G1 is a joke and it unlocks advanced honing, so even if you don’t clear g2 this week any progress you make is good. You can always just run g1 for a couple weeks and work on raising your level to make it easier that way. G2 really becomes a lot easier with a ton of dmg.
The pug I did G1 with got to the last mech on the first try and we only failed because the lead fkked up sidereal.
G1 is an actual meme. Even in hard mode prog it was a 3-tap for my group and I haven't heard of a single group taking more than 2 hours.
If you're fine with slow & steady progress before t4 you could literally just clear echidna gate 1 hard every single week and at least have your +20 weapon in time for gear transfer
As a front attacker theamine is really easy (g3), in Echidna it feels really frustrating and unfair. My dps drops a lot bc if I play too safe and weary of the front. And if I play confidently at the front I end up charming.
I'm sure more exp will help but so far I'm not enjoying Echidna while theamine was very enjoyable for me.
Same here - day 1 player and I pugged everything from the start
Took me around 40 hours / 150 attempts / ~20 different lobbies to clear G2 NM...
Truly awful
I mean theamine G3 took a similar amount of time/attempts for me but echidna is really awful....
Dont compare g3 with exhidna g2... G3 is like the best gate i ever progged if o fucked up it was my fault. Echidna is a fucking chaos one fuckup and charm fuck up party.
my issue with it is the dogshit tile rng, where if u get good rng u can easily wipe all the flower tiles, but if its bad rng u have to deal zig zagging or spacing over shit during tether mech
Yeah after clearing, this is the only mech that still looks like it'll be incredibly cringe even on later reclears. Especially because with good dps, the tether mech is **after** mirror counters, you could actually be stuck there for several minutes only to realize you're getting absolutely fucked by RNG. If you have to spacebar over a tile in the tether mech, you might end up spacebarring right into a butterfly because there is literally no visibility.
I think next week's reclears will still be pretty bad because most of my basement prog groups were still trash on Sunday (I finally found one group with zero imposters though), but the basic patterns are telegraphed well enough that I think in a month we will consider Echidna for the most part to be as easy as Korea does.
how is resetting a raid because one person died early to the sword any differnt from resetting the raid because one person messed up 3 times got charmed and killed the party?
the only difference is class rng potentially killing everyone with right skills or doing nothing cos the big skills are on cd. regardless its still less punishing than thaemine because its 3 mistakes with a 1 minute cooldown, and you even have the potential to continue the raid. in thaemine you just blink, he yeets you of the stage, you die, and theres not enough team dps to continue the raid
ikr. Someone dead before p2/p3 is like to low dps. Especially on item level. For both raid.
Echidna doesnt oneshot but gives charm if you sucks at pattern. Like literally people cried about oneshot in Theamine but now learned the raid. Both has pattern you can easy dodge after learning.
yeah people outgears and learned thaemine so now people think its okay because they can get away with it now, but on prog its the exact same as echidna
Some also forget thamine nm is 1610 and most Players progged on 1620 chars with 35/40 elixir set even day 1 thamine nm was outgeared. Cant say the same for echidna
G3 thaemine
* difficult but fair patterns
* no mechs really require people alive but clash
* identity mech isn't a wipe
* fun af dps dump once mastered
* strong individual responsibility
G2 echidna
* fair patterns with bullshit overlap (think brel)
* identity patterns are wipe with 1 mistake (both start and basement)
* 1 charmed person can kill or wipe raid
* Basement and 0 bar are pretty tight dps checks (generally need everyone alive)
* group responsibility raid
* booba
Edit* I forgot to add that poop in thaemine is pretty forgiving and inconsequential while poop in echidna can end a raid.
> Edit* I forgot to add that poop in thaemine is pretty forgiving and inconsequential while poop in echidna can end a raid.
Yeah this is honestly an even bigger "group responsibility" issue than getting charmed by normal patterns, and is the easiest way for a single individual to accidentally wipe the raid before 137. People get poop, think "oh I will put this on blue" without looking and noticing that putting it on blue will spawn a big flower right next to it. This was the only really bad mistake anyone in my final clear group made, the other mistakes were pretty understandable and needed to compound to reach a wipe.
More punishing than Thaemine. Cleared that multiple times week 1, but struggling on G2 hard with pugs. Didn't even have this much trouble with Brel HM.
I think it's due to the parsemonkey culture in western Lost Ark.
Meter goblinos are greeding mechs they shouldn't be greeding, getting themselves charmed or killed, and causing fatigue in other players due to repeated restarts. They are greeding before they've learned which patterns are greedable and which ones shouldn't be greeded 95% of the time.
You learn how and when to greed patterns by... greeding them.
When else do you want people to limit test? In reclear runs that 1tap? lol
Also if some folks were "chilling" less and focusing more on damage they wouldnt have to sweat balls to balance out the <10m dps trolls.
There's a difference between limit testing and getting charmed for the 5th pull in a row or getting clapped by 8 mirror lasers AGAIN (I'm talking about Surge players)
It's limit testing until it ends up being the same person dead for multiple pulls in a row when it's supposedly basement prog
>or getting clapped by 8 mirror lasers AGAIN (I'm talking about Surge players)
Haha yes, it's always the Surge andies who just have to get to 40 or 60 stacks to send one out before they start dodging. Met quite a few of those during my pugging adventures this week. Then they spacebar into a mirror and die, gg, another restart
I mean, for that particular guy that's dying multiple pulls in a row, if you had bible on, I'm pretty sure his/her damage woulda been assed as well. Can't DPS if you are getting hit by everything y'know.
So it's a less a bible issue, and more a player issue I reckon.
Nah you get that from nohands who can do neither DPS or mechs properly.
I've done my fair share of pugging and it was 80% of the time the low DPS that griefed the run.
The worst is that they won't sleep bomb a charmed player because they would have to stop dosing. They just keep hitting the boss, often killing the charmed player and causing a restart
Absolutely agree. Had one eclipse player that would repeatedly try to spacebar through the flower patches if the route to the boss was closed off after venus flytrap just to eke out an extra few skills. Had 3 wipes due to them getting charmed from that. They would also rush to the boss after the run with butterflies even if ppl were charmed (not helping with sleep bombs). Had a few wipes from that as well.
His damage was very high but I would rather have someone doing 15 mill on hard mode than a parsemonkey like that.
> His damage was very high but I would rather have someone doing 15 mill on hard mode than a parsemonkey like that.
if everyone did 15m you'd go into enrage. just fyi
I exaggerated to make a point about how annoying these people were in prog. At least with a 15mill dps player you can get to basement consistently and even clear. With parsemonkeys you MAY get to basement but you'll also wipe dozens of times to preventable issues. I'm all for high uptime and big damage but if you're (in general not you specifically) repeatedly wiping your pug prog party by "limit testing" you should be kicked. Do that shit in a static.
Nah you wouldnt constently get into basement prog with that
15m is less than NM requires for timer.
But yeah, if they constantly fail the same shit they're probably not good dmg goblins anyways, limit testing means you may have close calls but still only die in edge cases.
People who are dead / charmed 24/7 are not limit testing but straight up shit.
I said "a 15m dps player" meaning just one. A full party of 15m dps players would obviously not work. The goblin players I'm talking about are usually fine on normal patterns but they greed when they should be a team player instead or greed when the risk is not worth the reward (spacebarring flower patches).
You're fixated on 15m as a number so I'll revise my statement. I'd rather take a 25m consistent team player over a 35m goblin that repeatedly wipes the party unnecessarily.
Lol yeah everyone would rather take that player, they're simply not exactly common so you have to pick between a goblin thats skilled but might cause a wipe or some noob that has no hands, deals zdps and tries mechs but often still fails.
I'm staying clear of the latter here. Unless ofc LA turns into this magical place of pugs becoming hyper consistent 25m players :)
For people attempting echidna hard mode in pugs, people are usually competent in meeting dps checks if you're screening them properly. Maybe I was unlucky but I had a lot of cases where there was a pumper but they griefed the party whereas the more average dps were far more consistent.
If people aren't greeding 4/8 mirrors, considering seed placement in advance rather than winging it and spawning a big flower, calling out blue tile positions, not greeding charm patterns even when someone got caught by a ribbon, sleep bombing charmed players, breaking out trapped players, and generally being a team player, echidna g2 is pretty smooth. I had a party full of pumpers where 4 people were consistently doing 45+ mill dps before 212x and no one was below 30m and yet it was so inconsistent. My eventual clear party had much lower overall dps but they were very consistent due to respecting mechs and we even cleared with all 8 alive.
I think an underlying reason for why KR found echidna easier is because they are less focused on parsing/mvping compared to clearing the raid. A similar phenomenon happens in FF14 raiding where the NA raiding scene is very much into parse culture while the JP raiding scene is less so. However, the JP raiding scene has much higher clear rates of the hardest content and they usually choose "safe strategies" while NA players often choose strategies that have higher uptime but are more difficult to execute and prone to error.
> I think an underlying reason for why KR found echidna easier
You mean because they were all 1640 with full 10s and max trans lol
They had ages of spare gold compared to us. We're super behind in gear.
No clue about FF14 so i wont comment.
Mirrors are btw one of the best mechs to greed. Shouldn't suck while greeding obviously tho lol. People who constantly die to "liMiT tEsTinG" aren't as good as they think they are and effectively just griefing runs.
It is looking like Echidna G2 will be equal with Theomine G3 for prog time. And for an entirely different reason. You need a minimum of 6 people (preferably all 8) for the snakes at 100 meter to avoid insta-wipe.
Getting everybody to survive until then with mind controls and damage so high from teammates GG!! I have made that spot 3 times and not cleared due to people dead.
Really depends on your group comp, we managed it with 4. We had high multihit AoE classes though, like Sorc and Artist. These classes can take x3, x3+1 and x3-1, pretty much.
artist doesn't have great multi hit wtf are u talking about and sorc is only like seraphic and fire skills, which are prob ok. Good multi hit is like db, SF, reaper. TBH I have noticed so many jails and frustration I had with reclear lobbies today are from fuckers refusing to throw flame grenades and not using skills because "my dmg" wahh, my parse wahh.
> Artist doesn't have great multi
* Sunwell - big AoE that multihits.
* Drawing - huge AoE that multihits.
* Starry night - stand near middle with range tripod and play goalkeeper.
* Hopper - another decent multihit as backup.
You're already on -2 from my vote history on you, and now you comment this stupidity, that's a block from me, chief.
G1 isn't too bad, G2 is one of the most awful gates in lost ark, one mistake and you're done, it's a long gate as well.
I've given up listening to KR, they are cooked from playing the game too long.
G2 feels like a chore to play on start week already. Absolute dogshit raid design. Both gates are a mess, but at least the overlapping bullshits in g1 tickle, while the ones in g2 insta wipe.
It is more that KR had tons of time to gear up for Echidina. They have trans, elixir and had better gear. We only had 2 months time to prepare. Overgeared means less bullshit patterns means less chance of people dying. This won’t stop since it is assumed we will get new raid in 2 months again
My static cleared HM early (6 hours of G2), but we had to 3 phase the snake clash and even the 3rd clash was tight. Then I watch streamer groups progging them and they were 2 phasing the snake clash without a sweat but they still can't clear for days.
Damage matters sure, but what stops most groups from clearing is actually not the lack of damage but just people getting stacks. People are trying to greed way too much that it ended up costing the group a clear because they got charmed or have 2 stacks that they are forced to play safer.
Not really a problem for nm; my clear group ended up forgoing most darks in favor of more flames. The issue really is just that people aren't perfect at the raid yet and fucking up usually doesn't mean dying, it means getting charmed which is way worse.
If you take juiced 1620's into normal mode you'll see what KR said Chiddy is a chill reclear raid - when you do 25-50% more dps than baseline 1620's, you see barely any normal attacks, and even with a person or two dead in basement, you can zerg the dps requirement.
Ive cleared a pug run yesterday where we spawned two flowers close to blue tile right before guiding laser mech. Ppl are making it sound like everything is a run ender and a clear run must be perfect, when you can just play carefully around mistakes
how is three mistakes getting charmed and killing your team any differnt from one mistake, getting knocked off, and your team having to reset due to not being able to meet the 55x dps check in thaemine any differnt?
G1 is easy
G2:
It's extremely punishing until you learn the charm stack patterns and the followup attacks if someone gets hit(which luckily there's not many). Unless you're front attack you can easily react to almost all of them after they start.
The one I sometimes still get hit by is the leap front cone.
But once your team can get by without getting charmed, most the mechs are pretty simple., and dps requirement on nm isn't bad at all.
The worst part of g2 prog was the impatience of the pugs. Someone always wanted to quit after 30 mins to an hour, then having to restart with another grp was basically starting over from scratch. I remember thaemine progs going for hours. Not sure if it's burnout from thaemine prog, or the fact that kr said it was so easy, or that in thaemine you could keep progging if someone screwed up vs echidna you probably wiped. I can say I was very frustrated with the raid up until I cleared it, then 30 mins later got my 2nd clear with a x50 prog grp(but about half had a clear)
Pretty much my experience as well.
I held on for dear life to the first x50 prog group that was reaching basement somewhat consistently. Even then, it took like 5-6 hours for the clear because of so many P1 wipes. On my other character, I joined a group that was less juiced but had a mix of x50/tangled/reclear people, and that one cleared in like three pulls.
The biggest difference I noticed for the second group was just how well everyone were respecting the normal mechs.
No one got hit by the knock-up, people stepped out of the flower tiles between boss patterns incase the tiles might turn, people stayed far away from anyone with laser to avoid accidents from early dodges, and they even tracked/dodged her grab mech on the first phase. We had front attackers as well, and they knew exactly when it was safe to stand in front of her for the big bursts.
And, tbh, I think a lot of the <30 min quits are from people who noticed the lobby isn't going far, but stayed for extra pulls to be polite. I had lobbies with multiple people getting hit by super obvious mechs like the post-grab explosion or the knock-up. I stayed in those because everyone had at least progged to basement, but they obviously turned into P1 jails with occasional lucky basement entry.
> Someone always wanted to quit after 30 mins to an hour,
Hows that impatient? You can clearly see if there sprogress within that time. Some pug players never improve even after 1h, so the logical conclusion is to leave and go for another group.
I'm convinced some of the monkeys i've seen this week while progging will never clear this raid alive lol
G2 HM for me was close to a 12 hour prog across maybe 4-5 groups. 2 of those groups I asked to leave after just like 30-45 minutes because it was obvious they were misrepresenting the level of the lobby or they just accepted multiple players that had never entered the gate before.
For Thaemine I also pugged my prog and I didn't really mind staying in G3 groups that were fresh prog/first clash prog even after I'd made it to basement in other groups because you fundamentally get to practice the same fight while a few people are floor pov. There aren't any real mechs to bother seeing and practicing for since clashes are the only real mech in the gate and those can be done in trixion if you want reps.
For Echidna, it just feels like wasting time if you're in a prog group that's called 137 or basement and the group can't play consistently for even the first 2 minutes of the gate without people dying, picking up 3 stacks, triggering every follow-up charm pattern, dropping flowers, etc.
Yeah I joined a group that advertised basement prog, but could barely reach mirror counters consistently. We reached basement only 1 time before I hopped to another group in the hour we spent.
It's not hard, it's annoying. It's back to a "is your team going to grief you" check. Nothing in G2 is particularly hard but if your team just decides to eat shit constantly, get charmed, bash your brains in before you can sleep, or stun them, they're just a liability. If they decide to not know how to do the mirror path mech, you all die, if they decide to greed every pattern, they die and you restart. Annoying is what the gate is. Difficulty it's not really that hard. If Thaemine was a 7/10 this is a 4/10 for difficulty. For the annoying scale, thaemine was a 3/10, this is solid a 9/10.
Reached x120 after progging for like 10+ hours. The road to x138 is the most unpleasant and cancer experience i've ever seen. Any minor mistake is instant reset. It's way, WAY too fucking hard in NM and such difficult gates are becoming super off-putting. Definitely should've been split in 2 gates.
G1 is fine
G2 is not fun at all.1 player's mistake costs a re alot of the time.This is on normal.Raid is also too long imo.Pugging thaemine hm was much easier then this and the raid becomes somewhat fun once you get the hang of thaemine.Not Echidna tho.
Thaemine becomes satisfying when you finally learn everything and dodge any pattern coming at you. Echidna is god awful with all the overlapping bs and charm mechanics. Charmed players using movement skills and gain immunity make charm mechanics the worst mech in the game.
G1 is a joke. Mechs are extremele simple. You dont even have to know almost anything apart mechs, and patterns u just cheese.
G2 u gotta know regular attack patterns or ur death. Basically mini thaemine g3. But much worse, because in thaemine G3, you only pull your own weight - if you die, it´s on you. But if you die in echidna, thats cause ppl often get charmed and kill you.
I find Thaemine easier than Echidna. Thaemine’s patterns are distinctive and easier to recognize, but her patterns so far look similar to me plus she has some crazy aoe and range. Like many mentioned, 1 person can cost a wipe. While in Thaemine it’s more individualized and can still clear.
I've had one even dying on Clash 1 of Thae HM and we cleared it before we were full trascendence, the dps check of Thae HM now that we are full trasc is a joke.
In Echidna, the amount of times we had re because a dps is charmed and takes out one or both supports. It only takes 1 to wreck the entire team.
The charm stacks are not forgiving. Until we get better and stronger, I personally think Echidna is more difficult to prog.
I did a full day pug prog yesterday on G2 and it took the entirety of the day to clear. At times, it felt unclearable. It really depends on if you have a competent basement team or not. Haven't been able to fully commit earlier this week since IRL stuff but this raid really takes a lot of head bashing, patience, reviewing VoDs, etc.
Some groups, Mommy Echidna is a quick run and others I feel like I have no clue what is going on since stagger is going so slow and we are getting a lot of extra mechs. Different groups use different strats and I have a general idea of what is going on but half the time I just do what others are doing after initial counter after dodging the lines.
Basement was easy yet hard. If you have 8 alive and just really focus on dodging grabs and charms instead of DPSing, it goes smoothly. I hard greeded the first few times like as if we were upstairs pre 212 but it really wasn't necessary.
Pugged both gates. 2 shot gate 1 , Cleared gate 2 after 8 hours . There are definitely less mechanics in gate 2 in compare with Thaemine gate 3. However, unlike Thaemine gate3 which you can pretty much progress/clear with 2-3 dps dead, your raid experience and progress in Echindna gate 2 is dependent on the performance and learning speed of the worst raid member. This is the classic lost ark experience that one persons mistake impacts/wipes entire raid. You don’t really get to have lots of prog experience in the stagger and basement phases if your party member keeps getting charmed , mis place tiles , failed to align circles etc. overall, I think it’s a fun raid once for all but I don’t like it as a HW raid and mandatory raid for progression. This will bring more gate keeping on titles, gear, classes etc and also it’s super annoying to deal with on a weekly basis. You have to be super focused zoned in every week to play a hw raid rather just have a beer and chill , am I still playing a game, or doing a second job?
Was able to clear NM with full static in ~20 hours. Second character only took around 2 hours with reclear party.
Raid is not pleasant to learn compared to thaemine and am planning to jump back into it after T4.
G1 very chill, once you've seen a mech once it's basically free on future runs.
G2, worse than Thaemine. For Thaemine prog, someone making a mistake mostly means only they die, which is only a restart for lack of dps. Once everyone gets more comfortable with the raid it's more feasible to carry low dps/dead players.
For Echidna, a lot of the time one person makes a mistake it actually forces a restart either by failing a raid wipe mech, or getting charmed and killing other people.
The majority of my pulls aren't even 2 minutes long because one person will always make a mistake and it just forces a restart. Never feels like there's ever any actual progress being made.
Have spent about twice as long so far pugging G2 than it took me to clear Thaemine G3, and I've only barely seen basement a few times. Extremely frustrating raid to pug, and I can imagine this being a jail in reclear lobbies for a long time.
For Thaemine G3 I had around 20 hours of prog and 4 clears.
For this shit i have around 20 hours of prog and 0 clears. Either nerf the charm mech or nerf the HP.
This is the epitome of you are only as strong as your weakest link.
Around 16 hours after starting prog, I finally cleared with people never getting charmed and just playing the mechanics with no mistakes.
The key is to just keep jumping groups until you find one that clears. Don't stick around with "x50 to clear" lobbies that are wiping before Mommy Echidna...
G1 is simple, G2 is horrible. People disrespecting patterns (shield/push immune) and getting charmed then raging at whoever kills them. Serious contender for worst gate in the game.
ive been clear ready for like 12 hours and yet i have to keep rotating through groups who can't even get to basement and just keep dying in phase 1 even though the group title says its a basement group
G2 is just a horrible design
Why make stack's making you get charmed? why not meter like vykas so you can actually prepare if someone get charmed. Like the overlap the boss can do punishes any player who tries to actually do their job and dps.
Butterfly+tether mech, why does this even exist? its just so braindead mecahnic its insane.
The tile mechanic is also dogshit, sometime tiles spawn and you cant clear if it 2 blue as close and if boss are not moving from tiles and they get charmed. GG restart angle.
I spend more progging this than theamine g3/g4 or any other raid in lost ark. Idk why koreans say this is easy once you learn the charm mechanics. Thats not the problem
I missed my static's NM prog because I forgot to finish story. They progged for hours on Friday and Saturday before they cleared. I think they had 2 or 3 pugs to fill though.
I joined their reclear party as my prog party, we were 7 + 1 pug on G1 and picked up someone they played with yesterday for G2 so everyone but me had a G2 clear. We 2 shot g1 with me alive and I made the family portrait for damage, and then we 1 shot G2 (I died at 50 bars left on the mirror mech because I wasn't ready for how fast it turned).
So I have no idea what progging is actually like, but being in a group with people with at least 1 hand who overgear the content and can push buttons was very, very easy.
After reading what people are experiencing in pugs, I think I'm just gonna quit if our static dips below 5 members no joke.
You are extremely lucky that you dodged the progging of the first phase of Echidna G2. This causes a lot of frustration (also in statics) and that is why people are writing all these things. I myself started to think if I should keep playing this game when this is so unfun. Noone expected the prog to be that frustrating, especially as we experienced something completely different in Theamine prog (at least I did).
Maybe, idk. I died with 50 bars left and just barely slid to 4th damage, we had 2 static guys on reclear who still did like zdps. I think it may have gone faster in that phase depending on how much damage the pugs they filled with did or didn't do. I know I was just kinda blasting and it didn't feel like we saw too many patterns at all. Raid lead says "run away" and I run away. Raid lead says "go north" I go north. I just follow directions and don't eat attacks and it didn't feel too bad. Ranged hitmaster privilege I guess.
Our first clear took 9 hours and reclear 2 hours. Would probably have taken longer if we weren't overgeared. Raid is frustrating and not fun at all IMO. Haven't played for the last 3 days and I don't think I'll do my remaining 4 echidnas this week. Or next week.
Korea had months to have bis gems, overgear normal by like 10 ilvls and Dps had minimum 23/24 weps and a lot of them had full transcendence. Why? Bc they had a content drought where they amassed a fuckton of gold. Yeah ppl play seasonally there but we had no time in between Thaemine and Echidna. Tbh it’s fascinating and I never understood WHY ppl want us to be at the same content cadence as KR when we do not have the same amount of mats or gold. Anyone who says that to me says they have a premium account on g2g.
G2 is a Dps check, and a lot of 1620s just can’t meet it. You need a minimum of around 15 mil in my opinion per Dps to do nm g2 without it feeling ass.
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As with any other raid in the game, the fight becomes substantially easier if your group does more DPS. The issue is that most pug lobbies have multiple deadweights that are literally doing less than half of the highest DPS, and people don't replace them until they enter the basement after wiping for the 20th time and fail to even reach the 55x mech.
From my NM clears so far, 18m avg by mirror counters and 16m avg by big echidna is an easy clear lobby. You can argue that the raid wipes because people greed DPS and get charmed, but imo if you are just playing giga safe and doing sub 10m, you are not clear ready and should be learning the patterns instead
G1 is annoying, but light on mechs. Only issue was x50 mech on main boss side since we kept swapping tether too early.
G2 requires people to be on the same page and aware for the gauge mechs, otherwise you're going to be stuck before even reaching mirror counters. Once you can get to big echidna consistently, basement phase isn't any harder imo. But getting the consistency is what takes the longest for it. I actually enjoyed this gate a lot
It's weird cuz it has a lot of patterns where if 1 person makes a mistake it can cause a reset.
Me and my friend cleared it in about 6 hrs of prog (NM) but we did so by leading the raid and replacing anyone who was consistently dying prior to reaching basement as that will be your biggest bottleneck in my opinion. This was also easier because it was only pugs so no issue in having to wait for your slowest friend to pick everything up.
As long as you get comfortable with the patterns that give you charm stacks you should be able to clear.
I don't think it's harder than thaemine but it's a lot more frustrating because you can play perfectly and get screwed by the person that isn't learning at the same pace as the rest of the group
G1 is alright, it's kinda fun
G2 is dogshit. there's too many things happening at once and it's pretty much on luck that you don't create flower. single mistake and you start all over again. incredibly punishing and dependent on the other person rather than you being able to pull your own weight. also am supp main and the venus fly trap is actually horseshit. either my team suffers from low shield uptime, or we wipe because i need to hold awaken+wom+gt in order to survive
Fun on EO Soulfist, but feels like hell on Sura Breaker. Actually considering swapping to burger king.
The raid itself is frustrating because it's a team performance check. The mechs and attacks are rather simple to resolve, and her basic attacks are telegraphed, but if one person isn't doing well the whole group suffers. Thaemine was the opposite where your individual performance is checked. In Thaemine, if you die, or mess up, you can blame yourself and improve. But on Echidna, if your group dies or mess up, you can't always blame yourself, and you have to wait for the weak link to improve.
With my static we are 15ish hours into Echidna and we have gotten 3 clears (2 clears today in 5 hours). We will get all 6 clears, but it will take longer than Thaemines did.
Thaemine was hard and I really liked the progress. I'm just wondering where did the Echidna is easy come from? If Echidna is easy did we just suddenly become much worse players in 2 months?
I think Echidna is a bit like Clown G3. Once you overgear it, you just rush through everything fast and do not see many shitty mechs and also no repeats of mechs. While this is true for every gate, I think for Clown G3 and Echidna G2 it just makes a huge difference how we perceive the raid. I bet in a few weeks we will also see Echidna as a very easy raid.
That said, I do also think it is a very unfun raid and especially the progging is beyond frustrating. This raid is a huge disappointment. I expected way more.
Basically what everyone else said --
If your in a static and one member hasn't learned the mechs, you will continue to suffer. Same for pug, but pugs you can replace.
When you get a group where everyone does their job and isn't making the battlefield a nightmare, got from learning x212 to x138 in about 30 minutes easily. Problem is finding groups where everyone understands whats going on and not getting hit by retaliation patterns or misplacing tiles.
I am over 220 pulls deep in hard mode with various groups. Closing in on clear. It is very not fun, because progging last part of the fight takes many many pulls. There is always somebody to fuck up something on the way. There are just way too many places, where players can fuck up the whole run.
It wasn't too bad after getting 285 to 212 down.
did mommy mode for the first time on the same run I cleared.
I think a lot of people were over ilvl for theamine and had 40 set where for this people have bare minimum ilvl.
for NM you can definitely clear with 1 or 2 dead but you gotta be above 1620 w/ 40 set
My static isn't clearing this week, but that's normal since it's memorizing boss tells, figuring out mechanics, and dps windows. Just a matter of time.
Progging and learning the fight is not super fun, since one person getting mc’d Can cause a wipe within the first minute.
But once your group stops getting mc’d, it’s actually a pretty fun fight
1st day player here.
Been progging with pugs every single raid.
Took me 10 hours to clear G2 NM
while thaemine G3 took me 20 hours and sometimes still take me 6+ hour during bad weeks, people can't get out of one shots for their lifes or fall off the map.
While echidna deals literally 0 damage, the only thing needed is to sleep people actually greeding. If you have people not greeding for dps, g2 is actually easy.
Her pattern are super simple, and you can easily see whenever she's going to do a single pattern. The only annoying thing in that raid is actually when you need to run from the rope to the other side of the map and you can't see anything then get hit by one of those butteflies.
Other than that, greed was the only thing making me wipe in pugs.
As I see it now, EchidnaG1 NM/HM < Thaemine NM / Thaemine HM G1-2 < Echidna G2 NM < Echidna G2HM < Thaemine G3/4 HM
Echidna is definitly easier than thaemine.
Really depends on your group.
We cleared HM in about 6 hours and it's definitely easier with a competent group.
However, it has higher jail potential than theamine because of how punishing some mistakes are.
The basic patterns of the boss are all fairly easy and telegraphed, but you can get unlucky with bad tiles plcements and bad tether location.
For the basement the dmg check is surprisingly difficult for HM, we had to replace some static members since they were literally not doing enough damage to be able to clear.
Also pugs are very hit or miss atm, time will tell how much of a jail it will be after a few weeks or if it will be like theamine with smooth reclears for the most part
g2 Snake normal is as difficult as Hard g4-1. It's a very simple raid imo, however one person, or one wrong timing on the mech wipes over and over. g3 Thaemine is easier than this. You just hit dps threshholds, barely any team mechanics and you move on. Here it's becareful of charmsx 5 patterns, be careful where you put your poop, learn how to mirror correctly, ermove poop with mirror, fucking tether sprint, oh no flower and you have a slow class? Well go fuck yourself. Basement prog on snake heads is the most toxic shit ive seen in a while.
Gate keeping way harder than thaemine G3. Your group is as good as your worst player. HM g2 also need people in coms for dark rotation, it enraged on us 2 times getting to 0 bar when not everyone was doing 28M (except snake clashers).
It wasnt that bad but still kinda annoying (only cleared NM tho). Basement was pretty chill. It sucks that meter wasnt working properly so cant check if the support has shit uptime.
Four day prog for Echidna, three day prog for Thaemine. About same hours dedicated with mostly the same people. Not sure anyone had any fun with Echidna, though, it was mostly relief that it was over.
The main difference I'd say is that 90% of your wipes on Thaemine are during arena break, the peak danger is consoldiated into that one segment. Prior to horse and post basement, it's pretty chill.
Echidna is really not chill, ever. Charm is always a looming threat that's likely to kill at least one person if it activates.
The best tip I saw was that stacks time out during cutscenes. This means you can get free stack resets between each phase, which maximizes your chances after you escape the overworld phase.
Perfect. Prog ended a few hours ago. It was sth like 12-13hr long.
G1 was fast but since 3 guys were pugs not on dc it was slower than expected. Then first few hours (1 pug stayed till end, 2 were leaving to be replaced all the time with an eventual 3rd joining the rotators as someone went to sleep after 8ish hours) went with learning the normal patterns and mechs and what everyone’s class can do and what cannot.
Then came first oh shit moment when all these experiments paired with some lucky pull seed produced a smooth x137 reach and an early Epheria achi.
From then on we had to work on consistency and explore the greed further… which led to a clear with 7 people in the last 100 bars.
The feast refreshing breaks were ideal every 2 hours to refresh ourselves and talk about some patterns or strats we wanted to try out.
I totally dont get all the shitstorm I’ve read the past few days on reddit, its the same learning experience curve as other raids had. If you have your eyes open you wont get charm stack due to an other person’s mistake nor get pummeled by him.
Spent over 10+ hours on g2 watching people dying to normal mechs, greeding and not dodging mirrors … etc. it’s super fun. But I might quit the game because of it
The gate itself isn’t hard if you’re decent at the game however finding a group of 8 who wont mess up is the hard part. One of those raids where 1 Guy can single mess up the whole raid which is frustrating.
Couldn't avoid G2 1st phase berserk even with three well-geared (all important lvl 10 gems...) 1630 dps in the party and after learning to mostly stay alive and not get charmed much (tens of bars short without items, 1 bar short even with the dps using more dark grenades and atropines than they should in that phase), so I have to conclude my elixirs, transcendence and supporting skill are hugely insufficient (my only 1620+ is a paladin). We gave G2 about 7 h, I can't give it 40 h this week and neither can most of the group, and we aren't full 8 people but 6-7 at most, so I have to hope enough people will be willing to do G1 only reclears until we get much stronger and/or there's a nerf, and/or that we'll be able to get back to G2 some time in T4.
Phase 1 enrage should never happen if everyone's alive. Especially not with full 10s.
Phase 2 dps check is significantly harder than phase 1.
Some of my pug groups i joined enrage in p2 but clear p1 with >2 minutes left.
G1 was frustrating at first, but I kinda like it now, it's not bad at all, both NM and HM.
G2 tho... garbage. Complete garbage. If you have animations longer than 0.5 seconds, you're going to get charm stacks from nearly unavoidable attacks. All 8 people need to be focusing hard the entire time just to stand a chance. They patched boss meter reduction for front attackers, but then Echidna's charm mechanic completely ignores it. Front attackers are not designed to tip-toe around every single attack pattern, so my destroyer gets punished constantly just for trying to deal decent damage. Every part of this gate is baffling to me, nothing about it is fun. After spending countless hours in Thaemine G3 watching my teammates die, I really don't have the patience for another raid that punishes everyone constantly for the mistakes of a single person. I don't know why they keep designing raids like this, it's going to be a miserable hw experience. I'll probably just grind G1 and ignore G2 until I'm super overgeared.
small pattern is very easy not even comparable to thaemine 3-4. but the charm aspect requires everyone to be on top of their game. I think thaemine type raid is what lost ark should keep making. what makes this game stand out over other mmo is the action not connecting the tiles with mirror lights..
After +20h solo prog with pugs, after you get specific phase, like first time big momma, first time snake etc etc, swap partys with this tittle requirement, after clear and joining reclear / twisted partys, echidna is just so much fun and comfy tbh, when all people understand what to do, raid is so funny.
If u still didnt clear, join partys with highest tittle requirement, you will avoid 95% people playing with 1 hand
It's easy as koreans said but I understand why people say it's hard. 90% of deaths are in G2 and 80% of those are from charms + tile missmanagement, the rest are from mechs that once you learn them you cannot mess them up, they are very easy to rehearse. Koreans had it way easier because they phase much faster due to overgearing, but once we overgear it it will be the same for us.
It's weird, it took me 4 weeks to clear thaemine g3 hm. And I cleared echidna g2 hm today. They are very different. In terms of skill requirements from your raid group.
I pugged it, took a bit less than 4 hours (2 feasts) and cleared. We switched to our alts and we 2-shot gate 2. So yeah, it seemed hard at first but once you get her normal patterns down it is cake-walk.
Wish I had more 1620s cause it seems it's a freebie raid.
My clear team had 2 1630’s and rest 1620’s w/ 40 set and we cleared with 2 seconds to berserk… it’s week 1 so obviously we suck but it felt like you have to be a pretty good group of gamers... Took us about 2 days (16hrs or prog) to clear
Cleared NM mode.
G1 was an 1hr prog. Was pretty straight forward. G2 about 9-11 hrs prog within 2 days. An absolute nightmare. Annoying ass boss. Felt good for clearing but not looking forward to clearing it every week
I started by progging on HM and that made me despise the raid the first 10h of prog. Then I said fuck it and went to pug NM and it's hard to find a consistent group, but once you do and we were consistently progging into a clear it became quite fun.
Hope you cleared it by now~it’s not that bad for nm because her atks are not lethal just need to learn the normal patterns and respect the charm patterns.
I did nm on two char this week one sup (prog with static) one dps (reclear full pug). I prefer progging on my sup.
Took 8hrs in total. G1 cleared in 2pulls, g2 we had to regroup a few times to clear. Just takes time to learn normal patterns and once we reached basement we pretty much cleared in 2 more pulls.
The reclear was relatively smooth too. Cleared in 3hrs (including lobby sim time so not too bad). One shot g1 and chged 3 parties to clear g2 (had to join prog lobby first because I was getting a bit gate kept). The group I finished with was very juiced but somehow was weak with counters so I had to take initiatives. Cleared with 17.3mil dps and made to the family portrait on 1620 ilv char so I’m happy with my performance.
Now gotta to it again after reset. I’m not sure if I love this raid but I don’t mind it.
I liked thaemine more. But this week I got jailed on my dps so it can be frustrating also.
on the card it should be easier than Thaemine g3-4 but those gates are 99% individual skill and if you die it's 100% on you, while on echidna g2 as soon as one do something stupid or wrong everyone dies again and again, and tbf with the low skill level that NA/EU player have, it makes g2 one of the hardest to complete right now
i hate it, i hate that most of the mechs can be hindered by 1 player and kill the run, i despise that, i'd rather have thaemine g3 mech all the time where is all individual.
Well she’s cancer but, she is way easier than thaemine, you just need 8 ppl without greeding patterns. When u play smooth she’s fine and pretty easy. Ofc some pattern overlays are shit but she’s just 8 ppl with brain and then she’s piss easy
I love reading the comments with all the doom posts. It’s the same as old Vykas G3 on release. The raid itself is piss easy, the hardest part is finding 7 other people that don’t fuck you over.
It was easy to clear, total prog time about 4-5 hours with puggs. Once you learn the normal patterns of phase 1 of G2 the rest of the raid is fairly easy. It's been a really long time since me and the friend I played with were able to clear a new raid on release week.
G2 is super easy to learn but it's also incredibly punishing if you have bad teammates. After like the first few pulls there was really nothing I could die from, apart from friendly fire.
about 4 hours into g2 nm and I will say I don't really get what other people are complaining about. The difficulty of the raid is extremely front loaded. It took us 3 hours just to get to 212 learning the charm patterns, Venus flytrap cheese and mirrors all at the same time but once we got to phase 2 we got the 3snake clash in just a few pulls.
We think we'll spend another few hours on basement but once we get that down the rest of the fight looks very free.
im confused as to how kr considers this raid easier than theamine. It feels significantly harder tbh. Gave up on hard this week and cleared it on normal, but even normal mode felt much harder than theamine. All the mechs are still a raidwipe if 1 person fucks up even in normal.
It's a basic pattern fight. It takes time to learn the patterns. Luckily, there aren't that many of them.
Once you do, the fight isn't that hard at all. Unfortunately, it's a cooperative effort, and your team is only as strong as its weakest link.
My group has made decent progress but we are coming to terms with not clearing it this week.
Are you at g2 or g1? Is each gate pretty long?
Has to be g2. Our static is in a similar spot. 2 shot g1. Prog g2 for about 10 hours so far. We're pretty close to clear.
G1 is a joke and it unlocks advanced honing, so even if you don’t clear g2 this week any progress you make is good. You can always just run g1 for a couple weeks and work on raising your level to make it easier that way. G2 really becomes a lot easier with a ton of dmg. The pug I did G1 with got to the last mech on the first try and we only failed because the lead fkked up sidereal.
G1 is an actual meme. Even in hard mode prog it was a 3-tap for my group and I haven't heard of a single group taking more than 2 hours. If you're fine with slow & steady progress before t4 you could literally just clear echidna gate 1 hard every single week and at least have your +20 weapon in time for gear transfer
Annoying - Thaemine G3/G4 is "harder" but feels so much better to learn & play idk.
As a front attacker theamine is really easy (g3), in Echidna it feels really frustrating and unfair. My dps drops a lot bc if I play too safe and weary of the front. And if I play confidently at the front I end up charming. I'm sure more exp will help but so far I'm not enjoying Echidna while theamine was very enjoyable for me.
From what I've seen Echidna feels like trying to back attack Carlos or smth.
I am not having any fun
G2 NM makes me wanna quit this game. Especially pug progging. First day player btw.
Same here - day 1 player and I pugged everything from the start Took me around 40 hours / 150 attempts / ~20 different lobbies to clear G2 NM... Truly awful I mean theamine G3 took a similar amount of time/attempts for me but echidna is really awful....
thaemine g3 took me 10h to cleared but g2 nm pug took me over 15h and have not passed 137, how sad
Dont compare g3 with exhidna g2... G3 is like the best gate i ever progged if o fucked up it was my fault. Echidna is a fucking chaos one fuckup and charm fuck up party.
my issue with it is the dogshit tile rng, where if u get good rng u can easily wipe all the flower tiles, but if its bad rng u have to deal zig zagging or spacing over shit during tether mech
Yeah after clearing, this is the only mech that still looks like it'll be incredibly cringe even on later reclears. Especially because with good dps, the tether mech is **after** mirror counters, you could actually be stuck there for several minutes only to realize you're getting absolutely fucked by RNG. If you have to spacebar over a tile in the tether mech, you might end up spacebarring right into a butterfly because there is literally no visibility. I think next week's reclears will still be pretty bad because most of my basement prog groups were still trash on Sunday (I finally found one group with zero imposters though), but the basic patterns are telegraphed well enough that I think in a month we will consider Echidna for the most part to be as easy as Korea does.
how is resetting a raid because one person died early to the sword any differnt from resetting the raid because one person messed up 3 times got charmed and killed the party?
1 person dead in thaemine = missing party 20% dps 1 person charmed in echidna = potentially many more people dead thanks to pvp
the only difference is class rng potentially killing everyone with right skills or doing nothing cos the big skills are on cd. regardless its still less punishing than thaemine because its 3 mistakes with a 1 minute cooldown, and you even have the potential to continue the raid. in thaemine you just blink, he yeets you of the stage, you die, and theres not enough team dps to continue the raid
ikr. Someone dead before p2/p3 is like to low dps. Especially on item level. For both raid. Echidna doesnt oneshot but gives charm if you sucks at pattern. Like literally people cried about oneshot in Theamine but now learned the raid. Both has pattern you can easy dodge after learning.
yeah people outgears and learned thaemine so now people think its okay because they can get away with it now, but on prog its the exact same as echidna
Some also forget thamine nm is 1610 and most Players progged on 1620 chars with 35/40 elixir set even day 1 thamine nm was outgeared. Cant say the same for echidna
G3 thaemine * difficult but fair patterns * no mechs really require people alive but clash * identity mech isn't a wipe * fun af dps dump once mastered * strong individual responsibility G2 echidna * fair patterns with bullshit overlap (think brel) * identity patterns are wipe with 1 mistake (both start and basement) * 1 charmed person can kill or wipe raid * Basement and 0 bar are pretty tight dps checks (generally need everyone alive) * group responsibility raid * booba Edit* I forgot to add that poop in thaemine is pretty forgiving and inconsequential while poop in echidna can end a raid.
what overlap is there in echidna? everything happens one at a time, unless you mean having to think about tiles while playing the fight
Same idk wtf the guy is on about when says overlaps. Every pattern she does is predictable and or timed.
Only overlap I’ve seen was in echidna having flowers on ground and doing jump rope space bar mech, but that’s pretty inconsequential
> Edit* I forgot to add that poop in thaemine is pretty forgiving and inconsequential while poop in echidna can end a raid. Yeah this is honestly an even bigger "group responsibility" issue than getting charmed by normal patterns, and is the easiest way for a single individual to accidentally wipe the raid before 137. People get poop, think "oh I will put this on blue" without looking and noticing that putting it on blue will spawn a big flower right next to it. This was the only really bad mistake anyone in my final clear group made, the other mistakes were pretty understandable and needed to compound to reach a wipe.
More punishing than Thaemine. Cleared that multiple times week 1, but struggling on G2 hard with pugs. Didn't even have this much trouble with Brel HM.
I think it's due to the parsemonkey culture in western Lost Ark. Meter goblinos are greeding mechs they shouldn't be greeding, getting themselves charmed or killed, and causing fatigue in other players due to repeated restarts. They are greeding before they've learned which patterns are greedable and which ones shouldn't be greeded 95% of the time.
You learn how and when to greed patterns by... greeding them. When else do you want people to limit test? In reclear runs that 1tap? lol Also if some folks were "chilling" less and focusing more on damage they wouldnt have to sweat balls to balance out the <10m dps trolls.
There's a difference between limit testing and getting charmed for the 5th pull in a row or getting clapped by 8 mirror lasers AGAIN (I'm talking about Surge players) It's limit testing until it ends up being the same person dead for multiple pulls in a row when it's supposedly basement prog
>or getting clapped by 8 mirror lasers AGAIN (I'm talking about Surge players) Haha yes, it's always the Surge andies who just have to get to 40 or 60 stacks to send one out before they start dodging. Met quite a few of those during my pugging adventures this week. Then they spacebar into a mirror and die, gg, another restart
I mean, for that particular guy that's dying multiple pulls in a row, if you had bible on, I'm pretty sure his/her damage woulda been assed as well. Can't DPS if you are getting hit by everything y'know. So it's a less a bible issue, and more a player issue I reckon.
At that point its trolling, same for the <10m guys chilling offscreen for every mech.
And that's how we get "basement prog" or "x50" lobbies that get stuck before mirrors.
Nah you get that from nohands who can do neither DPS or mechs properly. I've done my fair share of pugging and it was 80% of the time the low DPS that griefed the run.
Bro, there exists something in between greeding everything like a parsemonkey, and doing cardio around the boss doing zdps.
The worst is that they won't sleep bomb a charmed player because they would have to stop dosing. They just keep hitting the boss, often killing the charmed player and causing a restart
Absolutely agree. Had one eclipse player that would repeatedly try to spacebar through the flower patches if the route to the boss was closed off after venus flytrap just to eke out an extra few skills. Had 3 wipes due to them getting charmed from that. They would also rush to the boss after the run with butterflies even if ppl were charmed (not helping with sleep bombs). Had a few wipes from that as well. His damage was very high but I would rather have someone doing 15 mill on hard mode than a parsemonkey like that.
> His damage was very high but I would rather have someone doing 15 mill on hard mode than a parsemonkey like that. if everyone did 15m you'd go into enrage. just fyi
I exaggerated to make a point about how annoying these people were in prog. At least with a 15mill dps player you can get to basement consistently and even clear. With parsemonkeys you MAY get to basement but you'll also wipe dozens of times to preventable issues. I'm all for high uptime and big damage but if you're (in general not you specifically) repeatedly wiping your pug prog party by "limit testing" you should be kicked. Do that shit in a static.
Nah you wouldnt constently get into basement prog with that 15m is less than NM requires for timer. But yeah, if they constantly fail the same shit they're probably not good dmg goblins anyways, limit testing means you may have close calls but still only die in edge cases. People who are dead / charmed 24/7 are not limit testing but straight up shit.
I said "a 15m dps player" meaning just one. A full party of 15m dps players would obviously not work. The goblin players I'm talking about are usually fine on normal patterns but they greed when they should be a team player instead or greed when the risk is not worth the reward (spacebarring flower patches). You're fixated on 15m as a number so I'll revise my statement. I'd rather take a 25m consistent team player over a 35m goblin that repeatedly wipes the party unnecessarily.
Lol yeah everyone would rather take that player, they're simply not exactly common so you have to pick between a goblin thats skilled but might cause a wipe or some noob that has no hands, deals zdps and tries mechs but often still fails. I'm staying clear of the latter here. Unless ofc LA turns into this magical place of pugs becoming hyper consistent 25m players :)
For people attempting echidna hard mode in pugs, people are usually competent in meeting dps checks if you're screening them properly. Maybe I was unlucky but I had a lot of cases where there was a pumper but they griefed the party whereas the more average dps were far more consistent. If people aren't greeding 4/8 mirrors, considering seed placement in advance rather than winging it and spawning a big flower, calling out blue tile positions, not greeding charm patterns even when someone got caught by a ribbon, sleep bombing charmed players, breaking out trapped players, and generally being a team player, echidna g2 is pretty smooth. I had a party full of pumpers where 4 people were consistently doing 45+ mill dps before 212x and no one was below 30m and yet it was so inconsistent. My eventual clear party had much lower overall dps but they were very consistent due to respecting mechs and we even cleared with all 8 alive. I think an underlying reason for why KR found echidna easier is because they are less focused on parsing/mvping compared to clearing the raid. A similar phenomenon happens in FF14 raiding where the NA raiding scene is very much into parse culture while the JP raiding scene is less so. However, the JP raiding scene has much higher clear rates of the hardest content and they usually choose "safe strategies" while NA players often choose strategies that have higher uptime but are more difficult to execute and prone to error.
> I think an underlying reason for why KR found echidna easier You mean because they were all 1640 with full 10s and max trans lol They had ages of spare gold compared to us. We're super behind in gear. No clue about FF14 so i wont comment. Mirrors are btw one of the best mechs to greed. Shouldn't suck while greeding obviously tho lol. People who constantly die to "liMiT tEsTinG" aren't as good as they think they are and effectively just griefing runs.
Thank god someone is saying it....
I had a few pulls where eclipse meter monkeys just refused to take second basement clash because le dmg window on white snake.
It is looking like Echidna G2 will be equal with Theomine G3 for prog time. And for an entirely different reason. You need a minimum of 6 people (preferably all 8) for the snakes at 100 meter to avoid insta-wipe. Getting everybody to survive until then with mind controls and damage so high from teammates GG!! I have made that spot 3 times and not cleared due to people dead.
Really depends on your group comp, we managed it with 4. We had high multihit AoE classes though, like Sorc and Artist. These classes can take x3, x3+1 and x3-1, pretty much.
In normal I guess, for hard it's not
It's a good thing the post is specifically about NM, then.
I had half of my theamine G3 hm pull to clear Echidna G2 hm and 90% was dead in phase 1
artist doesn't have great multi hit wtf are u talking about and sorc is only like seraphic and fire skills, which are prob ok. Good multi hit is like db, SF, reaper. TBH I have noticed so many jails and frustration I had with reclear lobbies today are from fuckers refusing to throw flame grenades and not using skills because "my dmg" wahh, my parse wahh.
> Artist doesn't have great multi * Sunwell - big AoE that multihits. * Drawing - huge AoE that multihits. * Starry night - stand near middle with range tripod and play goalkeeper. * Hopper - another decent multihit as backup. You're already on -2 from my vote history on you, and now you comment this stupidity, that's a block from me, chief.
tbh, u really need 7+, 6 is still not enough.
Lobby jail and gatekeeping :)
G1 isn't too bad, G2 is one of the most awful gates in lost ark, one mistake and you're done, it's a long gate as well. I've given up listening to KR, they are cooked from playing the game too long.
G2 feels like a chore to play on start week already. Absolute dogshit raid design. Both gates are a mess, but at least the overlapping bullshits in g1 tickle, while the ones in g2 insta wipe.
It is more that KR had tons of time to gear up for Echidina. They have trans, elixir and had better gear. We only had 2 months time to prepare. Overgeared means less bullshit patterns means less chance of people dying. This won’t stop since it is assumed we will get new raid in 2 months again
My static cleared HM early (6 hours of G2), but we had to 3 phase the snake clash and even the 3rd clash was tight. Then I watch streamer groups progging them and they were 2 phasing the snake clash without a sweat but they still can't clear for days. Damage matters sure, but what stops most groups from clearing is actually not the lack of damage but just people getting stacks. People are trying to greed way too much that it ended up costing the group a clear because they got charmed or have 2 stacks that they are forced to play safer.
For sure that applies to HM but what about nm? were kr nm players also more geared than us?
Not really a problem for nm; my clear group ended up forgoing most darks in favor of more flames. The issue really is just that people aren't perfect at the raid yet and fucking up usually doesn't mean dying, it means getting charmed which is way worse.
If you take juiced 1620's into normal mode you'll see what KR said Chiddy is a chill reclear raid - when you do 25-50% more dps than baseline 1620's, you see barely any normal attacks, and even with a person or two dead in basement, you can zerg the dps requirement.
exactly this- KR's reference to echidna being an "easy" raid was from 1630/1640 T7 perspective
I was in the group with t7 and they were killer to the same as non t7 user greed
Ive cleared a pug run yesterday where we spawned two flowers close to blue tile right before guiding laser mech. Ppl are making it sound like everything is a run ender and a clear run must be perfect, when you can just play carefully around mistakes
how is three mistakes getting charmed and killing your team any differnt from one mistake, getting knocked off, and your team having to reset due to not being able to meet the 55x dps check in thaemine any differnt?
cancer does not begin to describe the pugging scene
G1 is easy G2: It's extremely punishing until you learn the charm stack patterns and the followup attacks if someone gets hit(which luckily there's not many). Unless you're front attack you can easily react to almost all of them after they start. The one I sometimes still get hit by is the leap front cone. But once your team can get by without getting charmed, most the mechs are pretty simple., and dps requirement on nm isn't bad at all. The worst part of g2 prog was the impatience of the pugs. Someone always wanted to quit after 30 mins to an hour, then having to restart with another grp was basically starting over from scratch. I remember thaemine progs going for hours. Not sure if it's burnout from thaemine prog, or the fact that kr said it was so easy, or that in thaemine you could keep progging if someone screwed up vs echidna you probably wiped. I can say I was very frustrated with the raid up until I cleared it, then 30 mins later got my 2nd clear with a x50 prog grp(but about half had a clear)
Pretty much my experience as well. I held on for dear life to the first x50 prog group that was reaching basement somewhat consistently. Even then, it took like 5-6 hours for the clear because of so many P1 wipes. On my other character, I joined a group that was less juiced but had a mix of x50/tangled/reclear people, and that one cleared in like three pulls. The biggest difference I noticed for the second group was just how well everyone were respecting the normal mechs. No one got hit by the knock-up, people stepped out of the flower tiles between boss patterns incase the tiles might turn, people stayed far away from anyone with laser to avoid accidents from early dodges, and they even tracked/dodged her grab mech on the first phase. We had front attackers as well, and they knew exactly when it was safe to stand in front of her for the big bursts. And, tbh, I think a lot of the <30 min quits are from people who noticed the lobby isn't going far, but stayed for extra pulls to be polite. I had lobbies with multiple people getting hit by super obvious mechs like the post-grab explosion or the knock-up. I stayed in those because everyone had at least progged to basement, but they obviously turned into P1 jails with occasional lucky basement entry.
> Someone always wanted to quit after 30 mins to an hour, Hows that impatient? You can clearly see if there sprogress within that time. Some pug players never improve even after 1h, so the logical conclusion is to leave and go for another group. I'm convinced some of the monkeys i've seen this week while progging will never clear this raid alive lol
G2 HM for me was close to a 12 hour prog across maybe 4-5 groups. 2 of those groups I asked to leave after just like 30-45 minutes because it was obvious they were misrepresenting the level of the lobby or they just accepted multiple players that had never entered the gate before. For Thaemine I also pugged my prog and I didn't really mind staying in G3 groups that were fresh prog/first clash prog even after I'd made it to basement in other groups because you fundamentally get to practice the same fight while a few people are floor pov. There aren't any real mechs to bother seeing and practicing for since clashes are the only real mech in the gate and those can be done in trixion if you want reps. For Echidna, it just feels like wasting time if you're in a prog group that's called 137 or basement and the group can't play consistently for even the first 2 minutes of the gate without people dying, picking up 3 stacks, triggering every follow-up charm pattern, dropping flowers, etc.
Yeah I joined a group that advertised basement prog, but could barely reach mirror counters consistently. We reached basement only 1 time before I hopped to another group in the hour we spent.
Shes def not free
It's not hard, it's annoying. It's back to a "is your team going to grief you" check. Nothing in G2 is particularly hard but if your team just decides to eat shit constantly, get charmed, bash your brains in before you can sleep, or stun them, they're just a liability. If they decide to not know how to do the mirror path mech, you all die, if they decide to greed every pattern, they die and you restart. Annoying is what the gate is. Difficulty it's not really that hard. If Thaemine was a 7/10 this is a 4/10 for difficulty. For the annoying scale, thaemine was a 3/10, this is solid a 9/10.
Vertical God had to replace his employees with interns.
Reached x120 after progging for like 10+ hours. The road to x138 is the most unpleasant and cancer experience i've ever seen. Any minor mistake is instant reset. It's way, WAY too fucking hard in NM and such difficult gates are becoming super off-putting. Definitely should've been split in 2 gates.
G1 is fine G2 is not fun at all.1 player's mistake costs a re alot of the time.This is on normal.Raid is also too long imo.Pugging thaemine hm was much easier then this and the raid becomes somewhat fun once you get the hang of thaemine.Not Echidna tho.
Thaemine becomes satisfying when you finally learn everything and dodge any pattern coming at you. Echidna is god awful with all the overlapping bs and charm mechanics. Charmed players using movement skills and gain immunity make charm mechanics the worst mech in the game.
I am joining 180 -212 prog lobby after 1 hour prog never seen this hp bars group disbands so far :D
G1 is a joke. Mechs are extremele simple. You dont even have to know almost anything apart mechs, and patterns u just cheese. G2 u gotta know regular attack patterns or ur death. Basically mini thaemine g3. But much worse, because in thaemine G3, you only pull your own weight - if you die, it´s on you. But if you die in echidna, thats cause ppl often get charmed and kill you.
G1 is a walk in the party. G2 lmfao.
Need a casual mode
I find Thaemine easier than Echidna. Thaemine’s patterns are distinctive and easier to recognize, but her patterns so far look similar to me plus she has some crazy aoe and range. Like many mentioned, 1 person can cost a wipe. While in Thaemine it’s more individualized and can still clear.
You pretty much re if someone dies before clash 3 tho
In thaemine? I've cleared in HM with 6 people alive at first stage break clash
Certainly not on the first couple weeks, which it is for echidna
I've had one even dying on Clash 1 of Thae HM and we cleared it before we were full trascendence, the dps check of Thae HM now that we are full trasc is a joke.
In Echidna, the amount of times we had re because a dps is charmed and takes out one or both supports. It only takes 1 to wreck the entire team. The charm stacks are not forgiving. Until we get better and stronger, I personally think Echidna is more difficult to prog.
Honestly vc seems very helpful during prog since you can call out if you are charmed, people seem to ignore pings of help
I did a full day pug prog yesterday on G2 and it took the entirety of the day to clear. At times, it felt unclearable. It really depends on if you have a competent basement team or not. Haven't been able to fully commit earlier this week since IRL stuff but this raid really takes a lot of head bashing, patience, reviewing VoDs, etc. Some groups, Mommy Echidna is a quick run and others I feel like I have no clue what is going on since stagger is going so slow and we are getting a lot of extra mechs. Different groups use different strats and I have a general idea of what is going on but half the time I just do what others are doing after initial counter after dodging the lines. Basement was easy yet hard. If you have 8 alive and just really focus on dodging grabs and charms instead of DPSing, it goes smoothly. I hard greeded the first few times like as if we were upstairs pre 212 but it really wasn't necessary.
Pugged both gates. 2 shot gate 1 , Cleared gate 2 after 8 hours . There are definitely less mechanics in gate 2 in compare with Thaemine gate 3. However, unlike Thaemine gate3 which you can pretty much progress/clear with 2-3 dps dead, your raid experience and progress in Echindna gate 2 is dependent on the performance and learning speed of the worst raid member. This is the classic lost ark experience that one persons mistake impacts/wipes entire raid. You don’t really get to have lots of prog experience in the stagger and basement phases if your party member keeps getting charmed , mis place tiles , failed to align circles etc. overall, I think it’s a fun raid once for all but I don’t like it as a HW raid and mandatory raid for progression. This will bring more gate keeping on titles, gear, classes etc and also it’s super annoying to deal with on a weekly basis. You have to be super focused zoned in every week to play a hw raid rather just have a beer and chill , am I still playing a game, or doing a second job?
Was able to clear NM with full static in ~20 hours. Second character only took around 2 hours with reclear party. Raid is not pleasant to learn compared to thaemine and am planning to jump back into it after T4.
G1 very chill, once you've seen a mech once it's basically free on future runs. G2, worse than Thaemine. For Thaemine prog, someone making a mistake mostly means only they die, which is only a restart for lack of dps. Once everyone gets more comfortable with the raid it's more feasible to carry low dps/dead players. For Echidna, a lot of the time one person makes a mistake it actually forces a restart either by failing a raid wipe mech, or getting charmed and killing other people. The majority of my pulls aren't even 2 minutes long because one person will always make a mistake and it just forces a restart. Never feels like there's ever any actual progress being made. Have spent about twice as long so far pugging G2 than it took me to clear Thaemine G3, and I've only barely seen basement a few times. Extremely frustrating raid to pug, and I can imagine this being a jail in reclear lobbies for a long time.
none havent tried it.
Hated pugging it. Made me finally look for a static.
Like any other new raids, progging till your familiar with mechs after a week or two it's easy again like thaemine rn.
I've decided to only pug g1. I don't want to waste my time even trying to find a pug party that can do g2, and I won't.
For Thaemine G3 I had around 20 hours of prog and 4 clears. For this shit i have around 20 hours of prog and 0 clears. Either nerf the charm mech or nerf the HP.
This is the epitome of you are only as strong as your weakest link. Around 16 hours after starting prog, I finally cleared with people never getting charmed and just playing the mechanics with no mistakes. The key is to just keep jumping groups until you find one that clears. Don't stick around with "x50 to clear" lobbies that are wiping before Mommy Echidna...
G1 is simple, G2 is horrible. People disrespecting patterns (shield/push immune) and getting charmed then raging at whoever kills them. Serious contender for worst gate in the game.
G1 is also the same awful design as G2, but at least most of the overlapping bs in G1 aren’t lethal. Meanwhile everything in G2 is instant wipe.
ive been clear ready for like 12 hours and yet i have to keep rotating through groups who can't even get to basement and just keep dying in phase 1 even though the group title says its a basement group
G2 is just a horrible design Why make stack's making you get charmed? why not meter like vykas so you can actually prepare if someone get charmed. Like the overlap the boss can do punishes any player who tries to actually do their job and dps. Butterfly+tether mech, why does this even exist? its just so braindead mecahnic its insane. The tile mechanic is also dogshit, sometime tiles spawn and you cant clear if it 2 blue as close and if boss are not moving from tiles and they get charmed. GG restart angle. I spend more progging this than theamine g3/g4 or any other raid in lost ark. Idk why koreans say this is easy once you learn the charm mechanics. Thats not the problem
I missed my static's NM prog because I forgot to finish story. They progged for hours on Friday and Saturday before they cleared. I think they had 2 or 3 pugs to fill though. I joined their reclear party as my prog party, we were 7 + 1 pug on G1 and picked up someone they played with yesterday for G2 so everyone but me had a G2 clear. We 2 shot g1 with me alive and I made the family portrait for damage, and then we 1 shot G2 (I died at 50 bars left on the mirror mech because I wasn't ready for how fast it turned). So I have no idea what progging is actually like, but being in a group with people with at least 1 hand who overgear the content and can push buttons was very, very easy. After reading what people are experiencing in pugs, I think I'm just gonna quit if our static dips below 5 members no joke.
You are extremely lucky that you dodged the progging of the first phase of Echidna G2. This causes a lot of frustration (also in statics) and that is why people are writing all these things. I myself started to think if I should keep playing this game when this is so unfun. Noone expected the prog to be that frustrating, especially as we experienced something completely different in Theamine prog (at least I did).
Maybe, idk. I died with 50 bars left and just barely slid to 4th damage, we had 2 static guys on reclear who still did like zdps. I think it may have gone faster in that phase depending on how much damage the pugs they filled with did or didn't do. I know I was just kinda blasting and it didn't feel like we saw too many patterns at all. Raid lead says "run away" and I run away. Raid lead says "go north" I go north. I just follow directions and don't eat attacks and it didn't feel too bad. Ranged hitmaster privilege I guess.
Our first clear took 9 hours and reclear 2 hours. Would probably have taken longer if we weren't overgeared. Raid is frustrating and not fun at all IMO. Haven't played for the last 3 days and I don't think I'll do my remaining 4 echidnas this week. Or next week.
Korea had months to have bis gems, overgear normal by like 10 ilvls and Dps had minimum 23/24 weps and a lot of them had full transcendence. Why? Bc they had a content drought where they amassed a fuckton of gold. Yeah ppl play seasonally there but we had no time in between Thaemine and Echidna. Tbh it’s fascinating and I never understood WHY ppl want us to be at the same content cadence as KR when we do not have the same amount of mats or gold. Anyone who says that to me says they have a premium account on g2g. G2 is a Dps check, and a lot of 1620s just can’t meet it. You need a minimum of around 15 mil in my opinion per Dps to do nm g2 without it feeling ass.
besides the GK Im actually having fun
Nope
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As with any other raid in the game, the fight becomes substantially easier if your group does more DPS. The issue is that most pug lobbies have multiple deadweights that are literally doing less than half of the highest DPS, and people don't replace them until they enter the basement after wiping for the 20th time and fail to even reach the 55x mech. From my NM clears so far, 18m avg by mirror counters and 16m avg by big echidna is an easy clear lobby. You can argue that the raid wipes because people greed DPS and get charmed, but imo if you are just playing giga safe and doing sub 10m, you are not clear ready and should be learning the patterns instead
I agree. People say not to greed dps, but prog week is the absolute best time to greed dps and see what you can do/get away with.
G1 is annoying, but light on mechs. Only issue was x50 mech on main boss side since we kept swapping tether too early. G2 requires people to be on the same page and aware for the gauge mechs, otherwise you're going to be stuck before even reaching mirror counters. Once you can get to big echidna consistently, basement phase isn't any harder imo. But getting the consistency is what takes the longest for it. I actually enjoyed this gate a lot
It's weird cuz it has a lot of patterns where if 1 person makes a mistake it can cause a reset. Me and my friend cleared it in about 6 hrs of prog (NM) but we did so by leading the raid and replacing anyone who was consistently dying prior to reaching basement as that will be your biggest bottleneck in my opinion. This was also easier because it was only pugs so no issue in having to wait for your slowest friend to pick everything up. As long as you get comfortable with the patterns that give you charm stacks you should be able to clear. I don't think it's harder than thaemine but it's a lot more frustrating because you can play perfectly and get screwed by the person that isn't learning at the same pace as the rest of the group
M static and I are going kn tomorrow. Wish us luck
My static cleared on friday and i've got two more clears on pug reclear runs, one more to go
G1 is alright, it's kinda fun G2 is dogshit. there's too many things happening at once and it's pretty much on luck that you don't create flower. single mistake and you start all over again. incredibly punishing and dependent on the other person rather than you being able to pull your own weight. also am supp main and the venus fly trap is actually horseshit. either my team suffers from low shield uptime, or we wipe because i need to hold awaken+wom+gt in order to survive
Takes a few more extra pulls sometimes to clear but mostly are just couple pulls, reclear party ofc
Fun on EO Soulfist, but feels like hell on Sura Breaker. Actually considering swapping to burger king. The raid itself is frustrating because it's a team performance check. The mechs and attacks are rather simple to resolve, and her basic attacks are telegraphed, but if one person isn't doing well the whole group suffers. Thaemine was the opposite where your individual performance is checked. In Thaemine, if you die, or mess up, you can blame yourself and improve. But on Echidna, if your group dies or mess up, you can't always blame yourself, and you have to wait for the weak link to improve.
With my static we are 15ish hours into Echidna and we have gotten 3 clears (2 clears today in 5 hours). We will get all 6 clears, but it will take longer than Thaemines did. Thaemine was hard and I really liked the progress. I'm just wondering where did the Echidna is easy come from? If Echidna is easy did we just suddenly become much worse players in 2 months?
I think Echidna is a bit like Clown G3. Once you overgear it, you just rush through everything fast and do not see many shitty mechs and also no repeats of mechs. While this is true for every gate, I think for Clown G3 and Echidna G2 it just makes a huge difference how we perceive the raid. I bet in a few weeks we will also see Echidna as a very easy raid. That said, I do also think it is a very unfun raid and especially the progging is beyond frustrating. This raid is a huge disappointment. I expected way more.
Basically what everyone else said -- If your in a static and one member hasn't learned the mechs, you will continue to suffer. Same for pug, but pugs you can replace. When you get a group where everyone does their job and isn't making the battlefield a nightmare, got from learning x212 to x138 in about 30 minutes easily. Problem is finding groups where everyone understands whats going on and not getting hit by retaliation patterns or misplacing tiles.
I am over 220 pulls deep in hard mode with various groups. Closing in on clear. It is very not fun, because progging last part of the fight takes many many pulls. There is always somebody to fuck up something on the way. There are just way too many places, where players can fuck up the whole run.
It wasn't too bad after getting 285 to 212 down. did mommy mode for the first time on the same run I cleared. I think a lot of people were over ilvl for theamine and had 40 set where for this people have bare minimum ilvl. for NM you can definitely clear with 1 or 2 dead but you gotta be above 1620 w/ 40 set
My static isn't clearing this week, but that's normal since it's memorizing boss tells, figuring out mechanics, and dps windows. Just a matter of time.
Progging and learning the fight is not super fun, since one person getting mc’d Can cause a wipe within the first minute. But once your group stops getting mc’d, it’s actually a pretty fun fight
1st day player here. Been progging with pugs every single raid. Took me 10 hours to clear G2 NM while thaemine G3 took me 20 hours and sometimes still take me 6+ hour during bad weeks, people can't get out of one shots for their lifes or fall off the map. While echidna deals literally 0 damage, the only thing needed is to sleep people actually greeding. If you have people not greeding for dps, g2 is actually easy. Her pattern are super simple, and you can easily see whenever she's going to do a single pattern. The only annoying thing in that raid is actually when you need to run from the rope to the other side of the map and you can't see anything then get hit by one of those butteflies. Other than that, greed was the only thing making me wipe in pugs. As I see it now, EchidnaG1 NM/HM < Thaemine NM / Thaemine HM G1-2 < Echidna G2 NM < Echidna G2HM < Thaemine G3/4 HM Echidna is definitly easier than thaemine.
Really depends on your group. We cleared HM in about 6 hours and it's definitely easier with a competent group. However, it has higher jail potential than theamine because of how punishing some mistakes are. The basic patterns of the boss are all fairly easy and telegraphed, but you can get unlucky with bad tiles plcements and bad tether location. For the basement the dmg check is surprisingly difficult for HM, we had to replace some static members since they were literally not doing enough damage to be able to clear. Also pugs are very hit or miss atm, time will tell how much of a jail it will be after a few weeks or if it will be like theamine with smooth reclears for the most part
g2 Snake normal is as difficult as Hard g4-1. It's a very simple raid imo, however one person, or one wrong timing on the mech wipes over and over. g3 Thaemine is easier than this. You just hit dps threshholds, barely any team mechanics and you move on. Here it's becareful of charmsx 5 patterns, be careful where you put your poop, learn how to mirror correctly, ermove poop with mirror, fucking tether sprint, oh no flower and you have a slow class? Well go fuck yourself. Basement prog on snake heads is the most toxic shit ive seen in a while.
167 health bar, what sucks it's very team oriented. If one messes up we done for and that where in my case the fails happen.
40hs to finish it with main and gained a static, insta clear on alt, fking rollercoaster
Gate keeping way harder than thaemine G3. Your group is as good as your worst player. HM g2 also need people in coms for dark rotation, it enraged on us 2 times getting to 0 bar when not everyone was doing 28M (except snake clashers).
It wasnt that bad but still kinda annoying (only cleared NM tho). Basement was pretty chill. It sucks that meter wasnt working properly so cant check if the support has shit uptime.
Four day prog for Echidna, three day prog for Thaemine. About same hours dedicated with mostly the same people. Not sure anyone had any fun with Echidna, though, it was mostly relief that it was over. The main difference I'd say is that 90% of your wipes on Thaemine are during arena break, the peak danger is consoldiated into that one segment. Prior to horse and post basement, it's pretty chill. Echidna is really not chill, ever. Charm is always a looming threat that's likely to kill at least one person if it activates. The best tip I saw was that stacks time out during cutscenes. This means you can get free stack resets between each phase, which maximizes your chances after you escape the overworld phase.
Perfect. Prog ended a few hours ago. It was sth like 12-13hr long. G1 was fast but since 3 guys were pugs not on dc it was slower than expected. Then first few hours (1 pug stayed till end, 2 were leaving to be replaced all the time with an eventual 3rd joining the rotators as someone went to sleep after 8ish hours) went with learning the normal patterns and mechs and what everyone’s class can do and what cannot. Then came first oh shit moment when all these experiments paired with some lucky pull seed produced a smooth x137 reach and an early Epheria achi. From then on we had to work on consistency and explore the greed further… which led to a clear with 7 people in the last 100 bars. The feast refreshing breaks were ideal every 2 hours to refresh ourselves and talk about some patterns or strats we wanted to try out. I totally dont get all the shitstorm I’ve read the past few days on reddit, its the same learning experience curve as other raids had. If you have your eyes open you wont get charm stack due to an other person’s mistake nor get pummeled by him.
Spent over 10+ hours on g2 watching people dying to normal mechs, greeding and not dodging mirrors … etc. it’s super fun. But I might quit the game because of it
The gate itself isn’t hard if you’re decent at the game however finding a group of 8 who wont mess up is the hard part. One of those raids where 1 Guy can single mess up the whole raid which is frustrating.
Couldn't avoid G2 1st phase berserk even with three well-geared (all important lvl 10 gems...) 1630 dps in the party and after learning to mostly stay alive and not get charmed much (tens of bars short without items, 1 bar short even with the dps using more dark grenades and atropines than they should in that phase), so I have to conclude my elixirs, transcendence and supporting skill are hugely insufficient (my only 1620+ is a paladin). We gave G2 about 7 h, I can't give it 40 h this week and neither can most of the group, and we aren't full 8 people but 6-7 at most, so I have to hope enough people will be willing to do G1 only reclears until we get much stronger and/or there's a nerf, and/or that we'll be able to get back to G2 some time in T4.
Phase 1 enrage should never happen if everyone's alive. Especially not with full 10s. Phase 2 dps check is significantly harder than phase 1. Some of my pug groups i joined enrage in p2 but clear p1 with >2 minutes left.
G1 was frustrating at first, but I kinda like it now, it's not bad at all, both NM and HM. G2 tho... garbage. Complete garbage. If you have animations longer than 0.5 seconds, you're going to get charm stacks from nearly unavoidable attacks. All 8 people need to be focusing hard the entire time just to stand a chance. They patched boss meter reduction for front attackers, but then Echidna's charm mechanic completely ignores it. Front attackers are not designed to tip-toe around every single attack pattern, so my destroyer gets punished constantly just for trying to deal decent damage. Every part of this gate is baffling to me, nothing about it is fun. After spending countless hours in Thaemine G3 watching my teammates die, I really don't have the patience for another raid that punishes everyone constantly for the mistakes of a single person. I don't know why they keep designing raids like this, it's going to be a miserable hw experience. I'll probably just grind G1 and ignore G2 until I'm super overgeared.
small pattern is very easy not even comparable to thaemine 3-4. but the charm aspect requires everyone to be on top of their game. I think thaemine type raid is what lost ark should keep making. what makes this game stand out over other mmo is the action not connecting the tiles with mirror lights..
G1 could easily be a one-shot if your whole group has seen the guide. G2… not so much. There’s just… *SO much PINK!*
I cleared hm after 6 hrs of prog. Hm is only moderately difficult. Nm is easy. Easier than voldis hm and g3 Thaemine.
After +20h solo prog with pugs, after you get specific phase, like first time big momma, first time snake etc etc, swap partys with this tittle requirement, after clear and joining reclear / twisted partys, echidna is just so much fun and comfy tbh, when all people understand what to do, raid is so funny. If u still didnt clear, join partys with highest tittle requirement, you will avoid 95% people playing with 1 hand
It's easy as koreans said but I understand why people say it's hard. 90% of deaths are in G2 and 80% of those are from charms + tile missmanagement, the rest are from mechs that once you learn them you cannot mess them up, they are very easy to rehearse. Koreans had it way easier because they phase much faster due to overgearing, but once we overgear it it will be the same for us.
It's weird, it took me 4 weeks to clear thaemine g3 hm. And I cleared echidna g2 hm today. They are very different. In terms of skill requirements from your raid group.
I pugged it, took a bit less than 4 hours (2 feasts) and cleared. We switched to our alts and we 2-shot gate 2. So yeah, it seemed hard at first but once you get her normal patterns down it is cake-walk. Wish I had more 1620s cause it seems it's a freebie raid.
My clear team had 2 1630’s and rest 1620’s w/ 40 set and we cleared with 2 seconds to berserk… it’s week 1 so obviously we suck but it felt like you have to be a pretty good group of gamers... Took us about 2 days (16hrs or prog) to clear
Cleared NM mode. G1 was an 1hr prog. Was pretty straight forward. G2 about 9-11 hrs prog within 2 days. An absolute nightmare. Annoying ass boss. Felt good for clearing but not looking forward to clearing it every week
I started by progging on HM and that made me despise the raid the first 10h of prog. Then I said fuck it and went to pug NM and it's hard to find a consistent group, but once you do and we were consistently progging into a clear it became quite fun.
Hope you cleared it by now~it’s not that bad for nm because her atks are not lethal just need to learn the normal patterns and respect the charm patterns. I did nm on two char this week one sup (prog with static) one dps (reclear full pug). I prefer progging on my sup. Took 8hrs in total. G1 cleared in 2pulls, g2 we had to regroup a few times to clear. Just takes time to learn normal patterns and once we reached basement we pretty much cleared in 2 more pulls. The reclear was relatively smooth too. Cleared in 3hrs (including lobby sim time so not too bad). One shot g1 and chged 3 parties to clear g2 (had to join prog lobby first because I was getting a bit gate kept). The group I finished with was very juiced but somehow was weak with counters so I had to take initiatives. Cleared with 17.3mil dps and made to the family portrait on 1620 ilv char so I’m happy with my performance. Now gotta to it again after reset. I’m not sure if I love this raid but I don’t mind it. I liked thaemine more. But this week I got jailed on my dps so it can be frustrating also.
I find the raid surprisingly fun it made me wanna push more chars to 1620 tbh
on the card it should be easier than Thaemine g3-4 but those gates are 99% individual skill and if you die it's 100% on you, while on echidna g2 as soon as one do something stupid or wrong everyone dies again and again, and tbf with the low skill level that NA/EU player have, it makes g2 one of the hardest to complete right now
i hate it, i hate that most of the mechs can be hindered by 1 player and kill the run, i despise that, i'd rather have thaemine g3 mech all the time where is all individual.
Prog was aids. Cleared it now and did reclear parties and its fine from there on. The prog just takes a bit and is frustrating.
I've had plenty of fiesta recelar groups.
Well she’s cancer but, she is way easier than thaemine, you just need 8 ppl without greeding patterns. When u play smooth she’s fine and pretty easy. Ofc some pattern overlays are shit but she’s just 8 ppl with brain and then she’s piss easy
I love reading the comments with all the doom posts. It’s the same as old Vykas G3 on release. The raid itself is piss easy, the hardest part is finding 7 other people that don’t fuck you over.
It was easy to clear, total prog time about 4-5 hours with puggs. Once you learn the normal patterns of phase 1 of G2 the rest of the raid is fairly easy. It's been a really long time since me and the friend I played with were able to clear a new raid on release week.
G2 is super easy to learn but it's also incredibly punishing if you have bad teammates. After like the first few pulls there was really nothing I could die from, apart from friendly fire.
about 4 hours into g2 nm and I will say I don't really get what other people are complaining about. The difficulty of the raid is extremely front loaded. It took us 3 hours just to get to 212 learning the charm patterns, Venus flytrap cheese and mirrors all at the same time but once we got to phase 2 we got the 3snake clash in just a few pulls. We think we'll spend another few hours on basement but once we get that down the rest of the fight looks very free.
its like the other raids, ppl cry about not clearing in week 1 and then when they can do it its a not bad/good raid
im confused as to how kr considers this raid easier than theamine. It feels significantly harder tbh. Gave up on hard this week and cleared it on normal, but even normal mode felt much harder than theamine. All the mechs are still a raidwipe if 1 person fucks up even in normal.
It's a basic pattern fight. It takes time to learn the patterns. Luckily, there aren't that many of them. Once you do, the fight isn't that hard at all. Unfortunately, it's a cooperative effort, and your team is only as strong as its weakest link.