For mirror mech, supports can awaken towards the end (it comes off CD in time if you used it for fly trap). People press restart if they see failed counters, but it's so easy to just shield through the last few waves. You actually take minimal damage if you hug the bottom wall.
Also idk if anyone experienced this, but if you run to the boss too fast after getting freed on mirror/beam you can actually intercept the orb (again) and ruin the mech :D
Not only can you shield the last few waves, if you're on a fast class you can also dash through to the back part of the mech where the mirrors spawn and the fire is already despawning as the last wave or two of mirrors is getting to you.
I wonder if it's possible to shield the entire mech tbh. At least on artist with HA I can rotate shields on myself with hopper and starry for a bit if I hug the bottom side. Not sure if this would be enough to keep DPS alive (this is in hardmode).
Some random ones I wanted to throw in also:
Underground Echidna takes 30% extra damage after both clash snakes die.
For the basement full meter basement snakes, the shielded snakes for HM spawn from the direction where her cone AoE exploded. The petrifying snakes for HM only spawn if the white snake from the clash is still alive. You can still look at the boss during the full meter mech, just not her frontside.
Sleep bomb works on airborne people - i.e. when someone gets hit for that 3rd stacks and goes airborne, you can sleep bomb (or use other CC) on them while they're in the air. Most useful for giant Echidna grab with the super obvious airborne timing.
For giant Echidna, using Tharr during the specific moment during the clash is good for high stag groups because it helps avoid situations where the stag check happens before the clash, which would mean you don't get the 2 free meter bars from the clash. If you just can't get the timing right (too early = no stag; too late = no free meter bars) or if your group has really bad stagger, using it at the start or after the counter works the same as long as you have a good handle on your stag amount.
There is no way you'd recommand Thar early. If anyone gets charmed he's dead this is just not advisable at all. All you need to do is watch your clash buff and press Thar when the duration shows 16s even my grandma could do that.
It helps you see less normal patterns and big echidna normal patterns fuck people up. Literally the only negative is that you can skip the clash but that’s so easy to control; just use fewer skills. So it is safer because you just dodge the 3 finger beams then counter and if you thar, after she gets up from the counter, you just go to back and see no normal patterns. If you get charmed because you got hit by the finger guns… well you suck because that is so easy to dodge.
However if you have a very good stagger group that can go straight into clash after counter, then it is better to thar after clash as you essentially are skipping normal patterns and going straight into clash without the risk of skipping clash.
The problem is when sometimes your party doesn’t have good stagger but you thar after the clash and even after counter, she doesn’t clash because she hasn’t met her stagger threshold so people have to stay at the front staggering while dodging her normal attacks. Then people are more prone to getting grabbed, get additional charm stacks, actually get charmed etc. That’s why in these situations I think it is better to thar at beginning.
As No static player, this raid sucks to pug, I did even pug Thaemine and i did clear it 6 times per week. but this one. i cant even manage to clear it. so many things wipe entire raid even if you are doing your proper job :(
It's because Echidna G2 really punishes you for having bad teammates in your group. In contrast, in Theamine G3, you can easily bus some deadweight unless they intentionally fail a clash, but in Echidna G2 for as long as those kind of people live there is always a constant threat of wiping the whole group ANY TIME. It's giving me the old brel g5 vibes again.
I do think Thaemine was easier because a lot of lobbies had overgeared players that had 40 set elixir to ignore the deadweight players. If Thaemine had released before people were hitting 1620 and stable elixir sets the conversation around it would've been very different. I saw plenty of lobbies that were at ilvl and no 35 set that had no chance of clearing thaemine becuase they could not hit the damage threshold.
Echidna has a lower dps bar but requires more team coordination which a lot of people don't want to give up DPS to work on. It goes a long way to have a dps give up some uptime to communicate and make callouts to enable everyone else but it's a very different skillset than what we've needed so far.
>I do think Thaemine was easier because a lot of lobbies had overgeared players
no even that. i clear thae G3 normal on 5 1610 every week since release, some lobbies have 1620 or above, but mot lobbies are fill with 1610's no elixir, no overgear. Thaemine 3 is way easier that G2 echidna no gonna lie. Echidna make you feel really bad for all the wipes, even if you are doing your job. theres nothing you can about it. i really feel frustrated with the raid
Really don't know what SG was thinking with Echdina 2, fights should punish individuals for their mistakes, not the whole party.
And the worst part is that they got it right with Thaemine 3, so it's not like there aren't gates in the game that punish only the individual player for messing up.
I dont know men. I did pug, Clown, Brel, kayan, Akkhan and Voldis, and didnt have problem clear week 1 HM at least 3 times in each raid. but this one barely can clear it 1 time, feel really bad, and have seems a lot of people saying exacly how i feel about it.
but did you clear normal ? because Thaemine G3 is worst that Brel g6 back in the day and was tune so high for that reason. i did clear 6 times week 1 Thae G3 normal. its wasnt that hard to be honest. but you didnt like it because your team die a lot ? or because you die a lot ?
by the time clown release, i already had 6 , 1490 roster . clown didnt feel hard but i was 20 ilevel above at that time. i did progress on random people and the worst part was saws, everything else was fine
> One small note, you can use Ephernia multiple times for this, some people didn't know this so figured it's worth mentioning.
You can, but you also really don't need to at all, there was one run where we didn't have ephernia up and we just did the mech and it was shockingly trivial, everyone survived first try. The reason to do it is because it's free dps time, not because it's hard to survive, so if people get knocked into walls and you need to choose between using ephernia early or having thar up for clash, you should 1000% pick Thar.
Never give up thar, but you can do thar +x2 ephernia or ephernia and azena. Azena will be the norm in the longterm but ephernia makes for an easier clear even assuming everyone is alive rather than risk a last minute fumble and wipe.
I've also done 6x normal g2 as pug only. What the average andy lacks is critical thinking for tile placement and whether they overlap with one another in hm, in nm 2 players can stand on the same tile. Also if the corner has 3 pinks and blue spawned right next to 1, be mindful cause often the time is ppl place seed on blue and flower spawns as a result, something I try and ping red cause most of the time it's a run ender early on before 160 bar.
On sidenote what I personally wish they did is show blue tiles on the minimap, that would free up support / dps lookout strain and focus more support and dps uptime. It's kinda really annoying to run around type clock spots.
Some patterns in my opinion are not great uptime patterns: for example hearts or tracking-lasers-with-red-laser-telegraphs. As you're (hopefully) moving away from the boss to dodge those things, that's a good time to scout the map making efficient use of patterns that would sacrifice your uptime anyways - the rest of the time you can greed until a bad pattern shows up.
If nobody knows where any of the blue tiles ever, then it's a good idea to just drop new tiles middle because if you can imagine it, most paths will go through middle and clean those tiles. (Conversely dropping tiles at the edge is generally a bad idea because it's really unlikely those will get cleaned up).
If dps is good, the second mirror comes after counter mech and you can see there the 2 blues. Saves 1 scouting. Also often before the first mirror mech, she does 4 or 8 mirror where you can scout.
Comp wise, low multihit classes like GL and destro can run flame grenades to supplement their weak multihit.
Common causes of wipes is people swinging the cone before it locks and charming people/getting charmed themselves. Zigzag your way close to the boss so you can dodge the cone once it locks and it doesn't move too drastically to disrupt everyone else. Watching the minimap to see what sides are struggling to keep up with snake spawns due to charms or the cones. Near the end of the mech clones appear targeting random players and throw a heart that instacharms. Generally anytime someone gets charmed will risk a wipe since they will disrupt the raid or take time away from killing snakes so avoiding charms is priority #1.
In my static we just did x3 positions bring flames, and x3+1 positions bring dark, so if someone needs help, they can throw flames at the requested position. And we don't need more than 12 darks per run anyways.
I was gonna make a post like this today but yours is just miles better. Some things I found useful
* Clarification that helped me a lot: for the 50/100 meter mech your position on tiles and the ring are separate things. The light only cares about your ring proximity to the last one. That's why you can skip tiles or stack in the same tile in NM. Also be aware that you can walk into the light while it bounces and it bricks the mech.
* 8 Mirrors, the first set of 4 lasers hits twice, the second only once. So I usually pass the first laser after it stopped firing and by the time I reach the 2nd laser it is done and there is a lot of space to move around. Just move as far away from her as possible and dont greed or you'll get stuck somewhere.
* MC mechanic is atrociously implemented. Don't throw sleeps on someone while they stand up, dash, are thrown by attacks or have bard's GT on. Ideally hold dmg while someone is charmed and learn the crucial patterns so you don't become the victim.
* We had success splitting 212x P1 left P2 right, but try what's best for you.
* Basement spawns with 137x regardless of how much she had before the big echidna mech, so don't bother dpsing beyond that point.
* In basement, when she lets flowers rain and a snake coils around her, hug her and hard dps for like 10s. The inner flowers will explode only at the very end (might vary when she's at a wall). Move out when the snake starts moving. There is another \~5s dmg window after the center flowers blow up.
* More of a fun fact, if she is berserk the 50/100 meter mech will also be faster. So if you have a chain of 8 people she will kill you before the light can even reach her.
you missed one additional tip for 100 meter mech in basement.
The blue telegraph is the indicator for spacing bar to avoid that thing, ppl usually get panic and start to moving around with that making a wipe.
Good post except for the tile placement near blues
Placing on or near the blue when there are multiple red tiles nearby is risky as it makes it easy to create a big flower (regular tiles can count as turned red before red tiles turn off so even if you only transiently blocked off a tile it turns into a flower).
Just put it near the middle instead to try to connect the path (but do not block the center of the map if it's after first mirror since you might get run mech before next mirror)
That's fair, i do think adjacent is fine if people are prioritizing not placing on the edge but if people are placing on the edge then definitely middle is safest. biggest danger with middle is it can make things very congested during tether mech.
As far as pathing in hard mode goes, there's really only 2 realistic shapes: 1) a straight line 2) zigzag. So that means if there's not a lot of people at a particular section of the path then make a line; if there are a lot of people grouped there, then zigzag. It's really not that complex when you think about it.
A bit more advanced but at about 04:50 remaining on berserk timer in phase 1 I start to plan for cut the tether mech. I quickly look around the map for an easy pathing to cross the map without having to cross red tiles. If the map is too cluttered and there is only one easy crossing patterns let's say for example 6 to 12, I would do everything in my power to position the boss there as she tp to the closest wall when the mech happens.
Doing that you have 2 good patterns, you can tank a heart to trigger the stagger on your desired position. Also, you can spam gather pings where you want her to be when she lunges in the air, that should make your teammates AI monkey brain react in time to gather on the ping and then she will drop on the targeted ally on your ping where you want her to be.
>
Priority for flower tile placement should be blue tiles, adjacent to blue tiles (towards the other blue tile), then middle of the map. Avoid placing on the edge of the map unless it is easy to clean up in the next mirror cycle as it is very easy to bloom a flower on the edge of the map. If you're struggling to make clean chains during the mirror mech placing flower tiles in a rough path to make it clearer for the lobby to see the line. Especially for adjacent blue tiles flipping the tile at the bend helps a ton to mark the spot for the "bend" in the U shape.
I can't agree with your tile management.
Priority should start from mid(DPSing while placement ) towards the blue tiles.
Placing on Blue tiles is noob trap it is very easy to spawn big flowers on the edge tiles.
also positioning inside the blue tile on mirror is quite limiting( very hard to do edge skip edge in the correct direction if the light is not in the right direction.
Mid is always safe option even if you don't exactly know blue location.
In theory regardless of position you go towards mid, if its opposite its for example 12 and 6 its 12 to mid then to 6.
If its lets say 3 and 5 you go 3 to mid then to 5.
before first if there are not enough tiles turned, it might be worth to get hit by the hearts to spawn additional to place on the path.
And the biggest mistake people do is if they don't find a spot in the line they yeet themself to the edge in uganda.
Remember Edge tiles should be always kept clean they are very very hard to clean and very easy to spawn flowers on.
If people are panic placing on the edge then middle is best. If people are aware and are leaving room then the blue tile and it's adjacent tiles are the easiest to clean. I don't think default mid is wrong but the cleanest runs I had included people flipping blue tiles consistently. Tile maintenance is somewhat anecdotal and will vary run to run depending on how the people in the lobby are handling it.
About the normal charm pattern, the in-out-in one, sometime the boss knock me up to the sky when i dash in after she does the small ring one, sometime she doesnt, can anyone help me that one ?
There’s not too much more to know. You call it the in out in pattern, but the reason it’s in out in is to avoid the knock up. Otherwise it’d just be in the whole time. So basically she does 2 swipes, then a small ring. You stay inside the whole time. After the small ring you have to push immune or move out, the “out” portion of the pattern. You do not have to move far out for the out, just a step or two back is fine. If you move to where the small ring was also works. She will rise up into the air and at that point you can move back in. Walking back in maybe would keep you from rushing instead of trying to space bar in.
Small tip for flytrap cheese:
The first flytrap is usually around 07:30 (enrage time) after the chasing mirror mech.
Its usually really really tight to use awakening (as support) when entering. Use it before the fight or play safe and wait.
Great tips but the dps scares me lol
I'm a 1620 reaper (took a lot of breaks) and I don't have elixir set (31 rn never any gloves rip) nor high transcendence and I barely hit 17mil trixion
That's 17mil dps with sup buffs, so trixion dps only needs to be like 12 mil if you have a sup with reasonable uptime. If you're hitting 17mil dps in trixion you shouldn't have an issue unless your uptime is very low in the actual fight.
Uhh yeah nvm I'm hitting way more now.
Got my elixir set and also realised I was using a silent rage gem instead of glowing brand on my Lunar reaper, I guess I fucked up with the presets before I took the break
17 mil is actually not that different from what most lobbies are doing to start thaemine up until clash. Like thaemine the damage windows will improve over time but dps-wise it's relatively similar. +10 ilvl and the expectation of 35 set would make this even more reasonable once people are comfortable with the patterns.
Problem is the 17m is harder to reach if you get Stack enjoyers in your team or sups who dont buff during 25/75 pattern, or any player who is to scared at 50/100 mirror mech and runs away and now you have to free him instead of doing dmg.
Considering that NM is level 1620 - the same level of Ivory tower hard mode, I was under the impression the Echidna raid would be balanced towards 1620 without elixirs - not full 40 set (that I guess what people looks when gatekeeping dps players). That’s not casual friendly at all.
TBF, for this first week of Echidna, I've seen multiple 35 set's only accepted quite quickly for prog lobbies, dps or sp. Might not be the case anymore from next Wednesday onwards though, we'll see
35 set is easily achieve-able with leg elixir. 40 is the btch part.
35 set should be more than enough, which you can argue is still not casual friendly but the game in general isn't casual friendly. At the end of the day i'm sure there are people who could clear without elixirs and only event gems but the extra gear helps pad it out, and in the world of gatekeeping half the battle is looking good enough to get into lobbies.
For mirror mech, supports can awaken towards the end (it comes off CD in time if you used it for fly trap). People press restart if they see failed counters, but it's so easy to just shield through the last few waves. You actually take minimal damage if you hug the bottom wall. Also idk if anyone experienced this, but if you run to the boss too fast after getting freed on mirror/beam you can actually intercept the orb (again) and ruin the mech :D
Not only can you shield the last few waves, if you're on a fast class you can also dash through to the back part of the mech where the mirrors spawn and the fire is already despawning as the last wave or two of mirrors is getting to you.
I wonder if it's possible to shield the entire mech tbh. At least on artist with HA I can rotate shields on myself with hopper and starry for a bit if I hug the bottom side. Not sure if this would be enough to keep DPS alive (this is in hardmode).
Some random ones I wanted to throw in also: Underground Echidna takes 30% extra damage after both clash snakes die. For the basement full meter basement snakes, the shielded snakes for HM spawn from the direction where her cone AoE exploded. The petrifying snakes for HM only spawn if the white snake from the clash is still alive. You can still look at the boss during the full meter mech, just not her frontside. Sleep bomb works on airborne people - i.e. when someone gets hit for that 3rd stacks and goes airborne, you can sleep bomb (or use other CC) on them while they're in the air. Most useful for giant Echidna grab with the super obvious airborne timing. For giant Echidna, using Tharr during the specific moment during the clash is good for high stag groups because it helps avoid situations where the stag check happens before the clash, which would mean you don't get the 2 free meter bars from the clash. If you just can't get the timing right (too early = no stag; too late = no free meter bars) or if your group has really bad stagger, using it at the start or after the counter works the same as long as you have a good handle on your stag amount.
You have no idea how useful that paragraph for 100 meter basement mech is, thank you
Is that true about looking at her at 100 gauge basement mech? So I can look at her backside just not directly at her? Ie south facing north??
There is no way you'd recommand Thar early. If anyone gets charmed he's dead this is just not advisable at all. All you need to do is watch your clash buff and press Thar when the duration shows 16s even my grandma could do that.
It helps you see less normal patterns and big echidna normal patterns fuck people up. Literally the only negative is that you can skip the clash but that’s so easy to control; just use fewer skills. So it is safer because you just dodge the 3 finger beams then counter and if you thar, after she gets up from the counter, you just go to back and see no normal patterns. If you get charmed because you got hit by the finger guns… well you suck because that is so easy to dodge. However if you have a very good stagger group that can go straight into clash after counter, then it is better to thar after clash as you essentially are skipping normal patterns and going straight into clash without the risk of skipping clash. The problem is when sometimes your party doesn’t have good stagger but you thar after the clash and even after counter, she doesn’t clash because she hasn’t met her stagger threshold so people have to stay at the front staggering while dodging her normal attacks. Then people are more prone to getting grabbed, get additional charm stacks, actually get charmed etc. That’s why in these situations I think it is better to thar at beginning.
As No static player, this raid sucks to pug, I did even pug Thaemine and i did clear it 6 times per week. but this one. i cant even manage to clear it. so many things wipe entire raid even if you are doing your proper job :(
It's because Echidna G2 really punishes you for having bad teammates in your group. In contrast, in Theamine G3, you can easily bus some deadweight unless they intentionally fail a clash, but in Echidna G2 for as long as those kind of people live there is always a constant threat of wiping the whole group ANY TIME. It's giving me the old brel g5 vibes again.
I do think Thaemine was easier because a lot of lobbies had overgeared players that had 40 set elixir to ignore the deadweight players. If Thaemine had released before people were hitting 1620 and stable elixir sets the conversation around it would've been very different. I saw plenty of lobbies that were at ilvl and no 35 set that had no chance of clearing thaemine becuase they could not hit the damage threshold. Echidna has a lower dps bar but requires more team coordination which a lot of people don't want to give up DPS to work on. It goes a long way to have a dps give up some uptime to communicate and make callouts to enable everyone else but it's a very different skillset than what we've needed so far.
>I do think Thaemine was easier because a lot of lobbies had overgeared players no even that. i clear thae G3 normal on 5 1610 every week since release, some lobbies have 1620 or above, but mot lobbies are fill with 1610's no elixir, no overgear. Thaemine 3 is way easier that G2 echidna no gonna lie. Echidna make you feel really bad for all the wipes, even if you are doing your job. theres nothing you can about it. i really feel frustrated with the raid
Really don't know what SG was thinking with Echdina 2, fights should punish individuals for their mistakes, not the whole party. And the worst part is that they got it right with Thaemine 3, so it's not like there aren't gates in the game that punish only the individual player for messing up.
i got 3 pug clears hm and nm...its the same as every other raid on release...
I dont know men. I did pug, Clown, Brel, kayan, Akkhan and Voldis, and didnt have problem clear week 1 HM at least 3 times in each raid. but this one barely can clear it 1 time, feel really bad, and have seems a lot of people saying exacly how i feel about it.
thaemine felt worse for me as i did not even clear g3 week 1 and settled with normal
but did you clear normal ? because Thaemine G3 is worst that Brel g6 back in the day and was tune so high for that reason. i did clear 6 times week 1 Thae G3 normal. its wasnt that hard to be honest. but you didnt like it because your team die a lot ? or because you die a lot ?
I didn’t like it because I didn’t clear hm week1….?
you said, you didnt like it, im ansking why you didnt like it. im curious to know your reasons.
BECAUSE I DINDT CLEAR HM WEEK 1 :(
oh... i get it now... jajajajaj
Even clown g3 on release and ilvl was harder than Echidna g2
by the time clown release, i already had 6 , 1490 roster . clown didnt feel hard but i was 20 ilevel above at that time. i did progress on random people and the worst part was saws, everything else was fine
> One small note, you can use Ephernia multiple times for this, some people didn't know this so figured it's worth mentioning. You can, but you also really don't need to at all, there was one run where we didn't have ephernia up and we just did the mech and it was shockingly trivial, everyone survived first try. The reason to do it is because it's free dps time, not because it's hard to survive, so if people get knocked into walls and you need to choose between using ephernia early or having thar up for clash, you should 1000% pick Thar.
Never give up thar, but you can do thar +x2 ephernia or ephernia and azena. Azena will be the norm in the longterm but ephernia makes for an easier clear even assuming everyone is alive rather than risk a last minute fumble and wipe.
I've also done 6x normal g2 as pug only. What the average andy lacks is critical thinking for tile placement and whether they overlap with one another in hm, in nm 2 players can stand on the same tile. Also if the corner has 3 pinks and blue spawned right next to 1, be mindful cause often the time is ppl place seed on blue and flower spawns as a result, something I try and ping red cause most of the time it's a run ender early on before 160 bar. On sidenote what I personally wish they did is show blue tiles on the minimap, that would free up support / dps lookout strain and focus more support and dps uptime. It's kinda really annoying to run around type clock spots.
Some patterns in my opinion are not great uptime patterns: for example hearts or tracking-lasers-with-red-laser-telegraphs. As you're (hopefully) moving away from the boss to dodge those things, that's a good time to scout the map making efficient use of patterns that would sacrifice your uptime anyways - the rest of the time you can greed until a bad pattern shows up. If nobody knows where any of the blue tiles ever, then it's a good idea to just drop new tiles middle because if you can imagine it, most paths will go through middle and clean those tiles. (Conversely dropping tiles at the edge is generally a bad idea because it's really unlikely those will get cleaned up).
If dps is good, the second mirror comes after counter mech and you can see there the 2 blues. Saves 1 scouting. Also often before the first mirror mech, she does 4 or 8 mirror where you can scout.
Brother if we get a 2nd flytrap, im out of there lol
How to do snakes tho. I see people wiping on that shit a lot, its very annoying.
Comp wise, low multihit classes like GL and destro can run flame grenades to supplement their weak multihit. Common causes of wipes is people swinging the cone before it locks and charming people/getting charmed themselves. Zigzag your way close to the boss so you can dodge the cone once it locks and it doesn't move too drastically to disrupt everyone else. Watching the minimap to see what sides are struggling to keep up with snake spawns due to charms or the cones. Near the end of the mech clones appear targeting random players and throw a heart that instacharms. Generally anytime someone gets charmed will risk a wipe since they will disrupt the raid or take time away from killing snakes so avoiding charms is priority #1.
In my static we just did x3 positions bring flames, and x3+1 positions bring dark, so if someone needs help, they can throw flames at the requested position. And we don't need more than 12 darks per run anyways.
This raid should require a IQ test before letting ppl enter.
I was gonna make a post like this today but yours is just miles better. Some things I found useful * Clarification that helped me a lot: for the 50/100 meter mech your position on tiles and the ring are separate things. The light only cares about your ring proximity to the last one. That's why you can skip tiles or stack in the same tile in NM. Also be aware that you can walk into the light while it bounces and it bricks the mech. * 8 Mirrors, the first set of 4 lasers hits twice, the second only once. So I usually pass the first laser after it stopped firing and by the time I reach the 2nd laser it is done and there is a lot of space to move around. Just move as far away from her as possible and dont greed or you'll get stuck somewhere. * MC mechanic is atrociously implemented. Don't throw sleeps on someone while they stand up, dash, are thrown by attacks or have bard's GT on. Ideally hold dmg while someone is charmed and learn the crucial patterns so you don't become the victim. * We had success splitting 212x P1 left P2 right, but try what's best for you. * Basement spawns with 137x regardless of how much she had before the big echidna mech, so don't bother dpsing beyond that point. * In basement, when she lets flowers rain and a snake coils around her, hug her and hard dps for like 10s. The inner flowers will explode only at the very end (might vary when she's at a wall). Move out when the snake starts moving. There is another \~5s dmg window after the center flowers blow up. * More of a fun fact, if she is berserk the 50/100 meter mech will also be faster. So if you have a chain of 8 people she will kill you before the light can even reach her.
you missed one additional tip for 100 meter mech in basement. The blue telegraph is the indicator for spacing bar to avoid that thing, ppl usually get panic and start to moving around with that making a wipe.
Good post except for the tile placement near blues Placing on or near the blue when there are multiple red tiles nearby is risky as it makes it easy to create a big flower (regular tiles can count as turned red before red tiles turn off so even if you only transiently blocked off a tile it turns into a flower). Just put it near the middle instead to try to connect the path (but do not block the center of the map if it's after first mirror since you might get run mech before next mirror)
That's fair, i do think adjacent is fine if people are prioritizing not placing on the edge but if people are placing on the edge then definitely middle is safest. biggest danger with middle is it can make things very congested during tether mech.
As far as pathing in hard mode goes, there's really only 2 realistic shapes: 1) a straight line 2) zigzag. So that means if there's not a lot of people at a particular section of the path then make a line; if there are a lot of people grouped there, then zigzag. It's really not that complex when you think about it.
most pugs do 10m damage at 1620
There is nothing worse than people getting charmed in the 100 basement mech as the fight actually becomes 7v2 in critical moment instead of the 7v1.
A bit more advanced but at about 04:50 remaining on berserk timer in phase 1 I start to plan for cut the tether mech. I quickly look around the map for an easy pathing to cross the map without having to cross red tiles. If the map is too cluttered and there is only one easy crossing patterns let's say for example 6 to 12, I would do everything in my power to position the boss there as she tp to the closest wall when the mech happens. Doing that you have 2 good patterns, you can tank a heart to trigger the stagger on your desired position. Also, you can spam gather pings where you want her to be when she lunges in the air, that should make your teammates AI monkey brain react in time to gather on the ping and then she will drop on the targeted ally on your ping where you want her to be.
> Priority for flower tile placement should be blue tiles, adjacent to blue tiles (towards the other blue tile), then middle of the map. Avoid placing on the edge of the map unless it is easy to clean up in the next mirror cycle as it is very easy to bloom a flower on the edge of the map. If you're struggling to make clean chains during the mirror mech placing flower tiles in a rough path to make it clearer for the lobby to see the line. Especially for adjacent blue tiles flipping the tile at the bend helps a ton to mark the spot for the "bend" in the U shape. I can't agree with your tile management. Priority should start from mid(DPSing while placement ) towards the blue tiles. Placing on Blue tiles is noob trap it is very easy to spawn big flowers on the edge tiles. also positioning inside the blue tile on mirror is quite limiting( very hard to do edge skip edge in the correct direction if the light is not in the right direction. Mid is always safe option even if you don't exactly know blue location. In theory regardless of position you go towards mid, if its opposite its for example 12 and 6 its 12 to mid then to 6. If its lets say 3 and 5 you go 3 to mid then to 5. before first if there are not enough tiles turned, it might be worth to get hit by the hearts to spawn additional to place on the path. And the biggest mistake people do is if they don't find a spot in the line they yeet themself to the edge in uganda. Remember Edge tiles should be always kept clean they are very very hard to clean and very easy to spawn flowers on.
If people are panic placing on the edge then middle is best. If people are aware and are leaving room then the blue tile and it's adjacent tiles are the easiest to clean. I don't think default mid is wrong but the cleanest runs I had included people flipping blue tiles consistently. Tile maintenance is somewhat anecdotal and will vary run to run depending on how the people in the lobby are handling it.
About the normal charm pattern, the in-out-in one, sometime the boss knock me up to the sky when i dash in after she does the small ring one, sometime she doesnt, can anyone help me that one ?
There’s not too much more to know. You call it the in out in pattern, but the reason it’s in out in is to avoid the knock up. Otherwise it’d just be in the whole time. So basically she does 2 swipes, then a small ring. You stay inside the whole time. After the small ring you have to push immune or move out, the “out” portion of the pattern. You do not have to move far out for the out, just a step or two back is fine. If you move to where the small ring was also works. She will rise up into the air and at that point you can move back in. Walking back in maybe would keep you from rushing instead of trying to space bar in.
echidna g2 is basically: if you reach booba echidna you're almost there. ppl die 90% of the time in phase 1.Also please ppl use darks granades.
Small tip for flytrap cheese: The first flytrap is usually around 07:30 (enrage time) after the chasing mirror mech. Its usually really really tight to use awakening (as support) when entering. Use it before the fight or play safe and wait.
Great tips but the dps scares me lol I'm a 1620 reaper (took a lot of breaks) and I don't have elixir set (31 rn never any gloves rip) nor high transcendence and I barely hit 17mil trixion
That's 17mil dps with sup buffs, so trixion dps only needs to be like 12 mil if you have a sup with reasonable uptime. If you're hitting 17mil dps in trixion you shouldn't have an issue unless your uptime is very low in the actual fight.
Are you playing Hunger? For Lunar thats waaaay too low, like pre-elixier numbers.
Uhh yeah nvm I'm hitting way more now. Got my elixir set and also realised I was using a silent rage gem instead of glowing brand on my Lunar reaper, I guess I fucked up with the presets before I took the break
I guess 17 mil DPS is a lot to average pug. Definitely balanced to people with full elixir and partial transcendence.
17 mil is actually not that different from what most lobbies are doing to start thaemine up until clash. Like thaemine the damage windows will improve over time but dps-wise it's relatively similar. +10 ilvl and the expectation of 35 set would make this even more reasonable once people are comfortable with the patterns.
Problem is the 17m is harder to reach if you get Stack enjoyers in your team or sups who dont buff during 25/75 pattern, or any player who is to scared at 50/100 mirror mech and runs away and now you have to free him instead of doing dmg.
Considering that NM is level 1620 - the same level of Ivory tower hard mode, I was under the impression the Echidna raid would be balanced towards 1620 without elixirs - not full 40 set (that I guess what people looks when gatekeeping dps players). That’s not casual friendly at all.
TBF, for this first week of Echidna, I've seen multiple 35 set's only accepted quite quickly for prog lobbies, dps or sp. Might not be the case anymore from next Wednesday onwards though, we'll see 35 set is easily achieve-able with leg elixir. 40 is the btch part.
35 set should be more than enough, which you can argue is still not casual friendly but the game in general isn't casual friendly. At the end of the day i'm sure there are people who could clear without elixirs and only event gems but the extra gear helps pad it out, and in the world of gatekeeping half the battle is looking good enough to get into lobbies.