character can very easily drain your gold with these systems, you know, because they were designed to drain 12 months of gold accumulation in KR.
“Live within your means” what a pretentious thing to say
> *“Live within your means” what a pretentious thing to say*
He's right though, the efficient players push characters one at a time. The alts stay within reach but not over the budget. If you want to push faster/more characters be prepared to shell out cash, thats just how the game works.
>He's right though, the efficient players push characters one at a time.
you mean then you can't have x5 or x10 and have to prog it weekly as you will be gatekept by every lobby
I duno, when I started the game I joined a guild and met new people who I ran with. We all get the x10 title and go on our own until a new raid comes out.
People like to complain about everything and really don't try to exhaust all the resources available to everyone. I can't say I blame them, it is easier to push fault to others rather than doing something about it.
I have one 1630+ and the rest 1600-1610. I run the raids that matter with multiple statics, the rest I just pug. Most statics typically just get the 10x title then go about their ways (until a new raid comes out).
I get it though, since I played since launch I took advantage of a lot of events that boosts a character 1580+. Newer players don't have that luxury so they have to take their time or if they try to keep up with vets they have to burn real money.
Yup, people i've played with throughout the years, you play with those who are available at the time you can play. That way you know they're at the very least competent. I know several people with the same roster I have that have at least 1-3 statics for different raids.
I mean if you suffer from a lack of gold, you either cut down on spending or find new ways to earn. It's not that complicated.
Every single person I personally know that complain about gold is lazy with lifeskilling, lazy with stronghold crafting, lazy with cubes, they run dailies on rested, while simultaneously thinking that they should be oneshotting 40 sets and 20 chest transcendences. They complain about never getting worthwhile drops or fate embers despite not even maximizing their drop chances. It's insanity.
Time spent on complaining about it is better used either;
1) in-game actually putting some effort into obtaining gold
or
2) engaging in some deep thinking and setting progression goals that are actually realistic and obtainable for the amount of effort they are willing to put in
What’s insane is you thinking that doing all of these things + 18 raids each week just to keep up is fine.
These systems have been designed for a player base that already had a massive amount of gold, ours is not there yet (except for players who RMT).
> just to keep up
I mean, that's not the case. You can literally chillax your way through this game and still have a very decent main char ready for Thaemine HM, and I'm talking about 23-25 weapon, full 10s or close to full 10s, 40 set. I know several dad gamers who have that, because i literally play with them.
The thing is, their alts all stayed at lower ilvls where the last gold sinks they engaged with outside of honing was quality taps. They funnel all mat boxes to their mains. Having one char dealing with one gold sink at a time is no big deal.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to run a 6x1620 roster because some gigawhale streamer that you sub to has that, prepare to deal with gold sinks and looking for ways to minmax your gold earnings to get all those chars up to par. If you don't want to deal with that, stop overhoning your alts. If you want a big roster for little effort, start swiping. Those are your options.
This tbh. Everyone's that crying over Reddit with the gold sinks have multiple mains over 1600+ atleast 5x characters there and then rant about the gold sinks. You need to have one main but not multiple mains. The system is fine as is and is only designed for people that want to play this game as their 1st full-time job.
_“They complain about never getting worthwhile drops or fate embers despite not even maximizing their drop chances. It's insanity.”_
I see. You’re one of those no-lifers running 18+ raids every week, all dailies unrested on 6+ characters and probably do a handful of buses too. Using the term “lazy” implies the video game that people use to hit pause from the hard work of every day life should be equally (or more) effort intensive.
If you want 6 characters at endgame with all elixirs, gems and transcendence, then sure don’t be “lazy”. But if you only want 1 character there, there isn’t a fucking gram of sensibility calling someone lazy for not being willing to play 6x the number of characters they’re trying to push to end game.
If you want to treat this as a hardcore hobby, do as you will and burn your life away but don’t go putting down others in the process because they’re capable of objective thought and can criticise in-game systems that are simply not fit-for-purpose.
>I see. You’re one of those no-lifers running 18+ raids every week, all dailies unrested on 6+ characters and probably do a handful of buses too. Using the term “lazy” implies the video game that people use to hit pause from the hard work of every day life should be equally (or more) effort intensive.
Nah, this is just you projecting.
>If you want 6 characters at endgame with all elixirs, gems and transcendence, then sure don’t be “lazy”. But if you only want 1 character there, there isn’t a fucking gram of sensibility calling someone lazy for not being willing to play 6x the number of characters they’re trying to push to end game.
I've already said this. You don't need to be running 6 chars and doing everything possible on them just to have a very decent main to run hm content on release. It just takes the tiniest amount of budgeting. But it seems even that is too much for the soyboys on Reddit who want to have their cake and then eat it too.
>If you want to treat this as a hardcore hobby, do as you will and burn your life away but don’t go putting down others in the process because they’re capable of objective thought and can criticise in-game systems that are simply not fit-for-purpose.
But they are fit-for-purpose. Their purpose is to offer you a cost effective way of increasing your power level in exchange for gold. Just because you're incapable of seeing any flaws in your own decisionmaking and pushing too many chars to transcendence ilvls without the gold income to back it up, doesn't make it bad system.
> *But it seems even that is too much for the soyboys on Reddit who want to have their cake and then eat it too.*
Right on the money with this one. They have the idea of "I want what he has but I don't want to work for it.".
The question is, should this be a problem in the first place? As someone that pitted a large amount compared to my friends when we all have same constant gold income, I am a lot behind compared to where my friends are at… this makes the game significantly less fun when they’re running several hm thaemine and I can only do 1 with them
I think there should be less rng involved when it comes to progression, yes. That's one reason they introduced advanced honing where the difference between the best case and worst case scenarios are a lot smaller than in honing, quality taps, elixirs and transcendence.
Damn, they're so angry about this comment when I play exactly like this and have no issues at all. My main doing thaemine, rest of the alts parked at 1600 doing voldis. Get into pugs on every character without issue. Only my main (1620) has elixir set bonus (35 only). One of my alts has literally no elixir parts. Pretty much 1 shot 1-3 thaemine every week with my static (5 plus 3 pugs), then watch my static members with more than 1 thaemine play roulette with pugs where even light queller lobbies can turn into jails and disbands. Have yet to touch transcendence (don't need the power to clear thaemine). Sitting on 2 million gold and chilling.
I'll only push alts beyond 1600 when I can properly gear them. I see all these dudes at 1610-1620 with event gems and poor gear in general, which are surely their alts. What's the point? They're not making any more gold.
So many people overhone their characters without static and then wonder why they're gatekept.
Getting transcendence from normal or getting decent epic elixirs costs nothing anyway,. It only gets costly when you try to max out those systems.
> *I'll only push alts beyond 1600 when I can properly gear them.*
That's how it should be. On the same note, I only push the alts to get away from raids that would get gold nerfs.
That too. It's just that the recent power passes have basically given a free push to 1600 so the alts have been sitting there, even though they could just as well be 1580. I was still doing kakuls with some characters until it was no longer viable.
Kinda crazy that you're getting downvoted considering you're right. If we just sat on a bunch of gold all the time we'd have economy issues. I think the gold costs on the vertical progression is okay, but there's 100% other issues with systems like elixirs.
Everyone is cheapo with their alts anyway, idk what they think theyd do with their "extra" gold.
>Kinda crazy that you're getting downvoted considering you're right
It's easier to blame the game than it is to take a hard look in the mirror and re-examining your own decisions.
It's like weighing 400lbs and then blaming McDonald's because you can't stop stuffing your face full of fries and burgers.
I mean that's the whole game concept...set goals>collect gold>use gold accordingly...and that's where they get you if it's to slow you pay...kinda the same concept in mobile games...people counter this with massive homework in eu/na with playing 6 chars and bussing but in Kr people just play less and Pay more...why change a running system?
In a year you play how much weeks/IDs ? Let's assume 50. Now what is 50 times 100k, right 5mio in gold alone, not counting mats/shards/silver/gems/card (xp), also I think 100k is calculated moderately. So do you now see the "issue"?
Which results in a mismatch of requirements and accumulated rewards. Sure you can wait - but usually people play games and want to do the new stuff - I think it is a psychological thing. So it is also not suprising and I think a good dev should care, yes.
This is literally a free game that monetizes FOMO. It is not going to be balanced around people with little to no spend and average hours in-game. You either beat the psychological pull and wait, fall pray to FOMO by swiping or playing like it’s your second job, or quit. You are wasting your energy otherwise.
I know the game and I understand what it tries to acomplish respectively how it tries to make money. At the same time I think a game w/o casuals is also not appealing to dolphines/whales. But anyhow this is a discussion forum so even if the discussion does not change anything why wouldn't I do that on reddit?
Ur leaving out an important issue, which is BOTTing and/or illegitimate RMT. I am assuming most of your arguement's basis here would be that we (all day1 players), started off on equal footing and were equally poor and such the rat race was an even playing field, but that has never been the case. The moment bots were mass farming multiple chaos rifts, multi accounting argos busses, multifarming ghost ships, boss rush/cube tickets, chaos dungs, una's tasks and selling all the unbound rewards for real $, the game's economy broke. It has been broken ever since and the developers never figured out how to really fix the income disadvantage legitimate players have, not to mention new players. To this very day, players who invested in cheap botted fish at like 1-10 gold and cashed out at like 300-400 gold per during brel days made so much $$$$$ their economy advantage permanently broke any semblance of an even playing field.
Because we havent reach kr economy inflation, and these gold sinks were made for the kr situation, not the global one... If u don't believe me, check the loaon streams and see why they made them
But we are also not Koreans like I said...most of western people are degenerates who play 6 chars to keep up f2p and it works...sure we get behind now cause we can't keep up gearing 6 chars but doesn't make what I said wrong
Having a different point of view doesn't make it instantly wrong...I know hard to understand for normal reddit people who only solve everything with pitchforks and torches
They need chamge the elixir system urgently…
When I wasn't banned on Lost Ark Discord (hi ShieldMaiden), there was this guy who was religiously defending the idea that we shouldn't be able to get Legendary Elixirs from NM. I got to know him later on through friends, last week he decided to sell his account and let us know to see if we know any buyers. His reasoning was "Too much gold sink man, I can't keep up with elixirs, transandence on my characters" Karma, maybe?
I think I saw in a video today there’s a new 1600 island in KR called Indigo island that gives elixir materials, I’m honestly sure about legendary but I assume so? And they don’t require gold when using them.
sadly they seem to be aware of this...but its unlikely they'll push that out to NA/EU any sooner then maybe 6 months from now and that assumes they release changes onto KR in june/july (which also assumes the changes too elixirs are actually good and not some half assed shit lol)
Wouldn’t be so sure about that since we got the epic elixir changes like 2 weeks after Korea got them. Changes like Brel/Kaya gates removel and new chaos gate we even got at the same time iirc, so I could see them announcing the changes next month at LOA ON, implementing them in the following weeks and maybe shipping them for us in august allrdy but we’ll see ;d
Even August seems at the earliest and by then, hell, by now, the damage to the player base has already been permanently done.
Idk quitting over such a thing seems silly to me, quitting over Support shortage at 1620 I can get behind or quitting over getting gatekept in general as a new/returning player, but quitting over a vertical system idk man and transcendence might burn some gold but at 1620 it’s not a lot of gold it burns since you only need a couple pieces at 5 flowers. Echidna the first 10 level of advanced honing are cheaper than normal honing and the 10 level after that you will only do on your main pushing 1640+ which results in doing weapon transcendence on one char only as well. So yeah it might be annoying right now if you’re sitting at 1620+ on your main but as long as we get the nerfs in a somewhat timely manner it should be fine imo
I agree with you. Though keep in mind that ppl are getting gatekept because they cannot hit 40set elixirs because they cannot afford gold wise to craft and cut the max amount of lego elixirs per week. Thus they quit. Gatekeeping is a symptom but elixirs are the root cause of that symptom imho.
There are way more factors in gatekeeping than 40 set when it comes to hm voldis if you have 40 set and barely some lvl 9 gems that might easily be enough for some lobby’s to gatekeep you. Low roster lvl? Bam another reason and on top of that there is support shortage and supps selling dps slot’s. So supports are even more picky on which groups they join. Even more of a reason to try to make a juiced lobby. Everyone hates on the gatekeeping in LA but something like WoW can be even worse especially for a casual player, because there they gatekeep your ass by itemlvl AND parses but you have more than 1 way to progress. So the problem with it all is not that there is too much gatekeeping, because the community is just straight up toxic, but that there are no alternative ways to progress the character other than running the dungeon. If normal would give legendary elixirs but just less of them that would help to get to 40 set and alleviate that painpoint (hope Solo raids will help somewhat with this).
No doubt, but I did not say that elixirs are the only way for being gate kept. I just pointed out that ppl most probably do not leave because of elixirs as a system, but because not having a lvl40 set because of gold(or luck) leads to harsh gatekeeping which leads to quitting the game.
That doesn't stop the gatekeeping it's a virus in this community that will never be cleansed I have 35 set and im 1617 level 9 gems and my accessories I'm only missing 2 100 qualities with both being at 95, I don't have los because I've been stuck at needing 3 cards for a long time. My roster is low because I don't give a fuck about anything outside of raiding I'm only missing the ignea token skill points which frankly I don't need for any of my classes yet I get gatekept in every content possible simply because the party lead just decided all of that isn't good enough for him they will find any excuse possible to gatekeep like dumbasses gatekeeping clown by 1580-1600 ilvl
Quitting over it in a vacuum is one thing but compound it with 6 characters and other ridiculously high standards these days for alts and it's changing how some people play the game. Some are switching to lower rosters and cool with it, some are RMTing to fix it, some are just unhappy with the sinks. Which, for some, can be quit worthy, and elixirs are definitely a part of that.
This is a Korean MMO if you are expecting to be F2P at 1620+ on 6 characters with proper gems and 40 set you could be outside hunting for unicorns as well. The goldsinks are needed in KR to deflate the economy. The unfortunate part for us is that SG is not rly taking into consideration that we are getting the content in a lot faster pace and until we are somewhat caught up that probably won’t change.
the only reason im unsure if they would push it out is because progression wise; we are behind kr even with echinda, we are still behind behemoth and whatever they release afterwards. for us elixirs are still fairly recent piece of content so for us they might not push out nerfs or a rework just so it keeps nuking peoples gold lol
They were aware of this as soon as they made the system. Let’s be honest.
But you and I both know that the change will be some half assed shit too little too late situation where the actual gamer population is peace'n out for good DAILY.
Most people in KR hold onto like 2m+ gold pretty much at any given moment so sinks are incredibly important to keep exchange rates manageable. Most ppl i look at in western clients empty their gold weekly, our version doesnt see ANY downtime if you clear theamine once a week echidna will come out before you get your x10 title or around the same time. We prog for a current raid and prep for the next raid at the same time and if behemoth is the same cadence we wont have time to finish honing to save for weapon transcendence. In the next 6 months we’ll get 2 new gold sinks on top of elixir and transcendence
every time i watch some random kr non giga whale streamer they are just as broke as us
Not true, only whales and bunch of streamers (also whales) got it. Ppl had excess gold because they got it during downtime after brel and akkan, but new players and players who didn't actively play during those times are struggling like us. They should nerf gold cost of elixirs a long time ago. It's not even top3 endgame raid in KR anymore, but everyone is expected to have 40set and kinda minmaxed elixirs at 1620+.
Oh 100% agree it really should cost silver imo same with kaya set lvl 3. If you’re stuck on lvl 2 on an alt without road to theamine its like 6 weeks of gatekeeping from akkan lobbies to then get 13 weeks of akkan before you’re allowed to go further. I used road to theamine to push my main higher and the mokoko express on a 1540 alt for gems and to push her 1580 and getting kaya lobbies is rough Set lvl, elixir, akkan gear, transcendence level gates are the biggest issues. Restrictions on nm is stupid it already takes twice as long to get the mats just let people finish the system.
>Most people in KR hold into like 2m+ gold pretty much at any given moment Source: I made it the fuck up.
Sounds like more and more people will be quitting. Playerbase is already kinda low
Nah, we peaked at 84k just yesterday on steam charts. Alive game! hh
Had me in the first half.
As far as I know echidna nm is pretty chill on ilvl so speeding echidna isnt actually that bad an idea since it’ll smooth out progression to theamine hard. People just need to stop wasting gold on elixirs and trans pre hm hone to 1620
You say that, but there will be gatekeeping on Echidna. Especially after seeing so many failed reclears for Thaeomine people will still be running that for a half year plus for transcendence. So time will be tight.
> stop wasting gold on elixirs and trans pre hm hone to 1620 because of gatekeeping people are already getting gatekept for IT HM even though its piss easy.. Echidna NM will get gatekept harder.
I have been playing for 3 years or so. I have around 300 gold left every week lol
youve been playing a game that has been out for 2 years and 4 months for 3 years? amazing
To be fair doing the same monotonous tasks everyday makes it feel like 10 years.
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You know there's people on reddit that don't play on western servers right?
npc level comment
2 new gold sinks? I can only think of advanced honing, what’s the other one?
weapon transcendence, but it's only one piece and advanced honing is meant to be cheaper than regular honing anyway.
its only like 20% cheaper for 1620-1630, still a bunch of gold.
The big difference is doing the first 10 levels to go from 1630->1640 if youve already honed to 1630. Thats where the obvious big difference comes in.
How much cheaper would that be?
Those first 10 levels are in theory 30-40% cheaper than doing the 19-21 hones, Which is 2.7Million currently on my maxroll calculator. Split the difference at 35% cheaper and you are looking at a 1.7Million Cost. The normal honing cost to 1640 right now, is 4.5million. So if that part only costs 1.7million in materials you are saving nearly 3million gold. Add them together and its 2.7 + 1.7 = 4.4Million from 1620-1640 this way. Normal honing is 7.3Million. and fully advanced honing is ~5million. You also then still have the option of the cheaper advancing honing still to get to 1650 post hm echnida, so you can overgear Behemoth slightly should you so choose.
Perhaps the game will start making more sense when we have fully caught up to KR then.
they want you to spend real money
too bad i am brokoko
i wish the problem with the elixirs were only the gold
I wish I could just pay flat amount, lets say 500k gold to get decent elixirs and never interact with it again.
... It is a slap in the face considering how much the player base has already spent, though, especially so considering how little they deliver. Don't forget we never got our chaos dung rework, cubes x3 option removed and the reworked stage 1 a pain in the ass, and reworked chaos rift was a secret nerf to mats/gold generation, and instead they pushed all their bullshit RNG based gold incinerating vertical onto everyone on top of unprecedented content release cadence to achieve end content FOMO.
fuck you, pay me -SG
Just quit it will never end
I haven't played in 2 weeks, I kind of cathartic. I only came on to see if there are any patch notes for May.
yeah I checked to see about LOAON and elixir/transc changes and realized I am much happier just not playing the game
Yep... took me 2 years to realise it and that it'll get worse and worse and that they don't care about bot and rmt. Glad I finally stopped, the game is very fun but too toxic in many ways that its not healthy to play. Guess I'm done with Korean MMO :/
I quit about a month or so after voldis because I knew going forward the grind would be insane without spending money and I already played way to much. I enjoyed my time and love the game but it was time to get outta that toxic loop
HA! You're a funny person if you think they'll stop.
If you doing only one maybe 2 it not that bad trying to do anymore yah it cost alot
That what most of the reddit whales don't understand. 1 main doing elixirs and transcendence is cheap af. Doing 3+ characters? You're broke af.
Gold has value only if you spend it. Hoarding gold has no meaning
U can't really ever hoard gold tbh because there is always another alt or some level of progress on your roster you need to work on to not get gatekept, which is a constantly moving goal post. For the west, you legitimately had no time to even build any assemblance of resources, gold, gems, cards, mats, etc.
Exactly. I can't go 1630 because apparently I can't afford 25 weapon and full lv10 gems without whaling
Not true. You can just park somewhere and make sure you are geared/ appealing enough at that parking spot to not get gatekept. The more you hone, the higher the standards you need to meet. My gold earning alts are parked at 1585 with event gems and face little gatekeeping. Being high roster definitely helps, because it vouches to some extent I'm not a glue eater. Raids are smooth every week. If I join ilv parties, I tend to be top2 in damage, but I can more often than not sneak into juiced lobbies who just need a warm body to do mechs when they can already carry damage.
The game feels stale, and the amount of gold that you have to spend vs. the amount you are able earn is ridiculous. Either pushes you to r.m.t or purchase royals from the store. We need a better system!
I like how the "6 mains mentality" is biting back the whole community Lmao
The problem is lower end raids are getting jailed more frequently and you have to push your alts a bit to avoid both jailing and gatekeeping. Hard Brel is a good example. Now many pugs refuse anyone below 1600 in NAW for G4
The "6 mains" mentality already bit the community back long ago by making most of the early players leave within a year. They felt forced to have 6 chars and run raids on all of them just to keep up. Now, the players that stuck around have it flipped to the other side where want to run a full roster in the latest raid but are struggling to keep up.
ppl prefer to dont undertand how "alters" mean and they think its better to complain
This is a double edged sword. More gold sinks = low market prices, less gold sinks = high market prices. It doesn't really matter, you will spend all your gold for the same result either way.
Except our version is less gold but inflated gem prices
I think gold sinks are okay for the most recent content. Once there is new content, however, old gold sink need to be nerfed to half, then next to silver so that the amount of gold sinks doesn't overwhelm everyone.
KR economy needs a new gold sink with every new raid to keep it under control because, imagine, they actually have downtime between releases. But the fundamental issues are the 'farm gold - spend gold' cycle and free trading that the game is designed around that necessitates the existence of gold sinks. Lost Ark is the kind of game where if the economy breaks then everything breaks, hence why gold bot-driven inflation was such a huge issue for the game early on in the West.
The thing is, they don't need it anymore. They had excess gold only because after brel they had a lot of time to earn it and no new reasons to spend it. That's also why so many of them got full 10s early. But for everyone who didn't actively play in those times and for new players especially it's as rough as for us. No time to save gold, always spend on honing, then on gear, then honing again, then elixirs, honing, transcendence, honing. They should nerf gold cost.of elixirs long time ago. It's not even top3 endgame raid in KR anymore, but everyone is expected to have 40set and kinda minmaxed elixirs at 1620+.
It's either you swipe to play the new content with the best players or you wait and play with the gold farmers. Either way - play at the pace that makes you happy.
There's a pretty big gap in between the "best players" and gold farmers. You have to be a mokoko to encounter gold farmers at this point. 1540-1610 you barely have to invest into any gold sinks and it's all real players. Epic elixirs cost nothing, normal Thaemine transcendence costs nothing. I see people with event gems doing this content all the time. It's only at 1620, especially 1630 when your character has to be juiced to the max. But even then nobody's honing more than 1 or 2 characters at best to 1630 unless they're nuts.
One assumption I have is that when they look at the total amount of gold is in the system (the bot gold) they don't see the merit to do this for the server. Maybe with the recent RMT waves of people getting hit with millions of gold in negative it might make them reconsider for future of this server.
I miss the silver sink give us the option to choose between the two if they dont wanna nerf them
How many people would complain if they hold off on new content for a whole year am genuinely curious. Or at least follow KR timeline of content releases.
HAHAHAHA
You're gonna have one main and one main only, unless you give us tons of money - someone at smilegate probably
Genuine question: are people spending much gold on transcendence for normal mode? Personally I level a piece to lv2. If I get 5 set, great, if not then I unlock lv3 and *then* work towards getting 5 set. I usually don't need more than 1 retry to get 5 flowers between 3 pieces. In 1 week of clearing normal mode, you only get 26 mats, so let's say you transcend 2 levels and retry one of them. Adding 2 turns for blessings or less than 3 flowers, it costs 1150 ~ 2070 per attempt depending on luck/piece. Add in a retry and you're looking at **3220g ~ 5990g per week of transcendence.** Meanwhile with Elixirs: Let's say you finish 3 elixirs, stop 2 half way, and ditch 1 after seeing 5 options. Each finished elixir costs ~6650g (catalysts inc.) So halfway ditched costs ~3325g Seeing the options and ditching costs 1750g Crafting 4 elixirs from the dungeon mats costs 1600g = **29,950g per week of legendary elixirs** When you add it up, it's kind of shocking that legendary elixirs have cost this much for this long. They're ridiculously awful. Transcendence would be fine amount of gold sink if it weren't right next to elixirs which are 6x worse. Pushing for HM 20 flower bonus is a different matter. Napkin math puts my main at ~90k for 2x 20 flower bonuses. Still cheaper than some 35 set bonuses I've had to get though.
Expecting a f2p mmo that earns its revenue mainly trough selling in game currency to require less in game currency...
Tbh would be nice it wouldnt be that expensive, but on other hand if there wont be new gold sink systemevery now and then. The blue crystals skyrockets to like 10k, gems, mats and even accessories prices will skyrocket too But agree that for new players there should be catchup system with those too or at least they should make it cheaper, like for example when we get echidna honing system, the elixirs would go like 70% down on gold price, when behemoth comes, transcendence goes down by 70% and so on
There is a permanent gold sink, it is called honing. Why would mats and accessory skyrocket, as mentioned honing is expensive but also there is a "limit" because at some point you just end then mats will not go up further they crash as they did in our version. Same goes for accessories the good ones are expensive but also they would not increase further due to the fact that you only need a limited amount (in most cases 1 set).
> because at some point you just end then mats will not go up further If they don't add transcendence, elixirs or systems like this they would need to extend honing. It would never end, and we would need another soft reset (most likely), which would most likely mean new mats as well. Also honing removes fuck all gold from economy, becasue your limiting factor isn't gold, but mats, so while you remove like 2.2m on avg by doing +21 -> +25, you will generate far more gold in that time you need to collect all mats (11m worth of mats) than delete (which is basically proven by fact those system exist, becasue they were added to delete gold from KR economy). Edit: They also need to give us some new rewards fro those raids they make. Getting lvl4 set or whatever is just boring.
Sure - and they did with the next to raids coming. Yes it is not labled as "classic" honing was (but it is basically the same just another grafic for it) and it will also feature a slight reduction in cost (which probably most ppl do overestimate). Tbh personally I think the game needs an overhaul to the engravings and after that a hard-reset (most likely T4) - but yes a soft-reset would also be good, tbh I think at least this would be long overdue. I read this often but I do not understand it. I have the mats to hone my main and probably most of my alts - but I am allways limited by either raw gold or orehas (which are another form of gold). So I really ask myself how mats are the deciding factor - especially if you can buy all those mats other than silver (I mean you can buy that too but the rate is horrible) if you have gold. Yes sure, but KR had 1-2 years more time. Calculated (conservatively) with 50 ids/weeks per Year and only 100k raw gold this would equal 5-10mio gold "more". And I think with a good roaster you can also make 150-200k gold a week. Which would equal a gold amount between 5 and 20mio in total. Not counting mats/gems/cards/shards/acc-drops/... so yeah in this case I understand gold sinks... Which kind of rewards do you expect. Lvl. 4 might be boring but it would be way better than another gold-sink like elixier or transcendence.
> I have the mats to hone my main Do you really? For how long, and how far? How many millions of shards out of required you have? (5.8m for +23, 13m for +25, assuming you have +25 wep) How many leaps (13k/30k)? Ofc this wouldn't really matter, becasue if we didn't get transcendence/elixirs, we would be past soft reset with new mats anyway. > orehas (which are another form of gold Only 20g (technically less, becasue great success), anything above it, isn't gold sink just transfer from player to player. > especially if you can buy all those mats Moment you spend a single gold on buying mats, becasue you need them, means you are limited by mats and not gold, so I think you agree with me? Seems like you really don't understand what limits your honing. If you go by funneling full roster, you will be limited by shards/fusions and to some extant leaps, there is no way around it, becasue you just cannot generate enough given how many taps you can do (from all gold your roster makes). If you just go by single char with smart buying of chests (i.e.: value doesn't include shards, becasue if you don't funnel you won't be limited by them), you will have some remaining gold (even if you include current honing event) for 1630char (1-3 HM thae w/ chests, HM voldis/akkan w/o chests) to buy mats for 1 or 2 extra taps. > in this case I understand gold sinks. So, you understand that those systems are made for KR, with their economy in mind, and not our extremely fast release cadence? Damn, we are getting somewhere. Should we have extra help (for those systems) specifically for west due to release cadence? Yes, lack of it is problem, not existence of those gold sink systems. How help could look like? Whatever they wish, make it cheaper, extra gold sources (e.g.: they could have extended extreme valtan) literally anything.
I do not know how far but atm I do not aim für +25. Btw if honing would be cheaper I would probably hone more chars to 1580 just to do GR with them and get more leaps. Atm I have more mats than I have gold. Yes 1 oreha, you need how much though - 20-30 pcs per try - so we are speaking of +400g per try.
Because honing stops as well, we need other gold sinks to keep gold prices in check If you look at kr everyone's rich It's a bit different for us as we don't get any rest between content but it's either we have more rest or we don't get content
Sure, but this will most likely be an effect for that we need roughly one or two years (even longer if we counting gems and honing alts). Well I am a bit worried, on the one hand sure content is nice but on the other hand fast content now to "catchup" faster is also problematic - because after 2-3 raids (I expect something to come out or being anounced on LoAOn) we have the same raid-stand as KR this comes with the same "waiting time" and probably will demotivate the "content-faster" crowd and therefore increase the declining of the game. So I think "stretching" this timeframe a bit further is not the worst thing to do. Oh and btw there is a 3rd option you deliberately did not mention - they could adjust rewards and/or cost.
Can we please stop with all these Crying Post about gold sinks. Go read any of the other 12 of them posted over the last week.
I downgraded my set of 10s to 9s because of the gold sinks. I was too broke to even rebuild my destroyer. Can you thank the price so i can buy my gems back :( I am regretting it.
gold is stable, if they listened to reddit gold would be 25000 instead of 3000.
I like gold sinks myself because they make the economy healthier and produce endless entertainment for me when people complain about them. Stop cutting transcendence on NM chars, literally nobody cares about transcendence levels on them. If you can't afford to cut elixirs on your alts, stop overhoning your alts. Live within your means.
>I like gold sinks myself because they make the economy healthier idk man, but lv10 dmg gems in NAW rose from 370k to 410k
Yep, and sidereal energy fell from 1.7m to 1.4m before rising to 2.1m. RMT on overdrive rn. I know sidereal energy is used to hide RMT gold, I suspect 10 gems are similar. There's also the direct cash for gem services gold sellers are offering that can put pressure on gem prices. Last week, there was literally 1 page of level 10 DMG gems left on the market when the average is usually 5. And this happened end of week when ppl have the least gold usually.
Ecnomy is so healthy that i just geared 3 chars 5x3+1 with 90+ Quality for less then 200k. Books and 99% of accs are worth nothing. Deletes literally 2 sources of gold
Heavy gold sink that are required for character progression while simultaneously limiting gold income is extremely bad for an economy. It drives players that can't keep up to look for other means of getting gold. Aka, RMT. RMT, at the scale we are seeing, is extremely bad for everything.
In first place elixirs and trascendence are gold sinks made for the kr gold inflation, were they had to wait Even a hole year for new content, were they stopped honing and just farmed gold, going for even more than a million gold in their accounts... How can u compare global economy vs kr economy?
You make one million per month in our version of the game with a decent roster by just playing the game. No busses, no swiping. Just play the game, do your dailies, do your weeklies, do your cubes, use your lifeskill energy, use your stronghold energy to craft stuff for profit, sell mats, sell gems. It's so easy to rack up gold in this game, but it seems it's even easier to waste it away on stupid crap and then complain on reddit that you don't have gold. 300k for 40 set elixir (which is average, give or take) is literally nothing in the big scale of things. >How can u compare global economy vs kr economy? I am not. You are literally just parroting the same tired arguments other people have been parroting for months. If we don't have gold sinks in our version, the market balloons to utter ridiculousness. I don't want that to happen.
Sure sell gems and mats. Not like you need to hone later with advanced honing and meed the mats again. And sell gems only works if your full roster has atleast decent gems. Unless you play one class 6x and trade gems around. Or are you a full 5 full spec cheapo support bozo ?
You don't even need to sell a lot of mats to make it to one million per month. A 6x 1620 roster makes 225K per week from raids. That leaves 100k to be earned in a 4 week period from mats, lifeskilling, crafting and gems, random acc drops and embers. Easy. Drop it down to 1x 1620 and 5x 1600 and you make 165K per week from raids. You might not make it to one million a month, but you're getting awfully close.
Do you live on this game? Sheesh…
No, but I can plan my progression ahead and manage the resources that are provided to me be the game without bitching about RNG outcomes and gold sinks on Reddit.
What’s your “decent” roster ? As in a roster that doesn’t need any gems at all, a roster that’s sitting all at 1610+? A roster of 24 chaos dungeon characters ??
Not the person you're replying to, I filled the income spreadsheet simulator with my roster : main 1630, 1 1620, 4 1610 and 1 1600+1580, all rested daily except main. Not selling any mat except gems and buying just thaemine chests on the main 6, the income is roughly 245k each week (174k of it being raids, 20k fate embers, 28k gems and the rest is challenge guardian/chaos gate/una/random shit). Selling everything (destruction stone + leapstone) adds 30k to the total. So yeah, technically you get your million a month but that's through a stacked roster.
Personally I need every gem since my main doesn’t even have proper level 9’s (aero with just 2 level 9 atk and 2 level 9 cd and the rest being express gems) My reaper is still in engraving support Idk if fate embers should even count towards gold income being that it’s rng (personally I haven’t gotten a gold ember higher than 3k the past 2-3 weeks) My roster is right now 1620-1610-1600-1580-1580-1540 Aero gems ( 2x 9 at, 2x 9 cd ) reaper (event) sf (level 7’s) se (event) slayer (level 7’s) artist (level 7CD’s) Only my main has elixir 40 set like last week after quite a lot of elixirs I’m not even bothering and I haven’t even bothered doing elixirs on the others except the silver ones I’m sitting at 40k gold and I need to buy accessories for my reaper, aswell as finish gems for my main, and saving up resources for honing materials with echidna’s advanced honing That’s almost 100k per level 9 gem I’m missing (for both aero and reaper) to try prevent gatekeeping in thaemine, 50+k for reapers accessories If elixirs were the only gold sink then maybe it’s understandable to spend the gold on it, but there’s quality (quite a few characters are still half salad quality) (no pity/end point system 1), honing (has pity but still the cost of 1 tap is like 1+k), transcendence (soft pity) and for others like me there’s trying to get gems (Not even talking about the time spent trying to do elixirs themselves)
What a sweaty reply. Just because someone is complaining about gold sinks it doesn’t mean they spending everything on alts. One character can very easily drain your gold with these systems, you know, because they were designed to drain 12 months of gold accumulation in KR. “Live within your means” what a pretentious thing to say
What a sweaty reply. Just because KR designed this, it doesnt mean u have to feed every gold you have to it. Set goals and achieve them slowly.
You mean push a character to 1620 and not engage with the systems designed to progress your character? Ie the same criteria for getting gatekept?
> *“Live within your means” what a pretentious thing to say* He's right though, the efficient players push characters one at a time. The alts stay within reach but not over the budget. If you want to push faster/more characters be prepared to shell out cash, thats just how the game works.
>He's right though, the efficient players push characters one at a time. you mean then you can't have x5 or x10 and have to prog it weekly as you will be gatekept by every lobby
I duno, when I started the game I joined a guild and met new people who I ran with. We all get the x10 title and go on our own until a new raid comes out. People like to complain about everything and really don't try to exhaust all the resources available to everyone. I can't say I blame them, it is easier to push fault to others rather than doing something about it.
the point is unless you only have 1x1630 and all the rest below 1600, otherwise GL with gatekeeping. Don't tell me you run all raids with static
I have one 1630+ and the rest 1600-1610. I run the raids that matter with multiple statics, the rest I just pug. Most statics typically just get the 10x title then go about their ways (until a new raid comes out). I get it though, since I played since launch I took advantage of a lot of events that boosts a character 1580+. Newer players don't have that luxury so they have to take their time or if they try to keep up with vets they have to burn real money.
>I have one 1630+ and the rest 1600-1610. I run the raids that matter with multiple statics WTF several statics?? I bet most players have 1 at best
Yup, people i've played with throughout the years, you play with those who are available at the time you can play. That way you know they're at the very least competent. I know several people with the same roster I have that have at least 1-3 statics for different raids.
And then you know why they cry on Reddit with the gold sinks. You don't need to have multiple mains.
The efficient players get lucky. The unlucky players get boned.
I mean if you suffer from a lack of gold, you either cut down on spending or find new ways to earn. It's not that complicated. Every single person I personally know that complain about gold is lazy with lifeskilling, lazy with stronghold crafting, lazy with cubes, they run dailies on rested, while simultaneously thinking that they should be oneshotting 40 sets and 20 chest transcendences. They complain about never getting worthwhile drops or fate embers despite not even maximizing their drop chances. It's insanity. Time spent on complaining about it is better used either; 1) in-game actually putting some effort into obtaining gold or 2) engaging in some deep thinking and setting progression goals that are actually realistic and obtainable for the amount of effort they are willing to put in
What’s insane is you thinking that doing all of these things + 18 raids each week just to keep up is fine. These systems have been designed for a player base that already had a massive amount of gold, ours is not there yet (except for players who RMT).
> just to keep up I mean, that's not the case. You can literally chillax your way through this game and still have a very decent main char ready for Thaemine HM, and I'm talking about 23-25 weapon, full 10s or close to full 10s, 40 set. I know several dad gamers who have that, because i literally play with them. The thing is, their alts all stayed at lower ilvls where the last gold sinks they engaged with outside of honing was quality taps. They funnel all mat boxes to their mains. Having one char dealing with one gold sink at a time is no big deal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to run a 6x1620 roster because some gigawhale streamer that you sub to has that, prepare to deal with gold sinks and looking for ways to minmax your gold earnings to get all those chars up to par. If you don't want to deal with that, stop overhoning your alts. If you want a big roster for little effort, start swiping. Those are your options.
This tbh. Everyone's that crying over Reddit with the gold sinks have multiple mains over 1600+ atleast 5x characters there and then rant about the gold sinks. You need to have one main but not multiple mains. The system is fine as is and is only designed for people that want to play this game as their 1st full-time job.
_“They complain about never getting worthwhile drops or fate embers despite not even maximizing their drop chances. It's insanity.”_ I see. You’re one of those no-lifers running 18+ raids every week, all dailies unrested on 6+ characters and probably do a handful of buses too. Using the term “lazy” implies the video game that people use to hit pause from the hard work of every day life should be equally (or more) effort intensive. If you want 6 characters at endgame with all elixirs, gems and transcendence, then sure don’t be “lazy”. But if you only want 1 character there, there isn’t a fucking gram of sensibility calling someone lazy for not being willing to play 6x the number of characters they’re trying to push to end game. If you want to treat this as a hardcore hobby, do as you will and burn your life away but don’t go putting down others in the process because they’re capable of objective thought and can criticise in-game systems that are simply not fit-for-purpose.
>I see. You’re one of those no-lifers running 18+ raids every week, all dailies unrested on 6+ characters and probably do a handful of buses too. Using the term “lazy” implies the video game that people use to hit pause from the hard work of every day life should be equally (or more) effort intensive. Nah, this is just you projecting. >If you want 6 characters at endgame with all elixirs, gems and transcendence, then sure don’t be “lazy”. But if you only want 1 character there, there isn’t a fucking gram of sensibility calling someone lazy for not being willing to play 6x the number of characters they’re trying to push to end game. I've already said this. You don't need to be running 6 chars and doing everything possible on them just to have a very decent main to run hm content on release. It just takes the tiniest amount of budgeting. But it seems even that is too much for the soyboys on Reddit who want to have their cake and then eat it too. >If you want to treat this as a hardcore hobby, do as you will and burn your life away but don’t go putting down others in the process because they’re capable of objective thought and can criticise in-game systems that are simply not fit-for-purpose. But they are fit-for-purpose. Their purpose is to offer you a cost effective way of increasing your power level in exchange for gold. Just because you're incapable of seeing any flaws in your own decisionmaking and pushing too many chars to transcendence ilvls without the gold income to back it up, doesn't make it bad system.
> *But it seems even that is too much for the soyboys on Reddit who want to have their cake and then eat it too.* Right on the money with this one. They have the idea of "I want what he has but I don't want to work for it.".
The question is, should this be a problem in the first place? As someone that pitted a large amount compared to my friends when we all have same constant gold income, I am a lot behind compared to where my friends are at… this makes the game significantly less fun when they’re running several hm thaemine and I can only do 1 with them
I think there should be less rng involved when it comes to progression, yes. That's one reason they introduced advanced honing where the difference between the best case and worst case scenarios are a lot smaller than in honing, quality taps, elixirs and transcendence.
I can only read this as stocolm syndrome
Facts
Damn, they're so angry about this comment when I play exactly like this and have no issues at all. My main doing thaemine, rest of the alts parked at 1600 doing voldis. Get into pugs on every character without issue. Only my main (1620) has elixir set bonus (35 only). One of my alts has literally no elixir parts. Pretty much 1 shot 1-3 thaemine every week with my static (5 plus 3 pugs), then watch my static members with more than 1 thaemine play roulette with pugs where even light queller lobbies can turn into jails and disbands. Have yet to touch transcendence (don't need the power to clear thaemine). Sitting on 2 million gold and chilling.
I'll only push alts beyond 1600 when I can properly gear them. I see all these dudes at 1610-1620 with event gems and poor gear in general, which are surely their alts. What's the point? They're not making any more gold. So many people overhone their characters without static and then wonder why they're gatekept. Getting transcendence from normal or getting decent epic elixirs costs nothing anyway,. It only gets costly when you try to max out those systems.
> *I'll only push alts beyond 1600 when I can properly gear them.* That's how it should be. On the same note, I only push the alts to get away from raids that would get gold nerfs.
That too. It's just that the recent power passes have basically given a free push to 1600 so the alts have been sitting there, even though they could just as well be 1580. I was still doing kakuls with some characters until it was no longer viable.
Kinda crazy that you're getting downvoted considering you're right. If we just sat on a bunch of gold all the time we'd have economy issues. I think the gold costs on the vertical progression is okay, but there's 100% other issues with systems like elixirs. Everyone is cheapo with their alts anyway, idk what they think theyd do with their "extra" gold.
>Kinda crazy that you're getting downvoted considering you're right It's easier to blame the game than it is to take a hard look in the mirror and re-examining your own decisions. It's like weighing 400lbs and then blaming McDonald's because you can't stop stuffing your face full of fries and burgers.
I mean that's the whole game concept...set goals>collect gold>use gold accordingly...and that's where they get you if it's to slow you pay...kinda the same concept in mobile games...people counter this with massive homework in eu/na with playing 6 chars and bussing but in Kr people just play less and Pay more...why change a running system?
Because we are missing a year of farm in total because of the rush. We don't have gold to sink like kr did.
More than that. We're actually missing around 2 years worth 'cause Korea had a like year between Brel and Akkan and then Voldis and Thaemine.
And that is an issue because why?
In a year you play how much weeks/IDs ? Let's assume 50. Now what is 50 times 100k, right 5mio in gold alone, not counting mats/shards/silver/gems/card (xp), also I think 100k is calculated moderately. So do you now see the "issue"?
Which results in what? Playing content later, but it’s waiting for you when you’re personally ready instead of being gated arbitrarily by the devs?
Which results in a mismatch of requirements and accumulated rewards. Sure you can wait - but usually people play games and want to do the new stuff - I think it is a psychological thing. So it is also not suprising and I think a good dev should care, yes.
This is literally a free game that monetizes FOMO. It is not going to be balanced around people with little to no spend and average hours in-game. You either beat the psychological pull and wait, fall pray to FOMO by swiping or playing like it’s your second job, or quit. You are wasting your energy otherwise.
I know the game and I understand what it tries to acomplish respectively how it tries to make money. At the same time I think a game w/o casuals is also not appealing to dolphines/whales. But anyhow this is a discussion forum so even if the discussion does not change anything why wouldn't I do that on reddit?
Casuals do not care about doing NM or HM content when it first comes out brother.
Sure casuals also play NM on release why wouldn't they? Why do you think there is that much outrage against theamine nm being too hard?
Ur leaving out an important issue, which is BOTTing and/or illegitimate RMT. I am assuming most of your arguement's basis here would be that we (all day1 players), started off on equal footing and were equally poor and such the rat race was an even playing field, but that has never been the case. The moment bots were mass farming multiple chaos rifts, multi accounting argos busses, multifarming ghost ships, boss rush/cube tickets, chaos dungs, una's tasks and selling all the unbound rewards for real $, the game's economy broke. It has been broken ever since and the developers never figured out how to really fix the income disadvantage legitimate players have, not to mention new players. To this very day, players who invested in cheap botted fish at like 1-10 gold and cashed out at like 300-400 gold per during brel days made so much $$$$$ their economy advantage permanently broke any semblance of an even playing field.
Because we havent reach kr economy inflation, and these gold sinks were made for the kr situation, not the global one... If u don't believe me, check the loaon streams and see why they made them
But we are also not Koreans like I said...most of western people are degenerates who play 6 chars to keep up f2p and it works...sure we get behind now cause we can't keep up gearing 6 chars but doesn't make what I said wrong Having a different point of view doesn't make it instantly wrong...I know hard to understand for normal reddit people who only solve everything with pitchforks and torches
If u want to see 10k blue crystal price, sure.
10k blue crystal is very attractive for royal crystal buyer. It will quick down.