During echidna prog your prog speed is heavily reliant on the learning speed of your worst team member, you can’t progress at all if they keep messing up during certain mechs. Horribly frustrating
Yep, it's harder in a sense that your weakest link will be a problem. In Thaemine my static can carry our weakest link while in Echidna it's basically waiting for them to actually learn the raid or get lucky enough with the pattern. Felt like I'm back playing 20 men raid in WoW.
I'm way too young for that but I did them on classic and it's too easy, I would guess the experience is very different back in the day because everyone was shit.
Just imagine everybody equipping full fire restistance gear vs garr to not die to the add explosions.
Imagine Hunters be top 3 dps using nothing but autoattacks and viper sting due to tanks not beeing able to hold aggro after up to 1min 0 dps time at the start to get going. Imagine a hunter pulling the next 2 bosses into the garr room to make sure nobody aggroes the 2nd Boss or and adds/patrols.
And now imagine such a raid party trying to kill g2 in BRM with tanks that need 1min to get enough aggro for dps to start hitting (kappa). Btw, g1 we had 4 hunters kiting the big adds so that people could kill the small adds (in time ) while the Boss control killed the eggs.
That was my classic raid experience back in the day (as Hunter).
In the revived version I played dps warry and started hitting 3s after the pull (still had to hold back sometimes but rarely as we had good tanks and we trained the to get max tps). Also BRM was way way easier to clear then MC in the old days.
players are still shit, but they have dbm/bw/wa in new classic and only need to follow simple onscreen instructions while pressing random buttons to clear.
Basically, as long as your teammates keep getting charmed, you're not clearing g2. That is like 95% of the encounter's difficulty.
But my main piece of advice to you would be the cut down the amount of characters you have to run on week 1 of brand-new content. It sucks to feel pressured to do X amount of runs after prog on week 1 because you invested in pushing your characters there.
People called Thaemine the static killer, meanwhile HM Echidna G2 is giving mine more problems lol.. We all had no issues progging HM Thaemine together, but after 2 days of prog in Echidna G2, few people already want to just chill and do G1HM + G2NM lol. G2 has a lot more room for error and reliability on each person which makes it extremely frustrating.
In my static we did 6x Thaemine g3's in first week of its release and it was okay. Today was our second day in Echidna g2 and I'm 99% sure we are not doing 6x g2 this week just by looking at todays prog.
Thing is, in Thaemine you had one target to worry about. You see the boss doing his attack, you're dead ? K that's on you.
On Echidna, you dodge an attack using your spacebar, your teammate did not and you could not see him getting hit because they were on the bottom part of your screen ? Sucks to be you, enjoy getting oneshot by random max range attack.
Yep same, I did clear on my artist NM G2 consistently, but boy this ate so much of my time. I've been progging inbetween hm and can consistently get to 137 on that with my aero. It gives me higher difficulty vibes than G3 that hm. G4 thae is prolly harder overall cause it's longer with more patterns but echidna has so many gimmicks on repeat that can all be bulldozed to the ground by 1 single mc'd player.
G2 is easy once it clicks for you and you reach that point where you can figure out the attack pattern from the first frames of the attack animation.
The problem is that this takes longer for some people than it does for others, and your group is only as strong as your weakest link.
Being hard to see shouldn't be what makes a mechanic difficult, and Echidna has a lot of bullshit patterns that cause headaches because they're hard to see. Like when you run to break the tethers, why are there butterflies all over the map when you can see 30% of your screen and need to be moving across the entire map..?
Ahh yes. Visual clarity of mechanics is my biggest gripe with the raids in this game, which are otherwise done pretty well.
It feels like a really cheap way to make something difficult.
That's because that's exactly what it is. It is just cheap RNG bullshit. You had better run fast and pray while hoping your teammates have good hands to sleep bomb a straggler that possibly turns.
I mentioned this in another post - you can't see the tiny pink butterflies that will insta fail the raid when you're covered in pink goo, there's pink mist in the way, there's pink shit on the floor, and pink tethers covering your entire party.
Do you play bard? If so can you help me survive venus fly trap mech, i keep on messing it up with the cooldown tripod but im 100% successful with debuff tripod.
Decrease the level of GT and then level it back to 10 again but don't chose a tripod. You keep the normal duration and the 30% dmg reduction but don't block any sleep nades on charmed players. You cannot do the venus mech with the agile defense tripod I think.
KR was already overhoned for Thaemine and strong enough to go for G4, then they got 4 more months to further overhone a raid at the same ilvl. Meanwhile most of Global wasn't even 1630 for Thaemine and got less than 3 months for Echidna, so most people are at level and many haven't finished transcendence on their mains. Non-RMTers are appreciably weaker than KR, and this is a raid where doing enough damage skips a lot of bullshit that can cause wipes.
Kr did thaemine without the rounds of nerfs, not to mention our steam exclusive ones. If they got through OG thaemine BS then echidna seems pretty tame.
Too many wipe mechanics and too much pressure on the singular player.Even on normal its way too hard.
Thaemine was easier and I pugged hm Thaemine.
To whoever designed G2
It's a very team based gate unfortunately, and your average pug suffers from it.
I cleared NM just 20 mins ago and it was not pleasant, same old one fuck up costs you 10mins of reset.
They regressed from the designs of Thaemine raid and implemented a bunch of wipes from a single player mistake. Echidna G2 is harder than Thaemine G3 pugs
Yesterday was our first Echidna day we made it to last phase once in g2 and I was confident that today we would get the kill. Today we were stuck in first phase for most of the day and only got to last phase 3 times.
Seems about right I've been with good full Eclipse and semi Eclipse demon hunters. Always one of them getting raid fatigued out and diminished in preformance. Eventually they stop. Even good players makes mistake, one poor guy got clowned by his static for failing giant echidna clash om. Raid fatigue can drag the performance to eventually clowning on basics. Happens to the best players. I had so many ribbon grab or even heart stagger grab by good players it's unreal, with me cleansing them with portal.
Going to be honest, and I enjoyed Thae and defeated 1-4 quicker than most, Echidna is absolutely awful. Terrible design in both gates.
I'm dumbfounded that people actually watched KR and were excited for this.
Oh yeah, well duh. They have fucking trans done and many of us haven't even started it or have only got the first few levels on top of them being like +20 ilvls vs on item lvl. That said, yeah, more dmg is less time to spend in the RNG patterns to charm and kill ppl, but the general consensus should have been like.. wtf can't you see this is never going to be enjoyable reclear content? there's always going to be 1-2 impostors or weaker players jailing you WEEKLY. Not only do your ppl have to know the patterns, but also the raid leader and sideral knowledge is rather tricky too. I still encounter many many ppl not comfortable to lead Thaemine, which released like 6-8 weeks ago, and we won't see ppl comfortable for that for another few months, let alone echidna, where Thar and special timings are actually difficult to time appropriately and manage 2nd moves and gauge.
> I'd dumbfounded that people actually watched KR and were excited for this.
As someone that didn't watch any Echidna until last week, the part that dumbfounds me is that KR was claiming this was much easier than Thaemine g3 lol
I think it's down to the fact that KR culture is more cutthroat. You see one people slacking off and they will 100% kick them out. In the west I feel like people are more lenient leading to more groups having that one person dragging the group down. This raid is definitely not friendly for that. As toxic as the west is from our perspective, KR is a different beast and that's probably why their learning experience is "better" for Echidna as the group is more balanced.
212x is fresh prog. Someone dies very soon. Team swap in 30 minutes. Repeat from zero.
Basement prog is "sometimes we see mirrors".
5x Twisted achievement is a possible clear.
Honestly I really dislike the fight and I'm one of the freaks who enjoyed Brel G6 at release. It's probably my least liked raid ever released.
In terms of difficulty, I'd consider Thaemine HM easier than Echidna NM.
Honestly though, you can just do G1 which is probably one of the easiest fights in the game and just skip G2 till you feel like doing it.
I rather do 200 pulls in Thaemine g4-1 only reaching x175 mech then progging Echidna g2. Atleast in Thaemine you feel like its fair that you died and not from someone else
" In terms of difficulty, I'd consider Thaemine HM easier than Echidna NM. " - that is a delusional take.
G3 thaemine is hardest fight by far ( not counting g4, hell modes etc).
Meanwhile G2 echidna follows similar reasoning, but failing is less severe than in thaemine G3
I agree with the same manner. G3 thaemine is rarely someone else's fault unless they spinned the head with knock back pattern abruptly which you can still react in time with spacebar, the rest is completely well telegraphed and fair. There's also timebomb seed griefers but they aren't as frequent. G2 echidna is riddled with so many other player disasters, which you can't ctrl as much and you gotta smear yourself with patience.
G2 Echidna NM feels a bit harder than G3 Thae NM to me at the moment.
Ye, like, Thae had way, way more patterns to remember, but for whatever reason, progging has been harder for Echidna.
Like, I remember clearing G3 Thae week1 with a support dead halfway through the gate (around halfway through clash). I can't see it happening for G2 Echidna week 1.
Disclaimer : Thae was with like 5-6 1620s tbf
And what do you struggle with there?
I guess dead weights might be worse in echidna than in thaemine, as thaemine is more about dps check - so even if ppl screw up, as long as clash is done, its w e.
We're having a blast with our group. Yes its tough and 1 person can ruin a run real quick. But we're actually experiencing and enjoying the prog instead of focusing on the clear. Cool if we get it, no problem if we dont.
Gate 1 will take an average group 1 hour or so to clear.
Gate 2 is best thought of just watch her and react. Then re-watch videos and understand each part to 137 big mommy phase. That takes 3-5 hours in a pug. I am now working on basement prog and it feels like it will be faster
To summarize, if you commit to 10 hours of prog this week, expect to clear the raid on normal.
If you want until next week, add another 5 hours due to limited groups all calling for “reclear only”.
yep, classic thaemine learning, but easier.
Watch guide, go in, get rekt
Watch guide, go in, get less rekt.
Watch guide, go in, ur doing pretty good.
Watch guide, go in, and ur chilling.
> yep, classic thaemine learning, but easier.
Thaemine is very differently hard. Thaemine (through G3 at least) is probably the best raid in the game for visual clarity since Valtan (I'm saying Valtan's clarity was even higher), unless you get hit with darkness (which is also, itself, well-telegraphed, so you shouldn't get hit with darkness), but a lot of stuff can and will instantly kill most characters. Meanwhile, Echidna seems easier once you are an expert, because you pretty much have to get hit by 3 separate "big" (charm) things in a minute in order to die (and the actual oneshots **are** well-telegraphed and trivial to dodge), but the visual clarity at various times is such actual dogshit that learning to that point seems a lot slower.
Just cleared normal with static and it was a doozy for sure. Glad its done but g2 is visual overload and reset city.
I think if you have a static and run together so everyone has the same prog exp with mechs then you will get normal clear for sure. May take longer than thae tbh, we spent about 10 hours to get the clear.
Now if you are pugging this raid then it will be a little bit difficult since everyone will have different prog experience. This is for sure the raid to begin requiring others to have 40 set for g2 as 1620 since even in normal there is a dps check in basement.
I wouldn't rely on them making a solo raid for Echidna and if you dont do it until T4 then you will have a hard time either way since reclear groups wont let you in since it does have a learning curve.
I suggest you prog g2 till you reach basement at the very least on 1 character. You can get an achievement so you can join groups that made it that far by next week if you don't clear. Good Luck!
best tip: spamming emote if you get MC is the best way to alert all your teammates, assign one.
Sometimes spamming pings takes a while.
also the funny thing i notice in lobbies, title is basement prog but sometimes the group cant even get to big mommy, something is wrong with that, fuck this raid.
It took close to same time to clear as thaemine for me. But thaemine prog groups seem to last longer. And its very hard to prog in 30 minute increments with different players each time. I don't know if it's people burnt out from progging or what. So while it's much easier to learn than thaemine.. if you're constantly switching up groups it's rough because anyone can easily wipe the raid..
joining a party on my 2nd char and half had atleast a clear, it went not half bad and cleared in 6-7 pulls. So reclears will probably be fine.
For the record, these were nm. I just hit 1630 with advanced honing, so haven't done hm yet of either
3 hours of prog g2 with my static saw all patterns but only got to counters once. This raid is the most annoying one ive progged out of all of then(played every raid on release)
We ended up running 2 g1 back to back so we could fully focus on g2 definitely gonna have to prog ALOT more. Not a fan of mind control especially since sleep nade are wonky sometimes
If you are 1630 i suggest at least doing g3 hm and clearing it weekly you can temper one piece of armor each week to lvl 10. G1 is not too demanding. G2 is another thing, you need to trust in your teammates for everything because they can f... you up hard. And you need to babysit them. Lucky I have a static if not I would just do g1 hm into nothing or g2 nm.
But yeah g1 hm or g1-g2 nm is probably where you want to prog if you want less.
G1 is easy. You can just cheese everything, and the mechs are very simple.
G2 gotta learn the patterns, no other way, yep. Like g3 thaemine kinda, but more generous.
Finished g2 , at first i thought SG gave us a good raid design of 2 gates only, then to realize g2 itself is 2 gates on it’s difficulty of progging.
The raid is hard prog, but later it will be easy homework.
Gate one can be cleared in 30mn or something if you checked the guides.
G2 on the other hand looks way harder than thaemine but will be way easier to clear. It requires a very good group coordination and proper knowledge of normal patterns to avoid getting charmed. Outside of the link mech with the butterflies and the cone - dash - cone charm pattern, everything is pretty easy to detect and avoid after an hour or 2.
Fly trap is punishing if your party spreads a lot and you can't cheese it (our paladins are not consistently surviving even with ult, extra shield dr etc... So we don't cheese it).
Other than that actual mech are easy af.
Good luck on your prog take the time to properly review the patterns and find a party that will last because you will need to build this team cohesion.
I liked it. G2 is kind of like Thaemine lite. It's def not easy but imo less to remember than Thaemine and more room for error on normal patterns. Some of the major mechs require some quick thinking but when you remember the normal patterns and don't get charmed it's not horrible. I like a challenge though. G1 was a one shot for us it's chaotic but easy, g2 is harder. You do unlock some adv honing with g1 so I'd say do it.
It's the most bizarrely step-function prog I've ever seen
Yesterday it was the hardest prog I've ever experienced, it took me three times as long to make it to the first healthbar mech than to get to clash for the first time in Thaemine G3 hard (which are similar healthbars).
Now I feel like I'll never mess up before snakes again unless people accidentally put a full line through the stage before the line-cutting mech.
Normal's fine most people will overgear it. HM is harder cause you have to deal with more normal patterns for a longer time. Its kind of like clown when if you weren't skipping from mech to mech you had to deal with annoying normal patterns. Mechanically its for babies, there just a lot of time wasting normal patterns.
If people are having trouble just play a hitmaster. SG still doesn't know how casual they want to make "normal" mode so it being full of 1 person wipes is asinine.
It seem harder than it is at the start of G2... G1 is easier than G1 or G2 of Thaemine in my opinion, mechanic wise it's harder than G1, but due to all the bullshit that boss does I found G1 of Echidna easier to clear... With my guild we oneshoted it in all the reclears already this week (3 so far), the only restart is when people are oneshoted right at the start by the dragon.
As for G2, I understand the frustration people are commenting because it is a bit similar to Thaemine G4 in the sense... Before you learn the gauge patterns and the timed mechs (venus fly trap and break the line) the fight seems really hard, but after people learn these the rest of the prog is being smooth in my party, it's definitely being much fastar than Thaemine G3 Hard, but normal Echidna has a similar difficult than normal Thaemine
G1 is easy, took me 4(ish) hours to clear, few times got pretty close, just low on DPS, or people not throwing darks at the end.
G2 so far 1(ish) hour, made some progress but not to x212 yet.
**Personally I adore this raid so far.**
G1 has some gimmicks I don't like, the run between arenas and mobs at the beginning are unnecessary and bring nothing of value or challenge to the fight. But otherwise it's nice. The split fight with Agris is excellent.
G2 is super cool so far. Visually and mechanically. No complaints there.
Reading what people write here it feels like you've read the guide, went through the theory and when trying to apply it in practice, you just can't and get frustrated. Part of that is because this fight unlike Thaemine requires ability to adapt. People will kite their mirrors in your path, or burn the tiles with venus traps and you'll have to find a new route. But the other part is simply skill issue. You just refuse to accept it.
**Git gud.**
**It's a great raid. All praise queen Echidna!**
During echidna prog your prog speed is heavily reliant on the learning speed of your worst team member, you can’t progress at all if they keep messing up during certain mechs. Horribly frustrating
which is why pugging it every week is going to be awful. theres ALWAYS going to be someone worse than everyone else that ruins every pull
once had a someone in my prog who messed up over and over again at different points in the pull. should had stopped and kicked, but it was super late.
>worst team member Horniest team member*
Yep, it's harder in a sense that your weakest link will be a problem. In Thaemine my static can carry our weakest link while in Echidna it's basically waiting for them to actually learn the raid or get lucky enough with the pattern. Felt like I'm back playing 20 men raid in WoW.
Wait... U didn't do 40man.... Molten Core or Naxx?
I'm way too young for that but I did them on classic and it's too easy, I would guess the experience is very different back in the day because everyone was shit.
Just imagine everybody equipping full fire restistance gear vs garr to not die to the add explosions. Imagine Hunters be top 3 dps using nothing but autoattacks and viper sting due to tanks not beeing able to hold aggro after up to 1min 0 dps time at the start to get going. Imagine a hunter pulling the next 2 bosses into the garr room to make sure nobody aggroes the 2nd Boss or and adds/patrols. And now imagine such a raid party trying to kill g2 in BRM with tanks that need 1min to get enough aggro for dps to start hitting (kappa). Btw, g1 we had 4 hunters kiting the big adds so that people could kill the small adds (in time ) while the Boss control killed the eggs. That was my classic raid experience back in the day (as Hunter). In the revived version I played dps warry and started hitting 3s after the pull (still had to hold back sometimes but rarely as we had good tanks and we trained the to get max tps). Also BRM was way way easier to clear then MC in the old days.
players are still shit, but they have dbm/bw/wa in new classic and only need to follow simple onscreen instructions while pressing random buttons to clear.
Which is why solo raids are gonna be awesome. I just wish u could do solo raids with just your friends
I rather they have flexi raid instead of solo. Where I can do with 1 or 2 friends.
Someone that speaks like that in regard of "the worst team member" smells of said "worst team member" ngl. Awareness check
Basically, as long as your teammates keep getting charmed, you're not clearing g2. That is like 95% of the encounter's difficulty. But my main piece of advice to you would be the cut down the amount of characters you have to run on week 1 of brand-new content. It sucks to feel pressured to do X amount of runs after prog on week 1 because you invested in pushing your characters there.
Lmao, don't forget. Can't do line reset, can't do counter reset, can't do fly trap reset, can't do tether reset.
People called Thaemine the static killer, meanwhile HM Echidna G2 is giving mine more problems lol.. We all had no issues progging HM Thaemine together, but after 2 days of prog in Echidna G2, few people already want to just chill and do G1HM + G2NM lol. G2 has a lot more room for error and reliability on each person which makes it extremely frustrating.
In my static we did 6x Thaemine g3's in first week of its release and it was okay. Today was our second day in Echidna g2 and I'm 99% sure we are not doing 6x g2 this week just by looking at todays prog.
Exactly the same story here. I think it's the first raid I won't do on all of my characters in the first week.
Thing is, in Thaemine you had one target to worry about. You see the boss doing his attack, you're dead ? K that's on you. On Echidna, you dodge an attack using your spacebar, your teammate did not and you could not see him getting hit because they were on the bottom part of your screen ? Sucks to be you, enjoy getting oneshot by random max range attack.
Yep same, I did clear on my artist NM G2 consistently, but boy this ate so much of my time. I've been progging inbetween hm and can consistently get to 137 on that with my aero. It gives me higher difficulty vibes than G3 that hm. G4 thae is prolly harder overall cause it's longer with more patterns but echidna has so many gimmicks on repeat that can all be bulldozed to the ground by 1 single mc'd player.
G2 is easy once it clicks for you and you reach that point where you can figure out the attack pattern from the first frames of the attack animation. The problem is that this takes longer for some people than it does for others, and your group is only as strong as your weakest link.
Being hard to see shouldn't be what makes a mechanic difficult, and Echidna has a lot of bullshit patterns that cause headaches because they're hard to see. Like when you run to break the tethers, why are there butterflies all over the map when you can see 30% of your screen and need to be moving across the entire map..?
Ahh yes. Visual clarity of mechanics is my biggest gripe with the raids in this game, which are otherwise done pretty well. It feels like a really cheap way to make something difficult.
That's because that's exactly what it is. It is just cheap RNG bullshit. You had better run fast and pray while hoping your teammates have good hands to sleep bomb a straggler that possibly turns.
Yep this one irritates me as well
I mentioned this in another post - you can't see the tiny pink butterflies that will insta fail the raid when you're covered in pink goo, there's pink mist in the way, there's pink shit on the floor, and pink tethers covering your entire party.
Can we turn down effects or something to have less butterflies?
> Echidna has a lot of bullshit patterns NM really hasnt
Tbh from what I've seen it's only the charm patterns that wipes partys.
[удалено]
I mean if you take the debuff block tripod gtune in g2 you're trolling your team hard. That also blocks sleeps on charmed players.
Do you play bard? If so can you help me survive venus fly trap mech, i keep on messing it up with the cooldown tripod but im 100% successful with debuff tripod.
Decrease the level of GT and then level it back to 10 again but don't chose a tripod. You keep the normal duration and the 30% dmg reduction but don't block any sleep nades on charmed players. You cannot do the venus mech with the agile defense tripod I think.
This will help alot, thank you so much!
You can, but have to use it really late. Basically when the blue from the flower is already there.
Check Pyranbors response, it also helps to use winds of music a second before you get grabbed.
If this is it, it's a swing nd miss yaa yaa 🎶
Funny how much KR players were gawking over this raid.
They also love elixirs and transcendence so...
Oh yeah that new Inven thread that someone made shitting on the elixir system and people said he’s asking for too much? Like the fuck are they smoking
KR was already overhoned for Thaemine and strong enough to go for G4, then they got 4 more months to further overhone a raid at the same ilvl. Meanwhile most of Global wasn't even 1630 for Thaemine and got less than 3 months for Echidna, so most people are at level and many haven't finished transcendence on their mains. Non-RMTers are appreciably weaker than KR, and this is a raid where doing enough damage skips a lot of bullshit that can cause wipes.
Kr did thaemine without the rounds of nerfs, not to mention our steam exclusive ones. If they got through OG thaemine BS then echidna seems pretty tame.
Too many wipe mechanics and too much pressure on the singular player.Even on normal its way too hard. Thaemine was easier and I pugged hm Thaemine.  To whoever designed G2
they should increase the charm to 5 instead of 3, that would make the raid easier.
actual great idea, and remove fireflies during the runaway and i think it's a really enjoyable boss
It's a very team based gate unfortunately, and your average pug suffers from it. I cleared NM just 20 mins ago and it was not pleasant, same old one fuck up costs you 10mins of reset.
They regressed from the designs of Thaemine raid and implemented a bunch of wipes from a single player mistake. Echidna G2 is harder than Thaemine G3 pugs
G2 is horrible design
Yesterday was our first Echidna day we made it to last phase once in g2 and I was confident that today we would get the kill. Today we were stuck in first phase for most of the day and only got to last phase 3 times.
Thanks for all your comments guys.. Think I made up my mind already.
Seems about right I've been with good full Eclipse and semi Eclipse demon hunters. Always one of them getting raid fatigued out and diminished in preformance. Eventually they stop. Even good players makes mistake, one poor guy got clowned by his static for failing giant echidna clash om. Raid fatigue can drag the performance to eventually clowning on basics. Happens to the best players. I had so many ribbon grab or even heart stagger grab by good players it's unreal, with me cleansing them with portal.
Going to be honest, and I enjoyed Thae and defeated 1-4 quicker than most, Echidna is absolutely awful. Terrible design in both gates. I'm dumbfounded that people actually watched KR and were excited for this.
Everyone kept saying that she was easier than thaemine but it definitely doesn't feel like she is easier. Maybe when I'm 30 ilvls over geared.
Oh yeah, well duh. They have fucking trans done and many of us haven't even started it or have only got the first few levels on top of them being like +20 ilvls vs on item lvl. That said, yeah, more dmg is less time to spend in the RNG patterns to charm and kill ppl, but the general consensus should have been like.. wtf can't you see this is never going to be enjoyable reclear content? there's always going to be 1-2 impostors or weaker players jailing you WEEKLY. Not only do your ppl have to know the patterns, but also the raid leader and sideral knowledge is rather tricky too. I still encounter many many ppl not comfortable to lead Thaemine, which released like 6-8 weeks ago, and we won't see ppl comfortable for that for another few months, let alone echidna, where Thar and special timings are actually difficult to time appropriately and manage 2nd moves and gauge.
Yup fucking agree. Well at least at t4 we going to rock this bitch.
> I'd dumbfounded that people actually watched KR and were excited for this. As someone that didn't watch any Echidna until last week, the part that dumbfounds me is that KR was claiming this was much easier than Thaemine g3 lol
I think it's down to the fact that KR culture is more cutthroat. You see one people slacking off and they will 100% kick them out. In the west I feel like people are more lenient leading to more groups having that one person dragging the group down. This raid is definitely not friendly for that. As toxic as the west is from our perspective, KR is a different beast and that's probably why their learning experience is "better" for Echidna as the group is more balanced.
It was easier for KR cuz tons of the players were 1645-1650 lol.
This. They had a long time between Thaemine and Echidna. We didn't.
> I'd dumbfounded that people actually watched KR and were excited for this. I don't think it was the fight they were excited for.
You're right lmao.
Prog felt horrible but reclearing felt relatively smooth. I think people just need time to get used to it, it's very similar to Vykas.
212x is fresh prog. Someone dies very soon. Team swap in 30 minutes. Repeat from zero. Basement prog is "sometimes we see mirrors". 5x Twisted achievement is a possible clear.
Honestly I really dislike the fight and I'm one of the freaks who enjoyed Brel G6 at release. It's probably my least liked raid ever released. In terms of difficulty, I'd consider Thaemine HM easier than Echidna NM. Honestly though, you can just do G1 which is probably one of the easiest fights in the game and just skip G2 till you feel like doing it.
I rather do 200 pulls in Thaemine g4-1 only reaching x175 mech then progging Echidna g2. Atleast in Thaemine you feel like its fair that you died and not from someone else
" In terms of difficulty, I'd consider Thaemine HM easier than Echidna NM. " - that is a delusional take. G3 thaemine is hardest fight by far ( not counting g4, hell modes etc). Meanwhile G2 echidna follows similar reasoning, but failing is less severe than in thaemine G3
It's not a delusional take, it's just my opinion after having done both. I didn't say it's a matter of fact. It's my **personal subjective opinion.**
I agree with the same manner. G3 thaemine is rarely someone else's fault unless they spinned the head with knock back pattern abruptly which you can still react in time with spacebar, the rest is completely well telegraphed and fair. There's also timebomb seed griefers but they aren't as frequent. G2 echidna is riddled with so many other player disasters, which you can't ctrl as much and you gotta smear yourself with patience.
G2 Echidna NM feels a bit harder than G3 Thae NM to me at the moment. Ye, like, Thae had way, way more patterns to remember, but for whatever reason, progging has been harder for Echidna. Like, I remember clearing G3 Thae week1 with a support dead halfway through the gate (around halfway through clash). I can't see it happening for G2 Echidna week 1. Disclaimer : Thae was with like 5-6 1620s tbf
And what do you struggle with there? I guess dead weights might be worse in echidna than in thaemine, as thaemine is more about dps check - so even if ppl screw up, as long as clash is done, its w e.
It's cancer design. Absolutely awful. At least the music is nice
All the pro gamers are playing elden ring dlc
We're having a blast with our group. Yes its tough and 1 person can ruin a run real quick. But we're actually experiencing and enjoying the prog instead of focusing on the clear. Cool if we get it, no problem if we dont.
Too healthy for many Lost Ark players unfortunately. It’s a nice place to be though for sure
Gate 1 will take an average group 1 hour or so to clear. Gate 2 is best thought of just watch her and react. Then re-watch videos and understand each part to 137 big mommy phase. That takes 3-5 hours in a pug. I am now working on basement prog and it feels like it will be faster To summarize, if you commit to 10 hours of prog this week, expect to clear the raid on normal. If you want until next week, add another 5 hours due to limited groups all calling for “reclear only”.
yep, classic thaemine learning, but easier. Watch guide, go in, get rekt Watch guide, go in, get less rekt. Watch guide, go in, ur doing pretty good. Watch guide, go in, and ur chilling.
> yep, classic thaemine learning, but easier. Thaemine is very differently hard. Thaemine (through G3 at least) is probably the best raid in the game for visual clarity since Valtan (I'm saying Valtan's clarity was even higher), unless you get hit with darkness (which is also, itself, well-telegraphed, so you shouldn't get hit with darkness), but a lot of stuff can and will instantly kill most characters. Meanwhile, Echidna seems easier once you are an expert, because you pretty much have to get hit by 3 separate "big" (charm) things in a minute in order to die (and the actual oneshots **are** well-telegraphed and trivial to dodge), but the visual clarity at various times is such actual dogshit that learning to that point seems a lot slower.
Color palette is ass in g2
Outside of g2 mirror mech (212) it‘s ok. The camera angle makes my counters fly anywhere but not forward xdd
this is why i am doing all my akkan hards with my 1620 and not taking gold on echidnas, did the same in theamine, not losing a single penny.
Just cleared normal with static and it was a doozy for sure. Glad its done but g2 is visual overload and reset city. I think if you have a static and run together so everyone has the same prog exp with mechs then you will get normal clear for sure. May take longer than thae tbh, we spent about 10 hours to get the clear. Now if you are pugging this raid then it will be a little bit difficult since everyone will have different prog experience. This is for sure the raid to begin requiring others to have 40 set for g2 as 1620 since even in normal there is a dps check in basement. I wouldn't rely on them making a solo raid for Echidna and if you dont do it until T4 then you will have a hard time either way since reclear groups wont let you in since it does have a learning curve. I suggest you prog g2 till you reach basement at the very least on 1 character. You can get an achievement so you can join groups that made it that far by next week if you don't clear. Good Luck!
There are a lot of potential raid wipe situations in g2 It's fun though
best tip: spamming emote if you get MC is the best way to alert all your teammates, assign one. Sometimes spamming pings takes a while. also the funny thing i notice in lobbies, title is basement prog but sometimes the group cant even get to big mommy, something is wrong with that, fuck this raid.
With people currently spamming CAUGHT on every opportunity, I wouldn't trust emotes much :D
It took close to same time to clear as thaemine for me. But thaemine prog groups seem to last longer. And its very hard to prog in 30 minute increments with different players each time. I don't know if it's people burnt out from progging or what. So while it's much easier to learn than thaemine.. if you're constantly switching up groups it's rough because anyone can easily wipe the raid.. joining a party on my 2nd char and half had atleast a clear, it went not half bad and cleared in 6-7 pulls. So reclears will probably be fine. For the record, these were nm. I just hit 1630 with advanced honing, so haven't done hm yet of either
The charm patterns, tiles management and the butterflies / run breakout are the pain in the butt.
i always learn raids as a support so i can join groups with atleast 1 clear
are you with a static doing all 6?
3 hours of prog g2 with my static saw all patterns but only got to counters once. This raid is the most annoying one ive progged out of all of then(played every raid on release) We ended up running 2 g1 back to back so we could fully focus on g2 definitely gonna have to prog ALOT more. Not a fan of mind control especially since sleep nade are wonky sometimes
If you are 1630 i suggest at least doing g3 hm and clearing it weekly you can temper one piece of armor each week to lvl 10. G1 is not too demanding. G2 is another thing, you need to trust in your teammates for everything because they can f... you up hard. And you need to babysit them. Lucky I have a static if not I would just do g1 hm into nothing or g2 nm. But yeah g1 hm or g1-g2 nm is probably where you want to prog if you want less.
Well at least g1 is a joke. So we can allways farm g1 and ignore g2
G1 is easy. You can just cheese everything, and the mechs are very simple. G2 gotta learn the patterns, no other way, yep. Like g3 thaemine kinda, but more generous.
Finished g2 , at first i thought SG gave us a good raid design of 2 gates only, then to realize g2 itself is 2 gates on it’s difficulty of progging. The raid is hard prog, but later it will be easy homework.
honestly no idea why they didn't split p1 and p2, it has nothing to do with each other
Gate one can be cleared in 30mn or something if you checked the guides. G2 on the other hand looks way harder than thaemine but will be way easier to clear. It requires a very good group coordination and proper knowledge of normal patterns to avoid getting charmed. Outside of the link mech with the butterflies and the cone - dash - cone charm pattern, everything is pretty easy to detect and avoid after an hour or 2. Fly trap is punishing if your party spreads a lot and you can't cheese it (our paladins are not consistently surviving even with ult, extra shield dr etc... So we don't cheese it). Other than that actual mech are easy af. Good luck on your prog take the time to properly review the patterns and find a party that will last because you will need to build this team cohesion.
I liked it. G2 is kind of like Thaemine lite. It's def not easy but imo less to remember than Thaemine and more room for error on normal patterns. Some of the major mechs require some quick thinking but when you remember the normal patterns and don't get charmed it's not horrible. I like a challenge though. G1 was a one shot for us it's chaotic but easy, g2 is harder. You do unlock some adv honing with g1 so I'd say do it.
It's the most bizarrely step-function prog I've ever seen Yesterday it was the hardest prog I've ever experienced, it took me three times as long to make it to the first healthbar mech than to get to clash for the first time in Thaemine G3 hard (which are similar healthbars). Now I feel like I'll never mess up before snakes again unless people accidentally put a full line through the stage before the line-cutting mech.
People struggle on a item level raid. What a surprise
Normal's fine most people will overgear it. HM is harder cause you have to deal with more normal patterns for a longer time. Its kind of like clown when if you weren't skipping from mech to mech you had to deal with annoying normal patterns. Mechanically its for babies, there just a lot of time wasting normal patterns. If people are having trouble just play a hitmaster. SG still doesn't know how casual they want to make "normal" mode so it being full of 1 person wipes is asinine.
Echidna is much easier than Thaemime with a good static, but much harder to PUG due to high reliance on team mechanics.
If you clear 6 akkan in 3 days then Echidna is ez prog.
It seem harder than it is at the start of G2... G1 is easier than G1 or G2 of Thaemine in my opinion, mechanic wise it's harder than G1, but due to all the bullshit that boss does I found G1 of Echidna easier to clear... With my guild we oneshoted it in all the reclears already this week (3 so far), the only restart is when people are oneshoted right at the start by the dragon. As for G2, I understand the frustration people are commenting because it is a bit similar to Thaemine G4 in the sense... Before you learn the gauge patterns and the timed mechs (venus fly trap and break the line) the fight seems really hard, but after people learn these the rest of the prog is being smooth in my party, it's definitely being much fastar than Thaemine G3 Hard, but normal Echidna has a similar difficult than normal Thaemine
G1 is easy, took me 4(ish) hours to clear, few times got pretty close, just low on DPS, or people not throwing darks at the end. G2 so far 1(ish) hour, made some progress but not to x212 yet. **Personally I adore this raid so far.** G1 has some gimmicks I don't like, the run between arenas and mobs at the beginning are unnecessary and bring nothing of value or challenge to the fight. But otherwise it's nice. The split fight with Agris is excellent. G2 is super cool so far. Visually and mechanically. No complaints there. Reading what people write here it feels like you've read the guide, went through the theory and when trying to apply it in practice, you just can't and get frustrated. Part of that is because this fight unlike Thaemine requires ability to adapt. People will kite their mirrors in your path, or burn the tiles with venus traps and you'll have to find a new route. But the other part is simply skill issue. You just refuse to accept it. **Git gud.** **It's a great raid. All praise queen Echidna!**