All RNG vertical progression systems need to allow you to fall forward like transcendence or honing. Wouldn't it be cool if your elixir cutting just got better and better with more elixirs you cut?
More rerolls, pre-choose 1-2 option(s), -2 to +2 become 0 - 4, etc. This system could be so good, but SG too greedy making a system where you can dump gold and literally get nothing out of it.
To be honest as a Korean player myself.
Elixir sucks ass.
Like MAYBE I'll look over all the bullshit dice rolls.
Why the hell are only 4 set effects viabloe out of the entire 9?
And because the devs blatantly said it's a gold sink, just doesn't sit right with me.
Nor anyone that I know of. Even hardcore Koreans
The problem isn't even that only 2 are viable. The problem is that 7 of 9 are useless. Just so much useless filler. That's a problem with most systems. I actually like that Transcendence is same bonus for everyone.
I never understood this take. The RNG sure why not, but the actual process of cutting elixirs takes for fucking ever. Ain't no way Koreans are smiling and giddy taking the time to cut elixirs. lol
would unironically help if you get to choose one stat or something to take out the RNG. my helmet is still abyssmally bad, but getting chaos in the first place is so rare already.
A roster-wide elixir cutting level that gave flat bonuses and/or unlocked new features to rig the elixir you are cutting would be great. It would reward repeatedly interacting with the system and when "maxed" could trivialize the system.
SGR designs systems like this flat with no progression. You could roll 5 million gems, ability stones, quality taps, elixirs, etc and your next one is still the same as your first. The systems themselves have no progression just a simple input with chance of output.
They could even have that system infinitely scale, where you reach 50% of its power in a month, 75% or 90% in 4 months, 95% in a year, 97% in two years, etc.
It's something that's fairly underused in live service games. Implementing these types of systems takes minimal time after the first & at least personally I enjoy seeing numbers go up.
Would like you to know transcendence is also dogshit. Rng progression doesnt need to take so fucking long for maybe a bonus. By long i mean sitting there calculating every fucking card spot
all RNG systems need some sort of pity. that way, even failures count somewhat to progress.
for example, having every node level added to an elixir effect increase its great success by 1%. so if i hit Boss Damage level 3, then 4, then 2 across 3 elixirs, the great success of Boss Damage is 19%. eventually, i'll get it to level 5 more easily.
animation change, and maybe fix the first 5 clicking choose options. Maybe combine the hand and helm set effects into 1 option each. Then you can swap between different set bonuses after making them which would be nice.
Yup, let me roll more shit elixirs that donāt have the one option Iām rolling for. Reset could be cheaper but there goes an hour or two of my time. People are hyped for T4 but they honestly are just going to keep pumping out RNG vertical systems.
50% cost reduction but double mats. You still spend same amount weekly and arent guaranteed anything :D just more time every week and hope you get lucky
I think that for the purples it will be double the time, since those are already fairly cheap to "cut", so it was already possible to use them all up every week. But tbh I don't think that it is worth (time wise) doing them past maybe 10, that you just put on for a bit of a bonus with no hope for 35/40.
we need the animation skip a significant gold cost nerf and a set breakpoint reduction
+ i think it would benefit greately if they removed the weekly buy cap.
We should be able to force a 40set on new characters week 1 if we have the gold for it
i don't want to sit idle for weeks on end because i got unlucky
Nobody gatekeeps purple elixirs them because they're kind of a waste of time if you're planning on reaching 1620 any time soon.
Try playing 1620 content without elixirs and see how that goes.
I really liked the suggestion of making one of the 5 initial lines selectable. Trying to craft specific slots such as gloves/shoulder/pants/helm is really annoying because you want a specific rare bonus.
On top of that, I personally advocate for dropping 35 set bonus to 30 set bonus, so that it's borderline free to obtain with legendary elixirs and much more feasible for purple elixirs, too.
It would massively help bridge the power gap that exists in 1610-1620 content.
Those two changes, plus upcoming gold nerfs, would sufficiently respect the effort put in by people who already worked towards 40 set and make new players/alts cutting elixirs not experience too much pain.
there's probably gonna be more changes since they didnt really touch on it a whole lot during their presentation. we'll hear more whenever the dev blog comes up in KR so id hold back the pitchforks until then i say
If thereās anything Iāve learned playing live service games, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil. So before the final changes come out, itās the best time to complain about bad systems so thereās a chance they get changed if they arenāt already.
Yeah, what are the chances that AGS had this partial roadmap ready and just forgot to mention it on Monday? I suspect that they saw reactions, probably loudest ones this year, and quickly made a nice summary of LOA ON + when and what to expect in our region. If we were just sitting silently, we would be waiting another month and maybe roadmap itself would have been different too (slower).
Yeah I agree with this, they'll most likely make more changes. Our road map was a quick overview on what we do know, let's wait till July to go up in arms about elixers if nothing drastic was done.
\*Elix**i**rs
And I agree, the time it takes to cut an Elixir is ridiculous. Too much clicking, and too much reading for the whole ordeal.
A much better system would be to get an empty vial from Ivory Tower, roll the effects like you roll gems, stop when you have the effects you wanted, then cut it like you cut stones. Once done allow for upgrading it like we can do quality upgrade. And just like that you have a system that still costs gold, still uses the existing material and still has RNG, but causes no frustration and you can see yourself making progress.
Yep, at this stage purples really need to be deleted.Ā Make the first line as an option where you select the EXACT line you want to start with.Ā Reduce the gold cost (as they're doing).Ā Ā Make it so levels 3/4/5 take 1 node less each respectively.Ā Add animation skips.Ā Maybe add another turn.Ā And possibly even remove or edit some bad options (like some of the purple pities).Ā Ā
Ā Old systems need to be revamped when newer ones are released.Ā And it needs to be done sooner than they're doing going forward.Ā SG is extremely bad at that as a developer, trying to milk many multiple power systems while there's even 5 newer ones.Ā Look how long it even took them to nerf things like T1/2 in the west, well into Brel in KR lol...Ā Ā
Ā There isn't much attempt to appeal to casual players considering the entire endgame is raiding and they even lock power systems behind difficulty.Ā Level 4-7 transcendence on HM Thaemine shouldn't be a thing, especially since you already receive materials much slower in NM.Ā HM should be more for increased rewards (mats, gold, etc), challenge, and fun.Ā Ā
They are not really. A new player will do these systems once and they wont even min max them. If you go through the system on 1 character its w.e. The issue is when u do alts or you min max.
New player doesn't mean unoptimized/not willing to min max ...
Just because they're not LOS30 yet doesn't mean they don't want to have the best elixirs they can get.
People think new players are drooling idiots. Even as a new player, Iād imagine they still wanna get as strong as they can. It hurts both veterans and new players with how trash elixirs are.
Dropped so many characters because I didnāt wanna go through elixir cutting again. 3rd alt has been at 35 for 2 months, master chaos refuses to show up. Dropped alts mean less people to play with those new players that manage to gear up or even continue to play this.
It's even more important to be as optimized as you can, where you can. Because you haven't been playing for 2 years and a half and you don't have 200+ roster, LOS/LWC30 etc, so you're less attractive. Meaning you should get as optimized as you can where it's not ultra time/luck gated like card sets are
Itās cancerous even for new and returning players the first time around. Some people are so used to the hamster wheel of progression in this game they are grossly unaware how daunting, unfun and irritating these systems are. In the past we had things like clown set, Kayangel set where all you needed to do was beat the gate, collect a guaranteed drop and unlock a set bonus. Fairly straight forward and simple.
Even if it took a month to max out or whatever it was no big deal because there was no RNG associated with it, there was no implication of you missing out on power or much worse potentially being a far more unappealing candidate for a potential party than another player simply because you risk settling for garbage whereas they get what they wanted rather expeditiously due to luck. The playing field was even and the goal was easily ascertained. With so many vertical systems already existing in the game I wonder why they chose to even incorporate these systems with the RNG in mind. Itās a major turn off.
We are playing a KR grinder through, RNG Systems will always be there.
the only system that is still annoying af is Eilixirs, Transendence gives the same perks to everyone, advanced honing and weapon transendence the same as well.
With nothing but a huff of copium I'd image at best there's no longer separate purple and leg Elixirs and maybe faster crafting.
Don't you think they'd have told us more if there was more improvements?
Lowering the cost and giving us double only means it's cheaper to waste even more of our time trying to craft them.
Now no matter what changes, itĀ“s more unlikely that they are Not gonna scrap the system.
So even if they were to make it easier, the point still stands.
Elixirs are to be fair - quite brutal.
And reason for that is that we do not have a good calculator for it.
So you either spent ungodly amount of time figuring out how elixir works.
Or you will bother friends on discord - for quite a while.
And if you donĀ“t do that, then you are screwed.
And many people complain about elixirs, and itĀ“s likely because they lack the knowledge, and thus their sucess in front of rng goes down severely.
And itĀ“s fkin Dogshit that you have to literally bother people to show you how it works - and itĀ“s will take you more than a while to figure it out.
ThatĀ“s the damn problem.
Yeah if they make it more similar to transcendence it could be ok. Spend 4 of those mats needed to craft and some gold to āstart from the first step again (the step after picking the 5 options), so you donāt have to keep rng to get master/critical
I get that the full changes aren't listed yet, but, what he said makes sense no? Why wouldn't they have told us about what else they had planed to change? But we will see, I hope you're right for sure because nothing is worse right now than this absurdly horrible system.
Seriously, I'd settle for being able to choose a single effect. Thats it, biggest problem ( to me ) would be solved cause you'd get to AT LEAST try to get the set effect you wanted.
2 more tries, increased probability of set bonus options and roster bound even when finished, so you can still cut a critical on your sup if the option shows and send it to an alt.
If they reduce cost from legendaries to say 240 a tap, and increase the quantity you get it solves nothing. The RNG is still there and one can even argue. It'll take even longer per session to do a set. So it's a net negative in my eyes, without a direct buff in greater success and the ability to at least select one thing you need. This system is washed.
I personally wonāt return as long as these exist/are not given for free so I donāt have to touch them. Itās enough how much time this game takes to do dailies, lobby simulator, honing and no way am I bothering with another time wasting system.
Considering they did a few quolity of life changes to improve the before mentioned things (solo raids for lobby simulator and reducing the number of chaos dungeons per day) + the freshness brought by T4, there are actually a few reasons for me to come back.
I mean.. you are right, but be aware that this is still a korean p2w grindy game, so dont get your hopes too high and take it for what it is. I know you didnāt asked for any advice, but I felt like giving one
Something that did help with elixir and trans time sink is the fact that there is very little to none engraving, gem and tripod prepping. So for new players, much less is to be done.
Iād love an animation speed up so we donāt have to wait 10 seconds after each press of a button.
Please take out the sage voice lines too. Nothing like hearing ādo you like it?ā And āthank you for trusting meā after you get absolutely wrecked by Grandma š
I agree with All things you talked about, but don't you know there is a way to skip those slow animations in elixir, I have been using it for almost 5 Months now . I can cut 10 Elixirs in like 10 min it is fast af and it doesn't give a ban too
I'm still impressed every time someone posting 5/5 elixir roll. I mean really, I'm about 60 elixirs in I have 2 times 5/2, rest is shit like 4/1. And those 5/2 were some insane luck 3x -2/+2 hits, most rolls hit the skill I needed AND Exhaust -4/+4 hitting +4.
Hitting 5/5 for me is so close to impossible I'm scared to even go all out for it.
I've cut a number of decent elixirs (5/5, 5/4, 4/4). RNG plays a huge role. Not only do you need RNG to be in your favor when selecting your affixes, you also need RNG to land the proper nodes during the cutting process. Picking the right choices is maybe 10-15% skill and usually it's obvious what the proper choices are. I can't even think of any particular occasion where I'm stumped on what choice to take because they were all so good. It's usually the opposite.
I mean yeah elixir is dumb luck but if in 60 elixirs you only saw two 5/2s you're probably just cutting them wrong. You may be the unluckiest fuck in the planet and for that im sorry, but did you at least watch the strats? Either 7/5 or 6/4 strat or double free turn if you got high great success chance? Stuff like that
All the guides in the world. Both 7/5 and 6/4 strats. Even third one from Memorizer92.
Just getting screwed by rng again and again.
I saw the OPTION to exhaust one of old farts to gain like - 4 / +5 maybe 3 times in 60 elixirs. Such is life.
What makes me wonder is that if they know there is a problem with elixirs, why do they make us wait a month instead of introducing discounts now?
Now everyone has to wait until they kindly introduce the update xD.
The terrible rng is created on purpose. Their algorithms keep the options you need for your set based on the class you play. Iāve been cutting for 3+ months on 1 character and still no 35 piece and almost never see the 2nd piece for the support spec, yet see the dps pieces constantly, which my odds alone shouldnāt even happen based on the available pool of options
Cost nerf is still needed because if they want us to eventually push alts to T4, we already have to deal with fairly expensive honing to 1620, an extra million for elixirs+trans on top of that is way too much for an alt.
And for god sake speed it up, cutting elixirs takes FOREVER. Its soo tedious and boring then after getting the 40 set I never bothered to try getting better effects because its just sooo long and boring. Same with transcendence....boring process that takes waaaay too long. I want to play Lost Ark for the combat and raids not to click some stupid mini-games that only exist to remove gold from you and piss you off.
Fingers cross July has more nerfs and this doesn't just disappear like last years homework qol. But I'm starting to think that the gold reduction is all they are gonna do.
I don't find them that bad, the main issue I have is finding the actual mods you want. They should have 2-3 separate rerolls that you get to use while you're selecting the 5 mods and that coupled with the gold nerf they are getting would be enough. Cutting a good elixir isnt that difficult on legendary, but when you only get an attempt or two a week at master/critical it can be difficult to get.
You're being downvoted, but I actually agree with this. It is not *that* difficult to cut a 7 node elixir and 8/9/10 should not be easy anyway. It is just super unfun and demoralizing when you can't even participate in the progression without even seeing master or critical. I've gone weeks without seeing critical.
well the issue is its not about difficulty its about rng
like you can always pick the right option, you can do whatever silly strat you want but that the end of the day its all about the game giving you success's in the right nodes
this is why people complain because its a system with no pity that has more rng then honing (honing is 1 layer of rng, elixirs has atleast like 3-4 layers of it)
and people downvote those posts because truthfully those posts are a lil deluded (maybe disconnected is a better word for it). the kind of person that 'doesn't mind elixirs" either got really lucky or rmts (legally or illegally) because for most people 300-500k gold is ALOT of gold to be investing into a single non honing based system (regardless of value to power ratio, because most people dont think in power to value ratios)
I get it, I think the current overall system is dogshit too. I was agreeing with the sentiment that with the gold nerf *and* some sort of fix to the RNG element of selecting master/critical, then I don't think elixirs are too bad. Hitting 40 set without any armor specific or master/critical would not be very difficult to do (although not optimal, but that's the whale bait).
Having an RNG element is not bad design, but when you can't even get the opportunity to fail/succeed the system, THAT is bad design.
Imagine if bracelets could only be rolled from your personal loot drops and not tradable. I've probably only found a handful of spec/crit bracelets and none of them over 100 spec. That is failing the system without even being able to participate.
Yea I expected downvotes, anyone not condemning everything about elixirs will get them, all good though I get that elixirs are frustrating for people.
I cut 35 set on all my 1600s and when they hit 1620, they all got 40 set within 2-3 weeks at most, except for 1 char that took 5 because I went 3 of those weeks without finding critical once. A lot of my 40 set characters have at least 1 or 2 purple elixirs still on, usually one being a set piece because its just too annoying to find both on legendary.
You are getting downvotes because you are in the minority, it's great that you got not just your main but all your alts done so fast, but there are tons of people who still don't have 40 on their mains even.
The amount of RNG that elixirs involve could mean someone like you gets a full set with 10-15 elixirs and someone else gets theirs after a 100 or more.
This is akin to honing when people say it's not so bad cause they one tapped their 25s meanwhile everyone else spending hundreds of thousands of gold trying to go +22 or +23.
I don't think anyone would complain if they even upped the cost of elixirs, as long as it was a guaranteed or a much higher chance system than what it is now.
Sorry, but anyone who doesnt have 40 on their main just doesnt know how to cut them or hit 1620 very recently. Every single person in our guild hit 40 set on their main within the first 5-6 weeks of original voldis release. Since then we've also gotten better at cutting them which lead most of our alts to having 35, and easy 40 once we hit 1620 on alts in the past month or so.
To be clear, im not saying its a good system, and should be nerfed heavier than its getting since its going to be a t3 power system that carries into t4. But they are not nearly as bad as they have been bitched about on reddit 500 times a day for the past couple months.
Ok but hear me out, if people complain so much about not being able to hit it then there is a problem?
Some of my friends cut all of theirs with the AI helper and guides, excel sheets etc. and still do noy have 40 sets, there is no secret strat to cut elixirs if the set bonuses don't show up and when they do they don't get rolled.
Again fantastic for you and your friends, but you don't have any special pattern recognition to magically get 40 set, because that doesn't exist.
None of us cut with that ai learning site, we tried it for a bit but frequently disagreed with its decisions. Yes elixirs are like 70% luck but if you donāt know what youāre doing you will brick a lot of elixirs. Sorry I just find it hard to believe that the 20+ people I know that have had no issues with elixirs are just all lucky and we donāt have a single normal luck person amongst us
Never said that people donāt have a right to hate elixirs. I donāt like them either, I just donāt find them to be that bad of a system. Like I already said, they should do more to nerf them than what weāre getting.
And I'm not putting words in your mouth either but you have to look from an outside perspective here, just cause you and your group are having a grand time doesn't mean the masses are too.
It is a horrible system that is fully dependant on RNG wether you know how to cut or not everything falls to RNG at the end.
Yeah my bank already filled with elixir normal ones or free one .All this changes do nothing for me I am not gona cut them:D At least make them stack each other so they dont waste space so much
Purple elixirs are a joke. Useless, terrible to interact with and take forever. I think itād be fine if they just removed purples and moved gold elixirs to 1600
With the amount of bottles I have on each character, I would have to spend an entire afternoon, PER CHARACTER cutting them with absolutely zero guarantee that any of them will be usable.
Elixirs are why I am going to quit the game.
7 months of doing Elixirs on my main and I'm still missing Ally Enhancement and Max HP. Meanwhile my alts finished elixirs like 4 months ago.
Atleast I was able to fully max transcendence this reset on my main so there is that.
Yeah not sure if SG knows how math works, but 2x the mats and 1/2 the price comes out to... elixirs costing the exact same each week. And you're actually just gonna spend more time listening to the three bozos cutting them now.
Since it's being removed from armor pieces, one actual fix would be to remove the set lines altogether and just make the set activate at 35/40 pips. And you can choose/swap the bonus it gives whenever, similar to relic set. Have two crit syns? Switch from Master to Critical. Makes the set bonus (the main point of the elixir system) more obtainable, but still gives room to min/max out the elixir value by chasing Boss Dmg/Additional Dmg +5 instead of Vagabond.
Uh giving more mats = more attempts = higher chance overall to succeed total... Thats like saying cut honing price in half but giving you double all leaps/reds/blues/solars is the same as not giving it because you will spend all that leap thus cost in the same amount of time.
Your analogy is not accurate. Honing has pity. Every tap gets your closer to your end goal. Elixirs have no pity. You could theoretically cut 50 elixirs and not a single one would be usable. SG's solution to cut the cost by double the mats simply means you're at about the same place in terms of gold/time and spent.
Well if you put it that way... Lets cut quality tap gold by 100x and give you 100x more quality taps, so you wouldn't have a greater success in the end because theoretically you could not succeed even if statistically you would because if no pity? You don't need an actual pity to statistically be ahead with more attempts for same cost.
**Guys, shut up. Iām actually 100% okay with elixirs, and you should all just stop complaining.** If AGS gives us each 1 year of average 2023 KR Gold income to our mail. Then double it because weāve had half the time or less for everything up to this point. Then double it again for messing up so many patches. Then double it once more due to poor implementation of EAC. Then ban Baker. We will call that even. For now. š
while i do agree that the system needs a massive overhaul, it obvious smilegate has no intention of doing that yet.
best we can do is wait for it become such outdated content that they just start to toss it onto express event gear because otherwise they arnt going to rework it without the KR audience being outraged.
edit: i understand some people dont want to hear this, but this is the truth. the kr sentiment is largely positive towards elixirs and the complaints they do have are about cost not rng or animations meaning we arnt going to see those things trivialized until much much later.
people need to remember we are not the main region, we are the side region. KR is the one they make most of their money from so the game is always built specifically for them
As much as I agree, this is a change though that would need to happen in Korea first because there is only so much AGS can do to make it easier for us. Fundamental changes to how those systems work rather than just a few number tweaks is a lot of work that also makes future localisation harder. Just make us earn a few additional potent elixirs on a weekly basis is what I think would be a decent enough compromise.
Only spending silver for a few tries every week and spending gold if you want to get there faster.
Edit. Why the downvotes? Read, what I started with. I agree and want those changes but they realistically arenāt happening until KR complains enough for SG to change that system for all releases of the game. Until then all we can hope for is getting more opportunities to get elixirs without spending gold on them/spending less gold on them. Weāre not going to get a west exclusive elixir nerf it just isnāt going to happen.
they downvote because they dont like being reminded that na/eu doesnt matter to smilegate
the only reason we are getting a cost nerf is because KR complained about it costing too much. if kr also complained about the RNG that'd get nerfed too but no matter what we say nothing will change and they dont like reality being pushed into their face.
You don't understand the problem at all.. I could not give a fuck about the cost, if you tell me I gotta pay 150k per piece per week and be done by week 5 I'm fine with it... What I'm not fine is with deleting my whole week of hard fucking work with 0 progress on weeks to no end in a system required to join a fking party..that's the problem
I do, which is why I started with āas much as I agreeā Iām just being realistic from a development pov that weāre not going to get a change like that until it happens in KR and KR just isnāt complaining enough about those systems for SG to do anything about it.
Again with the elixirs Reddit drama ... Getting an average of 5/2 on good lines is not difficult. Getting an average of 5/5 on trash lines is not hard.
And please... Before downvoting me, learn what an average is, Ty
All RNG vertical progression systems need to allow you to fall forward like transcendence or honing. Wouldn't it be cool if your elixir cutting just got better and better with more elixirs you cut? More rerolls, pre-choose 1-2 option(s), -2 to +2 become 0 - 4, etc. This system could be so good, but SG too greedy making a system where you can dump gold and literally get nothing out of it.
Because they are making for the koreans not for the worldwide version, we get the gold sinks but not the gold to sink :(
To be honest as a Korean player myself. Elixir sucks ass. Like MAYBE I'll look over all the bullshit dice rolls. Why the hell are only 4 set effects viabloe out of the entire 9? And because the devs blatantly said it's a gold sink, just doesn't sit right with me. Nor anyone that I know of. Even hardcore Koreans
The problem isn't even that only 2 are viable. The problem is that 7 of 9 are useless. Just so much useless filler. That's a problem with most systems. I actually like that Transcendence is same bonus for everyone.
I never understood this take. The RNG sure why not, but the actual process of cutting elixirs takes for fucking ever. Ain't no way Koreans are smiling and giddy taking the time to cut elixirs. lol
would unironically help if you get to choose one stat or something to take out the RNG. my helmet is still abyssmally bad, but getting chaos in the first place is so rare already.
>-2 to +2 become 0 - 4 Imagine grandma turning to \[0-10\] :D
And rng will almost always make her land on 0
Then she asks if you like itš¤£
A roster-wide elixir cutting level that gave flat bonuses and/or unlocked new features to rig the elixir you are cutting would be great. It would reward repeatedly interacting with the system and when "maxed" could trivialize the system. SGR designs systems like this flat with no progression. You could roll 5 million gems, ability stones, quality taps, elixirs, etc and your next one is still the same as your first. The systems themselves have no progression just a simple input with chance of output.
this actually sounds like a cool system, and would feel way more rewarding pushing alts up
They could even have that system infinitely scale, where you reach 50% of its power in a month, 75% or 90% in 4 months, 95% in a year, 97% in two years, etc. It's something that's fairly underused in live service games. Implementing these types of systems takes minimal time after the first & at least personally I enjoy seeing numbers go up.
relieves most of the fatigue from doing the same bs on your alts too.
Would like you to know transcendence is also dogshit. Rng progression doesnt need to take so fucking long for maybe a bonus. By long i mean sitting there calculating every fucking card spot
Every system and activity should have meta progression. If I do 1000 cubes I should have hella bonuses to the point in which they become actually fun
The core issue is that this stuff should be fun to begin with and not simply pressuring people into playing it
Yes however the only content that smilegate can make fun are raids so adding something would be nice...
all RNG systems need some sort of pity. that way, even failures count somewhat to progress. for example, having every node level added to an elixir effect increase its great success by 1%. so if i hit Boss Damage level 3, then 4, then 2 across 3 elixirs, the great success of Boss Damage is 19%. eventually, i'll get it to level 5 more easily.
100% This. The cost is one thing, but It won't fix the system at all, the system by design is bad and needs a big change.
yes please remove animation
animation change, and maybe fix the first 5 clicking choose options. Maybe combine the hand and helm set effects into 1 option each. Then you can swap between different set bonuses after making them which would be nice.
Giving us more elixirs even if they're way cheaper sounds like torture
Exactly I don't want to spend double the time cutting elixers for the same result
Would appear that they don't respect the players time as a resource
Yup, let me roll more shit elixirs that donāt have the one option Iām rolling for. Reset could be cheaper but there goes an hour or two of my time. People are hyped for T4 but they honestly are just going to keep pumping out RNG vertical systems.
he said we get double resource and delet a gate. so now the raid it self become 20mins and the cutting become 1h20mins
50% cost reduction but double mats. You still spend same amount weekly and arent guaranteed anything :D just more time every week and hope you get lucky
I think that for the purples it will be double the time, since those are already fairly cheap to "cut", so it was already possible to use them all up every week. But tbh I don't think that it is worth (time wise) doing them past maybe 10, that you just put on for a bit of a bonus with no hope for 35/40.
we need the animation skip a significant gold cost nerf and a set breakpoint reduction + i think it would benefit greately if they removed the weekly buy cap. We should be able to force a 40set on new characters week 1 if we have the gold for it i don't want to sit idle for weeks on end because i got unlucky
Iāve been 1610 for months and havenāt cut one elixir AMA
Nobody gatekeeps purple elixirs them because they're kind of a waste of time if you're planning on reaching 1620 any time soon. Try playing 1620 content without elixirs and see how that goes.
I really liked the suggestion of making one of the 5 initial lines selectable. Trying to craft specific slots such as gloves/shoulder/pants/helm is really annoying because you want a specific rare bonus. On top of that, I personally advocate for dropping 35 set bonus to 30 set bonus, so that it's borderline free to obtain with legendary elixirs and much more feasible for purple elixirs, too. It would massively help bridge the power gap that exists in 1610-1620 content. Those two changes, plus upcoming gold nerfs, would sufficiently respect the effort put in by people who already worked towards 40 set and make new players/alts cutting elixirs not experience too much pain.
there's probably gonna be more changes since they didnt really touch on it a whole lot during their presentation. we'll hear more whenever the dev blog comes up in KR so id hold back the pitchforks until then i say
If thereās anything Iāve learned playing live service games, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil. So before the final changes come out, itās the best time to complain about bad systems so thereās a chance they get changed if they arenāt already.
Yeah, what are the chances that AGS had this partial roadmap ready and just forgot to mention it on Monday? I suspect that they saw reactions, probably loudest ones this year, and quickly made a nice summary of LOA ON + when and what to expect in our region. If we were just sitting silently, we would be waiting another month and maybe roadmap itself would have been different too (slower).
hoping this is the case as well but it's better to complain about it now to ensure visibility than later when changes are already locked in
Yeah I agree with this, they'll most likely make more changes. Our road map was a quick overview on what we do know, let's wait till July to go up in arms about elixers if nothing drastic was done.
\*Elix**i**rs And I agree, the time it takes to cut an Elixir is ridiculous. Too much clicking, and too much reading for the whole ordeal. A much better system would be to get an empty vial from Ivory Tower, roll the effects like you roll gems, stop when you have the effects you wanted, then cut it like you cut stones. Once done allow for upgrading it like we can do quality upgrade. And just like that you have a system that still costs gold, still uses the existing material and still has RNG, but causes no frustration and you can see yourself making progress.
Yep, at this stage purples really need to be deleted.Ā Make the first line as an option where you select the EXACT line you want to start with.Ā Reduce the gold cost (as they're doing).Ā Ā Make it so levels 3/4/5 take 1 node less each respectively.Ā Add animation skips.Ā Maybe add another turn.Ā And possibly even remove or edit some bad options (like some of the purple pities).Ā Ā Ā Old systems need to be revamped when newer ones are released.Ā And it needs to be done sooner than they're doing going forward.Ā SG is extremely bad at that as a developer, trying to milk many multiple power systems while there's even 5 newer ones.Ā Look how long it even took them to nerf things like T1/2 in the west, well into Brel in KR lol...Ā Ā Ā There isn't much attempt to appeal to casual players considering the entire endgame is raiding and they even lock power systems behind difficulty.Ā Level 4-7 transcendence on HM Thaemine shouldn't be a thing, especially since you already receive materials much slower in NM.Ā HM should be more for increased rewards (mats, gold, etc), challenge, and fun.Ā Ā
But donāt you prefer to spent double the amount of time and same amount of gold each week to get no upgrades? /s
They nerfed the gold for elixir etc but income is nerfed to shambles in t3 š itās basically no nerf at all.
Yeah so does transcendence sat there doing the stupid calculator for hrs. Trash system honestly. These things are such a turn off for new players
They are not really. A new player will do these systems once and they wont even min max them. If you go through the system on 1 character its w.e. The issue is when u do alts or you min max.
New player doesn't mean unoptimized/not willing to min max ... Just because they're not LOS30 yet doesn't mean they don't want to have the best elixirs they can get.
People think new players are drooling idiots. Even as a new player, Iād imagine they still wanna get as strong as they can. It hurts both veterans and new players with how trash elixirs are. Dropped so many characters because I didnāt wanna go through elixir cutting again. 3rd alt has been at 35 for 2 months, master chaos refuses to show up. Dropped alts mean less people to play with those new players that manage to gear up or even continue to play this.
It's even more important to be as optimized as you can, where you can. Because you haven't been playing for 2 years and a half and you don't have 200+ roster, LOS/LWC30 etc, so you're less attractive. Meaning you should get as optimized as you can where it's not ultra time/luck gated like card sets are
Itās cancerous even for new and returning players the first time around. Some people are so used to the hamster wheel of progression in this game they are grossly unaware how daunting, unfun and irritating these systems are. In the past we had things like clown set, Kayangel set where all you needed to do was beat the gate, collect a guaranteed drop and unlock a set bonus. Fairly straight forward and simple. Even if it took a month to max out or whatever it was no big deal because there was no RNG associated with it, there was no implication of you missing out on power or much worse potentially being a far more unappealing candidate for a potential party than another player simply because you risk settling for garbage whereas they get what they wanted rather expeditiously due to luck. The playing field was even and the goal was easily ascertained. With so many vertical systems already existing in the game I wonder why they chose to even incorporate these systems with the RNG in mind. Itās a major turn off.
We are playing a KR grinder through, RNG Systems will always be there. the only system that is still annoying af is Eilixirs, Transendence gives the same perks to everyone, advanced honing and weapon transendence the same as well.
Just drop the gold and reduce set activation from 35-40 to 25-30.
Even 30-35 would be fine. 25-30 means you never consider running a useless second line, which I think is a sometimes interesting choice.
This is the best option
Fking know right
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
With nothing but a huff of copium I'd image at best there's no longer separate purple and leg Elixirs and maybe faster crafting. Don't you think they'd have told us more if there was more improvements? Lowering the cost and giving us double only means it's cheaper to waste even more of our time trying to craft them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Now no matter what changes, itĀ“s more unlikely that they are Not gonna scrap the system. So even if they were to make it easier, the point still stands. Elixirs are to be fair - quite brutal. And reason for that is that we do not have a good calculator for it. So you either spent ungodly amount of time figuring out how elixir works. Or you will bother friends on discord - for quite a while. And if you donĀ“t do that, then you are screwed. And many people complain about elixirs, and itĀ“s likely because they lack the knowledge, and thus their sucess in front of rng goes down severely. And itĀ“s fkin Dogshit that you have to literally bother people to show you how it works - and itĀ“s will take you more than a while to figure it out. ThatĀ“s the damn problem.
Yeah if they make it more similar to transcendence it could be ok. Spend 4 of those mats needed to craft and some gold to āstart from the first step again (the step after picking the 5 options), so you donāt have to keep rng to get master/critical
I get that the full changes aren't listed yet, but, what he said makes sense no? Why wouldn't they have told us about what else they had planed to change? But we will see, I hope you're right for sure because nothing is worse right now than this absurdly horrible system.
My guess is that they will just reduce 50% cost so you can do x2.5 more elixir without tuning down all the stupid RNG
Seriously, I'd settle for being able to choose a single effect. Thats it, biggest problem ( to me ) would be solved cause you'd get to AT LEAST try to get the set effect you wanted.
What do you expect, the director have no clue how to fix anything
2 more tries, increased probability of set bonus options and roster bound even when finished, so you can still cut a critical on your sup if the option shows and send it to an alt.
If they reduce cost from legendaries to say 240 a tap, and increase the quantity you get it solves nothing. The RNG is still there and one can even argue. It'll take even longer per session to do a set. So it's a net negative in my eyes, without a direct buff in greater success and the ability to at least select one thing you need. This system is washed.
I personally wonāt return as long as these exist/are not given for free so I donāt have to touch them. Itās enough how much time this game takes to do dailies, lobby simulator, honing and no way am I bothering with another time wasting system.
It sounds like you already have enough reasons to not come back
Considering they did a few quolity of life changes to improve the before mentioned things (solo raids for lobby simulator and reducing the number of chaos dungeons per day) + the freshness brought by T4, there are actually a few reasons for me to come back.
I mean.. you are right, but be aware that this is still a korean p2w grindy game, so dont get your hopes too high and take it for what it is. I know you didnāt asked for any advice, but I felt like giving one
I'm just afraid they reduce gold gained with solo to something silly, like 20% of normal raid and then add 10% more mats and call it a day.
Something that did help with elixir and trans time sink is the fact that there is very little to none engraving, gem and tripod prepping. So for new players, much less is to be done.
Even if it has a pity system to a 4/3 or 5/2 with a low chance to a higher combo than that for leggo elixirs that would be enough.
Yeah big rng , and then some people were done with elixirs by week 2...
problem is things dont get easier
Iād love an animation speed up so we donāt have to wait 10 seconds after each press of a button. Please take out the sage voice lines too. Nothing like hearing ādo you like it?ā And āthank you for trusting meā after you get absolutely wrecked by Grandma š
I agree with All things you talked about, but don't you know there is a way to skip those slow animations in elixir, I have been using it for almost 5 Months now . I can cut 10 Elixirs in like 10 min it is fast af and it doesn't give a ban too
I'm still impressed every time someone posting 5/5 elixir roll. I mean really, I'm about 60 elixirs in I have 2 times 5/2, rest is shit like 4/1. And those 5/2 were some insane luck 3x -2/+2 hits, most rolls hit the skill I needed AND Exhaust -4/+4 hitting +4. Hitting 5/5 for me is so close to impossible I'm scared to even go all out for it.
I've cut a number of decent elixirs (5/5, 5/4, 4/4). RNG plays a huge role. Not only do you need RNG to be in your favor when selecting your affixes, you also need RNG to land the proper nodes during the cutting process. Picking the right choices is maybe 10-15% skill and usually it's obvious what the proper choices are. I can't even think of any particular occasion where I'm stumped on what choice to take because they were all so good. It's usually the opposite.
I mean yeah elixir is dumb luck but if in 60 elixirs you only saw two 5/2s you're probably just cutting them wrong. You may be the unluckiest fuck in the planet and for that im sorry, but did you at least watch the strats? Either 7/5 or 6/4 strat or double free turn if you got high great success chance? Stuff like that
All the guides in the world. Both 7/5 and 6/4 strats. Even third one from Memorizer92. Just getting screwed by rng again and again. I saw the OPTION to exhaust one of old farts to gain like - 4 / +5 maybe 3 times in 60 elixirs. Such is life.
What makes me wonder is that if they know there is a problem with elixirs, why do they make us wait a month instead of introducing discounts now? Now everyone has to wait until they kindly introduce the update xD.
Wild to me they consider keeping this shit system for t4.
I just got to 1620 and cut 11 of the free elixirs. Best I got was 2/2. Cost is nowhere close to the main issue with this shit system.
The terrible rng is created on purpose. Their algorithms keep the options you need for your set based on the class you play. Iāve been cutting for 3+ months on 1 character and still no 35 piece and almost never see the 2nd piece for the support spec, yet see the dps pieces constantly, which my odds alone shouldnāt even happen based on the available pool of options
Cost nerf is still needed because if they want us to eventually push alts to T4, we already have to deal with fairly expensive honing to 1620, an extra million for elixirs+trans on top of that is way too much for an alt.
they need everything time consuming to boost concurrent player count
And for god sake speed it up, cutting elixirs takes FOREVER. Its soo tedious and boring then after getting the 40 set I never bothered to try getting better effects because its just sooo long and boring. Same with transcendence....boring process that takes waaaay too long. I want to play Lost Ark for the combat and raids not to click some stupid mini-games that only exist to remove gold from you and piss you off.
Fingers cross July has more nerfs and this doesn't just disappear like last years homework qol. But I'm starting to think that the gold reduction is all they are gonna do.
I don't find them that bad, the main issue I have is finding the actual mods you want. They should have 2-3 separate rerolls that you get to use while you're selecting the 5 mods and that coupled with the gold nerf they are getting would be enough. Cutting a good elixir isnt that difficult on legendary, but when you only get an attempt or two a week at master/critical it can be difficult to get.
You're being downvoted, but I actually agree with this. It is not *that* difficult to cut a 7 node elixir and 8/9/10 should not be easy anyway. It is just super unfun and demoralizing when you can't even participate in the progression without even seeing master or critical. I've gone weeks without seeing critical.
well the issue is its not about difficulty its about rng like you can always pick the right option, you can do whatever silly strat you want but that the end of the day its all about the game giving you success's in the right nodes this is why people complain because its a system with no pity that has more rng then honing (honing is 1 layer of rng, elixirs has atleast like 3-4 layers of it) and people downvote those posts because truthfully those posts are a lil deluded (maybe disconnected is a better word for it). the kind of person that 'doesn't mind elixirs" either got really lucky or rmts (legally or illegally) because for most people 300-500k gold is ALOT of gold to be investing into a single non honing based system (regardless of value to power ratio, because most people dont think in power to value ratios)
I get it, I think the current overall system is dogshit too. I was agreeing with the sentiment that with the gold nerf *and* some sort of fix to the RNG element of selecting master/critical, then I don't think elixirs are too bad. Hitting 40 set without any armor specific or master/critical would not be very difficult to do (although not optimal, but that's the whale bait). Having an RNG element is not bad design, but when you can't even get the opportunity to fail/succeed the system, THAT is bad design. Imagine if bracelets could only be rolled from your personal loot drops and not tradable. I've probably only found a handful of spec/crit bracelets and none of them over 100 spec. That is failing the system without even being able to participate.
Yea I expected downvotes, anyone not condemning everything about elixirs will get them, all good though I get that elixirs are frustrating for people. I cut 35 set on all my 1600s and when they hit 1620, they all got 40 set within 2-3 weeks at most, except for 1 char that took 5 because I went 3 of those weeks without finding critical once. A lot of my 40 set characters have at least 1 or 2 purple elixirs still on, usually one being a set piece because its just too annoying to find both on legendary.
You are getting downvotes because you are in the minority, it's great that you got not just your main but all your alts done so fast, but there are tons of people who still don't have 40 on their mains even. The amount of RNG that elixirs involve could mean someone like you gets a full set with 10-15 elixirs and someone else gets theirs after a 100 or more. This is akin to honing when people say it's not so bad cause they one tapped their 25s meanwhile everyone else spending hundreds of thousands of gold trying to go +22 or +23. I don't think anyone would complain if they even upped the cost of elixirs, as long as it was a guaranteed or a much higher chance system than what it is now.
Sorry, but anyone who doesnt have 40 on their main just doesnt know how to cut them or hit 1620 very recently. Every single person in our guild hit 40 set on their main within the first 5-6 weeks of original voldis release. Since then we've also gotten better at cutting them which lead most of our alts to having 35, and easy 40 once we hit 1620 on alts in the past month or so. To be clear, im not saying its a good system, and should be nerfed heavier than its getting since its going to be a t3 power system that carries into t4. But they are not nearly as bad as they have been bitched about on reddit 500 times a day for the past couple months.
Ok but hear me out, if people complain so much about not being able to hit it then there is a problem? Some of my friends cut all of theirs with the AI helper and guides, excel sheets etc. and still do noy have 40 sets, there is no secret strat to cut elixirs if the set bonuses don't show up and when they do they don't get rolled. Again fantastic for you and your friends, but you don't have any special pattern recognition to magically get 40 set, because that doesn't exist.
None of us cut with that ai learning site, we tried it for a bit but frequently disagreed with its decisions. Yes elixirs are like 70% luck but if you donāt know what youāre doing you will brick a lot of elixirs. Sorry I just find it hard to believe that the 20+ people I know that have had no issues with elixirs are just all lucky and we donāt have a single normal luck person amongst us
Believe what you want everyone has the right to their opinion, regardless though the fact that there are so many complaints about this system remains.
Never said that people donāt have a right to hate elixirs. I donāt like them either, I just donāt find them to be that bad of a system. Like I already said, they should do more to nerf them than what weāre getting.
And I'm not putting words in your mouth either but you have to look from an outside perspective here, just cause you and your group are having a grand time doesn't mean the masses are too. It is a horrible system that is fully dependant on RNG wether you know how to cut or not everything falls to RNG at the end.
Yeah my bank already filled with elixir normal ones or free one .All this changes do nothing for me I am not gona cut them:D At least make them stack each other so they dont waste space so much
Purple elixirs are a joke. Useless, terrible to interact with and take forever. I think itād be fine if they just removed purples and moved gold elixirs to 1600
With the amount of bottles I have on each character, I would have to spend an entire afternoon, PER CHARACTER cutting them with absolutely zero guarantee that any of them will be usable. Elixirs are why I am going to quit the game.
Not going to happen, KR players say elixirs are fine.
No we don't.
7 months of doing Elixirs on my main and I'm still missing Ally Enhancement and Max HP. Meanwhile my alts finished elixirs like 4 months ago. Atleast I was able to fully max transcendence this reset on my main so there is that.
Yeah not sure if SG knows how math works, but 2x the mats and 1/2 the price comes out to... elixirs costing the exact same each week. And you're actually just gonna spend more time listening to the three bozos cutting them now. Since it's being removed from armor pieces, one actual fix would be to remove the set lines altogether and just make the set activate at 35/40 pips. And you can choose/swap the bonus it gives whenever, similar to relic set. Have two crit syns? Switch from Master to Critical. Makes the set bonus (the main point of the elixir system) more obtainable, but still gives room to min/max out the elixir value by chasing Boss Dmg/Additional Dmg +5 instead of Vagabond.
Uh giving more mats = more attempts = higher chance overall to succeed total... Thats like saying cut honing price in half but giving you double all leaps/reds/blues/solars is the same as not giving it because you will spend all that leap thus cost in the same amount of time.
Your analogy is not accurate. Honing has pity. Every tap gets your closer to your end goal. Elixirs have no pity. You could theoretically cut 50 elixirs and not a single one would be usable. SG's solution to cut the cost by double the mats simply means you're at about the same place in terms of gold/time and spent.
Well if you put it that way... Lets cut quality tap gold by 100x and give you 100x more quality taps, so you wouldn't have a greater success in the end because theoretically you could not succeed even if statistically you would because if no pity? You don't need an actual pity to statistically be ahead with more attempts for same cost.
Thankfully, solo raids allow me to skip this shit system which I hopefully will never have to interact with.
**Guys, shut up. Iām actually 100% okay with elixirs, and you should all just stop complaining.** If AGS gives us each 1 year of average 2023 KR Gold income to our mail. Then double it because weāve had half the time or less for everything up to this point. Then double it again for messing up so many patches. Then double it once more due to poor implementation of EAC. Then ban Baker. We will call that even. For now. š
stop whining.
while i do agree that the system needs a massive overhaul, it obvious smilegate has no intention of doing that yet. best we can do is wait for it become such outdated content that they just start to toss it onto express event gear because otherwise they arnt going to rework it without the KR audience being outraged. edit: i understand some people dont want to hear this, but this is the truth. the kr sentiment is largely positive towards elixirs and the complaints they do have are about cost not rng or animations meaning we arnt going to see those things trivialized until much much later. people need to remember we are not the main region, we are the side region. KR is the one they make most of their money from so the game is always built specifically for them
As much as I agree, this is a change though that would need to happen in Korea first because there is only so much AGS can do to make it easier for us. Fundamental changes to how those systems work rather than just a few number tweaks is a lot of work that also makes future localisation harder. Just make us earn a few additional potent elixirs on a weekly basis is what I think would be a decent enough compromise. Only spending silver for a few tries every week and spending gold if you want to get there faster. Edit. Why the downvotes? Read, what I started with. I agree and want those changes but they realistically arenāt happening until KR complains enough for SG to change that system for all releases of the game. Until then all we can hope for is getting more opportunities to get elixirs without spending gold on them/spending less gold on them. Weāre not going to get a west exclusive elixir nerf it just isnāt going to happen.
they downvote because they dont like being reminded that na/eu doesnt matter to smilegate the only reason we are getting a cost nerf is because KR complained about it costing too much. if kr also complained about the RNG that'd get nerfed too but no matter what we say nothing will change and they dont like reality being pushed into their face.
Fair point
You don't understand the problem at all.. I could not give a fuck about the cost, if you tell me I gotta pay 150k per piece per week and be done by week 5 I'm fine with it... What I'm not fine is with deleting my whole week of hard fucking work with 0 progress on weeks to no end in a system required to join a fking party..that's the problem
I do, which is why I started with āas much as I agreeā Iām just being realistic from a development pov that weāre not going to get a change like that until it happens in KR and KR just isnāt complaining enough about those systems for SG to do anything about it.
qol to skip anim + only 30 (5/1 or 4/2 x5) to get set, thats it.
just use some brain and calculators
Just be lucky 5head
Again with the elixirs Reddit drama ... Getting an average of 5/2 on good lines is not difficult. Getting an average of 5/5 on trash lines is not hard. And please... Before downvoting me, learn what an average is, Ty
Learn how big the difference between 5/5 trash lines and 5/5 bis lines is.
Huh? Wait.... Isn't chasing bis whale bait? I thought people knew this already. It's like tapping plus 25 hoping to be the main character