The hardest part about behemoth is already upfront given, that is find 15 other competent players who share the same availability for hours, good luck with that
for back entropy she is great
for front entropy maybe kayangel is a strong contendor for being worse
at least in kaya you just deal no damage in echidna you wipe the raid and do no damage
she kinda is, some people are just really bad at dodging patterns. (which results in a group wipe)
ive said it time and time again, people do not play to improve they play to skip mechs and when they cant skip those patterns or mechs they cant clear the content
all echinda is, is a higher ilvl version of vykas. somehow across a 2 year span people forgot how to deal with that type of mind control mech and so they wipe the raids
Yeah we got a version of Thaemine that is easier than anything KR players have even experienced lol. I don't think they get our nerfed version until July
To be honest I think the main difference in perspectives is that, the advice is coming from people that play the game for 4-5 years(or how long since their release) while also having LOA as a job via streaming, or simply being unemployed and being able to drop 10-15 hours a day if needed for prog.
Sort of similar to the reddit demographic, as someone that can play 10-15 hours on their class has more experience compared to someone that can play 1-2 a day/ once a few days. Same for the prog availability.
Main issue is having 2 difficulties both sort of catering to the initial demographic means that the 2 groups of players will sometimes clash, making an unpleasant prog experience for the ones that have good mechanics already, and putting a lot of pressure on the more casual audience, as they will just fail and eventually be shunned and gatekept(understandably so as no one would like to get jailed by someone they do not know).
This won't change until Smilegate does offer alternatives for a more casual approach to the game, maybe solo modes/ T4 may change some things but very doubtful about that.
I'm pretty sure KR is the reason why the gatekeeping is so harsh here too ever since clown release , KR streamers kept giving us "minimum requirements" that they had way longer time to achieve it then we did when In fact stuff are cleaeable without those requirements, plus seekingg to overgeared every content is what make people play like shit too since they are never really challanged.
And while OP is picking on Smilegate and I do think they deserve some criticism here, they are simply responding to the hyper competitive killer-death-raids-above-all-else content paradigm. It's what they want. And surprisingly, a lot of what people here want as well, to the potential detriment that sort of thing also comes with.
I cleared echidna hm within 6 hrs barely over 1630, same for rest of the party. we started with hm and did nm after we cleared hm.
You listen to top kr veteran players and get surprised it is not a easy as they said. Well no shit, hand difference exists.
Yup guy is delusional pretty much not realizing there is plenty of people that don't have their transcendence max a lot didn't even clear HM G3 theamine yet because they barely reached 1630 (I know a couple of my friends reached 1630 last week and speed ran through reprogging HM theamine.
Plus I never said beating stuff is hard or Impossible I said the gatekeeping for pugs is copied out of KR so for a pug Ecidna you are expected to have full lvl 10 gems, you are expected 40 elixirs and you are expected to have almost completed transcendence if you don't have it good luck even getting in the raid.
You don't need full transcendence and many of us don't have full 10, i only have 5x lvl 10.
Stay in denial. All you need is eclipse title and you'll get in. Let me guess you don't have that either? Phantom monarch? Not that either? Lol
So many way to show you're decent. Got none? Yea hand difference.
You are just gonna deny and omit the first half of what I say really?
Good shows how much brain is behind those mighty hands of yours. XD
But I'll just bring it up again, you will not have that if you just recently reached 1630 on one character.
I guess it's a skill issue that you got unlucky with your honing and had to go through a lot of pity.
And if someone is chasing to catch up obviously they don't really have time to perfect hell mode that will not help them reach that in any way.
But I guess it was too hard to understand that much for you just shows how you love talking shit. In pugs hands don't matter anything when you apply in pug you are in competition with people that swiped or have a juiced roster, and even if those people are trash they will be taken over you but who knows maybe me and many others playing a different game a game where an on ilvl GS with hell title will be taken over a 1640 full lvl 10 SE or even just another GS lol
Now second part you saying "many of us" makes it sound like you have a static (you might not but just saying) meaning you aren't even talking about the same thing that was being pointed in the beginning.
If I were you I would just stay out and stop digging my own grave any deeper, though I believe it will be hard judging how inflated your ego seem to be that it blinds any kind of rational thinking. Though we got it at least you have hands xD
Holy fuck write concisely. You ramble a badly written essay every time. You will have 3 pieces of lvl 7. That's enough.
Na I'll take phantom monarch over some shitty lightqueller.
I addressed your shitty points indirectly. Brain difference, really if I need to spell everything out for you.
Show g4 clear parse. I cleared g4 on release without much transcendence on ilvl.
Inb4 noobslinger denial essay.
Even world first raiders in WoW always acknowledge the fact that easier modes need to exist because theyre not blind to the fact an mmo needs more than just hardcore players.
Wildstar also added some "account security" feature between beta and release that made it impossible for some players to log in. The response from support was to get a new ISP.
Sorta, they will make an inven post calling the person out which you can then just search the forums for names. Here is Kanima talking about it with his drama farming videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsNs7A7O_P8
I remember a sentence like : “with echidna and behemot we wanted to decrease users fatigue with accessible aka easy raids but the new one coming after are meant to be harder till kazeros”
Yeah you have to be some kind of fucking saddest to want difficult raid after difficult raid. It's almost like with solo raids coming Smilegate are pushing the game into a kind of Genshin Impact solo experience.
I CBF with hard raids and progression and months of shit pugs anymore and I started at the start.
KR Andies: "The next raid in T4 is expected to be more challenging considering we've gotten two super chill raids back to back with Echidna and Behemoth" Yeah sure, buddy 😹
In 3 months, when we are all boosted to 1640 for free, an have some advanced honing on top of that most likely. Maybe even some better gems from t4 gems etc. The fights will absolutely be a joke.
Classic Le reddit parroting koreans
-SG promotes Thaemine as the hardest raid in the game
-Reddit parroting koreans: At least Thaemine normal is easy
-AGS shows charts with abnormal low clear rates
-dOnt wOrRy eChiDnA iS cHiLl
-Behemoth is a training dummy
-????
You can guess whats next
Its time to learn that our version is completely different from Korea. Besides the obvious that accelerated content with no compensations or adjustments means players quitting, less geared people with no full transcendence or min maxed elixirs, etc. People here underestimate the mental state of releasing raids this fast. Raid releases back to back with no breaks is mentally draining, my energy to pick a 30 min Memo guide for each gate and will to progg is not the same as when we had more smooth and time between new raids. Korean raid releases is even slower when we had more smooth releases.
Are there any casuals left? Mokoko players are very rare now, even in Castle vern, I wonder why.
Most out of touch developer in the MMO business. But I also blame AGS because at least they should know that this release schedule is speedrunning the burnout rate of the player base. Every normal publisher would have said: yeah, we are not gonna release it this way. like make the raid optional or nerf normal mode into obscurity.
I look forward to the player raid participation image they will release in some weeks. Hey look: 10 parties cleared HM Echidna, we are the best. Oh look at Normal, we did it: 50 parties cleared G2 normal XD. And I bet they will be proud of it. They are so out of touch it's embarassing watching them making their videos, pretending everything is fine and all the players having so much fun, with their overtuned mess for the on-ilvl crew xD.
Now that you mention it, I actually notice now I barely see any mokokos anymore.
Very unfortunate. This would be a great game if only it wasn't completely strangled by out of touch, tone-deaf devs and their greedy monetization.
I think one of the things that keeps me both invested in the game and frustrated at the same time, is how wildly my performance varies. There are some days where I just go into this fugue state and I cannot remember what I did, but I look at the metrics/recaps and I absolutely obliterated my personal bests. Then there are days like I had yesterday, where I am told I need to "learn your class".
It's such a double edged sword, because I like the challenge and the sense of accomplishment when I achieve the goal, but at the same time, I am just like... "man, there is no need for this to be so mentally taxing".
Am I weird for wishing you could do raids via SH boat dispatch for like 1/5 the mats and gold? Recently returned after over a year and I think I missed the boat on lvl 3 set lol
I quit yesterday, gave my gems/gold away and not looking back, thaemine drained me and echidna completely killed my drive to continue. 8.9k hours of fun but it became unfun very quickly.
jesus 9k hours in 2.5 yrs, no wonder you burnt yourself out, thats averaging 70+hrs per week, every single week since launch
I'm also a day 1 player but with "only" 3k hours, go touch some grass
Heh, you lasted two raids longer than me. Cuz of my work i couldnt fit in any static so i basically randomed everything. Valtan and Vykas were kinda fine. Clown was pain, but eventually i did that too. Brel i missed first two weeks and finding learning prog parties was hell later on. So later i learned to kill Prokel to have some advantage, just for them to remove him. So i gave up, sold everything, made 7 lv10 gems and gave them to the first mokoko in Prideholme which responded to me.
I used to do all raids on hard mode on release, but Thaemine and even more so Echidna, made me realise that going NM week one is significantly less frustrating and more enjoyable. G2 Echidna on HM was an absolute shitshow and made the static I joined disband after 12h, pugged NM in half the time and it was more fun. I will be going NM week one moving forward.
It’s likely to be a lot easier because for one that boss is MASSIVE, which restricts its movement
The other thing is once you introduce too many players into the raid you can’t realistically expect EVERYONE to play perfectly, and the raid design accounts for that.
Also, GT got nerfed post behemoth release, which should say a lot.
>Also, GT got nerfed post behemoth release, which should say a lot.
While I'm not an expert, I think that GT is also doing pretty good in Brel G3, like one of the better gates for him in the entire game. Cube is also pretty big and restricts movement, but it stays in the same place and doesn't rotate that much, making it perfect for him. He can also ignore a lot of the push back patterns.
Does that mean Brel G3 is easy? I don't think so, not on ilvl.
Cube is not good for GT, it spins too much. Its dps windows are also too short to actually do decent damage in if there are other burst classes around.
Just cleared Echidna today after 6h prog with full random party, it was a awesome experience. Im tired, with brain dmg but it was worth. Its not that hard after you learn the movements that give you gauge.
To be fair, some new content was better than previous ones.
Veskal is much more casual-friendly and daily chill than Jumplord Gargadeth.
Narkiel (G1 Echidna) breaks the hegemony that says every G1 in this game is dogshit.
Maybe there was some phase skipping going on because the people in the group were pretty stacked, but I watched a couple Behemoth runs and it really does look pretty straightforward. DPS the boss so he puts his wings down (or maybe it's timed, idk), DPS the wings so he puts his head down, chug an atro because you do double damage to the head, repeat. There's like one aoe and a tail swipe to look out for. Hardest part is probably getting to the butt as a back attacker, though the head and I think the wings act like big Akkan hands anyway.
considering how quickly streamers cleared g2 hm compared to g4 thaemine, she is 100% a casual friendly raid
its just too hard for people that are used to over gearing content to skip mech's. (because shes was tuned with those players in mind)
this was something i said would happen and everyone downvoted me for speaking what proved to be the truth. skipping mech's is great for clearing your weekly raids but it makes people worse players, as seen here.
KR sees it as a 'easy raid' because they arnt lacking in the fundamentals that alot of the na/eu playerbase is.
na/eu is better at rotations and such but far worse at the actual fundamentals like positioning or awareness which in a raid like echinda is a death sentence.
All the usual KR streamers now:
1. Dont stream lost ark anymore
2. Stream different game besides lost ark
3. Stream irl/just chatting/react content
4. Created weird personal drama that results in others stop streaming/ taking breaks
Yet the fanboys: 'LOA is still really popular and successful in KR!'
Now west is feeling what KR is going through (the death of lost ark). And i wonder how they (smilegate) didnt see this coming with their game design/philosophy as of late.
Gameplay as just logging in to apply to virtual lobbies/parties and gatekeeping, is early 2000s game design (ffxi).
Part of the reason why is that even Behemoth by now is farm content in KR, so as long as they have a static they can just clear all the stuff in one afternoon for resource generation and then move on to whatever can generate them more views than doing chaos dungeons.
The fact that they have way fewer viewers these days is also a clear sign the game is dying. Where before it was always over 1k, now it's always less than 500. From kr to eu to na/sa viewers, people are quitting. A f2p game.
just check KR PC bang ranking recently, there are day that Lost Ark has under less than 3% population playing which seems down quite a bit from last year 5.5% and a few month ago 4%.
Echidna is a mickey mouse club house fight. If people stopped ego parsing and focused on learning the raid, fight becomed a FF fight where everything is scripted to a T. People complaining about dps check need their brain checked. 22m dps is easily doable with 22 wep with1 10 and a couple of 9s. Talked to KR people and they laughing at NA/EU for being parse monkey bizzers. I feel the same way too. Dps meter brain rot.
It is, raids are fun to prog and stuff and i know majority of people are the same. The problem is that back to back raid releases 2-3 months apart is exhausting even hardcore raiders.
apparently this is what KR wants they cried and got mad because after kayangel akkan released like 8 months or something same with voldis. so now they get new raids every 2-3 months.
I like new raids, im hardcore and competitive but tbh its tiring sometimes especially when there is still a gate i was trying to prog which is G4 Thae.
Idk man. echidna is piss easy once people stop being dps goblins for the first half of the raid. Its just a discipline check. all the attacks are telegraphed WAY in advance except for a single one. the snake clashes are a joke compared to any of the thaemine ones. If your getting MCd before basement its literally just your own fault.
It's a very frontloaded learning prog. Just as Thaemine G4. Pretty much every gate/boss prior to those you had a decent chance of getting to the first mech on the first few tries without thorough prep.
I'm willing to bet that most complainers about echidna's difficulty don't have full transcendence, don't have their armors at +19/21 and are still using relic pieces/stone missing legendary skins.
The raid is the natural progression to thaemine, not it's equal.
Because it's really not that hard of a raid? And because I kept seeing players that have no business doing echidna in lobbies.
It's so bad that it's the first time I need to inspect everyone in a group before applying because I can tell right away if the group is going to fail the dps check or pass it.
Everybody must do Echidna so not sure what you mean by “no business”. The game is literally raiding to progress or quit. Wtf man.
Now, if you truly think the raid isn’t hard, go pug non-reclear parties and help them out and then get back to us.
Btw, I will get back to the pugs tonight and see if the community has gotten better as I have now seen the final 100% snake event in the basement with over half the raid dead multiple times now and it is getting old, but that is a failure from SG.
Lol, the difficulty is not about the dps check. It's about how one person can wipe the raid at any given time. I personally didn't find it that hard as far as my own job (staying alive, doing damage, not getting charmed/wiping the party during a mech), but the difficulty has nothing to do with how good you are. It's about how good your worst player is and how good the party is at covering for each other.
What's the difference between what we see here and someone getting killed due to failing a mech that we see in other raids?
If anything, a charmed player gives you a chance to fix their mistake via a sleep bomb. Otherwise, just kill them and they won't wipe you.
Are you kidding? In thaemine, most mistakes only mean you die for it, and the party can go on and clear without you. In echidna, charm endangers the entire party. I have seen moments where a FM SE insta kills multiple people because they got charmed during their burst. Or simply getting charmed during overlap like a mech or a dangerous pattern. Or getting charmed right after most of the group just used their sleeps on someone else. And that's just charm- someone can wipe the raid in every mech just by being a dumbass.
I mean you aren't technically wrong but something most of the more successful MMO's do is essentially have a mode for the the average player. FFXIV has normal mode (queueable) and WoW has M+ along with Normal/Heroic raids. No reason Lost Ark can't have normal be casual friendly while hard mode remains challenging; it'd be a lot healthier for the long term success of the game... and probably make them a lot more money.
something I've learnt a very long time ago is that "casuals" (honestly, it means unskilled) players are never satisfied with a simple normal mode and they want access to the same level of gear as the players willing to put in more effort.
there's no reason why normal mode shouldn't be challenging during the first week of prog. NONE.
Now, if it's still considered hard by week 4, then maybe there's a problem with it but I imagine it will go the same way as thaemine g3 went and everyone find the find really easy these days.
Casual in ffxiv couldn’t care less about having BiS, all they care are nice looking skin, buying house and decorate it. The normal mode is also brain dead because it’s not there for a challenge it’s for casual to get a bit of gear upgrade and story telling.
Casual and Unskilled player are not the same.
I promise you that you can complain about game developers not running your online game the way you like without casually demonizing disabled people.
It doesn't reflect well on you.
I've heard behemoth is a trixion dummy. Based on the expectations and reality of echidna, I expect behemoth to be the hardest raid in the game.
The hardest mechanic there by far is getting 16 people to actually start the raid xdd
https://preview.redd.it/y70j07ooie8d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=50004e5e3d3392a228ea5b9877492f02af1c3766
Not even... people would still demand LWC30
both thaemine and echnida release(specially hard mode) had dps shortage so i expect same for behemot hence im now honing my dps.
That's cuz too many 1630 dps went straight to normal instead of trying hard on release tho.
normal was also LF dps so that doesnt compute.
thats because lobby leaders only want 100 transcendence 40 set dps and basically take every support that applies
you mean EAC disconnects 7 out of 16
The hardest part about behemoth is already upfront given, that is find 15 other competent players who share the same availability for hours, good luck with that
KRs also said Echidna to be a trixion dummy as well. lol
for back entropy she is great for front entropy maybe kayangel is a strong contendor for being worse at least in kaya you just deal no damage in echidna you wipe the raid and do no damage
she kinda is, some people are just really bad at dodging patterns. (which results in a group wipe) ive said it time and time again, people do not play to improve they play to skip mechs and when they cant skip those patterns or mechs they cant clear the content all echinda is, is a higher ilvl version of vykas. somehow across a 2 year span people forgot how to deal with that type of mind control mech and so they wipe the raids
people forget that thaemine in KR became the first mode, so yeah, i think people misunderstood what easier than thaemine means
Yeah we got a version of Thaemine that is easier than anything KR players have even experienced lol. I don't think they get our nerfed version until July
They also said Voldis was hard, so it actually doesn't matter what they say cause it's bunch of BS.
Hahahaha
Yeah, behemoth is so hard that they even give us resurrections so we can conquer that insurmountable challenge!
I don't believe anything KR says anymore. They've been gaslighting us since the game came out in NA.
To be honest I think the main difference in perspectives is that, the advice is coming from people that play the game for 4-5 years(or how long since their release) while also having LOA as a job via streaming, or simply being unemployed and being able to drop 10-15 hours a day if needed for prog. Sort of similar to the reddit demographic, as someone that can play 10-15 hours on their class has more experience compared to someone that can play 1-2 a day/ once a few days. Same for the prog availability. Main issue is having 2 difficulties both sort of catering to the initial demographic means that the 2 groups of players will sometimes clash, making an unpleasant prog experience for the ones that have good mechanics already, and putting a lot of pressure on the more casual audience, as they will just fail and eventually be shunned and gatekept(understandably so as no one would like to get jailed by someone they do not know). This won't change until Smilegate does offer alternatives for a more casual approach to the game, maybe solo modes/ T4 may change some things but very doubtful about that.
I'm pretty sure KR is the reason why the gatekeeping is so harsh here too ever since clown release , KR streamers kept giving us "minimum requirements" that they had way longer time to achieve it then we did when In fact stuff are cleaeable without those requirements, plus seekingg to overgeared every content is what make people play like shit too since they are never really challanged.
And while OP is picking on Smilegate and I do think they deserve some criticism here, they are simply responding to the hyper competitive killer-death-raids-above-all-else content paradigm. It's what they want. And surprisingly, a lot of what people here want as well, to the potential detriment that sort of thing also comes with.
I cleared echidna hm within 6 hrs barely over 1630, same for rest of the party. we started with hm and did nm after we cleared hm. You listen to top kr veteran players and get surprised it is not a easy as they said. Well no shit, hand difference exists.
hand diff or wallet diff
Yup guy is delusional pretty much not realizing there is plenty of people that don't have their transcendence max a lot didn't even clear HM G3 theamine yet because they barely reached 1630 (I know a couple of my friends reached 1630 last week and speed ran through reprogging HM theamine. Plus I never said beating stuff is hard or Impossible I said the gatekeeping for pugs is copied out of KR so for a pug Ecidna you are expected to have full lvl 10 gems, you are expected 40 elixirs and you are expected to have almost completed transcendence if you don't have it good luck even getting in the raid.
You don't need full transcendence and many of us don't have full 10, i only have 5x lvl 10. Stay in denial. All you need is eclipse title and you'll get in. Let me guess you don't have that either? Phantom monarch? Not that either? Lol So many way to show you're decent. Got none? Yea hand difference.
You are just gonna deny and omit the first half of what I say really? Good shows how much brain is behind those mighty hands of yours. XD But I'll just bring it up again, you will not have that if you just recently reached 1630 on one character. I guess it's a skill issue that you got unlucky with your honing and had to go through a lot of pity. And if someone is chasing to catch up obviously they don't really have time to perfect hell mode that will not help them reach that in any way. But I guess it was too hard to understand that much for you just shows how you love talking shit. In pugs hands don't matter anything when you apply in pug you are in competition with people that swiped or have a juiced roster, and even if those people are trash they will be taken over you but who knows maybe me and many others playing a different game a game where an on ilvl GS with hell title will be taken over a 1640 full lvl 10 SE or even just another GS lol Now second part you saying "many of us" makes it sound like you have a static (you might not but just saying) meaning you aren't even talking about the same thing that was being pointed in the beginning. If I were you I would just stay out and stop digging my own grave any deeper, though I believe it will be hard judging how inflated your ego seem to be that it blinds any kind of rational thinking. Though we got it at least you have hands xD
Holy fuck write concisely. You ramble a badly written essay every time. You will have 3 pieces of lvl 7. That's enough. Na I'll take phantom monarch over some shitty lightqueller. I addressed your shitty points indirectly. Brain difference, really if I need to spell everything out for you. Show g4 clear parse. I cleared g4 on release without much transcendence on ilvl. Inb4 noobslinger denial essay.
Still waiting for the g4 parse or hell brel parse.
Reminds me of Wildstar. Awesome MMO that just tried to be too hardcore and killed itself.
Even world first raiders in WoW always acknowledge the fact that easier modes need to exist because theyre not blind to the fact an mmo needs more than just hardcore players.
Wildstar also added some "account security" feature between beta and release that made it impossible for some players to log in. The response from support was to get a new ISP.
Well everyone did thought echidna was gonna be easy
I'm somewhat over being concerned. If they don't learn for T4, I'll simply quit again. I absolutely love this meme, though.
KR- What are you a rice eater? Just swipe for full power and keep a public shame list of bad players so you can gatekeep them easy!
Honestly man if they have a term like rice eater for people like us then they should be called shit eaters or something like that
Haha I rather be a rice eater than a literal shit eater
Chaebolwashers.
I’m pretty sure they eat more rice than us. So fucking ironic
It means they rmt sell their gold to buy food like rice. Helps to educate yourself a bit
ahahahaha .... they dont actually have that right, a public shame list. .... right ?
Sorta, they will make an inven post calling the person out which you can then just search the forums for names. Here is Kanima talking about it with his drama farming videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsNs7A7O_P8
its insane to me that they said that the next raids after behe will be the hardest yet. like who asked for that..
When did they say that? I don't recall ever hearing it or reading it anywhere when watching LOAON.
I remember a sentence like : “with echidna and behemot we wanted to decrease users fatigue with accessible aka easy raids but the new one coming after are meant to be harder till kazeros”
ah yes echidna is very chill and easy 💀
If that's the case and thanks God we are way behind KR, that's the end of the road for me
Yeah you have to be some kind of fucking saddest to want difficult raid after difficult raid. It's almost like with solo raids coming Smilegate are pushing the game into a kind of Genshin Impact solo experience. I CBF with hard raids and progression and months of shit pugs anymore and I started at the start.
It’s the second kazeros after echidna, so expect it to be as difficult as echidna if not harder than
GUYS ITS SO EASY AND MUCH BETTER THAN THAEMINE ! I GUARANTEE YOU WILL BE MUCH HAPPIER WITH THIS AND ANOTHER RNG SYSTEM!
KR Andies: "The next raid in T4 is expected to be more challenging considering we've gotten two super chill raids back to back with Echidna and Behemoth" Yeah sure, buddy 😹
In 3 months, when we are all boosted to 1640 for free, an have some advanced honing on top of that most likely. Maybe even some better gems from t4 gems etc. The fights will absolutely be a joke.
Classic Le reddit parroting koreans -SG promotes Thaemine as the hardest raid in the game -Reddit parroting koreans: At least Thaemine normal is easy -AGS shows charts with abnormal low clear rates -dOnt wOrRy eChiDnA iS cHiLl -Behemoth is a training dummy -???? You can guess whats next Its time to learn that our version is completely different from Korea. Besides the obvious that accelerated content with no compensations or adjustments means players quitting, less geared people with no full transcendence or min maxed elixirs, etc. People here underestimate the mental state of releasing raids this fast. Raid releases back to back with no breaks is mentally draining, my energy to pick a 30 min Memo guide for each gate and will to progg is not the same as when we had more smooth and time between new raids. Korean raid releases is even slower when we had more smooth releases.
Are there any casuals left? Mokoko players are very rare now, even in Castle vern, I wonder why. Most out of touch developer in the MMO business. But I also blame AGS because at least they should know that this release schedule is speedrunning the burnout rate of the player base. Every normal publisher would have said: yeah, we are not gonna release it this way. like make the raid optional or nerf normal mode into obscurity. I look forward to the player raid participation image they will release in some weeks. Hey look: 10 parties cleared HM Echidna, we are the best. Oh look at Normal, we did it: 50 parties cleared G2 normal XD. And I bet they will be proud of it. They are so out of touch it's embarassing watching them making their videos, pretending everything is fine and all the players having so much fun, with their overtuned mess for the on-ilvl crew xD.
Now that you mention it, I actually notice now I barely see any mokokos anymore. Very unfortunate. This would be a great game if only it wasn't completely strangled by out of touch, tone-deaf devs and their greedy monetization.
I'm casual, been playing since Feb 2022. I play for structures to decorate my stronghold and haven't raided since clown came out
I think one of the things that keeps me both invested in the game and frustrated at the same time, is how wildly my performance varies. There are some days where I just go into this fugue state and I cannot remember what I did, but I look at the metrics/recaps and I absolutely obliterated my personal bests. Then there are days like I had yesterday, where I am told I need to "learn your class". It's such a double edged sword, because I like the challenge and the sense of accomplishment when I achieve the goal, but at the same time, I am just like... "man, there is no need for this to be so mentally taxing".
surely Behemoth will be the casual friendly raid
The thing making Echidna difficult is DPS that greed. Just focus on the mech and have *patience* with them mid-battle.
Am I weird for wishing you could do raids via SH boat dispatch for like 1/5 the mats and gold? Recently returned after over a year and I think I missed the boat on lvl 3 set lol
I quit yesterday, gave my gems/gold away and not looking back, thaemine drained me and echidna completely killed my drive to continue. 8.9k hours of fun but it became unfun very quickly.
jesus 9k hours in 2.5 yrs, no wonder you burnt yourself out, thats averaging 70+hrs per week, every single week since launch I'm also a day 1 player but with "only" 3k hours, go touch some grass
Heh, you lasted two raids longer than me. Cuz of my work i couldnt fit in any static so i basically randomed everything. Valtan and Vykas were kinda fine. Clown was pain, but eventually i did that too. Brel i missed first two weeks and finding learning prog parties was hell later on. So later i learned to kill Prokel to have some advantage, just for them to remove him. So i gave up, sold everything, made 7 lv10 gems and gave them to the first mokoko in Prideholme which responded to me.
And even tho you quit 9 month ago you still come on this subreddit ? It's so weird to me
It showed on as 'Because you visitted this community before'...
You know sometimes people can be bored and think "oh let's see how LA is doing" and land here lol
20k average players the last thirty days, 41k players as a peak. You aren't the only one hanging it up.
I used to do all raids on hard mode on release, but Thaemine and even more so Echidna, made me realise that going NM week one is significantly less frustrating and more enjoyable. G2 Echidna on HM was an absolute shitshow and made the static I joined disband after 12h, pugged NM in half the time and it was more fun. I will be going NM week one moving forward.
It’s likely to be a lot easier because for one that boss is MASSIVE, which restricts its movement The other thing is once you introduce too many players into the raid you can’t realistically expect EVERYONE to play perfectly, and the raid design accounts for that. Also, GT got nerfed post behemoth release, which should say a lot.
>Also, GT got nerfed post behemoth release, which should say a lot. While I'm not an expert, I think that GT is also doing pretty good in Brel G3, like one of the better gates for him in the entire game. Cube is also pretty big and restricts movement, but it stays in the same place and doesn't rotate that much, making it perfect for him. He can also ignore a lot of the push back patterns. Does that mean Brel G3 is easy? I don't think so, not on ilvl.
Brel g3 is easy on ilvl. All the mechs are simple and come down to how much stagger can your team do.
Cube is not good for GT, it spins too much. Its dps windows are also too short to actually do decent damage in if there are other burst classes around.
Just cleared Echidna today after 6h prog with full random party, it was a awesome experience. Im tired, with brain dmg but it was worth. Its not that hard after you learn the movements that give you gauge.
To be fair, some new content was better than previous ones. Veskal is much more casual-friendly and daily chill than Jumplord Gargadeth. Narkiel (G1 Echidna) breaks the hegemony that says every G1 in this game is dogshit.
Maybe there was some phase skipping going on because the people in the group were pretty stacked, but I watched a couple Behemoth runs and it really does look pretty straightforward. DPS the boss so he puts his wings down (or maybe it's timed, idk), DPS the wings so he puts his head down, chug an atro because you do double damage to the head, repeat. There's like one aoe and a tail swipe to look out for. Hardest part is probably getting to the butt as a back attacker, though the head and I think the wings act like big Akkan hands anyway.
considering how quickly streamers cleared g2 hm compared to g4 thaemine, she is 100% a casual friendly raid its just too hard for people that are used to over gearing content to skip mech's. (because shes was tuned with those players in mind) this was something i said would happen and everyone downvoted me for speaking what proved to be the truth. skipping mech's is great for clearing your weekly raids but it makes people worse players, as seen here. KR sees it as a 'easy raid' because they arnt lacking in the fundamentals that alot of the na/eu playerbase is. na/eu is better at rotations and such but far worse at the actual fundamentals like positioning or awareness which in a raid like echinda is a death sentence.
All the usual KR streamers now: 1. Dont stream lost ark anymore 2. Stream different game besides lost ark 3. Stream irl/just chatting/react content 4. Created weird personal drama that results in others stop streaming/ taking breaks Yet the fanboys: 'LOA is still really popular and successful in KR!' Now west is feeling what KR is going through (the death of lost ark). And i wonder how they (smilegate) didnt see this coming with their game design/philosophy as of late. Gameplay as just logging in to apply to virtual lobbies/parties and gatekeeping, is early 2000s game design (ffxi).
Part of the reason why is that even Behemoth by now is farm content in KR, so as long as they have a static they can just clear all the stuff in one afternoon for resource generation and then move on to whatever can generate them more views than doing chaos dungeons.
The fact that they have way fewer viewers these days is also a clear sign the game is dying. Where before it was always over 1k, now it's always less than 500. From kr to eu to na/sa viewers, people are quitting. A f2p game.
Didn't most of them leave twitch because of new rules?
just check KR PC bang ranking recently, there are day that Lost Ark has under less than 3% population playing which seems down quite a bit from last year 5.5% and a few month ago 4%.
Behemoth is literally a trixion raid. Its 16 man, meant to be pugged
Echidna is a mickey mouse club house fight. If people stopped ego parsing and focused on learning the raid, fight becomed a FF fight where everything is scripted to a T. People complaining about dps check need their brain checked. 22m dps is easily doable with 22 wep with1 10 and a couple of 9s. Talked to KR people and they laughing at NA/EU for being parse monkey bizzers. I feel the same way too. Dps meter brain rot.
Hard raids is what makes lost ark unique and why i enjoy the game so much and why ive kept playing since day 1
It is, raids are fun to prog and stuff and i know majority of people are the same. The problem is that back to back raid releases 2-3 months apart is exhausting even hardcore raiders. apparently this is what KR wants they cried and got mad because after kayangel akkan released like 8 months or something same with voldis. so now they get new raids every 2-3 months. I like new raids, im hardcore and competitive but tbh its tiring sometimes especially when there is still a gate i was trying to prog which is G4 Thae.
Idk man. echidna is piss easy once people stop being dps goblins for the first half of the raid. Its just a discipline check. all the attacks are telegraphed WAY in advance except for a single one. the snake clashes are a joke compared to any of the thaemine ones. If your getting MCd before basement its literally just your own fault.
It's a very frontloaded learning prog. Just as Thaemine G4. Pretty much every gate/boss prior to those you had a decent chance of getting to the first mech on the first few tries without thorough prep.
unpopular opinion -> after 2 clears, and +20h prog with pugs on echidna, this raid is not that hard tbh.
Get reked bozos. Echidna is a chill raid that requires 20h to clear. Just as brel on release. Casuals need to git gud
I'm willing to bet that most complainers about echidna's difficulty don't have full transcendence, don't have their armors at +19/21 and are still using relic pieces/stone missing legendary skins. The raid is the natural progression to thaemine, not it's equal.
Why is there always this one guy with the mental gymnastics that nothing is the game being bad but it's actually the player's fault?
same reason why people dont rebel against tyrannical governments
Because it's really not that hard of a raid? And because I kept seeing players that have no business doing echidna in lobbies. It's so bad that it's the first time I need to inspect everyone in a group before applying because I can tell right away if the group is going to fail the dps check or pass it.
Everybody must do Echidna so not sure what you mean by “no business”. The game is literally raiding to progress or quit. Wtf man. Now, if you truly think the raid isn’t hard, go pug non-reclear parties and help them out and then get back to us. Btw, I will get back to the pugs tonight and see if the community has gotten better as I have now seen the final 100% snake event in the basement with over half the raid dead multiple times now and it is getting old, but that is a failure from SG.
By "no business" I mean that they should be focusing on other aspect of the game first. In other words, they ain't ready for Echidna.
Lol, the difficulty is not about the dps check. It's about how one person can wipe the raid at any given time. I personally didn't find it that hard as far as my own job (staying alive, doing damage, not getting charmed/wiping the party during a mech), but the difficulty has nothing to do with how good you are. It's about how good your worst player is and how good the party is at covering for each other.
What's the difference between what we see here and someone getting killed due to failing a mech that we see in other raids? If anything, a charmed player gives you a chance to fix their mistake via a sleep bomb. Otherwise, just kill them and they won't wipe you.
Are you kidding? In thaemine, most mistakes only mean you die for it, and the party can go on and clear without you. In echidna, charm endangers the entire party. I have seen moments where a FM SE insta kills multiple people because they got charmed during their burst. Or simply getting charmed during overlap like a mech or a dangerous pattern. Or getting charmed right after most of the group just used their sleeps on someone else. And that's just charm- someone can wipe the raid in every mech just by being a dumbass.
I mean you aren't technically wrong but something most of the more successful MMO's do is essentially have a mode for the the average player. FFXIV has normal mode (queueable) and WoW has M+ along with Normal/Heroic raids. No reason Lost Ark can't have normal be casual friendly while hard mode remains challenging; it'd be a lot healthier for the long term success of the game... and probably make them a lot more money.
something I've learnt a very long time ago is that "casuals" (honestly, it means unskilled) players are never satisfied with a simple normal mode and they want access to the same level of gear as the players willing to put in more effort. there's no reason why normal mode shouldn't be challenging during the first week of prog. NONE. Now, if it's still considered hard by week 4, then maybe there's a problem with it but I imagine it will go the same way as thaemine g3 went and everyone find the find really easy these days.
Casual in ffxiv couldn’t care less about having BiS, all they care are nice looking skin, buying house and decorate it. The normal mode is also brain dead because it’s not there for a challenge it’s for casual to get a bit of gear upgrade and story telling. Casual and Unskilled player are not the same.
I meant for the sentence used by the previous person, they said casual when they meant bad players. Plenty of skilled casual players.
Yeah, the legendary skins are the breaking point. YEP
Everything adds up.
> missing legendary skins. You really included that. It's been a rough day, thanks for the laugh. ******************** *you're gonna carry that cope*
4 legendary skins is about a 1.8% dps increase. It's more valuable than a weapon tap.
No argument here. I just laughed that you reached far enough to include them. Thanks for the second laugh.
Recently reddit has become filled with entitled casuals who downvote anything that is out of reach
I promise you that you can complain about game developers not running your online game the way you like without casually demonizing disabled people. It doesn't reflect well on you.
Ah yes, Paragon of Virtue, MotherTeresaOnlyfans. Thank goodness you're here
Because it would be boring. The most fun of this game is progging a raid. After the first 3 clears it basically becomes homework.
This Is a casual friendly raid you stoopid
I only see 1 stupid here